Finding Common Ground: Coffee, Community, and Connection on the West Bench

This week on Nobody Knowz, we meet Sarah Keck and Laurie Pearman—neighbors turned business partners who opened Common Ground, a Boise coffee shop born from a neighborhood need and built with community at its core.

Transcript

Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down, pour a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzow, so I want to take a moment to thank our sponsors.

Zamzows—we get a lot of questions about, what do I do with my leaves in the fall? I think there's a lot of shame with this, and I want to just take that away from you. You know, some people, classically, if you're in a situation where your homes have an HOA and they require you to pick up your leaves, you're not a bad person for picking up your leaves in the fall.

That's okay. If you have a spot where you can compost them, that's a wonderful thing. You can use them in the spring. And then those people who are also being shamed because they just don't clean up their flowerbeds—I want to take the shame away from that, too, because if you don't clean up your flowerbeds, you're creating a wonderful space for beneficial bugs and other microbes to live and to overwinter.

And so you're actually benefiting your yard if you leave them as well. So regardless of whether you leave the leaves or you rake them up, you're still a good person. This is really a fun and exciting opportunity for me to talk about my childhood because we have—I have a couple of guests, first of all. First time we've had two guests since we started the show.

So I'm super excited about that. And they are—they run a coffee shop. We'll get a chance to talk about this. They own and run a coffee shop that happens to be in the neighborhood that I grew up in. So I'm super excited about this. As a kid, I grew up on Northview, so if anybody is used to or knows the area—kind of Winstead Park area.

So grew up right on Northview, and we would ride our bikes sometimes and my mom would send my brother and me off on our bicycles to get groceries and whatnot, and we'd go to the M&W that was on Ustick. And so we'd ride our bikes up there and, you know, she asked us—one time she asked us to go get her a head of lettuce.

And we went, and when we came back, we had brought her a head of cabbage because we didn't know the difference. So things like that. But anyway, this whole, like, this history of things and, and last night I was preparing for this podcast and I was like, I'm going to drive by this place. I think I know where it is.

And I realized that it's right next door to the M&W, where we spent so much of our childhood. And so I'm super excited about our guests today. So we have Sarah Keck, and Laurie Pearman—said that correctly? Yes, I'm excited about that. Yay! They're the owners of Common Ground Coffee and Market, and that is located on Ustick.

And you have a wonderful story of friendship and a whole bunch of things that I'm hoping to dive into today. And just having you in the studio so far, it's just—we've got a fun vibe. You guys are very fun to be around already, so let's, let's dive in. Welcome. Welcome, both of you, for being here. Thank you.

Thank you for having us. Yeah. So fun. It's great. So, let's start. Do you want to take a quick moment, each of you, and kind of give your background, give a little history, give whatever it is you want to share with the audience so that they kind of know you a little bit better. Yeah, absolutely. So this is Sarah.

I met Lori—Lori and I met in 2022, late 2022, around Thanksgiving. And before that time—this is, like, BC in 80—no. Before that time, I had done a plethora of things. I'd been involved in the birth community. I had been in coffee a lot, just, you know, intermittently throughout my life. I raised my kids.

I did that solely, stay-at-home-mom style, a lot. Went to college on and off. I was kind of, like, bopping around, and.

Yeah. And then going back even further, something really fun about Lori and I is we were both born in Bakersfield, so this is kind of part of our whole story together. I was born in Bakersfield, she was born in Bakersfield. Our families moved to Caldwell, Idaho, the same year. Wow. Didn't know each other. And then we both grew up in Caldwell and moved with our children, families, to Boise, into the same neighborhood the exact same year.

Oh, man. So then—that's amazing. Yeah. It is. It's like—the coincidence is really uncanny. Yeah. When we met each other, we're, like, sharing these details and aligning on all of them. And it was the most bizarre experience. Super bizarre, too. Yeah. Especially, like, Bakersfield of all places. Anytime you mention that to someone, they're like, oh, I'm sorry.

And we're like, yep, you should be. Yeah. The Bakersfield to Caldwell arc isn't typical. Or maybe it is? Well, not something I've learned—now learned—found that out. But the interesting—if anyone else has that same arc, please come to the shop.

Right. We'll have a little reunion here. Yeah. So, when we met, we met at a local—

Just like a neighborhood get-together, just at a mutual friend's house. And we—I was talking to Lori's husband and was essentially like—he's like, what do you want to do with your life? Kind of. That's Nick. If you know Nick, that's Nick. What do you want to do when you grow up? And I was like, actually, it's my dream to start a coffee shop.

And I already have my eye on a space, like, in our neighborhood. I want to, you know, like, invest directly into this neighborhood. This is the spot that I've had my eye on. And I—yeah, he was like, oh, you have to meet my wife and literally, like, dragged her over and was like, Lori, meet Sarah.

So I meet Lori. And then we were both—it was like the Spider-Man meme where they're, like, pointing at each other and they're like, oh, you're me, I'm you. And she was like, oh my God, I have my eye on the same space too and want to start a coffee shop and oh my God. And the parallels were crazy.

You can't deny it when something like that happens. You have to acknowledge that and stop for a second, which is stunning. Was there just a moment where you're like—I mean, there must have been for just—it was mind-blowing. Very surreal. Yeah. I mean, I had—so going back in my history, Sarah covered up to Caldwell, moving to Boise.

