What It REALLY Takes to Develop a Neighborhood (Land, Zoning & Big Money)

What does it take to design a home you'll never have to leave? In this episode of Voices of Real Estate, host Jamie Jorge sits down with Will Dozier, Director of Land Development and Commercial Real Estate at Blanchard & Calhoun, to talk about Cedar Vale — a brand-new active adult community coming to Bartram Trail in Evans, Georgia.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey there, it's Jamie George, the marketing director for Blanchard Calhoun for another episode of Voices of Real Estate. Today I've got Will Dozier, who is our director of land development and commercial real estate with us. How are you, Will?

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Good. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Good. I'm glad to have you on. For those of you listening, today we are going to talk a little bit about just what Will does, um, what he does, what his day-to-day kind of looks like, and then just some exciting projects that we've got going on. So are you ready to talk to us about that?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Yeah, absolutely. Um I I I would say my job is a hat rack.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yeah, you want to elaborate a little bit on that?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I wear a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Uh first and foremost is the commercial brokerage side, uh, where we have agents in the office who are managing uh the sell and buy side, commercial assets. Uh we have property management where we're managing uh multi-tenant assets or single tenant assets. Um and then we venture a little bit into the apartment side, multifamily side on the commercial brokerage side. And then there's land development. Um and historically, mostly we we have been in residential single-family development. Um we have uh started up a uh kind of an owner's representation slash construction management side to that, where we have clients um who have spaces who would like to develop them out. And they're more hands-off or passive investors. So we provide a service where we will go in and uh review their property, do an assessment, broker's opinion for lease comps, and we'll do uh we'll bring in an architectural firm and kind of conceptually lay it out, start doing some pricing and try to towel that in. And uh we've been pretty successful here lately. We uh just landed a big project coming hopefully first quarter of 27. Okay. Uh 3069 Washington Road. It's the old Born Toyota uh dealership, classic collisions behind it. It's going to be an inline shopping center class A project with six suites. We're hoping to bring in uh two nice restaurants and some retail. Okay. So that's pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, that's really exciting. And we did we did kind of like a video on that previously to just kind of launch it out. And I know that had a lot of a lot of chatter behind it, so that's really good. So are we still looking for tenants?

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yes, we um we're not heavy in marketing uh to tenants yet. We're trying to finalize our pricing. Uh kind of the way we've gone about that is bringing in the architect and the general contractor uh before we apply for permit or before we get to 100% drawings. Um and and we do that for a lot of reasons. We want to get all the the kinks out of the drawings. Uh so once we get to permit, the the building is ready to go, we know how we want it, and we can fast track it to completion. So once we finish that process and we're right at permit, then we'll we'll start to really push hard uh push hard. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

So going back to like the services part of things, when you say that you guys offer the services to basically help this, a passive owner or whatever, take their property and turn it into something else. Are we talking from like raw land all the way up to a brick and mortar? Or are we talking something that they already own and then they want to convert it to something else? Can you elaborate?

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Yeah, all the above. So we we can start with a uh uh a blank site and uh go all the horizontal and vertical construction ground up, or we can go into uh the building like we're in now, which was an old dealership. Uh it was the showroom, matter of fact, and do a renovation.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Which looks great so far. I mean, they've really made a lot of movement on that.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

There's actually a lot going on uh with demolition, um doing a little bit of uh mechanical and electrical work, what the county will allow or the city will allow us to do uh in preparation for the permit itself.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And I mean, realistically, this is probably the first retail space on Washington Road that's gonna be like converted or considered a new retail space, right? In a long time.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Uh a very long time. I would I would say I don't recall when the uh what was it uh fresh market was developed. I don't remember when they developed that shopping center.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

That was a long time.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

But now it's fresh take now. So that's probably the the last big redevelopment on Washington Road, which was a couple years ago. But in terms of a shopping center itself, um long time.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

