Respawn Parenting

As parents, we can't protect our children from every danger—but we can prepare them to navigate the world with wisdom.

In this episode of Table for Two, Jason and Nicole talk about parenting in the digital age. Are video games and technology something Christians should fear, or are they tools that can be used wisely? Through a real story involving their son Ben, they explore online safety, healthy boundaries, stranger danger in digital spaces, and practical ways parents can help children respond when something feels wrong.

Along the way, they discuss why technology itself isn't the enemy, how to create a home where kids feel safe telling the truth, and why the first words a parent says after a child reports something online matter more than they may realize.

Plus, the continuing text message story takes a new turn as Amber and her husband Josh wrestle with setting healthy boundaries with an overbearing parent—raising an important conversation about marriage, family, and protecting the peace of your home.

Whether you're a parent, grandparent, teacher, youth leader, children's worker, or simply care about helping the next generation grow in wisdom, this episode offers practical encouragement rooted in everyday life and biblical principles.

Pull up a chair. There's room for you at the table.

If your child experiences suspicious or inappropriate online behavior, report it to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.
📞 24-Hour Hotline: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678)
💻 CyberTipline: Report online at CyberTipline.org.

Thanks for pulling up a chair at Table for Two. If you enjoyed today's conversation, we'd love for you to join us on Facebook! It is where we share behind-the-scenes updates, chat with listeners, and keep the conversation going throughout the week. We'd love to see you there.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey Nicole, quick question. What? Would you rather send a text to the wrong person or accidentally join the wrong voice chat online?

SPEAKER_05 0:13

I think we both know the answer to this one.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

What what is the answer?

SPEAKER_05 0:19

I'd rather send the wrong text message.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Why is that?

SPEAKER_05 0:24

We know I you know I have a story about voice chat.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Oh yeah, I think it's not you have a story, it's we have a story.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

That's for another podcast episode.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

I'm not I'm not talking about that today. I'm not I'm that's that's an embarrassing story.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yes, it's it's the most embarrassing story that you could ever have. Um fair enough. Well, today we're talking about something that lives somewhere between those worlds.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yep. We're talking about technology.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

The good, the bad, and how we raise kids to navigate it wisely. This is table for two.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Church cheese in hand, coffee and mugs, our lights held together by grace and a few hugs. Stay set, cheese, dump, mix, we set up two. It's not about ladders, it's me and you. Serving the chain dominate ones and genes. Last lines and calcans and holy routines. At this table for two, there's room for you. Pull up for share with table truth. Love and face with the side up for face, we'll talk notes.

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let's start with a question.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

And just so you know, we would love to hear your comments, your answers to this question in the comments. It's probably a better way to say this. We should probably have slept better before we started recording this.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Yeah, because we both know we're both exhausted. But here's here's the question: What video game did you spend way too much time playing growing up?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Um, is it safe to admit some of these? And now, you know, yeah. Is there a statute of limitations on your parents being able to punish you for games you shouldn't have been playing?

SPEAKER_05 2:13

I don't think there's a statute of well, I don't think there's a statute of limitations, but your parents are not able to punish you.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Okay, good. Well, you know, so you know, Golden Wild is one I played a lot at Friends House, you know, back in the day on Nintendo 64. Most of my games happen on Nintendo 64, except my favorite game to play ever. You see, kids, there's this game called Halo. And you went around, it was called it was about evolved combat where you're like a guy in a robot, so and you went around shooting up aliens.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Is that the one that you kept killing?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, I kept killing it. You can tell that story here in a minute. But anyway, so I was playing this game, and it's now when you play games like multiplayer now, you most of the time you play them online, so you don't even have to be in the same room.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

But when you play multiplier on Halo on the original Xbox, you had to actually hook it to a TV, have four other people in the room with you, and then you could play capture the flag, right? So there's two bases, and you actually had guns and bombs and grenades and tanks and anything you think of, you had it to deploy each up trying to steal the flag. But we also discovered, again, you could have more than that. You could actually hook up to four Xboxes together and have a huge halo bow. Now, the halo bells we had were never that big. Um We usually had two Xboxes, so it was you know four on four. And I remember we'd always go to our youth leader's house to have these parties, right? And sometimes we would get in trouble because we order pizza, because you know, she would leave with her husband and leave all of us teen boys there by ourselves, and we'd order pizza, and we'd get in trouble because she is one of those moms that like things nice and neat, and well, we're teen boys and nice and neat. It's not in our wheelhouse, but we would play these Halo parties, and we just have so many great memes I have so many great memories of just sitting around the living room throwing grenades and sticking it to people. Um so many times of you know playing rounds where you everybody had rocket launchers only, and yeah, it was just a great time.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

Yeah, I didn't grow up playing video games very much.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah. Um and so we're quick for a couple answers. I tried to teach her to play Halo on the 360, but it's Halo 2. And she got really mad at me for no reason.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

No reason. Okay, so again, I didn't grow up playing video games. I didn't I I think I played Halo once on my cousin's console when I was growing up. But so I I never played this game. And and Jason figured out that he could throw sticky grenades up the elevator shaft, and I kept respawning on the right next to this elevator shaft, and he kept killing me, and then I'd respawn in the same spot, and he'd throw another grenade up the elevator shaft, and it would come and stick to me, and then I'd it was the longest killing spree of my Halo career. I think he killed me like 25 times. I'm not even exaggerating.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

I can't believe they kept responding in the same spot.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Yeah, I finally threw the controller at him and told him I was done. It was like I was done.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

And she never played Halo with me again?

