Beyoncé in the market for Château Palmer? The Week in Wine Episode 36

Is the world moving back towards big red wines, or is it just a generational thing? Don and Olly represent both parties this week with a big Argentinian Malbec  from Bodegas Estancia and an unusual California blend from Extradimensional Wine Co. Yeah! showing either an age-gap or simply a difference in tastes.

We also review the etiquette problem of a host holding on to a bottle to open for a guest while we take a dive into the top single malt Whisk(e)ys, including some special Indian examples. Don also runs through the impact the Indian users of Wine-Searcher have on statistics generated by our website. Bordeaux 2024 continues to capture the imagination, as does the top white Burgundies of 2026. There's also a showing for Léoville-Barton in our most-read stories or last week, as there is for the 2025 vintage, current on-show in the region.

But it's rumors of Beyoncé and Jay-Z looking to buy a château in Bordeaux the tops the bill of our weekly wine news roundup this time, with the tenuous suggestion that it might even be Margaux Third-Growth Château Palmer. In other news, Champagne house Maison Pommery looks to extend terms on an overdue debt of €50 million while Cognac looks to begin a major vine-pull program, with Olly pointing out that not all sectors of the wine and spirits industry are against a situation of oversupply.

There's more on the generation gap with Château Larrivet Haut-Brion launching a Gen-Z cuvée (with the input of local design students) while a new wine estate in Brittany uses empty local oyster shells in the construction of its wine tanks – although it's not quite the environmental story it should be, causing Olly to also ask why it is that concrete wine tanks cannot, it seems, be made locally.

As we look forward to the week ahead, there's also news that right-wing parties in the USA are doing more to protect wine from the prohibitionist lobby than their counterparts from across the political aisle.

Cheers

ABOUT THE WEEK IN WINE

The Week in Wine goes out every Monday morning so that you can turn up to work with great talking points from the latest news across the world of wine.

Hosted by wine-searcher editor Don Kavanagh with wine writer Olly Styles – who also produces the podcast – nearly all of the stories we discuss can be found on https://www.wine-searcher.com/magazine

You can get in touch with us at editor@wine-searcher.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think my only the only gripe I had with it was that you you put Jay-Z in front of Beyoncé, and I'd argue that actually Beyoncé should be named before Jay-Z. I think she's she's almost popular.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yeah, relative. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to the Wine News podcast from Wine Signature, our weekly look at the headlines from across the world of wine with your hosts, Editor Don Kavanaugh and wine writer Ollie Stiles. For more on all the stories we discuss, go to winesignature.com.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Good morning, Don! Good morning, Ollie. How are you? This fine and beautiful morning. I'm good. How are you? Excellent's never better. If I was any better, Ollie, I'd be dangerous. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Steady on. Did you have a good weekend?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

I I presume you did. I had a marvellous weekend. I was I was away in the city of the future, which for those of you who aren't familiar with New Zealand and its um slightly self-deprecating sense of humour. Um is Hamilton a place in the North Island? I think that's about as much as I could say about it. Without veering into calumny or traducement. It's uh yeah, but I was there for a friend's 70th birthday party, so we had a wonderful time. We we went to the races for the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

As is as is um traditional in on these occasions. I lost my shirt. It was it's uh fantastic. I had a couple of collects, but nah, I ended up down for the day. But um, all my all my brave talk of box trifectors and quinellas and quaddies all came to Noss in the end. I walked out of there with my self-respect and very little else. But um, yeah, that was great. Then we went around and had a barbecue at um the birthday boys afterwards. It was fantastic. It was a wonderful weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Drink anything nice, anything memorable?

SPEAKER_03 1:51

I did, I did. He I he cracked a bottle of something. He said, Oh, I've been waiting for you to turn up so I can open this. And it was Estancia, Estancia Upsilata Malbec from 2018.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, Argentina.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

It was Argentinian, it was indeed, it was glorious. My god, it was rich. It was you know, it's about it's that sort of 14.5% alcohol, slap you around the chops, grab you by the lapels, and shake you a bit, you know, that sort of wine.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

