Nobody Knowz with Callie Zamzow
Hosted by Callie Zamzow, Nobody Knowz is a Boise, Idaho-based podcast dedicated to exploring the connections that shape our lives—between people, animals, and the environment. Featuring stories and voices from across Boise, Nampa, Caldwell, and the greater Treasure Valley, the show is rooted in authenticity and driven by curiosity. Through thoughtful conversations, it champions integrity, sustainability, and lifelong learning.
Nobody Knowz with Callie Zamzow
How This 586-Year-Old Industry Survived Every Technology Shift
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HOW DIGITAL PRINTING HELPED A 130-YEAR-OLD BUSINESS SURVIVE
Digital printing completely changed the print industry, forcing traditional printing companies to adapt to faster production, smaller orders, and new customer expectations.
In season 2 episode 2 of Nobody Knowz, Callie sits down with Scott Gipson of Caxton Printers to explore how a family-owned printing and publishing company founded in 1895 survived the transition from traditional printing to digital technology and what artificial intelligence could change next.
HOW DIGITAL PRINTING CHANGED THE PRINT INDUSTRY
When Caxton Printers began in Caldwell, Idaho, newspapers, books, advertisements, business records, and public information all depended on physical print.
Early printing required individual pieces of lead type to be arranged by hand before words could be transferred onto paper. Today, Caxton uses advanced digital printing technology that can produce materials faster, more efficiently, and in smaller quantities.
Scott explains that print did not die when digital technology arrived. The industry changed, and printing companies had to change with it.
HOW ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS CHANGING PUBLISHING
After surviving the transition to digital printing and e-books, the publishing industry is now entering another major technological shift.
Scott explains how Caxton already uses artificial intelligence for correspondence, fact-checking, book-cover concepts, design assistance, and publishing workflows.
He also believes AI could have a larger impact on textbooks and education than the original transition from printed textbooks to digital textbooks.
A digital textbook still asks a student to read traditional material on a screen. Artificial intelligence could completely change how students find information, interact with educational content, and complete assignments.
WHY PRINT ISN’T DEAD
The print industry has repeatedly been declared dead, but Scott believes that description misunderstands what happened.
Print did not disappear. The amount being printed changed, the technology improved, and the reasons people choose physical materials became more specific.
Books, educational materials, historical records, specialized publications, and commercial printing still serve purposes that digital media cannot completely replace.
The future is not necessarily print versus digital. It is understanding which format delivers the most value for a particular audience, message, or experience.
00:00 – Welcome to The Nobody Knowz Podcast
02:05 – Six Generations of a Family Printing Business
05:15 – How Caxton Preserved Family Ownership
08:00 – Why Caxton Must Continue Publishing Books
09:25 – Changes Facing the Print Industry
11:15 – Traditional Printing vs. Digital Printing
16:20 – How Caxton Became a Recognized Book Publisher
19:15 – Protecting a 130-Year-Old Family Business
21:00 – Why Print Is Not Dead
22:30 – How Businesses Survive Major Change
23:25 – The Fire That Destroyed Caxton Printers
26:00 – How Community Supports Local Businesses
29:15 – The Future of Community Leadership
31:00 – Why Younger Leaders Need Mentorship
36:20 – Why Physical Books Still Matter
37:30 – How Print on Demand Changed Publishing
40:20 – The Book Publishing Process Explained
43:35 – How AI Could Change Textbooks
45:20 – How Publishers Are Using Artificial Intelligence
47:00 – The Future of Printing and Publishing
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Everyone has a story, a moment, a lesson, or a piece of their life most people may never hear. All right. Well, welcome to Nobody Knows. I uh I'm very excited about our guest today because we have some some similarities, but in some ways, you're like to the tenth power of the things that I am working through with my own family business. Um and so I I want to just really quickly um give a quick little history, if I can, of just sort of um Caxton's story. Um so when Caxton's story began, Idaho had only been a state for five years. So that's pretty crazy. Um Caldwell was not, uh it was not like the treasure valley that we know today. It was very, very different. So it's probably like the wild, wild west. Um it was like a young frontier town. So this sounds really silly to those of us who can think back that, but maybe some of our listeners will have to kind of process the fact that there were no smartphones, no internet, no television, no airplanes. I mean, this was a completely different time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that we had a train station in Caldwell.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00Caldwell was actually more of a hub in the Treasure Valley than um certainly Nampa at that time, because the train stopped in Caldwell. And I think that's one of the reasons why my great-great-grandfather probably settled in Caldwell, is they um he was in agriculture and then also doing an agricultural newspaper, bought some land outside of Caldwell on to farm and then run this newspaper. And he probably, and I don't know for a fact, but it's because the train brought him there.
