Walking in Forgiveness Together

On this episode of the Authentic Marriage Podcast, hosts Shawn and Lauren, along with Chris and Brooke, have a powerful conversation about forgiveness and its essential role in a Christ-centered marriage. When living closely with someone, selfishness must be laid aside, and forgiveness becomes not just an option, but a command.

The hosts reflect on how Jesus has forgiven us and how we are called to extend that same grace to our spouse. They discuss how unforgiveness allows conflict to fester, creating division and opening the door for the enemy to work within a marriage.

Through biblical truth, listeners are reminded not to let the sun go down on their anger, while also using wisdom to approach conversations with the right timing and heart posture. Forgiveness requires humility, especially when asking for it, but it is a necessary step toward healing and unity.

This episode highlights that while there is a cost to forgiveness, requiring humility and surrender, the cost of unforgiveness is far greater. It can create lasting division and even impact future generations. Couples are encouraged to pursue forgiveness daily, choosing to reflect Christ in both their words and actions.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome back to the Love for Lifetimes Authentic Marriage Podcast. I'm Chris. This is my wife Brooke. They're Sean and Lauren. We're coming to you from Chateau Nouvelle today. Guys, we're driving over today. We happen to notice that Cavendar's Boot City was packed. And normally we drive past there and it's empty. It is indeed.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

You know that the rodeo's here. I was going to say that's that's what I'm figuring.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

That tells me rodeo season is here in Houston. Uh and it kicks off uh very soon.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Yeah, in fact, our sister-in-law, she lives in Florida. She rides horses and our nieces ride horses, and she has to speak at a conference in San Antonio next week. So she's coming in early so we can she can go experience the Houston rodeo. Because I guess Florida's a big horse and rodeo area as well, but I guess nothing.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Can she come bigger in Texas, right? Can she come and like tame our horses at Sandalwood? Uh, we could ask her. I think our horses have actually gone to like the horse whisper and still have yet to be tamed. So well, they're nice to look at from a distance. They're they're they're nice to look at. That's about what do you get with them?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

You can feed them.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

You can feed them.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Who'd you say was coming in town for that?

SPEAKER_03 1:17

My sister-in-law.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Sister-in-law. You have to get her to the mutton busting. That's the best part of the thing. Oh, I know. If nobody knows what that is, they put these four-year-olds with helmets on these sheep and let them run across the stadium. Hilarious. Half of them are crying. It's the funniest thing. So cute. It's cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

And some of them are like super like determined. Like you said, some of them like they're hanging on there. They're not gonna fly into the dirt.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah. But she knows people who actually do the bull riding. Wow. I don't know that they'll be in Houston, but like she knows bull riding. You can't have everything. I don't know. Scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Scary. It's pretty impressive, though. It is. It's definitely fun to watch. It's definitely fun to watch.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Oh, we're headed to the Bahamas, so y'all go to the rodeo. We'll be on the beach.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Two different directions.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yes. I'm excited to lay on the beach.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yes, we need it. You guys are getting out of town for spring break. Yes. Kind of rest to relax a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

They are taking their two little boys with them, though. They're beach bombs. They love the beach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

They love it. They ask every day when are we going to the beach house? Oh, sweet. They come by that honestly. From you two. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

So that means you're traveling with kids.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Oh, yes. We do it regularly. And just a couple suitcases, knowing Lauren. And just a couple of suitcases. We are trying to decrease every time we go. We always say we're not going to bring as much, and then somehow it's more the same.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

It's we've done it with two car seats, 11 bags, some carry-ons. And then like the plane got cancelled, and so then we have to try to find a hotel and carry all this luggage. It was a rodeo updated.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

This is this leads us perfectly into our topic. Which is forgiveness. I can just see that uh after Sean had to find a way to get two car seats, 11 suitcases to a hotel, that he was uh maybe a little bit frustrated? Frustrated with someone?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I used to watch the news now, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Wait, it's been eight days now.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

