Halve Your Power Bill with Geothermal

HOST A: It is the first week of July in Kingfisher. The temperature has been over 100 degrees for 8 days straight. A homeowner in a 2200 square foot ranch on a slab opens their OG&E bill. 340 dollars. Their neighbor across the street, same builder, same square footage, same year built, opens their bill. 165 dollars. Same weather. Same house. Same family of four. The difference is the system in the back yard. HOST B: The 165 dollar bill is the geothermal house.

I'm Dave Hartzell at Hartzell's Heat & Air in Kingfisher, Oklahoma. 45 years in the trade, Master HVAC license. On Cool Talk I cover the stuff central Oklahoma homeowners actually need to know about heat, air, and indoor air quality.

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Transcript

The Half Price Power Bill Mystery

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Imagine uh opening your July power bill in the middle of a brutal Oklahoma heat wave, and the total is exactly half of what the guy living right next door to you is paying.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh man. That would be the dream, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I mean, same size house, same relentless sun beating down on the roof, literally half the price.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

It sounds I mean, it sounds like an exaggeration, honestly, or maybe a massive accounting error by the utility company.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Yeah, exactly. But today we are doing a deep dive into the gritty dollars and cents reality of how that is physically possible for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Aaron Powell And we aren't just guessing here. We are pulling directly from a really fascinating set of field notes, uh, along with actual billing data from a master HVAC installer named Dave Hartzl.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Which is incredible to have.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

It really is. He's based in Kingfisher, Oklahoma, and the guy has 45 years in the trade.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Wow, 45 years. I love diving into localized case studies like this because it just, you know, it cuts right through the slick marketing brochures.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Manufacturers are always promising the moon with their theoretical efficiency ratings. But Hartzell's notes don't give us lab theories.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Right. They give us actual side-by-side utility bills from real neighbors, neighbors facing the exact same hundred-degree weather.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Because to understand the actual value of a system, you can't look at a mild, breezy spring day, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

No, not at all. You have to jump straight into the absolute most punishing, relentless month of the year.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Which brings us to the summer of 2025.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Exactly. Let's look at July of 2025 in Kingfisher and Canadian counties. Temperatures were over a hundred degrees for uh over a week straight.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Just brutal. And Hartzell's notes paint a picture that is almost hard to believe when you look at the numbers.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

What's fascinating here is the sheer contrast.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Right. So you have a 2,200 square foot ranch home in Kingfisher built on a slab. They have a standard conventional six.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Which is a completely typical bill for a house that size and that kind of heat. Nobody would blink at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Right. But then just two blocks away, you have a house built by the exact same builder. Same square footage. Same square footage, same year it was built. The only difference is they have a vertical loop climate master geothermal system.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Their bill for that same July was $158.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Wow. Barely over half. And the pattern holds remarkably steady across his entire old data set.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah. Does it scale up?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Oh, yeah. We can scale up the house size and look at Canadian County. He has a 3,400 square foot two-story home with a conventional 14 CRAC.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Okay, bigger house.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

They paid $410 for the month, but a comparable 3,300 square foot home just two miles down the road, running a horizontal geothermal loop, paid $215.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

That is just wild.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

It is. Geothermal users are consistently paying roughly 45 to 55% of what their conventional neighbors pay at peak summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I was looking at these numbers and uh honestly trying to wrap my head around the sheer mechanics of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

It's a lot to process.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Because if you and I are driving the exact same size car on the exact same highway, hauling the exact same amount of weight, but my car magically gets double the gas mileage just because of the engine under the hood, how is that physically possible? Right. What is actually happening in the backyard to make that happen?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Aaron Powell Well, it is pure

Why AC Efficiency Collapses In Heat

SPEAKER_00 3:20

unyielding thermodynamics.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Okay, hit me with the science.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Aaron Powell To understand the why, we have to um fundamentally rethink what an air conditioner actually does. I mean, most of us think an AC creates cold air and blows it into the room.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Right, like a refrigerator just blowing cold air at you.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Aaron Ross Powell Exactly. But it doesn't. It moves heat. It is a heat extraction machine. It absorbs heat from the inside of your house and pushes it outside.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Okay, so if your house is 75 degrees inside and it's 105 degrees outside.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Which is very common in an Oklahoma July.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Your conventional AC system is basically trying to push that 75 degree heat out into an environment that is already boiling over with 105 degree heat.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yes. And physics dictates that heat naturally wants to move from hot to cold, not the other way around.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Oh wow. So it's fighting nature.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

The conventional system is fighting a massive uphill battle. The hotter it gets outside, the harder the compressor has to work to reject that heat. And you know, the more electrical amps it pulls from your panel.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Which totally exposes what Hartzell calls the sear illusion in these manufacturer brochures.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Oh, the sear ratings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

