Take the Quiz with Guest Contestants Jose Luis Navarro and Dr. Holly Blair

This month we’re all being sent to the principal’s office! Play alongside educator-leaders Dr. Holly Blair and Jose Luis Navarro as we ask questions about the latest and not-so-greatest education news. 

Laugh some, learn some, and grab a few nuggets of wisdom you can pass off as your own in our world-famous quiz games like Surfing the Education Headlines, and Education Data Points of the Month. Plus, test how many famous school principals you know from TV and movies in a special bonus game. 

Quiz topics range from “Everyone is welcome here” banners, education funding freezes, and the Ten Commandments in schools, to college admissions, school board elections, and touchless salad bars in school cafeteria. Holly and Jose also offer terrific insights into the world of educational leadership. Listen closely – or Holly may sit you down in her office rocking chair and give you “the look.”

“If you’re an educator looking for some laughs, a sense of ‘I feel so seen’ via comedy and real talk on news and policy, THIS is the podcast for you!”

“I laughed a lot as I learned – this is a fun way to catch up on significant education news – and the insights from the guests are first-rate.”

ABOUT OUR GUESTS

Dr. Holly Blair is an educator, speaker, college professor and more. Currently, she serves as Executive Director of the Maine Principals Association, where she influences educational leadership on a statewide scale. She has served as an elementary and middle school-level teacher and principal, including meeting the unique challenges of being a teaching principal in some of Maine’s most remote and under-resourced schools. She’s also the author of You Are Number One – The Science and Reasons Behind Why We Remember Some of Our Teachers, Forever. 

Jose Luis Navarro served for over 25 years in the Los Angeles education system in a variety of positions, including spearheading innovative initiatives to help turn around low-performing schools. He is National Board Certified and was honored as a California Teacher of the Year and Los Angeles Times Latino Educator of the Year. In 2011, he became the founding principal of the Social Justice Humanitas Academy, which earned several prestigious awards, including the National Community School Award and the Teacher Powered Schools National Award for Academic Excellence. He’s also a UC Distinguished Teacher and an adjunct professor at CSU Dominguez Hills, and he serves as a speaker and coach. More information at https://www.jlnavarro.com

ABOUT OUR HOSTS

Alex Kajitani is a California Teacher of the Year and author of several books for educators, including Owning It, and You're A Teacher Now. He is an inspiring and engaging speaker, the Rappin' Mathematician, coach, and creator of programs for students and teachers, including Multiplication Nation, Math Success Camp, and the "New Teacher Success" video series.

Paul Richman is a Grammy and Academy Award-winning artist who...Wait, hold on -- that's someone else. Actually, Paul is an all-purpose education policy guy who has served as a leader for several statewide education associations, coalitions and policy initiatives. He also produced the "Adventures in Ed Funding" and "Budgeting for Educational Equity" podcasts, and currently serves as an executive producer of the Inside California Education statewide TV series.  

ABOUT OUR MUSIC

Tommy Dunbar is a musician, songwriter, and producer best known as the founder and lead guitarist of the power pop band The Rubinoos. His music can be heard in many films and TV shows, including Revenge of the Nerds, Bachelor Party, Sex Education, Lizzie McGuire. 

Transcript

Some of the Above – The Education News Comedy Quiz

Opening theme music

Student Announcer:

It's time for the Some of the Above Education News Comedy Quiz. The show that's evidence-based and proven to restore summer learning loss. And now here are your hosts, Alex Kajitani and Paul Richman. 

 Alex Kajitani:

Hey, and thanks to our great student announcer and also a big shout out to our in-show band, Tommy Dunbar and the Teacher's Pets -- and a big welcome and happy summer to all of you, our listeners. I'm Alex Kajitani, education speaker, author, and California Teacher of the Year. And this is the show where we invite you to play along with two special guests as we ask questions that help you get informed and laugh a bit about our ever-changing world of education. And here beside me, as always, is my co-host an all-purpose education policy guy, Paul Richman. 

Paul Richman:

Hey, thanks Alex. It's great to see you and welcome to all of our listeners as well. And I want to mention, too, that on this show we will ask some tough questions, but unlike U.S. Senator Alex Padilla, so far we have not been wrestled to the ground and handcuffed by federal agents. 

Alex:

Well, you know, there’s always tomorrow, Paul. In the meantime, let's meet our two special guest contestants.  I am absolutely psyched because this month we welcome two highly accomplished educators and leaders from two sides of the country. 

First, she's the executive director of the Maine Principals Association, where she influences educational leadership on a statewide scale. Before that, she was an elementary and middle school teacher and principal in some of Maine's most remote and under-resourced schools. She's also the author of a great book that explores the neuroscience behind why we remember certain teachers. It's Dr. Holly Blair. Welcome, Holly! 

Holly Blair:

Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. I think that this podcast is great. It's fun, it's informative, and I get to hear from colleagues all across the country. So thank you very much.

Alex:

And joining Holly today, he's the founding principal of the Social Justice Humanitas Academy in Los Angeles. He's also now a coach and consultant and the guy you call when you need help turning around a low performing school -- and, he's a fellow California teacher of the year. It's Jose Luis Navarro.  

Jose Luis Navarro:

Hey, Alex, Hey Paul – and Holly, great to meet you. It's wonderful to be here. 

Paul:

Welcome to both of you. And for me, it's also a thrill to meet you both -- and we're so grateful for to you for being on the show. You're both educators and leaders with lots of great experience and knowledge. So we're excited to hear more from you. And I have to ask upfront, are you feeling ready for the quiz? 

Holly:

Do it!

Jose Luis:

I heard the first podcast. I'm a little nervous. Let's get keep expectations a little bit low. Okay.? They were hard questions. Holly. I'm telling you....

Paul:

Well, I think the two of you are up for it.  

Alex:

All right, it's time to dive into our first quiz game, the one we call Surfing the Headlines. Hit it. Tommy.

