Ep. 126: Interview With Redd Horrocks From Fiverr

Interview With Redd Horrocks From Fiverr

It is rare that I get a chance to interview another Fiverr Top Rated Seller, and on top of that, someone as accomplished and incredible as Redd Horrocks.

I don't want to give away anything from this podcast, but what I will say is that I learned a great deal about Fiverr, and that makes me super excited.

Enjoy listening and thank you, Redd, for your time and knowledge. It was a blast.

If you would like to learn more about growing your voice-over business on Fiverr, check out my website here. 

Transcript

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spk_0:   0:00
Hello and welcome to of Eos journey Podcast. My name is Anthony Pekka. This show is all about helping the new and upcoming voice over artists grow their business and sidestep all of the crazy things that I seem to step on. I have got an exciting show for you tonight. I'm just bubbling over here. I had the privilege to interview read Horror ex who is a top rated seller on Fiverr. Been there since 2013. Absolutely incredible, woman. So knowledgeable. So just fun to talk to. And we go in for quite a while. I apologize up front for the length of this, but I think you're really gonna enjoy it and make sure you listen to the end because she gives some information that I've never even heard before about her work flow and the things that blew my mind. So thank you. Read so much for your time. And if you don't know ah, little bit just more about her. Before we start, she goes into it so I won't go too much. But, you know, she as played an integral role And I believe helping fiver become the company. They are. Ah, she was at the stock exchange with fiber and rang in for at the New York Stock Exchange when they went public. So really, really amazing. So I won't take up any more time. Let's do it, Theis. It is the O's journey with your host, the incomparable Anthony Pekka. All right, so I am here with Red Horace. I hope that's how you say it, But that's wonderful. So I am here with red, and it is an honor. Thank you so much for being on a videos journey. Podcast. Thank you.

spk_1:   1:58
You're very welcome. It's lovely to be here.

spk_0:   2:00
Well, I know that there are so many people that listen to my podcast that are in total awe of your accomplishments on fiver. And they've been so excited in the community that I run in stuff on Facebook as well for this podcast. So we're so excited. So I thought that I would kick this whole thing off by asking you if you could tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started in voice over.

spk_1:   2:27
Yeah, my, um my start is a lot like many other voiceover people. Starts where they just happen. Opponent randomly and then it kind of sticks, Um, way back so many years ago. Please don't ask me how many. When I was in college, um, I had a friend who was a video game major, and he was putting together his main character for his senior thesis video game project and asked me if I would mind voicing the main character. And I've never done anything like that before. And I said, Sure that I can probably I have no idea what I'm doing, But why not? So we went in and we did the character, and it was so much fun at the best time. You got to do a lot of blood curdling death, screams and interesting monologue narration. But it was really fun, and I really enjoyed it. So I kept it kind of in the back of my mind to something that I would do for fun once in a while. And then about Oh, probably seven or eight years ago, I was looking for ways to just make some extra cash, and I started doing a little bit of, um, voice recording for audio book company. Um, I don't really much care for, but um, you know, it was it was different. It was good. And then one of my friends actually pointed me towards fiver when I was just looking for it for as as a buyer. I needed a document formatted, I think. And, um, he was like, Oh, check out the site. It's it's pretty good. They have, like, something for everyone. So I went on there and got the document for matter than the notice. There was a voice over section and had a peek around and thought, Well, maybe I could post a gig. And my first months, I got nine sales. Very exciting. Um, and then it just kind of grew from there. And you got to a point where it was sustainable. And I was able to stop working corporate and go full time, and, uh, the rest is kind of history.

spk_0:   4:13
Wow. You know, I have to ask you, um, because I have read some of the articles. I know that Ah, many people know, but if they don't know, I know you were in Forbes and business insider and all kinds of different magazines and stuff, but I'm interested because I've only been in fiber for a couple of years. But when you join, which I think was in 2013 or that's what it said in some of the stuff I read what was five or like then, when it comes to like sales, because, I mean, were you able to charge, was it just $5 at the time?

