Red Flags and Revival: Counseling a Reddit Story (Part 2)

What do discipline, biblical parenting, and Frasier all have in common? They're all on the table in this honest, heartfelt, and occasionally hilarious second episode of Red Flags and Revival.

This week, Jason and Nicole respond to a Reddit story about a mom who disciplines her son for laughing at a classmate being bullied—only to have her co-parent question whether she’s being too harsh. What unfolds is a deeper conversation about how grace, discipline, and unity shape the way we raise our kids.

Along the way, we talk about:

• *Why “I’m sorry, but…” isn’t a real apology
• How united parenting builds trust and prevents division
• What the story of Jacob and Esau can teach us about favoritism and fractured families
• Why grace doesn’t mean removing consequences—it means walking through them together

Plus, we finally answer the theological question you didn’t know you had: Do we like big BUTs? (Spoiler: Nope.)

Whether you're raising kids, were a kid once, or just love seeing biblical truth collide with messy reality, this episode is for you.

🎧 Pull up a chair—there’s room at the table.

Thanks for pulling up a chair at Table for Two. If you enjoyed today's conversation, we'd love for you to join us on Facebook! It is where we share behind-the-scenes updates, chat with listeners, and keep the conversation going throughout the week. We'd love to see you there.

Transcript

Ep10 Red Flags and Revival 2

Jason: [00:00:00] Sorry to interrupt your TikTok scrolling, but welcome back to Table for Two, where we serve up hot takes in Gracefield conversations, one awkward situation at a time. I'm Jason. 

Nicole: And I'm Nicole. And today we're back with part two of our red flags and revival mini miniseries. 

Jason: That's right. We're diving into another Reddit relationship post, and this time it's all about parenting consequences and the ever debatable question, should I pay for my teenager's mistake?

Or let them learn the hard way. 

Theme: Hmm. 

Jason: This is table for two, table for two 

Theme: for storms and swallowed on Noise. Church, Jesus and hand copy and mugs are lights held together by grace. And a few hugs they said she submits. We set. We both do. It's not about ladders since serving the Kingdom one and genes lock lines and cows hands and all routine at this.

There's room for [00:01:00] you. Pull up. Butcher will tell the truth from love and faith with the side.

Nicole: So before we get into the nitty gritty of this, I have a very important question to ask you. 

Jason: Is it what I want? What do I want for dinner? 

Nicole: No, because we both know. Neither one of us knows that, but no. What's one time you got in trouble behind the wheel when you were a teen? Just one. Just one time. 

Jason: Just one time when I got in trouble.

Nicole: Yeah. Not the million times. 

Jason: I was an angel. I was a saint as a teenager. 

Nicole: Right. I never 

Jason: did anything wrong. I obeyed all the traffic laws, but Okay. I, I actually have two stories that are kind of funny. Go ahead. If I could share 'em both. So the first one is, my first car was a 1986 Chevy Astro van. Right. I dunno if you know what those look like or not.

Yeah. But it's, it's like a big giant box with seats in it. And I, [00:02:00] but I love that thing 'cause I could take the seats out and go fishing everyone. Which way. But anyway, so I had to be at school, at our school started at seven 20 and it was on the other side of town, and so I would drive myself and my sister to school, drop my sister off in the middle school.

Then my brother and I would go on to high school. So we successfully dropped my sister off. But as we were crossing like from this like empty back street, we head across Ohio Street, which is a very busy street in Martinsville. 

Nicole: Especially during that time of day. 

Jason: Yeah. To then to get to the high school, which was well on down the avenue.

Mm-hmm. Well, again, I'm a young driver and I look both ways, but I don't look both ways. Very well 

Nicole: typical. 

Jason: And I smoke the front end of a Ford truck on its way to work. 

Nicole: I've never heard the story before. You haven't heard the story 

Jason: before? Oh, this is a really embarrassing one, and if you ask my brother Travis about it, he will tell it in much better detail.

But I smoked the front of this Ford truck. When I say it's a Ford truck though, it's like one of the old [00:03:00] 1980s built out of like some type of steel that doesn't even barely crumple when you hit it. Oh, 

Nicole: yeah, I know. 

Jason: Uh, so I didn't hurt it, but the, the, the driver wasn't wearing his seatbelt, so he like busted his arm up.

Really good. And I did flatten his tire so he couldn't drive his truck to work that day. Um, you know, my, the front of my van was a mess. I mean, I had to put duct tape on the headlight later that day just to make it functional again. But the part that makes Travis laugh the most was the guy was just said, I don't, I, I mean, I'm gonna be late for work.

I don't have a ride. So I did the natural thing and trying to be a good Samaritan and offered to give him a ride to work. And for whatever reason, he didn't accept my offer to give him a ride. 

