Was Robert Parker Bordeaux's best advertiser? The Week in Wine Episode 34

Don opens rosé as a crowd pleaser to some dogged palates while Olly opens a De Moor Chablis for a mate. The most-wanted Tequilas tops our news stats this week while California hogs the rest of the limelight. Don looks at the latest out of Napa Valley where vineyards are getting tricky to shift and Cabernet Sauvignon may be on the way out. Talking of which, we look at a story covering the rise of white wine and ask if white varieties might be a good substitute? Also, Randall Grahm's state-of-the-nation piece continues to get eyeballs. As for the latest news, it's over to Bordeaux where a major local wine merchant has suggests the region "got lazy" while US wine critic Robert Parker was dominating the headlines and did not do enough to promote its wines independently of the Maryland-based guru; a bureaucratic hiccup stops non-alcoholic wine production in Italy; Castel launches its own Champagne brand with an interesting choice of name given the very public spat between the company's family heirs and the CEO; a former wine shop employee is charged with stealing €200,000 of wine; Madiran launches its new "Bleu Tannat" young, fresh, red wine brand; there's more woe for Dijon's Cité de la Gastronomie et du Vin wine center; and a new Papal cuvée is one for the émigrés...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to the Wine News Podcast from Wine Signature, our weekly look at the headlines from across the world of wine with your hosts, Editor Don Kavanaugh and Wine Writer Ollie Stiles. For more on all the stories we discuss, go to winesearvature.com.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Good morning, Don! Good morning, Ollie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Excellent. Um top of the world, top of the world as ever. Another beautiful morning. Is it?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Oh. It's quite grey here. It's quite grey.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Oh, is it? Oh.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Well, where I am, the the weather's absolutely slow. A beautiful morning. Nice, crisp, sunny, blue skies.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Did you have anything nice to drink at the weekend? I didn't have anything particularly memorable, but what I'll tell you what I did drink a lot of on the weekend was rose. I'm not possibly the first person you'd imagine when you think of rose. But what happened was like because we caught up with some friends and so forth. And I've noticed certainly among my friends, there are people who will drink certain wines and won't drink other wines. So we get some people prefer a Pinot Gris, some people will prefer Chardonnay, some people prefer Sauvignon Blanc, perhaps, or some people prefer reds of various hues. And so as a result, it can be quite expensive when you have people around because you're opening plenty of bottles, you know, it's something for everyone. So part of the um thing I had was that well, rose kind of appeals to everybody, yeah, certainly amongst my friend group. And so, yeah, we drank quite a few roses over the weekend, and I have to say, they're really good, you know. Okay, they're not again, as usual, they're not mind you tend to think of a great deal, but right they slash back beautifully, they go well with a wide range of foods, and um they lubricate the conversation spectacularly well. Excellent. So that was it. Um, I I needed, and and to be honest, I needed a lot of social lubrication over the weekend. I I I made the fatal mistake of listening. I was you know, do you ever get to that stage of the evening when everybody's gone home and you don't quite you're finishing off a glass of wine, you don't quite want to go to bed yet, and you think I'll have a squiz through YouTube and see what's on there. Oh dear. And and you fall down a rabbit hole. Well, sadly, the rabbit hole I went down was the one that involved our podcast. Oh dear.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

