Fear and Parenting With Dr. Ken Wilgus

Parental Fear and Faith: Insights from Dr. Ken Wilgus

In this episode of the Home and Marriage Podcast, Lennon and Christal Noland discuss how parental fear impacts parenting decisions and how to balance that fear with faith in God's plan. Special guest Dr. Ken Wilgus, a professional psychologist and licensed counselor, shares insights on how fear can drive parenting styles and discusses effective ways to empower teenagers. The episode also highlights the importance of recognizing the stages of child development and giving children the gift of independence. Dr. Wilgus emphasizes the significance of trusting God in the parenting journey and reassures parents that they don't have to control everything. The episode concludes with practical advice for parents to accept their children's unique paths and to find comfort in God's overarching plan.

Dr. Ken Wilgus Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/feeding-the-mouth-that-bites-you-parenting-teens-into/id1490054246

Dr. Ken Wilgus Book: https://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Mouth-That-Bites-You/dp/B0DJMVCKDX/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=185684973105&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.c1Wyf0r7hQGo-yonN65w0Q.bqQLGhkVvTw2cqF5ic_ht6khGq9ywOPBhSH4I7FWYDg&dib_tag=se&hvadid=779592066850&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9026895&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=2579183758627374502--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2579183758627374502&hvtargid=kwd-2058106714988&hydadcr=22560_13821274_8360&keywords=kenneth+wilgus+books&mcid=2f853be6570e3f6481bc59c923f317f1&qid=1762833209&sr=8-1

00:00 Welcome to the Home and Marriage Podcast
00:52 Weekend Recap: Family Time and Travels
02:23 Discussing Parenting Fears with Dr. Ken Wilgus
05:57 The Role of Parents in Raising Independent Adults
09:43 Balancing Care and Independence in Parenting
13:35 Faith, Fear, and Parenting: A Deeper Dive
18:34 The Pressure of Parenting: Letting Go and Trusting God
18:53 Relaxing into Parenting: Embracing Imperfection
19:38 Wisdom in Parenting: The Role of Fatigue
21:33 Planned Emancipation: Giving Teens Control
22:54 The Importance of Age-Appropriate Parenting
25:48 The Gift of Independence: Navigating Adolescence
29:41 Fearful Parenting: Long-Term Consequences
34:18 Final Thoughts: Trusting God's Plan for Your Children
37:26 Conclusion: Encouragement for Parent

Transcript

Lennon: 0:00

This is the Home and Marriage Podcast with Lennon and Christal Noland, where we help couples become better at home and stronger together. We are a husband and wife, parents and ministers who want God's best for our home and for yours. Well, friends, welcome to the show today. Wherever you're listening and whatever you're doing while you're listening, whether you're in the kid, drop offline, doing dishes, doing a little yard work. I'm glad that you're here with me and my bride, my lover, my baby's mother. It's Christal over there. How you doing?

Christal: 0:30

I'm doing really good, especially with a fire in the fireplace today. Today we have our first cold spell and we're enjoying the fireplace.

Lennon: 0:38

We do not waste a fireplace. No, that's for sure. We are not one of these people in Texas that have an unused fireplace that came when it, the house was built.

Christal: 0:46

Right.

Lennon: 0:47

We, as we talked about before, we will never miss an opportunity.

Christal: 0:51

Yeah, we sure don't. Okay, so let's talk about what's been going on in our lives lately. You were out of town this weekend.

Lennon: 0:58

I was, I was speaking at a great church called Bethel Church in Temple, Texas, and one of the upsides about the downside of being away from you if I travel to speak on a weekend. Is at this phase in our life, I usually try to take one of our teens with us. Right. And so I got to take our firstborn with me. And um, you know, she's off to college soon and so we're really treasuring the times we can get with her alone and we had a fantastic time.

Christal: 1:25

Yeah. I really love when you get to take one of the kids with you because y'all always come back with some good, Stories on what restaurants you ate at, that were good and what were bad. And y'all have a really good time. I think it's just a good time for y'all to connect with one another too. I'm, I'm really glad we're doing that with them right now. And of

Lennon: 1:41

course you do the same here with the other two. Yeah. If you're here, yeah, we do. Real question? We didn't talk about this. Did you guys, uh, do anything fun this weekend?

