How to Handle Hard Conversations With Confidence as a Manager | Scott Tillema

Hear Scott speak live at the Intentional Leader Summit on August 6th, 2025

Connect with Scott Tillema on Linkedin
Watch Scott's TED Talk: The Secrets of Hostage Negotiators
Recommended Book: Hostage at the Table by George Kohlrieser

Can you lead through conflict—even without trust? Scott Tillema shares hostage negotiation skills that every leader can use to navigate difficult conversations and rebuild trust at work.

What does a hostage negotiator know that can help you manage workplace conflict?

A lot, actually.

In this episode, I’m joined by keynote speaker and former SWAT negotiator Scott Tillema, who brings decades of real-world experience to the conversations leaders dread the most—those awkward, uncomfortable, or downright tense interactions we tend to avoid.

We talk about how to build connection fast (even when trust is gone), what it really means to lead with influence, and why courage—not confidence—is the skill you need to move forward.

And while most of us aren’t trying to talk someone down from a ledge, we are leading people—often without the clarity, tools, or language to move things in the right direction.

If you’ve ever felt stuck between avoiding conflict and wanting a better work culture, this one’s for you.

Key Takeaways

• Why connection—not trust—is the real starting point for influence
• How to coach team members through conflict without being the villain
• What to say to shift someone from combative to collaborative

difficult conversations at work, workplace communication, leadership podcast
new manager tips, managing workplace conflict effectively, how to lead with influence
how to have hard conversations as a manager, conflict resolution strategies for leaders, how to build trust at work after it’s broken

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Coachin...

Transcript

Desiree Petrich (00:01.422)
All right friends, so I am here with Scott. We have been connected for a couple of years now in the keynote speaker space and he has taken off like you wouldn't believe. I am very honored to say that he will be joining us as one of the keynote speakers for the Intentional Leaders Summit coming up in August. So Scott, tell us a little bit about what we can expect to see when you are on stage speaking wisdom into us about having hard conversations.

Scott Tillema (00:24.166)
Yeah, first of all, I can't wait to be there. I'm excited for the event, excited to be one of your speakers. So thank you for the opportunity to share some of this with your audience, for all the people that are listening in now and for all the people that will be there. But what I'm gonna be talking about is I'm taking leadership from a bit of a different angle. I wanna share the skills of leadership. And we're gonna be talking about how we lead with influence. And I'm gonna be talking about...

the same techniques that I've used in life or death conversations and how the audience can use that in their difficult conversations to find business success and find peace and happiness in their lives. And it's kind of unique that I got to work for 20 years as a SWOT hostage negotiator. I worked 20 years in law enforcement specializing for a period of those years in hostage and crisis negotiation. Super cool. I mean, it's the stuff that they make movies about.

And when you are trusted to have these conversations with people who are threatening harm, threatening violence to themselves or others, you learn in a hurry that you can be a powerful verbal influencer. Like we all have the ability to do this. I wasn't born with this. For sure this was taught. This is a bunch of skills that I've learned and really honed through this experience of having these tough conversations with people and we can all learn it. And when we get good at it,

There's very little we can't do. And I get to speak with leadership groups, with sales kickoff meetings, human resources that are always having difficult conversations. I believe the conference is approved for some SHRM credit, which is amazing. Customer service, if you just wanna be a good person, these techniques are gonna help you do that. And I'm not an academic, so I'm not coming in saying, let's read this paper or understand this research. I'm a practitioner. I want tools that I can use right away.

And that's what I'm going to be sharing with your audience.

Desiree Petrich (02:22.318)
really excited and I found myself going through some of these words that could be seen as skills like confidence or articulation or what else did I write? Trust. Is it trust that's building our ability to do this? What are some of those skills that are helping us to have some of those, hopefully not life or death conversations, but some of those hard conversations that we find ourselves having?

Scott Tillema (02:42.962)
Right, and that's it. I hope that nobody in your audience is having a crisis or hostage negotiation. That should not be the case, but all of us should be having difficult conversations. This is how we get more in our lives. As a pro-negotiator, I know there's power in asking questions, ask these questions, and people don't even want to ask, we're afraid to hear the word no. But I think that at its core, the skills that I think are most important are the skills of communication and connection. And...