Nicole: At that point, I wasn't right with you either. Yeah, that's, 

Jason: that's the point. The part Travis remembers the most. I then, again, I wasn't so much, I got in trouble for that.

It was just, I made a mess out of my day outta that guy's day. They had to call my mom, get her outta bed to come and sign off because I was a minor. Um, so that was, that was my excitement for that day. And then my other story, this was, I can't [00:04:00] remember if I was still in high school or just outta high school.

But by this point I had replaced the astro van with a Ford Ranger pickup truck. Uh, it was a two door teal in collar, had a red truck cap on it, although I don't think it had the truck cap on it at this point. No, I did. I did have the truck cap on it. Okay. But anyway, I know, and now I say two doors. It was two wheel drive, four cylinder, but it wasn't automatic.

And so it was me again, my brother Travis. He's cha, whenever Travis and I are together, uh, some bad things happen. Bad things happen. I wouldn't trust us together. And then our, our, one of our other friends was with us too. And so we're driving down this back road somewhere out in, well, we, the locals in Martinsville called the Forest Street, right?

And there's this little gravel road and we're taking it. And I've been down a thousand times, but as I'm driving it this time, I see a mud puddle. Off the side of the road. When I say a mud puddle, it was like, it was like one of those mud puddles that looks like a small fishing pond off the side of the [00:05:00] road, but it wasn't like a pond, it was a puddle.

And I get this idea of like, you know what? I bet you I could drive through that. 

Nicole: You gave into your intrusive thoughts. Yeah. It's like, I 

Jason: bet I could drive through this. No problem. Now I'm in a pickup truck. What could go wrong? It's two wheel drive. So I put the pedal to the floor. Right. I put the pedal on the floor, which is always dangerous to do when you're any type in any type of Ford.

'cause you never know what's gonna happen to the Ford. And I drive through, I get into the puddle, and immediately the back end of the truck starts sliding. And so I, I lose all momentum I have going into it, and then it just stops. And when I say it's, I mean when it stops, it is, it is in the middle of this puddle like it.

I'm literally, my truck is literally an island and I get out and the water is up to the bottom of the doors. 

Nicole: So it's not a puddle, 

Jason: it's a mudhole and it, I have all four wheels buried and we do everything we can do. Like I have my brother and my friend stand on the back like [00:06:00] jumping and trying to get me some type of traction, get out.

Like I had this plan, I was gonna steer into the trees and then try and use that to get back out. None of it worked. Like we even started pulling stuff out of the back of the truck, sticking it under the wheels, trying. And I remember our buddy had this neon green M1 Nazarene hoodie, and we even tried to use that and we completely ruined his hoodie.

Hoodie. And so I did, the only thing I could do is I, I called my next door neighbor, Paul Burpo, uh, he's the dad of my, one of my best friends. And I just said, Hey, can you come, can you come help us? And he and he knew exactly where we were. He drove out there and Paul's like in his fifties, you know, at this point.

And he gets out there and all he does is start laughing at us. Like he's in his big, you know, Chevy suburban four wheel drive, all that stuff. And he just laughs You get, and, and he gets out his toe cables and he's just laughing. 

Nicole: Yeah, I'd be laughing. He laughs 

Jason: as we're crawling through the mud to hook it up.

He's laughing as he gets back in and, and pulling me [00:07:00] out. Uh, I think every time he saw me for the next week he laughed because it was, it was funny. It was quite the pickle I got myself into. So that, those are my two stories. 

Nicole: Hmm. 

Jason: But 

Nicole: yeah, I don't really have any fun stories of when I got in trouble behind the wheel because I didn't drive, like I was not a licensed driver until I was past the age of 18.

I wasn't allowed to get my license. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: But I rode with my friend Anna quite a bit to and from youth group. And Anna was a bit of a daredevil with her car. She had a 1972 Toyota Corolla,

and it was the epitome of a clown car because we, we would drive it everywhere, but like. She always had way too many people in the car. There was one time where we [00:08:00] fit 15 teens in that thing. 

Jason: It was like a clown car. 

Nicole: Exactly. I just said that you're not listening again. 

Jason: What? That's a funny way to start a conversation.

Nicole: Anyways. Anyways, so, um, we were the time where she had like 15 people in that car. I was like. Buried in the backseat underneath a bunch of other teens. We were trying to get to the local lake and all of a sudden she's, she sees that there's a police officer that just drove past, headed the opposite direction, and he flips a ey real fast.