I had done photography for many years in the Boise area, and then I had gone back to school, got a job at Saint Luke's, and was there for close to eight years, kind of following that career path. I was like, oh, I'm going to check all these boxes and do the 9 to 5, and was really unhappy.

So I'd actually just quit my job to pursue this the day before I met Sarah. Like, my last day—which I gave like a three-month runway to leaving that position—I finished on Friday and I met her Saturday morning, and I was like, what is this universal magic right here? Like, I can't deny that this is such a gift.

So we went out to Primal Coffee and just had a conversation and saw, like, what's happening here. And it was one of the easiest, most energizing conversations I've had in my whole life, probably, to just be like, you're a pure stranger, but you don't feel like it. And we're sharing the same vision and it feels undeniably right. Yeah.

So aligned and so—yeah, undeniable. It was just like, you know, going into that first, like, meeting with each other just as friends, or like getting to know you, where I think in both of our minds we were like, could this be a thing? And then after leaving that, we were both like, yeah, this is happening. And what was kind of cool about it, too, is I think, like, it goes in the face of what you're told when you're going out on a limb and starting a business or, like, having a business partner. Everyone tells you that you have to pick the right partner.

You know, it's such a big decision and there's so much risk in that. So to start out on this journey with someone you know—with a stranger—and with an extreme amount of trust and hope kind of was the basis of the entire shop. And I think it set the tone for the vision of just, you know, I hope you're a great person because you seem like you are.

Yeah. I'm going to go out on a limb because I believe in you, and I can feel that you believe in me. We can do this together and see what happens and trust. And, like, a community out of the gate. Build community together. Yeah. I had a—are you both—like, into metaphysical stuff? I do.

I was just talking about quantum portals on the way over. So that's a yes. That is a strong yes. Yes. It's awesome. By proxy, I am—I don't know, I love—

She ideas. She—okay. Well, I mean, I just like you talking about the law of attraction, talking about, like, you know, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.

Like, I'm just thinking of all these different things where, you know, you manifested—you clearly manifested. You both manifested this. This is it. I mean, you can't deny that it's—there's too many coincidences. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's kind of awe inspiring for those of us who maybe haven't manifested yet what they want to manifest.

Well, there's, you know—yeah. Okay. This is awesome. Yes. I would like to say what you manifested here in this room is kind of magical. Well, thank you. I'd like to say that up top, but—

Well, that's—that. Thanks. Yes. Lovely. I think, like, you get those little nudges and this one was just like a hard shove. Yeah.

You know, like, you get those little nudges where, like, talking about, you know, manifesting, talking about metaphysical things, where something's kind of reaching through time to touch you. And, and, you know, like, there's a presence.

Yeah. Some kind of presence, whatever that is. It might be a whisper, but this was loud. And so it's—it's so awesome.

So you both live in the neighborhood? Yes. You kind of live nearby? Yes. So what did you—when you—because you both have this vision and you describe it as being very similar. Can you describe, like, what it—what was the vision, and what have you manifested, like?

I mean, we both wanted a coffee shop to go to as a resident in the neighborhood. So we both wanted a space we could walk to with our dogs, with our kids, meet neighbors, be social, support a local business, have good coffee—just have a small slice of joy in our neighborhood, in our daily routines. So really, that's what we were both wanting to provide because it wasn't available for us.

And we live in such a neighborhood that's fully connected. I mean, the neighbors know each other. They're very friendly and kind. There's a lot of—camaraderie is not the right word, but just neighborly vibes. Little cups of sugar being asked for. And, you know, things like that happening. But there is no physical space to gather in to get beyond your, like, one or two blocks that you're really cozy with, or a friend group of people of the same demographic.

So I think it was just born of wanting to, you know, expand what was already happening and get a cup of coffee. It's very telling that, like, we met at a neighborhood gathering and we were like, oh, look at all these people who would be, you know, coming and want to get together and hang out together in a physical space.

Yeah, so much so that we're in someone's driveway. Really? Yeah. Interesting. So, so—so—so you get together, you have this, like, realization. It's like, okay, we're doing this. So how do you take it from that to actually doing it? So much crying. Actually, I'm really glad to hear that. She's—now I kind of know she's not—I get that, I get that—well, crying. Tears of gratitude.

Tears of joy. Tears of frustration. Vulnerability. Fear. All that. But yeah, I mean, step by step, man. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step—or a million, or whatever that saying is. Yeah. So do you each have different roles? Like, do you have—so you have, like, distinctly different things that you do within—yes, very much so.

Even though we've had a very parallel journey physically in our lives, we could not be more different as humans and, like, our skill set. Oh, okay. So it’s very yin and yang. That's awesome. Yeah, I— I love that. I surround myself with people that are very unlike me so that they fill the gaps. It's the greatest thing. That's hard, though.

You have to—you have to really trust the other person. And both of you have to understand and respect each other's, you know, strengths.

Because—and weaknesses—because, obviously, you're very different than the other person. So a lot of times what they're better at is annoying you. You nailed it. Yep. I'm married to somebody who has a completely different personality than me.

So yeah, he's—and he and I both laugh about the things that, like, the things I think I'm great at, he's like, oh, that's really annoying. And, like, likewise. So I get it. I get it, like, on a day-to-day basis. So can you describe a little bit about, like, what each one of you does, kind of like what your roles are, and like where the gaps are that you guys fill.

I mean, I think that, like, we have a lot of diverging skill sets, but we also do have a lot of overlap, which is great because we are able to, like, both offer momentum in certain areas. But we can divide and conquer really nicely. So I would say I have a lot of, like, the organization—like, you're very organized, too.