It was the sort of wind that viral meme of the was it the German uh judo athlete at the Olympics, last Olympics, where her coach just grabs her by the lapels, shakes her, and then slaps her on both cheeks. It's sort of which got it went viral for for numerous reasons, one of which of course I can imagine be doing that to people, but yeah, we are it was very much that style of wine, though.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Right, it was it was it was yes, it was almost Germanic in temperament. Um but uh no, it was it's all it was it was fantastic, it was a really great wine. What was most interesting though was he shared it with a few people down there, and so we're sitting there drinking it, and somebody says, So what do you think of it? And they're looking at me as if I'm like as if I know any more than they do. The oracle, yeah. And um I decided to change the subject slightly, and I said, Isn't it interesting how everybody's going back to those big bold styles of red wine? And they all went, Yes, exactly. That's exactly it. Um and people were literally thinking about how fed up they were with searching for the elusive nuance in Pinot Noir, and how they actually wanted something they could taste again. Now, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything against Pinot War. This was not me talking this way about Pinot War, this was other people, but yeah, I mean, one person there was even going, Oh, I've discovered this brilliant new thing called Petty Syrah, and and um I'm going, Oh my god, you might as well be just drinking port at this stage. Perhaps it's just because I'm hanging around with people who are of a certain age and our taste buds have been debauched to the level now where we really need to be drinking gasoline to taste anything. It's um in fairness, I had a glass of Riesling on the weekend that tasted very much like gasoline, but it was uh delicious. It was fantastic, it was a water veil Riesling.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, nice. I was gonna say there's there's there's always a slight air of worry when you turn up to someone's house and they're like, Oh, I've got a bottle I've been saving for you. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I just wish they'd let me go. It's okay, I've got this one here that I like and I'm going to drink. Instead of somebody who's really pushed the bolt out and spent sixteen dollars on a bottle of on a bottle of supermarket Bordeaux from a very poor vintage and a very, very poor producer, and offered it up to you with the sort of self-satisfied smug smile that you normally only get with I don't know, people who knock on your door and um invite you to meet their personal savior. You know, it's um it's that level of self-confidence that's just that you know is going to end badly. It's just and it always does. You always end up feeling like an absolute monster at the end of it because you you can't because just because of what you're saying to yourself inside about this person going, oh no. And you you know, you disappoint yourself with your reaction. Well, I do anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Sometimes how do I do this up?

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Yeah, so what what about your weekend? What did you get up to and and what did you swally?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Well, talking about generational change and and lighter style wines, we had the extra-dimensional wine co yeah, which is actually the name of the winery. How do you spell yeah? Yeah, so extra-dimensional wine co and then yeah is with an exclamation mark at the end of it. Hence you've got to go screamer. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 5:48

The dreaded screamer.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, I know. Uh, and that we have so we had the 2022 figure ground red wine blend, red wine blend. Speaking of so that's a Californian wine. Uh, it was 12.8% alcohol by volume, which gives you an idea of California. Wait, wait, there's more. It's a blend of more veg, Zinfandel, Carignon, and Chardonnay.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Oh, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

It was bloody delicious. It was delicious. Really? Yeah, it was really good. It was so good.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

But you could it was almost I wish, I wish in vain. I wish I were a maid again. I wish that. Um God, I wish people had stopped mucking around things like that. That sounds like four absolutely fantastic wines that have been ruined.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

It was delicious, it was so good. You could tell it was so it was a light, it was a light red, but you could tell it had seen sun. It was kind of it was weird in that respect. It was quite it was quite, oh yeah, wow, it was so good. It was so so good. And yeah, you know, I'll I'll I'll try and save a bottle for you when you come over.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

I'm looking forward to that. I I I would appreciate it if you could actually film my my my reaction. So I just want to know what my face is going to look like.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Um yeah, I on on the subject of generational shame. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Generational. We're not we're not that far apart, Holly.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

You're catching up to me. Stop it. Let's let's take a look at the news, shall we?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah, let's. What were the what were the big stories of last week, Don?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Well, the big stories of last week were somewhat disappointing. The stories from the previous week. Oh, okay. That was still coming through. Well, um, the most wanted single malts of 19 of 2086.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

That was a weekend publication, though, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

It was, it was, yes. So well, it was hanging in a bit there. And um it was followed up by Bagging Bordeaux, bargain bagging bargains from 2024 Bordeaux, which was the previous three. Yeah, yeah. Um, then we've got obviously one that was an absolute penalty kick to be one of our most read stories, which is the most wanted white burgundies.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yes, that was gonna be my that was my horse in the race. If we're keeping it, you got third.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