Surfing theme music

Paul:

So, for this game, Alex is going to ask each of you a question about an education news story that made waves. Correct answers are worth one point unless Alex or I arbitrarily decide they should be worth more because the way today's show works, we're gonna give away points the way Congress gives away tax cuts -- to those who need them the least. Also important at the end of the show, the contestant with the fewest points has to come back and join us again in the future. So if you want to be done with us for good, well, you have to earn the most points, otherwise we invite you back. Got it?

Both:

Got it.

Alex:

Well, there have certainly been a lot of wave-making headlines out of Washington DC lately, and we will get to some of those, but we're not going to start there because, well, not everyone has to prioritize a certain someone's agenda. 

So Jose, this first Surfing the Headlines question is for you. According to a recent analysis, the toughest major to be accepted into in the entire University of California system is what? 

Jose Luis:

Structural engineering? 

Alex:

Well, you know, it's not engineering or computer science, but I will say it does involve working long shifts, helping people feel better. 

Jose Luis:

Ooh, medical doctor? 

Alex:

Keep going. You're almost there. 

Jose Luis:

Obstetrician? I'm not sure …

Alex:

Who are often the really helpful ones when you go to the ER or you see a doctor? 

Jose Luis:

A nurse.

Alex:

That's right. You got it!

Paul:

There you go.

Jose Luis:

All iit took was 18 tries. That's awesome. I'm good.  

Paul:

You still get a point, Jose Luis. 

Jose Luis:
I told you Holly, it's hard man. (Holly laughs.) 

Alex:

Well, you are correct. It is nursing. According to the San Francisco Chronicle, just 1% of the nearly 6,000 yearly applicants to the UC’s undergraduate nursing programs get in the door. That's 118 nursing students out of nearly 12,000 who applied. So, no joke: it is actually tougher to get into a UC nursing program than it is to get accepted to an Ivy League school like Yale. When asked about the difficulty of just getting into a nursing program, one applicant said the pressure is wayyyy beyond 120 over 80. 

Paul:

And just to add on this story, too: the main reason why the UC's are turning away 99% of the applicants who want to earn a good living and do something meaningful like save lives? It's money. Specifically nursing programs cost a lot to operate because they require small class sizes, expensive computerized mannequins, hands-on placements in hospitals. So students, here's a pro tip from me: if you're applying to college and you want to increase your chances of getting in, consider majoring in a subject that contributes less to society like political science. That's what I did. 

Alex:

Yeah. Then you could end up hosting a monthly quiz podcast. 

Paul:

Well, co-hosting Alex.  

Music.

 Alex:

Okay, Holly, our next Surfing the Headlines question is for you. Earlier this year, 16 and 17-year-old students in Newark, New Jersey were allowed to do what for the first time?

Holly:

They were allowed to vote for school board members. 

Alex:

You know your stuff. Absolutely! They can now vote in local school board elections. It's the first time anyone under 18 has been able to vote in New Jersey. It's actually part of a growing movement to give students more voice. About a dozen cities in the U.S. now allow it. And hey, quick bonus question for either of you. Do you know which state it started in?

Jose Luis:

California? 

Alex:
No. I'll give you a clue. The state's name begins with an M…

Holly:
M?

Alex: 

Ir rhymes with Ferryland. 

Holly:

Maryland!

Alex:

That's right. It's Maryland. Tacoma Park, Maryland was actually the first U.S. city to lower the voting age in 2013. Eight other cities in Maryland also now let 16- and 17- year olds vote. And besides Newark, students in Berkeley and Oakland, California voted for the first time last fall. A rallying cry for students in this movement has been, “No decisions about us, without us.” 

Paul:

Yeah. And you have to think, too, that kids should be really good at filling out their ballots, right? I mean, after so many years of practice we put them through taking those fill in the bubble standardized tests? 

Alex:

Jose, you were a social studies teacher, right? 

Jose Luis:

Yes, yes. 

Alex:

Thoughts on letting students vote? 

Jose Luis:

You know, I feel like anytime I go to a dinner party, it's kind of like a doctor. Everybody goes, Hey, what is this? What is this? Well, everybody always asks me because I'm the educator, What do you think we need in schools? If we just did what, Jose? And I feel like if we did a little more critical thinking, if we just taught critical thinking, because regardless if you're red or blue, conservative, liberal -- if you just thought about it more. And I think about the fact that Fox News has done to our parents' brains what our parents thought video games were gonna do to ours. It's really kind of loaded down for them and it's really spoon-fed them and not allowed them to critically think. I think our students will steer our education system and how we train people. Everyone's concerned, well, they're [students] easily influenced -- as if adults aren't. 

I think we actually might see a, I'm very hopeful that we're gonna see a tide change, that there'll be a lot more critical thinking, a lot less bubbling like you were mentioning, Paul. Less of the standardized test [and] a lot more of the critical thinking because when you look at a ballot, it really matters. I think it's going to be a very important thing. If you're going to give students voice, you've gotta give 'em voice. You can't just give it lip service. 

Paul:

Yeah. Well said, Jose Luis -- except now I’m gonna cross Fox News off our list of potential sponsors for the podcast. 

Jose Luis:

My bad. Sorry about that. 

Alex:

Holly, what do you think? Would it work out on the East Coast, students voting out in Maine?

Holly:

Absolutely. It would absolutely work. And I would hope that they would do that. I mean, more and more, local school boards actually have students on the school board. Even the State Board of Education has two student reps. So, student voice is definitely needed -- and I think that having them (them being the students), having the opportunity to share their opinion, share what they want versus what adults tell them that they want, I think is significant, right? And, this is an opportunity for kids to hear from the people that may be making decisions on their behalf, and they might have some influence on that. So I I think it's great. 

Music.

