Questions We've Been Asked (and Some We Wish People Would Ask)

Ever felt like you're the only one asking hard spiritual questions? You're not alone—and you’re not wrong for wondering. In this honest and grace-filled episode, Jason and Nicole pull up a chair to tackle some of the most vulnerable questions they’ve been asked (and wish people felt safe enough to ask):

• Why do bad things happen if God is good?
• Is it a sin to feel anxious or depressed?
• What if I don’t feel forgiven, even though I’ve asked?
• How do I parent with faith when I feel like I’m barely holding it together?
• Can I love Jesus but struggle with church people?
• What does healing look like when the pain never fully goes away?

They share real-life stories, practical tools, personal struggles, and the one truth that ties it all together: Grace can carry the weight of your wondering.

Whether you're deconstructing, doubting, or just dog-tired—there's room at this table for you.

📩 Got a question you’ve been too afraid to ask? Send it in—we’d love to tackle it in a future episode.

Thanks for pulling up a chair at Table for Two. If you enjoyed today's conversation, we'd love for you to join us on Facebook! It is where we share behind-the-scenes updates, chat with listeners, and keep the conversation going throughout the week. We'd love to see you there.

Transcript

Ep11 Questions Weve Been Asked

Nicole: [00:00:00] Welcome to Table For Two, where we believe good conversations can change lives, and that includes the heart questions. 

Jason: We are your host, Nicole and Jason Barnett. We are pastors, parents, partners in ministry, and today we're diving into some of the tough spiritual questions we have been asked, and a few of 'em we, we've kind of hoped people would ask us, yeah, but they haven't yet.

Nicole: But let's face it, if one more person asks, what do pastors do all week? We might just scream into the void 

Jason: if they only knew, 

Nicole: right? 

Jason: But seriously, some of these questions have led to our most grace-filled perspective shifting moments. Uh, so we hope you'll listen in and as we dive into some of these tough.

Tough questions. Yes, this, this is table for two for two 

Theme song: through storms and swallowed on noise, church keys and hand copying mugs. Our lights held together by grace. And a few hugs they said she submits. We said [00:01:00] we both do. It's not about ladders since serving the kingdom, laugh lines and cows tan and holy routine at this.

For two, there's room for you. Pull up will tell the truth, love and faith with the side. 

Nicole: So today we're talking about some tough questions, but before we get into the heavy stuff, why don't we think about what questions we've been asked that have been hilarious or just been a lot of fun to have a child or a teen ask 

Jason: before I get into my into mine.

What's one that you've been asked? 

Nicole: Oh man. I've had so much fun. Um, this past year I taught fifth grade and there was this one boy who would always ask these very in depth questions, and there was one time where he's like. Ms. Barnett. 'cause again, I [00:02:00] was teacher not pastor, Ms. Barnett. Um, there's, you know, there's obviously fossils that exist and they're obviously real and they've been been dating these fossils back billions of years.

But the Bible says that, you know, it's only been like 5,000 years. I don't understand how to make sense of this. And so I talked to him a little bit about it, and then I finally told him, I was just like, Hey, bud, um, guess what? And he's like, what? And I was like, the, our way of telling time wasn't created until day four.

So it could have been a lot longer than that before. Um, before, um. You know, with the world being, with the world aging, it could have been a lot longer than four days because we only measure time based on what was created in day four. And his, like, you could see this light bulb go off, and all of a sudden it made so much sense to him.

And he is like, oh, okay. [00:03:00] And he, he was so excited about that. So that was a lot of fun to answer. But this kid asked a lot of really good questions and I just enjoyed it. 

Jason: That's awesome. 

Nicole: What about you? I know yours is a little, mine's 

Jason: another spicy one and I don't know why I keep having these spicy stories to tell on the podcast.

It's not like we're trying to tell these just for your entertainment. These are real things that happen in the course of our ministry, but I was serving as a youth pastor and I would, I've always been one where I don't shy away from difficult bible passages, even with the teenagers. Because I feel like we do them a disservice by just glossing over those and skipping past them.

Um, if, if the church is not gonna have those conversations with them from God's perspective on these tough things, then we can't be mad when public schools fill in their friends, fill in those gaps for us. Yeah. With, so anyway, I was teaching them about the sinful nature, [00:04:00] right. And how sin has corrupted us.

And while we were creating an image of God, right? This good, these good desires, these good intentions, sin corrupted those. And so our very real needs have been replaced by these selfish driven ones. So I, I decided to read to them from Galatians chapter five, and in Galatians chapter five, I'm gonna read verses 18 and 19.

Down through 21 for you. And as I read it, there's gonna be one word that jumps out to you. Uh, so it says, but if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery. Idol, adultery and witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfless ambition, dissensions factions and envy, drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

I warn you as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. So I read that verse and I do believe I would go, I went into the fruits of the spirit, which is verses [00:05:00] 20, the fruit of the spirit. I said, put a nest on there. That was bad. Yeah, 

Nicole: don't put the fruit of 

Jason: the spirit.

