How to Use Working Genius to Boost Team Performance | Lessons from Patrick Lencioni |Tessa Kampen

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 Unlock better team communication and self-awareness with the Working Genius framework. In this episode, we break down the 6 types and how understanding your genius can change the way you lead and collaborate.

 What if understanding how you work best could completely transform how your team works together?

If you're a new manager trying to lead with confidence, delegate effectively, and reduce frustration on your team, the Working Genius model by Patrick Lencioni might be the missing link. Tessa Kampen joins me for a breakdown of all six types—Wonder, Invention, Discernment, Galvanizing, Enablement, and Tenacity—and why knowing your genius (and your team’s) can instantly improve communication, morale, and productivity.

We also dive into how this framework helps eliminate guilt, reduces judgment on your team, and gives you the language to advocate for what lights you up at work.

By the time you finish listening, you’ll discover:

• How to identify your Genius, Competency, and Frustration—and why it matters
• Why teams struggle to execute great ideas—and what to do about it
• What to say when someone’s working style drives you just a little nuts

 new manager tips, leadership podcast, leadership development, team leadership
 first-time manager, leadership mindset, how to delegate tasks
,how to stop micromanaging and build trust, developing executive presence for career growth, managing workplace conflict effectively
 Pain-point keywords: imposter syndrome in leaders

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Coachin...

Transcript

Desiree Petrich (00:03.434)
Okay, time to discover your working geniuses and frustrations, not only to discover what they are, but to truly understand what it is that they can do for you in the workplace. So today, Tessa and I read The Six Types of Working Genius by Patrick Lynchoni so that you don't have to. And we are going to go through all of the different pieces of it, the things that have impacted us the most. And I personally think the piece that inspires me most with this is to see the groups that I've worked with.

and the impact that it can have on their communication and the way that they work, their job descriptions going forward, all the things. So I'm really excited to dive into this with you, Tessa. But first off, let's just do a quick recap of what the geniuses are.

Tessa Kampen (00:47.967)
Okay, yeah, I let me just say as well, what I loved about this book was that it really spoke to that burnout and frustration part and how some of us could be sitting here right now and we're gonna go through this model. But some of you may be sitting here right now thinking that you're just terrible at your job. But we're hoping that by the end of this session that you're gonna realize that it may just be that you're in the wrong part of the process, right? That you're doing the wrong thing. So hopefully this will shed some insight for you.

Desiree Petrich (00:56.152)
Mm-hmm.

Tessa Kampen (01:17.953)
Okay, so you wanna, oh, go ahead.

Desiree Petrich (01:18.014)
And I guess, yeah, was gonna say one more thing. So when I first read this book and I started to facilitate it, there was topics around guilt and judgment, which at first I was kind of like, where would like that doesn't even make any sense. Where could that possibly come in? And by the time I finished reading that book, I had so much weight lifted off my shoulders of things that I have been guilty of for 10 plus years. It was insane. And judgment is the piece that I actually find most.

comes away from the group trainings that I do. People realize the expectations that they have for other people match what they expect of themselves. And we just talked about this in an earlier episode, but it really is amazing when you see what people are good at. You can stop expecting things from them that they're not. And it really does just create this. I don't know. It lifts this weight off of your shoulders of constantly needing something from someone who could never give it to you and something from yourself that you could never.

Tessa Kampen (02:12.512)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (02:15.745)
truly give yourself, so.

Tessa Kampen (02:17.633)
It's like you can breathe again, right? Like I agree when I share this, I feel like all of sudden the room just their shoulders drop and they're like, huh, you're telling me I don't have to be good at this? And then of course we say, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it. Like you may not still do this thing, right? Again, I look at the leader. I'm not saying that your team can come to you and say, Tessa said I don't have to wonder anymore because I'm not good at it. That's not what I'm saying. But.

Desiree Petrich (02:31.542)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (02:40.717)
Well, now that we've sufficiently put a lot of pressure on the abilities of this particular framework, we can go through it. I purposely didn't read this book for six months after I bought it. It sat on the bookshelf behind me because I knew that the second I read it, I was going to fall in love with it just because it's Patrick Lincione and I tend to do that with his material. But when I finally read it, I'm so glad I did. So let's start with Wonder Tessa. Why don't you start? And I'm going to add on.

Tessa Kampen (02:47.219)
Yes!

Desiree Petrich (03:09.645)
since you're our guest master here.

Tessa Kampen (03:09.909)
Yeah, so the gift of wonder, and we're gonna call this a gift, we're gonna call this a genius, we're gonna call this a strength, right? Something that you absolutely love to do is if I can just summarize it really succinctly, I would say it's that big picture question asker in your life. It's that person who just loves to ask those questions. They get joy about thinking about that bigger picture and what's possible for them.