spk_1:   4:45
Yes, this was before you could change your base rate. Um, and this was even before you had options of adding many extras so you could put in in a few extras. But it was definitely, um, the system was a lot more simple. They weren't nearly as many features. The level thing existed, but it didn't come with. There's perks that come with levels now. Not all of them were there before. Some of the books that we get it's like a top rated seller are still fairly new. Um, and we ah, they weren't that many of us. You kind of knew the core group of people. Um, so yeah, it was just It was It was quieter. It was It was busy. Like work was very busy, but you had to pump out a lot more volume to make the kind of, um kind of money that you could make now purely because you couldn't have your basic starting at more than $5 you you couldn't add extras and things like that. So it was It was more. It was streamlined in some ways, but it was also more complicated in other ways because you had to work around the system to get the order's built that your clients were actually looking for. So all the new features have definitely been

spk_0:   5:53
good. I bet. Yeah. I mean, that's Yeah, I I actually, um I'm actually excited to ask you about what your thoughts are. Ah, about all of the extras and the things that are available now. And, um, you know, like what you utilize. I know we're gonna go into all kinds of things, but I'm I'm I'm interested in, And if you can kind of just maybe run us through, you know, kind of what your thought processes about five or from top to bottom. You know, if you were talking to someone new, who is coming onto the platform,

spk_1:   6:29
that's actually pretty big question.

spk_0:   6:32
So start. Yeah, it is a question. So, um, maybe, maybe you could start with, you know, I guess s So let's let's talk about this pricing. Let's just first start there, Okay? So kind of, Give us a rundown about your theory, your theory of everything when it comes to pricing on fiber.

spk_1:   6:52
Well, the first thing is that I will say, And when I do talk to people who are interested in joining I do say this. Your pricing is your choice. Um, it's very tricky because, well, now we're in a better situation where people can have a range of prey. You can start your base price at more than $5 still expect to get orders. A lot of it depends on whether or not you want to be an accessible, high volume cellar, or whether or not you want to provide a different kind of service where you are, maybe charging a lot more. But then you're giving more in other ways. So for me, what I've always tried to do with my pricing is I want to be as accessible as possible to my clients because, in my opinion, and this is just purely my opinion, one of the reasons I don't like working with agencies is because I do think the voiceover work and sometimes being incredibly overpriced. Um, there are There's It's so different now the technology that we have access to as independent producers we don't have to have a $50,000 studio in order to produce great work. So I like to take that and pass that on to the consumer. So I want people who are doing I get people all the time who were doing something super small for themselves, like they're doing a school project and they don't have $300 to spend on a 35 2nd voiceover. So for me, I'd rather be able to doom or small projects for more people. And then I use use, I use extras, and I use additional options where I can put that into building up my rate for people who need that. So someone who just need something very, very basic they're not gonna add my extra fast delivery. They're not gonna need to separate files out. They're not going to need to add music. They're just bare bones people. Where I make my volume is from where I make more of my money. Is from when people need things very quickly, and I'm very accessible for that or when they need something. A very large project that's done over the course of several months, like the's air, those kind of clients in the repeat clients that I have those in my bread and butter, so I try to make myself accessible to them. I would much rather have an amazing client who comes to me literally every week and just keep going with them. Year in year out, which I have several might might. My biggest order count right now is 1700 orders from the same client. So I'm that's valuable for me because we have a working relationship and I know what he wants and he knows what he's gonna get. And there's never any back and forth. It's just this is, you know, this is it. So I'd rather that than have one client where I'm doing 35 seconds and getting paid $300 for, because that person's not gonna need me again, right? So my approach is more like I like to build up client relationships with people who are going to want to come back, so I can keep working with who we have a good working relationship, and we can provide what each other needs. And that, for me, has been my drive for success. And that for me has worked. So this doesn't work for everyone, but for me for sure, with the also with how with how accessible I am, I'm in the studio every single day. I'm often able to get something out to someone within an hour if they're in a real time crunch. Um, so it's just mostly about what you also want to be doing for your availability and what makes sense for your life. If you're the kind of person that you would much rather have, say a five day turnaround and you'd rather charge a higher fee, build up your cue and then only record one day a week because maybe you do have another job that you're going to that makes terrific sends. So it's kind of like where it fits into your life and figuring out how to how to balance what you want to achieve, which one with what you want, you with, what you can give, and I don't know if that makes any sense, but

spk_0:   10:35
that, you know, absolutely. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's Ah, basically the way I started. I mean, that's what I did. I think, um, my question to you is this in as and I know it's different for us is top rated sellers, but there's a lot of people, and we still get them occasionally. But you know, there's a lot of people who are confused about the level or the amount of thehe mount of, I don't know, ability to take something from a customer who feels like they're taking advantage of them.

