Uncovering Boise’s Hidden Stories with Mark Iverson

This week on Nobody Knowz, we sit down with the historian behind IdaHistory—Mark Iverson. From haunted tales to forgotten landmarks, Mark is on a mission to uncover Boise’s hidden past and share the stories that shape our city.

Transcript

Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It’ll be honest, messy, and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down, pour a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. 

Welcome to Nobody Knows. I’m your host, Callie Zamzow. I’d like to thank our sponsor first off today, Zamzows, and I was thinking about what everybody’s asking about right now here at the beginning of October, and that is garlic. So a lot of times people in the middle of summer want garlic, and so they are asking us how they plant it. And you don’t plant garlic in the summer or the spring—you plant it in the fall. And you let it overwinter. And then it comes up the next year. So if you want garlic, you need to get it in the ground this fall. And a little side tip, you can actually plant them in the same bed as you plant your tulips. Your tulips are going to be a little bit shallower, and the garlic is going to go a little bit deeper. So then you’ll get your tulips up first and they’ll be pretty and then they’ll die off, and up will come your garlic and you will have garlic to enjoy in the summertime. 

I was kind of reminiscing as I was preparing for this podcast, just kind of about the history of the city, and I guess it probably goes without saying. I love the city, I love Boise, I love the surrounding cities, I love this whole valley. I grew up here. There are generations of my family that have lived here. I did leave for a short period of time for college. I thought I was never going to come back. And then I did come back, and—

By the time I was done with college, I was ready to come back. So, this is just a great place. And I was thinking about things, as a child, that were magical. And one of the things was the Boise tour train. It’s a little red train, and it drove around the streets of Boise and just kind of talked about the history and little odds and ends, pieces of the area.

And it was just kind of—as a kid, and we didn’t do it very often, but sometimes we would go on field trips when I was an elementary school kid. And then, you know, sometimes the family would go and we’d be like, let’s go ride the tour train, see if anything’s changed. Nothing ever changed. But it was always good.

It was always good. Anyway, I was thinking about that for today in particular because of my guest. And I—I’m excited today. I feel like there’s going to be some interesting uncoverings of our city here. I’m hoping to pick his brain a little bit. And so this will be really fun. So today I have Mark Iverson.

He’s the founder and tour guide of IdaHistory. Yeah, just lumped together. IdaHistory. Love it. I am so fascinated by what you’re doing, and I’ve listened a little bit to your podcast. I’ve kind of, you know, dug in a little bit. You are a very interesting person. And so I’m excited to share you with the community.

I’m sure a lot of people already know who you are. But I’m excited to have a little conversation and just kind of dig in a little bit to understand—maybe we can learn a few things that you already know and learn some things about the community that we didn’t already know.

Yeah, I’ll talk about it anyway. I love it. That’s great. Might as well just do it. You’re my kind of guest. This is already starting off well. Thank you. So before we get going, do you want to just talk briefly about yourself, like help us understand who you are and kind of how you got where you are today?

Yeah. So, I’m originally from Seattle. You know, I am an old Seattle, and none of our teams won in these, you know, sporting games. The Seahawks always lost. And it was scary to walk through Seattle on the way home with my father. You know, that time where grunge came from there because it was depressing but also wonderful at the same time.

You know, and then—and then I left Seattle when I was 27. I went into the Peace Corps, of all things. Ugh. And I had volunteered and worked in the Seattle Parks and Rec with the Specialized Populations Department. And so, you know, people with disabilities and senior citizens and stuff like that. And so that got me in the Peace Corps and, you know, I worked at a—basically a juvenile detention center for Roma or, you know, gypsy kids.

And so when I came back, I wanted to know about some of the, you know, ethnic kind of hatreds that I experienced there and also some of the better sides of Eastern Europe. And so I started going to BSU for my master’s in history. And I worked after that, and I got my master’s in history studying the Bosnian War and went over there, lived there.

That was an adventure. And so I started—I started basically working for the parks department and I said, oh, wait, some of the themes that I studied in genocide studies apply to Western history and Idaho history, especially with the, you know, different belief systems between, you know, let’s say Chinese Americans and, you know, Euro-Americans and, you know, the different tribes and other tribes.

And then you throw in, you know, explorers into that mix and then pioneers, and it’s just—it’s the same stuff that happens when you mix populations over in the Balkans or the Middle East. It’s just—craziness ensues. And so I started looking into that. And up at Fort Boise, you have guys that literally were at Gettysburg, and one guy we have, David Bowie, is buried up there. Not the David Bowie. I was like, wait, what? Yeah. You know that cool cemetery up on Mountain Cove Road behind the old fort? Sure.

So I start looking into some of these guys when I worked for the Parks Department Cemetery Service. It’s—it’s the, you know, it’s the hot job to have. You know, everybody wants—yeah. And, so I started doing that. But looking into the history of the people that were buried in these cemeteries, and I got super interested in Boise history and in Idaho history, and it just kind of went from there. And so I started—I started IdaHistory and went into a PhD program at Gratz College in Philadelphia in genocide studies. But then that stuff’s a little—a little depressing.

I was going to say it sounds very dark. Yeah. So, about two and a half years later, I quit. My kids—I have kids, too. And so they were basically like, you know, Dad, you’re always writing and reading. So, you know, I didn’t want to move back east anyway, so I just stopped that.

But I use the tools that I learned to create really great, engaging history. And I know how to find the information. So I have competition in the tour industry now here. But, you know, I’ll—I’ll win the Pepsi Challenge when it comes to research capabilities all the time. And so I find stuff that other people don’t.

I’m friends with the archivists too, so that helps. Wild. Okay, so—can I ask you how old your kids are? Yeah. So seven and ten. Okay. All right. Oh. So they’re at that age where they can, like, start to call you out and be like, Dad—Yeah, yeah. Are you weird? No. They—like, they say I am weird. And they’re—I’m trying to say, well, that’s a good thing. It is a good thing. And that’s exactly right. I told my daughter that the whole time she was growing up. My—my son wants to come on the tour. Yeah.

Like—Yeah. Well, yeah, probably not my true crime motorhome tour. You know, maybe we wait on that one a little bit. Oh, I—so I always find people who fall in love with history at a younger age very fascinating people because it’s like—it’s almost in your blood. I have a friend from college that is that way, and I—it’s come to me later in life. I’ve become more interested in history as I’ve grown older. But when you learn at a younger age, like, what—What was the—the fascination there? What—what caused you to lean into it?