This—wait, you never want to say something and have it reflect—does this or not—don’t lie on air.

But yeah, basically, like, when we first started out, like Sarah said, there's a million tasks. So it took a lot of organization, a lot of, like, planning, business plans, paperwork. You know, we have to complete this step to get to that step. Like, just forward momentum on really tedious planning and strategy. And we did a lot of it side by side.

But it brought me a lot of joy. I don't know how much it brought Sarah, but I really loved it. The organizational part, as you're saying—like, yeah, we gotta knock through these tasks and prove our business case and, you know, map out every single budget or, you know, expense we might need so that we can prove that we are worthy of someone giving us a loan.

You know, all of these things—like, prove our ability to do this and make it successful. I really, really love that. And Sarah—so, like, the numbers side, that, like, data—that analytical piece brings me a lot of joy. I think you're very capable of it. And you like to say, so glad you do that. But you could do it too.

I could, but I would hate it. But you could. But—yeah. Okay. And then meanwhile, Sarah is so great with words. Really good storyteller, really good communicator, brings out the best in people. Yeah, a lot of human-centered stuff. Like, I deal directly with our staff. I'm kind of first point of contact with that. And we have a staff of 15 baristas and—yeah, events. All events stuff.

So that's a lot of human-centered things as well. That's kind of part of a piece of the shop that we wanted up top too, is like, we want this space to reflect our community. So open it up to them to show, like, who they are. And so, kind of, events have filled that space where we'll have live music, we'll have, like, community crafts nights, bingo, you know, family-friendly stuff.

Yeah. Oh, gosh, that sounds awesome. And it pulls the—it just, it pulls the whole community together. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, Lori is really good at all the data stuff, but she's also—I'm just going to gas you up. We're just going to be gassing each other up this whole time. She's also such a good human. I mean, this is, like, the trust thing where, yeah, you have to trust each other's process and each other's skills and also, like, tag each other in when you need that.

So that's, I think, one of the beautiful things about our relationship, too, is that we have our own roles. But we can also be like, I'm drowning. I need help. I need to tag you in. I've looked at this or thought about it too long. Yeah. Help. How do you get around the natural tendency, I think, of humans to do this—where jealousies come into play?

So you—obviously you're co-owning this business and you're co-leading it and you're very different people. Are there times that you have to—this is a difficult question, I realize. I know that you posed this question. We love difficult and, like, self-awareness questions and just trying to understand how we tick and how we can grow together and individually. I think—I don't know if you've—I’ve felt jealousy for sure in the shop because Sarah is more publicly facing. You're right there.

Social. You're there more. I have two younger kids, and I do more of, like, the behind the scenes—like sourcing, ordering—again, like, this stuff that's more data-facing, which I could do in the shop, but it would be challenging. So I'm in and out more. And at times I've been like, wait, do people know about me?

And then I'm like, wait, why do I have an ego about that? What's going on? I could just get more involved. So I think a lot of it's just saying it out loud to Sarah, being honest. And then I have this moment to be like, I'm telling myself a story that's not true. Anyways, one time you posted something—I think it was a social media meme—but it was like, I don't think I've told you this,

something like hot dogs and hamburgers—they're both delicious. Why do I have to choose just one? And I was like, oh, yeah. People are all different foods.

Yeah. You know, like, it's okay to, like, be different and, like, support each other and our full potential because also it could change at any point. Like, the chapter of life that we're in could shift and change and our roles may shift and change in time. Nothing is set. But I just think we have a lot of debriefing, too.

We do a lot of check-ins, and we're doing a lot of—I'm doing a lot of self-growth. And the business has actually been a shocking personal journey for me that has nothing to do with business, actually. And I feel like a whole new human. You can fact-check that with my husband. I don't know that he will agree.

But I think a lot of it's stories we tell ourselves and talking ourselves off the ledge. And doing it alongside someone who believes in you and wants the best for you makes it really easy. So thank you, Sarah. That is—because you're going to make me cry. You too. You know, jealousy does crop up and, like, we are very honest and vocal about all of that stuff.

You know? Yeah. I tell Lori how jealous I am of her organizational skills all the time and how I—I am woefully terrible at spreadsheets. Just so bad. And I'm jealous of those skills, for sure. But—but it's not actually jealousy. It's actually so much more appreciation. And just—and, like, also then doubling down on that appreciation by being like, I'm so glad that I can say this out loud and be vulnerable with you.

I suck at that. And I'm so glad that you're doing it. Like, there's a lot of that, actually. Yeah. So in place of jealousy, there's actually more like, that's not in my skill set. Thank you for doing that. I really see you. I appreciate you. That's a lot of work. Thank you. It requires both of you to be incredibly self-aware.

And we are. Yeah. I mean, clearly. If we weren't—well, yeah. It's hard. It's—yeah, it is. Exactly. The self-awareness is for the birds. Yeah. Yeah. We’re—on our way over here, we were talking about this and we were like, can't we just take a nap? Yeah. Can't we just rest some of that? Oh my gosh. All right, so shifting gears just a little bit, I just want to—I know there's a lot of women leaders in the community that listen to this podcast, and so can we touch on that a little bit?

The fact that you—and I don't—it doesn't sound to me like your journey was, we're going to be a couple women leaders and we're going to take, you know, and everybody's going to be following us. But by golly, you are. And so can you talk to us a little bit about the journey of becoming what you were before and now being a couple of examples in the community of women who are kicking ass?