It's really hoping.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Well, anyway, talks takes us into our topic, uh, which is forgiveness. Um uh our pastor Jeff at Woods Edge, he likes to say marriage is the union of two big forgivers. I think that's what he says. Yeah, he does. So it's so interesting, right? Marriage is this, you know, closest, most intimate relationship outside of your relationship with the Lord, but it's on the earth here, it's the closest relationship you're gonna have. But it also tends to just lead to a lot of friction and a lot of hurt often. Uh that you've got to deal with on a on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah. Living closely with someone, you have to kind of put your selfishness aside, or it it's gonna you're gonna have a lot of friction.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, what do you tell people sometimes? Some days you I have no idea what you're saying. Oh, sometimes you tell people that that you some days you love me, but you don't like me.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Oh always love you, don't always like you.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

That's great. Well, yeah. Well, I think it's important for us to realize that forgiveness isn't really optional for believers, it's a command. Um, and just like Jesus forgave us, we are to extend that. Um, whether that person even asked for forgiveness or changes their behavior or anything like that. I mean, um Jesus uh forgave us before we ever even came to him. You know?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Well, he forgave the people nailing him to the cross and scourging him and doing all that as that was happening. He forgave them. So, you know, I used to say, Well, do I have to forgive them? They haven't even asked for it yet. And well, if you read the Bible, you absolutely have to.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Yeah, and I think in marriage, like just an example is, you know, if when, and this is like, so when Sean gets frustrated with the kids, I everybody is gonna think I'm the super frustrated guy.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

He used to be.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Um probably did used to be.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Um, but when he does, his tone gets up there. And so when he talks to me, it's very tony, which is funny because he used to say, Oh, he used to be the tony one, right? And so uh two different tones and hard. Yeah. And I've had to learn to forgive regardless of like because I could stew on it and I could get really upset about it and stay on it. And I think even just the other day we were driving up uh to Fredericksburg and the kids frustrated and everything, and we were kind of you could feel the tension in the air. And um, I sat there and I was like, I could, I could just not talk, you know, I just don't want to talk. And I could put, you know, and and then like then the Lord was like, why? Why would you do that and ruin a whole trip and like extend forgiveness? Like just let it roll off your back, like, like it's okay to to release it, you know. And um, so I I didn't even say, you know, you need to, you know, ask for an apology, you know, like uh I didn't say anything, I just immediately in my heart just released it to the Lord and just was like, you know what, I forgive him. You know, I can understand that he can be frustrated. And I tried to, you know, and and I think it's important too to realize most of the time it's not the person that you're at war with, it's the enemy you're at war with. And I know we've talked about that before, but the enemy is the one lying to the other person or to you and creating conflict, right? Because he wants your relationship not to work, he wants you to have unforgiveness, he wants those things of you. Um don't let him have it, just stop it, you know, and you can stop it, or you can give him what he wants. And you know, uh when we were um in our Bible college, it says that you know, the enemy tries to put his nature on you, you know, and and uh we're supposed to walk in God's nature, you know. Um so and that was really helpful to see, like, man, we can take on his nature too easily and and open up just a door of things to our life.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, and if if our marriages are supposed to reflect God's love for his people, then the enemy can come in and make you bitter. And even if you stay together, if you're just crouchy, bitter, awful people, it doesn't reflect God's nature, like you're saying. And so the enemy wants to do that. He wants to lie to me, he wants to tell me I should be frustrated or tell you you should be mad at me or whatever. And sometimes we lie into it. Um and then we we repent and we forgive one another for for our things, and it um it's really healthy in a marriage to forgive.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

I think it's I mean you know, you're talking about in that situation you just had it within your heart where you just knew it was it was kind of you and your response to him where you just were able to let it go and forgive. I think there are times though it's really important to actually acknowledge and to ask for forgiveness or to share that there is a hurt. Right, yeah. Because some things we really do need to work through. Oh, for sure. So having that discernment of of which is which, because we've been, I mean, in the past especially, we're not at all good about articulating hurts or small offenses. And I I mean, I would just rationalize them, well, you're just being silly, or that doesn't really matter, or whatever. He's so or he'd be so busy with work and things, I wouldn't want to add to his stress, so I wouldn't vocalize my hurts or or those things. But then that was not healthy because that really drove a wedge between us. And Chris got really good because he was realizing that we would do that.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