SPEAKER_05 5:18

I never did. But my answer, because I again I didn't play video games very much. My my brother at one point was able to get a Nintendo 64 and he set it up in his room because he had his own TV and everything. But like we never we didn't as a family own a console. It was my brother's console. And I used like he he loved he loved Goldeneye. Um that was that was one of his favorites. He also, like, I think he had Diddy Kong Racing, which I loved that one too. Um but there were two that I really loved, and one was Army Men. But I only loved playing with with Johnny because he would he would allow us to do the cheats, and so I would do unlimited ammo and I would just go around with a flamethrower or or uh or a machine gun, just like shooting non-stop, and half the time I killed him without even knowing he was there. So that was a lot of fun. But the other one was Road Rage. Do you remember Road Rage?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

I remember Road Rage, yes. I played it on PC though, I didn't play it on Nintendo PlayStation.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

It was so much fun though. Like, for those of you who don't know, Road Rage was like it was a racing game, but you were on a motorcycle and you had like um iron, like you had like uh what are like nights and and crowbars and things that you all kinds of weapons, yeah. That you get that you had to like you were able to hit the other players as you're trying to race and try to get ahead of them. And I I was horrible at that game. I don't think I won once, but it was so much fun, and I kept like finding all these like shortcut trails and stuff like that, trying to beat beat it, but it was so much fun, and I was like able to take my road rage out on a bunch of NPCs.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I think that's the close problem now that when she drives because she has no way to take out her road rage is from playing this violent video game, which I'm kind of undermining our entire philosophy of this episode by talking saying this, but maybe. But again, we we'd love to hear what what what game was yours? What game took up a lot of your time as a kid? Okay, maybe even as an adult, what game took up a lot of your time? We'd love to hear you. Post in the comments on our Facebook page. We'd love we do we really do enjoy seeing your feedback and hearing from you. So please, please do that. Nicole, you just got a text message. You might want to check it out.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

The following segment is not based on any real life events or happenings. The names are made up. Just like Kuzon Isn't we? The characters and names are not real, but the points might be.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Okay, so today's message. It looks like it's not from Sadie, or it's not about Sadie.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

A bit of a change of direction, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 8:19

Yeah, it is. So here's today's message. Again, we've talked about Sadie. We've talked about Amber, her mom, and and the mother-in-law, Linda.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

And the father-in-law, Frank.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Yeah. But now we're gonna meet another member of the family. And Amber writes, Hey Nicole, Josh and I had one of those conversations where nobody was yelling, but nobody was really smiling either. Linda stopped by the house yesterday while I was at work. Except she didn't really stop by. She let herself in.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

She broke in and entered.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

Well, Josh says she was just helping, but apparently helping included organ reorganizing my pantry, cleaning out my refrigerator, and going through Sadie's room because she wanted to make sure everything looked appropriate. Josh kept saying, that's just mom. And honestly, I know he's trying to dis he's not trying to dismiss my feelings. That's just the family he grew up in. I know Linda loves us, I know she loves Sadie, but I don't think loving someone gives you unlimited access to their home or their lives. I finally told Josh, I think we need to set some boundaries, and he got really quiet. Finally, he's like, Mom isn't gonna like that. And I told him, I'm not trying to punish your mom, I'm just trying to protect our peace. After about five minutes, he sighed and said, You're probably right. But then he added, Just know mom's going to blame you. I replied, I'm pretty sure she already does. Please tell me why please tell me we are not the only family learning how to set healthy boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Wow. Yay. That sounds like a bit much.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

I mean, I mean, cleaning out the fridge, okay. If somebody wants to break in my house and clean out the fridge, I'd let them Okay, but here's the thing.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

How does how do they or how does Linda know that what she's tossing out in the out of the fridge is something that they're not going to use for dinner tonight?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah. Like that's really what the issue is. It's you're you're stepping into somebody else's space assuming what their plans are.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Assuming also going on the assumption I know what's best for them.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And that's kind of an interesting thing. And uh unfortunately, this is a reality for a lot of of married couples, actually. So when Amber is asking us if this is learning to set healthy boundaries with family is important. It really is. Um again, I don't think Josh is a bad husband. I don't think Amber's trying to stir up drama. Um, and Linda probably does mean well. But loving somebody doesn't mean that they get no boundaries. There are boundaries that we put in place.