And I I No, I shouldn't say I shouldn't say oh dear. What what were what were the learnings?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Oh the learnings were I have an appalling speaking voice. I I genuinely it almost shocked me into a vow of silence listening to my voice. Um it's terrible, but it's terrible. I mean, I know everybody says they hate their voice when they hear it, but I really, really hate my voice when I hear it. And if anybody thinks that their their inner voice, the one they hear in their head, is anything remotely like the one that comes out of your mouth, I beg you go and record yourself and have a listen. It's a very worrying and and indeed sobering experience. But anyway, anyway, that was um that that was that was that was my take out. Um I I love the subject matter, it's and you sounded magnificent, you sounded professional almost. And um, but my own thick-tongued mumble, if I may. Oh quote my quote my quote my namesake Patrick Kavner, right? Um, the poet, for those of you who don't know, I just think he's some guy who lived down the road from me when I was growing up. He um he literally wrote that in a poem one time about um how he the the the voice in his head was had the ringing tones of Apollo, and um, as it turns out, all he had was a thick-tongued mumble. But anyway, um enough of my thick-tongued mumble. Um, I I did enjoy that subject, Matter of them. I thought I thought they were good, I thought they were fun. I can see why our listenership is growing in leaps and bounds. Well, in sort of tops, skips, and jumps, perhaps. But at least it's growing, it's going in the right direction. So, what did you drink on the weekend?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Uh, I had a lovely bottle of D'Amour uh Shablis, the Alice and Olivier D'Amour, Bel Air and Claudie Shabley 2022, which was lovely. Marvellous. But a lovely natural Shablis. That was really, really nice, really good. Uh, good friend of mine's birthday, so we met up and cracked open a bottle and had a good afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Brilliant!

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yes, so it was great.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

So it was really good. On to the news, shall we? On to the news. Let's let's do that, shall we? What were the most what were our most read stories last week, Don? Well, the most read story was one I could almost have predicted from the moment I pressed publish on it. Right. And that was Saturday's story of the world's most wanted tequilas.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

No, really, so that's that's two days old.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yep. Wow. And it's outdone quite a few, yeah, it's it's completely outstripped every everything else. But this is this is I mean, it is about tequila, so it's a big thing. I mean, tequila's huge, especially in the States, where most of our readers are. And uh I mean, it's hard to grasp just how big it is. Uh I mean the the US is responsible for about 63% of the uh global uh tequila market. Yeah, and the global tequila market is not insignificant. We're talking sort of uh 20 odd billion a year, yeah. You know, and that's set to grow according to all the uh the all all the market research I can find, despite the fact that people you know are saying the sky is falling in and nobody's drinking anymore.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Drinking tequila.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Well, the tequila tequila, and uh I suppose if you had it in Mescal, it'd be even bigger, but the tequila market is due to be about 33 billion dollars worth by 2029, 2030, something like that, which is not far away now. But that's when you think about it, it's a huge, huge market. One thing I did find really interesting in it though, is that for all the searches we've got for it, obviously most of them come from the United States, but number two is India, which out which outstrips Mexico, which I thought was hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

That um yeah, well, a huge consumer base. If you've got a huge consumer base in this interested in tequila, how I wonder how much tequila is exported to India.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Well, that's that's probably my next move, would be I should really go and have a look at that, shouldn't I? Yeah, uh I was curious though. It's probably it's probably worth worth searching out, of course, as well. I I would I should imagine in Mexico not having had much experience of living in Mexico, or indeed any experience of living in Mexico, but I would suggest that you probably don't need wine searcher to find tequila. If you're in Mexico. Well, yeah. Unless you're looking for specific brands.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

I would have thought, yeah, specific brands. Of which there's like three. I didn't realise that Fortalefa Los Abuelos was a was a it was a big thing. I mean, you know, lovers of tequila, especially stateside, will absolutely crucify me for saying that, I'm sure. But I was quite surprised that Fortalefa Los Abuelos was the brand.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Oh yes, yep, without a shadow of a doubt. Um and it has been for the past three years as well. I mean, it's it seems to have a seems to have a death grip around the around the throat of the tequila market, certainly amongst the consumer end of things. But now the other story that I want to talk about is Napa considers a post-Cabernet future. Uh that was Blake's story on Thursday, yeah. It was Blake's story on Thursday, yes, but well, it's getting to the stage where people are saying, not just people are saying that Napa should look beyond Cabernet, because people have been saying that for ages. People saying Napa has too much cabinet, people are saying just get rid of it because it isn't selling. Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Uh we touched on this, we touched on this last week, didn't we, when we were talking about Napa Cabernet.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