SPEAKER_01Ah, interesting. Okay, well, Scott Gibson, welcome to the podcast. I hadn't even introduced you yet. That's all right, Captain. Thank you for having me. Yes, it's it's wonderful to have you here. And I uh we do share this kind of interesting, long-standing history. So can you can you talk to us a little bit? So we were kind of talking about this before we got started, as far as um, you know, who who actually began it within the within your family, and then maybe how it has transferred hands and who who did what kind of would you be willing to kind of give us just a quick we have a pretty direct, we understand how that happened.
SPEAKER_00Um in 1894, 1895, Albert A.E., Albert Edgar Gibson, A.E. Gibson, came from Greeley, Colorado and brought his family out, uh, as I just mentioned. Um he was involved in banking and agriculture, and he had uh a desire to start an agricultural weekly newspaper, and he named it the Gem State Rural. And that started in 1895, 1896. And um so he settled in Caldwell and then began raising his family there. And then in the Gem State, the agricultural weekly newspaper business didn't do real well. And so his um uh he had numerous sons. We can touch on some of their history, which I I find very interesting. Um but uh the one of the sons, J. H. Gibson, was working for the newspaper, working in the press room, delivering papers, helping make the newspaper. Um he was a pressman, and uh he wanted to take over. And so he had just got done um with his schooling and purchased some additional equipment and purchased the business from his father, A.E., and thus began Caxton's. Um and as I'm sure you're no doubt aware, um Caxton is named after William Caxton, who was the first printer in English to print books in movable type. So Gutenberg, people think about the first printing press. Yes. William Caxton was the first in English.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um that's where our logo if you've seen the funky logo we have.
SPEAKER_01I love it.
SPEAKER_00And the company was named Caxton Printers, LTD, which is an old instead of incorporated, that's an old English um business term, um, named it after William Caxton. We have a big butt bronze bust of William Caxton's head in our off or in our uh conference room because my great-grandfather J.H. was a voracious reader, loved books, wanted to make things permanent in type, and that's where it came from. And I always think it's funny because I have numerous times over the years have people come up to me and say, Well, I know that Caxton family that started the business. And say, well, there was never a Caxton family involved in Caxton printers in Caldwell. There are other Caxton businesses throughout the world. There was one in New Zealand, there were a number of them in London, there's one in Chicago as early as I think the 20s, as early 1920s. Um that's where it started. So I went from AE to J H. Aaron Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And then so uh so in our family, there was a lot of brothers buying out brothers and and whatnot. So it kept it everything sort of very not sort of, it's a straight line. Did did yours branch out at all?
SPEAKER_00Like do you have an uncle that was part like that's that's one of the um great advantages we've had, like you you apparently with Zamzo's, is there wasn't a lot of branching out. Many of the brothers and sisters wanted nothing to do with this business, and J.H.'s brother, um this is this is where you see how much the bloodlines have thinned over the years. J.H., who founded Caxons, his brother Lawrence Henry Gibson, um was the first road scholar ever in the state of Idaho. He won the Pulitzer Prize in 1965 for um uh the he had a 12-volume um set of books on uh pre-colonial British history, and volume 10, Thunder Graph Thunderclouds Gather in the West, won the Pulitzer Prize. The History Department at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania is named after him.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00The uh honors program at the College of Idaho is the Gibson Honors Program. Needless to say, that was the branch of the family that got away from Caxans and did very well for themselves.
SPEAKER_01Um we have frenches like that too.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01We call them the smart ones.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's what I like I always say. I come from the shallow end of the gene pool.
SPEAKER_01I feel very much the same way.
SPEAKER_00But uh and that continued, whereas you know, J.H. took it over, and then he had two sons, my grandfather and my great uncle, um J.H. Jr. and Gordon. They took uh over after J.H. left, but there were other cousins and uh but nobody really was knocking at the door trying to get in. So you could keep that linear ownership and that linear management um in place without having to um placate um various branches of the family. And I think that's actually one of the secret sauces that has kept us going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is we haven't had those conflicting um perspectives and needs for the family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I've I've uh done some research with family offices where uh they branch off immediately. And you have like by the third or fourth generation, you literally have hundreds of people involved, maybe with just a little bit of ownership, but it changed, it changes completely how things are run and how all the voting and all that fun stuff.
SPEAKER_00So it's uh it is uh there's an ad advantage to what our well JH created as he was getting on in his years and his kids, J, my grandfather and my great uncle were taking over. Um, he created a generation skipping trust.