I hope you have an each way bet on it. Guys, yeah, actually, yeah, and then and then it's back to um the previous week again with the Leo Ville Barton story.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Oh, okay. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Um, which is nice, it's good to see that people are still interested in Leo Vilbarton. It's a bit fantastic. Yeah, it's it's a wine I've always liked. After that, then was uh our first report from our man on the ground in Bordeaux about the 2025 vintage.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

A ray of sunshine in the gloom. He does point out that while the wider world of wine is extremely grim at the moment, yeah. Um, like you know, the outlook for the wider world of wine is extremely grim at the moment. The this vintage is is a ray of sunshine in the middle of it. Wine, it's beautiful. And we've also had this week we've we found out that um, well, the first of the of the biggish release prices from Monpremo came out, and it was lower than last year, so yay! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ponte Canada came out at about two dollars a bottle cheaper than it was last year. So there you go. Let corks be let corks be on corked, yeah. And caps thrown in the air, enjoy, and then let let elation be general upon the population.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Going back to our so I'm presuming the most the most read story was the most wanted single malts. Yeah, yeah. So there's a the what was surprising about the most, and it might it was surprising for me, it might not be for for those with more of a pulse on on what our readers are looking at. It was surprising to see a lot of Indian single malts in that list. Yes, well primarily from Rampur, which I have you tasted any of those? Yes, yes, I have.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Very good wines. I mean, I've I've I've had some fantastic Indian whiskies, not necessarily maybe the sort of the Royal Challenger style, you know, the um the the the blended whiskies of but the single malts they're making over there are fantastic. Amrout is a particular favorite of mine, yeah, favorite of mine. Um the Paul John uh whiskies are particularly good as well, and they're Ampur. Um and a lot of them tend to use barley that's grown up in the Himalayas. Yeah, oh wow, several of them do anyway. And it's so it's quite interesting. You get so you get, I mean, there's there are whiskies made with Amrous. I know makes a Himalayan malt that is made with glacial Himalayan water and Himalayan grown barley. Fantastic. So, but yeah, but they're really good, they're really top quality stuff. And the thing with that story as well, for those who've read it will notice that there were two top tens in it. Now, this is because in recent years, searches from India have grown so exponentially that uh they've actually slightly distorted our search data from elsewhere. So suddenly, as anybody who read our or who looked at our most wanted rums story, which was published on Saturday, they can see that they include if you if you the first top ten, again I had to do a double top ten because the first one included the Indian searches, and there were four of the top five were Indian rums. I've had a few of these rums that would not be among the finest I've ever tasted.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

You know, they're perfectly fine, workable, you know, usable uh rums, depending on what you're using them for. But you know there can be quite a big distortive effect. So with some categories, we've started we've had to run two top tens, one including uh searches from within India and one uh excluding so we can see what the rest of the world is looking at without that distortionate effect. It's quite interesting though that um uh we as far as the Indian market goes, because we're an online company, yeah. We tend to think of it in everything in terms of e-commerce and so forth, but um there isn't very much e-commerce in India when it comes to alcohol. It's right, they're not allowed to sell online in many states, right? And that's gradually changing, and hopefully, um kind of seeing we're kind of seeing a little sort of the first few stones of what's hopefully an avalanche of liberalization in the um in the marketplace there, the online marketplace, anywhere in with a bit of that will open up entirely, and people will be able to buy um wines and whiskies and rums and everything else they could possibly need online in India.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So what they use effectively, what we've got a large Indian readership for for whiskey and for rum, I understand. And this is and this is using our site to find where to get them. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they're look they're looking at where they're being stopped, and then people are going down and buying them from that shop because they have to, they can't just order online and have it delivered. Right. Um, that's that's illegal in so many in many, many states in India. So anyway, hopefully as as the country liberalises its trade and it's liberalising its trade globally now, yes. Um one can only hope that they will globalize, or they will liberalize internally as well. Um in which case I think it'll be great days for um Scotch producers. Uh it'll be tremendous news for rum producers, and it'll be probably tremendous news for wine searcher too, for in all fairness, given our our already fond place in the market there. So yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, it's a fantastic list. That was really interesting. There's a very difference between like the McAllen, where you're talking, you know, 18-year-old, which is you know, several thousand dollars, down to Glenfiddick, 12-year-old through to Rampur. It's a really, really interesting list, I thought.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