Theme: Oh no, 

Nicole: he doesn't turn his lights on or anything, so she starts weaving down the different residential streets in Florence, Oregon. And the police officer's right behind us. And finally we get enough ahead of the police officer that we just, that [00:09:00] she's, she puts it in park, we all bail out of the car and then she drives away and we're all hiding in the bushes.

That's the police car drives past.

And needless to say, she didn't get pulled over or fined or anything because by the time he caught up to her, it was just her and her brother and a couple of other people in the backseat. Like nothing. No big deal. But yeah, we almost got vested for that one. That's probably the most daring. 

Jason: Knew a bunch of rebels.

Nicole: Yep. 

Jason: How, how many, how? How'd you guys do a cruising in a town that has one road? 

Nicole: That was Florence. Oh, Florence. Not Mapleton. Napleton's. Podunk, yes. But Florence is a little bit, it's a, it's bigger than Ravenna and Irvin. 

Jason: Alright, now that we had our fun, as they say in, wait, I don't remember what movie it was.

Let's get down to Business. Mulan. That's the movie. Let's get down to business. 

Nicole: Business to [00:10:00] defeat. Alright, 

Jason: so the story I, I picked. It was the, it's the story of, um, a girl who gets in trouble with her mom for not paying her parking fines. 

Nicole: Yeah. And I'm sorry, but we're not doing that one. 

Jason: You're changing the plan on me.

Nicole: Yeah, I am. Because the link you gave me was a link to an article about the Reddit post, not the actual Reddit post. And when I went to go search the Reddit post. It had been deleted, so 

Jason: no snap. 

Nicole: I found something else and we're gonna go with that. But it still applies. It's still parenting, it's still all that.

Um, but the actual Reddit post today is, am I the bad parent for not defending my son when I feel like he was in the wrong? 

Jason: Oh, snap. Yeah, and, and so because I don't have [00:11:00] this anywhere in my notes, I have to actually pay attention to what you're saying. Yeah, 

Nicole: yeah, you do. 

Jason: I'll stay glued. 

Nicole: So this post comes from caring for others X, and it's on Reddit, and it says, three days ago, my son was in a group.

A group chat with multiple children from his school when one of his male friends set upon a female child, the male child called her fat, said she was the elephant in the room, and told her that no one liked her. My son laughed at what his friend had said to the girl. While I can only imagine what she was feeling in that.

My son's school became aware of what had happened and punished all involved with the, with two days of isolation or suspension, which I agree was the correct thing to do. My son's father says that his son should not have been punished as he only laughs. Is he right? Am I the jerk? Am I the [00:12:00] bad parent? Is 

Jason: that all of it?

Nicole: That's all before the update or the edit. Okay. So what's your initial thoughts on that? Do you think it's fair that he be punished? 

Jason: Yeah, I absolutely do think so. I think so. I mean, yes, he only laughed, but his laugh was at the expense of the little girl. Mm-hmm. And we don't know why the little girl was struggling with, I mean, she's a little girl.

Well, 

Nicole: and how do we even know that she actually was? 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: I mean. I have a very strict policy with my students and even my own children that you do not call anyone fat, but. Ben, especially, like I've told him multiple times, never call it curl fat. Mm-hmm. And he is like, well, I call myself fat all the time.

And it's like, yeah, well don't do that either because you never know what, what kind of mental, um, buildup that'll be. 

Jason: Yeah. I mean, I feel like we're [00:13:00] missing something. I mean, just because like why is dad so adamant that the son was not son should be punished. Like, to me that doesn't make sense. 

Nicole: Well, unfortunately there's no detail for that, but I think it's just the fact, while he wasn't the one who said it, and therefore should he be punished for it.

But I don't know. I kind of feel like laughter gives permission. Yeah. And not only gives permission, but it affirms that it's, it's funny and you should keep this up. It it, yeah. I don't know. It's just, it breeds encouragement. Does 

Jason: it tell us how old the, the, the boy was or his friend? No, 

Nicole: it does not. 

Jason: All right.

Well, I mean, our kids have to learn that one when they're, whether they're in the home or outside the home, there are consequences to actions. Mm-hmm. You know, and unfortunately when it happens on school property, [00:14:00] and we've dealt with this even some in our church kids group, right. When, when stuff happens.

In an environment like that, we as leaders at the, in the, in the church over our kids group and the school leaders, they have to take some type of action. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, it becomes an unsafe environment for the kid that's the victim. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Um, so I, I completely understand why the school would put him in isolation for two days.

Yeah. Yes. He didn't, he didn't say anything. He just laughed. But again, his laughter. I mean you, I'm sure that absolutely crushed the girl involved in this story. Oh, 

Nicole: yeah, yeah. When nobody's coming to your defense and you're being picked on like that, that's devastating. And, and on honestly, the fact that the school became aware of it was indication enough that she was hurt by it.

Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the fact, and here's the thing that where I agree with the school too. It wasn't like they were suspended from school. It wasn't a, they weren't kicked out. They were put in isolation. Which, where I [00:15:00] grew up, that meant we had in-school suspension. Yeah. So you, you were still at school, you were still getting your homework, getting those things done.

It's just you were off in a place kind of isolated, uh, with other kids that were in, in-school suspension, but even then you were separated in that group. Yeah. I've, I was only in, in-school suspension twice, so 

Nicole: Oh. I only had fun. Yeah. 

Jason: So I, I kind of know a little bit of what it was like, but it's a good pause and a time to reflect.

On what you did. Yeah. And it, and so, 

Nicole: so there's a little bit of an update and or an, an edit I should say. And she says, my son is under punishment at home. He has been grounded and lost all of his devices for the foreseeable future. I've spoken with him about why it was wrong to do what he did, and I've.

Uh, as I've been the girl in this situation in my childhood, so I understand exactly how she must be feeling right now, and I will not [00:16:00] have my child be the one to make another person feel that way. He has apologized to the girl and her parents at at a school meeting today. The instigator, however, has been given a three day suspension from school.

I don't hold any hope that his parents are punishing him at home though. All I know is that my son was in the wrong, and I will not let him treat another person in the, in that way, ever, male or female, regardless of the views his father has on the situation. 

Jason: So that tells me the father still hasn't come around, no to the same side, but now he's letting his wife carry out.

Some type of punishment. So I will commend him on that aspect of it. You know, but where, but at the same time too, it's already, it's sending mixed signals in their parenting. Yeah. Well, and one thing 

Nicole: I wanna point out is that she doesn't say that they're sp that they're together. Yeah, they're co-parenting and some aspect, but yeah, it does send mixed signals.

So whether or not they're together, living together and [00:17:00] parenting together, or. Separated and parenting together, there's division Yeah. In how they're parenting. And 

Jason: I would argue if, if they were separated not together anymore, that makes being on the same page parenting wise even more important. Yeah. Now I understand if you're listening to this and you're divorced from your spouse, there's a reason y'all got divorced.

Right. And, and there's probably still a lot of difficult feelings in there, but for the sake of your kids. You have to lay, lay, it's so important to, you have to lay them aside and, and at least work together for the kids' benefit. Yeah. Now maybe you're the parent and you're willing to do that, but the other side isn't.

Now I, again, I don't have, this is not the episode for me to get into that advice with you. I'm not saying you should just cave into them because they're not agreeing with what you want to go with. Uh, so understand as we're talking about this, we're focusing really in on this one. Situation here. Yeah. And again, the reason I think the mixed signal thing's really important to the kids are already getting mixed [00:18:00] signals from his friend's parents.

Yeah. Because his friend is the one that actually said it. Yeah. And yes, the friend got three days of outta school suspension, but he's not getting punished at home. Like No. 

Nicole: Well, as, as far as, as far as we know. Yeah. But on top, like I, I have to commend mom here because although she's not feeling the support of her co-parent.

She's doing what she knows is right. As somebody who's been on the receiving end of bullying and knowing how much, even just the laughter at the bullying can, can affect a child. Um, I love the fact that she addressed it. Addressed why her son was being punished both in school and outta school because. Uh, a lot of times that's something that parents fail to do.

Um, it's something that I experienced growing up where I'd get in trouble and I had no idea why. [00:19:00] Um, or it would be this like inconsistent thing where I might get in trouble, um, or I, I might get away with it one time or even like multiple times that then all of a sudden. Boom goes the dynamite, and I'm busted.

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: Like in serious trouble. And I had no idea that what I was doing was upsetting in any way. So the fact that mom took the time to sit her son down and be like, this is why we're not doing this behavior. This is why you're being punished for what you like, the way you're being punished, and, and the crime fit the punishment, she took away his electronics because that was the means that he was using.

To be a part of that kind of bullying. 

Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this is gonna sound kind of harsh, but we are in, as a nation, are dealing with a lot, a high spiking rate of teens committing suicide. Yeah. Kids committing suicide. And a lot of that is due to cyber bullying. Mm-hmm. And the schools can do their part to slow it [00:20:00] down and put a stop to it.

But, but 

Nicole: again, there's, if there's no reinforcement at home, 

Jason: yeah. Yeah. Then. Then it's all for naught. Exactly. It's still gonna keep, keep going. Uh, so it, it's up to the, it's up to the parents, us as parents, to enforce those boundaries mm-hmm. To enfor enforce those things. Um, now again, the, the, the, the, the, as parents, you're not always gonna agree a hundred percent on what a punishment should be.