That's 

Nicole: one fruit. 

Jason: Um, I did go into that second portion later in that lesson, but as I read the, the verses, I just read to you first, and I'm sure one word jumped out at you. And Kema. I'm my youth group. The youth group at this time is a mix of. 

Nicole: Middle school and high school. 

Jason: Middle school and high school.

But the high schoolers were freshmen and sophomore mostly. Mm-hmm. And so I, I read off that, that verse explaining what the sinful nature is. And one of my freshman boys raises his hand. Very eagerly, which already puts up red flags in my mind. Mm-hmm. And he asked Pastor Jason, what's an orgy? And I'm like, kind of dumbfounded because I've never been asked this question by a student before.

Nicole: And, and he flat out was like, you know what that is? And yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. I was like, you know what that is, right? I mean, come on, you're just trying to get me to talk about it to embarrass me. I, I called him out. 

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And this kid was like, no, I really don't know what that is. And so Jason responds, 

Jason: I just tell him, you know [00:06:00] what?

Because I'm not gonna stop this lesson and get the entire youth group giggling or make 'em uncomfortable either, because some of them would, 

Nicole: yeah, that's really uncomfortable, 

Jason: really uncomfortable conversation. And so rather, but rather than just say, we're not gonna worry about that, what I told him to do was, why don't you go home and ask your mom, because I know mom will answer that question for you.

And anyway, so, uh, I'm that later that night and youth group, rest youth group was fine. I'm dropping kids off and I decided, you know what, I should probably message his mom. Send her a text message to warn her ahead of time that he's gonna ask her this question. And I sue her the text and she responds, oh, don't, don't you worry.

He already asked me as soon as he got off the church van. Hey mom, what is an orgy? And she had to sit down and explain it to her son. But I did take credit that I helped a, a mother and her son have a healthy conversation. Yes. About something important there. Yes. Uh, but. Yes. That was a bit wild. 

Nicole: That was very wild.[00:07:00] 

So those are a couple of fun questions we've been asked, and maybe not fun is the right word for that, but like, definitely memorable ones. But, um, what are some other questions we've been asked? Uh, like questions that might be a little frustrating or just might just be super repetitive. What are some of those questions?

Jason: Now these questions we're asking, these are some se serious spiritual questions. These are, these are the ones why pastors go through all the theological training. Yes. And all the time and study and why it's important for pastors to spend their own personal time studying and reading to keep their mind sharp from when these questions come up.

And not just that too, though, not as pastors, we can't live our lives in isolation away from everybody else. We have to not only have the book knowledge, but have the relational experience. 

Nicole: Oh, 100%. 

Jason: Uh. Actually, and the personal experience too, to be prepared for, to answer these questions. 'cause a lot of times these questions come charged [00:08:00] with other emotions behind them, other situations.

Yeah. Uh, so one of the first questions that we've been asked is, how do I know that God is real? 

Nicole: How do we know? I mean, it's. It. There's a lot to this question because it comes, again, it comes from a different place for every person who asks it because somebody going through a really hard time might be asking, how do I know God is real?

Because they're looking for hope, but another person might be asking it because they're looking for the scientific evidence legitimately, and other people are just trying to find ways to disprove it. So, I mean, how, how do you answer this, pastor, Jason? 

Jason: Well, typically the way I look at it is now this is specifically if, if it's a very scientifically minded person, really, even if somebody's not, I just walking back through, well, how do you, how do you think the earth came into existence?

How do you think [00:09:00] creation came into existence? And they usually either, you know, walk me back through some, the scientific process, right? All the way back to the very big bang, right? And so many times they'll leave God outta the equation. But then I'll say to them, okay, well, well, how does nothing explode?

Nicole: Yeah, 

Jason: there has to be something that triggered that explosion. Nothing means there's nothing like, I don't know that you and I or those of you listening have ever truly experienced nothing, but we've been in rooms where it's pitch black and you can't see anything in front of you. But now imagine that, but there is no matter.

There is no. Atoms or molecules or anything like that. It's just nothing. 

Nicole: It's 

Jason: a 

Nicole: void. 

Jason: It's a void. Yeah. Which is exactly what the Bible describes. Yeah. And so I'll say something had to trigger that big bang. 

???: Yeah. 

Jason: For, for, for that to happen. Something has to trigger that. Now, whether they want to accept it or not, I mean, I, and here's the truth, [00:10:00] the signs for God's existence are all around us.

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: But God allows us to have the choice whether we believe or not. Yeah. 

Nicole: Well, and to piggyback off of that, I've been watching a lot of Star talk or. I think that's what it's called. It's a podcast with, uh, Neil deGrasse Tyson. I absolutely love his science. Um, although he's very staunchly an atheist, but some of the, some of the things he talks about ha actually addresses the way that the universe came into be or came into being.

And it was like, like he's, he's telling that, he's telling his theories and the scientific, um. Explanations for how everything came to be. And, and I'm like, that sounds so much like what you and I have been talking about. 'cause you and I are definitely a little bit nerdy when it comes to that element too.