We see these massive sear ratings, seasonal energy efficiency ratios pasted on the side of new units, but those numbers are calculated in a highly controlled laboratory environment, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Right. Where the outdoor temperature is set to a perfectly pleasant 82 degrees.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

82 degrees. I mean, when the real world hits 105 degrees, that advertised efficiency just completely collapses.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

It does. The field data shows conventional AC efficiency drops by 25 to 35%, right at the exact moment you need it most.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Here's where it gets really interesting, though. Geothermal completely bypasses this entire problem.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

It doesn't even interact with the outdoor air.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Exactly. It takes the heat from your house and dumps it into a ground loop buried deep in the soil.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

And in central Oklahoma, that soil naturally stays at a highly stable 60 to 70 degrees all year round.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

So the temperature difference is inherently in your favor.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Always. Instead of pushing heat uphill into a 105-degree inferno, the geothermal system lets heat flow naturally downhill into a 65-degree underground heat sink.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

The physics work with the machine rather than against it.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

It's like um it's like trying to sweep dust out of your front door during a raging Oklahoma dust storm.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Oh, that's a great way to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Right. The wind just blows it right back in, and you're fighting the environment until you're exhausted. But with geothermal, you are sweeping that same dust into a calm, bottomless underground vault. The resistance just disappears.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Aaron Powell And if that extreme summer heat exhausts a normal system, well, the extreme winter cold shatters it entirely. Really? Oh yeah. The biggest annual savings with geothermal

Geothermal Uses Stable Ground Temps

SPEAKER_00 6:08

actually happen when the seasons flip. Let's look at what happens when it gets freezing.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Aaron Powell See, I always assumed geothermal was primarily about surviving the summer.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Most people do.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

But Hartzell's notes make it clear the winter gap is where the real financial damage happens with conventional units.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Let's break down how heating works. A conventional air source heat pump operates on the same principle we just discussed, just reversed.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

It tries to extract ambient heat from the outside air to warm your house.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Aaron Powell Hold on. I've always been confused by this. How on earth does a machine extract heat from air that feels freezing cold to us? It's weird, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Say it's 15 degrees outside. How is there any heat to extract?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

It comes down to the refrigerant running through the system. These liquid refrigerants have incredibly low boiling points. I mean, often well below zero degrees Fahrenheit.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah. So even if it's 15 degrees outside, that outside air is technically still warmer than the ultra cold liquid refrigerant.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

So when the outside air blows over the outdoor coils, the refrigerant absorbs whatever trace heat is there and boils into a gas.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

The compressor then takes that gas and squeezes it tight. And when you compress a gas, its temperature skyrockets.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Aaron Powell So that newly generated high heat is what gets blown into your ductwork.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

So it's squeezing trace amounts of heat out of freezing air. But there has to be a physical limit to how well that works in central Oklahoma, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

There absolutely is. Once the outdoor temperature drops below 25 degrees, there is simply not enough ambient heat left in the air to extract efficiently.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

And what happens then?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

The heat pump's efficiency drops by about 50%, just falls behind. And when the thermostat realizes the house is getting cold, it automatically triggers the backup electric heat strips to save the day.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Oh, the heat strips. Hard cell refers to these heat strips as essentially being a giant toaster hidden inside your ductwork.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

That's exactly what they are.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

You are heating air by running raw electricity through a metal coil. When those strips kick on, they use three to five times the amount of electrical power that the heat pump itself uses.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

It is an enormous localized power drain. You're just hemorrhaging electricity.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Meanwhile, the geothermal system is just sitting there in 15-degree weather, totally ignoring the freezing air.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Right, because it is pulling heat out of that same cozy, stable 60-degree ground loop. It runs at full efficiency no matter how cold the wind chill gets.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Which is why Hart Sell's geothermal customers are seeing January heating bills that are 40 to 60% lower than comparable homes using conventional all-electric heating. It's incredible. But beyond just the monthly bill, we have to look at the lifespan reality here. Because dodging the extreme weather doesn't just save electricity, it saves the physical machinery.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

This is a huge point. A conventional outdoor condenser unit just sits outside its entire life.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Getting beaten up by the weather.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Right. It bakes in the relentless summer sun, it gets battered by hailstorms, it rusts in the rain. Sounds miserable. And its compressor cycles under extreme mechanical stress every single hot day. Hartsoul notes that a conventional outdoor unit in Oklahoma typically lasts 12 to 15 years before it simply gives out.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Whereas a geothermal compressor lives entirely indoors.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

It sits inside a climate-controlled garage or utility closet. It never sees hail, it never bakes in the sun, and it always operates against that low stress 60-degree loop temperature.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