A long time, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

It's it's it's uh it's time. That section of I-20, that northern section of I-20, that's it's everything's kind of growing out that direction towards Columbia County. So we we thought it was, and the owner too was going to be a great uh a great spot for an inline retail shopping center.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, I'm super excited. I know um when I had Judd on the video, he was talking about like a barbecue spot coming in.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Judd's got a lot of good ideas and uh and and we do have soft interests in it. Um we're just not wanting to get to a a contractual state just yet.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, so we talked a little bit about the commercial side of things. Obviously, that's just one like facet of what what we have going on, but what about on the residential development side?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Ah, residential developments um is pretty busy as well. We've uh been in uh I would say kind of a research research state on a new project called Cedarvale for about four years. Wow. And uh Cedarvale is uh it's gonna be in Bartram Trail. It's 41 lots, and it's gonna be marketed towards active adults. And uh we took a lot of time to think about that demographic. What does that demographic want? It's not just just a house. Um what are their needs? Uh what's their you know, what is their financial position at that stage in life is in terms of the kids are out of the house more than likely. They're probably graduated college, so they're they're kind of back to square one uh with being an empty nester. Um they want to travel, move about the earth, low maintenance at home. Low maintenance. So we we kind of wrapped all that into uh a community that is maintenance free. Uh the homes are gonna be 2,000, 2200 square feet, maybe a little under 2,000. Um on the interior though, we we we thought about you know, more than likely that that person in that stage of life is going to probably not buy another house. So this is their last home. Um, and you know, trying to think through what would you want in your last home? So one, you want to downsize, but you want to carry all the luxuries from your older, bigger home. So all the nice finishes, the hardwoods, the custom cabinets, um, the all all the specialty countertops, trims. Um, so we brought that into it, but then we were thinking, all right, well, what about the golden years? And that's when we kind of we got outside the box a little bit and started working with um oh they're uh not occupational therapists, but uh I can't I can't think of a term now, but we got out speaking with some in-home care consultants. There we go, thank you. Um and just talking about how you know what they deal with when they're going in home with seniors and what are some of the issues that they have trying to traverse their own homes. Traditional homes that they didn't sell, they're still living in. Some of them are from the 60s, and uh, or or even if they're newer, uh, what are those issues of traversing around those those homes? And one of the biggest comments that came back was the size of doors. Doors into the master bedroom, doors into closets, doors in the bathroom, water closets, all that. So we we kind of gave them a uh a questionnaire list of all right, well, how would you change this? What would you do different? And what come back was was a focus on 3-0 doors, just like the front entry of a home is usually 3-0, where your master bedroom and your master bathroom, really all the bedrooms in the home are usually 2-6.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Okay, so 3-0 wider.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Wider, taller? It's it's wider, it can be taller, but it's really about the width. And the width matters with wheelchairs, right? Walkers, hospital beds, or hospital beds. Correct. And so we've planned all these homes to have 3-0 entry into the master bedrooms as well, into the master baths, um, the water closets are um we use the term ADA compliant, but I don't want to come off as thinking that this is gonna be a hospital room.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

You know, it's gonna look like a hospital with grab bars and railings and and tubes hanging out of the ceilings because it's nothing like that. But the spatial design is there for wheelchairs at a later date.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Okay, so let's let's back up a little bit. So when you say active at adult, right? I consider myself an active adult. But when you say active adult, you're thinking someone who is in the years of their life where their kids are out of the house. Um, they're looking to buy their last home, have low maintenance, but also have somewhere to come home to.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Um, it's luxury at home just on a smaller scale. They're in a little bit of a community, but they're gonna stay there probably one story, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Yeah, they're they're one story for the most part. Some of them are one and a half stories.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Because again, active adults are not, they're active, right? So they still want to climb the stairs, but the main function of the house is on the main level.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Okay. And so then from there, they would take the current house that they live in and ideally transition it if they needed to add grab bars or anything like that. It's it's already set up to do it, even though it may not be there.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Correct. So, yeah, one other one other qu one other feature in that is is the blocking in the walls. So we'll have additional blocking behind the sheet rock going down the hallways, in the master bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Um, in the uh master bathroom as well. Uh blocking, oftentimes builders are are when they put blocking in the walls, it's usually a two before. And it's just stuck in between the studs.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