SPEAKER_01Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00So actual ownership of the um voting stock and ownership of the company is held by a trustee, which is a bank, and the ability to disperse of uh the stock, sell the company, so to speak, um, is limited until the last person in my father's generation dies. So my generation will probably be the first generation of Gibsons since J.H. passed that actually has, should we choose to do so, the ability to do something without going in and breaking a trust.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00So he um you know, our bylaws are very specific on what the purpose is of the trusts and running our businesses. You know, we must continue publishing books or we're in violation of our bylaws.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00Although we make little to no money publishing books, we are required to do it. And it's a labor love. It's what JH cared most deeply about. Um it's what we're known for outside of this region, is the books that we've published over the years. So maybe we'll touch on that. But I don't I that gives you kind of the lineage of Caxton's and absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk about um, because I know this is true for Zamzas as well. When you look at the company through the years, obviously technology has changed, things have changed. I mean, just if you just jump from 1895 to today, yeah, uh, it's almost night and day what you are doing now. I mean, obviously some of the same things done differently, I'm assuming. We can talk about that. But how how is that transition? Were there any major milestones where you're like, whoa, this is the point where we had to let go of this particular thing because it didn't it was irrelevant? Or are there things like that?
SPEAKER_00Kind of going through a bit of that now. Um we're having to take a look at our business mix and making some tough decisions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um not because of see, one of the other things is we've had we've been operating with four separate business divisions under one roof.
SPEAKER_01So we are asking I'm glad we're not alone in that.
SPEAKER_00We're a commercial printing company, which we are known for, especially regionally. Um we are the book publishing company, which we can touch on. We've done books that are, I mean, internationally known. I sell rights overseas to some of our books. Um and then the other two pieces are have been focused on school markets. Since 1937, Caxons has been the Idaho State Textbook Depository, so we distribute uh probably 80 percent of the curricular materials throughout the state of Idaho. And then piggybacked on top of that is our school and off supplies division, where we sell everything from paper clips to whiteboards, um, locker used to do locker installations. When a new high school was built, we represented a bleacher company that would we would install bleachers. Those things are what's shifting, um especially the school um supply and office supply piece is the one that we're having to come to grips with the fact that we're not Amazon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so that's a difficult one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we're in we're in that process. And then the other big transition points have always been technology.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, we just made a huge investment in one of the most technologically advanced printing presses in the Northwest and installed it in our plant in Caldwell, and now we're trying to make sure we make money doing it.
SPEAKER_01So it's so what was the original way that mostly what was the old your great-great-grandfather when he was all letter press. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So it's literally lining up the letter lead type that would be cut and laid out in reverse, and then a roller would go over it, and that's basically how it was printed. I am not an expert on the printing technology. There are people in this valley that are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, it was old letterpress. Um that's how the newspapers were done back then, and then that's how books were done. We've got uh a trove of old photos that show you things that you look at it now, it's like that can't be real. And that's how everything was done.
SPEAKER_01It's fascinating to think about that.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell And now we've got a digital press that um and uh we've gone digital a long time ago, but the new HP Indigo 15K, it's a big HP press. It was built in Israel, and it instead of ink adhering to the paper, the ink it it lays down, and I'm vastly oversimplifying this, an electromagnetic charge on the paper and the ink adheres to that.
SPEAKER_01Wild.
SPEAKER_00So there's no solvent, there's no fumes, we don't don't have to vent it. It's very it's environmentally friendly.
SPEAKER_01Do you ever think back uh to your great grandfather and think if he knew this, if he's if he saw this, what would he think?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh mind-blowing, right?
SPEAKER_00We we used to have it, I and I I've seen pictures. You know, in the old movies with the the old timey movies with the the guys with the green vis plastic visors type and everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's how we were operating probably his last years. Probably had 30 of the office girls, you know, because that was how it was back in the day, taking dictation. Ledger. We still have huge ledger books where everyone was writing, every transaction was kept in a ledger book manually written.
SPEAKER_01Um that's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00And so now it's, yeah, with your business, with everybody's business, it's a little different now.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is. Can we back up for just a second because you said something about um that there being a train involved? Uh was can you tell us that story as far as your just is that your great, your great great grandfather is I I was just pointing out that Caldwell in the day was uh kind of a rail hub. Yes, yes. But did he choose to come here on purpose?
SPEAKER_00I I could not tell you exactly. I have always kind of thought it was here because that's where the train stopped.