SPEAKER_05 11:11

Yeah. And honestly, I'm not crazy about Josh's response either.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, there's a part of that that yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Um, for one thing, when you are a married couple, you need to be a united friend. So if Josh has an issue with it, he needs to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Not just be like, well, mom's gonna blame you.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:31

Because that just tells me that Josh is not supporting his wife, and that when mom starts to complain to Josh, because we know she's going to, that Josh is gonna be like, well, it's Amber's. Yeah, you know how Amber is. That's not united.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

That's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Right. And this is this is an important discussion because this the Bible's pretty clear on how this is supposed to play out, right? It's it says leave and cleave. Yeah, the husband is to leave his family and cleave to his wife, right? And so why is that? It's because the two, the husband and wife, are creating a new family. They are creating their own family. Yes, is it an extension of the old one? Yes, is it is it connected to the woman? Yes, but they are forming a new family, they are forming a a new life together. And parents can be a a blessing in that, right? They can provide wisdom, but in the end, at some point, you you have to respect the boundary that this is no longer this is still your child, but this is no longer your space to step into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

And I mean, I'm just gonna say this. So it looked like Linda organized the kit reorganized the pantry, cleaned out the fridge, and messed with Sadie's room. Those are spaces that Amber is most likely responsible for in her home. Okay. I wonder how Josh would feel if Amber's dad came and decided he was gonna reorganize the garage.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:00

Or or um throw out a bunch of quote unquote useless fishing gear. Or decide that that um that Josh needs a better gun cake cabinet or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

And he's got a gun that's much too powerful for him, so he's gonna take it, put it in a safe place for him.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Yeah. And it's like Josh would feel like his he was his space was invaded. He would feel like somebody is completely disrespecting him. And yet and and Amber could easily respond, well, that's just dad.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

But but again, like you have to think about this in in an empathetic way. How would you feel if your space was being invaded?

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

And and the things that you have responsibility for in your home, like if somebody comes in and just starts like altering everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah. Well, for instance, it's like so when we first moved into the parsonage here, um, I think you put the dishes in one drawer, and then I decided to move them because here's the thing, you may not know this about this, but I'm the one that does most of the cooking. And so I arranged the kitchen that in a way that works for me.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

And correction, actually, when we were going and getting the dogs, Donna did a lot of the unpacking in the kitchen to help us out, and she put it in the space that made sense for her. I kept it that way because I didn't see anything wrong with it.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, I wasn't trying to blame you, I'm just trying to give perspective.

SPEAKER_05 14:40

I I know, but I I was also trying to like be like, you know, I don't care.

unknown 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

But but again, we appreciated what she did there. And if it was Nicole, I would appreciate it. But at the same time, too, I know why the way I have the kitchen laid out, it's laid out in the way that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

And because why I'm the one that's in there cooking.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So when I go to get a spatula, I know it's in this little black thing on the to my left because I'm left-handed.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

So I'm not digging around to look for it. I know that the silver bar drawer is the left of the sink. Is to the yeah, left of the sink, but to my right from the stove. So I can reach in there, grab a spoon, grab a butter knife, uh, grab whatever I s tongs, whatever I stick in there, right? Um I reorganized our spice cabinet recently. But I'm reorganized in a way that makes sense to me so I can find things easier. Easier as I'm fixing supper, right? And so when you go into to want to break and enter into your your young married couple's house, because that's what it is. Let's not sugarcoat this. It's not just mommy and mom. You are invading spice space uninvited.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

It's not your house.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

It's not yours.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

It doesn't matter if you have a key or not. It's not your house. You were not asked to enter that premises. Do not enter.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yes. And really, as parents, and I just read about this in Proverbs today. And I can't remember what the verse was, but it had something to do with um sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. And um and I thought, I immediately thought, you know, mother-in-laws have that stereotype, they have that joke about them that this is just what mother-in-laws do, that's how they are. But honestly, any the father in law can do it, brother-in-laws can do it, sisters-in-laws can do it. But it doesn't really, that's not really the point. The point is sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. But honestly, when it comes to parents, especially, I'm willing to bet Linda was that mom that was always stepping in and fixing things for Josh along the way. I mean, I'm making a lot of assumptions here. And again, we should try and be there for our kids, we should try and help our kids, but we can't fight all their battles for them.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

No, we have to teach them how to fight their own battles. That's really what the proverb is saying when it says to train up your child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. It's it's about training your child on how to fight their own battles.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:00

And it's it's like teaching a child to walk. You're not going to hold their hand forever. You're going, you're holding their hand and slowly releasing your hand so they learn to walk on their own. It's the same way when it comes to fighting your own battles and and and learning how to do life in general. It's not just about salvation, it's about teaching kids how to grow up to be functional adults without mom and dad holding their hand all the time.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