We did, indeed, because we had a we had a Napa insider who was saying that you know that basically what happens is there are you know, of the 400 wineries in Napa, that you know, at least 200 of them all make $100 plus cabernets that all taste increasingly similar. Right. But now the thing is Napa, the most expensive agricultural land in America, it's not really that anymore, if you know what I mean. Right. Not just Napa has too much cabinet, but the problem is other than grapevines. What's Napa supposed to do with the land? Because they have rules there, so where it they have the agricultural preserve there where it has to be agriculture, it can't be suddenly turned into housing or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Um so the idea is that perhaps they should stop growing cabernet, except in the areas that suit it best, and perhaps move on to other wines and other grape varieties at least. And yeah, well, I mean, why wouldn't you? People aren't going to people can't sell. Yeah, um and it kind of it well go on. But there's a section of the story that relates to Alpha Omega winery. Okay, so there's a winery that sells expensive cabinet. It's you know, you'd think we won't be short of money, but they stopped paying their bill, they defaulted on a bank loan on a Mount Veter vineyard. It's a six million dollar price tag on this vineyard when they bought it, and they just said, you know what, it's not worth our while. We're just throwing good money after bad, and they allowed the bank to take it back. However, uh the as the the the property expert in the story said the bank aren't gonna be happy about that. What's the bank gonna do with what's a bank gonna do with a vineyard? Yeah, right. Um also the fact that the in the current economic climate, nobody's looking to buy a huge amount of agricultural land, um, especially not to grow grapes. Yeah, it just there's plenty of people growing grapes where you can just you know you buy the grapes and make your wine out of them. You don't need to be growing your own. Um, you know, there's the Benesser vineyards in St. Helena is going up for auction next month. It failed to attract a buyer in the last two years. Oh wow, wow, but they were asking 35 million for the for the vineyard two years ago. And yeah, they're not gonna get that. I mean, it's you know, what are you gonna do? Go back to planting nuts. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Yeah, so you're basically you're you're you're you're kind of lumped with this asset.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, and it's it's not necessarily an asset anymore. In fact, it's bordering on liability.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um but what was quite interesting though, talking of talking of that, like what do you do with it, it kind of dovetails quite nicely with I think was it Kathleen Wilcox's story about white wine this week? Yes, indeed. White wine's winning streak, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

And this is it, and that's another yes, that's another one of the um popular stories this week that white wines have. And to be honest, I saw an odd thing in our search results a few years back where by it used to be that by September interest in white wines and rose wines had peaked and was dropping off as people moved towards winter and in the northern hemisphere and looked towards big red wines. So red wine red wine searches would go up from September through till March, and then it would swing around again. And yeah, in the summer it was white wines. But a couple of years ago I noticed that these things hadn't happened like this, and that there were almost as many searches for whites and roses in December and January as there were in June and July. Right. So it does it it's I mean, it this is not something that suddenly happened, but it's it's definitely a thing now. Right. Um, it is most definitely a thing that uh red wines are being supplanted in popularity by roses and whites, but whites particularly. And again, as you say, this stuff tells nicely with the story about the post-Cabernet future, because there's a lot to be said for planting Sauvignon Blanc or Shannon Blanc, even in especially on the valley floor in Napa. Yeah, um, so you know, who knows? That's that may be why it's gone. And I'll just point out one more thing before we move on from the most read stories is that the fourth uh the sorry, the third most read story of the week was from the previous week, and it's I'm delighted to say it's Randall Graham's wonderful take on the um on the current state of the of the California wine market. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic story. Yeah, it was which fits in with exactly what we've been talking about as well. What were your favorite stories of the week? Uh I think my favorite story was out of shadow of a doubt, the post-Cabernet future for Napa.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