spk_1:   11:13
Ah,

spk_0:   11:14
and so my question by well, my question was is because I know a lot of people do ask, you know, how do I know? You know what I mean? How much I should take or what should I be doing or allowing these customers to ask me, Um, I'm just interested in your take because you've been around for a while, high on fiber,

spk_1:   11:32
and trust me, I've seen it all. Yeah, it's This is actually a conversation I have. One of the other five were ambassadors and top rated sellers is a gentleman named Ryan Heenan. He's on his custom drum loops. And he does, Um, mostly these days he doesn't whiteboard videos, and we have a lot of conversations on Skype over balancing what we're willing to do for work without mental health. It's very, very tricky. A lot of it is knowing that when you're on a platform like five or one of the things that you often have to take a step back and remember is that you're working with people from different places in different cultures, and things that they say to them aren't going to be what they mean and how you take it. So, um, I've found having having a really, really defined set of rules. I have a very strict revision policy, and I do not wiggle on it. Um, I don't care if you're a client that I've had, who's done 1700 orders with me, or if you've done three. This is my revision policy. I don't wiggle on it. I get bad reviews. Sometimes the the only negative reviews I have ever had in our pick of his people do not like the fact that I charge for revisions, because if you've given me a script and I've recorded it and then you want a different script? I can't. I can't Magic that that has to actually be a new studio station and be redone. So I Yeah. So for me, what I do what I find beneficial is I really sit down and I evaluate what my boundaries are, and I decide what I am willing to do. And I will wiggle that on the favor in the favor of coins. Sometimes every so often, depending on the situation, I will give a little more to a client. But at the end of the day, I know that if I stick to my revision policies, which I do believe are very, very fair and I treat everyone the same, it's okay. And then if someone's coming to me with this having an issue, I know it's not me. It's them, right? And I also have my call it my spider sense. Sometimes you just know with a client, you just know something's gonna go south. And I've also I've often found that in many instances it's better to just extricate yourself from the situation than to spend time stressing or worrying about it, because thes it does emotionally impact you when you're when you're having a client. It's tricky, especially when you're getting you know, when your messaging someone back and forth for what feels like and sometimes is ours and you're still just not able to get on the same page every so often, you have to be like, You know what? We're just not a good fit and there's nothing wrong with that. Someone else can help you. There's plenty of other people, but you also have to lake Judge what impact you let people have on your life. And it's real. I do that. I I I I'm terrible at this. I do it all the time where I I will not terminate a conversation just because I'm like, I want to be right, Um, right. But sometimes it's just not worth it. Um, but then you do have the client, so you give them a little bit extra. You give them a little bit more because you get a really good feeling about them, and that can pay off in dividends. So we're all humans. That's the other thing that a lot of people don't realize on this platform is the buyers and the sellers. At the end of the day, we're all humans. A lot of the times buyers have a deadline or or a client that you don't know about and their stress and angst over an order. It's not because you're not providing. It's because they're under pressure and you just don't know

spk_0:   14:59
absolutely, you know, and I love I love that because I think so many people do feel that way. And they do forget that in a lot of the people we work with on fiber are brand new to to using voice overs and they don't know what you know. Ah, person. And maybe in a studio setting or an industry, they don't even know the vocabulary. Yeah, so So you know. And we get frustrated when they have those types of questions or don't want to do this or don't understand s Oh, I totally I totally understand. And I I do think you're right about five for being such a unique place that I'm on all kinds of different platforms, but there's no place exactly like five or where it really feels like the business availability or the the amount of work that you can get on fiber. I mean, it's it's unbelievable. So you're gonna meet all sorts of different people

spk_1:   15:56
you eye on, and different people have different budgets to. The other thing that's interesting is I will have clients who will come to me. I have clients that order through Megan my regular gigs all the time, but I do occasionally and they are. My favorite thing in the world is I will have clients who will message me and they will give me their budget. And it is not my published rates. It's much higher because they know that this is how much it would cost them somewhere else. And they'd rather work with me. But they have that budget, so they're still willing to pay it. Brian, that's that's That's always nice. It makes my heart happy. I feel so fat beauty. But I love all my clients the same, but those ones I'm always like, Oh, you guys don't think I'm okay at my job. That's gonna

spk_0:   16:35
Absolutely And, um So I have ah, some of the questions. So one would be Do you do live direction?