That's right. And I found the Bible verse, by the way. It's Proverbs chapter 26, verse 17. It says, like yanking the ears of a dog, so is one who passes by and gets involved in another person's fight. And so that's kind of what now I'm not saying this was a fight between Amber and Josh, but she stuck her nose in where it doesn't belong, right? Uh and so I think Amber is right to have this conversation about set up those boundaries because not only is it to help protect her and Josh's relationship, it's also helping Linda learn to let to this is a boundary where you can't step into. This is not your house, this is our house.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Yeah. Um, and so that's not your responsibility, so stop making it your responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah. Now, if she was invited in, yeah, that's different. But just to stick your nose in is wrong. So I I really think again. Um, yeah, I didn't like the way Josh responded to that either, because again, he he's kind of putting leaving his wife out to dry.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Um, but yeah, be man up and have an actual conversation with your wife about how you're feeling about this and what you're trying to address. But in the end, in the end, I know he Josh seems like the type of guy that does not like confrontation and he runs from, he just tries to keep the peace.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

But sometimes at least when it comes to him and his mom.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

I think it's him in general.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

But that's just what I'm picking up. But especially, yeah, probably especially to his mom, but I think both kind of both sides of this coin, he's a person that tries to avoid conflict, tries to keep the peace between anybody. But but unfortunately, his mom has disrupted their peace by invading their boundary.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Um, so to kind of re-establish that peace for everyone. Well he what he what he the way he's gonna be now is he just wants this false peace, right? Nobody mad at each other. But sometimes when we set up boundaries, it's gonna make people upset.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Well, and the thing is though, there's already somebody upset.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:24

There is already somebody whose peace has been disrupted, and he is expecting her to be quiet because he doesn't want his peace disrupted. And that's the thing with complacent people.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:38

And I'm just I'm just gonna say it. It it's not about keeping the peace for them, it's about keeping their peace for them. Because as long as there's no conflict that they can see, they can ignore it and and they can feel fine. But the second some the second there's conflict because somebody else has been miserable and shoving it under the rug, and they finally they finally had enough, then suddenly that person's the bad guy. And it's like, no, that person has been pushed to the point that they cannot hold back anymore.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:15

And complacent complacency is the reason why they have been pushed to that point, because somebody has said, I don't care enough about your discomfort to speak up in favor of you.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

And so I would argue that maybe Josh isn't a bad husband, but he's not a good one.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, he's struggling. Yeah. Because I don't know. I think what he needs to remember is he's already chose his side in this. Meaning he when he said I do to Amber, he made his choice. Like he should be standing by her in this moment, not yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

And instead he's going back on his choice. Yeah. So and he's leaving her out.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

And unfortunately, his mom's putting him in that position too, where he's gonna have to make that choice. But that doesn't free Josh up from making the the choice he needs to make.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And so right now, instead of protecting his mom, he needs to move to protect his wife and his family.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

Yeah. So and and you know, I'm just gonna say this because I feel like it's really important. Amber setting boundaries is a way of helping her continue to love Linda.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

Because at this point, she's feeling resentful, she's feeling upset. Linda has already caused disorder in in her family with with Sadie.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

And in her friendship with Heather and um Madison?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:51

I think.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Heather's the mom's name, Madison's the friend's name.

SPEAKER_05 21:55

Yeah. Okay. But she's already caused disruption in the family with their friends.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

And so and and then she comes into their home while they're not home and organizes things that she was not asked to organize and throws away things she was not a that she was not asked to throw away. And so at this point, if I were Amber, I'd be fuming. And honestly, I'm proud of Amber for not saying she's just not welcome in my house anymore. Because that's what I would be doing. But Ginger. So um but so this is this is Amber's way of saying, hey, I still want to love your mom. But if she keeps crossing these boundaries, if she keeps disrespecting my space and my peace and my family, then guess what? I'm not going to love her anymore. And that'll breed even more resentment between her and Josh. It'll breed resentment between Sadie and grandma, Sadie and possibly dad, especially if dad is continuing to just turn a blind eye to grandma crossing lines. Yeah. And and Sadie's gonna grow up looking at at her dad and and kind of being like, does he have a backbone at all?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Right. Now, yeah, before I don't know where it's going, but can so how would you respond in the text message to Amber?