And and the white wine's winning streak. I mean, that was a I think it's reflecting what's actually happening. That the white wines are just taking over, and not just we're not just talking about Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc. You know, we're looking at Alberino, obviously, is a big one. Yeah, um, Pinot Grigio will always be they'll always be popular, but people are looking at Felangina, Verdejo, Fermentino, you know. I mean, it's rightly so. Rightly so people are looking for them. I mean, Fiano, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Um, it's a great fiano is a great variety, it's it's it's tricky. You can't always you can't always produce an amazing wine from Fiano, but you can produce some nice stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Well, see, the thing about it is as well, you can produce some reliably good stuff. Do you know what I mean? For me, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Um they have character. Those are also some of those Italian grapes, um Vermentino too, they have character, which I quite like.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But the likes of Torontes as well, yeah. You know, um, a great grape variety, and one that I thought had been it was on the it was on the cusp of greatness, I remember back in the early 90s in the UK, where Cafayette were doing a Torontes that were uh from Argentina, yeah, um, were doing uh a Torontes that's sold by the truckload. Um you know, so you think, oh yeah, this is it, it's gonna be the next big thing, but no, Chardonnay seemed to wipe everything out instead. Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc instead. But anyway, it's nice to see it's making uh something of a comeback and having fun again. But yeah, so that they would have been my favorite stories of the week. Excellent. So shall we move on to um Sunday? Should we move on to Sunday, shall we? Because this was a big deal Sunday, you know. After the previous week's Jeremiah of just awful, awful things happening. I I read this with with trepidation, but almost between my fingers in the hope that there was going to be some good news in it.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Well, I yeah, I mean, there's good news. Well, I don't know, you call it good. There's interesting news. Should we say that? There's interesting news.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, let's look at that.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Uh so the big story was that Bordeaux had got lazy due to Robert Parker. Uh, this is a story from uh an interview with Fabrice Bernard, who's the CEO of Millésima, who will which uh Millesima is a wine merchant based in Bordeaux, which will be familiar to many, many people in the wine trade. For those who aren't in the wine trade, it is a big, big wine merchant. So one of the bigger ones in the Bordeaux ecosystem. And he in he had an interview with French wine news publication Vitisphere, and basically said that Bordeaux's problem was that while Robert Parker was knocking around, which would be sort of from the years, you probably go from the 80s all the way through to probably the 2010s. Yeah, just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah, kind of kind of when he when he hung up his pen.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah, so you're talking about 35, 40 odd years of Robert Parker and for better or worse, bringing a lot of spotlight onto Bordeaux. And he basically said the problem was that because Parker was around, Parker had done all the promotion and binging up of the estates for them, and the Borderland got lazy in terms of how to market their wines getting out to consumers and the rest of it. And basically that was that was an issue. It's an it's an interesting take, I thought.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I do too. I think it's and I think it's the there's more than a grain of truth in it.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the interesting thing for me was that I mean Parker was whether you liked him or loathed him, and there were enough on on both sides for you know for journalists like myself to have you know a field day writing about Robert Parker for years and years. Uh, he what it's important to remember was that Parker wasn't always positive entirely about Bordeaux. He had certain favourites, he was open to criticism for certain favourites, he unashamedly gave the wines that he loved big scores, but he also slammed people, he he slammed estates rightly or wrongly, he was quite outspoken about them. And I think that's really important to remember in this modern age where all the publicists want all of the focus to be positive all of the time. That actually you're better off for generating you know good interest and long-term interest in having you know in in encouraging maybe not just positive stuff, but you know, you need a bit of positive criticism, you need a bit of criticism, you need a bit of personality. You're not gonna please everyone.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

That's not no, but but try and explain that to a PR person.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

I know, this is the thing. We're we're we're talking on the same lines here. Anyway, so anyway, this is a really interesting interview. Uh, and he said that you know, for there are 40 wineries in Bordeaux, and we could probably we could probably go through them and name them, um, which had a strong brand image, which had no problem selling, and he said the rest of it is gonna be tough. Yeah, the rest of them are gonna have a real rough time, um, or sort of looking at this. Is you know, this joins a canon of other interviews in a similar vein that we've seen for the last two years, I reckon. So it's gonna be interesting to see what comes out of this on primer. Lots of people have sort of doom and gloomed it, but we're obviously at a at an interesting and it may possibly an inflection point in terms of on primer as to you know how it's gonna all work out uh and whether whether it will in the future. But this is interesting to have this kind of criticism again from negos or from wine merchants in the region itself.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

