How to Show Up Energized and Confident Again at Work | Jason Barnaby

Feeling stuck, complacent, or burned out at work? In this episode, Jason Barnaby shares how to reignite your fire, overcome fear, and create meaningful culture through intentional action.

In this episode, we're shifting gears into something every new manager and leader wrestles with,  how do you keep your spark alive when comfort zones and fear want to hold you back?

I’m joined by Jason Barnaby, Chief Fire Starter of Fire Starters Inc., who has made it his mission to help people and organizations reignite hope and torch fear. Together, we unpack what it really means to show up as the leader you want to be and how culture isn’t a top-down mandate, it’s the sum of how we each lead ourselves.

Jason shares his powerful framework (Find your fire, Fan your flame, Ignite your life), the dangers of letting “what if abouts” (those sneaky negative thoughts and doubts) keep you stuck, and why your tribe matters more than you realize. Whether you’re feeling uninspired at work, stuck in complacency, or struggling with imposter syndrome, this episode will remind you that change starts with striking just one match.

Key Takeaways

By the end of this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why the difference between being content and being complacent could make or break your leadership.
• How to overcome your “what if abouts” and start seeing possibilities instead of barriers.
• The role of intentional tribes and small actions in building momentum and reigniting your fire.

Additional Links 

Connect with Jason Barnaby on LinkedIn

Read Ideal Team Player by Patrick Lencioni

Connect With Desiree on Linkedin
Buy the book - Taking Intentional Action: How to Choose the Life You Lead

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Coachin...

Transcript

Desiree Petrich (00:02.69)
All right, friends, so we are here with Jason Barnaby. And although I don't typically read the bio of the guests that we have on here, because they're always in the show notes, I love this section of Jason's bio. So I'm gonna read it to you, because he is a tribe leader and chief fire starter for Fire Starter Inc, whose mission is to change the world one fiery heart at a time by helping individuals, teams, and corporations ignite hope and torch fear. Jason thrives in settings where he can be part of facilitating aha moments.

and the power that comes from those experiences. And I just thought it was cheeky and it made me smile and it was so specific to what it is to do. Yeah, no, it was perfect. And even your background, Firestarters Inc. strike the match. I'm so excited to dive into what all of these things mean to you, why they're so important to you. But when Jason and I were having the conversation of what do we want this conversation to sound like, to look like, what value do we want it to have, he asked three questions.

Jason (00:39.534)
That's good.

Jason (00:56.408)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Petrich (01:01.08)
Who do you want to be? How do you want to show up? And how do you close the gap? The last one's my words, not his, but how do you close the gap between who you want to be, how you want to show up, and how you actually get there? And we have redefined this conversation around culture. Culture is a top-down, really hard-to-reach thing that most of us don't feel empowered to actually be a part of. But I'll tell you this, culture is the collective result of how we show up, how we treat each other.

and how we lead ourselves. so when Jason said, how do you want to show up? I said, that's the perfect way to take this. So Jason, welcome to the podcast.

Jason (01:38.254)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have this combo.

Desiree Petrich (01:41.708)
Yeah, so tell us about Firestarters, Inc. Where did this idea come from?

Jason (01:46.806)
Yeah, it came, so I had a, had, I've had, I've.

Desiree Petrich (01:52.802)
Take two.

Jason (01:55.022)
So let's say this, I have lived a lot of life in the life I've lived. And part of that life, which I never imagined for myself, was about a 10-year stint in corporate America. I worked for a slow-moving conservative mutual insurance company, which I told people at the time that I worked there, it was the best thing about it and it was the worst thing about it. And I rode the elevator with people on a daily basis that were so

miserable. And it was a very meeting heavy culture. Like I said, super slow moving. And in fact, there was a guy that I used to ride the elevator with we used to just on Mondays, for whatever reason, we would get on the elevator at the same time, damn near every Monday for 10 years. And I would see him. And I would do the same thing every time I'm the kind of guy that gets on a crowded elevator, especially at work, and faces people.

So if you're listening to this, you're like, I hate those people. I was definitely, definitely that guy. And John was a guy who was always on the elevator with me. And I would say, John, how you doing today, man? And he would respond the same way every Monday. And he would do it just like this. He would go.