SPEAKER_01Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_00He I don't think he was, you know, he wasn't a hobo that just landed in Caldwell. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, in fairness, not that mine was a hobo, but um I and I feel like we should maybe describe for people that maybe a hobo is because I think a lot of people don't know. But um, my my great-grandfather was he and his brother were where they were leaving and and wanted to go to California where there was work. And so they jumped on a rail car and they were in the cattle car, literally. Like I don't think they probably had tickets. And then they got off in well, my my grandfather got off in Meridian to grab a sandwich. When we came back, the train was moving. And so he literally ended up here. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00AE was when he came from Greeley, he they had done okay out there. And he was uh, you know, he was in banking and agriculture, and I'm sure it was he was looking for opportunities west, as all people did back then, and the train stopped in Caldwell, and that's where the opportunity was because it was a rail hub.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So more commerce, more opportunity, more growth potential. Right. I don't think it was just because he fell off the back of the truck in Caldwell. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_01Like my grandfather, my great grandfather. No, he didn't fall off. He jumped off. Um so did was there is there any history beyond the start of the company that your family was in printing? And like is that is this something that not that you know of?
SPEAKER_00No, just what they were doing in Greeley, which was a combination of ag and he was involved in some banks. I think he was very involved in the odd fellows, which was a I we there's still chapters of that around here. I to be honest with you, can't even tell you what the odd fellows are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I I me neither. Although I'm pertinent. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00Historical, yeah. It's um you know a certain I'm guessing it was a service club type situation. But I our we have really good records from 1895 on. After that, it or before that, it's a little hazy.
SPEAKER_01A little hazy. That's fair. Um so you talked to me before we started this that your um so it would have been your great-grandfather, so the second generation, correct?
SPEAKER_00Was J.H. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01J. H. He has his own interesting chapter, yes? Is he the one that you said was the true like original like libertarian?
SPEAKER_00Well he he was very well known politically on a national basis. Um he we published partly because we were publishing books that were um what libertarianism was in the different version, yeah. Um but many of the concepts and the beliefs and freedom and um were the same. So he because we we were one of the only publishing houses, I I believe, and these things are always hard to um verify. We've always said we're the oldest independent publishing house west of the Rockies. So and he had an interest in political issues at a time when uh people weren't as um vested um it wasn't as easy to publish a book to get your points of view out there, and so he took on authors um uh with some of these viewpoints. So he became well known nationally on a political level because we were publishing books about topics that other people didn't want. I mean, I can fiat money inflation, things like that, which is libertarians out there would kind of know what I'm talking about. And I barely do. Um so then through that, he um he had a long I've in my office, and I sit in an office that he used to sit in.
SPEAKER_01Ah, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00Before it burnt down. But it's uh we've I have a signed um photo of Herbert Hoover signed to him. I've got a signed photo of Teddy Roosevelt signed to him. Um he helped Teddy Roosevelt when he ran again under the Bull Moose Party. Uh J.H. was very involved with him there. Uh as we were saying earlier, PBS did a um Idaho Public Television, Marsha Franklin and her team did an hour-long documentary on our company, but it was really focused on J.H. and how um his connections to publishing when we were one of the only ones, West of Iraqis doing it, and then his political connections throughout the country um grew up in this little place in Caldwell, Idaho. Um so it it's very interesting. It's again more proof of Gene Poole shallower than Gene Poole. Um he was he was a remarkable man. Traveled the world, was in World War I. Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, so all joking aside, because he does sound like an amazing human being. Um, I also think that you are living in an age where things are moving and changing in your industry very, very quickly.
SPEAKER_00I think all industries before. That's fair. That's fair.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and you are you're managing this. You're you're you're the the company's still solid, you're you're moving and changing into all of this. It's I think it's very admirable. And I'm and I'm curious about you being in this position right now. And I guess part of it is Callie Zamzo asking you from a pressure point of view, as because you and I are both in leading the leading generation. Um just put it bluntly, we don't want to screw it up. We don't want it to happen on our our dime, right?
SPEAKER_00Not on my watch.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. Um, but can you kind of help us uh give a feeling of that?
SPEAKER_00You know, my fa I've been fortunate enough. So it went from J um J H to J A E to J H to my grandfather who was Jay's Jr., okay, and then his brother Gordon, and then my father David took over. And so I've been able to work with my dad my whole career and my brother. So my dad retired, um, and he retired like most people in family businesses do, which I'm sure he comes into office three days a week and says, it's all your decision now. But you know, I'm I'm retired, don't ask me. And then always has a suggestion for everything all the time.
SPEAKER_01I that that's music to my ears. It makes me feel not so uh on an island, but keep going.