It took me 20 years, I think.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yep, but you still are better at it than I am, actually. But he'll I mean we've maybe we've shared this before, but he'll like come up to me and say, This might sound really silly, and right there, that takes my defenses down because I'll agree with him. This is probably gonna sound really silly, and then I'll say, but but this hurt my feelings or this whatever, but it's the way he does it is so humble that it can't help but put any of that posture of okay, let's yeah, and let me hear this.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

And we can forgive and still have the discussion, right? Like sure. So we're still called to forgive, regardless of we've had that discussion. But I agree that a lot of the times those things can add up and add up, and that is a discussion you need to have because if the other person doesn't know that it's hurting you, yeah, like that's not good communication, right? So I do agree 100%. Like again, we're coming back to communication. Always come back to communication. Like we're always gonna be coming back to this.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Well, I think and as I said, I mean, Brooke says I'm good about it, good about it now. It it took me 20 years to figure that out because for 20 years I probably wouldn't communicate it. I thought it was little things, I thought I'd uh it shouldn't I shouldn't upset me, I shouldn't be bothered by that. You know, oh that's beneath me to get bothered by that pride coming back into there. Um but what I realized is that you know I would try to ignore those little hurts and try to move past them. But what happened with me is they would build up inside and eventually they would all come out on a Sunday night.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

I'm telling you, on a separate time, it's a Sunday night, we're getting ready for bed. Oh, months.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

I mean weeks, six weeks, eight weeks. It would all come out all in one avalanche of frustration, which which was completely unfair because she had no idea. Yeah, right. I was holding it all inside. I was not uh not letting it go, I was not forgiving, and it was creating bitterness in me. And it would start with little things, you know, little things where you know, I thought she disrespected me, or you know, I went to open the door for her and she said, Oh, I can do it myself. You know, I mean silly little things, but you take and this is what happens in marriage, you live in close proximity. It may be dozens, if not hundreds, of those little things that all start adding up and you start to feel insulted or disrespected. And it's much better to communicate them. That's what I learned. That's what I learned for me is if I didn't bring them up and communicate about them, um, they would fester. So I kind of learned that I need to bring it up and kind of let her know. Even though you I think it's silly, she thinks it's silly. I think being heard helped me move past it.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah, and and I think an important thing is if there is unforgiveness or this hasn't been communicated, there can't be intimacy there because something's being withheld, some walls being put up, something's being hidden, and you don't have intimacy if things are being hidden from each other. And we've learned that as well. Like you have to to be forthcoming, you have to forgive if you want to be close to close to one another, as close as possible.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

So I think a good scripture to to you know lean on in this is again, it's this this isn't us just talking just to say things. This is scriptural based. Um, Ephesians 4.32 says, be kind and compassionate, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. So we forgive because we've been forgiven.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, I like uh Colossians 3, I think it's 3.13. Bearing with one another. Uh, and if anyone has a complaint against another, forgiving each other as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. I like that bearing with one another. Bearing with one another. I love you, honey, but sometimes I just have to bear with you.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Ditto. But I think what's so cool about these scriptures is it's a command from the Lord to forgive, but God doesn't tell us to do anything he doesn't equip us to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Or anything that he hasn't done for us.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Exactly. He that Jesus gave us that example of forgiving. Like you said, the people on the cross with him. You know, there's forgiveness as he was on the cross.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