Jason (03:15.532)
Not bad for a Monday. And for 10 years, it never changed. It was always the same thing. And John represented so many of the people that work there and just so many of the people that I would see downtown kind of zombie like, you know, going through the motions. And then the other thing was I would remember distinctly, I was riding the elevator down and somebody was retiring and they literally had like the stereotypical cliched box of stuff.

that they had acquired over their lifetime and kept at their desk and they were walking out with it on their retirement day. And I remember I was riding down the elevator and there were these two women who had obviously worked together for a long time. One of them had the box and she's like, it's so exciting that you're retiring. Her friend was saying to her, like, what are you going to do? And this woman had worked there for like 35 years and and the freight and her answer just almost broke me. She said, well, I don't really know.

I guess it's time to get a life. And I thought how unbelievably sad to get to retirement age, whatever that was, I think she was 65, and to then decide that it's time to start living life and have no idea what it is that you wanted to do. And I just thought, there's gotta be more to life than this. And the other, I'll use some fire starters language, the other.

spark or the other match for me that that was struck was when I went to a it was a statewide convention for the Association of Training and Development in Indiana. And there was a breakout session about the lady schtick was like, write a book in six weeks. And I was like, there's no way you can write a book in six weeks. So I just went because I thought she was crazy. And she gave us a little

a little activity and she said, either outline your chapters or write your introduction and picture your reader. And as I was writing that I had this picture of an ember inside that I really do believe that we all have. And so many of us, this ember is like almost out. It's just kind of smoking and it's not a flame and it's not a fire. And the extinguishers

Jason (05:35.928)
that I call them are everywhere trying to put out that fire. And I thought, there's got to be a way to help people like John on the elevator and this woman who was riding down after retiring and just the people that I see. So I hired a consultant who helped me come up with this. And I'll never forget when we were in one of our sessions, she goes, well, there's your framework. And the original framework was find your fire, fan your flame, and tend your tribe because I was a big believer, still am a big believer in the people that you surround yourself with.

It has since morphed now seven years on. The first two are the same. So it's find your fire, fend your flame, and the third one is ignite your life. And so what do you need to, you know, we all have those ideas and those like one day, right? Fill in the blank. One day I'm gonna, and then, you know, like the 65 year old, we get to retirement and realize that we haven't. And that just, that breaks my heart. And I wanna, I wanna work with people who are.

courageous enough to look fear in the face and say I'm tired of being tired and staying where I am.

Desiree Petrich (06:40.736)
It's so powerful and I ask this question to people a lot. When I'm working with teams, we talk about Patrick Lincione's the ideal team player. And one of the characteristics that he talks about is hunger. Are you hungry to go somewhere, be something? Do you wanna get further faster? Do you wanna grow into something? Do you have the drive, the motivation? And it makes me a little bit sad when people say no, but I've started to ask a clarifying question because I think sometimes people say,

Jason (06:49.646)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (06:53.486)
Mm.

Jason (07:07.758)
Mm.

Desiree Petrich (07:09.41)
Well, I don't want to climb the ladder. I don't want to step on anyone to get there. I just want to go to work, enjoy my job and go home. And so I think that there's maybe even an additional way to categorize individuals. And I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. It's content versus complacent complacency. That ember is almost burnt out. They've given up hope. They have no desire, no way of even possibly starting to fan that flame again. And so they're they're just

living a life that they feel they have no control over versus someone who is content. They're very happy where they are. They love their life. They feel good in their body. They don't necessarily desire to do more, but they're not unhappy. And that to me is content. I'm curious your thoughts on that and is content even enough?

Jason (07:48.247)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (07:54.465)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (07:59.534)
No, because I think content is still comfortable. I don't mean that you need to wake up every day and put on a hair sweater and go out into humid weather and be uncomfortable and itchy all day long. But I do believe that growth begins at the end of your comfort zone. And so many of us are terrified of what the end of our comfort zone looks like. And one of the things I say a lot when I do

keynote speaking is the problem with comfort zones is that they're comfortable. Like my comfort zone, like my ultimate comfort zone on a Sunday in February in Indiana is still being in my like favorite, like hoodie, door dashing my favorite food and binge watching my favorite thing under my favorite blanket on my couch with my wife on a Sunday afternoon. And to get me to move from that place is going to take a lot. It's going to take a whole lot.

And I think metaphorically, that's where people are. And they just get so used to going through the motions that they've been numbed into complacency. They see others who are content and think about what that could look like. But then what happens, I think a lot of times is they go, yeah, that couldn't be for me. That's, that's, it's too hard.