spk_1:   16:42
I used to, um I had a gig for it and I actually ended up having to turn it off when I was traveling, and I just haven't I haven't turned it on yet, and I'm just not not felt the impetus to, um, again. It's one of those things where you open yourself up to that, and sometimes it's amazing someone I'll book you for an hour. It'll take 12 minutes, which is what you knew it was gonna take in the first place. And then you've You've got that client who's happy. You get to work with them. It's fun. But then you'll have the occasional client who doesn't show up when they're supposed thio and, you know, overruns time. It isn't prepared all this kind of stuff. So I found it to be kind of 50 50 in that regard. So even when I was having an available, it was very, very rare that anyone would would use it. So it just goes, stopped, stopped doing it. I do have a couple of studios that I work with off a fiver that I will occasionally go in and do a studio recording, which is always fun. But I'm more I more considered that, like something for my own enjoyment rather than right part of my job, if that makes

spk_0:   17:50
you know, absolutely. So you do, actually. And I've noticed this. I don't personally do it, but I've thought about it. But I noticed that there are some other sellers who do create an entirely different gig for maybe 24 hour turnaround. Or, like you said on live direction where it's like I actually just have it all in the extra section. Do you see a difference with doing one of the other?

spk_1:   18:15
Well, yeah, if you go to. If you have a main gig that has a lot of reviews in a lot of traction, um, you're going to get more people looking at that. So if you've got that as an extra, it's gonna be more commonly ordered. I chose to separate it out a while ago because there was There was a period of time when fiber was really encouraging people to have a CZ many gigs as possible, and I added, had added in a couple of extra ones. And now I think they do still kind of encourage that. But I've just found for me that having having the main gig with all of the options. It's a higher profile gig. It's People will look at it more. Um, so I think it kind of depends. The thing that's different now with it is obviously my life. My life direction gig starts at much higher than my main gig. So I'm going tol when that's all I'm going to show up in a different category. When people put in a high budget, I'm gonna come up there for that. Where is my main gig? Wasn't show up if they put in the max, you know, the $3 sign budget? Absolutely. That I honestly, I would wouldn't get that money orders on it, so I didn't Really I think if I added it to my main gig, I would get a lot of requests for it,

spk_0:   19:20
right, cause I do. I do actually get, uh you know, I do, actually, life sessions, I do like a couple of one or two a week or so. So I'm I'm a lot, but, you know, I mean, it's a decent amount from fiver. So the question I want to go into now is I kind of want to get into we. Yes, We have been doing it a gritty stuff, but I want to get into the nitty gritty for a newbie, someone just getting on the platform who started to fill out the stuff. How do we get business? You get the ball rolling.