SPEAKER_05 23:31

I would respond to Amber that number one, those that setting boundaries is extremely essential. So no, you're not alone, you do need to set boundaries, and you have my full support. Number two, I would highly recommend marriage counseling at this point.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:51

Because if Josh is not gonna back you, like that's uh that's a major concern, and you guys need to get into counseling right now because and you know, you and I would be able to offer initial cont like at least help in the conversation. Yeah, but I would recommend a licensed therapist who specializes in couples and families.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Um and here's the thing if we don't set the boundary now It's just gonna get worse, it's gonna be a bigger problem down the road.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Yeah. And and honestly, like if Josh continues to just push the blame on to Amber, I would be like, you need to you need to have a serious talk.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

Because this is not okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yep. Um, so now we've we've been talking about boundaries here. Now let's talk about another boundary, something that's important for us to talk about as parents now, because the world we live in is constantly changing, and a lot of that change revolves around technology.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Uh and there's two ways we can deal with technology. We can deal with it by fear and sticking our head in the sand, or we can learn to to embrace it as the tool that it is. Yeah. And work with it. So we're gonna start off here sharing about a real story that happened with Ben.

SPEAKER_05 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Um, so uh Nicole, why don't you share the story? Because you're always better at retelling stories than I am.

SPEAKER_05 25:15

I'm not actually privy enough on this story because you're the one who walked with Ben through it.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Oh, that's true. So uh our son Ben, he's he's got a phone and he he was on I think it was Roblox.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

Yeah, that much I do know.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

I don't know much about it, other than you know, talking to him a little bit about it, trying to pay attention to what games he's playing and stuff like that. But um one day Ben was on there playing, and there just happened to be an older person in the room.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Well, we don't know they were older, but we're assuming.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

We're assuming they were older. We we don't really know. And this person approached him and asked him what his name was, asked him where he lived, asked him for his phone number, you know, things like that. And so Ben.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Um We had already talked with Ben about not sharing personal information.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

We had that talk with him. And so Ben, um you know, Ben's like me. He's going to try and brush you off and brush you away in a polite, joking manner first. So first, Ben was like, my name is Donald Trump. My name is Donald Trump, right? And then after and that didn't work, and then he he said his phone number was 911, and then he gave up some fake made address that I think he said he was from Wakanda. Yeah, something silly like that. So Ben did that first. But that didn't work. The person, this other person, gamer online, kept pressing. So finally, Ben blocked him and reported him, and he come and told and he came and told me.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

And he also told the other kids in the chat, do not share any personal information with this guy.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Like, don't do it at all. But he was like very specific, don't share any information with this guy. He's he's not a good person.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, and so in that moment, Nicole and I were very proud of Ben in that moment. Now, again, we're not proud because that happened, but that happened in that the moment where it did happen, Ben was wise enough, paying attention enough to remember the advice we shared with him, and then come to us with it. And we didn't greet him when he came to us, we didn't greet him with, well, you shouldn't have been on there. We should we didn't greet him with you shouldn't play that game. It was well done, Ben. And then we took he he didn't he uh we took the information he gave us.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

He did take screenshots of the chat too. I was very proud of him for that.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

He thought it had Yeah, and so we took all the stuff he gave, he had him send that stuff to us, and we submit it to the national database for exploited children. Yeah. Again, it might not be much of anything, but if this person is a regular predator and they're getting away with this, um, that person needed to be reported and people, the proper authorities need to get involved. And so Ben took all the necessary steps. So again, we we weren't proud because something bad happened. We were proud because Ben knew what to do when this situation came up.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

And and the reason why Ben knew what to do is because we've had these conversations with him. We're not sticking our head in the sand assuming that he's going to um that he's that he's not going to play these games. I mean, all of his friends play these games.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Instead, we we told him about the risks. We I check his phone quite a bit. I even have like a couple of safety apps on his phone to ensure that he can't do anything too bad. But um, but like I check his phone, I I check his history. He doesn't know how to clear that yet, thank God. And I check his text messages and things to make sure that he's he's being at least decent.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:54

Um but but we do that because we know that technology itself is a tool. Yeah, it's not evil, it's not something that we need to hide our kids from. Yeah, it's something that we need to teach them how to use properly.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

That's right. And here's clearly on this. And we're two pastors telling you this right here, right now. Technology isn't evil.

SPEAKER_05 29:20

Video games are not evil, phones are not evil. The internet is not evil.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yes, they are tools, yes, and tools can build a house or tear it down. Take it, tear it down. It all depends on whose hand the tool is in.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Is it in the hand of somebody that's been trained, been taught how to handle that tool, or is it in the hand of somebody that has no clue what they're doing?

SPEAKER_05 29:42

Yeah. Okay, so like for example, um, the battery cables for a car.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:49

In your hands, they are a tool. In my hands, they will kill my car.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

However, our drill in my hands, it's a tool. In your hands, I don't want to handle it.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

It's a trip to the ER, probably.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Um again, again, the the this is about wisdom and determining how to use again. This is this is also based on age appropriateness, right? And all of us the parents are gonna have a different take and a different way of handling this. And we're not saying one way's better than the other.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

And understand age appropriate is also very relative. Yeah, it's not a set age like it's more maturity appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Because here's the thing, too. Nicole mentioned earlier. Ben goes online, and Ben has had a rough school year this year. If you listen to the first episode of this season, you know, he had AHD, he had to change schools mid-year.