Not always, not all the time. Yeah. Um, now the way Nicole and I handle it is if I'm, if. Like, sometimes there are times where, where something happens between our kids and a decision has to be made and the punishment has to be leveled and we don't really have a chance to talk about it yet. And so we, what we do in those moments is we just yield to the other one's wisdom.

Nicole: The one who issued the, the discipline. 

Jason: Yeah. And we stand behind them. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: We might, even if we disagree, [00:21:00] uh, behind the scenes, we're not gonna voice that in front of the kids. Yeah. Because. That doesn't help the situation. That always, that only makes it worse. And it pre and it, and it kinda gives the kid the impression that, you know, if I go talk to dad, he doesn't think this was that bad, so maybe he can help me get out of this and get skirt the consequences.

Yeah. But that, that, that's not the reality of how situations work once they get older. Right. It's, it's going to, uh, so we're, we're setting 'em up for failure, but, you know, disagreements are nor are normal. But we have to be united in our messaging and that builds trust and consistency. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Uh, so whatever happens when we, when you leave that discussion with your spouse, the decision is our decision.

It's not, uh, this was your mom's decision or That's my, it's, 

Nicole: yeah. 

Jason: This was our decision together. 

Nicole: Yeah. And I will say this, she never mentions that her co-parent is voicing that disapproval in front of the kid. [00:22:00] Yeah, and she's saying like, regardless of what he feels on this, you know, I, I know what I'm gonna raise my son to, to do and, and how to, they're gonna behave.

But she never mention, like, she never says that, you know, he's trying to undermine her. And so I do, I, I feel like if the, there was some undermining going on, she probably would've said that. So I feel like even with the disagreement, I am hoping I'm believing the best here, but I'm, I'm hoping that he is.

At least on the surface supporting her. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: Um, or at least just keeping quiet of his disagreement. 

Jason: Yeah. And there's, there's actually a good biblical example of this. Um, what happens when parents are divided by the kids? And that's, it's a story of, of Jacob and Ol Oh, yes. A hundred percent right. Isaac favors.

Esau because Esau's a good hunter and, and good at fixing. He's super manly. Yeah, he's super manly. And, uh, and he's even got a red, hairy cape that's natural to his body, like Superman. Um, [00:23:00] and then, and then there's, you know, is it, it's Rebecca. Yeah. Rachel's with Jacob. It's Rebecca. 

Nicole: Is like super, it favors Jacob.

Jason: And so Jacob's kind of the mama's boy. 

Nicole: Oh, 100%. He's always inside helping his mom what the kitchen is. 

Jason: And so the parents, they, they are split in their parenting toward these kids, right? Dad favors esol, mom, fa favors Jacob. And because they never address that, 

Nicole: there's this constant battle between the two boys.

Jason: Yeah. And that really comes to our, a giant crescendo. You know, when it comes time for the birthright and 

Nicole: the blessing. 

Jason: And the blessing. Yeah. And Jacob steals it tricks Isaac with Rebecca's help by the way. And Rebecca, Rebecca's the one that tells Jacob to run away. Yeah. And help set it up so he can. Yeah.

And so that completely splits the family. Right. The family kind of dissolves, but why? Because the parents are divided in their approach to the kids. 

Nicole: Yeah. [00:24:00] 

Jason: Uh, now there's only one kid in this scenario we're reading about. But again, it's, it's, it's gonna create a rift. 

Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: That, that's a threat. Uh, any rift, right?

When the two become one, what's, what's what Jesus tell us, um, what God has joined together. Don't let man separate 

Nicole: That includes your kid. 

Jason: Yeah. Don't let your kids separate you. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Um, 

Nicole: and, and honestly, like there should never be a time where you are separated in that, because if both parents are wanting to.

To raise their kid with integrity and, and honesty and compassion, then it should be a united front. You guys might differ in how that comes, comes to play, but it would never. When it comes down to it, you guys could talk out, well, this is why I felt this punishment necessary, or this is why I felt like maybe a little bit more grace is extended in this situation.

[00:25:00] And, and at the very least, you guys would see each other's heart and be like, oh, okay, well I can join you on that. Yeah. Um, I might not agree with the methodology, but I can agree with the end goal here. Yeah. And, and if you can agree on the angle. I think you're pretty good. Yeah. That's how we've been. 

Jason: Yeah.

Now you might be thinking to yourself, well, we don't wanna make the kid wait to hear the consequences or come down with their decision, but there's a great episode of Frazier, I think that really plays into this discussion a little bit. There's an episode where if you've watched Frazier, you know that that Frazier and Lilith who are divorced, living on opposite Coast Coast.