This is true. It's interesting that uh we've literally just published a story this morning. We'll discuss it more fully next week, but and it's a story by Margaret Rand, it's a roundup of sort of negose feeling and uh merchant feeling prior to On Premier, which of course starts today or tomorrow uh tomorrow, technically.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

This is the official week, isn't it? I mean, people have been in Bordeaux for the last two weeks going back and forth. Still no sign of a score.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

But this is the official week, yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Um I missed no, I mean I miss James Suckling. I really like at least James Suckling, he'd have got his scores out like two weeks ago, and we'd all be talking about that, and then people would be scrabbling over trying to get theirs. But no, this is we've had two we've had two weeks of people in on premier silence on scores, and you know, we won't get scores out, I I reckon, for another week or so.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Oh no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Um come on, guys, come on, like today's story suggests the prices are likely to rise.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yes, well, that was from my interview with Francois Xavier Maroto, yes, who's the head of the UGCB, he implied the same thing. He said, you know, prices had gone down in 2003, 23 and 24. And he says he was sort of saying, you know, even if prices go up this year, nod nod, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, uh, we'll you'll still get a good deal because 20 or 30 percent against 2024 is still a good deal.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, it's per well, uh the the the they're they're looking at probably 10 percent, I think seems to be the oh yeah, the kind of agreed thing. So I mean, you know, and and given that the 2025s are quite you know, it was a smaller vintage and better than 2024 as well. Yeah, although obviously 2024 will be offering better drinking, but yeah, it though the whole Bordeaux thing, and obviously we're talking a lot about Bordeaux because it is on premier week, yeah, and on premier month, and then the various price releases afterwards, which can stretch into June. Um, it's not exactly it's not exactly a cut and dried sort of a campaign, is it? Uh no, no, no, isn't it? But anyway, anyway, yeah. So we'll be you'll have to excuse us if we're talking a lot about Bordeaux for the next few weeks, to be honest. Yes, there may be there may be a little bit more in it.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Some people want to hear about that, but yeah, I agree. Shall we move on then in that on that on that note?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Let's do that, correct. So the next story was that bureaucracy halts no alcohol wine production in Italy. This is quite uh an amusing story, and that basically Italy is already given the green light to to producing no and low alcohol wines. And this happened back, I think, back at the turn of the year, like the in the new year. What's happened now is that suddenly producers have realized that actually, because the production of no no alcohol wine involves basically stripping ethyl alcohol out of wine, you end up producing ethyl alcohol, quite concentrated alcohol, basically. Well, that's not wine, that's a separate product. Even if it's a byproduct, you've still produced it. And so you customs says you need to have a license to produ a special license to produce ethyl alcohol. So even though you're not, even though it's not what you're aiming for, you're aiming for no alcohol wine, the byproduct of it is ethyl alcohol, and customs are saying, Well, you can't you can't produce whatever, whatever it is, 96% alcohol, and and not have a customs license to do so. Everyone's suddenly like, oh, oh no. Indeed. So the so all these these producers, although there's all sorts of regulations and stuff, there's these producers that want to make no alcohol wines have suddenly found themselves going, Oh, I need to change my tax license to cover the production of alcohol, like pure alcohol, pretty much. So that was an issue. So that's sort of that's another stumbling block. Castell launches its own champagne. The interesting story about this was then this sort of follows Castell acquiring Champagne Negos brand Mallard in 2024. So the interesting thing here was that the the brand has been dubbed Angel, Angel. Angel Castell, but it was named after Castell, founder Pierre Castell's brother. Now, Angel Castell, his sons, the sort of, I suppose, the nephews of the founder Pierre Castell, and and you know, some of them are quite big on the on the uh Castell board, are locked in this bizarre but strangely compelling drama over who actually runs Castell. Because for those that don't know, uh Castell, massive drinks brand, is initially founded by Pierre Castell. Pierre Castell is now 99 years old, he stepped back and sort of CEO Gregory Clare has stepped in and is sort of resisting attempts by the Castell heirs, of which, you know, uh Pierre Castell's daughter Romy, the these cousins Alain Castell, and I think his brother is Philippe, which who are the sons of Angéle Castell. They're all trying to get rid of Gregory Clare. Gregory Clare is holding on as CEO. It's just the most interne sign um scrap you've you've ever witnessed. It's quite something to go into it and to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