And you notice them in the room. Like right away I have someone in my mind that I'm thinking of who's always, you know, I look at him in our board meetings just waiting for his question. They just, they love thinking about the bigger picture and they love to ask questions.

Desiree Petrich (03:54.338)
Yeah, so think of some of the questions like, why are we doing this? Is this the best way we're gonna reach our potential? Is this truly gonna help us or is it gonna hurt us? Just full on questions. They don't even necessarily have an answer. They just know that there's probably more not being said and they can't get it out of their mind. They're in the clouds, their head is up thinking big picture, what can we do about this? And almost feel the responsibility to ask the question.

Tessa Kampen (04:24.734)
And it usually comes in response to something around them, right? So they're responding to their environment. So whether they're seeing a gap inside of the organization or they're seeing something out in the market space and then they're like, well, what about this? Or I wonder if we were to do that. And, you know, those of you who are listening, sometimes you may get annoyed by that person. Let's be honest, right? You're like, why are you even asking that question? Let's just get things done.

But it's really important that you listen to this person because when we don't allow space for wonder on the team and we quickly move to just get things done, which I feel is the bulk of the population, we're really skipping a crucial part of the process of work, but we're also skipping a crucial part of our team. And so, maybe we're gonna touch on that later, but let's not get annoyed with that.

person who loves to wonder and ask those questions because they're really responding and they're saying, how can we make this workplace or how can we make this product or how can we make these people even better? That's really what they're doing is they're really challenging us to do something different and bigger and better.

Desiree Petrich (05:35.403)
Yeah. Okay, great. I'm taking notes here because I want to get through who are these individuals and what are these archetypes. And then I have so many more thoughts on this, but let's pop over to the next one. So invention.

Tessa Kampen (05:43.905)
you

Tessa Kampen (05:48.265)
Yeah, that invention is probably the most visible genius that we see. And they're that person who is saying, ooh, I have an idea. What about this? So they're responding to the question that that wanderer asked, and they're coming in with a solution. They're coming in with ideas. They're just throwing those, give them a whiteboard, and they are loving it. Don't give me a whiteboard. Don't give me a blank whiteboard. I'm not loving it, okay?

Invention actually falls into my frustration, but these people just love to invent and generate new ideas, really challenge status quo and disrupt what's going on. How would you describe it?

Desiree Petrich (06:30.805)
Yeah, and no, that's great. And I, one of my favorite topics around working genius is what do these individuals crave and what crushes them? And invention, I think, is one of the most important ones because it's not something that we're typically allowing in the workplace. Because what someone with invention craves is the ability to have no parameters, to not be stuck inside a box, to be able to think about things like the world is their oyster and they are crushed by these

Tessa Kampen (06:39.809)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Petrich (07:00.871)
lines that they need to stay within. And the reason I think it's so interesting for invention is because a lot of the teams that I work with, they are lacking a lot of this. And I think whether it's because they're truly lacking it or because these people have been told that there's not enough time or there's not enough money or there's not enough people behind them to get behind their ideas, you know, they might be beaten down a little bit. And so these inventors

Tessa Kampen (07:10.901)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Petrich (07:27.693)
who are essentially trying to disrupt the environment by saying, I have a new way we can do this. And I'm really, you know, potentially excited about it. And then they, they're told that it's not the time. Same thing with wonder, you know, they might say this question isn't important right now, or we don't have time to think about this question. So I don't know about if it's true for you, Tessa, but in a lot of teams that I work with, these are the two that are kind of the ones that are most stifled, because they're not necessarily the ones that are enjoyed in the workplace.

Tessa Kampen (07:37.898)
Yes.

Tessa Kampen (07:51.425)
you

Desiree Petrich (07:56.502)
especially when we think things need to be getting done.

Tessa Kampen (07:59.197)
Yeah, well, that's, think that's the thing is we only think about getting things done, right? We don't really think about the entire process of work and projects. And we think like, you throw out, throw out any idea and let's run with it. And that's not always the case, you know, when we have someone who absolutely loves to generate ideas, like someone with invention and they have this creative brain and you're right, when you're, you know, when you're stifling that, when you're not allowing space for people to do that,

Well, maybe eventually they say, my ideas aren't welcomed here, so I'm just gonna shut up. I'm not gonna talk. But in sessions, maybe you've noticed this, when I talk about invention and when I talk about the importance of allowing people with invention to speak up, because like you, it's usually a small amount of people on my maps, they just light up. It's like we've just given them permission to bring their ideas to the table and we've said to the room, create space for that.