My—my father was a history teacher in the—well, Seattle Public Schools, but then Lake Washington School District. And so he had just books and books in his library downstairs. And then we went to the Battle of the Little Bighorn site. And I remember going to Pearl Harbor, you know, the USS Arizona site, and—just getting fascinated with being on, you know, at the actual place. Yeah.

And so, you know, I—that really transferred over to Europe. And, I mean, just international travel, going to, you know, Turkey and Israel and, like, the West Bank and all these places and just sitting there like, oh, yeah, Jesus was hanging out here for 40 days—like, oh, that’s where it happened.

That’s what they said, you know. That’s fascinating. But what I found that was just wonderful is that feeling transferred back to Idaho. If you get me up in the foothills where there are tons of mining—like, mining remnants—you know, I’ll peek my head in places I probably shouldn’t peek my head in, you know, like, oh, that’s probably flammable in there.

You’re like my father—he does that too. I know. You shouldn’t do it. This is not smart. I should not be doing this as I’m doing it. Right. But that love that my father helped instill in me. And then my mom too. We traveled, you know—Hawaii. Only child. So I was privileged in that sense.

And, you know, we’re at a thousand-year-old fishing village—you know, in America—and I just—it’s—I’m addicted to it. It’s—it gives you that little dopamine hit or whatever when you find something that—people haven’t seen a picture for, you know, 70 years, and you’re looking at the glass plate negative, you know, and you’re like, whoa, this is an old, you know, Prohibition still that was down behind the Natatorium on the river.

You know, that’s just an addicting feeling, you know, to find that. Fascinating. I—I always say that there are certain people I’d like to just be in their brain. Not for a long period of time, but just enough to feel it in your brain. I already can tell I’d like to—just for a brief moment—Just be in your brain. Climb in—I’m almost out of room. I got a lot of voices in my head. Take that as you will.

And I’m also fascinated—yeah—just by the whole, like, your—your path getting to here. I mean, it seems all very organic. You just—you—like, the world sort of unfolded in front of you, and you took these particular roads that led you here, that when you look back on it, does it look like, wow, I—it seems somewhat accidental, but it was—it needed to be the way that it was to lead you to here?

Well, yeah, I think I’m lucky in a sense that, you know, I—I didn’t have a lot of responsibility for such a long time. Kids will change that. Yeah, yeah. I can either be a good father or a bad one. I’d rather be a good one. But, before that, I didn’t have too many responsibilities as far as, you know, my grandfather left me all the money I needed for education. He was just great on real estate, you know. Oh, people are moving across from Seattle to Lake Washington, so I’ll buy some property and—and bam! Lucky for him, now it’s Kirkland, Washington. You know, so, like, just little things. Like, I’m a privileged person in the sense that I could explore what I wanted to.

And so, you know, I was interested in history and then Eastern Europe because of what I saw on the TV as far as the war in, you know, Sarajevo particularly. But I—like, okay, well, I’m going to join the Peace Corps. Okay. And then I got to do that because I was privileged enough to be able to work for the Seattle Parks and Rec because I knew people.

And then, you know, I learned a lot from working with people that had disabilities and—and that got me in the door in the Peace Corps. So it’s like, yeah, I mean, these—these—it’s just people I knew that were interesting people led to great opportunities for me, and then led to more great opportunities. And then coming here—

BSU was great to go to because you have really great professors. One of my heroes is Dr. Jill Gill. Just a little woman. And she goes—she’s like, yeah, I went to interview these white supremacists. And it’s like—it’s like, no fear whatsoever. Just goes in there. I’d be so— And she is smart as a whip. I got an A in her class, and it was the—like, I didn’t think that was going to happen.

But she inspires you, right? And so she wrote one of the letters to get me in the door at Gratz, you know, College in Philly. And so, you know, it just—and I learned so much from that. And those people helped me. And it’s just like all that leads up to this—like, yeah, this wealth of knowledge that, you know, I gained through just knowing good people.

Yeah. And that continues to this day. You know, I love meeting people out there. So far, nobody has gotten mad at me for any of the social content in person. But, like, locals know a lot of cool stuff.

Yeah. And sometimes you dig into it and, you know, if you’re humble about it, they’ll be humble about it. And it’s just a big nerd-out fest, which is what a lot of my tours become. Lost. I don’t know if I answered your question, but that’s somewhere out there, right? Yeah, I—yeah, I do. I—I liked what you said regardless. Thank you.

Yeah. What a—what a cool journey that you’re on. I also—we talked about it before the podcast started that, you know, you mentioned that probably people think that I should know everything about lawn and garden and pets because it’s the family business and—and—and people feel the same way about you.

And the truth of the matter is, what I think both of us are is we’re curious, and we remain curious. So just constantly lifelong learning, always learning, and always being open to, you know, admitting you don’t know something so that you can learn more about it.

Yeah, if you’re—if you’re—if you’re so, you know, in need of seeming to, like, be an expert—like somebody, some important Greek dude said, like, you know, the—the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know, right?

So it’s like, I feel that way the more I learn about one topic of history. You know, the Silver Valley up north, right? You know, Wyatt Earp was up there. Like, okay, well, what’s that going to open up? You know, and there’s like, oh, whoa, Calamity Jane was up there. And then, like, oh, you know, there were shootouts and—oh my God.

And so then I’m just like—all—there’s all these new pathways of things I want to find out. You know, just organically popping up in my mind. And so it’s just, oh, I need to know all these other things. And yeah, I guess that’s probably how it is for gardening for you.

I—yeah, yeah, absolutely. I like tomatoes. Yeah. Awesome. We could go completely off a different direction about tomatoes. Yeah, yeah, but if I tried to learn about them, I don’t know—there’s probably way more to that.

Well, and don’t you think that we have these spheres of things that are interesting—just inherently interesting to us? So where I might really nerd out on a tomato, you’re going to nerd out more on a history—something historical, something that happened that, you know—

So I think that—I think that’s the beauty of all the, you know, different people and having different interests and different things that we’re willing to dive deep into.

Right people—I mean, I know people that unite over gardening, you know.

Yeah. Here they have a community garden, where Hutu and Tutsi from Rwanda came together over gardening at community gardens.

You know, like, you can find humanity and put a bunch of tomatoes in front of somebody on a table, and they can—it’s all about connecting people, like food is. And I think—I think history is that same thing. Yeah. It’s a conduit to connection with people, you know, where we need those things now, I think, more than ever.

