52: The College Debt Nobody Talks About with Shellee Howard

In this episode, Shellee  Howard, founder and CEO of College Ready, discusses how families can navigate the complex college admission process, negotiate effectively, and prepare students for lifelong success. Her insights challenge common misconceptions and provide practical strategies to optimize college choices, scholarships, and career planning. This formula is not based on a checklist, but rather on a young adult's values, passions, and thinking about return investments on their college choice and major.

To follow Shellee:

Website: 

https://collegereadyplan.com/meet-shellee/

Books:

https://a.co/d/04JEoxJ9

https://a.co/d/0ilKwTLu

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Unmasking Social, where we talk about building real friendships and meaningful connections without masking who we truly are. I'm your host, Sharon Bowen, a speech and language pathologist with an expertise in social thinking and how it relates to autism and ADHD. Specifically with our teens and queens. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Unmasking Social. Today we have on our podcast Shelly's. Shelly has done very important work in the realm of college in terms of making sure that our kids are ready for college, our families are ready for college, and ultimately not letting money stand in the way of college, building up a plan so that kids can go to college and the colleges that match their needs. So, Shelly, I just want to know from you. I'll turn it over to you, and maybe you could share with us your journey from how you started off, where you were at, and what really spoke to you in this college journey and why you're running this very successful business now to help those who need that college support.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

So happy to be here. Thank you, Sharon. So as Sharon stated, my name is Shelley Howard, and I am the founder and CEO of College Ready. And I've been doing this for 18 years. So this is my 19th application season. So for you families out there who are frustrated that you have to do it four times, think about that for a little bit. And it all started with my firstborn. He was my why. And he came home from eighth grade one spring afternoon and said, Mom, I know exactly what I want to do when I grow up. And I'm like, what happened at school today? He said the high school counselor came in and said, we need to pick classes for next year. And I decided I want to be a brain surgeon. Will you help me? Right. That was my why. That young man asked for help. And that's the first thing that I want to let families know. My why started because my child needed me. It wasn't because I planned this big, robust situation, but I I've been doing it 19 years because he had a very successful season. And what did that look like? So I won't go into too many details because it is just a podcast. But if you ever want to know my story, you can go to my website. It's all there. That young man said, This is what I want to do as mom. I took him to his high school counselor and I said, Can you please tell her what you told me? Because we need some help. And she said, Why do you want to be a doctor? They don't make money anymore. And wow, is right. They squashed, she squashed his dream in one hot second. And he looked at me and I looked at her and I'm like, Did she say that out loud? And he's like, Yeah. And so we left. And he then looks at me and he's like, now what? And so I did what any crazy parent would do. And I went back to school and I got my master's and I got went back to school and I became a certified independent college strategist. Then I started studying to be a financial strategist. That young man got into Harvard pre-med, went there four years for free because he got a full ride at USC and I negotiated. And so I let families know that college is not about picking a school. It's about the academic fit, the social fit, and the financial fit. All four of my own children have done it. And in 18 years, my students have earned over 80. Wow. That is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

So your why was your wonderful son who was told that he wouldn't make enough money as a doctor. It's not the season for it. And then you did your own research, went back to school. Were there any trends that you were noticing, like what was going on with your son, where people were told, don't go into this profession, it won't make enough money, you're going to be struggling with it. Did you notice that that was happening a lot?

SPEAKER_02 4:06

I still notice it. I don't think it's stopped since then. That young man just graduated as a chief orthopedic surgeon from UCLA, 15 years of education, and people are still saying, is it worth it? And if you ask him, 110%, because he's not in debt. That's the big difference. When students are going to college and coming out with debt and then not using their major, I get why people are frustrated. But that doesn't have to be that way. All four of my kids were able to navigate debt-free with a degree that they're you they're utilizing. And that's what our goal is: helping families with that transition to a career. College is just the stepping stone.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, the stepping stone to the career. And again, some will argue that your career will have nothing to do with your college degree, which is very true because my college degree in psychology landed me as a speech pathologist somehow. So sometimes, you know, things can change. But yeah, so you, you, you basically were working with these families, trying to figure it out, but also didn't want the finances to hold people back, which is a big one, right? And so the art of negotiation. I mean, so what is your secret? How do you get families to negotiate with the schools?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