Have a son named Freddy, and Freddy is wanting a dirt bike in this episode, and he's trying, he's begging Lith, who he lives with most of the time, see, seeing Frazier on occasion, and he's playing her well. He sets up this, Freddy, set this, this whole scenario where both parents think the other one's into them.

Again, 

Nicole: he's trying to convince [00:26:00] his parents that he wants them back together so that way when they don't get back together, he, they, they appease him with. His mini bike. 

Jason: Yes. 

Nicole: And, and he, they figure it out. 'cause again, they're psychologists. They know what, they know the tricks and all that. Um, and they catch him telling his friend exactly like that they were, that they were right in their assessment.

That he was just trying to manipulate them. And all, all Lily says is Freddy. And he is like Uhoh. And he hangs up the phone that he is talking to his friend on. And, um. And Frazier and Lilith are like, you know, we, we need to go punish him. Like Lilith is saying that, and then Frazier's like, yeah, just like he, he's probably feeling tortured right now.

And she's like, yeah. And they're like, you wanna get some wine? Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. So that little bit of [00:27:00] suspense sometimes. That's good. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: And, and think about it, when we were con, when we gave. Gave our hearts to Christ. In that moment where the Holy Spirit convicted us of our sin, we felt all the weight and the guilt of our shame in that moment.

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: It weighed on us. Now, some of us, we might have responded as that message was delivered and went straight to the author. Some of us, we may have walked around carrying that guilt and shame for a little while, but at some point that guilt and shame, we, we could felt, feel it like it was nagging at us.

It was all consuming, crushing. But it's that that conviction is what led to the moment where we ask God for forgiveness. 

Nicole: Yeah. But I will point out that in the episode of Frazier, as well as what you're saying, where we're feeling convicted, we know what we did wrong. 

Jason: Yes. 

Nicole: We know that God knows, Freddie knew that his parents knew what he did was wrong [00:28:00] and that, and he knew it was wrong.

But it's so important that when we are it, when we are handing out discipline that our children know why they're getting disciplined. Because otherwise it's little more than abuse. 

Jason: No. Yeah, absolutely. And, 

Nicole: and so communication is key in any element of a relationship, including parental. So, okay, this is what you did, this is the punishment that matches up with it.

If, if you're using your phone as a means of bullying. I'm taking your phone away because you're not getting that means to bully anymore. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: If, um, the, the story that you were wanting to share, um, was about a young lady whose tar car got towed and so mom withheld the keys. Um. Because guess what? You had a, you, you did something wrong.

You lost a pro. [00:29:00] Um, you used your, your vehicle for something that wasn't right, and now I'm withholding it. Yeah. Um, it, it's a, the crime has, or the punishment has to fit the crime, but also you have to communicate with your child. 

Jason: Yes. Absolutely. 

Nicole: And that's kind of what the Holy Spirit does when we are feeling convicted.

The Holy Spirit is telling us what we did wrong. 

Jason: Yeah, exactly. 

Nicole: And, and 

Jason: I've said this in a sermon before and this is, this is really important.

God's goal. We should be the same with our goal as parents. God's goal isn't necessarily to make us feel guilt and shame. 

Nicole: No. 

Jason: God's goal is for us to accept his gift of salvation. You know, he is, God's goal is for us to repent, right? And repentance is a change of mind, a change of direction. It's confessing our sin, knowing that it was wrong like you were talking about, and then turning away from that life and going another direction.

But because we [00:30:00] know, we knew that we sinned, we felt the pressure of that. Again, it wasn't because God wanted us to, it was our sin in us. Knowing that fact, knowing who we were, that's what led us to the moment where. We knew we had to confess. Yeah. And that's, that's important to remember as parents too, is it's not necessarily that we want our children to feel guilt and shame.

We love our kids. We don't want them to feel pain, but they're gonna feel it. 

Nicole: Yeah. And so actually that brings another thought to mind. The dad in this scenario, the one that doesn't want his son to be punished because he laughed. I want, I, I'd be curious if he thought that laughing at somebody else's pain was something that was okay, because it's not so much that the boy was really a terrible child because he laughed when somebody, one of his friends made a joke.

He [00:31:00] probably wasn't even thinking that it was hurting this little girl's feelings. But the question isn't, were you trying to hurt the little girl's feelings? It's you, did you, did you hurt the little girl's feelings? The answer is yes. Is that okay? No, it's not. So the goal. Is not necessarily to make him feel guilt and shame, which is exact, like the mom is pointing that out.

The goal is so he doesn't hurt somebody else again. 