Ain’t that the truth? Yes, I totally agree. So let’s—let’s talk about IdaHistory. How—how—like, when it actually started, when you said, I’m going to start something, this is what I’m going to do. Tell us about that.

So I worked for the—yeah, I forgot to say this—Arts and History Department for the City of Boise. And I started giving tours for them, where we team up with the art side and Development, Planning and Development. And we talked—okay, this is what was here or what is here, and this is how Planning and Development is, you know, zoning and how we see this in the future. And then, you know, you’d have public art up there and say, this is what it represents.

So I started giving tours, and I tell a lot of jokes, and people were like, oh, you’re good at this. You should—you should do it more. And so, I just—I didn’t want to work for the city anymore. So I, you know, I quit and I started a tour business with a friend of mine that worked for the parks department and also dabbled in, like, 100 different businesses.

And so he got me to, like, have faith in myself to do it. And so I just started doing it. And I tell people I’m not really a guide. I’m a guy with a crass  sense of humor that knows a lot of stuff and will tell you about it, you know?

Yeah. So I was going to ask that because I think there’s a big difference between being a researcher and being a guide. And it sounds like you have that magic mix between the two where you can be entertaining and—but also you have the information. You’re not—it’s not like you’re blowing smoke. I get the distinct feeling that nothing comes out of your mouth that you haven’t researched, and that isn’t a fact that you can—

Well, when it’s history. Right? I—you know—yeah. The other things—yeah, sometimes those are at other events. Right. But yeah, I try to—I try to usually have a couple sources. You know, I noticed something with local history where, you know, the person isn’t necessarily a historian or a journalist writing, that they’ll use, for instance, one article from a paper, and it might be an opinion piece that somebody wrote in 1885.

And—but you can’t just rely on that one source. You know, you have to go find other source materials. Right? And so I always try to make sure I have several sources, you know, if I’m—especially if it’s going to be something kind of, you know, like a pretty out-there claim, you know.

Sure. I mean, the 208 show just did a—a bit on the Ku Klux Klan being—gathering down at the old assessor’s office between Third and Second on Main Street.

And, you know, we—that’s on my tour, one of my walking tours. And so—but before I just run out there and go, guess what? You know, I want to make sure that I have a bunch of sources backing that up.

Yeah. You know, it’s not your most light-hearted claim to say, hey, by the way—but that’s a great way to say, hey, folks, it wasn’t just down in Dixie. Yeah, you know, it happened up here, right? And—it was a different version of what we had in the 1870s, you know, after the Civil War. And so it’s just really—you have that source material. And I found an application form for the Women of the Ku Klux Klan, Boise chapter, 1928.

And so—lo and behold—I went into this rabbit hole of research. And I found out that when it came to women’s rights, the Klan was progressive. Interesting. They would allow women to have voting rights and connection to, you know, the—the bank vault, so to speak. You know, there’s also the other side that they’re, you know, racist and a hate group, but—Right. For that—intent and purposes, they’re horrible, obviously. But yeah. So this is something I talk about on the tour. But if you’re going to talk about it, you better have your information, you know.

Right. Yeah. You know, to throw that out and then find out your great-grandmother was a part of it and not know. Right. And if you—and if you do talk about it—Right, right. You know, I didn’t do it, but I can talk about it. Sure. You know, and so—yeah, that’s always where you want to line up your ducks in a row.

Yeah, yeah. Have everything, you know, in order. That’s an interesting observation—history from your perspective—as far as, because I think a lot of times we can rewrite history to make it more convenient for how we’re living now or how our beliefs are right now or that sort of thing.

It is interesting to look at it just straightforward and say it’s strictly just facts. Look at them. Do with them what you may, but these are just the facts. This happened. This is the situation. These are who were doing it. And just take it as it is. I—I do think we struggle as a society right now to be able to do that for 125,000,000%.

That’s a loaded question. Yeah. No, no, it’s—it’s true. Like, if you are—if you are—again, back to my original, you know, education. You have ideology, and ideology can, you know, build a large—you know, I mean, nationalism can be a tool for good sometimes, but it can be a—a tool for authoritarian power.

And what you do is you—you—you take something that’s historical, and then you augment it with B.S., you know, essentially—and so usually a majority in any, you know, country or power structure—the majority often control the narrative. And if they don’t feel good about the—the history that’s being told, which is really ideology, they change it and they try to change it for everybody. And I see that going on. If you like history and you’re always happy and pleased by what you’re reading, then you’re not reading history. You know, I mean—Yeah, that’s probably fair.

This term—I, for my podcast, originally it was going to be this theme of, like, what is the real America? Because you always hear it thrown out and—like—well, it’s relative, you know. I mean, your America is going to be different than somebody on, like, the Pine Ridge Reservation from the Lakota Sioux. Sure. Sure. Like, so it’s always a loaded term. Like, what—real America. What do you mean? You know, what is it to you? That’s all it is about. What is it to you?

Right. And let’s mash it together and just talk about the craziness that is America, you know. Yeah. So, okay, I—I feel like this is a good segue. I’m not sure if it is or not, but I—so, like, I kind of understand that part of your tours—I was on your website and kind of looking around—have to do with, like, you know, like ghost tours and, like, kind of the—that sort of, like—and so—so there’s, like, the dark kind of interesting, and I think as human beings that ignites people to be interested in history sometimes.

Yeah. So—so what say you about that? Is that—did that—was that a natural turn? Is that just who you are that you kind of go to those places, or did you just learn that people will engage more if you’re telling the weird and dark and—I like weird. Yeah, I like weird, but I—I don’t love true crime. The reason I did is because that’s—when we did a survey—and that’s what people wanted. But—A bunch of sickos out here. Yeah, well, I did this tour. I started in the Old Pen. They’d let me do that, and it was like eight hours long. Wow. And you’d get some people that are, like, a little too far into true crime, you know. I’m like, you know, I don’t want to be in a room alone with you, pal. Yeah. Just like—you know, they’d ask you questions like, well, what—was the scalpel serrated? I’m like, I don’t know, buddy, okay? You know—just weird things like that.

Amazing.And what I want to do is—a lot of people are into the psychology of a crime. Right? And we get more women than men by far. And this is a messed-up stat, but, you know, more women, like, are interested in true crime because it happens to them more. Right. And so I find the women have the questions, and it’s kind of become like a public service announcement for me. I’m like, don’t go on this part of the Greenbelt at night. Maybe any part of the Greenbelt. 