So here's what's important. Uh, listeners, think about this. If you own a business, or Sharon, if I if you own a business and I come to you and I say, Sharon, I really want to work for you. I heard you're the most amazing boss. And you will say, Can I see your resume? And child A says, Well, I've been kind of busy at the beach and at the mall, and I haven't really had much time to really put one together. You know, life is stressful. And you're gonna say, Thank you so much. Have a great day. Child number two comes to you and says, Sharon, I really want to work for you because I heard you're an amazing boss. You say, Can I see your resume? And they say, Well, here's the problem. I worked really hard to get it down to four pages because I've really been working at understanding what is going to make me successful. So honestly, if you hire me, you can go on vacation, I can do your job, and I can make you very successful. Which one are you going to hire? Is that a true question? Or no, it's a it's a question I want everybody to ponder for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Well, no, I'm saying, well, well, obviously, the, you know, that's that's the hard part, right? I mean, the resumes are all good, right? But the resume, one of them will say that they will be successful and they will make you successful. They will make you very successful.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So here's the thing college is a business. Without your tuition, there is no college. So really think about that for a minute. If you put that same mindset on, there's a college, there's a student who wants to get in. One student does the minimum amount of work to graduate from high school. They're not getting any money. There's not scholarships available from for taking the easy path. On the other hand, the student who is taking the rigorous classes that's doing community service and leadership and extracurriculars and getting ready to adult, guess who gets the money? Guess who gets the scholarships? The same one who gets the job, gets promoted, gets the raise. It's the same thought process. Everybody wants to make it like college is a bad thing. College is not the bad thing, it's how you go about navigating and finding the best fit college. There's over 2,700 colleges. And if you're applying to a vacation, like going to UC Santa Barbara or NYU, and your child doesn't deserve to go there, there's no money gonna be attached to that. If your child is setting the bar, setting the GPA, setting the test score, setting the leadership, guess who's going to throw money at them? It's the same exact strategy. So everybody's like mystified, it's this deep, dark secret. And I just let them know let's just take it to a very logical place of you have to earn it. There's not everybody getting a trophy, and everybody gets to earn it. And that's the thing. Gone are the days that you can go undeclared, undecided, and then just kind of wing it. These kids are being forced as teenagers to choose what they want to do for a career, what major is going to set them up for that career, and what college is going to help them be successful. That's a lot for a 17-year-old to do on their own.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Very hard. And and it's something that I actually grappled with. I remember I was 17, almost 18. And it's kind of like, wait, what am I doing? Right. And some people are just so clear, they know what they want to do since they were five years old. They stick with it. I wasn't one of those people, though. And so that supports integral. And one thing I see as a speech pathologist who works with elementary and middle school students now and has been in the educational system for so long. One of the things, and I think we address this a bit on another podcast episode, is that unfortunately, 11th grade comes around, right? And then suddenly parents and families are scrambling to find the right school. And that seems a little bit on the later side. And reading about your work, it seems like you start even earlier. You start middle school already. So you're preparing kids for middle school, for college in middle school. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yes, and so there are seventh and eighth graders that are more mature than my 11th and 12th graders. So I really try not to put a cap on their age. There's some amazing young people out there that are mind-blowing, but they're not just preparing for college, they're preparing for adulthood. So many people forget that this is just stuff we should do for our kids. We should teach them community service because think about our world. If everybody did community service before they were 18, what would our world look like? Probably very different than it does right now. So I say it's about adulting. Yes, we start in middle school, but not to shove them into a college. We help them with what are your core values? What are your gifts? What are your talents? What do you advocate for? What's that thing that is special to you that you're gonna bring to the university? This is preparing for life. And then we find the right fit college, and then it's a perfect match.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

So that's fascinating. So you actually work as early as middle school with these students to see how they can bolster up their competencies and life skills that will transfer over to college skills. And that way when they reach the point where they're applying, they have a whole litany of things like the A, they can speak to, but B, that even more importantly, that they develop. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

And that's why colleges want to know. Everybody is looking for this, this check the box or a list of things. If you go on social media, it's really painful. Just give me the list. Just give me the list. There's no list. The list is they want to know who is your child, what have they done to prove who they are? That's it. That's that's the big secret. And now here's the challenge. How will your child figure that out? Either by themselves, with you, with their high school counselor, are they gonna do it alone? And so that's the question I ask families is it's about having a plan. So college ready, our website is college ready plan because we found you can't be college ready if you don't have a plan. If you just wake up one day and decide, you know, I'm gonna apply to this school, that is not gonna cut it. A miracle you get in, but you'll never get a scholarship doing it that way. So now you're looking at debt. And then who wants debt? Who wants to start their child off with debt or use your retirement? That's not a plan. That is a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, the whole debt concepts in this country. I I mean, I'm sure other countries have it too, but I feel like here it's more prominent because college costs a lot more in general. And so I find that people are spending more time paying off their debt than actually earning money for a very long time. And so this debt-free approach is great. But the but then the flip side is is there enough to go around?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