Alex:

All right, Jose Luis, this next question is for you. Idaho’s Attorney General Raul Labrador recently issued a legal opinion stating that…

Jose Luis:

False (laughter). Go ahead, I'm sorry… 

Alex:

Let me try that one more time. (laughter).

Paul:

You threw him off.

Jose Luis:

Well, you said Raul and and and Idaho. I didn't believe you. Go ahead...(Laughter) 

Jose Luis:

Sorry.

Alex:

All right, let me try that again. (Laughter). Idaho's Attorney General Raul Labrador recently issued a legal opinion stating that banners in Idaho public school classrooms, which say “Everyone is welcome here” are what?

Jose Luis:

They're banned. 

Alex: 

That is right. They are illegal In his state. The Attorney General was asked to provide guidance to schools for implementing Idaho's new law house bill 41 that went into effect July 1st. The new statute forbid school employees from displaying flags or banners “that show opinions, emotions, beliefs, or thoughts about politics, economics, society, faith or religion” -- terms so vague that the Idaho Department of Education asked the Attorney General to clarify it for school leaders. 

Jose Luis:

Something as simple as everybody is welcome. That breaks my heart. When you think of DEI, the idea of diversity is a good thing. Equity, don't we all want inclusion? I want your voice included as well, whether you agree with me or not. But ultimately, I want everybody to belong. So “Everybody's welcome here” being banned? That, that literally breaks my heart because of what I truly believe in. If people feel safe, if they feel welcomed, they perform better. 

Paul:

I have to admit, I actually, I hadn't heard about this story until just recently, even though it first got national attention back in March. 

Alex:

Ah, well, (laugh) Paul, that's 'cause you need to be getting more of your news from social media. 

Paul:

I guess so. I still read papers. But anyway, for those of you like me who hadn't been tracking this: in March, there was a teacher, Sarah Inama who refused to remove the, everyone is welcome here. Banner that she had posted in her classroom in the West Ada school district in Meridian, Idaho, Meridian, Idaho, even after administrators told her it violated district policy. The sign includes, and you may want to sit down for this 'cause it's truly subversive, an image of 10 raised hands in different colors ranging from dark brown to pale pink underneath the “Everyone is welcome here” wording. So it's those raised hands. It, it's those raised hands that have the district and Idaho's Attorney General. So up in well arms.  

Alex:

Well, you know, as, as part of the AG’s opinion, he also claimed that the teacher began displaying the signs in her class in 2017. However, she told Idaho ed news.org that she wasn't even a teacher in 2017, and that she didn't put the sign up until 2020 or 2021. 

Jose Luis:

Holly, is that an issue in Maine? Like literally like this people, this freaked out about e equality or equity? 

Holly:

Yes. Well, yes and no. Maine is an asylum state. And so when this, when we had people from other countries start coming to Maine, they were very much accepted and welcomed. And you actually, one of the big pushes in education, and I'm sure other professions, was they wanted to have teachers and administrators in front of kiddos that looked like them, that had a similar background to them, right? To help them feel welcome and understood. And so that's been the push. That's been the move. So then when all of a sudden, a year ago it just changed and now it's bad and you can't advertise and you can't look for, and you can't encourage -- and unfortunately it’s some of those kiddos that are the most vulnerable that are really getting hurt the most. And that's what's not, okay. 

Paul:

This just in, too:  I was actually just handed this alert. Not to be outdone by all the ridiculousnous in Idaho, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has announced that henceforth, the letters D, E and I will be removed from all alphabets in classrooms across his state. When asked to comment, one elementary teacher remarked, “Mmm, that's not such a "goo ‘a." (Laughter.)

Holly:

Well then what, what's Florida gonna be then? 

Jose-Luis:

Flo?

Alex:

For those of you at home who, like me, who might not have got that one the first time around, I just realized if you take the letters d, e and i out of the alphabet, all that's left of a good idea is just "goo ‘a." 

Paul:

Come on, Alex, keep up. 

Alex:

I like to surround myself with good people. That's, that's how I get through. That's how I’ve always gotten through. 

Paul:

With goo' people. 

Music.

Alex:

Speaking of good people. Holly, this last surfing headline is for you: 10 Republican U.S. senators recently signed a letter encouraging the release of more than $6 billion for schools that the Trump administration has done what to?

Holly:

I would have to say, oh gosh, there's so many options. Cutting funding for technology?

Alex:

Close enough. The answer is withheld.  

Holly:
Withheld.

Alex:
The administration has withheld this funding that schools and states were counting on receiving July 1 -- although we would've also accepted as correct answers, the terms impoundment, froze, paused, clawed back, or unnecessarily and improperly screwed with.

Holly:

I would say cut off (laughs). That's just me in Maine. I'm just saying. 

Alex:

I mean, you have to hand it to this administration. They manage to expand my vocabulary daily. It's like a word of the day calendar with 365 synonyms for wiggling out of commitments. 

Paul:

So, just to fill this story in a bit more for our listeners and being the policy geek I am: $6.8 billion was approved by Congress and signed off on by this president in March of this year as part of a bipartisan budget continuing resolution. And that was all supposed to go out to schools by July 1. But with the funds now being impounded, school districts across the nation have been forced to make layoffs and cancel before and after school programs as well as academic enrichment, professional development, services for English learners. and migrant and adult education programs. 

Alex:

Yeah. But you know, to her credit, Secretary of Education Linda McMahon jumped into action just yesterday and announced that in lieu of the withheld billions in funding, the Department will immediately be sending all eligible school districts a new limited edition commemorative coin set.  

Paul:

Those coins are very nice.

Alex:

Well, this is very much an evolving news story. 23 states sued in federal court over what they say is the unconstitutional freezing of the funding. Meanwhile, the administration partially relented and released $1.4 billion of the funds that schools had planned on for summer school because, well, it turns out, it's already summer. And, even as I speak, things have evolved some more. The Department of Education now says it plans to soon release all of the remaining, previously frozen funding – although my advice to schools is to wait until that check from the feds actually clears.