That feels so good to hear, you know? Do you see how—like, that really—thank you. Yeah. We thought we'd be a sleepy neighborhood shop, and we're only, like, a year and a few months old. So I think a lot of it still feels very surreal to me. Like, in terms of how many people know about us and want us on a podcast. Like, that's—

I think we're a little too self-aware and, like, maybe constantly reflecting on our opportunities to grow—at least I am—to be, like, even fully processing that someone could look at me in that light. But I'm also using that—that was part of our conversation as we were here. It's like, man, I'm screwing up a lot.

And rather than trying to be perfect or be upset that I am screwing things up at times—on the human side especially—like, maybe it's an opportunity to just tell someone, I screwed up. So I think maybe, for me, the leadership growth is happening in unexpected ways and I'm not really aware of it yet. I don't think people should look at me as a leader.

I think it's too late. And you know what? I also think you screwing up and you publicly saying, I screw up, makes you a really good leader, because I think the leaders—those are the—I mean, think about the leaders in the community that we don't appreciate. It's their lack of ability to be self-effacing and saying, you know, I'm—I'm not perfect.

And it's the imperfect ones that we're like, I love that person. They're so real. They're so honest. They're so authentic. And, yeah. So I—that's absolutely—you're a leader and, and a better one because of what you just said, which is awesome. Sarah. That's exactly what I said to her. Nah. I mean, I—it did feel good.

I will say it did feel good and it felt right. You know, I think it's important to set examples of how to do things authentically. And not by saying you're authentic. Right. But just—

Guess what. I'm authentic. The word authentic. Just ask me.

What about you, Sarah? This is a fun one. Yeah, I—the being seen publicly and the leadership portion of it challenges me a lot to just—you know, imposter syndrome and things like that. And being like, people are watching me. I need to be perfect. And then because—maybe because of my Enneagram—I'm a Four, and that's the Individualist—and I think because of that, or, you know, maybe something else in my makeup, whatever it is, is like, when I think, oh, people are watching me, I have to be perfect—in the back of my mind, I'm like, be imperfect.

Mess something up. Do it. And—yeah, it's interesting, like this—the—we talk about the idea of just knowing what we've built and acknowledging what we've built and acknowledging that we now are in the position that we're in. Like, it's so hard to touch that, like, to actually, like, be in that and acknowledge and know that it's true and, you know, take it in.

Yeah. It's really difficult to do that. Especially because, like Lori said, we thought we would be a sleepy neighborhood shop, but it's just—it's been nonstop. And so it feels like it's constantly asking us to keep growing, and to be intentional about being like, actually, do we want to do that? Is that where we are? And, like, intentionality comes into it a lot.

That's so huge. I think with any business that—that comes into play. Because there are—like, things fall into your lap and sometimes it's easier to go, yeah, let's go with that. I mean, it just arrived on our doorstep, let's do it. But to stop and go, wait a minute. Okay. Does that—does this make sense? Does it—do a little of the analysis, which is also not my strength.

So turn to somebody else to get—please, will you do the analysis on this? And let's be honest about whether this really makes sense for us to go with. Sometimes—sometimes you're just worn out. You're tired. You're like, let's just go with it because it's the easy button. And, and, you know, and sometimes it works out perfectly when you do that too.

But the intentionality, I think, is one of the biggest struggles that a business owner can have, you know, like, what path have I created and what—and how am I going to follow that? And also sometimes you say, how am I going to detour? Because all of a sudden I thought this was the path, and now this other thing came up and I think we want to go this direction.

So that flexibility is—it can be torturous sometimes. Yeah. And, and there's also, like, another component of it—that you want to, like, trust that, like, things are going to keep unfolding in the way that they're supposed to. Yeah. And trying not to, like, control too much. Right. Intention but not control. It's a fine line.

It is. It is. And I find, I think, at least for me, anyway—and I've got this kind of history of, you know, suppressing my—the inner voice inside of me. It's only been recently that I've said, no, I'm going to start listening to her. Right. It's necessary. And—but I think a lot of times when we're trying to do something, it's—okay, I'm going to start this business—maybe we start to kind of clamp down and forget that it was that free-flowing spirit and that heart joy that brought us here.

And if we forget that part and we start doing what we think we should, then it veers us astray and we find ourselves unhappy. So you're exactly right—staying in the present moment and saying, okay, this—I wasn't expecting this little side road, but I think it could work. And my heart says it's the right thing. And then trusting that and having a partner that says, I'm going to trust it, too.

And it's a lot—it's a lot of moving parts there. I think there are two layers I would add in, too. In addition to the business, like, we're also going to be very intentional about how it impacts our quality of personal life. So that's a whole layer of trying to figure out the opportunity cost in some of the decisions in the business, and they might be actually great for the business.

But how will it impact us as humans, as moms, as friends? So that's a layer we're always trying to kind of analyze and check in on, too, and share that same mentality with our crew because we don't want to sacrifice them at our, you know—oh great, you guys will do that, and we'll be over here enjoying ourselves and we expect you guys to pick everything up.

We want to be very present and intentional with them, too, and democratic. That comes into our leadership a lot. And I forgot the other one. Oh God, I'm so sorry. It was going well. Well, can we go along the democratic—could you just go a little deeper into that part of what—yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So we like to bring things to our crew as much as humanly possible and be like, you guys are the ones seeing this on the daily, closer—

so much closer than we are. What do people want? What do you guys want? What makes sense for the shop? And so bringing these conversations—there's a lot of communication that goes into everything that we do every single day. We use an app called Signal, which I'm sure, you know, everyone's nationally aware of now. And there's a lot of communication that goes on in Signal.