There's $53 billion in Harvard's bank account. Is there enough to go around? I think so. The challenge is kids just don't they they they the parents feel I make too much money, we're not getting scholarships, which is completely wrong. The second thing is students are like, I'm too busy, I don't have time to apply to scholarships. If I track on their phone how much time they spend on social media and I can flip that for how much they can make in scholarships, there's no doubt there's plenty of money, there's plenty of time. What it comes down to is doing the work. A scholarship does not just fly in and land in your bank account. Right. It's a concept that's so strange to this generation of, well, how how do I do that? The reality is there's thousands, there's a $10,000 scholarship if you're a vegan. There's a $25,000, $25,000 scholarship you have to apply to in your junior year if you can show leadership. So I just really want the listeners to be thinking, wait a minute, there's there's a scholarship if you have one brown eye and one blue eye. I mean, there is really a scholarship for everything. And that is how my students are able to navigate. There's four buckets of money. There's need-based money. That is the student or family who makes under $200,000 a year, roughly. Okay, that may not be everybody, right? Okay, that's one bucket. But there's three more buckets. There's institutional, picking the right college, picking a generous college versus a stingy college. We can tell you which one they are before you apply. Then it's the merit bucket. Are they really good at their violin? Are they a great actress? Are they a great soccer player? Are they a great academia? They earn that. That is based on how hard they work and their ability to prove it. And then there's independent. The independent is what I just shared. There is literally so many scholarships that go unattained every year. Just they keep floating and floating. There's never been a year ever where all the scholarships have been used.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, and that's really ridiculous because that means that there's all that money pouring in from philanthropists, from people alumni, alumnus, and then and then it just doesn't get used. You mentioned how, you know, once you find the right fit, right? It's all about really just kind of promoting yourself, but also showing, like, hey, this is what I've done all these years, you know, even before high high school. But I've also gotten confused because I even have worked with some aspiring college students, and again, they had all the things that seem to be going right for them, but then colleges don't accept them that you would think, hey, you know, what this person, you know, their scores match up, their community building matches up, and then they don't just get accepted to certain colleges. Is there a rhyme or reason, or is that just they have to fulfill quotas and they have to uh manage things in a specific way?

SPEAKER_02 14:58

So there's a case manager at every school, and that's the person who has to balance. We can only have so many business majors, so many art majors, so many music majors, because if everybody applied business, I'd have to fire all of my staff and we would only be a business school. Well, guess what? That's not gonna happen. So it's about quota. It's being the best at that school for that major. So here's the problem: students do it all the time. I talk to students every single day for a living, and I will ask them, so what do you want to do? And they're they'll say, I want to go into computer science. But their whole resume, all their activities, all their honors, all of their awards are saying that they want to be an artist or a swimmer, or there is like so much confusion. So the admissions people are sitting there going, wait, you're applying as this, but you have no proof that you even like it, are good at it, want to do it. Help me understand. So again, it goes back to just logic. They can't have a whole school of computer science. So if computer science is the number one major at the school you're applying to and you have a 3.5 GPA, depends on what are you looking at US News and World Report? Are you looking at, you know, there there are so many ways you can slice and dice it. I can show students the exact GPA and the exact test score of who got in last year in each major. They're shocked. They're like, but that doesn't match what it says online. That's not what AI says, that's not what Google says. Well, guess what? If you Google you have a hurt thumb, you're gonna have cancer if you dig deep. Right. So be very, very careful when you're comparing yourself to the virtual world because it's not real.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Right. I think it's an important point to make, especially because we're living in a weird time where AI is so prominent and it's so easy when you experience some sort of what what you call a failure or you didn't get in or you feel rejected. It's easy for them to coach, you know, you in a way where, oh, you know, everything's gonna be okay and you're doing the right thing. It doesn't necessarily know how to coach you in terms of, okay, maybe try this instead. You know, so it's it's kind of it's kind of a little bit wonky in that way.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