It's quite it's quite funny when um you get these family breakdowns like oh no, I don't mean funny. No, I don't mean funny, ha ha. It's good, it's quite it's it's odd, but it's also almost guaranteed that somebody starts a successful business, passes it on to the kids, and the kids start fighting.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

And and they so they I think they've sort of banded together. So this has had the opposite effect where they've actually brought the family together.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, but that's what's that's why this one's so so weird, like that. It's it's because it's normally it's the other way around, but now they're actually they've they've found somebody who will unite them.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

They found exactly united, like nothing you like, it's like a common enemy, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So well, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

What's interesting though is to just I I suspect the level of anger and hate, and it's very rare to find companies be this open. I mean, I I doubt they wanted to be, but they're quite there's a lot of press about their sort of antagonism. It's very unusual in the sort of business world to hear about boardroom spats like of this level.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Well, somebody's clearly briefing, uh, I would imagine both sides are. Yeah, so it's quite briefing heavily against the other.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

It's really acrimonious. Anyway, let's move on. Uh, employee stole 200,000 euros of wine. This is the I I suppose the classic of the genre, if we will. A 55-year-old former employee of a wine shop in southwest France has reportedly confessed to stealing 200,000 euros worth of wine and champagne from his own shop. That's quite a lot, isn't it? So, yeah, I think he did it over quite a few years. I think eight eight or so years he'd um he'd been squirrelling away bottles, and yeah, I th I suspect the owners had their suspicions, but um, I mean, the suspect was actually previously let go by the business last year. But yeah, uh and then you know, he'd squirreled it away, and apparently the police discovered the bottles at his home.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

I have to say, as a kind of just to point out, I mean, even if it was over eight years, 200 grands worth of wine, that's a lot of money to be a lot of wine to be sticking under your jumper and walking out with, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 25:23

It's it's a lot of for me, it's a lot. I mean, you'll know better than this, you know this better than I will. For me, it's a lot of question marks and stock takes.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Oh, yeah. Well, it depends. If the guy was the manager of the of the shop, it's a lot easier to manipulate the audit.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

I mean, if he's just a guy who works there on a casual or part-time basis, or you know, um he's just a just an employee, a general um employee, yeah, I would imagine harder. Although, let's be honest, there's a certain amount of trust given when it comes to stock taking that you know the people who are doing the counting are actually counting correctly.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

So I mean, right.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And I suppose over the space of about seven or eight years, you've really only got a sort of mislay, shall we say, what one bottle of DRC a year? And it kind of adds up.

unknown 26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

I suspect that DRC wasn't the stuff he was scrolling away, but I I could be wrong. Well, yes, we might find we might find out when they have the play hearing, which is in October.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Oh, that's yes, we should we should keep an eye on that. Yeah, anyway. But also what happened is we got a new wine style.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yes, yes. So well, this is interesting though, because I this it was hard to work out exactly what had happened because I went through the the updated um production protocols for Madiron, which so we're we're over in Madiron, southwest France, the flagship brand for the flagship region for Tanat, the great variety, although the Uruguayans would maybe maybe debate that now. Yeah, uh so Bleutana is their new young wine category. So Bleutana isn't actually officially a thing, it's uh I suppose it's like a regional brand. They haven't they don't actually mention Bleutana as a thing in its in the official production legislation, yeah. Although some of them although some of the news stories would suggest otherwise. So what they have actually done is they've they've dropped the minimum colour intensity for the production of Madiron. I mean this is where we get into the scientific weeds. For those who know, if you've used a spectrophotometer, some some of you who've done who've done wine science like me will have done so. Uh you know, I I can barely remember what the hell happens, but they've it lowered the index, colour index from 12 to 6, which means about as much as it does, you know, to anyone, unless you're sitting sat in front of a spectrophotometer with a bunch of I don't know, I'm guessing exponential graph curves in front of you. Anyway, so they've they've drawn it.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Who would you be without an exponential graph curve?