Like if we don't create space for ideation, which is that first phase, the WI, then the rest of the process of work is actually going to fail or it's going to be not as good as it could be. you know, allowing them. And I'm just going to say people with invention, they're usually not crushed if you say that's not a good idea. They're crushed if you say don't bring any more ideas, right? Like we don't want to hear it. But I've noticed that

They're okay if you're like, that wasn't a great idea. Because they'll be like, okay, I got 10 more. Let me just give you the other 10. So, you know, they don't seem to care, but they want to be heard.

Desiree Petrich (09:29.462)
Yes.

Desiree Petrich (09:35.598)
Yes, absolutely. And this next one, I think, is the hardest for people to understand. So we've had wonder, we have invention and discernment. This is the one that's the hardest to understand. It's one of my geniuses. so I have I'm 31 years old and I'm just starting to understand why it's been so frustrating for me in certain situations because well, why don't you take a test on what is discernment?

Tessa Kampen (09:43.233)
I'm

Tessa Kampen (09:59.753)
No, you tell us. You have it so explain to us what it's like to have the gift of discernment.

Desiree Petrich (10:04.937)
Yes. So discernment is ultimately this gut feeling of knowing whether something is right or wrong or whether it will work or whether it won't. For example, if someone comes to you and asks for advice, you don't have to hem and haw. You kind of almost immediately have this, well, I know what would be right for you. This is why I love doing disk and strengths and working genius all at the same time, because you have to know what is your communication style so you can get across that discernment.

well without pushing someone in the wrong direction. Because what we don't want as someone with discernment is for someone to question us or to someone to not trust that we know what we're doing or to say, why do you think that's good idea? Prove it. Give me research and data as to why. And I'm like, I didn't do the research and data. I just have this gut feeling as to why I know I'm right. And so it's a very internal thing that's happening. And it comes time.

Tessa Kampen (10:36.234)
Hmm.

Desiree Petrich (11:02.399)
sometimes come across as a little bit pushy is the word, but it's because the internal thought process has already happened. I'm not needing to process it out loud. What would you add to that, Melba?

Tessa Kampen (11:12.097)
Yeah. Yeah. So it's my third and I actually, I enjoy that like discernment piece. And I find when I'm explaining it to people, especially those who may be faith-based, they will, because we're told to have discernment, right? We're told in like the people who are wise have discernment. And I have found that when I'm speaking to faith-based people, they struggle with this. like, well, I have discernment.

Desiree Petrich (11:30.178)
Mm-hmm.

Tessa Kampen (11:42.165)
Right? The Lord speaks to me or whatever it may be. And I'm like, that's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about that kind of discernment. We're talking about, you know, if I gave you any subject and I came to you and I said, what color should I paint my house? I think Pat uses that example in one of his podcast episodes. You know, if I invited you to my house and I said, what color do you think I should paint my house? You could give me an answer. Not because you know how I live, not because you're really great with

paint colors, but that's the type of discernment that we're talking about where you can just look at a situation and connect the dots without actually knowing what that situation is about. It's this intuitive way of just saying, I don't know why, but I think this is the best way. And I think this genius in our team members is probably the most skipped genius because we

always want proof. A lot of us want to see the proof. We want to see the data. We want to see what you've done. Show me your credentials, right? Like you go for a job, they want to see your resume. Well, you don't have a resume when I'm asking you to use your discernment. All you have is that gut feeling, that very good judgment that says, I can't prove anything to you, but I just don't think this is the right thing you should be doing.

Desiree Petrich (13:04.013)
Yeah. And I'm going to get more into this discernment piece of it later, but I think that when we're missing this piece, because we had the ideation, which is the wonder and invention, and then we have the activation, this discernment piece of it is they are, yes, reacting to things that someone's saying. Someone's asking for them for advice and they're discerning things. But I think sometimes I discern things without permission. No one asked me a question and I'm just trying to

Tessa Kampen (13:30.719)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (13:33.514)
whether I think it's right or why I think it's right or wrong. And that can come across as really aggressive and unwanted sometimes. So I think not only is it skipped, but I think it's probably oftentimes misjudged or frowned upon too. So when we were talking about something like wonder and invention getting smushed and just being bullied out of you or ignored enough that the person doesn't find any value in it, this could be said for every single genius.

Tessa Kampen (13:39.083)
Yeah.

Tessa Kampen (13:49.77)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Petrich (14:02.997)
I think that this one more so than any, because I started to question my own discernment because people would question my discernment. So I wasn't seeing it as a strength because when other people start to ask questions and I couldn't answer them, I'm like, well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't actually know what I think is right. And then you start to question your gut. But we're getting into the weeds on this. just that's something that I've been thinking a lot about lately is.