SPEAKER_00And then my brother is our vice president. And he and I are 11 months apart.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00So it's been um handed down in that way. And then my brother's daughter, Megan, is working for us. She would represents the sixth generation.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00So yes, it it's difficult through these. You know, we're in a time that's um moving very quickly. We're in a legacy business, you know, that has changed dramatically. We've been told for years that print is dead. Well, it's not dead, it's just changing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so it's incumbent upon us to make changes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um my my role, um, my hope is that we can navigate through these things, um, maintain our what we've always held very dear to ourselves is our loyalty to our people and to our customers and to our community. We're very involved in our community.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um and that's the North Star is to be able to accomplish those things while we're still operating and changing and trying to keep up with the times. I will tell you it's not easy right now.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00We're going through a tough stretch right now with where things have changed. Some some markets have changed in a way that we're not certain we're going to be able to but we have other pieces. That's the advantage of being diverse, is we have some other pieces that I feel pretty good about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you just have to make adjustments. And, you know, when when Marsha Franklin was doing the PBS special, and this was not in the special, but she and I were off camera and and this was all being filmed during COVID. So when like I was up at Washington State University with a scholar that had researched our company and my great grandfather and um and you know everyone had masks on and it just it was difficult. And then she and I were talking off camera and she said to me so the same sort of question. So what's it like? You know what, you know, what's so difficult? And I said, well, you know, it we're we're going through a pandemic, you know, we we just had a recession, you know, technology's changing. It's tough. And she looked at me and she pointed out, which I always try to that your great grandfather and grandfather went through World War I, the Spanish flu, World War II, the Great Depression. Skip that one. Our company burnt to the ground in St. Patrick's Day 1937. Vietnam, everything that went so I guess I don't have it that bad.
SPEAKER_01So it's certainly different, right? The challenges are certainly different.
SPEAKER_00Every generation has their challenges.
SPEAKER_01Can we talk about the fire?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01What uh what happened?
SPEAKER_00What was the uh again someone was um smoking a cigarette in a paperwarehouse. This the train part is what's kind of funny. So there was a gentleman named George Stutzberry that worked for our family for three gen three generations, was our binary foreman. And the this is the railroad tie-in he answered a newspaper ad in Nebraska for a job working in a printing press he'd never heard printing company he'd never heard of in Caldwell, Idaho, jumped on a train, got off the train in downtown Caldwell, and Caldwell's all up in arms because our building is burning to the ground and he was that's where he was going to go to work.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00They handed him a bucket and said start throwing water. So that was on St. Patrick's Day St. Patrick's Day 1937. It burned to the ground.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00And within a year they were able to get a bunch bunch of the equipment out with horses and what they had with cars and trucks at the time and then had a lot of the presses and equipment up and running in employees' garages within a year.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00And then rebuilt within uh two years.
SPEAKER_01That that speaks volumes for just how the community kind of both the company and the communities kind of came together and said all right we're gonna we're gonna maintain this.
SPEAKER_00I mean I'm glad I wasn't around when that yeah no kidding right but we kept it going they kept it going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so our mill that sits in the heart of downtown Meridian is, you know, we we still marvel at the fact and I should probably knock on wood. Um but that's the flamm I don't know if you know flammability is the right word, but okay but it's very flammable because of of the grain dust. Apparently that just ignites very easily. And the fact that we went through many generations of heavy smokers who worked in the mill and and so there was I have there's a picture of my great grandfather in the mill with a cigarette in his hand.
SPEAKER_00We're just like how did we know all the old pictures and we ran a printing company that had solvents and paper everywhere and everyone has a cigarette in their mouth.
SPEAKER_01Wild isn't it that alone is a night and day difference to oh my gosh it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Well it's we there was a big um grain silo across the street from us and called well the Land of Lakes one oh yeah it burned down yeah while I was there that was in I don't know had me like 98, 99.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's crazy. Um can we talk about community a little bit? Sure because I heard you mention that and I know that I know I think I know the same feeling that I don't for our family when people say well what does the community mean to you and to us we're like they are us. We exist because of the community and we wonder sometimes if we would even be that successful if it wasn't this particular community that we were in. And so I wonder how what does community mean to Caxton?