But what we're going to look at doing is putting in full sheathing uh across those areas. So when you're trying to anchor anything into that wall, if some people's they're trying to find a stud that's two inches wide, so they're punching holes in the wall till they find it, or they're with a tape measure measuring from a jam all the way out to wherever they go. It never works. Um so with this, the anchoring can be anywhere from four to five foot tall in the wall. So wherever you hit in that wall, there's gonna be wood anchoring there ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Great. Yeah, so you're not sitting there knocking, knocking on on the wall, trying to find the correct.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

And and also that there's sufficient um stability in that wall for anything that might need to be heavier.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Mm-hmm. Okay. So ideally, what what does that client profile look like? Obviously, we talked about the like the kids maybe being out, kind of like entry level.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Well, I I think the demographic's gonna probably on average be more 60 to 65.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Probably. Active adult communities. And those are out there, and they're usually age restricted. So we shouldn't confuse that, and that's why we we talk more about active adult instead of 55, because everybody wants to uh they they want to almost make that akin to age restricted. So this is not age restricted. Um that gets complicated. Uh it's just it's just active adult.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

And everything in the home is gonna be designed at a point and price point where we we really don't think younger families will move in to those homes. Um, so it's it's just easier with active adult.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Okay. So when do we anticipate um that you know we'll have some product on the ground?

SPEAKER_03 14:12

We are in construction now and we're thinking Q1 to be finished of 27 and going vertical, probably Q2 of 27. Um and I'd say finished product, easily Q4, Q3 of 27.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

That's like right around the corner.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yes. I mean I can't wait. I know I've been working on this four or five years now.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

It it's gonna be kind of cool to to see it kind of come to life. But you know, what tell me, are are they gonna be single family detached?

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Single family detached. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yep. So, and it's gonna be, I know, you know, we developed obviously Bartram.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So it's gonna be kind of cool to have another product in there.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

It is, and this is the last phase of Bartram Trail. Um and and the cool thing about Bartram Trail, and it worked out so well to get this parcel. This parcel was originally um zoned to be uh assisted living. Okay, and a lot of the large Ps that were uh designed and thought of in the early 2000s, and this went on everywhere, there were a lot of large Ps that were five to eight hundred units, and they would have commercial on the front, they'd have a daycare center somewhere, and they would have an assisted living facility uh zoned into the PU. And what we found is the majority of the assisted living facilities did not work, and we just didn't think through uh where those really needed to be, which were closer in to hospitals, more in an urban environment. Um, so it it was an easy transition to say, all right, we don't really want assisted living here, but active adult is exactly what you want here. So it worked out.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Do you anticipate that some of the owners that are currently in Bartram might shift over to this product versus 100%?

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah. It might, it might, it very well could be a 100% Bartram Trail transition.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

We've we've uh we've we've had some soft, I should we had some soft marketing, not not reservation, um, but there were so many people calling our sales office that I told the site agents um because they were wanting a reservation list, and I was like, I don't want to do that. It was too early, way too early.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

I said, but talk to them and let's just start getting some names and numbers and tell them once we're closer, we'll get back to them. And the list just started growing.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And growing.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

And growing and growing. And I think we finally just kind of stopped it at like 35 people on that list. And I would say probably 80% are Bartram.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Okay. So 35 names on the list so far.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right?

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Not reserved.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Not reserved. Not reserved. People who are interested in interested.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

We will reach out when we open up marketing.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

How many units do we think we're we'll have on the we have 41. All right, so 41 units, um, one to one and a half floors.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Mm-hmm. Some one story, but there are a few one and a half.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

And uh there's probably five or six plans.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Square footage wise again?