Tessa Kampen (14:11.723)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (14:30.369)
you know, how can you even trust your own discernment, let alone trust someone else's?

Tessa Kampen (14:35.135)
Yeah, and we're not gonna go too deep because we do wanna get through these, but I think that's why I'm so passionate about teams and organizations understanding the working genius, because then you can use language and you can say, I'm discerning this right now. Like you can actually tell people that's what you're doing. So if you come across pushy, they're going to assume hopefully the best intent and know that that's part of your genius. That's what you do. And they can either say, you need to regulate that right now, totally unaffended and not judgmental, just fact.

You need to regulate that right now. Maybe we don't need it. Or, Desiree's just discerning and that's what her discernment, that's how it comes across, right? So once we've done that, we're still in activation and we move to galvanizing. And so galvanizing, both you and I have that as our first. So you're GD and I'm a GE. And so, you know, how does that look in your life? How do you see that show up in team members? How do you see that show up perhaps in me? How would you describe a galvanizer?

Desiree Petrich (15:34.19)
You know, when I first read it and when I started listening to the Working Genius podcast, the word that kept coming up was cheerleader. When it came to galvanizing, cheerleading like, hey, you can do this. Let's go. Let's get on board. Let's get started. And the more I thought about it, I'm an ID on the disk, and so I'm a little bit more aggressively friendly. so mine didn't necessarily come across as like rah rah cheerleader. My galvanizing came across as like the a little bit assertive coach on a track team or something where it's like, OK,

Tessa Kampen (15:40.673)
Mmm.

Tessa Kampen (16:02.276)
yeah.

Desiree Petrich (16:04.233)
stop your whining, just go. It's not gonna be as hard as you think. Like, let's just do this, get on board or get off. And so it's why I keep saying I think it's so important to know all of these different pieces about ourself because my galvanizing, which is paired with my discernment, comes across maybe a little bit more aggressive or a little more assertive or a little more harsh than with you where I find your galvanizing really upbeat and a little bit more rah rah and like you can do this and you've got this and you know,

So I'd be really curious to hear from your point of view, how you think the galvanizing comes across. Because at the end of the day, what galvanizing is, is just trying to get people to get into action, to get people to move.

Tessa Kampen (16:44.673)
Yeah, rally those troops, motivate them. And you're right, if we bring the disc scale into it, I'm an SI. So you're a DI, I'm an SI, or you're ID, I'm SI. you know, I tend to make a little more of a, not saying you're not gentle, but I'm a little more gentle at times. can lean into my D, okay? I think you and I have had that in our very first conversation, but anyway, we're not gonna go there.

Desiree Petrich (17:00.845)
you

Tessa Kampen (17:09.505)
I can definitely, I tend to be a little more gentle and getting people to move forward, right? Rallying them around those ideas. But again, when people aren't moving, then I get a little annoyed and my galvanizing may come off a little bit differently in those moments. So yeah, I think it's really important. And another key aspect to your team, if you have no one getting excited about that brilliant idea that your inventor came up with and you just discerned, well, you're not able to connect that.

to completion. And I think that's why a lot of those projects fail is this very key galvanizing piece gets missed. Either people feel like, I don't want to be that person who has to like, yay, go and do this, right? The cheerleader, as you call it. Or I also don't want to kind of tell people what to do and be forceful. So I'm just going to be quiet. And now we've got a disconnect between the thing we're going to do and actually getting it done.

Desiree Petrich (18:06.413)
Have you found that galvanizing is the most lacking genius with the teams you're working with?

Tessa Kampen (18:12.691)
It depends who I'm working with. I do find the middle phase tends to be lighter and oftentimes, depending on the industry that I'm working with, I could find a lot of galvanizers and sometimes there's like one. So I would say it's probably 60 % of the time there are less galvanizers than more.

But I have found with the teams that I work with that it's very industry specific and I do see a connection in behavior. So if it's a very task oriented team, I'm not gonna see as much galvanizers on there.

Desiree Petrich (18:53.505)
Yeah, we're gonna get back into that too, but I was just needed to ask the question. So this next one is one of my frustrations enablement. I'm gonna need you to take this one, because I don't have it.

Tessa Kampen (18:56.929)
You know.

Tessa Kampen (19:03.137)
How can I help you? Tell me how I can help you with that. Yeah, yeah. And you know what? Again, I think there's a huge connect between the S and my disk to enablement. I know quite a few people. Enablement is one of the biggest geniuses that I see on most of the teams that I work with. People, they want to help, they want to support, they're that person that is there to say, what can I do?