And, but he's missing, [00:11:00] he's missing X in the equation and X is God, you know? And it, because for us, it, it doesn't, it's really not a question of how anymore. It's because. Uh, God brought it into being and, and for him he's like, well, the, something caused it. Mm-hmm. Something caused it. And, and he's definitely very intelligent.

I love his science and I, I nerd out regularly when I listen to it, but to me, it's more of a confirmation for me that we're on the right track because our study of God has brought us to the same conclusion without. Excluding him. Um, but for, for me though, the evidence of God, I definitely come from a more emotional and tangible way of explaining it because, um, it's, it's more of a, [00:12:00] the fact that God exists, ki is kind of proven in the fact that we need relationship.

Mm-hmm. 

???: When 

Nicole: we are. When we are alone, even, even the most introverted person needs to have somebody to talk to, needs to have some sort of relationship. Even if it's just barely, you know, interacting. They still require something because without relationship you are dealing with mental health issues.

You're dealing with your body deteriorates, like your whole body starts to shut down if there's not. And like other people present with you and, and I think that right there is evidence of the fact that God exists and God desires a relationship because we are not designed to be alone. And I feel like if all it was was accidental and that people just exist because of evolutionary processes, I feel like the need for [00:13:00] a relationship is actually a weakness in that department because.

I mean, you go your separate ways and, and suddenly you're able to provide for yourself a lot easier. You're not having to provide for other people. You're, you're able to find shelter easily with only one person. You're like, so I feel like evolution, God's influence would. Make being solo the better option.

And I, and instead building relationship is what you are needing as a person. And so, um, so I feel like that's evidence for God. 

???: Yeah. 

Nicole: Because we're not designed to be alone in the universe. We're not designed to be alone in our own lives. 

Jason: Exactly. And I would say if you're a person asking this question, I would challenge you this.

And, and first off, no, you're not alone. Even those of us who are walking in faith, there are moments where we ask this question still. Mm-hmm. Um, 

Nicole: God, prove yourself to me. Yeah. Because I am doubting so bad right now. Yes. Yeah. 

Jason: Gideon. Gideon, in the book of [00:14:00] judges, ask God. Mm-hmm. If this is really, you, gimme a sign.

And God gives him a very specific sign. And there are times where I've asked God, can you just gimme a sign? 

???: Yeah. 

Jason: Let me know you're there. Let me know you're real. And so that's you and you're asking that question that, that's my challenge to you. I want you to pray that prayer every day. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: And say, God, show me that you're there.

Prove yourself to me. And that, believe 

Nicole: me, God loves it when we do that. Because when we express our doubt in an honest, in an honest desire to find the truth, we'll find it. Because God has promised that seek me and you will find me if you seek me with all your heart. Um, and so if we're really earnestly seeking, God will reveal himself to us.

Jason: That's right. 

Nicole: But you know, there's other questions too. Like, why do bad things happen to good people? 

Jason: And I wish I could give you a solid [00:15:00] answer on this, right. Um, it's a question that the book of Dr. Wrestles with 

Nicole: mm-hmm. 

Jason: And it's a question that Jesus gets confronted with. Right. Uh, 

Nicole: honestly, I kind of wonder if he was asking that question to himself in the garden of the Godem.

Yeah. Where he was asking God to take the, the. The cup from him because he, he knew what was gonna happen to him. Yeah. He didn't want it to happen. 

Jason: Yeah. Uh, well, I can't remember where it's at in the gospels, but Jesus has confronted and asked about some se like a series of disasters that had happened.

Mm-hmm. Like a tower collapsed and something along those lines. And. Jesus' response. So the, they assumed is because great sin happened there, so these devastating events happened. Yeah. And certainly sin does have consequences and sometimes those consequences do lead to death. But in this case, Jesus says that's, this has nothing to do with sin.

Not, not in personal sins that were committed. Yeah. [00:16:00] Uh, this was just a tragedy that happened. 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: When you live in a broken, fallen world and, and bad events happen, you know it. Something. I mean, for a tower to collapse requires either faulty building structure or it could involve. Just 

Nicole: a bad foundation.

Like not even a, not even a faulty billing, but like, think about the middle school. Yeah. Our, our middle school is built on a, on a hill made of dirt, and shell, shell, like, it's, it's lit. The foundation's literally crumbling beneath it. And, and the school itself was built well. But now the, there's cracks in the walls and, and certain parts of the building, they're like, oh, we probably shouldn't use this anymore.

And so they're in the process of making a way to build another middle school. But [00:17:00] I mean, sometimes it's not the engineer's fault. Sometimes it's not the, sometimes it's just. 

Jason: The ground. Yeah. Things that we just don't know. Yeah. Right. And so that, that's kinda what Jesus is getting after. It's just this, this happened.

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: It's not because of sin, but these things happen and they remind us that the reminders that we as humans are mortal. 