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Uh I'd say on average 2100.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

But there's some that are coming in under that. Uh, and there will be some like the one and a half, that'll probably reach up to 22.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

So what are they like? Two twos, three twos?

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Uh two twos, three twos.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Okay. And then are there any amenities that Bartram Trail. Outside of Bartram. So I mean any Cedar.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

There's no there's no specific amenities in Cedarville itself. Uh, we are building a a little dog park.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Um, and then you'll have access to the uh Columbia County uh I forget what they call it now. Greenway.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

I think it's the Greenway. Is that North Augusta?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Greenway's North Augusta. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Same thing though.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Right. On the on the Columbia County because I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yes, the Columbia County. They have they have miles and miles and miles of trail, and Bartram Trail um actually merged about five miles of their trails in with the county's plan for trails. So they'll have direct access to the asphalt walking trails, and then of course the golf course. Right. Which again is why Bartram Trail was such a great location. And I would I would probably be willing to bet that a majority of uh these uh these folks that are interested are golfers.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Okay. Well, I mean, it's such a great neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

It's a great neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Um, so we've talked about size. What about price point? Do we have a range?

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Um they're probably they're probably gonna be 500 just below 500 starting out.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

High fours. High fours, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Probably some uh options to upgrade and do things. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

They will they'll have several different trim packages. Um we're not we're not going to um vary on customizing the layouts. We're gonna kind of stick to our plans. We spent a lot of time developing those plans, um, but there will definitely be multiple trim packages, and there's also going to be some bathroom packages for someone who does come in that's already in that position where they're in the golden years and they do need some in-home care. We have had people who have reached out who have parents up north. Yeah, they want to move them down and they're looking at this product and saying that is perfect. They can move in, they feel uh very at ease with the way the house is laid out and the ability to have the protection set up for when they're walking around the home, not falling. Um that's that's actually one of the number one uh one of the how do I put this stat? It that's like one of the main occurrences with older people in their existing um designed homes. Yeah. Is falling.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

And once you fall, you break your hip. It's usually not good from there.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

That's the scariest thing for the older generation living in their home. And they do want to live in their home. They want to be they their freedom.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Uh so that is uh that's their number one fear is falling.

unknown 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I mean, I know, you know, when my my parents were living alone. I mean, my mom had an instance where she fell. Actually, a couple, and yeah, it I mean, it's one of the scariest things to get that call.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

It is. And then once they fall, you know, trying to uh heal them back up is is is a long road as well. And uh which again, the house is set up for that too, but you know, you you you just don't want that for your loved ones.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

So for people who might be interested in the product, I mean obviously I know we've got this list that's not a list. Um, and then people are as they hear more about Cedar Vale, um obviously this is a Blanchard and Calhoun product.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Blanche and Calhoun product, yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

How can, you know, how can they get more information? Um, when it is ready to come out. Like what would you suggest people who might be interested do?

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Well, I I think first of all, uh when we when we do get ready to release it, I think Jamie's gonna do an excellent job of getting it on social media. Yeah. And everybody and their and their friends are gonna know where it's at and how to get in touch with us. But if you have if you have interest now, just reach out to uh Lantern Calhoun and just ask for Will Doja.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Be happy to talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

You heard that here. You can call Will, he'll answer all of your questions about our upcoming development. Um, is there anything else you want them to know about Cedarvale and or what we do?

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Uh for as Cedarvale is once we release the the uh once we open it up for uh contracts, I would not wouldn't waste any time.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Don't wait.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Don't wait.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Don't wait.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

It's gonna go fast.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I yes, based on what I've seen already, and obviously we've had you know other other people in our market kind of already talking about about Cedar Vale. Um and so you know, we wanted to make sure everyone heard from from us first, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:22

We've got a few more projects coming out. Uh we've got we got a project getting ready to start up in Grovetown, and uh we have some infield projects uh that we're we're uh not talking about just yet, but we have a little tight-lipped about it, right? Still tight-lipped, but we have some infield projects coming to Augusta.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