Desiree Petrich (19:07.745)
Yeah, exactly, I don't have that.

Tessa Kampen (19:31.873)
But you know what, I disagree a little bit and I'm just gonna, not gonna, I'm challenging Pat, but he says, you know, those of us with enablement, usually we will help people on their terms and all that stuff, but sometimes I'm like, I will help you, but not on your term because that doesn't make sense to me, right? Like I will help you, but this is how we can help you. But I do find that I am that person that raises my hand, that says yes. If I see, you know, like they're looking for volunteers and are.

school or whatnot and people aren't stepping up, I'll be like, okay, I'll go and help even though I'm like waiting a little bit. And maybe sometimes I don't really want to, but I think my enablement kicks in and it's like, just go and help them. Like just go and support.

Desiree Petrich (20:13.261)
Here's what I found with that. the enablement piece of it. And again, it's just the enabler. We often think of enablement as a bad thing because it's you're enabling someone to drink or to drink and drive or to do drugs or whatever. Enablement in this sense is not necessarily that you're allowing a bad behavior. It's just that you want to help people with what they want help with. You want to be, sometimes tend to the people pleaser individual typically has some enablement.

Tessa Kampen (20:20.918)
Yes.

Desiree Petrich (20:41.559)
But I think where you said where the enablement is, I will help you on your terms, the discernment piece of it where you can almost internalize what you know is right and wrong. I refuse to help people on on their terms without asking questions because my discernment is so strong. And I'm like, I'm not going to help you do something that I don't believe is right. I'm going to try to coach you into a better version, which is where the pushy piece comes in. And it may be received well and it may not. But.

Tessa Kampen (20:52.319)
Yeah.

Tessa Kampen (21:00.683)
Right.

Desiree Petrich (21:09.067)
I think when you said that you're not willing to necessarily help people on their terms, it's because your discernment is so high in your strengths.

Tessa Kampen (21:14.913)
comes right after that. I even thought of that. Yeah, that's probably exactly it. Thank you.

Desiree Petrich (21:17.577)
Yeah. So, okay, tenacity. We both don't have this, so we might have to bring on a third person.

Tessa Kampen (21:25.633)
You know, it's so funny because when I opened up the results, I think I shared this with you, I was so disappointed to see that tenacity fell in my frustration because, you know, I actually won a tenacity award in high school. Now it was for soccer, you know, I I love to play sports, but I remember thinking like, I get stuff done. Like I was so insulted. I can't believe that it is telling me that I, but I had to remind myself, this is not about what you can and cannot do. This isn't a competency assessment.

This is a joy and frustration assessment. And when I really get honest with myself, I do not find joy from finishing things. I get joy from helping people, supporting people, galvanizing people. I want them to finish things, right? I don't wanna be the person to always do that. So when I look at it from that lens, can I get things done? Yes, I get things done all the time. Do I love to get things done? I can understand why it falls in my frustration.

Desiree Petrich (22:22.251)
Yeah, so tenacity is just that the person who loves to check things off at the end of the day, the last 10 % of a job where they know everything is wrapped up, it all went well, maybe it's the surveys at the end of it where you feel like a job well done, tenacity is that person who really likes to finish things through till the end. I am not that person. I love to start a million projects and a million books and does it feel good when I finish? Absolutely it does. Did it take a whole heck of a lot of energy to get me to finish?

You better believe it.

Tessa Kampen (22:52.617)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. Same. But it's interesting because when I'm doing a client project, I love the T work. I love actually all of this. And those of you who are listening, if you've done your assessment or you're gonna do your assessment and maybe you're confused by the results, what I noticed as I was working with teams is that we can do every one of these and find joy from them all when they're around our geniuses. So when I'm with a team,

and I'm in that enablement and galvanizing my genius, I ask questions and I have joy. I can come up with solutions and get joy. I go home and finish their playbooks and things for them and get joy from it because it's around those two geniuses. I know it's gonna help them and that's why I'm able to do it. But give me just some T work or some W work. Probably not gonna wanna spend a lot of time there.

Desiree Petrich (23:50.594)
Yeah. And I tend to find myself talking about these geniuses based on where they are in my genius to frustration. But let's just talk for a second. There's geniuses, there's competencies, and there's frustrations. So we just went through all of them. If you're listening, you're probably connecting with one or two of them or one of them you're like, absolutely not. That is not me. And so when we're talking about geniuses, like Tessa said, we're not necessarily talking about, you good at this thing? You might be good at all six of them.

in some capacity, but it's do you find joy and energy doing them? Do you actually enjoy the process of wondering, inventing, discerning, galvanizing, enabling, or in that tenacity work that I absolutely dread? Do you find joy and energy in it?