We have, you know, whiteboards at the shop. We're constantly checking in with our baristas. I think time is a big challenge for us. We always want to do more team meetings and more team building and more intentional kind of growth in that capacity. But in the end, we're open seven days a week and we don't always have time to do team meetings and things.

But there's always conversations happening between us about that topic and how to be more democratic, how to, like, release control where we can and let the team be creative, while still maintaining certain things in the shop. Yeah. And not making one decision that someone makes because we were like, yeah, sure, go for it—impact the rest of the team in a way that we didn't think through.

So there's a lot of analyzing of that stuff behind the scenes, and it takes us a while, I think, to land on, like, okay, this feels good and right. Let's do it. Let's release control of this or let's empower everyone to do this. Or maybe we made a mistake and we shouldn't have gone that far in that direction.

Now we need to pull back and give some more guidance, and not expect them to have to carry that burden. I'm loving this so much. That's—what my heart is saying is, any way you could get them to have somebody else run their coffee shop so they could both come to work at Zamzows and help you Callie?

Yes, we offer consulting on the side now. This is now a plug for our consulting business that—I'm sorry. Now, we—

Can we be your first client?

And we have, like, an example. So recently we—that—something came up where we got a review, a Google review, that was really nice. And it talked about a drink that is not on our menu. And we were both like, oh, what happened? What—what is that? What would—yeah, we were like, oh, now we need to ask the crew what that drink is.

That's interesting. Ultimately, like, we kind of came to each other a little frustrated and we were like, oh, it's like so much is happening that we don't know. And then we were like, oh, wait, we invited that to happen. And then, you know, like, through—we voice note each other a lot to, like, process these things. I'll send a voice note, she'll send a voice note back, you know, stuff like that.

And ultimately, in the end, like, we—when we were together, we were a little frustrated and we were like, oh, we gotta rein this in. We gotta tell them we're—we're not making any drink that they possibly want. And then ultimately kind of processed and came together and were like, you know what? We should just bring it to the team and be like, what do you want this process to look like?

We want you to be creative. How do you want that to look? Yeah, like, imagine someone came in two weeks ago and had some drink and now they're at the register asking you for the same drink and you don't know what the hell they're talking about. Is that okay? Or is that uncomfortable? Like, the team should make this decision because they're the ones that are gonna be in that position to then manage it.

So maybe we shouldn't—maybe we—maybe we take a cue from them. So that's part of our team agenda, our team meeting agenda for next week, is to put it to them. And also, like, it takes the heat off of us a little bit where we're like, we don't actually have to do everything. Let's let them—

Yeah, yeah. Tell us how you want it to look. I just—I want—now I want to come to work for you. I'm just—keep shifting around here. I say we—come to work with me. Now I want to come to work for you. It just seems like—

That was the other layer. I just thought of my other layer—that we're hiring. Oh, I'm just kidding.

That we are also trying to do things differently as leaders. So I think that makes it feel a little less formal leader to me in a way. Like, it is leadership still, but we're not, like, reading leadership books or, like, really striving to be a leader that we've seen before. At least I'm not. I—

Instead, we're like, we want to lead differently. How would we have wanted to have been led in different junctures in our, you know, hodgepodge of jobs that we've had? And because of that, there's no, like, roadmap for it. It's just a lot of check-ins. So I think that's an extra layer of the intentionality—trying to do it differently and not mess it up. Or mess up and then say, oops, I messed up.

That's true. Yes. But you did. Just learning, real time, man. High five.

I can just bask in the glow of this, like, conversation. It's lovely. That's so good. I'm wondering about the future. What are you guys thinking? What—what is your—what's your plan? Are you going to have a chain of 12 coffee shops? How much control can you get?

This is a great opportunity for us to say that we would like to take the Holiday. If anybody knows what the Holiday is—nobody? Nobody? It's right next to it. I'm just—this is—

Wait for you to sign. This is manifesting. This is for funnies. Manifesting for funnies, but also for realsies, maybe. Are you talking about the motel that's on—

Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. As a kid, my friend Stacie, my best friend,

we would ride our bicycle every day up in the summertime, and we would pay them a dollar to let us swim in their pool. Oh my gosh, amazing. Bring it back. Bring the pool back. Because now it's, like, gone. It's gone. Did you guys ever swim in that pool?

No, someone that we know—are a lot of—we remember that. I did swim in the Safari Inn pool downtown, which is—

Oh—also completely something else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah. Where did all the pools go? Right. So you have this thought process surrounding that location. So we've—we've gone back and forth on, like, another location several times, and we've been offered opportunities in several different locations, like on the Bench, downtown, a handful of them. And so it makes us think about it and be like, what do we want?

Do we want a second location? What would that look like? Ours is so specific to our neighborhood. Like, there's a painting on the wall—like, a big mural on the wall of Ustick and all the little, like, landmarks on Ustick, you know? And so it is just so specific to our neighborhood. And we wanted it to reflect our neighborhood.

So if we were—you know, if a second location or something—whatever's next for us—comes up, we want it to be that again, you know, wherever it is. And not the same. But—and then, you know, we talk about the Holiday as, like, a B&B situation—like a little—

Yeah. Coffee, breakfast—

Oh.