spk_1:   19:52
You have to be incredibly competitive and well prepared. That's the best pieces of advice. Eat. Look at everyone else's. Do not copy a gig because that will get you banned. But look at other people's gigs. Look, att. What the heavy hitters air doing and offering. Um, make sure if you are when you're putting up your gig. Video. This is a thing that I've noticed that a lot of people aren't doing these days, and I think it really does make a difference. So my gig video doesn't start with my demo. It starts with about 20 seconds of me just talking in my normal voice, which is actually English or American, depending on whom speaking with um, so I think, on my regular gig videos English. So I was talking just to myself. It's me introducing myself and just saying Hi, I can do this. This is I'm a voiceover, Otis. This is what I can offer you. I'd love to work for you and then I go into 40 seconds of demos and my demos are all about five seconds long. So I have eight different ones in there, so people can really hear what my ranges but having that 20 seconds at the beginning to introduce myself where I am a human being and this is how I normally talk. I get more people asking me specifically for quote unquote the voice at the beginning of my demo than any other thing because it's my natural, normal speaking voice. And right now 70% of clients want just your natural, normal speaking voice. They don't huge pushy forced ads. They want a natural sound. They just want a normal person talking. So I would say, when you're putting together your gig video, introduce yourself. Make sure they know you're human. Give yourself your samples, but bu then make sure that you're gig description is detailed. Make sure you're including anything that you consider a keyword. If someone was searching. So obviously, voice over the accent think you can do Make sure you're including your you're available genders, age ranges. You can put that in there too, and And make sure you do be very specific If there's anything you can't do. I don't work on adult content, so that's not an option for me. And then any extras that you could do. I also have, even though there even there, are outlined below. I have noted in my gig description what the things that in current extra charge come from because sometimes people you know, sometimes people won't make it down to the extras, and they'll just think that everything's included. So it's It's good to be very clear, Um, and then when you get an order overdeliver, especially in the beginning, the best thing you can do is get stellar reviews. Make sure you're communicating with the client. If the client needs needs something, you don't have to do free work. But make sure the clients happy, um, deliver early. That is key. That always makes clients happy when they get when they get in order, a day before they think they're going to get an order. It's wonderful, Um, but yeah, just be, be communicative, be respectful, provide high quality work. Be clear. Those were the big key key things. I think

spk_0:   22:52
so. So what? Absolutely, Um it's interesting that you said that about, um, the gig video because I actually do something different. Um, however, I do it differently because I honestly feel I actually get more business, because I my first spot gets me the most business. So I do agree with you about Definitely. The first couple of seconds will get you your business on your demo or you're talking. Um, but at the same time, I know for me, like I would feel like the way my demo is if someone heard me talking like I don't know better. Um,

spk_1:   23:32
well, you don't know until you until you ask. I mean, um, I have an interesting thing to A and B test.

spk_0:   23:37
I did. I tested out when I first started on dhe. Yeah, but but absolute. I mean, listen, I I think it's everybody is. I love what you just said about testing. I love that because I think that is so important on the platform to testing new things and trying out different stuff.

spk_1:   23:56
Yeah. And the thing is, if you do decide to go and test things Thean important thing to remember and I counsel people on this all the time is to make sure you give yourself time for the test to work. So if you change something and then all of sudden you don't get an order for two days, that doesn't mean that you're not gonna get orders and that you broke it. It means that maybe that's just a slow day on the site. You never know. You have to test things for a good week or two weeks to see how they'll impact. I also do when I'm looking at making any major changes to my gig, especially to my pricing, which I make a change. I'll change my pricing model no more than once a year, sometimes only every other year on. Whenever I'm about to make a change, I will go to whoever my current top 10 clients are, and I will ask them for what they think and how it would input in impact their business. If I change my rates in this manner, Um and generally it's overwhelmingly positive. I mean, usually my clients. If I'm saying that I'm going to increase my my base rate, a lot of my clients are like, why haven't you done that already. Um, but then things like I was looking at changing the way that I priced out my extra fast delivery. And I messed a message a bunch of my regular client to usually order that on. I did have two of them come back to me and say that they would be beyond their budget cut budget capacity in order to do that and that would, you know, um, change how often they'd be able to order for me. So I decided to kind of table that one for a minute, and maybe I'm still thinking about doing it, but I might wait another few months and then go back to them again and say, See how we're doing or see if my Maur high volume clients change because you just you never know who's gonna come along. So

spk_0:   25:30
that's so valuable. I love that.

spk_1:   25:33
Yeah, So there's nothing wrong with asking your clients if you think you might want to change something, get their input, they love being asked. But that's the other thing, too, because clients then know that your value and you're valuing their your relationship with them enough to ask them for input on what changes you might make affect them. They just it. It's a wonderful thing for a business relationship when you actually can have a dialogue about it. And I get insights all the time when I asked those questions of clients that a really valuable like things I don't necessarily think of. Right. So, yeah, I'm sorry. I tend I went on attention there. No,

spk_0:   26:06
no, that's okay. That's okay. No, absolutely. In from the standpoint of driving traffic to your gay because I know that when I started even a couple of years ago, there was a lot less people on the site and, you know, the sights growing. And I I think it's ah, and and I again like what you said when you first started. I'm sure it's grown just crazy. So there are a lot of people who are putting up their stuff and trying, but they're just not seeing the amount of impressions or anything to to get them any work. I know there's a by request section and things, but do you have any tips on driving traffic to your gig that aren't You know, just what we were just talking about.