And it's really actually what's causing a lot of stress and trauma for these teenagers because they're putting in, I did this and this and this and this. I checked every box. But here's the thing colleges like a UCLA gets more applications than any school probably in the world. So just by sheer numbers, are you really the very top they're going to receive? The UCs are now receiving the same kind of student as Stanford, as Harvard, as Duke, because the cost. People are saying, I'm just gonna go to a great in-state school. It could be any in-state school. The problem is they're getting so inundated that they have about four minutes with the application reviewer. If you don't have that application and that essay to really highlight who you are, what matters to you, and what have you done to prove it, to speak to that school, if you're just doing it generically, I don't care what GPA and test score you have, you're not getting in. It doesn't work like that. And I think that's the hardest part for students for sure, but for parents who are standing back and going, my kid is amazing. Yeah. I think all four of my kids are amazing. And then when I look at the schools they didn't get in, and I look at this, I mean, there's there's no doubt that my three other students, my three other kids, would have been miserable at Harvard. Miserable. They did not want to work that hard. They did not want to be that competitive, they did not want to be in that environment. But was it perfect for child number one? 110%. So it really is picking the right academic, social, financial fit for that student. But if the student doesn't know how they're gonna stand out, how are they gonna explain it on their college application? They're just checking boxes. Colleges are they read thousands and thousands of applications. If there's a question, if a student has a high GPA and a low test score, the school either gives easy A's or they have testing or they didn't test prep.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Right. So they're looking at that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

They're looking at where's the pattern. Help me understand. If you have a low GPA and a high test score, you're a smart, lazy student. Looking for those.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah, that's a good point because I think a lot of people put an emphasis on the testing. And I know over time it's become less of a focus, but it's still a focus in terms of determining, you know, IQ and things like that. But then, you know, the kid is struggling in in their classes, and and that's a good point for those who are listening that actually your test score is not fully reflective of you. And it can mean that you're not ambitious. It's just you're naturally smart on standardized tests.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

And some students, I'll ask them, why did you choose the SAT? And they said, Oh, because I heard it doesn't have this section on it. Or my brother did that, or my friend's cousin's sister did that. That is a terrible strategy. That's not even a strategy. That is just doing it wrong. So understanding you are not like another student. You may be great at essays, you may not. They may be great at essays, they may not. And if you're doing what they did or what they recommend, stop it.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

It's not helping you at all. Yeah. And circling back to what you were saying about how you know that your four kids are different, right? Well, one of your sons ended up in Harvard. We knew that Harvard wasn't the best decision for the others. And I feel like the theme of groupthink keeps coming up, right? And families and just looking at friends or Instagram and seeing, hey, I'm supposed to be like that person. I'm just curious, do you come across a lot of situations or some situations where families just feel like in their blood, like everybody has gone to a specific school, therefore all of their children should go to this school or that specific child should go to that school if there's one child. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

And, you know, I'm not here to parent anybody or teach parenting. But what I do know is when I went to college, it was very different than it is now. And the fact that, you know, you were an alum, that's great. You love your school. But is it a good fit for your child? I keep coming back to just because it's a great school, I don't disagree. But is it a great school? Many families don't even realize that not every college has every major. I show this every single day to families. They say, I want to go to this school and I want to do this major, and then I can show them right on the screen that school doesn't have that major. Wow. So why do you want to go there? Well, because of its location or sport or something else. They're picking based. On things, not on the education or the opportunity that it's going to provide for them when they graduate. And so leaving it up to your 17-year-old who's picking it based on a football team, a baseball team, a you know, dance class, whatever, that's a really scary way to get into debt because will they get that return on investment? So we're the only consulting firm that I know of that looks at the return on investment of the education and the whole process because students need to start really thinking about how AI is going to impact their career when they graduate from college.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