Holly:

Absolutely. And it's also kind of, it messes with your mind, right? So, one day the money's not there and then all of a sudden, Oh, it is, and then, oh, it's gone again. And well, no, we'll give you some of this, but we're gonna take this. It's very difficult to try to plan forward on any professional development, any learning, any materials. I mean, it's just difficult at this point in time.  

Music.

Paul:

Well, you have survived the first game. Our next game is one we call Education Data Points of the Month. And we actually have a new theme song to roll out for this game.

Education Data Points of the Music theme music.

Alex:

Man, that is really catchy. Can we hear that again? You’re going to be singing that later.

Paul:

For sure, for sure. All right. I'm going to give each of you a number and three options, and you have to guess what that number or data point actually represents. So, Holly, we'll start with you. The first data point question is, 16%.  Is 16% 

A)    The percentage of teachers who said in a survey they intended to leave their jobs in 2025. 

B)     Is it b, the percentage of teachers who said that after teaching all day, they had driven for Uber or Lyft at night within the last 12 months? Or is it 

C)     16% -- the percentage of math teachers who said that they have Googled how to do a particular math lesson while they were teaching it during class? 

Holly:

I would say C. 

Paul:

You're gonna go with the math teachers?

Holly:

I think I'm gonna go with the math teachers. 'cause I'm thinking the first two, a little low. 

Paul:

Well, it actually is A, Holly. It's 16% of teachers said they intended to leave their job according to a Rand State of the American Teacher Survey. 

Holly:

Oh. And that, you know what that reality is, I thought that was higher. I thought, 

Paul:

Yeah. Well, believe it or not, this, this represents some positive news over the past surveys. So it's actually down from 22% who said they intended to leave in 2024. 

Holly:

Good. I'm glad I'm wrong. (laughs). 

Paul:

No. So I, I am curious, uh, both of you started as, as teachers. Did either of you have a moment when you were young teachers where you thought to yourself, I've gotta get out of this profession, gotta get out of education?

Holly:

(Laughs).  The first time I was told, I'm gonna sue you. (Laughs.) didn't know how to deal with that <laugh>. Um, I would say for me early on, no. I was actually very lucky with my teaching experience. Um, you know, I had very supportive administrative team. I had very supportive community. I had very supportive kids. Um, this was, I mean, we're talking 30 years ago, right? So, it was definitely different then. But I would never say in my early years of teaching, I didn't have a moment of, I need to get out. Now. What am I doing? That's a whole other question. (laughs). But I need to get out. 

Jose Luis:

You know, I, I was, um, three weeks in on my first, first year teaching. I spoke about this recently. Um, I was, uh, I gave my kids a test and 90% of my kids, 95% of my kids were Latino, but 90% of 'em couldn't find Mexico on a map. The vast majority of 'em were Mexican in Sylmar. And, um, when I went to my mentor teacher, uh, he, long story short, he just said, Jose, and he wanted to help me. He was doing the best he could, but he said, Jose, you can't make chicken salad outta chicken shit. And I was, I wasn't - he was looking, he was looking to give me absolution -- and instead I was angered. And I think that was the turning point. It was three weeks into my first year. I, I, I think I could have taken that absolution and wrote it out for next 30 years and retired. I could say I'm absolved, it's their fault. But I was one of those kids. And so I never saw it. I was always fueled. Um, three years later, I became national board certified. Alex and I were California Teachers of the year. And I just kept fighting, just kept fighting, all along. And people began to, to notice that, um, I couldn't do everything, but I could do something.

Paul:

That's great. Well, we, we are so grateful, and I know the students in both of your states are grateful that you stuck with teaching and education (laughs). 

Um, I do have one last item to add onto this particular story. Um, while the overall trend is declining, according to the survey, Black teachers were significantly more likely than white teachers to report that they were intending to leave education in 2025. Um, are we still even allowed to talk about data and disparities by race and ethnicity anymore? 

Alex:

Well, you know, Paul, I'm not sure that's such a goo ‘a <laugh>. Hey, I got it. Thank you, <laugh>. 

Jose-Luis:

Oh my God. 

Paul:

Nice. Alex, 

Jose Luis:

I don't know if I got respect for you on that one, Alex, or I lost respect for you. I don't know, <laugh>. I don’t know if I gained or lost, I’m not sure. 

Alex:

I’ll take any sort of movement at that point. 

Paul:

<Laughs>. Allright, Jose-Luis. Well, the next data point is for you.

Jose:

Okay

Paul:

And it is 1400. Is is this: 

The number of employees the Supreme Court said the US Department of Education could move forward in laying off? 

Is it b) the number of pies that students at Jensen High School in Ann Arbor, Michigan were allowed to throw at their teachers as a reward for dramatically increasing their test scores? 

Or is it C) 1400 Alex's score on the SAT?

Jose Luis:

<laugh>? Well, I'm gonna go with a. There's no way Alex got a 1400 SAT <laugh>. 

Alex:

Hey, hey, I certainly did not get into Yale or Nursing. That is for sure. <laugh>. 

Jose Luis:

I’m gonna I'm gonna say 1400, uh, employees at the California or at the, uh, department of Education were let go.

Paul:

That is absolutely correct. Sadly, it's a, the number of employees the Supreme Court ruled could be laid off or actually read, laid off by the Department of Dismantling education after a U.S. district judge had previously paused the action. So, I have to be honest, when I, when I first heard this news, I was of course, first and foremost sad for all the department staffers, but I'm also concerned there's now 1400 more people who may be starting education related podcasts. <laugh>, 

Alex:

That's, I dunno that, ooh, that's a lot of competition. You know, they, they may start podcasts, Paul, but they'll never have Tommy Dunbar and the teacher's pets for their in show band. <laugh>. 