Like lodging. I love this. Like, almost like how hospitality is hospitality.

Yeah. You know, the hotel kind of situation is—it's also hospitality. So it'd be a rebuild, like the Modern Inn—like, take something that was kind of old and—

Yeah, we haven't entertained it that far. But, yeah. I think I'm really big into the idea of, like, put the pool back.

Yes. Make it cute. And then—staycation Holiday for the Boiseans.

Yeah. Oh, you know—

Yeah, a little outside-of-the-frame, the neighborhood vibes. But in our motel. I would say the one thing that, like, where we are really very clearly passionate about is, like, re-energizing dead spaces, neglected spaces. Like, the space that we're in now just sat empty. We both watched it with our very eyes—

just sit there being sad and neglected for three years before, you know, we were like, we want that. And, so yeah, it's something like that. And we're not 100% sure. We've also, like, checked in with each other and been like, do you want a second location? What does that look like for you?

A lot. I think at some point we'll be ready for a challenge and it will show itself. But at this point, we still have so much we want to do at our current location. We're having so much fun with it still. Yeah. And we haven't seen through every little thing that was on our little vision board, on the map.

And it's been evolving because it's been very big into community input and listening and reacting to what people want, which has surprised us and been so much more than we expected. But I think it's been more information to kind of, like, simmer through and just exist in, you know. Our nights—we'd love to have our nights be busier.

There's capacity there. We have some really incredible nights in the shop where it's just true magic, because it feels so much different than the morning coffee, like, hustle feeling or the buzz of a coffee shop. You know, we dim the lights, we have candles out. In the winter, it's dark, and it's just a really magical space to be in for music, for—

we had the mariachi band—that was one of my favorite evenings in the shop—craft nights, all of these things. But because we're just kind of on an island—we're in a—we're actually more like a desert, I guess, up there. We're one location and there's nothing to jump to. It still can be pretty slow at night, and we don't want to give up on our nights, but we're trying to kind of still imagine those and see where's the value, what can we contribute?

How can we get more creative with them? Food's another thing that we want to keep rolling out. It was such a huge endeavor. And to be intentional about it, with our small space and our crew and our sanity, and to keep doing each of these components well, you know? Like, we're talking about a lot of different components. We have a market, so we offer lots of local goods, and we try to be really intentional about that.

We don't want our coffee game to slip if we start doing food and, you know, our foundational, you know, operation goes by the wayside. Yeah. So I think when—when we've, like—we're just doing it, we're doing it really slowly. Yeah. And there's a creative process that's fun to do together. We love the occasional night, maybe like once a month, maybe every other month, we get to go into the shop after it's closed and just kind of be creative together.

And it always throws us back into what it was like to be in the construction phase, because we were in there so much together, doing construction as unskilled people, and it was so fun, you know, and it was so creative. And so there are moments like that that I think are still happening and are fun. When those have kind of, like, dried up and we're noticing that there's space, I think it's inevitable that we'll be more actively seeking out the next thing.

But in the meantime, we're just open and manifesting the Holiday. Well, speaking of manifesting, I'm gonna take a quick moment to thank our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet, and planet-friendly products. Just like a good coffee shop, Zamzows believes that the best communities grow when you start local. Visit zamzows.com or stop by one of our 12 Treasure Valley locations.

Nobody knows like Zamzows. How's that for squeezing that in real quick? It was beautiful. Truly and intentional. Indeed, indeed. Thanks, producer. Okay, so we're going to take a little shift now. This is our part where we call the—I would call it Sharing Is Caring, I think, is the segment. It's basically a rapid fire. I'm going to ask you a few questions that are, you know, fairly quick answers, and you can give me your quick thoughts on these things.

I'm sweating. Are you ready? I see your slides. No, not ready. These are really hard. So just, you know—okay, here we go. I'm gonna say this is a hard-hitting one right here. What is a local product in the shop that you're especially proud to carry?

Oh, God. There are so many because our shop is full of local products. That's such an impossible question. Well, this is good. You can just, you know—you can go back and forth. On our menu or in our market? Give me some direction. One of each. Yeah. How about that. One of each—or two of each. There are two of you.

Our coffee beans are from Caffe Mule and Ironside Roasting, and they are incredible humans that just keep showing up for us and showing up for Boise and the greater Treasure Valley over and over again. And so I think for me, they're huge, because if they hadn't championed us early on and believed in us and just been tolerant of us just wandering in like, we're two girls and we're gonna start a coffee shop—trust us, you know?

And it was just—from the beginning they took us seriously. And they've continued to go above and beyond. They took our Salty Girl sauce up into the foothills recently for one of their final trail service—or trail-side service—serving—having it. I mean, Sarah went, but they're proud of us and we're proud of them. And that matters.

You know, it's fun to support each other. So that would be my on-the-menu vote. You stole mine. I knew I would. I'm leaving. You can take the market.

I'm going to do a weird one. You—oh, yeah. Are you ready? Okay, so we have a friend and associate who makes a lot of art for us, and his name is Jeremy Lanningham. He goes by Nocturnal Workshops. And not only is he a fantastic human, he is the father of one of our baristas—and a barista that we love a lot. He has, from the beginning, been super, super supportive of not just the coffee shop, but of being like, I will help you—

make this as weird as possible, and let's make some weird art together and let that kind of help our personalities shine. And in a different way. Because, like, neglect—or, you know, kind of reviving a neglected space—can also be called gentrification. Yes. I actually thought about that when I went by last night. Yeah, I was going to—

Yeah. I'm glad you said it. It can be. We are two people who are directly invested in the neighborhood, so it's not that. But, you know, it also can be. And, you know, coffee can be a very vanilla place, you know, culturally. And we want ours to not be that. So he helps us really, like—he'll throw ideas our way.