Christal: 1:48

We did have a good time together. We hung out, we ate dinner, all that good stuff. Ethan had basketball games, so I took him to his basketball games. That was fun. Uh, me and Lizzie cleaned out the attic in the garage together because we're getting ready for a garage sale this weekend. And so. It's funny because it's not like super fun, but me and her connect that way. We both love to organize, we both love things clean and nice and put in their places and so we, we enjoyed making that garage look so much better and cleaning it out, if you could say that. So

Lennon: 2:20

yeah, Y are organizational queens. It's really true. One of the things I talked about this weekend though, it was they asked me to speak on marriage and family, and specifically I talked about the unorganization feel that family life can have sometimes and specifically something that we got into was, was worry and fear. Mm-hmm. In the life of a parent. It's one thing to be living your life and you have plenty to worry about as an individual. Mm. But you bring little humans into the world. You, you marry someone and those opportunities for, I mean, you care so much and you love so deeply. And that also comes with a disproportionate opportunity to find things to worry about.

Christal: 3:01

That's so true. And I remember it happens before the child even comes out into the world. I remember even while I was first pregnant, thinking about having this baby bring it to the world and oh my goodness. How are we gonna care for this tiny little human? And now we're in the teen years and we're facing new fears or new challenges. And so it's really important for us as parents to to deal with our fear in a way that, We turn it back to God and we go to him for the help we need. But we got to talk to one of our favorite guys this week, Dr. Ken Wilgus. And, we talked about this issue of fear and parenting with him. And the way that we found, Dr. Ken I was listening one day to focus on the family podcast, and they were specifically talking about raising teenagers and so I definitely wanted to tune into that and that's where I first heard him. And I remember texting you saying, you've gotta listen to this guy. You gotta listen to this podcast. I just heard he's great and I really love what he says about raising teens.

Lennon: 4:09

Yeah, he. He's been a huge influence on our life. You sharing that podcast episode with me that day, I felt like. It was like a divine appointment. Mm-hmm. Really? And we reached out to him. It turned out Dr. Wilgus lives in North Texas, which is where we live. And so we actually invited him and invited him again and again to our church for three consecutive years that he ministered to our congregation on a parental and a marriage level. And so we've brought him onto the show today, and this is gonna be a real gift and encouragement for you, Dr. Wilgus. Is a professional psychologist and licensed counselor. He works a lot with parents and his big emphasis is on teens and marriage. And so there's very much some, uh, content geared toward teens in this episode. But he also addresses how fear shows up in all different, uh,, parts of the parenting lifecycle. Right. And it was just very fantastic. We had just a slight difficulty with audio and so there are some things that'll sound a little different than it typically sounds, but we made the best adjustments we could and this is gonna be very, very worthwhile.

Christal: 5:22

Yeah. So parents, I hope you find this super encouraging. I know I was very encouraged by the end of our conversation just talking about this subject of fear. We hope you enjoy this episode. So here's Dr. Ken Wilgus.

Christal (2): 5:38

Dr. Wilgus, thanks for joining us.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 5:41

Thanks for having me. Great to see you kids.

Christal: 5:44

We're so glad to have you on our show today and we're excited to get to talk to you today. We've been wanting to talk to you for a while about this, so it's gonna be fun.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 5:54

Yeah, I've looked forward to it.

Lennon: 5:55

Well, we'll jump right in. Um, your book is called Your book that in your message that really. Turned us on to your work, and that has been so helpful for us as parents, uh, feeding the mouth to bite you. And so it seems like the message that runs through your book and, and a lot of your work is we've gotten to, to know you some, is that for parents, you really want parents to devote themselves to helping their kids grow up. In the home and to not to maintain childhood and innocence forever. That's not so much the job of a parent, but we want to help them grow into adulthood as much as we can while we're still with us. Um, that's right. How did that become a core conviction and message of yours?