So I like this. Um Andrew Womack, uh, who leads Karis Bible College, says forgiveness is not based on the other person's performance, it flows from understanding God's grace towards you. Yeah. You know, when you understand the grace you've been given, then you can extend that grace.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Um I think that's interesting that not based on someone else's performance, because when you're when you're stuck in that, then you're suddenly connecting your happiness to someone else's performance and what they do. And you're trapping yourself. So I think that's a really good example. Gives me a very good picture about here's the risk if you don't forgive, well, then you're gonna carry that and say, well, they didn't do this, they didn't do this, and you get into the performance or the measurement or the scorekeeping. Uh that's that's never good in a marriage.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

I think that we need to address too, though, that I think the world's idea of forgiveness, though, is you kind of think, well, forgive and forget, or saying, Well, if I forgive you, that means I'm telling you it was okay. And that's not true. Like that's not what forgiveness is.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

So it's a hard concept to learn, especially as somebody who has struggled with forgiveness. Probably why I've been frustrated most of my life is there's bitterness and frustration that has mounted up from unforgiveness. And I I used to feel like if I forgive them, then I'm gonna justify what they did as right and it was wrong. Right. But then it's really hard to look in the mirror at the things that you do, the things that somebody might hold against you that maybe you didn't even intend to do, but they look at as something that you you need to be forgiven for. And as I started to look at that, and I'd get mad at somebody, I would think, man, I know that I've hurt people too. And I know I haven't asked for forgiveness. And and I hope in their heart that they've forgiven me for the things that I've done. You know, I don't have control over that. But it started to make me look at things differently as I need forgiveness as much as anybody does that I can, you know, that has hurt me. And that's hard. But a lot of the things that we've done has have made us uh very introspective on where have we been wrong in these things? Where have where is our fault? And the person in the circle, I can only fit the person inside the circle.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

And sometimes that's hard to do. It's a really difficult thing to do. But once you start to do it, it's free.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Well, that's hum it takes humility to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

But it frees you. It frees you from that bitterness and that hatred. And and bitterness turns into hatred.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

This leads to a really good scripture in 2 Corinthians 2, 10 through 11. It's uh Paul's talking and he says, Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven, if there was anything to forgive, I have forgiven in sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. He's connecting unforgiveness to the enemy gaining foothold in our life. Like, so clearly, like the Bible is showing us like, listen, unforgiveness gives the enemy legal right and access into your life. Do you want that? Opens the door. It opens the door uh to to all the things that the schemes that he has, and but forgiveness, it closes that door shut. It closes it, you know. So that to me, I I like to think more in the spiritual realm a lot. Um, you know, uh, because that that's that's more real, you know, than what we really experience here. And so um, because there's so much happening in the spiritual realm. And if you realize that your unforgiveness literally gives legal access, that that's scary. That's scary.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Not only to you, to your children. Yeah, right? Put it in even in a further context, right? That's where these generational things come from, is these footholds that have gotten into the door, and they will move from generation to generation. If you don't knock that out, then you don't stop that. Yeah, and and if you you think, yeah, I'm tough enough, I can handle it. Do you really want to put that on your kids? Do you really want your kids to have that bitterness and and you know it's bad. When you're bitter, you know it's bad.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Um and you don't want your kids to feel that. You don't want your kids going through that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

We were talking about this in the car the other day, and kind of just fleshing this out a little bit and saying that basically when there's an offense in your marriage and there will be offenses from little ones to big ones, you have to make a choice. Do you forgive or do you not forgive? There's a cost to both of those. Forgiveness, there's a cost. You've got to humble yourself. You've got to seek to be like Christ. You know, there's a cost there. Um, but there's also a cost if you choose not to forgive. And it's a choice. Forgiving or not forgiving is a choice. Even if you choose to do nothing, you're probably choosing to not forgive there, right? But if you choose unforgiveness, the the ripple effects of that are just huge because then that's that wedge between you and your husband, which then ripples into your children, and this, like you're talking about, can actually have generational impact depending on how large you know this issue is. So I think there's there's there is a cost either way, but which is the cost worth paying? I think the humbling and forgiving is worth paying as opposed to putting that on your spouse, your children, the people around you.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