It's it's uh and I always find it's very comforting when you see um Glenfiddic in a list, uh the Glenfidic in a list because not because it's I mean, it's almost ubiquitous. You know, I mean you there shouldn't really be a corner liquor store anywhere that doesn't stock Glenfiddick. Um, there's certainly not an airport anywhere that doesn't stock it. Sadly seemed that way. You know, you know, I mean it's it's it's just one of the most globally present uh single malts, but it's also because it's one of the original ones that sold as a single malt. They took the punt and went, right, we're gonna put out a single instead of just selling because for years single malts were most the vast majority of them were just used for blending. Um, you know, there'd be a few bottlings that you know the distiller would have, or you know, that would have been sold locally to the distillery, yeah. But the vast majority of it was just pumped into barrels and mixed with blended with other whiskies and blended with uh cheaper unmal cheaper grain whiskeys and yeah, and produced as in that blended Scotch style that everybody came to know and love. Um, and so I think it's nice to see Glenfinig rewarded for making that step in the first place back in the 50s and making a big thing, making an actual selling point of being a single malt. Right. Because lots of people followed suit and did very well as a result. Um, but yeah, it's it's it is the there are two very different lists, in fairness. The the the McAllen does tend to, you know so what run through the top three again?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

What was it?

SPEAKER_03 15:13

A single malts top three stories, yeah. Uh single malts bargains from twenty twenty-four Bordeaux and the most wanted white burgundies.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Right, nice, a nice mix there. Single malts.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

There you are. But let's talk about your news roundup of the week because this is this is what I've been waiting to get my teeth into. This is proper journalism.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

This is it. A Margot Third Gross? Indeed. It's a it's a bit of a non-story, let's be honest. That's a terrible way to talk about your own work. I know. Well, so this is a you yeah, that's a wonderful thing that people like that I've seen I've read some reactions on to it online, and people are like, oh, no one cares what they do, blah blah blah, and stuff like that. And you're like, well, having looked at some of the initial figures of people clicking through on it, the the public would beg to beg to differ. And it will get eyeballs. Um the I think my only the only gripe I had with it was that you you put Jay-Z in front of Beyonce, and I'd argue that actually Beyonce should be named before Jay-Z. I think she's she's almost popular more than the colour. Oh, at the very top, yes. Yeah, right at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, so this is the story that Beyonce and Jay-Z are looking to buy a an estate in uh near Bordeaux. And this was a story from UK Tabloid the Sun, but which is pretty, I mean, it was it was a pretty tenuous story to begin with. Well because it's all relying on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all on insiders in inverted commas. Uh, and yeah, so apparently they're looking at a 16th-century chateau near Bordeaux, and what that the thing was that they used a stock image of Margot's Chateau Palmer, the quite famous third growth, to illustrate a Bordeaux chateau. And then uh regional newspaper Sud West, which is the the news newspaper for the Bordeaux region, very much that's sort of Southwest Sud West is in the name, right? Picked up on this and were like, oh my word, that's Chateau Palmer. RJ Z and Beyonce looking to buy Chateau Palmer. So, first of all, the sun never actually outright mentions Chateau Palmer. Sudwest then takes the ball, runs with it, and interviews a bunch of people, both at Chateau Palmer. I think the proprietor Alassi Shell says absolutely no comment on this. Yeah. Whereas they got one insider which could mean anything. Yeah, uh, it doesn't help either way. And that there is one one insider told Sud West there's nothing, no contract has been made. But if tomorrow they both show up with a check for several million euros, the owners won't necessarily say no. Yeah, okay. Again, that's all very conditional. It was yeah, it was interesting. There were they interviewed a local chocolate chocolatier, they interviewed an intern at at the chateau itself. You know, it was well thank god, thank god they interviewed the chocolatier.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

That's all I can say. That was quite a good interview. Because it was the story would have been lacking terribly without the input from the chocolatier.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, the chocolatier was like, oh well, well, I had two Americans turn up. They stayed um there was a tour of two apparently well-known Americans. It could have been Beyoncé and Jay-Z, it could have been I don't know who who else it could have been. Uh it could have been Robert Parker, and I don't know. But they stayed in the car and the chauffeur came in to buy the chocolates. And I think her quote was, I hope they like the chocolates. I don't know about the sale, but I hope they like the chocolates. I suspect uh having the prettiest place in Bordeaux is for me, at least, is Entre de Mer. And if I was buying a 16th-century pile anywhere, it would be Entre de Mer. It's the beautiful, it's much more sort of hilly. There's less kind of monoculture happening in Entre de Mer. And it's much prettier. So I suspect that they're actually looking somewhere else. I don't I don't think they're gonna buy a wine estate, but you know, it made it made for a good story.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Oh well, it's it manages to get the character Knowles family back in the back in the headlines. Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I I don't know, I don't know if you did see my um my pun in there, but um The Bay Chevelles. Yes, yes, I didn't it had to be done really, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, I think you could have used square brackets on there.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Just so I could have done, but I could have done, but I didn't have to because I wasn't already within a quote. Um and you're the editor. And I'm and I'm well indeed. Let's let's not forget, I can do what I want. I'm the editor. Um drunk with power. Well I am. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm always drunk with power. Well, powers, powers, I think you'll find. Um Irish whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