So because of this, the indoor geothermal equipment routinely lasts 20 to 25 years.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And what about the loop itself?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

The ground loop itself, the high-density polyethylene pipes buried out in your yard has a documented, proven lifespan of over 50 years when installed correctly.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

50 years. I mean, I assumed the maintenance on a fancy underground system must be exorbitant, but Hartzall's pricing

Winter Heating And The Heat Strip Trap

SPEAKER_01 9:58

dispels that entirely.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, let's talk about the maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

His geobasic maintenance plan is $360 a year. The Geo Plus is $428. And the premium Geo360, which includes loop repressurization, is $499.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

And what's crazy is the conventional maintenance plan starts at that exact same $360 price point. Really? Yep. But the conventional unit is vastly more prone to weather-related breakdown. I mean, with geothermal, there is no outdoor condenser coil getting clogged with cottonwood seeds.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Oh, those seeds are the worst.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

They really are. And there's no fan motor exposed to the freezing rain.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Even the repair pricing is standard across the board. A $99 dispatch fee, a $111 diagnostic fee, a $229 tune-up.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

And full rebuilds start around $3,500.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So you aren't paying a massive premium for day-to-day fixes.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

No, you really aren't. Which raises an important question, I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

If the equipment lasts almost twice as long and costs half as much to run and operates with vastly fewer weather-related breakdowns, why isn't there a drilling rig in every single new housing development in Oklahoma?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, that is the elephant in the room. We have to talk about the 2026 financial reality.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

We cannot sugarcoat the sticker shock.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Definitely not. Installing a residential geothermal system in central Oklahoma, appropriately sized for a typical 2,200 to 2,800 square foot home, is a major capital investment.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

You are looking at an installed price ranging from $22,000 to $32,000.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

It is a massive chunk of change. And for anyone who researched this a few years ago, we have to deliver some bad news.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

The tax credit.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Right. If you read an old article talking about a massive federal tax credit covering 30% of the cost, you need to wipe that from your spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Because it's gone. Hartzell's notes make this crystal clear. If an installer in 2026 is trying to sell you a system based on that federal credit, they are actively lying to you. Fortunately, though, the Oklahoma utility companies have stepped up to fill that void.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

They have, because they want to reduce the strain on their grids during peak summer hours, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Right. So they are doing the heavy lifting to make the math work for homeowners through aggressive local rebates.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Let's get into the weeds on these rebates because they are substantial.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Seek Energy, which covers about 10 counties, though notably not Kingfisher County itself, offers a rebate of $2,000 per ton of capacity.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

$2,000 a ton, up to a massive $24,000 total.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah. But let's pause there and define that term for the listener because ton can be really confusing.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, we are talking about the physical weight of the machinery, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Exactly. In HVAC terminology, a ton is a historical measurement of heat extraction capacity.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Historical how?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

It refers to the amount of heat required to melt one ton of solid ice over a 24-hour period.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Oh wow. That's a very vivid image.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Right. In modern numbers, a one-ton AC unit can extract 12,000 British thermal units of heat per hour. So a typical house might need a three or four-ton system to handle the load.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Okay, that makes perfect sense. So if you have a four-ton system, Seek Energy is writing a massive check.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Huge check.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

But I was looking at the OG and E territory, and they structure it a bit differently.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

How so?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

They offer $1,000 per ton plus an additional $1,500 per HVAC unit, maxing out at a $3,000 cap.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Gotcha. And Simaran Electric is offering $600 in the Kingfisher area.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Plus, there are other active, well-funded rebate programs right now through CVAC, OVC, and KPWA.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Okay, so let's walk through a specific OGE example so you can see how this actually hits your bank account.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yes, let's do the math.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Say you are installing a standard 410 system. The initial sticker price for the install is $28,000. You apply that OGE rebate of $5,500, which drops your net cost to $22,500.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

You then have to compare that against what you were going to spend anyway to replace your failing conventional system, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Exactly, because you have to buy something.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Right. A high-end 18 Sier conventional install

Lifespan And Maintenance Reality Check

SPEAKER_01 14:25

runs about $12,000.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

So the true difference, the actual premium you are paying to upgrade your home to geothermal is $10,500.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Let's do the payback math on that $10,500 premium based on the monthly savings we saw earlier.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Okay, Leah.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Say you're saving an average of $130 a month during the five brutal summer months.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

And $80 a month during the four coldest winter months. That totals roughly $970 a year in pure energy savings.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Aaron Powell And Herzl notes that realistically it's more like $1,100 a year if we are being conservative.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Aaron Powell Because of rate hikes.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, we all know OGE and OEC have rate hikes queued up. The cost of electricity is only trending upward.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

That's a really good point. Because if you divide that $10,500 premium by $1,100 in annual savings, your payback period is between nine and ten years.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Just under a decade.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Exactly. After year 10, the system has entirely paid for its own upgrade cost.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