And uh we have some things over across the river we're looking at. Well, and I think a lot going on in the development department.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

And I think that's something like maybe the audience in general doesn't necessarily understand that developments, it's not like okay, I'm gonna decide that we're gonna do this, and bam, the next month it's on it's on the market. You know, take us maybe talk a little bit about um the development process to give everyone kind of a better understanding of why Cedar Vale has taken four years to come on board.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah, and the development process today is so different than even five years ago. Sure. Much less 10 years ago. Uh today you've got to be really conscious of your your end product and what the market is wanting, who that demographic is. Like today, our demographic is is really different. You know, we used to have 10, 15, 20 years ago we we had five levels of buyers. And uh today we've probably got two, maybe three. Yeah. And the uh those two are you would say your your first-time home buyer, but they look different.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Well, they're not they're not who they're not 20s anymore. They're your first-time homebuyer average age is like 40.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

It's 40 years old.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Right.

unknown 25:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

It's very different.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

It's very different. And uh uh they're married. Um, and so a married couple at 40 is wanting something different than the 25-year-old from 20 years ago, right? Uh what they wanted. So you've really got to be conscious about that. And then you got the boomers, and the boomers are wanting, oddly enough, kind of the same thing that the uh those first-time home buyers are wanting, and kind of in the same location. So that's an interesting mix. But back to your back to your question, it's you've you've got to understand that um geographically, you've got to look at where's the opportunity. Then you've got to find the land. Uh, you you've got to negotiate that out with the landowner. Um, and that's a process in itself. Uh, and then once you can control that, it's entitlement. And the entitlement process today is um it's very long and drawn out what you have to provide for municipalities. So today we I mean we pretty much have to have the entire project not necessarily designed, but it has to be thought out.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Well, and also tell us a little bit about what entitlement means.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

So in entitlement is zoning, and in in zoning, there's depending on the municipality, there's a lot of different uh variations of that zoning where it could be uh multifamily attached like townhomes uh or detached single family, and then you can have uh a high density multifamily zoning or a high density uh single family detached zoning where and and what that what that is is uh one units to the acre, two units to the acre, three units to the acre is is what kind of the densities we're looking at. And and in today's environment, most municipalities are looking at two units per acre.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

So not people just thinking it's it's as simple as saying, oh well this is gonna be zone residential and that's gonna be zone commercial.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

And it it it right, and or a lot oftentimes too, the the general public who are or Mr. and Mrs. Landowner are are thinking that they can come in and develop all these houses. Sure. And their their land is is just gonna be X. And it's just not the case. Uh we've we've turned down, I'd say in the last two years, at least seven projects just because they don't work. And it's uh it's it's either a land value issue or a zoning issue. Uh, or in in the middle of that is is the construction side of it, building the roads, which is another factor that we have to play in, is all the regulation and and building the roads, the environmental concerns, um, all that ties in together, and you've got to have all of that to line up before you can close the property. Um, and if you can get all that to line up, right, and you can close the the property, uh, then you have to go into the design part of it. And that's a whole nother level of complicated uh is completing your your civil engineering and then actually building um the first phase of the project or the whole project, depending on how big it is. So you you could easily spend over a year just in the land negotiations and the entitlement.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

And that's assuming everything like goes according to plan.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Correct. And it's probably it's it it's probably a year and a half if you put the negotiation factor in with uh the landowner.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

If you're having to to to educate them, if you're able to educate them. Sometimes you are, sometimes you're not. Um so yeah, uh it's easily a year and a half. Um and you could be looking at anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000, $70,000 in due diligence alone. Alone, and you might not get the zoning.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

So that's that's another thing that you have to be um cognitive of is whether you're wanting to spend that money on a possible opportunity of being turned down for your zoning.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Well, and then to invest that time a year, a year and a half, and then at the tail end of that, kind of go, Oh, well, that's not gonna work. So then you're back to the drawing board, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

When you start over. So I mean, so for someone like you who has to go through this every day, um, I mean, how many peop parcels of land do you look at a year on average?