The ghost stuff—I’ve always been interested in the ghost stuff because behind any ghost story is great history. Right. So, you know, my—buddy of mine, Jeff Wade—and I—we wrote two books together: Murder and Mayhem in Boise—you know, that was just their title, the publisher Arcadia—and then Haunted Boise. Haunted Boise gave me the chance to just dig way deep into Fort Boise and learn about all the stuff that happened there. And then, you know, like, hey, there was a guy carrying a cannonball, and then his—oh, by the way, his intestine, you know, twisted somehow. Now he’s dead, you know. Oh— Like, gosh, I’m glad I don’t live back then. But—And people lean into that though. That’s like—oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, people want to know.

For instance, you want to ask kind of—oh, what’s the number one, you know, deadliest disease in history? A lot of people say, oh, the bubonic plague or something like that. It was tuberculosis, you know. Number one killer of all time. The white death. The white plague, they called it. And so this—I—what I like to tell people is like, you know, you get a lot of people buried in, you know, prior to 1930, right—that died of tuberculosis, and even in the 1940s and 50s, and that was, you know, when they were learning about how to treat it. But this was the place in the 1800s and early 1900s where you would come to get away from tuberculosis because it was a dry climate. And still, you know, every other person up on the—on the hillside is, you know, died of tuberculosis, you know.

So is it—is that because it just extended over so many decades? Like, it didn’t get under control quick, and that’s why there’s so many people that—Well, first off, like, you know, life has to continue. But, in cities, you know, dense population areas—you just—people cough and you get it. Yeah. You know, and before they had, you know, ways to treat it—is it penicillin? I don’t know. Okay. You know, there’s really nothing you could do except go to a dry climate. Try to get lots of fresh air. And sometimes it worked. And sometimes it—oftentimes it didn’t. 

But it seemed to be this variant where, you know, people—some people get COVID and they’re okay. It’s like having a bad—like a flu. Right. And then there are people that it hits just like a hammer, you know, like a freight train.

And that seemed to be how it was with TB too. Some people just couldn’t fight it. But, you know, looking all the way back into the treatment, they started putting people in caves back in Kentucky. Like, oh, well, you need that nice moist air. So go build a cabin out of stone in Mammoth Cave, you know, like—things like that.

And we found that all out to tie to TB treatment here in Idaho, you know, and—like, there’s these crazy tie-ins you never would expect. Yeah. Interesting. So—speaking of—of crazy things, I’m wondering if there is a story that—that even surprised you when you—like some—some historical fact or something that took place that even you were like, wow, holy cow.

That’s—Yeah. So the person who started at least the—the testing for TB—I know we’re talking about TB, but, for a podcast—I found out that the—a big hero in Idaho history who nobody knows about was Dr. Alan L. Hart. And Dr. Alan Hart—I forget their first name—was the first female-to-male transition surgery in the United States in 1918. And they got their PhD as a—a woman and then had the surgery. And they were much more understanding in certain ways back then than they were today. And so—but then at times, like, this Dr. Alan Hart eventually, you know, went to work for Stanford, a hospital—was outed, essentially—had to move, but eventually came to Idaho with this idea for mobile TB testing vans.

And they put X-ray technology—early, you know, X-ray technology, we’re talking in the 1930s and 40s—that would drive to rural areas where TB testing, you know, never happened. And so they—they were able to treat these people and save lives. And so then Dr. Alan Hart went to what is now the haunted Gooding Hope—you know, hotel TB hospital—

And they set up all this—this whole clinic and saved thousands of people in Idaho. Had an office here—shoot, it might have been in this building. I’m not sure. But they had offices downtown, and—yeah—Dr. Alan Hart also wrote thrillers involving doctors, and—yeah, this amazing person that nobody knows about. Right?

A lot of information at the University of Oregon about them. But also you have a whole collection at the Idaho State Archives about the TB hospital in Gooding, and you have pictures of everything—like every stage of the testing facility that they had. Wow.

Yeah. And—and you—like, treating—if you had to use surgery, they would prop up the lung inside your—in your back of the lung with, like, ping-pong balls. How—what is that? You think doctors have the latest technology—it’s like, oh, let’s get some ping-pong balls, prop up this lung, deflate it, and we’ll see what happens if it’s not being used. Like, what? But then the other thing that I found that was weird, and I start with my walking tour, was down again at the old assessor’s office between Third and Second on Main.

It was the center of town. It wasn’t in the center of town because in 1870–71, when it was being built, there were very few stone structures, right? And it had this lawn. And so everybody—everybody knew of it. And they’d go and congregate in what would be a park. But—so in 1871 there was an infestation of feral cats in Boise.

Now, the Statesman said upwards of 8,000 to 10,000. I think that’s a gross overstatement. But, you know, because embellishment—sales—you know, exaggeration sold papers. Sure. But then what—what we, lo and behold, find is that when they had this feral cat problem, you know, and I don’t know—you know, I’m imagining some grandma rolling into town with, like, six cats, and it just got out of hand.

But anyway—so—so, there was a group of guys that had—well, you’ve seen Tombstone. Cowboys could be cowboys, but they could also be a gang. They had guns, booze. Yeah, it was just a natural thing. Testosterone. Oh, yeah.

And so the Skimmerhorn boys, as they were called, gathered a bunch of dudes together on a weekend in late June. The papers—I found the articles were in early July, Statesman articles—but it was about the Cat Round-Up. And so they literally got in lines, like what they call skirmish lines, about three to four feet apart. One night at 8:00, they put out a notice that said, if you have a house cat, keep it inside. And then they said, basically, yeah, if the cat’s below one year of age—you know—

Don’t hunt it. Like—what does it have I.D.? Yeah. I was like, excuse me? Yeah, yeah. Anyway—so, and then they—they literally—like, there were gunshots, you know, and then everybody started to walk in opposite directions. And they literally started herding cats to two locations, the assessor’s office and then 14th and Idaho, where there was a mill—Jacobs Mill and distillery.

Everybody knew these landmarks, and it was a competition. So they wanted to see if they could round up 3,000 cats. And the word they used was “process” them. And—and then they saw who got the 1,500 cats processed first between the two groups, and they had judges. Wild. They did everything like that. And it was all for—you would win a banquet that the losing team would hold for you. Really?