Dr Ken Wilgus: 6:43

You know, it's, it's a good way to put it. I think it started simply as a message to help parents to understand teenagers, the primary need that teenagers have is to become a fully functioning independent adult. And so initially, 25 years ago, I was mainly talking about. Uh, keeping your eye on the end and, and helping your, your teenager to become an adult, because that's what your teenagers need to know. Am I getting anywhere? Am I growing up? But when you say central conviction, I think yeah. It's become a bigger deal even in the last 15 or 10 years because parenting has somehow morphed into its own. Self-absorbed. Uh, you know, there's too many parents that are really worried about, I wanna look good as a parent, even if my child looks terrible, they're not well behaved. So it's become almost a, a crusade for all areas of life, for all ages and stages that you've gotta keep your eye on the finish line. Uh, so it's, it, it used to be just mainly about adolescence. But now there's just this kind of, uh, increasing kind of parenting that, you know, has good stuff, but it keeps, it doesn't keep track of, there's a finish line. You're trying to, there's a goal here. Uh, and it's not that they'll stay with you forever.

Lennon: 8:05

Right. We, we did a lot of, um, young adult ministry and college ministry over the years and one of the things that I think we noticed, As the years progressed was an increasing amount of parental involvement with, uh, true, true young adults into their freshmen, their sophomore sort of a I bet you saw that. Yeah, we did. We did. And a lot of,

Christal: 8:28

yeah. It's like visiting every weekend. We saw that. Yes,

Lennon: 8:32

we did. Yeah. Yeah. Big standoffs over, uh, paying for your phone if you don't leave your location on so I can, you know, keep, keep track of you, my lord. Yes. Lots of stuff like that. A real hesitancy to ever feel like. Uh, some of this is on them now.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 8:47

That's right. That's right. And there were books that started coming out to try to push back on that. It was a book called How to Raise an Adult by, I think a former dean of students at a major college who was, she was commenting on the very thing you're talking about, parents that are Infantalizing college kids. There was a book, uh, called The Coddling of the American Mind, which kind of covered a lot of that same stuff that's trying to say, hey. Um, this is going backward and you, you're not, uh, focusing on, uh, making adults out of your children. So, yeah. I forgot you guys did college ministry right? During the thick of this and watched it. I'm sure

Lennon: 9:25

we did. We watched a lot of it change. And something you definitely can't say is, is you can't say that these parents are are doing this because they don't care. If anything, it's a, it's an extreme care with, with the desire to, to really help. And yet I think a lot of it, and really this is where we wanna dig in today, a lot of it is very fear driven. And I don't know of any parents that, that don't deal with fear. On some level. I mean, right now we're teaching our oldest to drive. Yeah. And my goodness, it is. Cause for, um, it's scary. For fear. It is scary. Why do you think, um, why do you think fear is such a driver for parents? Why is this such a big deal?

Dr Ken Wilgus: 10:11

Well, you know, it's funny when you mention about parents that are, uh, involved and want, they're, they're very concerned about their kids. That's the only parents I see. You know, it's expensive to come to see me. I don't see parents that don't care about their children. Uh, and, and, and so it's, I don't think it's an increase in care. I definitely think it's an increase in the belief that your children's safety can be, uh, affect you affected by you. That you as parents have the power if you just have the knowledge there. You know, the whole term parenting has become a kind of farce of, there's an inside level of info that if you know this stuff, you can ensure that your child is safe. And happy and successful, but it's all about you. And that is new stuff. I hate to think that anyone would think that my book is, is uh, some sort of guide to this is how you make sure things work out okay. No, it is not. There is no such thing and nobody knows that. So I think it's an increase, not so much in, uh, general care about your kid, but an increase in the belief that what I do, uh, is a huge part of whether my kid is okay or not.

Christal: 11:23

This is making me think, I was telling Lennon the other day how I am so glad when our kids were little, the baby monitors with the screen were too expensive for us. Right, right. And now thinking about it, I would like, I'm so glad we didn't have one. I think all I would do would be stare at that screen and watch the baby all the time and worry about That's right. What could be happening.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 11:45

And now if you had a baby, you couldn't not do that. You would feel you couldn't decide, well, we're not doing that. You'd feel like, oh no, what if we're the one parent that weren't there when a bear was in broke into my baby's room? You know, whatever. Right? You know, you can't go backward.