So there we go. That was that was a sort of story that you know maybe maybe we'll have some yeah, some a changing in uh ownership in Bordeaux. Now we also had uh something of another um debt restructuring story. Yes, there's uh there's quite a few of these. I wonder if it's that's a sign of the times. I suspect it is. This is the story that Mizon Pomeray, an associate, which used to be Rankin Pomery Monopole. I didn't realise they changed their name. Uh that shows you how uh up to the pulse I am sometimes. Um but they're facing what some commentators are calling a liquidity crisis, and that they champagne, liquid. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh uh can I go on? They have applied to extend uh payment terms on a 50 million euro loan that was due on Wednesday, last Wednesday. And one of the reports said this raises critical questions about the company's financial stability. I think they're okay. I think it's just it's a similar thing as familiar torres. They're just trying to deal with liquidity, they're trying to work out their debt, they're trying to work out how to finance it and move on. Uh, the overall picture for Pomerie is pretty good. I mean, depending on what parameters you use, it's like the second or third largest champagne house in Champagne.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

So yeah. That's big. Then that is big, but also the the figures quoted, I mean they don't look too bad.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

No, exactly. This is what they're saying. The overall figures are, you know, they're a bit down, but it's it's not, you know, it's not too bad. They've got an EBIDTA of 43 million. You know, it's not, you know, the overall turnovers are just shy of 300 million euros. That's not. And they also sold off what's interesting though is they sold off Hyde Second Co. Monopole to Lensant for 50 million, uh 50 million euros earlier this year, and that move itself was was touted as a debt relief sale. Uh they've admitted they only pocketed about 30 million from that deal after expenses and you know, and so on. But still you would have thought that would have helped. You would have thought, well, that's you know, 50 million is the is what you're looking to sort your debt out with. So you there was a very there was a very sort of, I guess, symmetrical thing happening there, and you're like, Well, you could have probably made that work a bit better, but you know, what do I know about the instance of financial control in in um what do they call themselves again? Because I keep wanting to say rank and pomery. It's maison pomery. Yeah. Yeah, so that was interesting. Next one was that Cognac has embarked on a vine pull, so they're looking to uproot between 13,000, 12 and 13,000 hectares. It's another one of those stories where they're looking to do it, but they're mainly leaning on Brussels and on Paris to help them fund it. So they're saying they're gonna they're saying they're gonna fund it themselves, and that's gonna well, I tried to look into it, and it's a when they say they're gonna fund it themselves, it seems to be they're gonna fund it themselves by getting out loans from the banks. So I suspect the move is actually to lean on on Europe and lean on on the French government to help finance this. And again, it's the same thing, they're saying they've got caught unfairly in a trade spat between the EU and China over EVs, electric vehicles. Um, which you know they there's a certain I have a certain amount of sympathy for that point of view. They just found themselves in the crosshairs through no real fault of their own. Really? Depends on what's the case.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Well, this is true. I mean, it's but I I I struggle to see how anybody could refer to digging up 13,000 hectares of vines as a temporary measure.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Well, this is so this is what's really strange because I think what it is is that you you have an issue in that the houses, and much like the negosts in Bordeaux, have a vested interest in there being an actual oversupply. If you if your job, if your your business is predicated on sourcing wine, blending it or relabeling it, bottling it, and sending it abroad, then the cheaper you can source your wine for, the better. So that's one of the one of the sort of unspoken things about overproduction in the wine industry, is that there's a section of the wine industry which is very, very happy for there to be overproduction, because it just drives the prices down to rock bottom, means they can gobble up very cheap grapes, very cheap wine, bottle it, and sell it for a for a very good price. And so I think this is what's happening in cognac, is that while they understand there's overproduction, they're like, well, we need to hedge our bets because if we take up too many vines, then we're gonna have to start paying too much for our grapes. Yeah, well, perish the thought. Imagine that, having to pay a fair price. And so, yeah, well, so this is it. So, this is where this is where it all sort of comes down to, and it's this thing that's never really been resolved. And I think it's globally true as well. I think it's we're facing a problem whereby it's cheaper to manufacture stuff abroad, but what we're doing is that becomes then the benchmark for how prices should be at home, and so you're like, well, but that's not necessarily a good way of developing your your own national production, I suppose. Yeah, you know, to keep so it's uh I think it's just a wider thing, and you know, they've also said that recent conflicts in the Middle East have exacerbated trade problems. Um that's pretty serious, you know. We all know this, we've been talking about it for a couple of years now. Yeah, but you know, according to Vitisfare, the region is sitting on 11 years worth of stock. Oh 11 years worth of cognac. And normally they'd say they'd be sitting on between seven and eight years. It's like I guess it's like whiskey. You're always you've always got like sort of an excess in the yeah in the balance.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