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Right. So they've dropped the minimum colour intensity, so they've really dropped it down quite low. Um, they have up to the minimum amount of Tanat required in Madyron from 50 to 60 percent, and they've introduced a new variety, Mont Saint-Noir, to the list of accessory varieties. Anyway, Blutanat basically is a young Tannat wine made in Madron, which is lighter colour and making a lighter red wine, and that's it, basically. They've they've dropped the colour intensity as far as everyone else is concerned. Then, you know, Bleutanat can be a thing. And so look out for Blutanat, supposed to have an approachable price tag of seven euros. What are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Oh hey, sounds good to me. Also, can I just point out that anything that's less tannic coming out of Madaran is great for me? I'm absolutely delighted with that. Um the the the the tannets I've had in the past have just literally pretty much stripped the enamel off my teeth. Grippy. Oh, come on. You get a good you you go to a supermarket supermarché in France, yeah, go and pick go and pick up a bottle of eight dollar or eight euro madaran, yeah, go and drink a bottle of it, and you tell me how you feel afterwards. You won't taste anything for a week.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

That'll be on my list of things to do next time I'm in France.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

It'll feel like your tongue has been coated with velcro.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

I thought blue was an interesting uh was an interesting choice.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Well, it is a bit because because I I would associate that with even more intensity, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Yeah, well, that's this is it. So the for me, the blue hue in in red wine, and I've forgotten the name for it. This is this thing where they that this is going back to my wine science days. But that blue hue comes from a very, very young wine and generally tends to be relatively intense, but also just blue, like blue with a red wine, really? Yeah, yeah, well, hmm. Hey ho. Anyway, uh moving on, more woe for the Dijon's wine centre. This has been this has become a whole hobby horse of mine. When will the City de la Gastromedie duvain in Dijon close down?

unknown 29:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

When will they just admit defeat?

SPEAKER_03 29:57

I I don't mean to be negative here. Like I I think City divans are a relatively decent thing. I'm just not convinced of how great they are in the current climate. And I'm just not convinced about how you I'm sure there are good ways of doing wine museums and I should visit before I I I critique, honestly, to be fair. But I I'm sceptical about these things. Anyway, the City de Cave de la Cite wine shop, the Table de Climat restaurant, and the Comptoir de la Cité Itoy, which are all, to be fair, owned by the same group, have closed their doors definitively. Um and they they the struggles to to keep afloat had been charted over the last few months.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

So they're all closing down, which is not not great news for a Cité du Vin which is already in some strife, shall we say? Indeed. The next story was a new papal couvet in Jurasson. I mean, I I'm gonna get myself a name for writing stories about the Pope and his association with wine. But is there any more public figure with a greater number of couvets dedicated to him or her than the Pope?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Surely not. I wouldn't say that out loud too much, otherwise, certain world leaders might start demanding that people create couvets to them as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

I mean, let's be honest, especially uh leaders that are a lot stronger on crime, for example, than than the Pope is, which is uh pretty sure is not a charge I've ever heard leveled against any previous Pope in history. But anyway, it's an interesting thing. I mean, I know this as an Irishman, um, when you look at American presidents, you get and I'm I I hesitate to bracket the Pope and an American president together ever again. But in this case, there is always every time there's a new American president, there's always somebody in Ireland who tries to prove that they came from Ireland, that their family descended from Ireland. How they find these things out, I don't know. But it appears the French have decided that the Pope is theirs. So it'd be the French version of these guys now just going after every Pope and saying, Oh, forcé, fossil, fossil.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Maybe it's that sojourn, maybe it's that sojourn in Avignon that has led to this.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

That's it. They've never forgiven, they've never forgiven the Pope for moving back to Rome.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