spk_1:   26:49
I mean, This is a tricky one, because the fiver search algorithm is a mythical unicorn being that doesn't know what where it lives have no riel. I don't have any like tips. That would would be this will. This will make this work because I don't think there is such a thing. What you can do is you can make sure you like I said, make sure you have keywords in your gig description on and in your title. Um, you could Definitely using by request is good because you wanna build up reviews fivers Really good now with their with their, um, algorithm. It's There's a lot more of this actually used, used to make a lot of us. I don't I don't want call us like heavy hitters, cause that's not right. But a lot of a lot of the top rated sellers who have been high volume cells and have been on the site for a while. When the first shift came where fiber started promoting people like ranking in search, new sellers above us, we're all going for our kind of sucks. But I get it, and I totally get it, and now it's a really good blend. They've figured out how to make it a lot more diverse. So, in voice over at the top of best selling, there's always people that air knew. I mean, I saw a girl on the top row the other day who had 12 orders before. So you also have todo keep at it and and and know that the system is built to help new people. It's That's something that fiver, really it means a lot to the company is to have

spk_0:   28:11
our new

spk_1:   28:12
people coming in new sellers. So to a certain degree, you have to have a little faith, um, patients as well, But you have by request for sure. Uh, if you have, If you want to share things on social media, you can share things on social media. Um, but there's no magic answer, really. Unfortunately, some of

spk_0:   28:34
it is

spk_1:   28:34
just is just time

spk_0:   28:36
time I was going to say that I was going to say time because I know it. I mean, it does take that time to build up the customers. I think the client, the repeat clients, is so important.

spk_1:   28:48
Yeah, I have a saying that says you never know when your next client is gonna be your best client. So whenever you have a new client, you treat them, especially if you're new and you have the time to dedicate to them dedicated, you know, build that relationship, keep them coming back. Make sure they're happy. Answer their questions. That's another thing that I will say, Um, and this is something that I still I'm not good at. Capturing sales from messages is really important. If you've got someone who's taken the time to send you a message asking for something, help that, like do your best to communicate quickly with them to make sure that you can be you can capture that sale. Um, I am terrible about it. I do. I get a lot of enquiries where basically it It's a little frustrating for me as a high volume cellar when I get messages that are just like I have. This many words sent me a customer for it. I'm like, if you go on my gig page, you could do this magical thing where you could enter this information and the salmon order, so I do. I do tend to, um, I tend to steer those clients back to my gig page because I am for me. I want to teach them that they can just place an order. But for someone new, who has more? Um ah, need for new business, Shall we say, then? I I mean, I'm not saying I don't need new business. I always do. But for someone who has who has the time, who could work with the clients that do need a little bit more hand holding to get through the order process? I take the time. I mean, if you've got the time, use the time.

spk_0:   30:15
Absolutely. You know, funny story. When I first started on fiber, I'll never forget this. And it actually taught me something that I'm struggling with now trying to break just because of the amount of work I'm doing, but I'll never forget. I got a message from a customer who was asking me about service and they want to work with me. And I wasn't able to get back to them for about 15 20 minutes. And then I got back to them in about 20 minutes. And then when I messaged them, they said, Sorry, someone else beat you to it, and I'll never forget. I'm like, what you? Because I was so excited. I was just starting in like, Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna get a job. And then at that moment, I was from that point on, I have this insane. Um, just tick that whenever that bell rings on my phone, I've gotta, like, answer it immediately. But now, as I go through it, it's interesting as we you go through this process on five. I think the customers and the people you start dealing with they, you know, they're It's not as harsh, I think it was I was beginning when I was start first, starting out where these people are messaging a couple of people, and it's whoever answers first. But I still do something where I actually ask on my requirements section Why did you choose to work with me? And they actually put down? Ah, they're really honest. And sometimes they'll put down because your green light was on for, like you're online or you were quick to answer. So those still does matter which goes back to what you said about, you know, over delivering. Um and, you know, trying to do your best for the customer. So