???: Yeah. 

Jason: And that there are decisions we make in this life that are, are important. Um, now the Book of Job really addresses this question. And those that attended, uh, Ravenna Church of the Nazarene, we spent over a year yeah, studying the book of Job together.

And the one thing I pointed out is all the bad stuff that happens to Job isn't be because he's an unfaithful person. Got in the very beginning of the book, the book claims that job is a righteous man. And nowhere through anywhere else in that book do we, are we given [00:18:00] a reason to think otherwise? And matter of fact, God does not.

He confronts job in some of his questions, but he never accuses job of being unrighteous in his questioning. 

???: Yeah. 

Jason: The only person God actually calls out are the friends. Um, so that's not the issue in the book of job. So, but Job throughout the book has all these tough questions. He wants to ask God, right?

Like, why is this happening? Questions that, the very questions that we are asking right here is why do good things or bad things happen to good people? And when it comes to God finally confronting job and giving job. The answer really what God's answer boils down to. And I'm really simplifying a whole chapter or two worth of God's answer to Job.

What God essentially says to Job is, trust me. 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: Yeah. And, and that's really what it boils down to. It's not about whether good or bad happens to us. It's about whether or not it goes back to our first case. Do you believe God's real and do you trust that he does love you? And what good things for you.

Yeah. Uh, and sometimes those, those good things are [00:19:00] gonna lead us through some very intense moments in life. 

Nicole: Yeah. Oh, and, um, to kind of also dig a little deeper into that question, a lot of people ask that question more in the lines of why does God let that things happen? Or why does God cause bad things to happen?

And I, I want to point out the fact that God does not, 

???: yes, 

Nicole: God is not the author of death or destruction or suffering. He does not cause bad things to happen. But it's, I I kind of explained this 'cause this is another question that was asked. In my co in my class, fifth graders asked some pretty great questions for the record, but, but one of the kids, um, was like, you know, why, why does God cause bad things to happen?

And I was like, God doesn't cause bad things to happen. And, and I was just like, you know, if I, if I'm walking with my little girl and she falls and, and scrapes her knee, I didn't push her down. I didn't cause [00:20:00] that to happen. She, she fell and it's not even her fault. You know, maybe the ground was unsteady.

Maybe, maybe, you know, there was, there was a, maybe her shoe came off, may like, but again, it's not necessarily her fault. So it's not her sin that she fell and, and or carelessness. It's, it's outside circumstances. Sometimes it's her carelessness, but sometimes it's not. Um, but, you know, she fell and scraped her knee and I'm not gonna be like, Hey.

You should have worn different shoes or you need a, you know, but what I will do is I will pick her up and I'll take care of her in her pain. And that's what God does with us. So, you know, we're, we're walking along and we're going to experience some suffering and everything. God's walking right with us, God's right walking right next to us with us, and he is ready to, to pick us up and hold us in our pain, in our suffering.

And, and, you [00:21:00] know. It, it might have been our own carelessness that caused the pain, but it might not have. But one thing we can rest assured is that God's with us when we are in, when we are hurting. That's 

Jason: right. Uh, another question we've been asked, uh, is, is it a sin to feel anxious or depressed? 

Nicole: And I am going to be very blunt and say, no, it's, it is not a sin to feel anxious or depressed.

Anxiety and depression are mental disorders that are a cause through the chemical makeup of your mind. You can't control those things. 

???: Yes, sir. 

Nicole: And sometimes it's caused through her genetics. Um, unfortunately for our children. They have parents who, at least their mom has generations of mental illness in her family.

Um, my, you know, my birth mom was, uh. [00:22:00] She, she was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and borderline personality disorder. Um, her mom had severe depression to the point that like she completely shut down and lost custody. Her mom had severe PTSD and depression and. Uh, and before like it, it was generations back and, you know, now I'm, I'm dealing with anxiety and depression.

Um, I, I'm, I won't speak for you, but 

Jason: No, but, 

Nicole: you know, but 

Jason: I, I, yeah, I, I've dealt with anxiety and depression my as well. And, um, I can tell you what, what was wrong about it. Was me trying to hide the fact that I was dealing with it. 

Nicole: Yeah. Because we're supposed to carry one another's burdens, and when we're holding that, holding it back and hiding it, we're not allowing, allowing healing to take place.

We're not allowing support to take place, and we're not allowing. Ourselves to [00:23:00] experience God's grace through it. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: Um, so like that's, that's one thing that I've been very grateful for is being surrounded by people, um, at least other pastors who are very understanding of the fact that mental health is a very serious thing to take care of.

Um, so the second I started showing signs of. Depression or anxiety, they were like, you know, let's get you, let's get you talking to someone. Let's, let's start talking, like interacting and, and seeing if we can handle this unmedicated, but if not, then let's get you some medication. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. 

Jason: So, so no, it's not, it is not a sin to deal with anxiety or depression.