Tessa Kampen (24:41.087)
Yeah, and I think that's where people are usually confused because they think about what they're good at. But I would challenge anyone listening to just pay attention to this week, to the tasks that you do at work, and just have a sheet of paper and write love and write frustration or drain or loathe, whatever you wanna put in that box. then write down the actual things you were doing. What were you doing when you were like, I wish I could do this all day at work? Write it down.

What were you doing when you were procrastinating or it was the end of the day and you were like, I really got to get that thing done? Those are going to give you clues perhaps into the things that you love and the things that you don't. And then go take the assessment and see if it's right.

Desiree Petrich (25:24.033)
Yeah. And the interesting thing that I constantly find about these is with the geniuses, it lights you up. It gives you energy, sustained energy. If you are able to do them for long amounts of time or even just every day, you're probably going to stay pretty happy. Happy might not be the right word, but happy at work. With the competencies, you can do them and you might even be really good at them and you might even enjoy them for a little bit. But if you're forced to do them all the time,

they're really going to start to drain your energy. You're not going to want to be doing them. You're going to start to feel like you're burdened and you're going to start to feel that burnout that we're all used to. And then there's the frustration. These are the things that even if you're good at them, like Tessa said, I can have tenacity. It's like you might have it and you might be able to muster that for a short amount of time. But if you have to do it for any length of time, you're probably going to get really frustrated. You're going to get burnt out really quickly. You're going to start to resent the job that you're doing. And

That is the piece where why it's important because I always want to come back to why is this important for you to know at work? And it's because we have to understand each other, our team members on an individual basis to understand what lights them up, what gives them joy and energy, what frustrates them, why might they be in a really bad mood? Is there something I love that they hate? Maybe we can swap tasks, maybe, you know, whatever that might look like. I talked about guilt and judgment at the beginning.

And I will just give you a quick example of each the guilt that I felt when I quit accounting after my first semester. thought I should be able to. I had gotten straight A's my entire high school career. I got into my first semester of accounting and got my first ever C's because I just did not have the tenacity and the drive to want to sit there and understand the rules and understand the regulations and where to put these things in each column. And I felt so much.

guilt around that for the longest time, not because I wanted to be an accountant and I felt like I missed my calling, but because I couldn't do it. I simply could not find the energy and muster the strength to power through. And I've powered through almost everything in my life. So I was like, what happened? And the second I read this book and started to understand these concepts, that guilt went away. That weight lifted off my shoulders of I don't need to feel guilty about not being able to do something that was in my frustration. I was designed

Tessa Kampen (27:27.873)
Mm.

Desiree Petrich (27:48.819)
that way and it just felt really good to be able to take that weight off of my shoulders. Do you have any examples when it comes to guilt?

Tessa Kampen (27:56.661)
Well, I was gonna say this is a really great takeaway for our listeners because, know, I think of your team, think of your team right now. There might be someone on your team that you're looking at and you're judging them, right? The fundamental attribution error is what they talk about in the book, but you're judging them based on what you see. So maybe in your board meetings, they never bring an idea or when they do, they're terrible. Or maybe when they come to a end of a project,

You you see that it takes them three days when it should have taken three hours. And I think the takeaway here is that we can't judge what's going on because with this insight, when you understand that maybe that team member is just put in a role where they're doing something that doesn't tap into that thing that they love. And you know, we had the previous episode that we've talked about about love plus work, where if you don't love something, you're also not gonna show up and bring sort of that energy.

into that space. So if I don't love coming up with ideas and then I have to go into board meetings every week and I'm the idea person, just think about the impact of that also on my mental health and how I'm now talking to myself, right? And so I think as team members, we need to understand that we're all gonna have those different things that we love. And because I have E and G and I love those things, I used to feel that way in rooms as well.

you know, where, hey, Tessa, do you have a thought on this? And sometimes I'd be like, ooh, I actually don't even have it. Like I would feel stupid because I didn't have anything to add because the wondering and the inventing was not something that just came naturally to me. And maybe the topic wasn't something that really helped other people. So again, I'm tuning out, right? Because if it's not helping people, I'm not really interested.

But I think it just allows us to walk into a room and say, hey, I am not great at this. This does not bring me joy. And I found freedom in just that. Freedom in I'm going to show up today and I'm going to bring my best ideas, but just so you know, they may not be great. Or I know this thing has to get finished. I am not that great at finishing things. And being able to advocate for myself. Is there anyone else in the room that would actually get joy from this?