So yeah, this AI, you know, it's it's my nieces and nephew are a bit older. So they're like in the range, some of them at least, because I have seven of them, very precious children. I'm not biased at all, but they range between, let's say, the older ones from like 17, 18 to 22. And it's interesting because I know like my nephew is an accountant major right now. And like his parents, he's an accountant major. I think he thought it's practical and financially feasible and you know, good for family life. And I wonder, you know, with AI, like what about these finance jobs? Like, should we be steering them away from certain jobs? But we don't really know the future 100%. So it's kind of like, it's kind of confusing a little bit because we don't really know what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Well, we start with that in college ready. It's called See Our Future Now. And what we do is we sit and have conversations with students about what they think they want. And here's where it gets really, really scary. The financial literacy in this country of 17-year-olds is terrifying. They don't teach it in high school. And if the family doesn't teach it, where are they gonna learn it? So parents are doing such an epic job of providing for their needs, their food, their shelter, their clothing. Kids are just like, yeah, life is good. Yes. But the problem is they're not looking at what is life gonna look like when they adult and they move out. So the second thing we do is we get really, really clear on what is important. Is money important? If it's important, then some careers are out. There, it just is. You, you know, to be a social worker and want a new car every year does not make any sense at all. So we're helping students, they don't get this. And it's really, really hard to expect them to understand $100,000 in debt or $400,000 in debt. Because honestly, if I gave them a million dollars, they would buy a jet, they'd buy a yacht, they take all their friends around the world for a year. One million, no concept. And if there's no concept, how are they going to understand what is their future going to look like?

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Yeah, I wish I had a financial literacy class. And I know that many students are not having it, or the financial literacy classes are maybe not subpar, but just not on the level that we need it to be. And I feel like because of that, so many people are making decisions that are not based on logic in terms of what's going to happen financially in the end when they finish school and they're stuck with loans. And so uh, and it's interesting because you mentioned the point of how the value of money, right? Like I there's a lack of maybe understanding the value of money. And I see it because even so easy to just, it's so easy to pay for things, right? You have your Apple Pay and you just go around with your parents' Apple Pay in some situations, right? And and then it's just kind of like a thing on your phone, another app. So I find that that's really tricky. And so financial literacy is part of your course.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yes. So we we spend actually quite a bit of time because in order for them to learn about a return on investment, they have to understand what money buy and what will that get them? Because if I ask them point blank, you know, is this important? Is this not important? So we do a lot of this or that. And then I can show them here are three careers based on what we have found out that would be the perfect fit for what you want. Here's how much you'll make five years out, here's how much you'll make 10 years out. Here, is this school a good return on the investment, right? Opportunity cost, does it take five years to get a four-year degree? Like we're really helping them think this through before they just randomly choose. And then from there, we can show them where AI is going to impact that. And so we can show them the top 100 careers that won't be there by the time they're graduate, but we can also tell them there's gonna be a hundred new careers we don't aim of. And how do we set them up? Communication, collaboration, leadership, doing things that they're going to need to do when they adults. It's no longer gonna be a computer coder sitting in front of their computer alone. That is not what the world's gonna look like. And on top of it, this generation is gonna change jobs every two to three years. So they're gonna jump and pivot and move. Long gone are the days you have the same career for 30. Right. Right? This generation has a very short attention span. They want it like yesterday. And here's the hardest part is AI falls right into that. But AI is not there yet, it is in its infancy stages, and it is dangerous if you don't know how to use it. The other day, chat told me I am the smartest person they have talked to today. Well, maybe you were. And yesterday was a hard day over people. Just that made me feel I'm like, that's not what I care about right now. I really needed to know this piece of information. The prompting, that is huge. Understanding how to use it, you still have to have a human brain. And healthcare, what is that gonna look like? A computer will never be able to touch a person and get them healthy by just standing there. Somebody has to come up with that. So, as much as I like to help students prepare, I want them to be flexible. I want them to have financial literacy, communication, leadership, the value of money, and they're gonna be perfectly capable of pivoting with whatever direction they're gonna go. It's the ones that are truly not looking at computer science right now. There's no entry-level jobs for them. Right. And all these kids that we're banking on, that's a secure job. That's a scary place for them to graduate and have no career.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

And I think that's again, that speaks to what you're doing, is preparing them for what may be. And then they make their own choice. You empower them, you teach them leadership, and then ultimately it's up to them about if they still want to risk it all. And with AI, it is interesting because it does still confuse a lot of things. And that's why I almost feel like they're gonna be need needing like AI managers or AI support, and maybe computer science might but look differently. But yes, it is it is dangerous for our, you know, vulnerable aspiring college students to use it because, again, misguided information that's not really checked. But speaking to AI and speaking to the virtual world, do some of these students come to you and say, I want a remote job only?