Christal: 12:02

Right, exactly. Well, what are some common parent tendencies you would say where you see fear at work? And to follow this up, I wanna also ask. You said in your book how Christian parents especially can sometimes be the most fearful parents around. Why do you think that is

Dr Ken Wilgus: 12:23

Well, the first part of your question, the the what tendencies are there? I, if I were to way over generalize what's happened in the world of raising children in the past really 30 to 60 years, it has been an increasing weakening of. Fathers, the father role, which, uh, the psychologist Jordan Peterson said, well, the, if the mother is the extreme champion of the child, as he or she is, the father champions the child as he or she can and should be. And, and that's a general tendency of, of, uh, allowing more. Danger, more things that are risky because in a fathering role, this is training that's necessary and it's very scary to mothers and there's always been that tension back and forth. But I think historically, and I mean a long time ago, There was much more of a philosophy that men had that they could even comfort their wives that, no, I, I have a reason why I am not gonna step in while my boys are beating each other up, or whatever that thing is. That's just scary. It's actually fathering. But the second part of your question about Christian parents, I think, is that. Christian parents that are committed to their faith, they want to be obedient to God. They really feel that sense of, I wanna raise my child in the way he should go, just like the scripture tells me. But they, and this is gonna sound weird, but we have an increasingly reduced view of God. Uh, I'm a big fan of a w Towser. I don't know if you've, I read, uh, knowledge of the holy probably every six months. It's such, and, and, and his view, this was in the 1960s, is that the church's view of the glory of God, his power, his. Ownership of everything, his complete knowledge that can bring comfort to a parent that knows the importance of this parenting, but doesn't have that weird thought that God has just stepped back and crossed his big fingers and hoping you don't screw this up. That's a low view of God and, and I think that's what ends up happening. Parents find it hard to recognize that. For Christian parenting parents during your raising your children is a big part of your own development spiritually. Uh, in, in, in recognizing where you have these fears, which everyone fears, but just don't, don't protect your fear and confess it because it is, uh, uh, almost always a, a lack of recognition that God is here, God is good. Jesus is our assumption that we're good. And, and this fear is something that really shows our lack of faith.

Lennon: 15:03

One of the things that we have found ourselves repeating, uh, in, in these parental and marriage ministry context that we've been in lately is just assuring parents, although I don't know if they always feel it's assuring that you cannot do well enough that your kid will not sin. And that your kid will not suffer. And that is awful. Yes. I, I don't even like to say it out loud, but you know, we always go back. God was the perfect father, Adam and Eve's sinned. Jesus was perfect in every way. He still had Judas, like the, the prodigal son isn't a parable about how the dad should have done better. Right. And so with all of these situations, um, it seems like we kind of need to recalibrate our goal a little bit. I mean, not only is perfection and a hundred percent safety, not possible, but maybe it shouldn't be our goal in our obsession either.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 15:59

Well, that's right. If, if I got everything I wanted for my children's safety, success, and happiness, then there would be no point where they recognized their complete need for Jesus and, and true, you know, salvation, because they're good. And, and that can't be. And I can just tell you, and you guys have seen the same thing over 35 years of working with parents, God never seems to answer that, uh, that request, make my kid happy and and successful all the time. His answer seems to be no, I'm, I'm not gonna give that because there's something more important than their personal success and happiness. And it is that salvation is really the only. Source for us as Christians for joy and confidence, not, not our doing well in school.

Lennon: 16:49

Yeah. Right. We had a conversation with, some parents They were deeply discouraged about the direction one of their children were going. Yeah. And, uh, they made the comment, we have given everything to provide a certain kind of life. We've neglected each other so that we could give them Yes. What they, what they need. And Christal. Very, you know, appropriately and gently said, You don't, you don't have to do that. That's not actually your, it's not actually your job.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 17:20

Those are tough moments though, isn't it?'cause you don't wanna be mean, but the funny part is God does not ask you to give everything. You know, when I, when parents tell me we did, you know, we, um, we did the best we could. For example, my answer is always no you didn't. I mean, why do you have to do that? I said stuff to my kids that I should not have said I didn't do things I really should have done. You know, it's, it's, again, I think that gets back to people who are thinking the pressure is all on me. Because, you know, it's, it's all about whether I am a good parent or not. And, and that is not, that's not our gospel. It's not the truth.