SPEAKER_00I don't know it's we've as you indicated when we when Caldwell first started, we were Caxton was here shortly after Caldwell was founded, you know, and things like the College of Idaho you know we've had relationship it's community is about the relationships and about what you care about what was and what can be where you live for your employees, for your customers. There's selfishness involved in it the better the community does, the better we're going to do. Sure. But it sure feels good to be there helping and having some um some input in guiding the direction and sometimes that input is best utilized by saying nothing as I'm sure you know. Yes often what you don't say is sometimes more important than what you do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But we've all my my grandfather um very involved politically throughout the state my father less so but he was very involved in Caldwell um various you know business you know chamber of commerce things like that where you would advance the business community. I have been very involved in a lot of nonprofit efforts throughout the state and mostly in the Treasure Valley. I currently sit on six or seven boards. And I I enjoy it. I've met many of the best people I I've ever met in my life and then will ever get to meet in my life and there's selfishness to it. You one it makes me feel good. Two it's selfish because it makes a better place for my family, for my business and everything but you also make connections that end up working out from a business standpoint if you um do things right and commit to them. So I I friends of mine are and I do have friends or are asking why I ask why I do all a lot of the stuff that I do. And a lot of people in this community and you I'm sure there's the Treasure Valley's unbelievable with the amount of people that donate time and effort and money and knowledge and reputation to to further nonprofit causes. That's true. And it's not you know I there's a lot of people that do that. But they're getting a benefit out of it too. And that's what my friends asked me is like why do you do this like I like it one it's good for business too. Yeah and that's one thing that um on one of the nonprofit boards that I sit on we've had a conversation recently about um the you know you've heard um talks in the state about the enrollment cliff the University of Idaho and Boise State or demographics show we're going to have fewer people going right to college and we're starting to face that now. Well there's a philanthropy cliff coming to because um we have a generation of kids um and young people who are finding it more difficult to engage in the way that um previous generations did. And I'm I'm not saying they don't want to I just don't think we're doing a good enough job inviting them in and trying to give them an opportunity to have the same experiences we've had with regards to being involved in your community and furthering uh different enterprises that are good for the community writ large, not just for a particular person.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah it's interesting when you were talking about all that just the the feeling that I get oh and every time that I spend with other people getting to know other people, how much I benefit from that. And and just it lifts my spirits I learn things that I didn't know. You get perspectives you have um at least I do I I balance some of the things that if I'm just on my own and I can get whirled off into some just like anybody else on some tangent that I think I'm dead right on. And then I'll meet somebody with a perspective I'll be like, oh, I needed to hear that. Yes but you don't get it unless you're relating to another person.
SPEAKER_00So yeah that's that's a very good point you make it being involved with um organizations that are working together to move things forward requires for the most part personal interaction. Yes I think I'm going to the point that you were making I learned so much being with someone like we're doing here today um talking to them paying attention to what they say not trying to determine what emoji get a selfie and call it good. Exactly that's where the real magic happens in community. I mean this I'm bringing this back to the community question. That's where the real magic happens when you have the opportunity to be involved in a community that you've had longtime ties with for good or bad you're involved.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And that's where um this I we get a real a real sense that there's a cliff on in terms of the idea of the importance of philanthropic giving and I'm not talking just money.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00That we're coming up on that. And it's not the younger generation's fault. It's just the world's change around us and those of us who I was led to this by people that I respected.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00I don't think um our generation and what are I'm a what am I an ex I'm a Gen X, I think I don't know Zoomer whatever I don't pay any attention to that. I think it's Gen X. I don't know. Anyway um I don't think we've done a good job of providing um my kids um the opportunity to engage in that way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah that's interesting. I wonder if if you and I were to solve this problem right here, just right here and now would uh would would our suggestion be to our generation to the next time that we're going to be involved somehow in the community that we bring someone along. Yeah that we would that we invite somebody from yeah that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_00And explain I mean it's easily it's easy for me to say it as I'm engaged in things right and I'm trying I'm actively trying to be less engaged in some things. But I it just it's like the mafia they just keep pulling me back in. True. It would sure be nice to feel good about some of the organizations I belong belong to and there's some that I do feel very good about that we have the next group of leaders coming up that have been engaged for a a fair amount of time not just thrown in because their boss told them it's time. Trevor Burrus Right right I mean philanthropy is work.
SPEAKER_01Right it is it is but it's it doesn't feel the same as regular work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah but there's a right and wrong way to do the do it and you need to have you know I I'm fortunate enough to sit on the Treasure Valley YMCA board and to watch David Doreau and Jim Evert before that Jim left before um I was um lucky enough to be uh to join the board but to watch how Dave Dureau engages in the community and how he's so open to ideas, that's a you have to watch that in action to learn it. It doesn't it's not innate. Yeah um and that's where I think younger people coming up need to have mentors or the opportunity to view that done at a very high level before they before it really they get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if that makes sense. Trevor Burrus It does make sense and I'm just kind of I'm I'm constructing in my mind like a I shouldn't be name dropping you know Dave Doreau and those guys on your but that's where I mean he's a remarkable dude.