SPEAKER_05 30:41

I mean He dealt with bullying.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Dealt with bullying, and so but in those on those changes, he lost the only time he got to see his friends that he had made at Estel or in the school system was at church group on Thursday. And so this enable these games enabled him to maintain those friendships, to build those memories. And actually, gaming itself is something uh that's cool. Like, I remember sitting in the living room playing video games with my dad, so you can create family memories doing these things.

SPEAKER_05 31:08

Well, and the thing is, is anymore, like there are there are companies now that are using these games to to treat ADHD, to treat anxiety, to help um to help people with um learning disabilities be able to cope in real life.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

So these like and and we're talking like like Minecraft is one that they're using. They're using Roblox, they're using um oh man. Like there was what's like the latest like fantasy game.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

I don't know. But anyways, like I saw it and I've I've actually interacted with people who've used it and they swear by it. And it's like these games are great. They're being used when they're being used as tools.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 32:03

Now, again, they can be used as completely destructive things in the wrong hands, but that's where we as parents come in and we give our children the tools they need to identify when somebody is misusing the game.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

We teach them, we teach them how to respect the technology, both the good and the bad, yeah. How to pay attention. Because again, the danger isn't Minecraft, it's not Roblox, it's not Fortnite. Those are not the problem. The problem is this this these games do allow for your child to be able to interact with strangers, right? These strangers can now suddenly be in the world of your kid.

SPEAKER_05 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

And so you have to prepare them for that.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

But the but that that same danger is right across the street at the playground when you when you take your kid. You just can see it better.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah. So, and again, train your child up the way that they should go. That's this is part of that, right? It's that word I again, I Nicole and I had this conversation the other day. That's again, that's another verse from Proverbs. And that word train isn't about like it's not a teaching thing.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

It's a you well, it is a teaching thing, but it's not a It's not a doing for you thing. It is a it's like if if um a it's like a coach when they're training somebody or training somebody to run a marathon. They can't run the marathon for that person.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

They are helping equip them, they're giving them the tools they need to be able to run the marathon. They're they're you know providing them with the the cardio workouts to build that endurance. They're giving them the weights and the and the the dietary restrictions and things like that. They're but notice they're not doing the they're not doing the diet for the person. They're not doing the weights for the person. They're not they're giving them the tools they need to build up that endurance to run that marathon. And that's what we as parents are supposed to be doing. We're not doing life for our children, we are giving them the tools necessary to live it.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yes. And so, again, we're not ignoring stranger danger, right? Stranger danger is still a real thing. And so, because your kid's going to encounter them, you have to prep them for that, just like you would in any situation, right? Hopefully, you've had conversations about with your kid about what happens when a stranger comes to the door or you or a stranger's calling on the phone, like you know, our policy is if the phone's ringing and you don't recognize the end number, don't answer it. Um if someone's knocking on the door, you don't know who it is, don't answer it. Call mom and dad. Um, things like that. You have the you have those conversations about your kid with your kid about interactions in everyday life. Those same conversations apply online. You just have to talk about it a little bit differently. Again, a stranger online is still a stranger. And just because they played with that person for six months doesn't mean they know them.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Right? Uh they can be friends online, but again, don't share information online. Like that's just a simple rule. Um so understanding who who strangers are is important. Uh so some of the ways we can parent through this is one, know the games that your kids are playing.

SPEAKER_05 35:15

And in order to be able to know the games your kids are playing, you have to be building that safe space for them to be able to talk to you about it without ridicule and without them feeling like they're going to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yeah. And then play games with them occasionally. Because one, you're showing them that this this system is not evil, it's not of the devil, it's not how to get them, but you're also teaching them to respect it, right? And so we've had a lot of family game times where we're playing Mario Kart or Minecraft or Grand Theft Auto, and we've had we've made a lot of memories in those moments.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Uh that may that we all laugh and joke about still. Uh so play with them occasionally. Ask questions. You know, if they talk, they're talking to you about your favorite game. I know it's boring when they're talking to you about their favorite game.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

Especially when it's a game you don't care about.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Don't care about and you've never played. But listen to them about it, learn about it. Um also as a parent, don't only show up in their gaming world when things go wrong. Be present in it when things are right.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Yeah. Actually, one of the one of the ways that we're able to be present, because again, we don't play Roblox, but our kids will regularly be on voice chat with with their friends while they're playing. And so we'll come on the voice chat with our, you know, because our kids are on speakerphone, and we'll just start like trash talking our kids.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yeah. We'll trash talk our kids in front of their friends online.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Occasionally I'll pick on their friends too.

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Yeah. If we know them.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

I don't know. You maybe you.