When Chris and I were talking about pride, there was a verse that said that you know God is against or he is opposed to the pride thing. He's opposed to them. Well, there's another scripture, Matthew 6, 14 through 15. If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Meaning he's opposing you now. And I don't want to do anything. We talked about it in that podcast. I don't want to do anything that God is opposed to. Right? I don't want to be protection. I want to be underneath his wings, I want to be um blessed by him. I don't want to be opposed by God.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

No.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Right. So the pride and and unforgiveness, it says here that he wants to do it for you or he'll oppose you. That's that's pretty big.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I think what's interesting in this is that in in our society, uh granting forgiveness uh has been maybe linked to weakness. Right? People are saying, oh, wait a minute, they're they did you, they did something wrong against you, and you're forgiving them, though you're being weak, or you're allowing them to take advantage of you. And and thinking about how this all back ties is this is all ties back to the schemes of the enemy, right? He's coming, Satan's coming to devour and destroy and divide. And if he can get you to a point where you feel you are owed something and you don't want to forgive, and then that puts that root of bitterness in your heart and that starts to separate separates you from that other person. It separates you not just from that other person, but then it starts to separate you from God. And it's just that that twisting of the enemy to make us think, oh, if you forgive someone, that is a weakness. They're gonna take advantage of you. And I think Brooke, you said this earlier. I can forgive, maybe I don't forget, right? Depends on the situation. Maybe I have to put limits on that relationship, maybe I have to put you know guardrails or defense mechanisms in around that for protection, but I can still forgive.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

And you you said a word there, justify it. And I I believe that justification is the biggest tool the enemy has against us. Because if you can justify anything, if you can justify anger, if you can justify lust, if you can justify any of these things, then every sin is open to you because you're justified in it. And that's not what God says, right? We're justified through Christ. He sees us as righteous through Christ. And I I struggle with justification. I can justify anything. And literally any sin can come from that, murder can come from that, right? Adultery can come from that. You justify why your spouse is terrible, and I deserve this, right? And once you start to do that, I think that. The enemy uses that so much. Especially in marriages when somebody's hurting you or just little things, right? And the enemy's like, uh you're justified to go do this. You're justified. You're right. She's she's wrong. You need a divorce or whatever it is that that happens. We can be justified to do anything.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

It struck me this morning in my quiet time. I was praying through the Lord's Prayer, and I knew we were talking about this today, and it's um, and forgive us our debts as we have forgiven our debtors, or for um forgive trespasses or sins is another version of that. And that's in the Lord's Prayer. That's what Jesus specifically taught us to pray is to forgive us as we forgive. You know, that I'm getting all confused, you know, but that God will forgive us as we forgive others. And kind of as you were saying earlier, gosh, I want to be forgiven. I want the Lord to forgive me, but then uh that means I need to be forgiving of of others, and certainly above all of my spouse.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Well, I think the Lord knows that you know unforgiveness just destroys, you know, and that he doesn't want that for us. He wants good for us.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

You know, um, he's a loving God, he wants good for us, he wants, he wants our relationships to prosper and to bring joy and um, you know, so realizing that a foothold of unforgiveness can really almost begin a tear, a small tear, and then a bigger tear, and a bigger tear, and a bigger tear. And um, most of the time, I would say the reason people end up getting a divorce, it's because of so much unforgiveness that they've become so bitter and now they hate their the person that they married because they just let that unforgiveness just let's planted as a seed, just take such seeds start to give root. Um, and like you said earlier, Chris, in that, you know, there was a lot of things you were stacking up against Brooke, right? And then you just exploded it all at once, you know. But had you not done that even and you continued, where would you be today? You wouldn't want to be close to Brooke because you will have all of these the this stackable offenses.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Certainly. And that creates, like you said, that frustration leads to bitterness, leads to contempt, leads to hatred, this cycle that if you have to break it, and it's and it's especially when you have lack of communication and and and some of these little things, you know, Brooke didn't even know, so there was no way she was going to break the cycle because she wasn't even necessarily aware of some of the slights or the wrongs that I was feeling. Um so you have to break that cycle. Yeah, and you have to be willing to communicate and you have to be humble in trying to break that cycle.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And I think we've talked about the forgiver a lot, right? The person who has to forgive. But I think we know too when we've upset our spouses or you know, with her, it's a little crinkle of the eye, uh-oh, I did something. So I have to quickly figure out what I did or communicate. But then it it it's also I should really be asking her for forgiveness, not just I'm sorry, because I'm sorry, your kids do that to you all the time. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not because you're not changing your behavior. But it's it's I'm sorry, will you forgive me? And that posture is really humble. You know, you know you did wrong. You're not just flippantly saying, I'm sorry, you're saying, Will you please forgive me? I know I did wrong in that. And there's such healing in that when and and forgiveness comes so much easier with that, because if somebody humbly comes to you and says, Will you forgive me? It's pretty hard to say, no, I'm not gonna forgive you. Because then you know, you know, you know you're walking with the enemy there.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