Christal: 17:59

Yeah. I definitely had that fear come up where I'm wondering, oh, am I putting my kids in the right, you know, situations for their education or the right curriculum, right. Or whatever it may be. And I have had this thought a few times, but I remember like, just even my, in my own life and. Me and my brother are musical people, and we both went into musical type jobs. My parents had not one lick of musical. Bone to their body, right? And they never pushed us into getting like lessons or you know, they never did that. We just went after it ourselves. And that to me just shows how even God's calling on our lives, it's really something that he calls us to. And it's okay if as parents we're not like perfectly setting them up. For this calling'cause God can help make that happen ours. Right. And the

Dr Ken Wilgus: 18:49

good news is you can't, you can't perfectly set that up. So just relax. And I gotta say, when we talk like this,'cause we're all three of us preaching to the choir here, I know that there are some mothers particularly, but parents who will take this as criticism that we're saying that, you know, you. We don't have any compassion for. You're trying your best and all that stuff. And to them, my, I think my passion about it is not to criticize that you shouldn't be so all about this. The, the intensity is relax, let go. Recognize the size and scope of our God and, and take it easy. But I've known parents that actually will hear this like, you're, you're being unkind to me. You know? It's like, no, it's not all about you. You really have to think about what's best for your child.

Christal: 19:38

Exactly I was reading in your chapter about fear, you know, you said Half of wisdom is just getting tired. Yeah. I really love that because it, it even made me think of, and this is a little, little different, but connected, a time when my kids were little or I had one kid at one time, I had a friend that she had multiple kids, and her oldest comes up to her and says, um, mama Bubba's eating dirt. And she said, oh, it's okay. It's not gonna kill him. Right. You know? Right, right. And it's just this. This, you know, as you go on in parenting, you, you do start to relax, but on that note, on half of wisdom is just getting tired. Can you go into that more specifically as it pertains to parenting?

Dr Ken Wilgus: 20:22

Yeah, so it, you know, that's just something I discovered in my life as I, as I've gotten older, um, that. I've always been that kind of guy that's like, you know, if my wife doesn't understand me, I'm, I start thinking of this, I'm gonna start saying this more to her in some program or whatever. That over time it doesn't feel like I've learned the wisdom. It's just that, you know, I'm too tired to try these other things.'cause it's, it's a, it's almost a different way of saying, uh, blessed or the poor in spirit. Like it's not all about your strength. Get it all done, just relax. It's you're tired. And I think I mentioned that in the book in relation to the story of Abraham, which I think is a, a good pattern. Um, because you know, God tells Abraham his only son to that. I want you to sacrifice this boy to me. And it, we do find out in Hebrews 11 that he actually did think God would raise that boy. But I don't think, you know, the fact that we don't hear him arguing with God, it's like, okay, sacrifice my son. Let's get an early start. What I think that's because he's been through a lot and he has learned that, you know, getting all worked up about my plans is actually against wisdom and so parents, it's very much what we've been talking about. I would encourage parents to, especially Christian parents, to embrace the things you actually don't control. And ironically with teenagers particularly, it's a big part of what, what I call planned emancipation, which is your teenagers need to hear from you. This is a thing that I am advising or whatever, but I am not gonna try to take control of this thing. There are things you still hold control on, but teenagers need to hear that you are not gonna try to control it. And the first part of those are the things you don't have control over, just. Lean into the fatigue. You can't make sure your teenager doesn't listen to anything with bad lyrics unless you're an Amish and you're not listening to this podcast anyway. Uh, if you have electronics, there are certain things you don't have control over, so just lean into the fatigue. It's just, yeah, just you're tired. Yeah. You can't do that. There's actually more effectiveness, again with teenagers, not children with. Having them hear that, that, you know, what, if you were six, I would step up there and say, you can't be friends with that guy, but you're a junior in high school. I, I can't do that. Those kind of things. So it, it, that's where it applies to parents is, is, you know, just recognize where you really don't have control and instead of beating up on yourself, uh, lean into that in, in either in your faith and or how you talk to your teenagers.