You know, it's out there somewhere. It's many, many, many, many, many steps away. And I don't even know how to begin it. And that's honestly one of the things that I talk about a lot is let's not focus on, I mean, have a goal in mind, right? Like what's the end state? Where do you want to get to? But also, like nobody says I'm going to climb Mount Everest. Nobody says that today and leaves on a plane tomorrow to climb Mount Everest.

That's a big goal, right? There are things that need to happen. There's planning, there's training, there's logistics, there's all this stuff. And the way that I speak about it in my framework is that you create that goal by striking one match at a time. What's the next thing you could do? Some people say, what's the next right thing? For me, it's what's the next match that you can strike? I think, again, I think part of it is people are

Jason (10:18.67)
Content also because like well, you know, I hate I've heard this I've heard this so many times I either hate or I don't like my job But I make really good money and it gives me benefits and I'm like, is that what life is all about? to get paid well and have good benefits, but you're miserable inside and For me, I just I have always been one of those people. That's not enough for me

And so I'm very open with my own story and my own way that I've done things and hopefully that can help other people. But the one thing that I know is if you are not willing to be uncomfortable, it's not going to work. I've tried. I've, I've coached people who, who say, yeah, I love feedback and I'm, ready to be uncomfortable. And then you give them feedback and then you get fired. Literally happened to me a couple of different times.

Desiree Petrich (10:58.893)
Yeah.

Desiree Petrich (11:10.538)
okay. Well, sure. So I'm curious. How do you begin to, what was the first part of your framework? Find your fire. What is even the first step in that? Is there a question you have to ask yourself? Okay, let's hear.

Jason (11:18.936)
Find your fire.

Jason (11:24.942)
Several actually, yeah. So part of it is, and I have, as a result of this framework, I created a 30 day workbook that people can work through and the first couple pages are all questions. So some of it is like, time, if you had all the time in the world, if you could be anywhere in the world, if you had all the money in the world, like what would that look like? What is your ideal community to be in? What's your ideal job?

Do you want to be a part of a team? Do you want to lead a team? Do you want to be remote? Do you want to be in a building? Do you want to be in that building in the Midwest or on a coast or, you know, all those. And and and I think that's where most people they go, I'd love to live in California. But it's so expensive and then it and then it's dead like it's just so expensive. And then then we're done with that whole thing. Well, it's like, you know, California is not the only place in the country with the coast. There's there's other, you know, why why California?

Right? Do you want to be somewhere that's sunny? Colorado has 300 days of sunshine a year. Is that, know, so part of it is just a curiosity about what could be different and shutting off the internal editor that says it's too expensive. I could never do that. We have to move the family. I'd be away, you know, like all the reasons to not do it. And so what I do a lot of times in individual client work is

we'll walk through those questions and I'll say, okay, we're gonna do two activities. One, you're gonna write down some of these goals and all of the things that could possibly go wrong or all of the things that are standing in your way to keep you from doing that. Great exercise, right? So I know what the barriers are. And I tell people, if you're gonna do that, set a timer. So if it's 15 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour, whatever it takes to get all that stuff out, write it all down on a piece of paper.

And then whatever amount of time you have spent, let's say it's 20 minutes writing down all that stuff, set another timer with another piece of paper and do it for the exact same amount of time and write down all of the things that could go ridiculously well and spend 20 minutes on that side of the equation. Because most of us allow the negative side, what I would call your what if abouts, to keep you stuck. And let's at least give equal time

Jason (13:50.252)
to what could go right. And what I find is, you know, we'll have the dream, we'll have the goal, we'll get a couple of what ifs abouts, who do you think you are, what makes you so smart, this is never gonna work, and then we go, yeah, it's never gonna work. Well, let's give a little bit of time and attention to what could go right. Because I do believe that when you, the way you think and the intentions you put out in the world, like, if you're a miserable person, you're gonna find other miserable people.