Jason: Yeah. That he learns from it and he grows 

Nicole: and he knows that okay, maybe this is not the appropriate response when somebody is making fun of another person. Yeah. Um, yeah. It might be my friend and I, and he might be funny most of the time, but in this case it's not funny because he's hurting someone else and that's not funny.

And, and so the mom, I, I wanna encourage her in this moment. You're not in the wrong here. You're not a bad parent for making sure that your son knows what he did [00:32:00] wrong, because it wasn't that, again, he wasn't malicious, he wasn't trying to hurt this little girl. He thought something was funny. But there are certain jokes that are not okay to laugh at because they hurt someone else and, and if they hurt someone else, they're not jokes.

Jason: Yeah. They're. Yeah. Cruelty. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Um, yeah, and, and that's the thing I liked that the mom did here was not only did she have consequences, you know, the school had consequences and mom backed up the school's consequences. Yeah. She, he had consequences at home, but it didn't, it didn't stop at the consequence.

Yes. The next, the next thing he had to do was he had to go back to that school 

Nicole: and and apologize to the little girl and little 

Jason: girl, which that's just as important. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: When we hurt somebody else, 

Nicole: say 

Jason: sorry, say yes. 

Nicole: Don't argue the saying, I didn't mean to hurt you. It doesn't matter what your intentions were.

If you hurt someone, you hurt them. 

Jason: Yeah. A good lesson that I've learned is if, if I start off an apology by saying, I'm sorry, but, but, right. Yeah. Whatever follows that, but. Is the [00:33:00] reason why I am not really sorry, 

Nicole: pretty much any statement like that. I love you, but mm-hmm. It's gonna be a hateful statement following I'm, I'm not racist, but it's gonna be a racist statement following.

I I'm not, I'm sorry 

Jason: the church hurt you, but 

Nicole: it's gonna be a church hurt. Like 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: I'm, I'm gonna hurt you following that. Yeah. Um, so if you're having to start a statement with, but. Uh, just shut up. Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. The best thing you can simply do if you don't have any other words, just say, I'm sorry. 

Nicole: Yeah.

There should never be a, but. There should never be a but after. I'm sorry. There should never be a but after. I love you. There should never be a but following a, a statement that is enough of a statement. 

Jason: Yes. Right. We don't like big butts because they cover our place. 

Nicole: They do

Jason: You heard that quote here on the two, the table for two podcasts 

Nicole: that is going on our Facebook [00:34:00] page. Yes. 

Jason: Uh, and that's the other goal, like we've been talking about this quite a bit in this scenario, is the, the goal is to help our kids, what, what's the bible of scripture say? Train up a child in the way they should go 

Nicole: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Yeah. 

Jason: Now again, that's, that's, that's wisdom parents. Just because your kid departs from it later does not mean your parenting was bad. Our kids make their own choices and decisions. Um, but we, but I 

Nicole: will say that if you tell, like if you're explaining to them why they're getting punished, if you're explaining them why they're learning these lessons, if you're explaining to them the different, less, like the different thing elements of your parenting and why you're doing them, they're gonna be less likely to rebel.

Against those techniques at the very least. Yeah. Or maybe they might be like, okay, I don't like that style of parenting, but at least I understand. Understand that my parents loved me. Yes. Yeah. Um, 

Jason: grace and [00:35:00] discipline can coexist. 

Theme: Yes. 

Jason: Like they're, they're not, they're not opposing terms. Right. We, we, we, we like to think that they are.

Uh, but they're not love. What's what's best? God's love is both grace and truth. God's love is both rooted in truth and and justice, but also compassion. 

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: Right? It's not one of those things with the exclusion of the other. It's always all three, and that's how we were made in the image of God. And so we, we are, we are to reflect that.

Not only to the world, but, but especially to our own children. 

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: And so, so when our kid does mess up, like this kid bullied this one girl, 

Nicole: however unintentionally it was. Yeah. It was, 

Jason: um, the, the, yes, we need to make them aware of what they did. [00:36:00] Yes. We need to have consequences for what they did. At the same time too, we need to remind our kids that we love them.

Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: We love them. And in middle moments like this, well, this is, I mean, it. I shouldn't make light of this. It's, it's not a little moment, it's a big deal. But in moments like this, if we let our kids know that we love them in that moment, when, if they, if they go on and they make a bigger mistake later, 

Nicole: they're gonna know that they can approach mom and dad 

Jason: and they're still gonna, and that you'll love them.

Yeah. 

Nicole: And, and actually as a, as a parent as well, like. You know, I'll, I'll lay into my kids sometimes, like I'll, I'll scold them because, you know, their rooms are messy or they're fighting or whatever. And, but I will say this, when even like right afterwards, they always, it, it never fails. They will always come up to me, like right after I'm done scolding them and they'll be like, can I get a hug?