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Oh, wow, that's a good question. Um I've turned well in the last two years, I've turned down five or six, so I've probably looked at at least ten.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Right. And that that's not just like, oh, okay, yeah, this looks like a good piece of land. It's you having to go go look at it, you know, and actually research the property and kind of go through the different various steps and everything.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Yeah, so if when a parcel of land hits my desk, the first thing I'm looking at is in is zoning. What's it zoned at? Where are the utilities at? What's the topography look like? Is there wetlands on the property? Um, and if and what is the owner wanting for the property. Right. Um, if that all kind of feels right, and uh we'll we'll push into some pencil conceptual designs that I will do and just kind of see what the the density is based on what our uh feeling of what the uh municipality will kind of give us in that area. And if if all that lines up, then we'll start negotiating with the landowner um based on whatever their offering price is.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

And sometimes that doesn't line up.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

I'll I'll pencil it out and their price, you know, they're they're at X, and I'm like, we can't do X, and then we walk away. Um we we try not to negotiate what whatever their price is, we accept that's your price. Right. Um, and and we'll just say we we can't we can't go any further. Um sometimes they come back and they they're willing to negotiate. Uh oftentimes, you know, that's that's what they want.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

And so if we've got, you know, some people in our audience who own some land that they think might be able to be developed, you know, do you take these proposals or if somebody just calls and says, hey, well, you know, I own X amount of acres, I think it would be great for XYZ. I mean, are you open to having those conversations with Oh yeah, that's what I do.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Right. Do it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Um I matter of fact, I had a uh I had a doctor who called me up. Unfortunately, we we um we ended up having to terminate the deal, but the the doctor had uh some land that he he felt like it was um a parcel of land that could be developed. It was in a good area, and I agreed with him. And we had, I I told him, I said, well, we need to go through this due diligence. And uh we got we got pretty deep into the due diligence and then we ran into some soil issues. And uh from there we kind of mapped out what would have to occur and where that would put us when we were ready to uh sell those lots to builders, and then where's the builder gonna be and his final price to the consumer, and we felt like that the market wouldn't support it, wouldn't support it, so we we had to terminate it.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

So I do that often.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, and I mean obviously, like you said, you're in your due diligence period, you don't necessarily know what's coming until it gets there.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Correct. And yeah, I mean you're having to hire consultants. Right. There's some of it, I'd say probably 60% of it that I'm able to do myself from just experience, and there's probably 40% that's uh a consultant's needed, whether it's a uh a civil engineer to uh do surveys or a uh testing firm to come out and uh do a phase one or phase two um testing uh or delineating the uh the wetlands themselves to find out where where exactly those wetlands are on the property and uh if it's in a floodplain or not in a floodplain.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Right. Well, I mean, I think that's great that you kind of went into all of that because I don't think a lot of people necessarily know what goes into developing an actual like neighborhood and then putting a product, especially like a new product, on the ground. Because um something like Cedar Vale, I mean, is there anything like that in our market right now?

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Um there's some versions of it here and there. I don't think there's anything to the extent of what we've done with this with uh the spatial design. Um but there are there are some uh some pocket communities around Aiken. Sure, yeah, especially that that have that type of uh community, but I think it's more or less a community where you've got smaller homes, easier maintenance. I don't think I don't think there's been a focus on the interior spatial design of a home and thinking about an older person um being in that home forever 15, 20 years down the road.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that with us today. And you heard it here from Will. If you guys have some land out there, um call me. Yeah, call Will and also call Will if you are interested in Cedar Vale, which hopefully will be we'll have some new information for you guys by the end of the year into quarter one. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

Yeah, I think we'll I think we'll we'll probably start talking more about it uh in the fall.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Okay, perfect. So we'll have to have you come back and give us a quick update on that.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Love to.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Okay, well, that's all we've got today. Thank you.