SPEAKER_02 29:24

My gosh, yes. I get lots that say, I want to be an influencer or I want to be an entrepreneur, I don't want a college degree, I want to go to a trade school. I get it all and I embrace it all. I don't believe there's one way, one correct way. If you want to be a doctor, an engineer, a lawyer, a CPA, you have to have a degree. That will never change. But if you don't, the sky's the limit. But the problem is, is if you don't know who you are, your gifts, your talents, your core values, how will you decide what is next? I'm okay with them saying, you know, I wanna, I wanna work a laptop lifestyle. I want to travel the world and I that's great, but who's gonna hire you? Are you gonna hire you? Right. Where's your business plan? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

That's a lot. Yeah, I've seen it a lot with the remote piece, and it almost scared me like during COVID about how it was gonna take off. My friend and I used to talk about it and how like in the short term people are loving it. There's something said to be in person, but I a lot of students that I've met that are even in college, like before they go on their interview, they say, Oh, is this university hybrid or not?

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

And so it's like kind of like almost a decision, if it's a commuter college, I guess, specifically more. And even if you go away to college, you can have more hybrid classes, and that helps them make the determination. And then they they compare and contrast like which ones are going to be more hybrid. And that's how they make their final decision.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah. And there's a lot of the unknown comes from students are spending so much time on their cell phone that they're not trying other things. Like back in the day, you would play on the street till the lights came on and you knew if you were super slow, you knew that everybody had their thing. Right now, you see everybody's best day on social media and your life doesn't feel all that special. And so, what I encourage families to really focus on is helping your child get to know themselves. And it sounds really strange when you think about it, but really they don't because they live in a world that is not something they have to navigate or fail. Many students have never failed at anything, they're terrified of failing. Life is not like that. At some point, they're going to fail. And if they're not capable of picking themselves up and moving forward, now we're in a really desperate place. So I tell students, not having a plan is the scariest thing that you can do, whatever the plan is. If you're gonna take a gap year, great, what are you gonna do during that gap year? Are you gonna stay at home and play on the computer? Like what we need a plan. It's a dangerous place to just be floating and not being productive and not growing as a human being because you'll feel stagnant and left behind when all your friends come back from college with these careers and these jobs and the car and the 401k and all this stuff. And they're gonna be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I see it all the time. So I tell families it has to be a plan.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yeah. And with that plan, you speak to the resilience and the courage to get back up because again, not all plans work the same. We like them to work out, but like you said, there's gonna have to be a lot of pivoting, more pivoting than even in the past. And so if you fail, right, you have to also learn the resilience. And I guess that's part of it, right? That in your coursework that you do with with them is teaching them that, yeah, one day you will exhibit a failure.

unknown 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

And how are you gonna cope with them?

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Right. And they're just like, I'm not, I can't fail. And I'm like, that is not real life. I've never known any adult who's never failed at something, who's never lost at something. And so what's happening is if they're not failing little failures and pick-me-ups while they're in high school, they get to college and now the end of the world happens if they get a bad grade and they don't know how to pivot and their parents aren't there. And then that's when things get real. And if they're not ready for that, that's why kids drop out of college. It's just too much. Not that college is too hard, the whole process is challenging because you're adulting, right? My son, I'll never forget. He called me first week at harbor and he goes, Mom, you'll never believe what happened. I'm like, Oh. He goes, Do you know what happens when you put red and white in a washing machine? I go, I knew it was gonna be laundry. I knew it. Yeah. We had practiced at home. And he just he said, I didn't want to wait, you know, I didn't want to wait for my laundry. So I just combined it and I go, Well, you're gonna have a lot of pink to wear then. And he's like, You're not gonna fix it. I'm like, no, are you kidding me? It's a great opportunity for you to live in it or figure out a way to bleach it. Yeah. So there's there's some there's some proof to adulting.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, and there's also this adulting piece now where it's not just automatic. And again, every family's different, but I see patterns and families I work with where a lot of parents will do everything for their kid and they feel like that's what they need to do. They feel comfortable in that mode. And then now you send them off to college and suddenly they're like, oh no, I have to be independent. I have to do these things on my own. I have to even fight my own battles because professors that they may have to speak to may not involve the parent in the conversation because you're an adult now. And so you're gonna have to advocate. So advocacy also is something, right, that you touch upon with the students, right? In terms of speaking loud.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Because here's the thing somebody's gonna have the same GPA higher or lower, same test score higher or lower. Why would a college pick you? Why would they pick your child? There, if there's no more proof than that, they're looking for somebody who cares about others, who is not entitled, who didn't pay to play, who did the hard thing and had learning because of it. College essay questions are just to get to know your student. They're not trying to trick them. They just want to know, tell me, will they be successful at my university?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