But I mean, you don't have 11 years of an excess. No, right. I mean, I suppose it depends on how you count it, because you'll have some that's you'll have some that's been sitting there for 60 years.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

And nobody will be worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

It's yeah, but you know, but it's yeah, it's how much you have to blend into things. It's I don't know. I just look, I just can't see. It's very easy to say that pulling out 13,000 hectares of fines is a temporary measure, but I think it's very hard to then go back up to that level. You know, uh it's yeah, so so the reduced acreage becomes the new normal. Now we come to the big news.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Well, Larry Vetter.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Now we come to the really important stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

This isn't the Bordeaux Estate Chateau Larry Vet O'Brien has launched uh a Gen Z label. Is that what you're talking about? Of course, that's it. Absolutely, that's just what the world needs. Yeah, I I find it a little bit sad that they had to. So I have a bunch of questions over this, and it's a shame that I can't that we're on the other side of the world and I can't just phone up about Larry O'Brien. I I hope the people behind this got paid. That's my thought. So the reason I say that is because the Larry Vet O'Brien launched a new couvée, squarely aimed at the Gen Z consumer, it's called Pulse, it's got 90% Merlot, 10% Cabernet, Sauvignon, conceived off the back of a workshop hosted at the estate, and a competition between uh master's students at the local art and design school.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

And we all know that the best ideas come out of workshops, don't we? Dear Lord.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Well, A, there's that. B that there's the you the the the chateau has basically, from what I understand, and Larry, everyone can please get in touch. I'd love to love to hear the the ins and outs of this. From what I understand, the label is basically the work of a 23-year-old design student called Laura, who got top prize for her concept. And I like I said in the piece, I hope she got some form of remunerate remuneration.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Uh well, it would seem fairly cynical otherwise, wouldn't it? Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

It would have been. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Anyway, anyway, never mind.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

So, yeah, so again, so there's a there's a couple of issues. I you know, it would be nice if a Bordeaux Chateau or Bordeaux Estate could lead rather than asking, you know, oh we don't know what we don't know about Gen Z. Let's let's get some design students in. Maybe you can just yeah, anyway. I thought, yeah, it's sort of for me, it reeks a little bit of slight there's a slight cynicism to it. And there's like, oh, we need we need to get to Gen Z. How do we do it? Uh uh let's ask the staff, you know? It's yeah, it's a bit like that. I'm being but a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

It covers four core concepts, really. Sharing and it then goes on to describe them, it describes what sharing means.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Mobility. It's it's an object designed to be carried, experienced, shared, with the creation of a shoulder strap in leather and macrame. Designed in France.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Everything's designed in in its country of origin, but generally produced generally produced by eight-year-olds in the in in Asia.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah. All right and flexibility, which I quite like. I try so I I try I do a lot of translation in in these stories because a lot of it obviously comes from French, Spanish, and Italian speaking press. And it was really hard to translate this. It really was. I I ended up just falling back on Google Translate, I think.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I'd like to I'd like to pat you on the shoulder for this because you weren't just struggling against a foreign language, like one foreign language, you were you were clearly struggling against management ease in a foreign language. Yeah, so it's effectively a foreign language squared because the absolute PR bullshit that is quoted in this a long-term vision that opens up reflection on new distribution models, such as bulk buying, to encourage flexibility and control of one's consumption. How does that work? Tell me, please. Anyway, um, yeah. Shall we? Oh god, shall we? Shall we just move on?