Paul:

That’s right. 

Holly:

Not a fun fact. But, but about that, that 1400 – I was actually on Capitol Hill, um, in the Department of Education when they found out that at midnight, half of them weren't gonna have a job. Um, that was rough. And then walking through the halls that next day, of course they had the next day, they only had one day to move out and, uh, to walk through those halls and just see people moving, it was, it was absolutely surreal. That was, yeah, that was, that was a rough day, for sure.

Paul:
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Jose Luis:

I think it's, um, again, it's emblematic of how much people don't understand education and how just how important it is that you could just lay off teachers, you could lay off the Department of Education and it won't make a difference. I think it's very shortsighted, but I think it's very much a symbol of how our country feels about education in general. We don't understand it. And it's because I had a teacher, therefore I can teach -- just 'cause I went to the doctor. I mean, I could be a Doctor (Paul laughs), but everybody, everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks that it's just easy. And what I get summers off, and it's just such a misunderstanding that I really feel like this is the time where teachers need to, to need to be loud. Educators need to be loud, and they need to be heard, and they need to make themselves, uh, defensible. Uh, they need to be very good at what they do. I mean, they gotta be rock solid -- as if they weren't already. 

Music.

Alex:

All right. Holly and Jose, Luis, you are both doing great. Paul, what's our quiz score so far? 

Paul:

Okay. The score so far is Jose Luis three and Holly three. However, we actually just received a letter moments ago from the Department of Education advising us to impound all previously approved points until a further review. So for now, the score reverts back to zero, zero. Sorry, folks. 

Alex:

Okay, well let's move on to our next game then, so that they can earn some more points. Paul. 

This game is called, Which is More, and it's very easy to play. I'll give you two items and you just have to say which one of them there is more of, Holly, we're gonna start with you this time.

Holly:

Right.

Alex:

Which is more, the percentage of Chicago public school principals who said that what would most improve their impact as a principal is more time to devote to instructional leadership or the percent of principals who said more financial resources. So is it more time or more money that would most improve their impact 

Holly:

More time. 

Alex:

You are correct! 

Paul and Alex:

Yeah! 

Alex:

Principals said more time to devote to instructional leadership would most improve their impact. This was the top-rated answer at 27% according to the Chicago Public Schools Annual Survey of Principal Satisfaction. Coming in second in the survey, 19% said additional financial resources. By the way, 7% of principals said that spending less time completing surveys would improve their impact. (Laughter.) Jose, Holly, where do you fall on this? More time, more money, something else? 

Holly:

Oh, I'm absolutely more time. Absolutely. I, I, I have spent the majority of my professional career working in high poverty schools. I had to go into everything knowing that I go in with it, with the mindset that I have no money to, to do whatever. So what can I do to make the most impact? And that was whether I was a teacher or I was an administrator. And it was, it was time -- and it was working with the teachers, it was working with the kids, it was working with the community -- whatever I could do local businesses to help those kiddos and help those teachers with instructional leadership. And then, and then from there, it just went to, um, it just spread out. But it, it was definitely more time. Now, money would be nice, but you can buy the best program in the world, but if you don't have the instructional piece behind it, it's just gonna sit on a shelf. So that's why I think that. 

Music.

Alex:

All right, Jose, this next one is for you, which is more the number of states that have passed laws requiring that the 10 Commandments be displayed in all public school classrooms, or the number of states that require the US Constitution to be posted in classrooms. So is it more commandments or more constitutions? 

Jose Luis:    

I would say more commandments -- more states have passed legislation wanting more and more 10 Commandments posted, rather than the Constitution. 

Alex:

And you are correct. More states require the 10 Commandments to be displayed. [Trumpets] Three states have now passed laws. Louisiana was the first in 2024, followed by Arkansas and Texas this year. The new laws are already being aggressively challenged in court because, oh yeah, thou shalt not treat the separation of church and state as optional. Meanwhile, to the best of our layoff depleted research team's knowledge, only one state, Arizona expressly requires that a copy of the Constitution be displayed in classrooms in grades seven through 12. The Arizona law also insists that the Constitution be legible and manufactured in the U.S., which are nice touches. The frame, however, can be manufactured in China. (laughter). 

Jose Luis:

That's awesome. I feel, I feel like I always put the Constitution up in my class, uh, regardless of my politics, because I thought it was, I always thought it was a beautiful document. I always liked the fact it could be amended. Um, which, you know, people always talk about the Constitution can't be changed. Yes, they're called amendments. It can be changed. And I love that about it. And I love the fact that the people who made it weren't perfect. 10 commandments are, um, that's personal. That's something I don't want anybody teaching my children -- my morals, values. I, I want to teach that. So I think that's, I think it's interesting as a principal and then as a teacher, you could always find my, the Bill of Rights and, and the Constitution in my classroom. Uh, it had nothing to do with my politics. It had to do with my, my job as a, as I felt a teacher. 

Holly:

It amazes me. So I teach, I teach, um, school law as a graduate course for administrators. And every year the, the separation of church and state that there is less and less separation as we're going. It's, it's amazing. 

Paul:

Hey, one last thing too. I also understand that several Texas legislators have also now introduced a bill that will require a 16 by 20-inch poster in every class that depicts the three main fossil fuels. 

Alex:

Ooh. I I wonder if they'll be able to say, “All fossil fuels are welcome here.” (Laughter). 

Music.

Paul:

And welcome back to the Some of the Above Education News Comedy Quiz, and let's hear it for our in show band, Tommy Dunbar and the Teacher's Pets. Yeah!

Alex:

Go, Tommy!

Paul:

In just a bit, our guest contestants will take on our world famous, true, false or what Challenge <laugh> <laugh>. But first, this is one of my favorite parts of the show where we get to learn more about our guests. So, Jose Luis, let's start with you. And you served for many years as a classroom teacher, and then you became the principal of an innovative community school in Los Angeles. So tell us a bit more about the shift that you made and also the work of that school. 