For moving back to Rome. Yeah. Anyway, this is a story about a chap who a wine local wine grower, who himself is actually from the Pas-de-Calais. He's from northern France. He actually moved to Jurancon and I I guess built his own wine estate. And he's made a couvet of Jurenson Blanc for Cuvée Leo XIV. Cuvée Leo XIV for Pope Leo XIV. Apparently, the Pope's great-grandfather was a wine merchant in Monin, in this place in southwest France, before he moved out to Guadeloupe, and now the Pope's family tree, you know, has barges that cover, you know, Western France, Guadeloupe, Louisiana, Chicago, and possibly from what you're saying, somewhere in Ireland. We haven't moved on to Pope's yet. No, but we surely we'll we'll get there. Anyway, well, I've what intrigued me about this story was the way the Lombard who made this wine, uh, and he drew on this sort of like these roots and this family tree. And he said, This wine is also dedicated to the commitment and the occasional glory of those who one day dare to take a boat or a passing train. And you know, he talked about how his daughter had emigrated to Australia. And for us who live on the other side of the world and who have family on the other side of the world, I that sort of like pulled at the heartstrings a little bit. It does, doesn't it? Yeah, I was like, yeah, that's um it's never an easy thing, and yeah, it's hard having family on the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

It's a long way away. Especially as they get older, as I I I found out. Both my parents are are gone now, but I do remember at the time thinking it's okay, my parents are immortal, they'll never die, so I don't have to worry about how the distance turns out I was wrong. I'm amazed at that. Other, although frankly, I'm I'm sure my mother was as shocked as anyone, as shock as shocked as I was when the grim reaper finally tapped her on the shoulder. Um, but um it's tough being it can be tough being an immigrant, you know. I mean, the the point is that yes, especially, I mean, like yourself and myself, we can't get any farther away from our home countries, hometowns. No, we're literally I mean, you physically can't get any farther away than Ireland or the UK and New Zealand, you know. Well, not if you want to keep your feet dry. Um, and uh it's it's uh yeah, it it can be tough. Yeah, it is, it's tough, and that's a that's a nice nod. That is a really nice nod. I like that. Um I mean, I might actually search out some of this and then see if I can buy a ball. That'll be nice if we could taste that.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

And yeah, it would raise a glass.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

What have we got to look forward to, Don? Oh well, like I said, there's a lot of on premier stuff coming this week. So we've also got uh a slight look back to the 2024 Bordeaux vintage after Millisim's Millisima's big tasting they had in London. We've got a a report from that, which would be interesting to see how the 2024s go, you know, as the 2025s are are being you know, sort of making their debut, emerging blushingly into the into the spotlight. There's the 2024s, which will probably end up damned by comparison, although really good wines, I thought, from from what I understood. I haven't tasted any of them myself yet, but ideally what I they're they sound like exactly like what I'm looking for in in a claret, which is approachability yearly, sort of five years instead of ten years before worth drinking. But anyway, so we've got that. Also got oh, we've got an interesting story from America, where by it turns out some people are actually getting refunds on the tariffs. Oh, okay. So now, whether this is just one of those sort of quiet climb downs, and we'll just quietly start refunding people left, right, and center, it's gonna be interesting to find to see. But our US editor will be enlightening us more on that tomorrow. Yeah, so we've got that to look forward to, and of course, we've still got our you know, we're finishing coming to the end of our most wanted this week. So I'm I'm sure this week's will be a big draw card. It'll be um the world's most wanted Californian wines, yeah. And we'll be looking at the world's most wanted single malts as well.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

So um, for those of you who are whiskey fans, uh I can't wait to see that single malts one. Although I suspect I can probably the problem part of the problem with these most wanted's is that when you get to categories like single malt, you can generally pick out the top ten.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, I would suggest, I would suggest there's gonna be a fair bit of McCallan in there. Weird. Um as as as usually happens, it usually tends to be the the thing. But you never know, there may well be a few surprises, yes. There's always room to be surprised, right? Indeed. Raise the eyebrows. We'll have some surprises, and by the sense of it with the um tariff refund story, some good news this week. We would have thought, how about that?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

A week of something to look forward to. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

God, look at that. Look, dude oh my god, is there anything we don't do for you people? I know, right? We're pretty good, huh? I reckon. See you, Don. You have a great week. All right, you too. Thanks, Ollie. Bye.