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah, oysters used in wine tanks. So this is a great story. I really like this story, and then it kind of fell apart a bit in the in one of the core um issues.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

On closer inspection.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, so this is uh a new wine estate that's being built in by uh the founder, it's almost quite well off. They the the guy who's behind it made his money in um Fenetra, which is a business in Bignon in in Brittany. A windows business, I think Windows business, yeah. Pv uh he's uh big in PVC Windows. Uh it's quite a massive factory. Look at it from it's got you know shots from the air of it, it's like a huge sort of footprint. Uh he made his money in in PVC Windows, is setting up a wine estate in a beautiful part of southern Brittany, the Gulf of Morbihan. And they're just gonna buy 14 concrete fermentation bats. I think some are eggs and some are vats, from what I understand. And they're gonna use local used empty oyster shells in the walls of the tanks. So I was like, oh, this is really cool. Like circular economy, it's you know, reuse, reuse, um, except that 1.5 tons of oyster shells which are going into these tanks are gonna have to be sent to Bordeaux to be washed and scrubbed. Then they're gonna have to get then they're gonna have to be sent to Italy where the tanks are being made, um, where they're gonna be ground up, crushed, or whatever, and then put into the concrete, and then the the tanks are gonna be sent back to Brittany. It is a circular economy, it's just a very big circle.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

It's gonna have a global footprint, it's gonna have a like a like an economic footprint or an environmental footprint bigger than the entire earth.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Right? Yeah, so it was a wonderful idea, slightly undercut by that. I found, and it's not the first time I I've seen that. I I'm when I was at Villa Maria, they they bought in a bunch of concrete tanks and they had them shipped over from France. And I was like, well, I and I I still to this day I'm like, do we not have people who can pour concrete? Now I understand that there are sp technical specifications for concrete tanks, and certainly for concrete which comes into food contact or food or wine contact. Of course. So I understand that, but it it cannot be beyond the wit of man to find someone who can pour concrete with a certain degree of precision in your own region, dare I say, in your own country. I could I could find three down my local pub. Right? And so I I I'm I always slightly dismayed by this. I'm like, well, because what we're doing, what you're doing effectively is wineries are going back to their origin and say, oh, we used to have concrete tanks back in the day, they were great. You know, something you could just epoxy line them if you like. That's how a lot of them were. And the the point, the very point was that yeah, you used local people who just shut it up a concrete tank, poured in the concrete, you know, a bit of reinforcement and stuff, and away you were. You could line it with epoxy, and you had your concrete tank. And I'm like, we're getting so far away from this that we're now having to source concrete tanks from concrete tank manufacturers in countries which are miles away, yep. And then to ship them over. You're like, this is this world has gone upside down a little bit on this one. I'm sorry, a little bit grumpy about that.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

And especially given the already massive um environmental footprint of concrete generally, yeah. It's uh you know, it it just surely it makes more sense to just manufacture in country or or preferably in region.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Please, people get like if I'm wrong, let me know. Like email us. Tell me. Like I'm no, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

I mean, is it crazy?

SPEAKER_01 32:43

If you want to do the circle of the economy thing and you want to support local, and which fine, then do it. Like, I don't understand. Anyway, let's move on. Uh, Spanish wine smuggling overblown. This is a small story that came out of the south of France, which is that actually the amount of Spanish wine smuggled, well, they call it Francis Francisation, Francis Francification, Francisation, uh, where basically what it is is that companies, again, negoti companies, uh, import Spanish wines, relabel them as French, or they they become magically become French wines once they cross the border and then are sold as French. And and actually they the prefect of the Ord region in the south of France in in Longedoc was at a recent, I think you call it a a customs stop or regular customs check on the autoroute in in southern France, where they just looked at all these tankers. And it just took it turns out that although, yes, you know, there is there are instances of this happening, by and large, in the last three years, there have only been three major cases, and they're pretty straightforward to to ping, basically. And the by-large, you know, most most Spanish wine coming into France ends up in, you know, these big blends, wine of the European Union, or they are just lit literally labelled as Spanish wine, so there's not really there's not much that fraud happening, it's just you know, as I said, this type of operation is quickly detected, referring to the to the franchise francification or franchise wine. Yeah, so anyway, that was not as bad as people say, is what he said.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Well, I think I think he's probably very brave, really, then isn't he? Saying that specifically given the given the the the uh opinion amongst local wine growers down there or grape growers certainly seems to be that it is very bad indeed. Yeah, so he might be um he might find himself um struggling to get re-elected as prefect on uh before he gets his job.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I'll see if there's any pushback on that story over the next over the next seven days. Talking of which, what have we got to look forward to this week?