Jose Luis:

You know, I was, uh, I, I was a teacher, and I just thought, what if, since I don't have all the time in the world, what if my students were reading All Quiet on Western Front while I taught about World War I instead of me doing both. And I talked to an English teacher and an English teacher said, I'll, I'd love to work with you on that. And that was two teachers; we started the Humanitas Academy. It grew into a whole school. But I, I just, I had this realization, I think it was like in 2003, I just said, uh, until we meet all of our students' needs, they're gonna continue to fail. And then I started reading about Maslow's hierarchy of needs – this idea that people are not broken, their needs, needs aren't being met.  So let's meet their needs and then they can reach self-actualization. We formed our whole school based on the idea that we will achieve self-actualization. That vision and mission still sits there today. I haven't been at the school for about six years. It's still there today, uh, but the idea of, um, bringing in the community partners was just, it was a non, it didn't, it just absolutely made sense to me. It was a natural next step was, I cannot do everything. So let's leverage the assets of my community. So I, I began leveraging, uh, my community resources to improve student achievement. And it worked. We were the highest performing school in Los Angeles. We were the only non-magnet school that had a 99% graduation rate and a 99% A through G matriculation rate. A through G matriculation was the, uh, the classes you need to get into college. So, I used my, as a principal to bring in my community resources and, um, we now it, now it's second, it's common. It's commonplace. Now, now it's actually policy – Community schools are actually a policy. Anyways, I I, that's a long answer to your question (laughs). 

Paul:

Yeah. Uh, I mean, it is a terrific school and, and you've earned some accolades for, well deserved for your role in it. Um, so, Holly, you also started your career as a teacher before you became a principal at a young age. What was that like making the shift to leading an entire team of educators and staff for the first time? 

Holly:

Actually, it, it wasn't that bad. And this is why: because I was a teacher for three years and then I became, um, a teaching principal. And so I was still able to teach while learning how to do the leadership role. I was, I was 27 years old and I was a teaching-principal in a very small, very, very small rural school in Maine, um, that was literally 30 miles from the nearest gas station, grocery store, the whole nine yards. Um, the, and the whole school, pre-K to eight had 13 kids. So I was 27 years old being called the Schoolmarm and (laughs), I thought it was hilarious, right? Brought me back to Little House on the Prairie Days and, and, uh on my birthday, they, the whole town actually threw me a potluck. So, I mean, that was, that was really neat. That was unique. But the teaching-principal piece made me realize, you know, how important it is to stay in the classroom. And it allowed me to move around the state. So I was from very rural Rooster County, went to very rural Washington County, went to very urban, um, down in Cumberland, which was, you know, uh, very affluent, which was completely different. Um, and I moved from that to the highest poverty elementary school in the state. So yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell. And then when I got done, I was able to move into the Maine Principals Association where I literally get to work with every building administrator in the entire state. So I'm very fortunate. 

Paul:

That's great. And so, you know, many people, as you know, regard being principal as the single toughest job in education. And that was before principals had to worry about things like ICE raids, impounded funding, evacuating campuses during wildfires, mask mandates, AI, et cetera. So just wondering, why in the world would anyone want to be a school principal these days?  

Holly:

My opinion? I think it's the best job in the world. I absolutely do. It's, it's the job that allows me to work with kids. It allows me to work with teachers. Um, it allows me to maybe even potentially make a difference in the community because I get to work with the community. I get to work with, um, the other administrators. Is it tough? It absolutely is. You know, that's when, when people are angry, they're gonna come to you. That's, that's just it. And that could be a kid, that could be a staff, it could be a community member, it could be parent. Um, but at the exact same time, what better way to – what other profession can you go into a room and make a direct impact on every single person in that space, every single day? Now teachers have the ability to do that with their classroom -- and that's amazing and that's great. But a principal gets to do that with every single kid in their school. So I don't know why anyone would say, why not go into being a principal? Because it's, it's just incredible. You just, the impact that you can have and then the return is tenfold. 

Alex:

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you both. All right. We're gonna lighten things up a little bit with one more thing. We always hear about those infamous times when a student gets sent to the principal's office. So I wanna ask each of you to give us your best principal's tone of voice for when you're talking to a student. Let's say one who got sent your way for doing something disruptive. So, Holly, you first give us your best principal voice. 

Holly:

Well, it's hard to give a voice because it's a look, right? <laugh> look. And I could silence an entire auditorium with a look. 

Paul:

Well, let's see. Let's see your look. And we will <laugh> we'll confirm it for…Okay. Whoa! 

Paul:

I'm gonna behave after seeing that.

Alex:

Even, even though we’re on Zoom. I think all the listeners just heard that look. And it was chilling!  

Holly:

It's the look, it's it.  

Alex:

Alright, Jose…

Holly:

(inaudible)

Alex:

Oh, sorry Holly, go ahead. 

Holly:

I was just going to say, otherwise, if it was words, I would just very quietly say, “excuse me,” because the quieter you are, the more they're going, “Oh boy.”  

Alex:

All right. Jose-Luis, what about you? You got, you got your best principal's voice for us?

Jose Luis:

Just real quick, what Holly said just a second ago, somebody comes in the office…Nobody ever comes in the office going, I want to talk to the lunch lady. Everybody says, I wanna talk to the principal. And so naturally, exactly what you said, Holly, I lower my voice so they have to come a little closer. But I literally want, I literally want them to understand like, no, I see you, I hear you. But we're not gonna act like that here. I have students that come in, I don't need you screaming and yelling at my teachers. I don't need you acting like a fool in this teacher's class. Do you understand that she has a child and she's a parent. She's a human just like you. Would you want somebody screaming at your own mother? No. And so, I lower my voice and I try to move in and um, it seems to be incredibly effective. 