Yeah. And so, long story short, I don’t know what team won, but there was a banquet, and—and it was like the—the Cat Round-Up Ball. I’m not sure. And—anyway, at the door, the losing team could get in if they presented three processed cat pelts and a jar of tallow fat from the cats.

And that’s rather gross. But then, like, what I tell people on the—you know, I’m like, does this sound like a brutal tale of violence against animals in the Old West? But—yes. But will it change your mind if I told you it was for charity? So wild And so all this stuff—like, they had a ball, and I believe the ball was down where, like, the Owyhee Hotel is on the other side—there’s—I call it the toothpick building. It’s got that—like—little toothpick-looking things all over. It was the old Grand Hotel. But before that, in the 1860s and 70s, there was a place called Capitol Hall. And it was this big, you know, wooden structure where there would be boxing matches and speeches and events. And so that’s where they had it.

And so, yeah, this was all for the—the poor. And so winter was always approaching. And so they stitched the—the cat pelts together to make coats—Oh—To give to the poor. And then they turned the cat fat into candles for them. Yeah. I mean, I did not expect to find this story when I said—you know—That’s fascinating. I saw something like “cat pelt coats,” and I said, what? But then you know that some of the animals—the cats, the big cats in the hills—they would get—they’d get one back for the animal kingdom, because it was a much more dangerous place to go hiking up in those foothills back in the 1860s and 70s than it is now, right? Yeah I bet.

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, I’m—I’m fascinated. The thought of what a cat pelt coat looks like. Right. Well, like, different breeds of cat—like—did you—like, you got a tabby over here and you got, like, a Persian cat. Right. Do you—do—Well, and I wonder if there’s any where they threw—somebody threw red paint on them for ’em. I doubt—I’m just kidding. It was not always a good place to be an animal in a Western town.

No, no. I—any type of animal. I don’t think— The horses seem to be mistreated. You know, it’s a different time. We didn’t know necessarily exactly how to take care of the animals as well as we could. No, I mean, there were stable fires and things—like, I don’t talk about those on the tours because people can handle people getting hurt, but they do not like it—No. Oh, that’s true. Yeah. They do not want to know about animals getting hurt. That’s—Yeah. I—at the beginning of the tour I’m like, here’s a trigger warning.

You know, don’t mess with it. You know—people are like— But some people get—I could—I could say that, and people still get mad at me. Like, you know, I’m a cat person. I’m like, well, okay.

Yeah. You know, sorry. You know, it’s just history, manners. Yeah. You signed up for it. So, okay, so it’s—it’s one thing to be a history buff. It’s another thing to try to turn that into a business, which is something that you have done. Right. So can you kind of share with us that particular journey? Like, how did—how did that—how did that go?

Well, yeah. So my business—the business side of things was, you know, first my buddy Travis—he started a cleaning company and, like, renting motorhomes out to people, and he just did all these things, and he just couldn’t do it all.

And so, you know, I said, thanks for the inspiration. I’m going to try and be a businessman. I’m not very good at it. I’m good at talking about history. I’m good at the ideas. You know, I’m the—I’m the diva in front of the telephone, essentially. It’s not even like a camera. So—but, I have gotten—my business partner named London Talbot, and he edits the videos, and he’s been trying to be a businessman too.

But I’m learning that it’s not enough to have just two guys, you know. So we’re trying to find that third element that knows how to, like, conduct business, go out—because I can’t do it all. And I do all the tours too. And so I’m finding that there are limits. And then, you know, based on the economy, sometimes, you know—you make sure that, you know, you make $6,000 in a month, and then the next month you barely make anything.

Yeah. And no matter how much you try to cool a 1978 motorhome, there’s always another problem. You know, you get a really expensive generator and you get a top-of-the-line, you know, fan, AC in your unit—and then, oh, well, when it gets really hot, just when you need it, the generator overheats. And that’s another $5,000 to retrofit a fan.

Yeah, that's the best synopsis of business I think I’ve ever heard. It’s always something.

Yeah, it is always something. And then people come to you—you know, the more people I have, you know, following us, you know, the more people want to work with you or, you know, like, have you thought of doing this, this, or this? And you try it.

Yeah. And you’re like, oh, for some reason I thought I could do that extra thing when I feel like I can’t take on any more extra things right now. Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s just kind of figuring out—basically a chicken running around with its head cut off. That’s me. You know, and so—I will say this. I think a lot of people will go into business without necessarily something passionate.

They say, I’m going to go into business. I’m going to try to make a bunch of money. And then they just kind of try to fit in there—maybe mishmash things that they kind of know how to do—and then they try to make a business out of it.

That sounds accurate. Yeah. You, though—you had your passion first. So your—your passion was there, and—and then it has—driving now the business. So—Right.

So at least you have something—like, I think a lot of times when people start a business and they don’t really have anything to—like—that they’re passionate about, then it’s—that’s been the thing that has kept people coming back. I get repeat customers on tours. But, you know—lo and behold—like, you know, when my friend Natalie came on my tour, and she’s a social media person, right?

I didn’t know anything about Instagram or anything. I just was like, oh, I’m never going to do it. And now we got, like, 65,000 followers on these three different platforms. I’m making a little bit of money. I’m like, I—I’m all right with social.

Yeah, it’s all right. I just don’t want to do anything, like, to edit or post the videos. But I’ll, you know, be the dancing monkey.

You know, we can just talk about things, you know, and that’s what I do. And so, you know, it’s—I never thought that that would happen. But now we’re getting, you know, businesses that are in historic buildings or historic businesses—they’ll—they’ll pay us a little bit of money to do an ad and do some research and talk about their business.

Interesting. Yeah. You know, and—you know, I never thought that would happen. Yeah, well, you’re officially an influencer. Like it or not. Wow. What a fascinating thing. Like, have you been on X, man?

I’m like, what is that? Twitter. Is that—I say Twitter too. My husband’s like, it’s X. You know, I don’t know. The youth tell me to be on—just—just put it on that, you know, all this. Yeah. Whatever.

Yeah. Okay, so—and so you’re on your walking tour. You also have, like, a driving tour.

Yeah. So I have a 1978 GMC Kingsley motorhome, and GMC made motorhomes with these, like, you know—one of the most—there’s a movie called Volunteers, with Tom Hanks and, like, John Candy. I think that’s the one. But it’s in some of these movies. Or was it another movie? Anyway—or was it with Bill Murray? Dang it, I can’t remember. Or Young Sheldon, that show, they had—oh, yeah, they have an old GMC motorhome, and these things are so incredible.