And I think it's even important to say, I am sorry for that. So it's really clear that because maybe she's mad at you for something else, right? Yeah, so it'll be really clear what you're asking for forgiveness for, and then I think it's also important to acknowledge and say, Yes, I do forgive you.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

We have our kids do that, and they'll they have to say I'm sorry to one another and then ask each other forgiveness. And when one of them doesn't get forgiveness given, like he's like, Hey, wait, you're not gonna forgive me? You know, and the other one's still a little bit mad, but then they process it better and then they do forgive one another. I forgive you, Roman, or I forgive you, no, and and it's it's actually really sweet to watch because instantly they go and play together. They're not that friction's gone, and then they go play together and do something, and it's kind of cute, but um I like this statement.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

It says, unforgiveness is rooted in self-righteousness. Believing you have the right to hold someone accountable beyond what Christ held you accountable for.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

That's pretty deep.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

That's pretty deep.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, ouch.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

You know, forgiveness, I think unforgiveness holds the um unforgiver hostage. It destroys you internally. Um, I've done that in my past where I just let it fester and fester, and it destroyed me. Um and the Lord loves us enough to be like, hey, it's not good for your relationships, but it's really not good for you. You know? Sometimes the offender doesn't even know they've offended, but it eats us up. Exactly. Hopefully not in our marriage, but possibly. Yeah. But I love what you said, you know, um, where marriage is uh too too uh too big for givers. Because it does take two in a relationship, right? And sometimes it is just, you know, if you f if you you get in an argument and realizing that a lot of the times arguments take two, right? And so um being humbling yourself enough to say, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

So one thing that's come to mind as we're talking is just that verse that talks about not letting the sun go down on your anger. You know, and I think people think that means that you need to just get everything worked out before you go to sleep. And um just I don't think that's quite what that means. I think it's important to come to a place of agreement of maybe tonight at Sunday night at 11 o'clock when you have to be up at five is not the best time to have this conversation. But let's say, but we will come back to this. I know that there's hurt, I know we need to talk about some things, but let's get because if you're hungry, you're tired, you're upset, you're angry, that's not the best time, probably to talk through these things. So set a time perhaps to come together and say, okay, we're gonna have some time here that's protected where we can talk, really talk this through. But make sure you don't let it, you know, don't wait another week. Like address it quickly, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the moment.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Like I said, I think we still can release the unforgiveness, right? We can still are we can still forgive, right? And and we can talk about it later to to to move forward um and get resolution, but you can still forgive in your heart. You can still release that person.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Or ask the Holy Spirit to help you start. Yeah, release your resolution.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Sometimes it's really hard to even feel. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

I think I think as we we wrap up here, I think the probably the one thing to add to that is look, you know, we're talking about sometimes it's it's a bunch of small offenses and little things, but there also are big things that happen in marriage. And that may be a longer process, as you said of forgiveness. Maybe you're gonna ask the Holy Spirit in there and you're you're saying, I'm gonna start on this road of forgiveness. It may not, it may be a process. I think what I would also say is, hey, it's okay to go get help, right? And some of those bigger things, if you need to go outside and seek a counselor uh for the two of you or for you to work through, that's okay, right? And some of these bigger things that can happen in a marriage.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