And I'm just like, absolutely. [00:37:00] Because my love for them doesn't stop when I'm angry. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: And, and in reality, I don't, I try my, I try not to punish them when I'm angry because that's just never a good idea. Um, but if I've had to, you know, if I've had to get on their case because they've been fighting or, or doing something stupid, I, you know, I, I do, I do scold them and I, you know, they do get punished and, and they have their consequences, but.

When they need the assurance that mom still loves them, I, I do not withhold that assurance. 

Jason: Right. 

Nicole: Because they need it. 

Jason: Yeah. Grace isn't about removing the consequences. It's about walking with someone through it, and that's, that's exactly what Jesus does for us. Mm-hmm. You might, you might give your life to Christ and still find yourself sitting in a jail cell.

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: You might give your life to Christ, but still find that your marriage is in shambles [00:38:00] because of, um, the unfaithfulness or you know, that that occurred. Those consequences are real, and, and God can forgive you for them, but you're still gonna, he's, he's not going to magically make those consequences go away.

What he's gonna do is he's gonna walk with you through 'em again. Another good example is if you read in the, uh, the story of Moses, right? Moses, God tells him to speak to the rock and water will gush out to give the grumbling Israelites something to drink, 

Nicole: and instead he smacks it. Let's be honest, 

Jason: if you're, we all have been there as parents.

Your kid's sitting there nagging you, nagging you nagging, daddy, I want a drink, daddy, I want a drink. You get mad. And you're like, gimme that cup. And then you, that's kind of what Moses did. He smacked the rock with the staff and it, it's the same thing happened. The water came out, the people got their drink, but it wasn't what God wanted.

And so God punished Moses, right? And Moses' punishment is kind of severe. He says, Moses, you don't get enter the promised land. [00:39:00] Now, did God abandon Moses in that moment? No. No. They still had a ways to go. God walked with him. And God, God does the same for each of us, and we should do the, and that's what we need to do with our kids.

Um, now there are gonna be times though, where we're gonna set down boundaries. We're gonna have consequences. They're gonna make, have to make apologies and our kids aren't gonna be happy about it. Ben, Ben was that way to today with me this evening. Right? He, he and his sister got into the kerfuffle.

Trying to clean up their rooms, which are on opposite side of the house. So I don't know how they ended up in a kerfuffle, but they did. And Emmy came to me crying, saying Ben pushed me again. Of course I wasn't in the room, so I don't, I didn't see the entire events unfold, but Ben didn't like that he had a stand there and listen to me lecture him.

He wanted to storm off and pout in his room, but I made him stand there anyway. [00:40:00] He didn't like me in that moment. 

Theme: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Sometimes being a good parent means temporarily you're gonna be unpopular. Yeah. 

Nicole: Yep. And that's okay. Yeah. You don't have to be the cool parent to be a good parent. 

Jason: Yeah. And don't try to, they're gonna be managing Our kids are people too. They, they're gonna have feelings, they're gonna have emotions. And so as parents, we can't become defensive.

We can't become angry and try and force them to get over it. What we need to do is provide them the same constant love and and presence as we just did as we were laying down the wall. 

Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.

Parenting is not easy. 

Jason: No, 

Nicole: no. It's not a joke. 

Jason: Yes. But we keep coming back to this grace. [00:41:00] Unity and growth. They're the heart of gospel shaped parenting. Mm-hmm. They're, well, thanks for pulling up a chair with us today. If you're raising kids or you were a kid once, you've probably faced a moment like this, and we hope today's conversation helped you feel seen and supported.

Nicole: And if this episode made you think, laugh or roll your eye, roll your eyes lovingly at your child or a teen. Share it with someone who needs it and, you know, please leave us a review, um, just so we can help more people join us at the table. 

Jason: Yeah. And, and help us share the podcast episodes. And, and by all means, we love your comments on our Facebook posts, uh, and things like that.

Those are, those are encouraging to us. Mm-hmm. And it's fun. We love interacting with people. Uh, and we'd 

Nicole: love to hear your stories, share your [00:42:00] stories about parenting kerfuffles like this. And, hey, 

Jason: maybe you have a, a crazy teen driving story where you got in trouble that were worse than mine. Please feel free to put those in the comments.

Um, and maybe you can even talk about how you learned about Big butt's lie here. So, uh. Well until next time, grace and peace, friends 

Theme: through storms and swallowed on noise, church cheese and hand copy and mugs are light held together by grace. And a few hugs they said she submits. We said we both do. It's not about ladder since me, you serving the kingdom and lines and cows and.

Table for two. There's room for you. Pull up. Butcher will tell the truth, love, and the.