And I think a good biblical example of this would be, um, Jesus at the, the wedding in Cana. Right? Mm-hmm. Because Jesus goes, is at this wedding, it's, I don't know who, I don't know how Jesus knows the couple, I don't know. The scripture really tells us somehow they're connected with Jesus', mom. 'cause Jesus' mom is there.

[00:24:00] True. And remember, in, in that scene, they run outta wine. They run outta wine at this big wedding, which that's a big deal. Like for this family. Like it's, it's a big deal to run out of wine. Like it's a big slap into their face as host of a, an event like this. And. So you can imagine the worry and anxiety that was controlling this family.

Like, okay, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Jesus deals with that. Jesus stops and deals. This isn't a life or physical life or death issue. This is not a sin or sin, or it's not a, it is not a, a deformity, it's not any of those things. Jesus, it's an 

Nicole: embarrassment. That's, that's it. 

Jason: It's an embarrassment for them, which 

Nicole: could have mental health react effects.

Yes. 

Jason: So what does Jesus do? Jesus deals with this emotional need. Yes. So again, as Christians we get, we can get caught up in thinking that these things mean you lack faith or, or that you, you, [00:25:00] that you're somehow sending against God. But that's just not true. 

???: No. 

Jason: Um, when it, when it does become dangerous though, is when we.

Allow those things to go untreated and allow them to push us away from God. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Instead of leaning away from God and pushing God away in those moments, what we really need to do, that's when we need to lean more into him. 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: And we need to be more honest with him about what we're dealing with. 

???: Yeah.

Jason: And confess those things. Uh, and which I know for me over the last couple years, I've dealt with a lot of anxiety and a lot of PTSD from events that have happened in our past. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that I did that kind of helped me with it through it was I started making a journal. About things that would happen on Sunday, because that's my biggest source of anxiety is okay, what is there about, did we even accomplish anything on Sunday?

And that's what the enemy comes after me about is the aftermath of Sunday. And so I started journaling and I still do it off and on the good things that happened on that Sunday. And that would go back and read it. And every time I'd read it, there wasn't a week that went by that I couldn't name something.[00:26:00] 

At least that good happened in that service. Mm-hmm. So it was a reminder to me, and, and that helped me with my anxiety. Not, I'm not saying that would help with you, but how did I get to that point? Is that I recognized that anxiety, I did get help. Uh, and, but that, but then I also took steps to. To deal with it.

Now that doesn't mean I'm, does that mean I'm free from anxiety? No, absolutely not. But you are, you ha 

Nicole: now have the tools Yes. To help you deal with it. And, and that's kind of the point is I mean, we're not meant to wallow in any sort of illness. Um, and, and we're not meant to use an illness as a reason to separate us from God or one another.

We're supposed to find healing and, and sometimes the healing is a long, lifelong process, and sometimes it does heal very quickly. Um, but the, the key is getting the [00:27:00] tools, getting the, getting the resources to manage and take care of yourself. And you know that that's both physical and mental. 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: And of course spiritual

all. Um, what if I don't feel forgiven, even though I've asked God to forgive me? That's another tough one. 

Jason: Yeah. Uh, because again, so many times we'll go to these big church services revival type events, and the invitations going given, and we see people coming down the altar, they're crying, right. And the people around 'em are praying and crying and.

And so in our minds, we get this idea that's what repentance looks like. Shed tears and, and this big emotional response. But not everybody's that emotional like that. 

Nicole: No. Well, and, and another thing is, is a lot of times we base God's forgiveness on how other people respond to [00:28:00] our repentance too. Um, I, you know, I talk with.

Children in the children's ministry pretty regularly about this, where they'll like, they'll hit each other or they'll say something mean and, and then, you know, I'll be like, okay, that's not, that's not kind, that's not Christ-Like, let's approach this in a more Christ-like manner and they'll apologize.

But then the other kid is still a little bitter. And then they, the, the kid that. Was the instigator and hurt them. It's like, well, they won't forgive me. And, and, and I was just like, well, here's the thing. It's not up to you to decide if they forgive you or not. It's up to them. That's between them and God, my question is, are you really repentant?

Because God will forgive you. God has forgiven you if you're really repented, but it, but you can't base. You can't base your [00:29:00] repentance or your, your forgiveness off of what somebody else is like if somebody else is holding onto it. 

Jason: Yeah. What we need to base it on is what God says. Yeah. God word says, tells us that if you, if you ask for forgiveness, our God is righteous and just to forgive that sin.

Yeah. 

Nicole: And he'll cast it as far to the east as from the west. 

Jason: So you can take, let me ask you this. When you turned 18 years old, the government said you were an adult. Did you feel like an adult at 18? 

Nicole: Do your parents treat you as an adult at 18? Probably not. 

Jason: Okay. What about when you turn 25? No. Mean? 'cause now you can rent a car and in, in a hotel room.

By this point, do you still feel, do you feel like an adult then? 

Nicole: I don't. And I'm 35. Yeah. 