Tessa Kampen (30:17.387)
I'll just give a quick example, because I don't want to take too much time, but I had led a vision mission core values workshop for our school, got that all completed, and then we moved to a strategic plan. And they said, Tessa, we want you to lead the strategic plan. And I was like, okay, sure. And then I went home and I was like, that is not in my wheelhouse. That's not in my wheelhouse at all. And so there was someone else on our committee and I said, you know what? I actually think she would be perfect for the job. Do you mind if I ask Sam if she would be willing to lead the strategic plan?

and I'll stay on the committee. And the moment I reached out to her, like her answer could not have been more perfect. Like she was just like, I would love to lead that. I already know how I'm gonna put the, like put all the information in. Like she was just a rock star and she's been incredible. Like the stuff she puts out, the invention, she asks the right questions. And I actually know her working genius, cause I did some work with her team. So I knew right away that there was someone on the team that could do a better job than me.

And so even though everyone around the table thought that I was the perfect person, I knew I wasn't the perfect person. And that's what this does is you can then go, I'm gonna be vulnerable here and say, you have the right person, you have the wrong person for this role. I think Desiree needs to take the lead on this. And that's what this does is it gives you language without guilt to say, I'm not great at that. And let's have someone else take the lead.

Desiree Petrich (31:39.758)
Yeah, it allows us to utilize each other without that competitive spirit of thinking I need to be able to do it all so that I can be irreplaceable to the team. It's I'm going to be really hard to replace on this team because I gave other people opportunities to shine in areas where they really thrived. And I didn't struggle and get frustrated and burnout trying to do something that I knew someone else could have done better, but I was just holding it so close to the vest because I was scared.

to lose the opportunity. These are all things I've heard from other people as to why they don't work into their geniuses is the fear, the competitiveness, the distrust, whatever. But it's one of my favorite topics to talk about with Judgment. And you were talking about the board meeting. When I go into a board meeting, I sit there with my discernment hat on and they probably think like, can you just like one of our ideas for the love of God, please just like don't fight everything.

Tessa Kampen (32:33.537)
One more.

Desiree Petrich (32:35.371)
And I'm sitting there thinking, this is my job. I'm a discerner. I'm supposed to discern the ideas. It's that brainstorming trifecta of someone asks a question, someone comes up with an idea, and then I come in and I question that idea to make sure I'm the devil's advocate and all the things. But I'm sure the other people at the table are like, who invited this lady? Why is she here? And so that comes to the judgment piece of it too, is if we can understand why people respond to things in the way that they do, it just allows us to create so much more

Tessa Kampen (32:53.973)
Hahaha!

Desiree Petrich (33:06.209)
patience in ourselves for them and understanding of why they're doing the things that they do. And I have tried to get a lot better about that, especially with my husband. He is a W, so he has wonder, which is at the very top, the head in the clouds, constantly asking questions like, if we had a food truck, what would be on our food truck? Just no plans to do anything with it, but constantly sitting there wondering questions. And then he has tenacity. The other end of the spectrum was.

Tessa Kampen (33:07.201)
Yeah.

Tessa Kampen (33:17.696)
Yeah.

Tessa Kampen (33:30.805)
Yes.

Desiree Petrich (33:31.574)
His nose is to the ground. He's getting stuff done. He really loves being able to check things off. And so he's constantly flipping between these two extremes of wanting to get things done and then asking questions with absolutely no need to ever do anything about it. And for me, being the activator, being in the activation phase, I'm like, well, let's like let's do some movement. Let's talk about this. And he's like, well, no, I was just wondering.

Tessa Kampen (33:54.442)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (33:54.658)
And so now we have that language and he's not a self-development type personality at all. But we talk about this particular. Yeah. Yeah. And he it's so funny because it's we now have language to put around this. And so the judgment of, know, why are you never acting on any of the ideas that you have or the questions that you ask? It's because it's not really the intent. It's he simply has questions that don't require an answer.

Tessa Kampen (34:00.223)
I was thinking our husbands would get along really well. Same people.

Tessa Kampen (34:20.64)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (34:22.557)
And it's just helped us a lot and it helps so many teams that I've worked with, I can't even tell you.