Lennon: 22:54

It seems like a lot of what drives us as parents whenever we're fearful, I mean, we're just trying to be safe and we're just trying to be, um, uh, smart about parenting and because some of these areas where, okay, if, if I relax a little bit and let them within age appropriate ranges, make certain decisions for themselves, I can't guarantee they're, they're gonna do what I would make them do. If I were, if I were hovering or requiring certain things. And so it, it seems like you're, you're saying there are, there are some more important things to accomplish as a parent than just keeping them safe.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 23:33

Yeah. And, and, and that like everything else. One of the big things that I wanna make sure parents know is that when someone says, well, you know, is it most important that I keep my child safe? The first question is, what age child are we talking about? Because it is not the same goal all through. You know, childhood or parenting, and that's one of my big concerns is that there's just a whole lot of parenting advice that doesn't take into account. Wait a minute, what stage is your child? So keeping your child safe is hugely important for a toddler. For preschoolers. I mean, it is critical that you do what you can for them to feel secure in who is who is for me. That's why we have T-ball. Do y'all have T-ball? 4-year-old T-ball? Why do we. It's like we're putting the ball right there in front of you on a tee and they can still miss it. What are we doing? Well, the answer to that is up in the stands with these crazy parents and grandparents that are whipping and hollering over every swing and a miss and getting ready to go to pizza afterward and all that. It is saying to these young children, these are your team. This is the people you can count on. Mm-hmm. And when you. When that gets destroyed through death or divorce and all these things, it really rattles young children, like preschool children, so keep them safe as much as you can. However, even by grade school safety doesn't carry the same strength as now I need to know what am I good at? What am I not good at and how can I handle the stuff that I'm not good at or even what I am good at? And then by adolescence it's a different change, which is safety or not. Who's providing the safety? And if you guys are providing the safety and, and not leaving anything. To me it gets read by teenagers as, okay, so you think I'm weak and an infant and I can't handle stuff, and you're going, no, that's not my message. Well, that is how adolescents hear it. So. I, I would agree with you that, you know, safety isn't, uh, the primary goal of parenting overall. Absolutely. But it doesn't mean that there's not a point where Sure. I mean, no parent, only a bad parent doesn't take care of their three-year-old and make sure that they're safe.

Christal: 25:44

Okay. So I wanna know. We talked about letting go. You know, if we're, if maybe someone's listening today and it, it's really encouraging them to like, you know, I do need to let go more, what would you say would be some steps to take to, to start letting go as a parent, especially as we're approaching these teen years or in the teen years?

Dr Ken Wilgus: 26:05

Well, you know, I always talk about that, that, um, different stages of children's development, they need different things and for much of their life, what the child needs is not really that hard for a parent to provide. So, you know, when you've got a child that is, uh, five and under, like some of my grandchildren, they really need to be held and, and, and just, you know, just loved on. And I gotta tell you, it's not hard. They're a doll. They're so cute. My grandkids are. Cuter than anybody else's kids on this podcast. And so it's not hard. And then when they get older grade school, for example, um, they need to be coached and trained and taught things and, you know, a lot of us as parents. Yeah, I, I, I want to do that. I wanna share with you what I know. I want to teach you these things. So again, what the kid needs isn't that hard for the parent to provide until. Adolescents and the primary need of adolescents, which we call individuation, can also be defined as your teenager needs more and more to not need you. And that's when it gets difficult, that how do I give my teenager the, the gift of not needing. And that makes it really hard'cause it's not easy for the parent to give that. And I think it's really important for that fearful parent to remember that this is not just you backing off and not being involved. It is giving the gift of respect and training that says. Uh, I believe you can handle this stuff even when it's not going well. You are too old for us to jump in. We want to advise and help whatever you want, but what do you want to do about this thing? And, and empower them. So it's not a, you know, again, it's, it's not what can feel like an abandoning of my child. It is in fact giving them the hardest thing to give at all of all because. You don't get anything out of it. No parent goes, oh, I've, my teenagers are great. I, I feel so fulfilled during these years. It, it's, it's not great that'll come back around. But, um, you know, it's giving the gift of not needing me.