SPEAKER_05 36:51

Well, if we know that our kids know them personally.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

Like, like, especially Jaden. We we pick on her friends a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

So, but like, again, like, and it and it shows their friends that we're involved too. Like, so that way their friends know that there is an adult watching, there is an adult paying attention to this.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Yeah. And it, I think it kind of helps the content at point too.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah. And again, create a create a home, create an environment for your kids where they know if something weird happens online, they can come and talk to you about it.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

That um that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_05 37:34

Yeah, and teach them to never share personal information, like their address, what school they go to, their phone number, any of their passwords, their personal photos, or anywhere that they might meet this person.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yes, they'll share that information. Just teach them that. And if someone's asking for that, that's not a person they need to be talking to online. No. Uh so that's that's important. Um and then now the other side of this too is your their kids. There's sometimes they are gonna make mistakes. You been got in trouble because he was on YouTube and he wasn't supposed to, and he knows another friend decided they were gonna have a when I say friends, they were they were not friends, they were the opposite of friends, and they were using it to bully each other. So we had to get both parents involved, sit down, and and handle that situation.

SPEAKER_05 38:16

And Ben lost his phone for a while, and he learned the consequences.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Jaden had a scenario where she was showing little little kids videos she shouldn't have been showing them.

SPEAKER_05 38:24

Like when I say it shouldn't be showing them, it's it wasn't like anything like inappropriate, it was just inappropriate for the age level. Well, yeah, I meant like it was it was scary.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Like scary for a four-year-old to be watching. Not scary for like a two a third grader to be watching.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

So we had it we had to sit down and talk with Jaden about one. When you're in church, your phone should be put away. You should be paying attention in church unless you're using it for your Bible app and too.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

Well, that was after a church hour, but Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

But also, you know, you know, know who your audience is, pay attention. So again, open up convert opportunity for us to have a conversation and navigate through that situation with Jaden. And again, she lost her phone for a little bit as a consequence. But but again, we were able to navigate and teach her a valuable lesson. So again, she's not afraid of her phone. She's not afraid of the technology, she's respectful of it.

SPEAKER_05 39:15

And she's not afraid of us seeing her phone. Yeah. Because again.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

That's one of our rules, too, is if one of us as parents asks Ben or Jaden to see their phone.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

They cannot close anything out. They have to hand it directly to us. And if they say hold on, they lose their phone.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yes. And it's effective. Um now do we do we do we abuse that privilege? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_05 39:38

It's usually when I'm kind of notic starting to notice if there's like an attitude issue or if one of them's starting to feel like look a little depressed or whatever. I'm wanting to make sure that it's not anything that they're dealing with on their phones or or dealing with from technology.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Because bullying is very real.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Yeah. And now something important as you're teaching your kids to navigate these online games is there are very three buttons, there are three simple buttons that they need to know. They need to be able to find. The first one is they need to be able to find the block button.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

Yes. They can't that way they can't be contacted by the person that is harassing them, asking for personal information, um, just being inappropriate in general, or just somebody that they don't want to talk to.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah. Uh next button, you said find block. Uh teach them to find the report button. They need to know where the report button is. And so when somebody is the behavior is inappropriate, they can not only block the person but report it to put it to not put it just a stop to it for them, but to help protect other people as well.

SPEAKER_05 40:47

And most games and apps will investigate inappropriate behavior and and they most of them will have that report button. And honestly, if they don't have a report button, it's probably best that your kid not be on it.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah. You tell them this might not be the best game for you.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

And usually if you explain that to your kid.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

As long as like we're referring to the games that actually have like interaction between people.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

And again, the next one is leave. Leave the game. You don't, and and your kid doesn't owe anybody an explanation for that.

SPEAKER_05 41:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

That it's okay to if something feels weird or off, they can leave. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:20

And and that goes outside of technology too.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

Um, we ha also have a rule with our children that if they feel uncomfortable with somebody when they're like asking for hugs or asking for, you know, to to you know, spend time with them and chat. Like they don't have to. It's if they're not comfortable, they are allowed to leave the situation and come get mom and dad.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah. And that's, I think. So tell mom and dad. Yes. That's the last important thing. Tell uh, tell your teach them to tell you. And that means you can't come when they come to you with this, you can't be angry. But you can be angry, but you can't take your anger out on them.

SPEAKER_05 42:02

Yeah. Make sure that they know that whatever emotion that you are displaying is not directed to them.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah. But but the big thing is let them know that you're glad that they came to you with this information. They that you um reward their confidence. Yeah. And that's only gonna build confidence for other things in life when they're running into problems, they'll come and talk to you about it. They'll invite you into it rather than you having to pry your way in.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

And and if your kids come to you with with you know information or or screenshots, save them. Save the screenshots, save whatever information they have. Don't delete anything yet. Um, if someone is acting like they're grooming your child, asking for personal information, being inappropriate, whatever. Report it to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Cybertip Line.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

And contact local law enforcement if there's any chance that this person is local.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah. And especially if it is immediate danger involved, goes directly. But the thing is, you might think, well, that might be overkill. What if it, you know, that's not your job to decide?