Again, people just kind of attribute this to, well, I communicate all the time, I'm good at it because I do it all the time, not necessarily the case. And the idea of connection, if we want influence, and that's what I want to drill down on with you audience, if we want influence, influence begins with connection. And connection begins with a dialogue. Can we sit down and talk to somebody, listen to somebody who's different than we are?

And I think that's a skill that is being diminished in today's society where it's easy to unfollow you, mute you, block you, cancel you so I don't have to hear what you have to say. Can we even hear views that are different from our own without going into a meltdown mode of being triggered and out of control? I think sitting with someone and creating a real dialogue of curiosity and interest.

allows us to create that connection, which allows us to have influence with the person that we're sitting with. So it's a fairly easy process, but how do we go from one to the next to the next? And I think that when we get focused on communication connection, we can do anything we want. You become incredibly powerful. I'm teaching my kids right now, emotional intelligence, how to communicate, how to connect. And I tell them, you can go to any field and be successful. If you're dealing with people at any level, you're going to be successful in doing this.

So I'll probably get into a little bit more of the eight skills of active listening, which is super foundational in hostage and crisis negotiation. I was trained by the FBI in 2007, and I was one of their instructors for many years at the FBI Chicago Field Office, 40 hour hostage and crisis negotiation course, which is awesome. And as one of the non-federal agents, one of the few non-federal agents that got to teach as part of this class,

Scott Tillema (04:57.384)
I can be a little bit more critical and say, you know what, I see things differently. You know, have we considered this? Have we considered that? And not to say that this is making me a thought leader, but it really challenged me to say, am I just following what somebody is telling me that we have to teach? Or can I look at that from fresh eyes and say, okay, this is important, but is there something more or something different? So foundationally, eight skills of active listening, that is at the core of every negotiation course. We gotta have that.

But really I go deeper into that to say, all right, communication is more than that. Are we mindful of not what we say, but how we say it? I mean, your delivery creates a real feeling. Are we mindful of the non-verbals? Because way back when we communicated on the phone, but now it's so common, we communicate in video chat, we see each other. Are we aware of what we see and how powerful that is? So those are a couple of elements of communication that sometimes get overlooked. And coming from the world where every word matters,

how you say every word matters. When you say every word matters, you become very critical and very, very aware of the words we use and how we communicate. And that's something I enjoy pouring into my audiences.

Desiree Petrich (06:12.44)
So with hostage negotiation, I can imagine you have a very short window of time to build trust because you're essentially meeting this person for the first time. That probably looks a little bit different than say a workplace with two employees. I have multiple teams right now. I'm working with two employees who are butting heads and the trust was there and then the trust got broken and maybe one of these individuals or both of the individuals aren't willing to sit down and have that hard conversation.

What would you say to those individuals? It comes down to self-awareness, a willingness to change, a willing to look at things from a different perspective, right? We can kind of talk about all those different pieces of it. But if you're giving some tough love with the unique perspective that you say you have, what are you saying to these individuals to say, here's why it's important that you take the first step?

Scott Tillema (06:57.298)
Yeah, I would first ask them, what is it you want here? Because I found that in these tough negotiations, sometimes people are unclear in what they actually want. So let's sit down with them and ask them, do you have a goal to create a better working condition? Is this important to you or truly would you rather work in a place where it's uncomfortable or have a relationship where it's uncomfortable? And

The sad reality is I think for some people, they thrive on that. To say, maybe they won't ever acknowledge it out loud, but some people thrive on being miserable and complaining about stuff. We all know people like this. So it's not far-fetched to say, but I think we begin by saying, what's your goal here? What do we really want to accomplish? What's important to you with this? Because sometimes we get so caught up in this back and forth, well, they said this, they were disrespectful, they shouldn't say, and we're caught in this moment to moment,

transactions, it's tough to step back and get the 30,000 foot view of saying, I really just want to be respected in the workplace. All right, cool. So if this is a driver to you, tell me more about that. Well, I feel like I'm being treated unfairly or I'm not getting the recognition or nobody cares about me. I need more empathy or the autonomy, the freedom to make my own decisions, whatever that respect driver might be for them. Let's drill down on that conversation with them first and ask them, OK,