Christal: 28:14

So we shouldn't be too worried if our teenager starts acting really independent. And also, uh, maybe we're starting to see in them some, some pulling away or some, I don't really need you, mom or dad. That's, that's not really a bad sign.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 28:30

Not only is that not a bad son, I worry about teenagers that show none of that, and that may surprise some parents. But there is an increasing percentage of teenagers that, you know, he's a junior or she's a senior, and I don't think they even know that dating exists. Or, you know, they still say I'm their best friend. Um, that's a mixed deal. Like, um, again, that, that to me is concerning. I would rather have a teenager that says, yeah, it was fine. I don't wanna talk about it. Uh, in, in the sense of that represents a. Need for independence. Uh, and in my book, as you know, I talk a lot about how you can use that so that you can still be close and connected as long as they know that you know that they are in charge of this thing. But you know, but that kind of pushback, I would agree not only with what you're saying that you shouldn't be concerned, but I would add if you've got that mousey kid that's at home all the time. Isn't doing anything in by 1617. That's actually a concern. I would rather them be annoyed with me than compliant and just, just like they were when they were four. That's not good.

Lennon: 29:39

Well, I know one of the things that. We've seen periodically with some parents that really lean in and force certain issues with older teens of, um, you will, you will break up with him. You will not go there. To speak of this kind of what I've heard you say, sort of weak willed and uber compliant child is something that we've looked at each other. Periodically and said, man, I don't know what kind of long-term relationship or safety they think they're setting up their, their 18-year-old for, but this is gonna backfire in a really big way. Um, how would you say long-term, can you expound some on how fearful parenting can really not give you the outcome that you thought you were pursuing when you were just being helpful and you were just letting them know how it should be?

Dr Ken Wilgus: 30:31

Yeah, listen, there are adults listening to this now that have a parent that is quote, just trying to be helpful and that's why we are not going to her house for Thanksgiving. And then I say her because it is mostly a well-meaning mother that is just trying to help. But I am letting you know where you are, for example, screwing up with your children. The, the whole point there, besides the fact that it's another example of fathering not being strong enough like it could be, but also the whole point there is. It is a way of giving help and trying to be more effective that frankly backfires, like you said it, it may, my interest is for parents to be effective and so you know, girls absolutely can and will date the very guy that my dad doesn't want me to date. Uh, you know, that's a really weird thing. So I, you know, we're in Texas and years ago, it doesn't happen as much now, but years ago I worked at a Christian clinic and about once a year a family would come to see me with a daughter. And they started with, now Dr. Willis we're not racist, but, and then they would talk about that their daughter is dating a black guy and yeah, they're racist. But my goal was yes, for this daughter, I was looking for the daughter that would tell me. You know, I just am, I like this guy. I'm in love with him and you know, it's, and, and I've always felt that would be an important part and has been a part of helping ridiculous racial tensions that, you know, used to be more than they are now. Here's the disappointment. Every one of those girls were basically dating this guy.'cause he was the one my dad didn't want me to date. And that was disappointing to me. I wanted an honest love story of just, and, and I know they're out there, but, uh, it, it both worked. The parents were. Uh, pushing, uh, and controlling a thing that they can't, but, but ironically, it actually made it harder for their teenager to follow with what they wanted. You can't say, uh, yes to something that you have no power to say no to, and they were gonna prove that you can't say no to dating, different things like that. So it's ineffective. It can feel like I am doing what God wants me to do. He tells me to. Speak truth and whatever. Well, again, that it's not all about you. Pay attention to who you're talking to and if this teenager will hear what you're saying, not well-meaning, but as disrespect. And again, like I said, this even goes into adulthood. Then, um, change your message so that they won't misread as. You know, everything you say begins with, remember, you don't know anything and I know everything, so let me tell you blank. And everyone's closing their ears. I don't, I don't wanna hear that.