And if we throw ideas his way, he's like, oh, yeah, I'm going to run with that. These are great partners. Yeah, yeah. And he lives in the neighborhood. Yeah. And he comes in all the time. And he hosts a creative meetup every other Wednesday called Wise Ones. 7:30 a.m. in the shop. It's super fun. That's cool. Just a bunch of local creatives coming in and chatting with each other.

Yeah, you should write it down. Yeah. That's enough. He, I think, also really wanted a coffee shop in his neighborhood, and he wanted that same vision that we had. And so he came out the gate really excited to just—overflowing with ideas—and be like, I doodle all the time and let me just pitch this your way. And it was so fun to have someone with a lot of heart and vision and creativity just toss their own passion at us.

Really, that's incredible. Helping us brainstorm lots of, like, business things right up front. Names of drinks. Wise Guy—he came up with—the Wise Guy. He came up with the Wise Guy. And also, here's—here's another component. This is the magic of the coffee shop. He bought me a ticket to a concert that we went to together last night with a group of friends.

Wow. So yeah, that happens in the shop all the time. You just become friends with people. Yep. Oh, yeah. I'm definitely going to come hang out at your coffee shop. It sounds like a wonderful place to be. You should. I will, I will. Okay, so—how about next question. Something outside of work that has been recharging for you.

For Lori, it's been gardening. No screens in sight. I've been going to my garden a lot this summer. I didn't really have much of a garden last year because it was, you know, the first year of the coffee shop. But this year I've had that, and it's been amazing. And then cooking, I think, too. Like, I also have two kids and we just got a puppy.

And so there's not a lot of space for me to do a whole lot of things. So, like, I'm like, I have to eat. So gardening feels like a really easy entry point to just bringing joy to that. So, that's been mine. I love it. I mean, I really love it. That's a great answer. And nice. Yeah, it's beautiful and simple. I love that.

Yeah, I need simple. And you gave me a bunch of tomatoes this year, which is nice because the only thing that I grew is chaos. So it's actually me this year—a real chaos garden. Yeah, that was me. Yeah. I have a really good excuse, though, and I'm sure you do as well. Just like, sometimes you can do it and, like, make it happen and sometimes you can't.

Yeah, absolutely. That was me this year. Lifting weights for me. Really. I really need to move my body. Like, I just found that that's, like, my—that's my medicine. Yeah. It's very, like—many levels—spiritual for me. It moves energy—stuck energy that needs to move. It makes me feel healthy, you know? Yeah. All the just obvious things about that.

Plus lifting—

I think it gives you some testosterone, you know? And my body probably needs that as well. And as we age—this is the voice of perimenopause over here—there's—we are—bone density. Like—

Yes. You don't lift weights—

Yeah. I hear you're losing bone mass. Yeah, and I've heard that for such a long time for women.

And so, yeah, it feels good to know that, like, you know, my future self will say thank you. Exactly. Yeah, I would say that—I always laugh that Morning Kelly does not like Night Kelly because Night Kelly does stupid shit. And Morning Kelly is like, why did you do that? Yes. And I don't drink, so it's not even that.

Like, I just do other stupid stuff that I shouldn't be doing. Like, including staying up too late sometimes. It's like, what—why did you do that? You knew you were getting up early. Why did you do that to yourself? I skipped the gym this morning, but I'll get there later today. Probably. Hopefully. All right, I have one more quick question for you guys.

How about a book, a podcast, or a practice that has influenced how you think? Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, and it is a philosophical book about just how humans ought to be—how we—like ancient wisdom that probably should have been passed down from generation to generation to generation, but that each generation feels like they need to reinvent the way to be human.

And so that's made me think a lot about, you know, just that, like, wisdom—that intuitive wisdom that we all have—and listening to that. Yeah. Interesting. Ishmael. Is that how you—Ishmael. Okay. All right. Written it down. I listen to so many podcasts that I couldn't even pick one. So there's obviously inspiration coming from those, but—

Okay, I'm gonna—I'm going to just throw something out because this is rapid fire. My family and I just started—or I should say, we just finished—watching five seasons. It's our first family series of All Creatures Great and Small on PBS. And I did not expect to go so deep in enjoying it. So you're familiar with it?

Yes. Yes, it has been really grounding, I think, in a really, like, busy, hectic time to just kind of escape to a really simple—and it's not a simple time in all the ways, right? But the priorities in that show are very grounding and wholesome and human. And so I think that's been actually guiding me a lot because it's been just calming me down and refocusing me on kind of, like, the small things that matter and community and, like, household, family.

Yeah. Oh, it’s not super inspirational. But, I mean, it's—I've enjoyed it. But Season Six, baby. All Creatures Great and Small. It's very pastoral. Yeah. So—yes, very much so. Did you happen to read the original book? I think there was a series, maybe some—I—

Yeah, I think there is, by James Herriot. I think it's probably on my list.

I should put it in there. Yeah, yeah, I have not—so good. So good. Okay. Now we've come to that point in the show. This is the question we ask all of our guests, and this is pertaining to anything you want to answer. So there aren't any rules on this answer. However you want to answer it. So who would like to go first?