spk_1:   31:49
yeah, and I found two. There's two different types of clients, says clients that need something. And this clients that need something specifically from you on DDE. I am very, very lucky in that I have a stable of clients now, So when I'm away for a week, I know that when I get back, I will have had clients who have waited from for me because they need something specifically for me. But I also know there's probably a about 30 other clients that I could have captured that I didn't because I was off. I was out of the office. So there's always this new people with sight every day. Now that we can see when someone's new to the site, it's insane. I get people who have never ordered before constantly, so I know that other people are getting them. Those two. So that's the other thing, too, is if you've got a client and you're seeing that they're new to the site, they're new to fire. It's their first order, then absolutely try and build that relationship with them, because if they've come to you first and they've not going anywhere else, they're yours. It's up to you to lose him. So you keep him as best you can.

spk_0:   32:48
Oh, yeah. I and I. I send a thank you to them for being, you know, their first choice on fiber and has so much better than me. Well, you know, it's just a swell these things or something. The bad thing is, I do forget sometimes, but sometimes I do it just cause if it is nice and you're right, I mean, they'll have no other reason to work with anybody else. Yeah, if they're

spk_1:   33:08
getting exactly what they need from you, they're not gonna go anywhere else. So yeah. Relationships key.

spk_0:   33:15
So this is okay, so this is It's not necessarily five or related, but ah, you mentioned something that you do. Occasional studio work. My question to you is what, ah, other places. Or how many other places do you generate? You know, some sort of income from That's not fiver, you know, like online sites or something.

spk_1:   33:35
I'm on. Let me see. I would say that I am now active ish on 2 to 3 different marketplaces other than fiver. And then I have a website and I do get I do have external clients that I work with. It have found me through my website that I've kept. I was on. There was one other site that I was on to other sites that I was on up until about a year ago. One of them, I didn't know, particularly care for their, um, demand on a on a provider. They were, in my opinion, a touch unreasonable. And I found myself dreading, and every time I go in order, their whole system was really not. It was not skewed towards being friendly for the artist. It was

spk_0:   34:24
I'm really I'm laughing because I'm not gonna I know you just by talking to you. I know you're not the person who would probably say who that was, but I I I feel like I know

spk_1:   34:34
you might have. And there's another. There was another site that I had to leave because so, as you've noticed, my name is red harks. It's not a usual name. Um, my first name is different Reds nickname. I've had it since I was 12 and the other site I had to quit because they change their privacy policy to where it was required. that I used my legal first name on. I've spent my entire life being called red, and I've also spent 15 years building my brand. Right? So my name is my brand, So I was like, Well, I can't I'm sorry. I can't do that anymore. And I only had to think five clients on there and I messaged all of them. I never gave them any information. Really. All I said was I missed him. I said I just wanted to let you know, in case you're looking for me in the future, I'll no longer be working on this platform anymore. I've really enjoyed working with you. Thanks so much for your business. And within a month, I had five emails because they found me on my right on my website. Wow. And I was like, Oh, that makes me feel good. So I didn't bring

spk_0:   35:35
the levels that is. And I know I know it should. There is a little right. There is a lot of sites, most of them. And you know, you don't want youto give out personal information for now.

spk_1:   35:44
And I never did. It's a hard and fast rule I never do of course ever. You were an exception because you message me for fiber. But I knew that it was for the greater good.

spk_0:   35:51
And and I apologize. And I apologize so much because I know the worst thing to do. And if anybody was listening, the worst thing to do is what I did to read. And I apologize because you never want a message. Someone especially what happens to me. And and I and I love everybody. And I know that they don't mean anything bad about but maybe other voice of artists or someone who has a question for you that's related not to, like work, but just a needing advice. And they message you right before bed. This'll eat on, then you wake up, you know, and it's like, you know, five or six hours after they message you and you like, Oh, no. And then you you just have the message back and, you know, a couple of words. But so I thank you so much for being so kind and understanding. I appreciate it. I didn't know what you're gonna say. I was afraid your baby frustrated, Which I wouldn't think

spk_1:   36:41
so. No, not at all. I'm just It's it's nice to I mean, for me, On a personal level, it's always wonderful to be able to connect with people that understand my world and do what I do. I mean, we're we're freelancers were in a very isolated community here. We don't We don't get to go to a water cooler and invent about the ridiculous phone call. We just have, like, a regular office. You know, this is this is our water cooler, and I will take any opportunity. I have to be able to talk to people that understand my world. That's my poor suffering husband. He just has no idea. He's I don't know how he how he does it. He has a stock response list. I think that he goes through when I'm when I'm whining about something and, uh, yeah, it's always fun.