They’re so heavy because they made them with real wood and metal. That’s why they’re so quality. But you got to really understand when to brake. Oh, geez. You know—like, oh, geez. Yeah. And then—and they’re just—they’re so ’70s. They have lime-green carpet. Mine’s, like, really bright orange, with, you know, just—it’s like the ugliest colors they could get, that’s what they put together. There’s one that’s just, like, snot yellow.

And then, like—Why do I know exactly what color that—Oh, yeah. It’s—it’s gross. And then there’s, like, a darker—You have a worse cold. Yeah—yellow. And then, like, almost brown yellow. So you need to go to the doctor.

Yeah. That’s—that’s the Glenbrook series. You know, there’s the Palm Beach that’s like bright yellow and green, and then there’s, like, the Brookhaven which is dark blue and light blue, and mine’s the Kingsley, which is—you know, and they—they have swivel chairs and really cool retro-looking clocks and stuff.

And people get on the van, they’re like, I actually feel like I might become the victim of a crime. I thought you were going to say it’s like literally walking into a piece of history. Right? Well, they do say that. But, like—you know—and then you just start driving out to the desert. People are like, I’m a little tired.

Oh, I’m just—You’re going to leave me for dead. Yeah, yeah. No. But people—so the name of the tour, which is, you know—because—the Boise True Crime 1970s Van Twinkie Tour.

Yeah. Because I get a bowl of Twinkies and I give them to people. And—and they can bring their booze on as long as it’s in the living space of the van. Like, that filters out people that are going to be offended by—Yeah—you know, things. So, you know—Smart. Right? Yeah.

It’s just in the name. So—so you got—you have that one. You do walking tours as well. I—my first one was called Macabre History of Boise. And it was just all sorts of stuff like, you know, in the McCarty Building, fourth floor, there was an electroshock clinic—Wylie’s Sanatorium.

Oh. And, now where there’s a Subway—used to be—or the YMCA—on State Street. That used to be his sanatorium. You know, so I talk about weird things. And he would shock you with these huge batteries that were kept in boxes, like wood boxes. And he would just get a crank—get a nice electric charge—and he would just—you know, if you had—for women, it was hysteria. Right?

Right. If you were sad or you found your husband attractive or whatever—well, you had hysteria, or melancholy. And so there was a treatment, and it would just shock your temple. And then—I would have been perpetually shocked. Yeah. So—and so then, like, it’s basically—if a doctor didn’t understand what was wrong with you and you were a woman, you had hysteria.

And so, like, that was—or you would go to the sanatorium if you had money to spend on it, and he would give you the milk treatment and you would just drink that thick farm milk for weeks, and they would shock you periodically throughout the day. And—and—and so—and so, like, that led me down this—this, like, rabbit hole where I looked at other treatments, and there was a thing called Dr. Sanden’s Electric Belt for Weak Men.

And that was like male hysteria. And so it had—it was basically a brass or copper belt with a little, like, conductor in the back, and you would plug it in, and then it had a suspensory in the front. And you know what that’s for. And then you would turn this on and it would send electric pulses through your, you know, pelvic region. Oh my gosh. And this was something they—like—you could—it was advertised right next to, you know, Wylie’s Sanatorium. And they had, like, health pages, and you had the most random, like, drawings in these areas. And so—or in these parts of the paper. And so, like, that’s one thing that—you know, you just go down this rabbit hole.

And so that’s on the Macabre tour. You know, like, oh, that’s where that happened. You know. Or descriptions of the canals in the 1860s and 70s. You know, they weren’t so picturesque with the water wheels. Right? The, you know, the water got low and it was, like, pretty gross. So we talk about that kind of stuff. You know—disease rates, some crimes. You know, there’s a house on the corner of First and Main—got a nice little spire.

It’s right next to the haunted 110 Main Street, which was a frat house at—you know, and the—before it was, like, a haunted house. Anyway, right next to that is a house where there was, like, an infamous crime back in 1898. And it was a love triangle shooting, you know—like, affair and all these things.

And so that’s on the tour. You know—so this is not the same as the tour train, then, you’re telling me. No, definitely not. No. And I know they have new ownership, and the nice people—the tour train have actually reached out. The original tour train that we were talking about with the red—Yes. Yeah. I actually befriended somebody from that family. She works at, like, Scoria Winery out—Oh no kidding.

Yeah. And she was like, oh yeah, that was my family. And then—somehow it got purchased, and I guess a person drives around and there’s, like, a recording, and I don’t know if that’s still the thing, but—Interesting. But it’s not the same little red train. Like, that’s—because I haven’t seen that in years. Okay. I want to actually drive these things called, like, tuk-tuks that they have in, like—you would see Burma or something, you know, and, you know, Thailand. And they’re like little, like, motorcycles, but, like, merged with a minivan.

Oh, wow. And so you have, like, six seats, and it’s like—you know, because the North End is not easy to drive through with the huge motor—Oh, yeah, that’s true.

And they have money, so I’m scared to park in front of their houses, you know. And, like, they could charge—they could pay for a lawyer. Like, I don’t want to deal with that, you know. So I just want to get these little motorcycle things. But I’d probably come with her. But weird is our thing.

Yes. You know. Yes, I love that. Yeah. So speaking of weird, because I did listen a little bit to it—you also have a podcast. We tried to for—for a long time. Yeah. So you’re not currently recording it?

No, because I thought for sure—here’s a winning—you know, here’s a winning combination or equation. You drive this cool old motorhome and then we go have interesting conversations with people. I still think it would work. It’s just so much time and effort. My—Go figure—you know, writing a script and researching something and then talking about it and then, you know, like, cleaning up—Too much.

Oh, yeah, that does sound like a lot of work. And, like, this studio is nice. We were just at some rickety thing. We’re drinking, like, Coors Light—Coors because we were responsible. That’s the responsible—And—and just like, we have the cocaine crabber guy. You know, I don’t know if you listened to that one.

No. Yeah, yeah, I may need to, though. He’s my mechanic, but he also—his mom’s a doctor of psychology somewhere. She’s an amazing person. And his sister’s like—and he’s—I’m like, what did you do, Phillips? And he’s like, oh, yeah. I went—I crabbed for my dad, and then we ran cocaine in the crabbing boat.