Jason: I'm 38 right now. I still don't feel like an adult. I'm still wondering why anybody lets me pastor a church, drive a car, have children, parents. Yeah. It's like I ask those questions, do do you feel like that? Sometimes we don't, the feelings don't match the reality of what's, what's taking place.

Yeah. Right. And [00:30:00] so just like the government in our country says, you're an adult at 18, God's word says, if you ask God to forgive you, you're forgiven. 

Nicole: Doesn't matter what anybody else says. 

Jason: Yes. Uh, it doesn't matter even what you're feeling. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Uh, 

Nicole: and because another issue that we might be dealing with is not the lack of God's forgiveness, but the lack of our own.

Jason: Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: We're holding onto grudges against ourselves. 

Jason: Yeah, absolutely. 

Nicole: And, and because we're holding onto that, that grudge against ourselves. We think that that's actually God saying, but in reality, no, God has already forgiven you. You need to forgive yourself. 

Jason: Yes, and 

Nicole: and again, that's easier said than done.

Jason: And the other thing I'll point out here real quick too, is, and so for some reason all my teachings can keep coming back to these two verses, Jesus gave the two greatest command. Which is essentially love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, 

Nicole: and love your neighbor as, and 

Jason: love your neighbor as yourself.

You see, we get the love God, and we get the love others, but there's a, there's an, there's an addendum to the love. Others, it's as you love [00:31:00] yourself, so sometimes what's blocking us feeling God's forgiveness and God's love, and even the love from other people around us, is that we've gotta learn to love ourself.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Now, I'm not saying that's your case, that's what you're dealing with, but that, that's a place to, to ask yourself. Um, and do I love myself enough to actually feel what's going on around me? But again, your salvation is not based on feeling. 

???: No. 

Jason: It's based on the blood of Jesus. All right, well, we're next que next.

We're gonna go onto some questions that we wish people would ask. Uh, and so the first question they ask is, what do I do when I don't like church people, but I miss Jesus and. First off, I'll, I'll tell you this, you're still a Christian if you're still walking with Jesus, right? If you still believe that he's your Lord and Savior, if you're still walking in step with his commandments, right?

And his ways not, [00:32:00] when I say walking in step, it's not because you're afraid you're gonna die and go to help, but because you genuinely love God and you wanna please him, you're still in step with him. 

Nicole: Yeah. And I will say this too, you're not alone. The Bible's filled with people who. Saw what people who bore the name of Jesus or bore the name of God were doing and were appalled and sick and tired of the hypocrisy and the, the disgusting behavior and they spoke out against it.

Mm-hmm. Um, they're called the prophets for the record. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you're not alone when you, when you see church people acting hypocritical. And disliking it and just being like, I cannot stand church people. Um, because it, it's hard to see people who are bearing the name of someone we know loves everyone, treating people like dirt.

Jason: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Um, and I, and I would add this in there too, and this is for [00:33:00] those of you that maybe this is what you're dealing with. We're living at, we, we think church, uh, as the four walls. The building with the brick and mortar and the wood or the palm trees, whatever your church uses as a structure.

But really the church is the people. Yeah. So maybe, maybe you're, you're, you know, the big organized church. Maybe you don't like them, but I'm sure you've got friends that love Jesus whenever the two or three, two or three of you are gathered, there he is. You can have church. That way you can have 

Nicole: church in a small group in your living room.

Jason: And I would argue when you're on TikTok listening to your favorite Bible teachers on there, you're listening to the podcast. Even that's a form of church. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: And so don't, and and, and most likely you're dealing with, there's a reason why you quit going. There's a reason why you don't like them. Yeah. And maybe what you need right now is some space away from the church.

One to discover [00:34:00] who God is for yourself and two, to heal. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Um, 

Nicole: because again, sometimes we're holding onto bitterness. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: And, and honestly it, it's understandable, but when we're missing Jesus, Jesus is still there. 

Jason: Yeah. He's not going anyway. Jesus is 

Nicole: still present and. And also I, I wanna encourage the people that might be feeling a little defeated, um, feeling like, oh, I'm just surrounded by the stereotypical church person or church people.

I'm surrounded by them. And I just kind of feel like I'm the only one who, who under who, who understands that Jesus has called us to love our neighbor as ourself and. Um, I've, I've, I've seen a lot of people walk away from church, walk away from fellowship, walk away from Christianity [00:35:00] even, because they've seen so much hypocrisy like that.

And

I, I kind of am pleading a little bit, um, to stand, stand strong because if you walk away. It's one less and, and it's, it's hard when you're the only people and the only one, the only five in, in the church and you witness somebody, somebody leaving who also believe the way the, the gospel is telling them to, to live.

Yeah. All. 

Jason: Another question that we wish we'd be asked is, what does healing look like if the pain never fully goes away? 

Nicole: Oh, I've seen an image of this. Okay, so imagine like, this was [00:36:00] grief, it was explaining grief, but imagine a box and there's a big red button in there, and there's like a bowling ball in there too.