Tessa Kampen (34:28.767)
Yeah, I know I think we can talk about this topic for hours. But you made me think like maybe if we're going to wrap this up, you know, for someone that's listening right now and they're really feeling stuck, like I really hope that some of these stories resonate with you and you start to see yourself and maybe some team members in there. But I think one of the biggest takeaways I want people to take away from this episode, or even if they go and do the assessment, is that don't think you're bad at your job. Like you may not be bad at your job, but even if you're sitting

at a workplace right now and you're thinking like, maybe you wanna quit or maybe you wanna leave or you're looking, like I think the first step would be take this assessment and see if you're just in the wrong role. Like really think about, know, I do love it here, but maybe this job isn't for me. Well, maybe it has nothing to do with the job not being for you. Maybe you're just doing the wrong kind of work for your genius. And I think that for me was the biggest takeaway of this book. And that for me is always the biggest takeaway that I want teams to leave my sessions with.

is that it's not that you may not be the right person for this place or this job, but your genius just may not be leveraged in a way that it should be.

Desiree Petrich (35:37.961)
Yeah, I do want to wrap this up, but I am working with a team right now where this individual, we were talking about how things can get stifled and she was the only galvanizer on a team of either all wonder and invention or all enablement and tenacity. So two extremes and then she was right there in the middle and she felt like she could never get the one group of people to kind of like get the information down to the people who would actually do something about it. And she said, I've been here for 20 years.

Tessa Kampen (35:54.817)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (36:06.271)
After the first couple of years, I just gave up. She's like, I haven't used my galvanizing at work and I couldn't even tell you how long. And A, it broke my heart because as a galvanizer, I'm like, I know how innate of a need that is in a person to want to galvanize others. But she's now just put in her notice and go into another job. And I said, you need to have this conversation with them before you start. Say, this is my genius. This is where I see it, you know, adding value to you as a company.

Tessa Kampen (36:15.457)
Thank

Desiree Petrich (36:34.827)
here's how the language can work around it to say when I am trying to get you guys to do something and galvanize something, said, don't lose that again. Because the frustration and the burnout that you were feeling at this last job is because you stifled something that is innate in you. It is something that you are supposed to utilize and something that makes you unique or weird or whatever it is that you want to say. And so I think it's...

Tessa Kampen (36:43.328)
Yeah.

Tessa Kampen (36:55.535)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (36:58.549)
It's so important that we're having those conversations with the people that we work with and that we work for. Otherwise, they're going to start to be irrelevant to us and that's just going to cause a lot more harm than anything.

Tessa Kampen (37:08.799)
Yeah, yeah, I think this is probably one of my favorite tools out on the marketplace right now, especially because it's so relatable to work, right? Like personality styles, yes, you need to understand one another and behaviors, but when you understand work that brings people joy, you can make such a shift on teams and just watch your productivity skyrocket. You can watch

Desiree Petrich (37:19.585)
Mm-hmm.

Tessa Kampen (37:34.311)
even connections be built because now we're honoring one another for the things that we love and the things that we do well. And it just makes a world of difference on Teams. I really can't stress this enough. think, you know, if you're listening and you haven't taken this, it's a really quick 10 minute assessment, like go and take the assessment and really discover what it is that lights you up and then have those conversations as Desiree was saying, you know, with your employer and with your teams and

and take it as a team, take the assessment as a team and see where maybe the gaps are and if you can make some changes because I think again, bringing joy and love into work is the only way I think to live out our life because it's such a big part of our life.

Desiree Petrich (38:21.079)
Yeah, that's a perfect place to wrap up. I honestly could talk about this topic for, well, I do. teach eight hour workshops. So I mean, I talk about this forever. Yes, but I appreciate the insight on it, Tessa. And I love having this conversation with you. So thank you for coming on. In a future episode, Tessa and I are going to talk about how to work with people that you, I think we said that drive you nuts. I don't know if it's right to say people that you can't stand, we...

Tessa Kampen (38:26.369)
Exactly! There you go! Higher Desiree!

Tessa Kampen (38:44.993)
You know, we can use Ryan Leake's book, Complicated People. Let's just go with that.

Desiree Petrich (38:51.539)
Yeah, perfect. How to work with complicated people. And I can't wait to have that conversation with you. The number of teams that I have worked on that have given me a call and saying, hey, we're struggling. Can you help us? It's always because one or two people are just really struggling to get along. So if we can really truly figure out those interpersonal connections between individuals and how we can start to work better with those people that maybe wouldn't be our first choice of a best friend, that's going to help us in the workplace and create ripple effects that we wouldn't even know to look for.

Tessa Kampen (39:01.255)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (39:21.282)
So thank you for joining us for this episode on Working Genius. If you want to take the assessment, there is a link in the show notes for you. If you want to ask a deeper or further question after you've taken the assessment, reach out to Tessa, reach out to myself on LinkedIn. I promise we would absolutely love to help you and have a deeper conversation on this. And until next time, just remember that leadership is both a privilege and a huge responsibility and you're the boss. What are you gonna do with it?