SPEAKER_01And I and I think a shout out is fantastic and and yes he's doing amazing work and and there's so many people that are just like that that are that are doing these things whole community is full of it is it is and I I so in thinking about younger people coming because here's the interesting thing about this rising generation in fairness we Gen Xers we're we might be better at the I'm just gonna throw myself in the middle of it and meet people um but I'm not sure we're as altruistic as this rising generation.
SPEAKER_00That's why I'm so if we could get the combo going, we'd have some serious that's why I think I I tried to say I don't think they're less altruistic. I just think there's we're not doing a good job of providing um opportunities to engage long term. Yes. Because I I I don't know what nonprofits you have engaged with. I know the family's done a lot. But many of the boards that I engage with um are populated primarily by people our age.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00100% yes which is kind of what I'm pointing at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah for sure. Yeah I think the one Idaho Business for education is one of the ones that I and and they there is definitely some some rising generations in that that I'm I'm really impressed with. So that's they've done a good job with that. But then it's education. So we're really targeting their generation a little bit more than our generation anyway. Involved with IBE for a member I think yeah wonderful wonderful group that's uh I'm very impressed with what they're doing and um okay so kind of along that same line but maybe we're I'm gonna I I'm gonna change mediums but I think there's kind of a similarity here books. Yeah actual books and reading a book opening a book smelling the pages I know I'm probably part of a small group of people that just loves the good smell of a book but I I love reading now I I'm full disclosure I also read my Kindle so I I have that have that handy as well um but but there's something about a physical book and my husband and I have a library now we're like we're like old people like maybe maybe at 51 I am an old person legit but um but this is like in my mind I'm thinking about what actual physical books mean and and and do we think that moving forward rising generations and and people will continue to have that feeling that they get when they have something tangible that they're reading. Does that make sense? Yes.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it has not gone away yeah I said print's been dead for 20 years. The book industry was going to be dead Amazon was going to kill it no just changes how many books are printed and how many can be produced because they can be produced more quickly. So now if you have a book and you want to do a family history about ZAMZOS and you come to us and we help you with it, we decide yeah it's a great thing we'll publish it back in the day to have a unit cost that made sense we had to print five to ten thousand of them. Now you don't have to do that. You can print so it's smaller numbers it's more inexpensive to produce books. I say it to authors all the time it's never been easier in the history of publishing to publish a book and it's never been more difficult to sell a book because everyone can do it because it's easy.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And Amazon gives everyone a platform and I'm not saying that's good. I'm not saying that's bad. But the the book publishing industry hasn't gone anywhere. Barnes Noble's coming back I mean they they went through um struggles small independent bookstores that have figured out how to do it are doing well. A lot of books are sold on my biggest customer is Amazon. We sell but we have niche market you know we're all uh the majority of our books are Native American we do a lot of regional history regional geography regional biography Native American history so our markets are very niche but within those markets we're well known and have a reputation if I do a book about the Nez Perse tribe and their history I know I'm gonna sell almost all of them and where they're gonna go. So those places don't aren't going away the the the retail shops aren't going away they're just different and they're um uh and maybe you know I have a library that's why I'm doing what I'm doing is I was never going to come back and work for the family but I love books and I used to write a little bit and then the light went on after grad school that um your family owns a publishing company. That's why I'm here um it hasn't gone away it's just changed yeah print hasn't gone away it's just changed what's on your desk yeah you're right it's a print book that's exactly right I I read Mike Kindle most of our books we convert to ebook which is easy and fast and inexpensive but you don't make money on them.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00It's just you hope that someone buys an ebook and then tells a friend and then they buy the printed one that you might make a little money on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah can we talk just really quickly I so I have a book in me. I've started it I don't know if it'll ever finish. However I'm I'm curious about the whole the process as far as where you come in um do people come to you with their ideas? At what point do they come to you and say can you help me publish this?