And remember the lifespan we talked about earlier. Since the indoor equipment lasts 20 to 25 years, for the next 10 to 15 years after that payback date, you are just quietly pocketing eleven hundred dollars a year.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

It is a brilliant financial maneuver on paper.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

It is.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

However, installing one of these systems in the real world requires a messy reality check.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, we need to talk about the honest downsides.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Right, because geothermal is not a magic wand that works instantly for every single property.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

First and foremost is the capital requirement. Even with those utility rebates easing the burden, you still need to have the upfront cash available.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Or you need to qualify for substantial financing to cover that initial $22,000 to $32,000 net cost before the rebates process.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

And then there is the installation chaos.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

It's a big project.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

We aren't just talking about a couple of guys swapping out a metal box next to your patio in an afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

If you need a vertical loop system, you are going to have a literal drilling rig parked in your front yard for a day or two, drilling hundreds of feet down into the earth.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

And if you have the space for a horizontal loop, which is often cheaper, you have to be prepared for the trenching.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Oh, the trenching.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

You might have up to half an acre of your property excavated.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Half an acre.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

The yard will be completely torn up, and you will have to replant and re-landscape afterward. It is a major physical disruption to your property.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

And Hartzlow points out another major caveat for older homes, your ductwork.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

You cannot ignore the ductwork.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

You really can't. You cannot just hook a state-of-the-art, high-efficiency geothermal unit up to a leaky, failing duct system.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Because pumping perfectly conditioned air into your unsealed attic or crawl space completely negates the efficiency gains. So what does this all mean for you as the listener? Buying a geothermal unit for a house with bad ductwork is basically like putting a finely tuned Ferrari engine into a boat with holes in the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

That is exactly what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

You are going to sink regardless of how incredibly efficient the engine is. You have to fix the boat first.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

If we connect this to the bigger picture, it requires holistic thinking about your home's infrastructure. You can't just slap a band-aid on it. Right. Which leads to the final reality check, the shortage of actual installation expertise. You cannot just hire a weekend warrior or a generic contractor to install this.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Aaron Powell Because the ground loop is the heart of the entire system.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yes. If it is sized incorrectly or if the flow rate is wrong, you will completely ruin that 50-year lifespan.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

You need someone who is IGSHPA accredited and NAT certified.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Let's clarify what those acronyms mean because they aren't just rubber stamp certificates you get from a quick online quiz. Right. IGSHPA stands for the International Ground Source Heat Pump Association. And NATE is North American Technician Excellence.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

So what does that actually mean for the installation?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Well, when an installer has these credentials, it means they understand heavy fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, and soil thermal conductivity.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Okay, serious science.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah. They know how to test the earth in your specific yard to ensure it can actually absorb and release the required amount of heat.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Aaron Powell Which Dave Hartzall holds both of. He's a climate master geoweed dealer with 4.8 stars across 276 reviews.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

You need someone with that level of specific, targeted experience because the installation quality entirely dictates

Upfront Cost And The Lost Tax Credit

SPEAKER_01 18:55

the return on your investment.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Absolutely. So if we synthesize everything we've looked at today, the upfront cost of geothermal is undeniably higher, and the federal tax credit is firmly in the rearview mirror for 2026.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

But thanks to aggressive local utility rebates in Oklahoma, a geothermal system effectively pays off its own premium in about nine to ten years. It brutally cuts those extreme summer and winter utility bills in half, and the indoor equipment lasts twice as long because it escapes the punishing Oklahoma sun and hail.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

It represents a profound shift in how we manage the comfort and infrastructure of our homes.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

So if you happen to live in the central Oklahoma service area, that's Kingfisher, Canadian, Garfield, Logan, Blaine, Major, or Northwest Oklahoma County, Dave Hartzell is actively offering to show you these side-by-side bills in person.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Highly recommend taking a look at that data.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

You can get a free, completely no pressure estimate to see if your property qualifies. Just call him at 4005-375-4822 or go to hartsellshear.com. That's 405-375-4822.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

You know, as we wrap up this deep dive, there's a broader philosophical question I think is worth mulling over.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

We are so heavily conditioned to view our home's heating and cooling system as just another appliance, right? Like a white metal box that we reluctantly replace every 12 to 15 years when it finally breaks down in the middle of a heat wave.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Right, it's just a grudge purchase.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Exactly. But what if we shifted our perspective? What if we started viewing the ordinary dirt beneath our lawns not just as landscaping, but as a permanent high capacity thermal battery?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Oh, that's a cool way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

If the ground beneath your feet truly holds the key to long term energy independence, are you willing to endure a little yard work and disruption today to tap into it for the next half century?