And I love what you said because there are like major offenses that just have ripped such a um such a tear in a relationship. Um and I would just say too, like, God is our helper and he can help us to, you know, just continue to lean on him for um that help in forgiving that person, that help in seeing that person the way that he sees them, and and really lean on him to be your helper in that time where you know um, you know, it is hard, it is very difficult, and it might not be the easiest road ahead, but if if you lean on God, man, he he'll help you get through it. He really will. We've had major major things happen to us, you know, um, and I know we have to wrap up, where you know,$150,000 was stolen from us when we first started sandalwood and and other big things, and it was like it was just a tear, you know, like we didn't even know how we were gonna get through moving forward with the business. And um, we really had to lean on the Lord to give us the strength to help us to forgive because it did come back in our mind, right? How could how could this person do this to us?

SPEAKER_00 31:17

How could, you know, and when things got tight, it was like, gosh, if we just had that, this jerk took away. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

And we literally would have to say, you know what? Let's just remember, like, let's pray together, let's let's lean on God, let's release this to Him, He'll take care of this.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

He's bigger than this offense.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

It was hard, but uh we committed to continually giving it to God. And I'm telling you, He will help you through major things like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

And now it's like And in fact, when I think about it now, I'm like, yeah, it happened. But you know what? And I'm like, you know what? It doesn't help me.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

I get to see the good in and and because God turned it around for good. And we get and we grew from it and stuff like that, and it was hard.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

And we got to learn what was our trusted money or was our trusted God. Right? So all these things came from it. It was evil that it happened. But like there was a lot of good that that was revealed in us too.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

I think there's a great visual there thinking about that you said, and you've kind of made the motion, it's a it was a big tear, a big tear like that. And essentially you had to lean on God and He had to stitch it back, stitch by stitch by stitch to mend that terror. And sometimes it takes a little time to do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

And he blesses obedience. So he calls you to forgive, he knows the offenses, and they're big.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

And he says vengeance is mine, it's not yours, it's mine.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

And so he blesses you when you forgive, and you forgive again, and you you know, you just release it back to him, release it back. He blesses that.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

I think that the hard part is we want people to pay for what they've done. Right? We want justice. And we we don't we don't want justice for ourselves, we want justice for other people. And if we got the justice we deserved, we wouldn't be done that.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

So forgive us a tough, tough topic sometimes in marriage. Starts with communication, definitely, but then it and it follows through with humbling and and leaning on God. So uh Lauren, would you mind maybe praying us out?

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Yeah, sure. Lord, we just thank you for this time, and Lord, we thank you that you um were an example for us of forgiveness, that you extended forgiveness to us when we never even deserved it. Um, Lord, and that you wanted us and that you pursued us first. And Lord, um, thank you for your word that we can stand on. Thank you that you are our helper, and Lord, that you will give us the strength when we um are offended, when um something, somebody does something against us, Father, that you will be our helper to forgive. And Lord, I just pray for every person listening, Father, that you um that right now, Father, you speak to each person where there might be areas um that they are holding on forgiveness, Father, that they can release that to you and be free, Father, um, to walk in joy and and um to walk in that freedom, Father. And and Lord, you you want that because you love us and you want good for us. So Lord, right now I just pray that you speak to each person where that might be. And I and I just uh I thank you, Lord, that you reveal when we ask, that you are faithful to respond and reveal because um you want us to be more in your image. Uh thank you that we get to walk and talk with you and uh become more like you as we seek you more and are obedient to you. And Lord, we just uh thank you for this time and thank you that you care uh about each one of us in our marriages, Father. And I just bless each marriage that is listening right now, and um, we love you, Lord, in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Amen. Well, that's uh all we have time for today on uh Love for a Lifetimes Authentic Marriage Podcast. We're Chris and Brooke, they're Sean and Lauren, and we look forward to seeing you guys next time.