Like attracts like it really does. And so part of it too is just like, let's just begin to change what every day could look like. And for some people, that is a huge step out of the comfort zone, just because it's like, well, I've been in this job for 10 years or 15 years or 20 years. And it's like, okay, but what if you weren't? And that's where I come to help support and encourage people to create. First of all, just

What do even want? mean think about the people that you know, it's like if you ask them what so what do you really want in life? most people go I Don't know Because we've gotten content and or complacent and we just kind of go through the motions and the problem is when you look around everybody's going through the motions and That's one of the things I love about being my own boss and having my own business. Is it stressful? Yeah, do I have to sell in order to eat? Yeah, and

I can schedule my days however I want to. I don't have to show up at a building. I don't have to work for a jerky boss that is in it for the ego. And to me, that's worth more than nice healthcare and a steady paycheck. But for other people, it's not. And let me just say this one other thing. That doesn't, like this whole process that I'm talking about doesn't mean that you have to quit what you're currently doing. It doesn't mean that you like cut everything and go in a completely different direction.

It could mean like, what if you took one night a week and went and volunteered for a nonprofit that has a cause that you love? Maybe that could eventually lead to being on the board of the nonprofit. Maybe it leads to you starting your own nonprofit. I don't know. But if there's something in you that you have to give and you want to change your life, then just again, strike that one match. Just go volunteer once a month.

Jason (16:17.368)
That's 12 days out of the year now that will be different than the 12 days from the last year. And see what happens.

Desiree Petrich (16:24.706)
Yeah, you can definitely start small. So when you were talking, you were talking about these negative thoughts that pop into your head. And I have been in relation to culture and helping companies have better culture. speak a lot about self-awareness and the self-awareness that individuals have, but it's so difficult to explain self-awareness to people, especially because 85 to 90 percent of us, even if we think we are, we're not actually self-aware. so. And that's an actual statistic.

Jason (16:50.316)
Not even close.

Desiree Petrich (16:53.482)
But you were talking about these negative thoughts. You were talking about all of these negative thoughts, these what ifs that come up, and you called it something. What did you call it and why?

Jason (16:54.221)
Wow.

Jason (16:59.702)
Yep. Yep.

So as a result of that set breakout session that I went to, I did not write a book in six weeks. It was just short of about four years. But I did write it. And as I was writing it, was looking for a word that encompassed automatic negative thoughts, head trash.

Desiree Petrich (17:14.926)
You

Jason (17:26.734)
imposter syndrome, all of that stuff. And I was like, I can't find a word and I just need a word because I really needed to encapsulate all these things. So I was like, well, I can't find one. I have a master's degree in English and I'm entitled. So I'll just make up a word. So that's what I did. So the word is it doesn't roll off the tongue super smoothly, but the word is what if abouts. And the definition is the pesky doubts and fears that work hard to keep us stuck and afraid.

And the reason that the word is what it is, is because, you know, let's say you're talking to somebody who says, just, want to change my life. And you go, okay, well, what is it that you'd love to do? Well, I'd love to, you know, help cancer patient kids on a farm with horses. Okay. So what does that look like? And they start telling you, and then they get alone with their thoughts. And it's like the what if abouts look like this.

And these are actual ones, you know, I showed you this before we started, but I'll hold it up again, just so you, but like I have 1200 of these index cards with people's what if abouts on them. And there are things that say, and what's interesting to me, Desiree, is I have done this research is that I have 1200 of these, but they're, they're so similar. There's it's, and I've even recently over the last year started asking people right down your age.

your gender and the industry that you're in and your ethnicity. It doesn't matter how old, how young, gender, it doesn't matter. It's similar across the board. And so the what if abouts are like, who do you think you want to start a horse farm for kids with kids? Who do you think you are? That's never going to work. What if you leave your job?

and you lose your health insurance and you spend your savings to do this thing and it doesn't work. Then what about like, does that mean they're going to come take your house? What if they take your house? Are they going to take your car? If they take your car, are you going to be homeless? Is anybody ever going to hire you again? Is your family going to think you're crazy? And we go into this crazy spiral of all of these things. And it's a deluge of these what if abouts and I call them extinguishers to our fire.

Jason (19:51.702)
And before long, it's like we're just this kind of pile of ash and that's thrown out a little bit of smoke because it's like, yeah, that'll, that probably will never work. And then we quit. And, know, when I got into this business, I had a very good friend of mine who was in consulting and he said, I just got together with him for lunch and I said, I don't know what you do. I don't understand. And he's a sales coach and a sales consultant, very successful. And I

And I said, I don't understand what you do. And he goes, well, I'm a consultant. And he goes, and by the way, before I tell you what it is, he said, you should be doing that as well. And my immediate response, immediate, I didn't even think about it just came out of my mouth. These were my what if abouts that were just the default. I said to him, I said, well, that's silly, because I don't have anything to say. And even if I did, nobody would want to listen. That's what ran around in my head for because I knew my job was going to be eliminated.