Holly:

The other, the other thing that I had was, I had a rocking chair. I always had a rocking chair in my office. And the first thing I would have them do, whether, and it didn't matter how tall -- they could be three years old, they could be a full-grown adult. Sit in the rocking chair and then when you're ready, we'll talk. 

Jose Luis:

That's creepy. That would scare me. I would sit there, though, for sure, but I'd be scared.  

Music.

Alex:

Alright, well next is a new game we created just for the two of you that we're calling Hollywood Principals. 

Music.

Both of you have experienced serving in what many people believe is the most difficult role in education. The principle and principles have been celebrated and other times mocked in our popular culture for decades. So in this game, we're going to ask you about Hollywood principles, those school leaders from TV and movies who have led their schools with varying degrees of success. So I'm gonna give you the names of fictional principles and you have to answer with the name of the TV show or movie that character is in. So for instance, if I ask, Albus Dumbledore is the name of the headmaster, in which movies based on a series of bestselling books, you would of course say… 

Both:

Harry Potter. 

Alex:

Harry Potter. 

Jose Luis:

Got it.  

Holly:

Are they all like that? Are they all like that? 

Jose:

Yeah. I hope they're all like that. 

Alex:

All right, well each question is worth one point and I'll take turns asking each of you. And we have a bunch of these, so we will go quickly. Holly, Ava Coleman is the principal of Abbott Elementary School in which current TV sitcom? 

Holly:

I dunno, I don't watch it. 

Alex:

Lemme ask that again. Ava Coleman is the principal of Abbott Elementary School. In which current TV sitcom? 

Holly:

Abbott Elementary? 

Alex:

You got it. Alright, Jose Luis: Seymour Skinner is the name of principal at Springfield Elementary School. In which long running animated series? 

Jose Luis:

I'm gonna say The Simpsons. 

Alex:

Ooh -- point for Jose Luis. Very nice. Okay. These might get a little bit tougher. Holly, Ed Rooney was the name of the principal at a suburban Chicago high school in which 1980s movie? 

Holly:

Ferris Bueller's Day Off. 

Alex:

Anybody? Yes. Anybody? You got it. Very nice. Okay. 

Jose Luis, actor and former Saturday Night Live cast member Tim Meadows played Principal Ron Duval in both the 2004 movie and the 2024 musical adaptation of what? 

Jose Luis:

The Mean Girls. 

Alex:

Whoa. Very nice! Nice work.  All right. Holly, Richard Belding was the name of the principal at Bayside High School in Los Angeles, in which early 1990s TV series?

Holly:

Saved by the Bell. 

Alex:

Whoa. These principals are on fire! Ah, bonus point for either of you. Anyone know his catchphrase? It was, “Hey, hey, hey. What's going on here?” Alright. Jose Luis, Principal Victoria was the name of the longtime principal at South Park Elementary School in this TV series that began in 1997 and is still running? 

Jose Luis:

South Park. 

Alex:

Yeah!

Paul:

Yes! 

Alex:

You got it! Holly, Principal Figgins was the leader at an Ohio High school in which TV series that had everyone singing from 2009 to 2015? Let me say that again in my trademark… 

Holly:

Okay, say it again. 

Alex:

Lemme say that again In my trademark “hint, hint” style. Principal Figgins was the leader at an Ohio high school in which TV series that had everyone singing from 2009 to 2015?  

Holly:

I'm gonna say High School Musical. 

Alex:

Oh, very close. The answer was Glee, but I gotta say I did love High school Musical, as well as High School Musical, the musical of the series. 

All right. Jose Luis, Miss Agatha Trunchbull was the headmistress at Crunchon Hall in the 1996 movie that was also adapted as a musical in the 2010s?  

Jose-Luis:

I don’t know.

Alex:

Do you need a clue?

Jose Luis:

I'm gonna have to say Wicked? 

Alex:

Ooh, I'll give you a clue first. It's originally based on a book by Roald Dahl. 

Jose Luis:

I don't know.

Alex:

The answer was Matilda. 

Well, great job to both of you. You put some major points on the board! One last bonus question. This is a jump ball for either of you. And this one goes way back before all of our times -- except maybe yours, Paul. Michael Woodman was the name of the principal at James Buchanan High School in Brooklyn, in which 1970s TV sitcom? 

Jose Luis:

Welcome Back, Kotter. 

Alex:

Oh! 

Paul:

Well done! 

Holly:

That's before my time. I don't know. 

Jose:

Oh, oh wow.  

Alex:

Hey Holly, me too. 

Paul:

Hey, Jose Luis, what about some carpool karaoke on this one? Do you know the theme song? 

Singing.

Jose:

There it is. There it is.

Paul:

There it is.  

Jose:

 I'm sorry. I'm too old. I couldn't hear you, Paul. What was that? I <laugh>. 

Alex:

Well, just for the record, Jose-Luis and Holly, do you have a favorite Hollywood principal? 

Holly:

No, I would say Rooney because that's what I didn't want to be. 

Jose Luis:

Morgan Freeman in that one -- I can't even think of the name of the movie? I think it was Lean on Me, where it was, it was good and bad. It was like the, the idea that he had a relationship, but the fact that he carried a bat was just kind of silly to me. The, that he built relationships with students was, uh, always very important. But at the beginning they go, they go, he goes, You don't want me, you don't want my style. And he, he, he was trying to track himself out of the job. He, he was never trying to seek it. So I always appreciate that about him. 

Music.

Paul:

Alright. Well, it is time for our final game. The rapid response round we call True, False or Whaaaaat? Alex is going to ask each of you a series of three questions for each one. You have to tell us whether it's a true story, whether we made it up, or you can simply shake your head and say, whaaaaat? So in this final game, each question will be worth one point, but if you get all three correct, you'll also receive a bonus point. And before we start, I'm gonna remind our listeners of the latest score: we have restored those earlier points that were impounded – and we also gave each of you some bonus points because we don’t ever want to get called into your offices and get that look – so the score now stands at Jose, nine and Holly, eight.