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Well, we've got a great story to start the week. This is the story about, and it's going back to it's looking again at the health Nazis who are telling us all the neo-prohibitionists who are telling us that wine is bad for you, all booze is bad from the very first sip and so forth. However, it's uh it's a piece from our um our US editor W. Blake Grey, who editorializes upon a story that he found in of all places, the Daily Mail, um, an English newspaper, um, known lovingly, kind of by many people as the Daily Heil, for their uh relatively right-wing content, shall we say? Well, it's not just for the relatively right-wing content. I thought I'm I'm pretty sure that a lot of it stems from the newspaper's enthusiastic support for Hitler during the lead up to World War II, um, as well, which um, you know, that's well known. Let's be honest, it's aged as well as milk, as the kids say. But anyway, yes, so there's this story in there that he's found that dig really digs into it and finds some um slightly worrying connections between the organization that is pushing this anti-alcohol agenda on large supranational um organizations such as WHO, UN, you know. Yeah, that's the person who organized this is um the part a partner of this organization's president is a contributor to whose guide on reporting on alcohol. That's the that's the the guide that makes unproven claims about the uh deleterious effect of alcohol on them. But basically, what Blake's point is on this is that it's um and he's worried that he's going to lose a lot of his friends because he's he's something of a he's something of a pearl-clutching liberal. Um although we're gonna have to get him on here next week maybe to have a chat about this. Yeah, but he's pointed out that the only one who's actually the only side of the political fence that seems to be willing to come to the defence of wine and whiskey and beer and indeed all the fun things of life is the right wing. Uh which is uh I imagine it's something he's admitting through gritted teeth, being a San Francisco liberal that he is. But he's right, it seems to be only right wing newspapers that are pointing this out. I mean, obviously that's that would be a function of their mistrust of organizations like the UN and WHO and so forth. But um, it's uh yeah, it's it's a really interesting story, and I I would suggest you all read it. It's um regardless of your opinion of the Daily Mail or not, or indeed of the right wing media generally, or or indeed the left-wing media generally. I mean, this is very much for those of us who love wine, this is very much a story that doesn't take a great deal of thought to actually agree with.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, yeah. It's quite interesting, also, that there's the once again, we're back to um a sort of investigative work by Phyllis De Carter, who will be known by some people in the in the wine industry, and she did a bunch of work tying up or putting drawing the dots between a sort of neo-prohibitionist movement and guidelines and the sort of temperance thing and everything being sort of mixed into health guidelines in wine.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Not many people have really taken up the banner on this story, though. This is and this is Blake's point. We've been banging drums about it for ages, for ages and ages and ages. Felicity Carter has been doing the same.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah, I think a lot of the wine press too. I know wine spectator likes to feature health pieces, pro wine health pieces quite a lot.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Indeed, and there's a lot in the blogosphere's where you know, I mean you there's substack pieces for the length of your arm on this. But as far as the mainstream media goes, yeah, nobody's really nobody seems to worry about it. I just think it's an important story for us because I think we need to keep an eye on the left, if as it were, but certainly with WHO. The WHO is trying to ruin wine for everybody, right? And it's the way I can say it, it's actually starting to succeed. Anyway, it's something to keep an eye on. But other than that, we also have more news from Bordeaux this week. We're going to have um a roundup of the Madoc tastings from the Madoc nice properties by um David Allen MW, our man on the ground over there.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

And we've also got just as just to leaven the old uh Bordeaux influence a little bit, we've got the world's most wanted red Bordeaux. Or sorry, red burgundies.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Okay, red burgundies, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

So red burgundies.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

It's just I've been thinking so much about Bordeaux for the past six weeks that every time every time I start a word that begins with the letter B, I tend to say Bordeaux. It's really embarrassing when I go shopping. I need to get a loaf of Bordeaux. I need to get blurted out, yeah. Of course, of course, it could just be age.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

You know. Surely not. Surely not. Well, that just about wraps it up, I reckon.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

I think it does. Awesome, done. You have a great week. Well, that's brilliant. You have a great week too. And um let's let's come back to this next week. Alrighty. Well, you take care of next week, mate, and um we'll catch up again.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, we'll do. Thanks for right.