SPEAKER_00Depends. Okay. I mean it it's come it's take and I'm the publisher so I make those decisions um with help. It can take two or three different forms for us. We generally don't work with agents because we're on the smaller side and most of the agents aren't going to make enough money off of the books that we publish and sell to make it worth their while they're gonna try and place their authors with larger houses where they can get bigger advances and things will work. The majority of it is because we have a reputation people that are um historians um academics that have tried the larger markets and couldn't find a place for them and then they look at us and oh well we do the work in an arena that they want their book to fit to they send me a query letter or they just send me a full-on manuscript and then depending on how I react to that I respond one way or another. And then they'll come in and we'll have a conversation about what are your ideas, what does it look like? Really from start to finish it's manuscript evaluation. First it's query letter generally request the manuscript and usually just half the book or a third of the book manuscript evaluation decision on whether we want to publish it in a timeline and then it goes to editorial then it goes to design then it while that's going on we're trying to put together a marketing plan and then you go to production and then it comes out and you've got a book. Wow so that's the timeline on it that can be accelerated sometimes that's a six month process sometimes it's a year and a half so there have been times where I come up with an idea that I see something happening in the community and I think we should have our name on a book about it and I will go to an author that or a someone in the community that I know has connections to it or has the ability and I recruit them to write a book about this. Oh interesting huh the Simplot biography J.R. Simplot A Billion the Hard Way I think it's the only authorized gave it to my dad for Christmas. That one was us going to Louie Atterbury who was friends with J.R. and was a professor of um folklore at College of Idaho and who uh Mr. Simplot liked and respected it's us that was us going to Louie and say why don't you talk to JR and see it's time to have a biography written do you think he'd be willing to do it. And so we were able to get that accomplished a number of books like that. We've done a couple wine country books or the Idaho Wine Country Alan Minskkoff and Paul Hosefross had the idea I kind of I was more involved in the development of the project. Gotcha. There's been a couple others um like that where it originated from us um but most of them come to us more or less fully formed and then it's our job just to make it a better version of what came to us and figure out how best to create a book that will sell and more importantly for us last.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. Okay well you know I'm gonna have to ask this question. I gotta I gotta ask you about AI.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell What about it?
SPEAKER_01Where tell me I'm using it Yeah, yeah, I think most of us are in some way or shape or form.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm curious how you think it's going to shape like are we going to be reading books that I think for us where it's really going to change things, I can tell you a couple of examples where it's changed things. But I think um on our tech in our textbook markets. It technology has made a difference, a big difference. But I I haven't got a sense that it was, you know, up till now that it was really in jeopardy. I think AI may put uh our education, the um textbook markets in jeopardy.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00A digital textbook you're still reading.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. And as I'm sure you follow this through IBE and stuff, um the funding's down, but now print textbooks are coming back because every most of the studies are showing that retention's down. Sure. Teachers, parents know there's enough technology in a classroom.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But AI is, I fear, is going to have a more outsized impact in that market than did just taking this physical book and turning it into a digital reader that you could read on your iPad or kids don't have Kindles, they should have been a lot cheaper than the direction they went. Um that's what on that. From from our so I just that's me looking down the road. Um I use it um my correspondence is a lot easier than it used to be when I write rejection letters. It's a lot I'm gonna remember that. It's a lot easier. Um we designed, I used to hire, uh I I should be careful. I've designed had a couple book covers designed via AI where I used to hire an artist to do an idea on a book cover. Sure. Book layout's a lot easier now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It does help. Um interesting. Fact checking's a lot easier. We don't do for the most part on you know, we do books that are scholarly, some of them, you know. Rick Williams from Boyce, an adjunct professor at um Boyce State. We just did a book about salmon recovery called Managed Extinction, amazing book. Incredibly dense with not with scientific jargon, and um, I'm not doing it's a great read. But I don't I I'm not in a position to check facts on that book. Now you have an easy access to um an engine that can help you check whether things that you're putting in print are or aren't accurate, or whether there's a different version of it that may need to be considered. I don't know if that makes sense to you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's a it's a helpful tool for us. On the publishing side and printing side, it's helpful. Our our designers who are really, really good are utilizing it more. Um I don't I think that's unavoidable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um that's and I'm 59 years old. You know, if I if I can t take this up, what are these kids doing that are younger?
SPEAKER_01Right. I I definitely feel that. Yeah. I definitely feel that. Well, thank you for sharing us all with this information about your company and the history and and just and some insight into what you do and how you do it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. And this went really fast. I I it always does. You were you were worried about whether we could find anything to talk about. And then I saw it on your face. You were worried about could you shut me up and move on to the next one?
SPEAKER_01Not at all. I I love your stories. And man, you're you and your family have a history here. You're a very important part of this community. And and thank you. Thank you for probably the thousandth non-thank yous you get for all the things you do. Let us give you one here today, and thank you for for what you're doing for the community.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much. And the this community, writ large, has been incredibly good to our family and to our people and to our company, and so we appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Hey, thanks for watching. If you or someone you know has a story to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your story, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode. And remember, once your story gets shared, it will no longer be one that nobody knows.