Lennon: 33:19

Mm-hmm. I wish we had more time. I'd, I'd want you to talk about the power of advice giving instead of directives. Yes, exactly. With older teens. Um, yeah. Yeah. Goodness,

Dr Ken Wilgus: 33:30

Even with adult kids advice giving. Oh, and as a grandfather, let me just tell you that grandparents are going to watch their children do things with their children that causes you to bite your nails. I mean, my kids do great with their kids, but I don't, I'm not in full agreement with everything. And guess what? Mostly not my business. Um, so, you know, that's, and that's another example of. Do, do. I think that praying about that is just a side thing that I should do, but it's not really effective. Wow. Really, we, we don't think that leaving this to God is, is any kind of a plan. I've got to say something. Wow. Yeah. It's just, just get tired. You let it go and you, you, it's not all about you.

Christal: 34:18

So, Dr. Ken, you've, you've really encouraged us a lot as parents, I think, just being able to know that it's okay not to control everything. Fear over everything is not gonna fix anything. But also could you just give our parents any last 10%? Anything else that you would say, would be good for them to hear on this subject of fear.

Dr Ken Wilgus: 34:40

I think the, the most of what I would really want them to know, we've talked about, I think one thing that is important for parents of children of all ages is that when you are talking to another parent that is overwhelmed with fear, that fear doesn't look like they're fearful. Fearful parents don't look scared. They're not biting their nails. They're the ones that are, they seem more passionate, more prepared than you. They contacted the little league coach when their child turned one month to make sure they're on the right team. And it usually leaves you fearful. That Uhoh, I don't think we're doing this right. So I would be cautious about, um, fear Masquerades as. On top of it and, and extra prepared. Uh, and, and you don't want to feel like, um, I'm just screwing up. Uh, always keep in mind that. When we really trust what God is doing, it starts by just accepting and looking at your kids as they really are. And that's the hardest thing, what they really are good at, what they really aren't good at, and, and accepting them as they are, rather than the ideal that you have for them. Because I tell, I'm telling you the, the ideal you have for your kid. Isn't God's ideal and guess whose is better? Uh, I, I tell the story in my book, I'm not proud of it, of the time that I pushed my son in football. It's a long story because I knew he could get girls in high school. I mean, come on. That's the best thing ever. And by eighth grade when my, his pediatrician, who I was a fraternity brother of mine, is sadly trying to tell me that. Um, these back injuries he has are basically fake. He's trying to get out of football and he was saying in such a sad way that I was like, oh my goodness, you're telling me I'm pushing my son to be something athletically that he's not? He was always, he could do it physically, but he was soft hearted and, and it's just, oh, I want him to be tough and aggressive. Well, now he's the pastor of my church, so, you know, it worked out fine. God's plan that is different from what I thought is always better. So if, if grace and our, uh, the, the joy that we have can give us anything, it should be parents' ability to see and accept more of the way that your child is going and not constantly preparing a path for where we're gonna make them go. Uh, that that's the harder thing. And again, that scared parent is the one that makes you think. Oh rats. We're, we're screwing this up. They're doing it way better than us. That's usually what it feels like.

Christal: 37:18

That's really good. Thank you. Thank you for that encouragement. I needed that today.

Lennon: 37:26

Well, that was a great episode with a, with a good friend and a very important and encouraging voice for parents to hear more of Dr. Wilgus. I'd encourage you to, uh, listen to his podcast. He's got a podcast that we both listen to. On a weekly basis, it is called Feeding the Mouth That Bites You. And he is got a book by the same name available anywhere, books, or sold. And so friends, we really do hope that, um, you will consider the things scripture has said about fear to be true. As it applies to your parenting, God has not given you a spirit of fear and you don't have to be dominated by fear. It matters to you that you have a God in heaven, a father of your own who loves you and will equip you to lead and raise these kids. So friends, that's it for this week. Don't forget to subscribe and follow so that you never miss an episode. Leave us a review if this podcast has been an encouragement for you so others can find the show. Visit home in marriage.com For more resources, like our six Habits of Happy Couples course, use the podcast code there. Podcast 20 for$20 off. You can also follow along on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. All the links are in the show notes.

Christal: 38:39

Thank you for joining us on the Home and Marriage Podcast. We really do believe that home can be your favorite place. We'll be back again next week with more encouragement and wisdom to help you become better at home and stronger together.