Okay. Oh, what? Whoa. We’re having you on the podcast, buddy. That’s awesome. And so, like, that was just one of the—so—but that was really easy because he just came over to my house and, you know, sat down and we just—you know, me and London and—and Phillips—we just talked about that, and, you know, he had all these interesting stories about like, oops, he fell over into the Bering Sea and—and his dad just realized at the last minute that he was, you know, in the water and turned around.

I’m like, well, that had to have been scary, you know. And it’s just—just you meet people. But if you have a great interview like that—like, well, how am I going to upstage that? Yeah. You know, and it—but local authors—my buddy Tomas Baiza wrote this great book called Delivery—I’m plugging my guest—but we talked for, like, three and a half hours.

This is way too much for a podcast, I think. You know, I don’t know. It just depends on the listener and just, you know, like, some listeners are willing to listen for hours. Yeah. I mean, you know, stuff on the Idaho myths, you know, it was hugely popular. But it’s very hard to condense that into, you know, a nice little package that people stay on.

But I guess, you know—Yeah, some—some people have successful podcasts apparently, like, way long episodes, so—Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know. So I think I know the answer to this question, but what keeps you motivated to continue to uncover historical stuff and share it with the community? I think—I think I understand the part of your life where it’s probably built into you that you’re always going to be seeking out the information.

Yeah. But the sharing it with other people part might be the part where I personally would be like, this part’s getting old. Right? Right. Yeah. You wouldn’t want to do—well, I mean, I think it depends on—it depends on the people that you’re sharing it with and the people who are, you know—who—who you’re—working with. I’m addicted to it, I guess.

Yeah. I like—I like making people laugh, and I love history. And I don’t know if—I respect standup comics because they can just get up there and the crowd can be harsh. But I—in my element, you know, I’m just very off the cuff. But I love to—to—like, hearing people laugh is—is the addiction to me.

And then when I can just get on a—like, we both can vibe together on history, you know, my—with my audience, I love it. But then sometimes you get these people I call duds. They’ll just stare at you. Like, is there any activity going on behind those eyes? And then at the end of the tour, sometimes they’ll be like, that was great, and they’ll slip you, like, a $20 bill.

Like, where was that during the tour? You know, I definitely know what you’re talking about. Yeah. That’s funny. Or you’ll just get a whole group of those people and they’re just staring at you the whole time. And—but then it’s the—but then if the audience is just really on, you know, on point and we’re all having fun, you know, I’ll say a two-hour tour, but it’ll be, like, three hours because, you know, they just don’t care.

Yeah. And I’m having a fun time, you know. Yeah. People are like, well, what do you figure that you’re making this amount of money if you do this amount of hours and—you know, I don’t really think about that.

Yeah. I’m just—I can tell that just by the way that you are. You’re—Yeah. And that you love what you’re doing, and you probably get lost in it. Well, there’s—there’s other tours, and people say on these ghost tours they’ll—they’ll say things that aren’t true. And it drives me nuts. And it’s because—it’s like—like, let go, you know.

Yeah. But say the Idanha’s name right. Right. You know, and then, like, tell people something that’s true. You know, like, for Idaho’s Jack the Ripper, for instance—Raymond Snowden, right? He was the last guy hanged at the Old Pen. Well, they say he hid in what is, you know, now the Belmont Barbershop—it was Hannaford’s—Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Hid there all night. If you just read the papers from that day and age, and then you can get the sentencing transcripts through the State Supreme Court records, you find out that that didn’t happen at all. Oh. He went there to get some smokes, you know, and he threw some stuff away—he claimed—in the bathroom. But he went bowling after he murdered somebody. And then he went up fishin’, and there’s—like—he doesn’t even remember what happened because he’s—well, he’s a little crazy, and he’s, you know—he was drunk and all these things.

So it’s like—people just tell you what you can Google. Like, well, you can do that on your own. So when people just do that, it drives me nuts because I am a little bit crazy about this stuff. Yeah. And if you’re going to pay good money for my tour, I want to give you the best performance I can.

That is the perfect setup for talking about our sponsor. So this episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet, and planet-friendly products. At Zamzows, we believe great communities are built on roots, whether they’re in the ground or in the stories that shape us. Visit zamzows.com or stop by one of our 12 Treasure Valley locations. Nobody knows like Zamzows.

See how I did that. Yeah. Just kind of worked it right in there. I like it. And now it’s time for a part that we call Sharing Is Caring. Yes, it is. Really what it is—it’s going to be some rapid-fire questions coming your direction. Are you ready for this?

For sure. Okay. So what is a book or a podcast that you recommend to people who love history? Okay, a book? Geez, that’s—I—I’ve read a lot of history books. You wrote a history book. Yeah, yeah. Kind of. Yeah, yeah. Two. Right? Yeah. I should plug my own book. You should. Murder and Mayhem in Boise by Jeff Wade and Mark Iverson. All right. No, that’s not the book, though. One that changed my mind on history— Let’s see. Oh, of course I don’t remember the name. Dang it. And now I’m going blank.

Well, what was it about?It’s—so it’s about immigration in America. Ends by a guy named Ronald Takaki—Takagi. But—another professor at BSU, Dr. Bieter—his brother was the mayor.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. John Bieter. Dave Bieter. Okay. Anyway, he—he gave us this book, and this historian just basically—just in a really engaging manner, but also academic—outlined, he said, the history of America is immigration, and the history of immigration is America. And we kind of—like, what’s the analogy? Everybody says America is a melting pot. Right. And he’s like, no, it’s a chopped salad.

You remember in the ’90s we’re like, there’s no difference. We don’t see colors. We all blend together. You know, it’s like—is that really true? Like, can’t we see the differences but celebrate them?

Yeah. And that’s what kind of America has—it’s like, you know, we’ve always been trying to, you know, grapple with diversity and—and, you know, if America isn’t—America should be diverse, you know—like, it really defines us. Yes. Right. You know, and so, like, even before immigration came to America, you had such a diversity of tribes—the different tribes all across what would become the United States. I mean, it’s amazing. And, so that book that I can’t remember the name—we’ll look it up and we’ll—Ronald Takaki.