What would that look like? How do we get there? And what are you willing to give to get to that point? Because we all expect that everybody's gonna cater to us, but to open up the conversation and say, you might have to give something here. If you wanna own a business, you better be investing your time and money to make that happen. It doesn't just happen. So open the door to what are you willing to give? And I think that if we can get beyond the...

that back and forth and just being in the moment and allow them to see what it is we really want, then we can start to explore what's possible. And I firmly believe that the best negotiators believe in what is possible. Even though we know where we are, we might know where it's being revealed where we wanna go. We don't try, we don't even take the first steps, because we don't know how to get there. The path is unclear. And sometimes it requires them to, if I reach out my hand, would you take my hand?

Scott Tillema (09:20.39)
and allow me to guide you with this and say, I'm willing to do what it takes to get there. So I think just the clarity on what is it you want here. And if we're in a workable space where two people both want to get to a better place, then we start having the dialogue of, all right, what's preventing us from being there? What got us here in the first place? And are we willing to maybe forgive and move forward? And sometimes it's hard for people. It's hard for them to let go.

of the past to focus on what we could have in the future. And I know that, you know, in these moments where we're doing this in a SWOT crisis, it's tough because people are emotional. They're upset about whatever is going on. It's tough for them to say, I'm able and willing to let go of this because I know where I'm going next.

Desiree Petrich (10:10.862)
I've been thinking a lot about the word cyclical. Are we thinking about trust in that way where if it's broken, can it be rebuilt? Can we start back from the top? Can we let go of the past and start again fresh? Do you have any tools or recommendations to how to speak that into someone else? Someone who's maybe a little bit more stubborn? I mean, I'm guessing you do. You've probably worked with them a lot. But what are some of the actual phrases you would say to get someone to come out of that moment to moment thinking?

and pull back a little bit to actually start to see the big picture of what's possible.

Scott Tillema (10:42.952)
Well, I think that first of all, we're going to let them know that we're not going to start back at the top. It's not going to be how it used to be. If trust is broken, we now need to create a new thing here that I think we long for what has been because it's comfortable. Like we want that comfort. So we need to tell them this might be uncomfortable. Are you willing to step into discomfort here?

and remind them that we can't go back to how it used to be. If in a relationship trust is broken, we want to go back to how it used to be because we enjoyed that peace and that comfort. But we can create a new trust. We can create a new relationship with that same person if we choose to. And we can ask, know, are you willing to do this? Are you choosing to do this knowing that it's going to be different?

Are you willing to invest the time it takes to rebuild the relationship? So, so many people want this immediate gratitude, like it's happening now and social media is not helping the situation in 2025. Our attention spans, what, like three seconds or something like this. We want it now. Trust doesn't happen right now. And we try and build that through rapport, through empathy, through active listening, through the techniques of influence. But ultimately it's going to take time.

And I think that it's also okay to say that we can move forward with someone even if we don't have a lot of trust. And this is what really bothers some people in the negotiation space. When we're talking pure negotiation, they say, I'm not going to negotiate with this person if I don't trust them. And they'll say, well, I can't if I don't trust them. And I will tell them 100 % of the people that I've negotiated with in a SWOT context, there wasn't any trust because

Desiree Petrich (12:37.42)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Tillema (12:38.106)
I'm out here on my side, we have an entry team that can kick down the door and go in with lethal rounds, with less lethal rounds, with dogs, with snipers and tasers and tear gas. That can be kind of a scary prospect for some people. And on the other side, they could have a gun, a knife, a hostage be threatening harm. Is that a low trust situation? A lot of times, yes. And sometimes these people are already not big fans of law enforcement because of historical factors on their side.