And, and anytime the box is jostled, the bowling ball moves, right? 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: Well, obviously initially it's gonna get, the button's gonna get pressed constantly. Like you're gonna get, you're, that, that grief button, that that pain button is, is going to be constant. Um, as time goes on, the bowling ball gets smaller and the grief button gets smaller, but.

Every once in a while, no matter how long it goes, that button's gonna still be pressed occasionally. And, and I think that's how we kind of need to understand that sometimes, sometimes the scars still hurt. Hmm. Um, I,

I know [00:37:00] that, um. A couple years ago, I broke my toe, I dropped a TV on it. That was fun. Um, every once in a while I'll still get like a sharp pain in that toe because it, it, it hit her nerve, like, and, um, and so the, the toe's healed. It's fine. The bone's not broken anymore, but there's still the occasional, there's still the occasional sharp pain that happens.

But the thing is, is it's still healed. So I I, I think the, the thing we need to remember is, yeah, sometimes the pain still comes around, but that doesn't mean that you're not healed. It doesn't mean that you're not healing. It just means that every once in a while it still hurts a little bit. Um. And so don't, don't give up when you're experiencing pain.

Don't, don't feel like, oh my goodness, why am I not over this? Because grief [00:38:00] and hurt, and especially like emotional hurt, spiritual hurt, those are not things that you just get over. You heal from it. But the memories, the memory is still there. The scars are still there, and you don't need to feel ashamed of the scars.

Jason: Yeah. And um, one of my. Lemme share a quote with you for one of my favorite book series. It's not a Christian book series. It's a series called The Dresden Files Put out by, by, uh, um, what's his name? John Butcher. John, uh, Jim Butcher's. Jim Butcher is the writer for it. And the Dresden Files is about a wizard living in Chicago.

But there's this powerful quote in it, and it, this is what it says, says Pain is a part of life. Sometimes it's a big part and sometimes it isn't. But either way, it's a part of the big puzzle. The deep music, the great game. Pain does two things. It teaches you, it tells you that you're alive, then it passes away and leaves you changed, it leaves you wiser sometimes, sometimes it leaves you stronger.

Either way, [00:39:00] pain leaves, its smart, and everything important that will ever happen to you in life is going to involve it in one degree or another. 

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: So pain is a way that lets it snow or alive. I, I always clinging to that. So when we feel that pain, it, it's a reminder of one, what we've been through.

???: Mm-hmm. 

Jason: But also, that's also a reminder. That's what God's brought us from. 

???: Yeah. 

Jason: So it's both a, and this is what God taught us through it. So it's a reminder of God's faithfulness as well as what we have learned through human experience. 

Nicole: Yeah. And maybe it can teach us to be a little bit more compassionate to other people who are going through similar issues.

Yeah. 

Jason: Um, the next question that we've been asked is, uh, or wish we wish we'd been asked is, how can I parent with faith when I feel like I'm barely holding it together? I wish I had a good answer for this one, 

Nicole: right? Because let's face it, sometimes we feel like we're just, we don't even know what we're doing.

You 

Jason: feel like my hair's on fire, the house is on fire, the kids are on fire, the dog's on fire, the church is on [00:40:00] fire, and I have a, I have one square gun.

Um, I, I'll, I'll, I'll say this. So I was working with a student who struggled with anxiety. When I very got started before Nicole and I even met. 

???: Hmm. 

Jason: And uh, she came and said, Jason, what do I do? And I said, well, you know what helps me? I tell myself, if I could just make it to breakfast. 

Nicole: Yeah. Little milestones.

If 

Jason: I could just make it to lunch, if I could just make it to dinner. Those little milestones like that, instead of looking at the big picture.

Ask God to help you with the moment that you're in. Yeah. Doesn't mean all the big problems go away, but man, again, what gets me so worked up is when I look at all the things I'm trying to hold together, it becomes overwhelming. But when I take a [00:41:00] step back and begin to focus, okay, I can, I can accomplish this.

Um, that's why I love having a to-do list, because there's nothing more exhilarating than crossing something off your to-do list, even though mine never is completely finished. Um, you feel like you've gained something, you've accomplished something. Yeah. 

Nicole: Um, I know for me it's, I, it's so important to have a, a network of people, like even, even just a couple people that you can talk to.

Um. Kind of vent a little bit. Sometimes we'll be dealing with a situation that just, it's embarrassing. And then you're talking to another parent or, or somebody who is, you know, has parented in the past and they're like, oh, yeah, no, I've, I've dealt with that like. Or they'll [00:42:00] just start telling their own stories and suddenly you're like, oh, I was dealing with this last week and I felt so embarrassed.

But now I know that this is a common issue for a parent. Um, having, having other parents as a network is so important. Um, if you don't have people in your community. That are, that our parents, if, if like you're like the only young mom or young father in, in your church or, or at your workplace or whatever, and you don't have anybody that you can talk to immediately, there's Facebook parent groups and some of 'em are terrible, but some of them are amazing and they're just like, they, they help you realize that you're not alone in this journey.