Okay. Very good. Yeah. Okay, I love it. All right. How about a Boise spot that you would send someone if they want to feel the city’s history? Oh, jeez. Yeah, that’s a big one. I don’t want to say something cliché. But—it’s the best place. The Old Idaho State Pen. Yeah. It’s so great. Yeah. It’s—it’s—it’s—and there are so many stories there. And their tour guides are really, really passionate about what they’re doing.

And you—you’ll find, you know—sometimes our state doesn’t like to tell the darker side of our history, but at the Old Pen, they—you know, it’s part—it’s enfolded in there. And there’s a podcast called Behind Gray Walls. And it’s done by the director, Anthony Parry. And I think it’s still going. But it looks at the history of Idaho, but through the premise of this prison and who came in and out of it, and it’s fantastic.

Fascinating. Gosh, such good stuff. It’s great. This is great. Okay, how about a favorite local business that you admire? Oh, jeez. Let’s—Flying M Coffee. It’s my place. It’s where I write a lot of my stuff. I go in there and, you know, like, it took me about ten years for them to, like, say hello to me and recognize me.

So I feel like—yeah, I started—I moved here in 2009, you know, and some of my favorite people work there, and it’s like you had to earn their hello. And then they knew my name. Oh. Oh. And now they’re like, oh, you like an oat milk latte? I’m like, why, yes, I do. I don’t like an oat milk latte.

Yeah. It’s—I hated them at first and now I prefer them. That’s—I thought—Exactly how I was. Yeah. Yes. I—in fact, my very first one was at Flying M that I was like, all right, I guess I’ll try this oat milk stuff.

And they’ve always been a welcoming place. Yes. You know, you can be your own brand of weird, whatever it is. You can just be yourself. And it reminds me of my hometown, Seattle. You know, it’s just like—definitely Portland, you know?

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Anyway. Okay, last one. Something outside of history that’s bringing you joy right now. Funko Pops. No. I know. Okay, well—You’ll—My kids, for sure. Everybody says that. I’m like, I shouldn’t say that because everybody says that. But, you know—Are you a parent?

I am. You know, sometimes I feel like—the analogy I see in my head, or the picture I have in my head is like, on the National Geographic, you know, they’ll have a chimp or a gorilla, and it’ll—usually a mother—unfortunately for lady apes, right—but it’ll have, like, just baby chimps crawling all over it.

And the mother looks just kind of like—ugh. I feel that way sometimes with my children. Yeah. But also, they’re tremendously cute. They are totally into what you’re doing. I just bought a townhouse, and so, like, they’re so excited. They love history.

Oh. It’s one of my—You’ll be driving around down Hill Road and my son will see a pile of old lumber, and he’s like, it’s a historic remnant, you know? That’s cool. Yeah. Look at this, buddy. And, like, can we go to an old pioneer cemetery today, Dad? I’m like, yeah, yeah, we can figure it out. Oh, we go on Daddy Adventures. And so I’ll go in the Owyhees and find some—there’s a church out there called the Oriana—you know, it’s a Catholic church that dates back to 1885. The town to the 1860s.

Wow. And they love going on these trips and finding things with me. And I love to do that. Yeah. Yeah, well, I—my kid just left for college. I mean, literally one weekend for being gone. So—so I, I miss the days when my kid was the age of your kids, and each age is wonderful. Like, I remember that—that—that stage because they’re not yet—they’re not teenagers. They’re not—they’re not, like, awkward yet.

No. And what’s great is their interest in everything. And I was telling you earlier, like, Zamzows to me—it’s like a—it’s a guinea pig place. Yeah. It’s a—it’s, you know, ferret—Yeah. That’s—my kids could give a hoot about the plants. Exactly. And see, you know, I’m like, oh, the spiders, kids. And they’re like, no. They run right to the ZamZoo—I suppose. Yeah the ZamZoo.

Yeah. So I can make—I can make, you know, half an hour—excursion that—they’re—Yeah, it’s pretty great—crazy. But that’s kids, you know. My kids—yeah. Actually my daughter still, when we go in the store, goes immediately to the ZamZoo too. So—Yeah. I guess that’s—that’s an all age—I was going to say, I kind of—I do that myself.

That’s pretty good. Okay. Now is the part of the show—This is what we ask all of our guests. Same question. And you can answer it however you like. There are no rules to this. Okay. So what is something that nobody knows?

The darkest psychological episodes of my life? No. I collect vintage Star Wars toys, and I’m a little bit of a fanatic about it. Really? Oh, yeah. I—it’s a little bit more of an obsession. You’re like, you shouldn’t spend that money. You should spend it on flour and bread and food for your family. Like—yeah, I found—I found the Millennium Falcon. Oh my God, it’s got the stickers and everything, you know. So I have this huge collection—well, for me. I don’t know—other guys. But, you know—and my son loves to touch the toys. Oh, yeah. I’m like they’re artifacts son. You can’t play with the rancor’s mouth motion action. It could ruin the motion action. And it’s—be less valuable.

Right. But it’s good business too. So, like, people don’t know that I’m a fanatic about that. But, you know, I bought something for $115 in 2016. And now, because of all the shows on Disney—that Star Wars—now it’s worth, like, $700. No kidding. Yeah. And that’s—everything that I bought has gone up because of the shows. So when Disney comes out with a new one, even if it sucks, I’m like, yes, yes, do it.

Well, that’s cool. Yeah, that’s—yeah. That’s a—that’s a great—that’s a good answer. I used to care about it. Like, people would be like, nerd. And I’d be like, you’re the nerd. Great comeback. Yeah. Jeez. Yeah. You got them. I know—stinger. Mark, this has been an amazing conversation. Oh thank you. I really enjoyed this. I want to go on all of your tours now. I’m super excited—about—because your history is so legit, and it goes so deep. Like, you do—you really—you’re very interesting, and what you’ve got in that brain of yours, man.

Well, we have one coming out with Ochos Cocktail Bar in early October. It’s going to be, you know—you have a drink there, they talk about the building, make a mixed drink for it, and we do a walk about that area of Boise, tell you that specific history and some weird tales. And we go back to Ochos and you have another drink and—Oh fun.

Yeah. If there’s booze involved—involved—people will buy the ticket. Booze and history. I like it. All right. Well, perfect. Well, thank you again for being on the show. I really appreciate the time.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to follow the podcast and leave us a review. And if you’re curious about Boise’s history, check out IdaHistory.com for upcoming tours and stories. Wonderful stories.

Yeah. Next week we’ll hear from another incredible voice shaping Treasure Valley. And until then, thanks for listening.