Alex:

Ooh, what a showdown. All right. And, as a reminder guests, whoever finishes with the fewest points gets held back and has to join us again for a future episode. So, Holly, since you have the fewest points, we'll start with you. 

Holly:

All right. 

Alex:

A new law in Florida requires that maps of the world used in or in textbooks now show Greenland as part of the United States. Is that true, false or whaaaat? 

Holly:

I have to say false. 

Alex:

That is false. However, a newly passed law, HB 5 49, does direct state agencies and district school boards to update, change or create instructional materials that rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. 

Music.

All right, next question. True, false, or what? In the most recent school board election in Grossmont Unified School District in San Diego County, the names of three dead people appeared on the ballot. 

Holly:

Oh, I wanna say true, but I'm gonna say, whaaaaat? 

Alex:

Well, that is false. 

Holly:

Wouldn't surprise me.  

Alex:

That is false. The people were not dead. They were fake. According to the, according to the San Diego Union Tribune, members of the Grossmont Union High School district community are riled up about an alleged scheme that placed three fake candidates on the ballot to try to divert votes away from the other candidates. The three candidates did not report any campaign expenditures or contributions, nor did they have websites or social media accounts, and they never showed up for any debates.  

I gotta say fun fact. This is actually where I did my student teaching.  

Jose Luis:

That's fake. I don't believe that, either. That's fake news for sure. 

Paul:

Yeah. Was your master teacher real or fake? 

Alex:

All right, Holly, third question for you. True. False or what? A high school in Bridgeport, Connecticut, installed a touchless salad bar in the cafeteria. No tongs or utensils required? 

Holly:

True. 

Alex:

That is true. The sensor-powered salad bar at Fairchild Wheeler Interdistrict Magnet campus in Bridgeport lets students dispense toppings. No tongs required. It's making healthy salads three times more popular according to the Connecticut Post <laugh>. 

Paul:

So I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so I actually really like this concept. I could, I could do this. 

Alex:

Well, I wonder how does, how does this even work? You know, did you wave your hand in front of the sensor to make the tomatoes come out, or what's the deal?  

Jose Luis:

You had me at salad. I don’t, I just think we always, we always just, if it wasn't greasy, we never served it. So, 

Alex:

Uh, well at any rate, at least I won't be leaving the bacon bit spoon in the ranch dressing. 

Holly:

We'll, no.

Alex:

Alright Paul, how many points did Holly earn in this round? 

Paul:

Alright, Holly got all three. Correct. So she also gets the bonus points. So, Holly now has a total of 12 points to Jose Luis's nine. 

Alex:

All right, Jose Luis. Well, here we go for the win. 

True false or what: Scores on statewide assessments in Los Angeles Unified School District improved across all grade levels for the second consecutive year. 

Jose Luis:

True.

Alex:

That's right. And, uh, hoping this one hits close to home for you. LAUSD students didn't just make it back to pre-pandemic performance levels, they have now exceeded those levels. The district superintendent told the LA times, “We established a new high watermark.” This year's gains appeared to be across the board, reaching students with disabilities, students from low-income families, Latino students, and Black students. 

All right, second question. True, false or what? A half dozen elementary schools in Sturgis, Michigan, have playgrounds that include QR coded signs?

Jose Luis:

True? 

Alex:

Yes, that is true. I mean, could we ruin recess anymore? <laugh>. Actually, the QR codes are just one facet of these award-winning inclusive playgrounds, which were designed with input from educators. The Sturgis schools QR codes linked to play-based learning resources. According to the superintendent, the playgrounds have removed barriers and motivated students to play together. 

All right, Jose Luis: Third question. True false or what? A school custodian in Utah got students to stop doing graffiti on his campus by instead joining them at night in doing graffiti on other public buildings in town like the courthouse and city hall?

Jose Luis:

That's true. 

Alex:

Ha ha. No, that is false <laugh>. However, however, Andy Marcus, assistant facilities manager at Draper Park Middle School in Utah's Canyon School District did launch an afterschool mentoring program for students who vandalized school property. According to EdWeek, Andy lends students a listening ear while teaching them to care for their school. And, he was recently named the 2025 National Education Support Professional of the Year. Let's hear it for Andy. Well done! 

Paul:

Hey. Hey, Andy!

Jose Luis:

Reminds me of this math teacher, I heard that was sort of rapping math because rap was so big. It was such a weird thing. That's why I thought it was true. I heard that weird story. I don't hear about Rappin’ Mathematician – weirdo. 

Jose:

I can't even imagine wrapping mathematicians. 

Alex:

I don't know what happened to that guy, but I will say, “Just line up the dot/and give it all you got.” That itty bitty-dot video is still going strong on YouTube. All right, Paul, how did our contestants do? 

Paul:

Well, this was an absolute close match, but the final score was Holly 12 and Jose Luis.,11. So Jose Luis, that means you have to come back and join us again in the future. 

Jose Luis:

I'd love to. You guys are great. I'd love to. 

Music.

Alex:

Well, a very special thanks to both of our incredible guests, educator leaders, Holly Blair and Jose Luis Navarro. 

Holly:

Thank you for what you're doing. I think that this is, this podcast is great. Keep doing the hard work!

Jose Luis:

You're making education funny, informative, and I really appreciate that. So it was a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. Holly, it was great to meet you too. And Paul and Alex, great to see you guys. 

Paul:

Yeah. Thanks so much to both of you. We also wanna say a special thanks as well to our in show band, Tommy Dunbar and the Teacher's Pets.

Alex:

And to all of you, our millions of listeners, we hope you've learned some, laughed, some, and gained a nugget or two of knowledge to pass off as your own. 

Paul:

So, until next time, Alex. 

Alex:

Until next time Paul.