That ran around in my head for two years. What are gonna do? Well, I wanna start my own thing. You don't have anything to say, nobody would wanna listen even if you did. Like over and over and over and over and over again. he was very kind and he said, well, first of all, that's BS. And secondly, here are the things I think you should do. And what's crazy is I'm doing exactly those things that he said now 10 years later.

Desiree Petrich (21:12.526)
Well, we're getting close to wrapping this up, but I need to bring us back to the top. you've just said you say out loud what it is that you want to be. You say how it is that you want to show up. You go through all the what if abouts and write down all your negative thoughts. You then go through and write down all the good things that could happen. Then what? Then how do you close the gap?

Jason (21:27.212)
Yeah. Yep.

Yep. I'm so I'm so glad you asked that question. So so there's two things and I say this sort of with the joke, but also seriously. And that is with proper fire safety in mind, you preferably outside, you take those pieces of paper over a grill over a fire pit and you and you burn them, you torch them.

And that hashtag of ignite hope and torch fear, I'm telling you, there is something so cathartic to watching those things go up in flames. And then once you do that, you have an idea of where it is that you want to go. And the next thing is you make sure that you have Jim Rohn has a great quote. says, we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with. Right. When is the last time anybody who's listening to this has ever

looked around and gone, who are the five people that are most active in my life? We don't do it. And I created what I call a tribal inventory to like, who are the people that you currently have? Who are the people that you need to get rid of? And who are the people that you need to hire to fill in the spaces? And so I don't believe we're meant to go through life alone. I think we suck on our own. Statistics are pretty clear about that. So you need to get this stuff out. You need to torch it.

you need to then just decide what is the next match I'm going to strike? What's the next thing I'm going to do? Doesn't have to and I tell people start super small, like start with something that you can you could do with very little effort, but will also beget momentum because momentum begets momentum. And so how do you get that started and make sure that you have at least one or two people who are around you?

Jason (23:21.336)
who can encourage you and support you and hold you accountable. And I mean accountable in a loving, caring, supportive way, not accountability. Like you didn't do what you're supposed to do. I'm gonna hit you with a stick and get you back in line. I hate that kind of accountability. But like supporting you to encourage you to say, how do we get to that thing? And then you do the thing. You check in with your tribe. They say, this is great. What's the next thing? We're gonna meet in two weeks and see how you did. And you do the next thing and you do the next thing, but nothing.

happens. And way that I say this is like, our life is like a matchbox, you know, Forrest Gump said life's like a box of chocolates, I believe that life is like a box of matches. And you've got to pull a match out and strike it if you just leave the matches in the matchbox, nothing happens. There's no heat, there's no energy, there's no spark, there's nothing. So part of it, a big part of it is just striking that match and then seeing like, how did that go?

And then you do it again and then you do it again and it sounds so simple because it is but simple doesn't mean easy. Because it's scary. Change is scary. Change is hard.

Desiree Petrich (24:32.322)
Yeah, I love it. I want to wrap this up by saying if you felt like inspired like I do, make sure you reach out to Jason on LinkedIn. If you need to hire that person who's going to hold you accountable lovingly, Jason, I'm sure would be happy to do that for you. I am more than happy to do that for you. No sticks required. I hope no one's ever beaten you with a stick to get you back in line.

Jason (24:50.19)
100%.

Jason (24:54.478)
No sticks and I won't burn you I promise I won't burn you

Desiree Petrich (24:59.902)
But thank you so much, Jason. I'm glad that we wrapped up on this because I love that analogy of the matchbox and just trying things and doing things and taking action. It's why I named my company Intentional Action, because it's not enough to have good intentions. We have to take some action on it. So thank you so much for coming on, sharing your energy with us and your knowledge. I appreciate it. And until next time, because we will have Jason on.

Jason (25:13.272)
Exactly. No, it's not. 100%.

Jason (25:21.56)
Thank you. My pleasure.

Desiree Petrich (25:26.338)
There's multiple stories I have written down that we didn't even get to today. So he will be back. But until then, follow Jason on LinkedIn, send us a message, make sure you don't let your Ember burn out.

Jason (25:38.838)
Yes and Amen. Thank you.