Why don't you pick? Yeah. We—

We put our fate in your hands. Okay, here we go. All right. What is something that nobody knows? Nobody—well, now—

Okay. Okay. It's—somebody probably knows, but, you know—can I share something that is on our horizon? Do it. We—okay, some people know this, but it's not a widely known fact.

We were invited to be the keynote speakers at the Neighborhood Interactive Conference that the City of Boise Neighborhood Organization puts on, and I'm terrified of—oh my gosh, you're going to be fantastic. If I don't lay down on the stage, it's impossible to know. So there's a lot of internal work going on there—and a big growth opportunity, if I'm going to rebrand it positively.

But I think that, you know—Sarah and I get together and there's, like, this really easy rhythm to us, and people don't realize just how scared I am of public speaking and how out of the norm this is for me. I'm enjoying it a lot, but it's not my—I don't like being in front of people or even speaking like this.

So it's a new chapter for me. So thank you for saying that. Yeah, you're a natural because you're not performing. And as long as you do that when you're doing your keynote, you're going to nail it. It's going to be fantastic. Yeah, time will tell. Thank you for that. That's—

When will that be? When is that? October 23rd.

All right. Congratulations. Keynote is a big deal. It's an honor, and I'm excited for you. You're going to do awesome. Yeah, I agree. I feel like every time kind of Lori steps up into the spotlight, she just freaking nails it.

For the listeners, she just dragged her thumb across her throat—

I'm telling on you—and it—

All right, now the question is posed to you. What is something that nobody knows? Nobody knows—just in general? Or about me—anything. What is your heart calling you to say? That's hilarious. My very first thought—yes.

Okay, so I grew up in Middleton. Way out in the country. Like, not in-town Middleton—like, way out there. I jumped into a canal to get to my friend's house a quarter mile down the road. That's not the thing that nobody knows. That's just a fact. I got—just for me to commute to my friend's house,

I jumped into the canal and I floated to my friend's house. Yeah. These are—these are hilarious details. So I'm, like, kind of a country kid. And when I was 9 or 10, we—because we lived out in the country and were surrounded by fields—one day, in the field next to my house, a tractor appeared.

Never—never happened before. This field—this particular field—was always full of weeds. There's nothing there. And it was a place I would explore and, like, spend time in, you know, stuff like that. I had three brothers and me. And one day, this tractor—it appeared in this field right next to us. And I was so curious about it.

And so I was like, I'm gonna climb into that tractor. And so I did, and I'm, like, in the tractor. And I was like, oh, wow. I feel so powerful.

And I did—I, like, I recall the feeling—and then also being like, and terrified. And I'm terrified. I'm going to start this tractor. So I did. The key—the key was in there. I started the tractor. Like, how did I even know how to do that? Whose car was I starting? That's amazing. Like—yeah. And so I just—I started it. Like, revved up. And then I could feel it like, you know—and I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

And I was like, am I going to drive this? Like, these were questions in my mind. And no. I got—like, fear absolutely paralyzed me. And then I just ran. Like, I tried to stop—I tried to stop the tractor. Like, I tried to, you know, turn the key the other direction. But it wouldn't—you know, probably child locks or whatever.

No child lock to start it, though. So I started it. I couldn't stop it. I, you know, ran inside the house, got every single one of my brothers together in the basement and was like, guys, this is what's happening. I told them what was happening. And each of them snuck out—because my mom was there, you know, upstairs, not watching.

And each of my brothers, like, took turns sneaking out of the house so that they could try to stop the tractor. Oh. None of us could. And the next morning, it was gone. Oh. Just gone. And I was like—in my head, in my 9 or 10-year-old head—I was like, oh, the tractor just went away on its own. Like, because I started it now it's gone.

So yeah, that is a great story. That's—I don't know why—that's the first thing that popped into my head. I think I still feel a little guilt. Yeah, well, you know—yeah. How cathartic. You've just gotten it out publicly. This is great for the—

I think—I think that—

I get my child—I think we're good. I think you're—

I never got the opportunity to, like, you know, admit this in church or anything like that.

So. Sorry, Mom. That farmer's listening and just feels great. He didn't leave it running the whole time. He was like, God, I left that—

Right. Yes. Yeah, a mystery. Yeah. But he has been, like, agonizing over his—listening—it's cathartic for everyone. Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm sad that this conversation is coming to an end. Thank you both for being here today.

What a delightful couple of people. And I meant it when I said that either I would come to work for you, or could you come work for me? I think—I just—being a part of what you're doing right now sounds like a blast. And I'm appreciative of what you're doing. I'm sure the community is. My original neighborhood—

I'm just—I love it. I love what you're doing. And so thank you. Thank you for taking the time to come here and let us get to know you a little bit. It’s great. This was really special for us. So thank you. Yeah. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much. Hate to have it end. Me too. Well, maybe we'll have you back.

We'll make another excuse. Yeah. Are we going to have a coffee date? Well, there you go. Let's make that happen. Yeah. I can walk down Northview and you can show us your old house. Maybe they'll let us go in. Maybe we know the people. Maybe—maybe they're regulars. All right. It's highly likely. To be determined.

All right. Thank you again. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow the podcast and please leave a review. I would absolutely love it. And the next time that you need a place to meet a friend, grab a coffee, or shop local, check out Common Ground on the West Bench in my old stomping grounds. Next week we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley.

And until then, thanks for listening.