SPEAKER_05 43:11

They will investigate it, and if it is overkill, they'll let it go. But if it's not, you might save a life.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

And it it might not even be your kid's life because maybe your kid is like Ben, where they know to report these things and everything, so it's not that big of a deal uh for them. But what about that little five-year-old that doesn't know?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yes. And so you're protecting, you're teaching your child not only protect themselves but protect other people too. And yeah. I kind of a story, it's not really related to technology, but it kind of fits this. Um, I was recently, or a couple years ago, I was cutting the church grass, and there was a girl, I'm gonna assume she was 20, she somewhere around that age, and she was jogging through town from Urban into Ravenna, and all of a sudden she runs up the side of our sanctuary to where the ramp is, runs up it, and ducks down where she. You can't see the way our sign situated, you can't see behind it from that position on the road. So that was that was her. I just happened to be mowing right there when that happened. So I killed the mower and I was like, Is everything okay? And she shared that there, you know, she was jogging the same truck past her like five times. So it made her nervous. And so I was like, I'm completely understood. Staying here to feel safe. You need to go inside, we'll let you inside. Um but she stayed outside and then she felt, you know, and then she decided to go run finish her run up to her mom's house. And I kind of offered to follow behind her closely, and I think she was okay with that. Um but later that day I wrestled with for a little bit, do I need to report this or not? And I went to our our local police officer and shared it with him, and he was very grateful because I said the more I thought I was like, if I don't report this, the details that she gave me, and some other person goes missing, I just and the cops have to go that the it's gonna take the police that much longer to find this person because they don't have anything to go off of. And so that's the same thing here online we're talking about. You may not think it's a whole lot a big deal, but but it might be. You don't know. So and it's not our job to find out, it's our job to turn it into the authorities or the people that know how to investigate this and let them do their job. Yeah, they will determine that. Now we'll we're gonna include the the the hotline for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the hotline or in the in the in the show notes. We're gonna include that hotline number for you to be able to use if you need it. Um I'm not sure where you're listening from, but just make sure you know your local law enforcement numbers and ways to contact them to share this information with them.

SPEAKER_05 45:32

And if you are international, then um you'll you might need to look up your own national tip lines and things like that and find out if if your if your uh country has has a tip line. And if not, just really rely on your local law enforcement.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Because in the end, our goal isn't to scare the kids. We don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

It's to give them tools, it's to prepare them.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Right.

SPEAKER_05 45:57

And parents, when your child comes and says something weird happened online, don't begin with what were you doing?

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Instead, begin with, thank you for telling me.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

Yeah. That oh man, that is stop blaming the victim. Yes, your child in that moment when somebody's being weird with them online, your child is being is a victim there.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Do not blame the victim.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Thank them for telling you.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yes. And again, as you investigate, as you have the conversation, you might find out your kid did something wrong, but but that's not what we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

Don't assume the worst.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Don't assume the worst.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

Um not about your kid.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Again, if the kids think they're if the kids think they're immediately gonna get in trouble, they will hide everything. But if they know mom and dad are safe, they'll come to you. They'll share with you. Um so be ready.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

Um So, yeah, so technology isn't going away. Um, I I don't know why we seem why we seem to think that it it will.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, I'm sure back when the industrial revolution started, there were all kinds of Christians like, oh, this isn't gonna last long.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

When the telephone came out, this isn't gonna last long.

SPEAKER_05 47:15

But we we we get so caught up on banning phones and banning computers and banning internet access and all that stuff. It's not going anywhere. So it's important for us as parents, as teachers, as Sunday school teachers, as church leaders, to raise up our children with the tools they need to navigate this stuff. So so technology isn't going away, neither are online friendships, neither are online dangers.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yes. So that means our job isn't raising fearful kids. We don't want them petrified of everything. We don't want them, you know, we we want that we want to be able to raise up wise children, what ones that know how to think for themselves, know how to navigate things when when these situations happen.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

Yeah. And you know, this week and and uh the last couple of months, we've been really proud of one little boy, or you know, our little Ben. Um who knew exactly what to do when somebody was weird.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yes. Again, I mean we we don't we never want our kids to encounter something like that or encounter dangers of this world. We want to protect them as much as we can, but that that's an impossible task.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Uh they're they're going to encounter something at some point along the way. Yeah. So our goal is to raise children who know what to do when that happens.

SPEAKER_05 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

So until next time.

SPEAKER_05 48:40

Grace and peace.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Church, cheese in hand, copying mugs. Our lights held together by grace and a few hugs. Stay set, cheap stuff, miss we said. It's not about ladders, it's me and you. Serving the chain domain, eight ones and chains. Last lines and calendars and holy routines. Love it, face with the side, for six, full, five, two.