So can we negotiate in a no trust or a low trust situation? Yes, of course. And we do it all the time. But we don't need trust to be there to start that conversation and ask them, are you willing to engage in a dialogue? Even though we acknowledge that trust isn't there yet. Are you willing to listen? Even though I'm going to acknowledge the trust isn't there yet. So we don't need to pretend and say, yeah, you know, we trust each other or we're getting there. Let's just be honest. Right now, there isn't trust. Okay.

And I think that sometimes just the truth and acknowledgement of what is can be really powerful for people to say, well, you're right. And I think those two words right now, that's the magic sauce right there. That's the phrase you can add to anything because it's easy to judge somebody. This person's a bad employee. How many people say that? You know, this person sucks at their job. Okay. It's easy to be judgmental, but now add the words right now to that phrase. Next time you're being judgmental, this person's bad at their job right now.

It immediately changes your mindset to say, not only do you have an opportunity to change that, but in a leadership role, you have an obligation to change that. Go get to work, figure out what's going on and how do we improve them? And sometimes it's just those words right now that give us the mindset that I can turn the page, that I'm not stuck in this dark place forever. We're not in a broken trust. I won't have a relationship ever again. Things are really tough right now. It just reminds them.

Desiree Petrich (14:24.683)
Uh-huh.

Scott Tillema (14:35.272)
We're going to turn that page and there's a new chapter coming if you're willing to take those steps forward.

Desiree Petrich (14:41.898)
You said the word leader in there. This podcast is specifically for new or aspiring managers, leaders. If they're not one of the two in the conflict, if they are seeing this conflict, they're seeing the toxicity, they're seeing the things that are happening around them because of the conflict, what's the recommendation you're giving them as an outside member to help to maybe deal with some of this conflict, to help the individuals negotiate it?

Scott Tillema (15:08.818)
Yeah, first question is to them, do you want your job to be easier or harder? And if the answer is I want my job to be harder, then I want you to ignore the situation. I want you to be aware there's a crisis here and I want you to ignore it because you want your job to be hard. If it's a problem now, wait, just wait to see what happens because then comes the physical fight, then comes the lawsuit, then comes the complaint, you're being sued, the company's being sued.

You as a leader are responsible to the organization. You're not responsible to yourself. The individual contributors are kind of responsible to themselves. As a supervisor, manager, leader, you are now responsible to the organization and they're going to hold you accountable if you knew this or reasonably should have known this. So if you want your job in your life to be a little bit easier, the first thing you're going to do is start to take action. And maybe that's going to be

to have a conversation with these folks or their supervisors if there's a chain of command issue. let's say that they're your direct reports. Let's have a conversation and see if there's awareness there with the people involved. And I think one-to-one is probably the correct first step rather than sitting down for a mediation before you know what's going on. Your power is information and options. You're not gonna get that with the two of them sitting there together. So let's start one-to-one figure out, understand the problem so we know what it is first, then we're gonna try and solve it.

And just that mindset right there, you're going to sit down with them one-on-one and learn what the problem is. We're going to be curious. We're going to ask questions and figure out what's going on. And it starts with, are you aware there's an issue here? Are you aware that your behavior with so-and-so or with the team or with everybody you interact with might be construed as negative? It might be abrasive. Do you have awareness that how you communicate is problematic, that it's aggressive or whatever the issue is and bring this to their attention?

One of my mentors, Dr. George Colereezer talks about putting the fish on the table. And that's what this is to say, there is an issue. If we take this fish and hide the problem under the table, it's going to stink. Put the fish on the table and have the conversation and let's learn what's, what's going on. Learn what the irritation is. Learn what the problem is from both sides and resist the urge to problem solve. When we start problem solving too early, we run into issues.

Scott Tillema (17:29.202)
We want the problem to go away, so we try to problem solve. Listen to that person. Have some empathy. Try and figure out what's going on first, both sides. And then once you have a clear understanding, let's sit down with my trusted managerial team, my leaders, and say, here's what I have. Here's what I've learned on both parts. We don't need to solve it right away unless it requires immediate intervention, of course. But we have a good strategy, a good thought, a good plan. Now let's figure out how we can implement this.