That's what they're trying to figure out. Right. So that's why, even though you want the essay to be great, you shouldn't have a parent necessarily write it to make it look like you have all these, you know, abilities because then you're hurting yourself. You get into the school, it's not values aligned and then also maybe not financially aligned for your future and what you really want. Which brings me to my final point about all of this. This is a tough one, but specialized schools. So a lot of individuals who are really strong at something lean towards the specialized schools, whether it's specialized in tech, specialized in art, specialized in in the science realm, whatever it may be. And then I have parents who have spoken to me that were really concerned because, okay, now it's another layer of trying to differentiate yourself. Because as they said, like let's say the kid's name is Harry, which is not a common name these days, but there are a million Harries. They all look the same in a way, like not look physically, but just the way they present themselves. They all act the same, they all have the same clubs that they were in, they all have the same GPAs and everything. How do I set them apart? And so do you come across those students and families and how do you work with them on that?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, I mean, we call them box checkers, like they're checking all of the right boxes, but there's no story behind it. A great example is a student who feeds the homeless. That's great if they like to feed the homeless. But if they're doing it and they're terrified and they dread every moment of it, their essay is going to be my mom made me go and feed the homeless 10 times a month. That's not what colleges are looking for. And that's not a healthy thing for a child. So really tapping in, I come back to the student understanding who they are, what matters to them, and will they be successful? Because to that point, yesterday I met with a client that they want to be an actress. This this child wants to be an actress and she wants to be in big films. And I said, Great, have you won any awards? Have you ever been cast on a commercial, any kind of TV? Have you been the lead in the school play? Just give me something. She goes, No. I'm like, maybe I'm crazy, but how are you going to show that you have the ability to be successful at this school if you haven't done it? Well, I just like watching movies. So there's like this huge disconnect from what they think they want and really what it is. And another student who wanted to be a botanist. Dad was freaking out. She wanted to go to NYU, $100,000 a year to be a botanist. He said, please help me. And I simply said, Okay, I'm terrible at watering plants. Why do you want to be a botanist? She goes, Because I want to save the environment. I'm like, well, wait a minute. So you don't necessarily want to deal with plants, you want to save the environment. And she goes, Yeah. Very simply. So she just couldn't articulate that she really was an environmentalist, not a botanist. She didn't even like dirt. So it's really, we give these students a lot more credit that they know what they're doing than they really know what they're doing. And so that's a perfect example of she could have applied for the wrong major at the wrong school with the wrong return on investment. And it was just because there was lack of understanding.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah. And also to your point of returns, $100,000 a year to be an environmentalist, right? May not be the right fit, maybe a school that has environmental sciences. But then it goes back to, like you said, the botany field versus what it really is, right? So that's also explaining to students what are you actually getting yourself into? A lot of individuals start their internship or the start the job even and say, hey, what? This is what it is, right? So there's a lot of preparation that you're doing with them, which is wonderful. Shelly, I can't thank you enough for being on here and for sharing all the tidbits. There's so much psychology that goes into this, like on all ends, and just in terms of breaking it down for the families and the students and really understanding and helping them understand like where they are in terms of what they need, what they really want. But this financial piece, that's like the that's so huge in terms of supporting them. Because, like you said, I don't think a lot of people understand the value of money anymore. Before we log off, where can everybody get in touch with you? What's the easiest way to connect with you in case there are questions or they want to sign up to your course?

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Yeah. So for your listeners, I have two best-selling books. They're on Amazon. I have them on sale right now for $4. Oh, wow. Because I would give them away and nobody would get them, but for $4, they're flying off the shelf. So just to cover my costs. And you go to Amazon. The first one is how to send your student to college without losing your mind or your money. That was my first bestseller. And my second bestseller is college admissions, college admissions simplified. And so that would be an easy if you want to do it yourself. If you're like, you know, I think I might need a little support, you can go to college readyplan.info, I n f o, and I will gift you 30 minutes of my time where I will give you some clarity. Are you ready for college and for your future? And then finally, our website has a ton of resources, and that's collegereadyplan.com.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Fantastic. Thank you again for the conversation. Much needed one, especially with college right around the corner. Thank you so much for being here, Shelly. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Welcome to Unmasking Social, where we talk about building real friendships and meaningful connections without masking who we truly are. I'm your host, Sharon Baum, a speech and language pathologist with an expertise in social thinking and how it relates to our chemically. Specifically with our text. Let's dive in.