Um. And, and so, you know, that's kind of been a lifesaver for me because sometimes I just feel like I'm barely hanging on and then all of a sudden I'm talking to another parent and, and they're sharing [00:43:00] that they're dealing with the same thing. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Nicole: And it's like the same thing I'm dealing with right now, and I've been too embarrassed to say something and then they're like, oh, yeah.

Or, or I'll be talking with what one of our board members who has already raised their kids and they'll be sharing a story of when their, their son or daughter was 10 years old and, and they're doing exactly what our daughter's son is doing. And I'm like, oh, I'm, I feel, I feel great right now. And if you're 

Jason: an older Christian listening to this.

That like, like Nicole just described, that you've already raised your kids. Some of, one of the ways that you can help young parents like us the most is just sharing the real stories with us, not the polished church portrait. Yeah. For the directive version of your family, but the no, share 

Nicole: the stories of when your son clogged the toilet with a plastic donut.

Jason: Yes. Because those are, those are helpful for us. Yeah. And lets us know we're, we're not failing as parents. And 

Nicole: for the record, that was a real story for us. 

Jason: We'll tell that [00:44:00] one for another time. Um, and listen, if you're a parent and you are, you feel barely, feel like you're hanging on and maybe you don't have anybody else to talk to, talk to us.

Message our page. Uh, mess messages per personally. It's not like we're hard to find. Um, we'd love to connect with you and try and, and journey with you, uh, the best way we can. And, and to be honest, sometimes we, not just the questions we've read here, but we wish people knew that it's okay to ask messy unpolished questions.

Nicole: Yeah. The, it's, it's really true that there's no such thing as a stupid question. 

???: Yeah. 

Nicole: Um. Sometimes there's stubborn questions where you really know what the answer is and you're looking for a different one, but it's still not a stupid question, especially if you're really looking for the truth. 

Jason: Yeah. And, and sometimes the most spiritual thing that you and I can say, or even if you're listening, that you can say to yourself is, I don't know, but I'm still seeking.

Nicole: Yep. Yeah. [00:45:00] So I mean, I, I think I've. I told that to Jaden if, and Ben a time or two when they've asked me spiritual questions and and other questions and I'm just like, I don't know. Let's look together. Let's discover this answer together. Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. Real faith grows in the space where doubt and love meet, and that's really what the church exists for.

The church should be a safe place for us to come and ask these. Messy and unpolished questions. And if you don't feel comfortable going to the church, your pastor should be somebody that you're comfortable with coming to with these questions. And, and as pastors, there's, we're not real, we're not answer keys.

We don't have all the answers. We're, we're just, we're journeying through this life the same way that you are doing our best to seek God. Uh, like I said a moment ago, I sometimes we, we say, I don't know, but I'm still seeking. But it's sometimes it's easier knowing that you have somebody that you're journeying through this [00:46:00] life with.

Um, the church really needs to become a safe place for asking, not just for answering. And here's the thing about that. Jesus tells us, if you seek me, you will find me. So we need to be a place where people can come seeking not just. Uh, not just to get the answer, but to, as a part of their journey in looking for the answer.

Nicole: So now we're kind of turning the, the discussion out to you or around to you and asking, you know, what's the one question you've always wanted to ask a pastor but never have? Or maybe you've asked a pastor and their question or their answer really didn't make sense and, and. Yeah. 

Jason: Or they just kinda gave you a cliche answer.

Nicole: Yeah. Like, oh, you just trust God. Like sometimes yes, that is the answer, but you just 

Theme song: gotta have both faith. 

Nicole: Yeah. Um, go ahead and send it to us. We would love [00:47:00] to answer that. And you can send it anonymously. Um, you don't have to, we don't have to know who it is. I mean, I don't care if it's another pastor, but that is just seeking a question or seeking an answer of a question they've had on their heart, or, you know, maybe it.

Maybe your child has asked you the question and you don't, you don't have the answer. So you want to, you wanna ask, um, go ahead and send it to us and we might feature it in a future e episode. 

Jason: Yeah. And, and again, 'cause someone else might be asking that same question you just asked, 

Nicole: I can guarantee you they are, but 

Jason: they're, they're just too shy or afraid to ask it.

Mm-hmm. And so by you asking it, it kind of, you're kind of helping somebody else while also, while also working through your own journey as well. Yeah. 

Nicole: So we hope today's episode reminded you that you're not alone in your questions and that grace can hold the weight of all of your wondering, 

Jason: yes. And be kind to yourself.

And also be bold enough to ask the next hard question and we'll be here for it. 

Nicole: [00:48:00] So thank you for pulling up a chair to our table for two. 

Theme song: Wait through storms and swallowed on noise. Church cheese and hand copy and mugs are light held together by grace. And a few hugs they said she submits. We said we both do.

It's not about ladders since mi, you serving the Kingdom and eighth one and genes laugh lines and cows hands and holy routine at this. Table for two. There's room for you. Pull up. Butcher will tell the truth, love, and with the.