And we don't need to race into it. Let's make sure we do it right. And if you want your life to be easier, we're gonna get this resolved. And maybe it's not resolved perfectly, but we get into a spot where at least we can move forward in a professional space. They don't need to be best friends. They need to be able to function professionally in the work environment.

Desiree Petrich (18:16.173)
would you say is the number one question that you get asked in your work of speaking to companies about this? What's one of the questions I haven't asked yet that you find yourself answering over and over again?

Scott Tillema (18:27.4)
Where do I start? Like where do I begin this? And I think that so many people, just get overwhelmed. Like they feel it's on their shoulders or they're in it themselves and they want a resolution. I think that we all know how good it would feel if we got out of conflict. A lot of people don't enjoy being in conflict. We know how good it would feel to get out and people just, well, where do I begin?

How do I get started? And my best thought on this is you can learn all these skills on how to be a good listener, on how to deliver the message, on understanding the psychology and mindset of conflict, all good things. And these are things that you learn and then skills you can do. But I think above all of that is the concept of the choice of getting involved to resolve this around the principle of is going to take courage. It's going to take courage to do this.

you might be uncomfortable. We fear the unknown. We don't want to go into places that we don't know what's happening next. We value the certainty of knowing what's coming up and to take that first step is really tough for people. So I say it's a mindset, it's a choice that is going to take courage. And are you willing to take a step in the presence of fear? We don't wait till fear is gone or till we feel comfortable and you

when there is discomfort, when there is fear, are you willing to take that step? And that's courage, that we're going to do that. And that could be as simple as acknowledging, hey, there is a problem here. I am struggling with something. Do you have feedback for me? Or sharing with somebody, there's an issue that needs to be discussed. And just acknowledging that piece right there, that's the start that we need. We're beginning the conversation.

Desiree Petrich (20:07.47)
What?

Desiree Petrich (20:20.984)
you're sharing your vulnerability with people that you maybe need a little bit of help to move forward. Yeah.

Scott Tillema (20:26.482)
That's it. And that's hard. That's hard to say, hey, I'm struggling right now. And the truth is if you're struggling, people are probably seeing it. And maybe they're lacking the courage to say, hey, I can tell something's up. I just don't know what it is. That takes courage just to acknowledge it. But for someone to say, hey, I really need help, that's okay because the people around you probably are aware of this too. And more than you know, you've got people who are willing to help you.

Desiree Petrich (20:56.942)
Well, I told Scott before we hit record how excited I am to hear his keynote. Like I said, we've been friends for a long time, but I am really looking forward to hearing what you have to say even more so in depth on this topic. So if you want to get tickets to the Intentional Leader Summit, check out the link in the show notes. Make sure you go follow Scott on LinkedIn and all the different types of social media. And I can't wait for you to get to meet him in person. I haven't even met him in person yet. So I'm also very excited about that. Scott, I have one last question. I know you don't have a book because we've talked about this, but is there a book or specific author

or any type of resource that people are wanting to hear more prior to getting to hear you speak at the Intentional Leaders Summit, is there one you recommend?

Scott Tillema (21:34.816)
I recommend all there's so many books. I mentioned George Coleree's earlier, so I'll plug his book, Hostage at the Table, one of my favorites for leaders. He leads an incredible leadership program in Lausanne, Switzerland through IMD Business School. Beyond a Reason, another great negotiation book by Dan Shapiro at Harvard. Those are some of my favorites. If you like this and you want to hear more, first of all,

come to the event, come to the conference. But I've got a TED Talk out there, The Secrets of Hostage Negotiators. You can find that on YouTube if you need 18 more minutes of some of the good stories of success and some of the stories where it didn't turn out so good. You can hear a few of those stories from my work as a SWAT negotiator on YouTube at The Secrets of Hostage Negotiators.

Desiree Petrich (22:25.294)
I will link it in the show notes too so everyone can find it really easily. But Scott, thank you so much for your time. I learned a lot during this conversation, especially as my job is to help facilitate some of these conversations between team members who are having some of these troubles. So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. I can't wait to see you at the conference.

Scott Tillema (22:42.024)
We'll see you there.