spk_0:   37:25
Do you with that being said, What about the forums? Um, actually, I've I've done very little on the forums, and I noticed that when I go on there when you talk about a community in a fiber community, there are many and I don't know, I think you're actually well, I know that I had found you or I first thought about having the guts to message you when I had someone else who I work with who is in a group, a Facebook group that I think you either run or you're in and

spk_1:   37:54
in it I mean, I don't

spk_0:   37:55
limit, OK, do you? When I go to the form, I see that there was a lot of people active. There's a lot of people active, but I noticed there was a lot of people on that were active a lot more awhile ago.

spk_1:   38:09
Yeah, Yeah, there's definitely, um a while ago, there was a really big for in my opinion, Um, this is just my opinion. There was a really big shift a few years ago. Maybe, Like I want to say, three years ago, where the community acts aspect of fiver became very different. Used to be a lot more again. The site used to be smaller, you know, on everyone knew each other or not. Everyone knew each other, but people knew of each other. Um, and the forums were more of a place where you could go and see opinions and advice. But when you've been on when you've been on a website for six years and you're looking at the forums, everything. Psych, lickle. So every single thing that's come up, trust me, it's already come up before. So the forms become less of a fun place to be because there's never really anything new going on now for a new person. Absolutely. You're in that beginning cycle where everything's new to you. This is an awesome time to be on a forum, But for me, I'm and for a lot of the other other ambassadors and former ambassadors, I know that we have, um, become a lot more hands off just because, you know it's not. We're not really needed anymore. The the resource is that you see usedto have were minimal. Now they have a massive resource center and help center for people that need, like bug assistance and advice and things like that. So, um, so that wasn't a resource we used to have, and now we have it. So I think that's another reason the forums or less active, because people can find help in a more automatic way than asking other people. Um, well, I used to mice to do for moderation to and and um and yeah, it was just a lot of the same. The same stuff. How do we get How do we get buyers? Why are my sales down? Why is the phone changed? All kinds of things like that just cycles every every couple of every couple of months. So

spk_0:   40:03
So what? That being said, what do you notice is some mistakes. Just a couple of general mistakes. You you see new people making either with them taking advice from other people on five Army for fiver or being, you know, in the group that you're in and stuff like that. Is there any particular one or two? Just one or two. And then I'll get to the last question and let you go.

spk_1:   40:27
You can have as many, Much of my time is you want. This is lovely. You're just gonna have a really long podcast. Um, I I think publicly complaining is a terrible idea. Yeah, um, your reputation carries and it carries everywhere on DDE. I would say that any interactions that you have publicly about your work should should try and be positive. Um, if you do have something feedback or something negative or some things you know, do it privately. Find a friend to talk, to create a Skype room with a bunch of other people who do what you do. But I think a mistake that I do see people make sometimes is that they just they become associated with negativity, especially on the forms and in the communities. And there's really hard to break that. And it's it's not necessarily gonna hurtyou sales wise, But it's, um it's just gonna mean that you're just not gonna have us many. As many. Resource is like, If you do need a hand with something from someone you're not gonna be, it's likely to get it. And it's the same with clients, like if you treat if you don't treat clients well, um, if you act, one of the things that I ice I see a lot or I saw a lot before with a couple of salaries is when they would just get they'd get a little traction and they'd be doing kind of well, and I am also occasionally guilty of this. But I try super, super hard. To keep myself in check is when they start to get really entitled, Um and yes, my time is incredibly valuable, but so is yours. And I think that sometimes people will get, like on the a little bitty on their high horse where they on I've done this before where I've been like someone sent me something. I had this yesterday, actually where someone had messaged me and they said This word's pronounced room and I I knew it wasn't pronounced wrong and I checked it on a listen to it, and I'm like, it's not pronounced wrong. Are you like Kevin? Can you please double check? Like, can you listen again? Like it's not wrong? And they come back to me and they're like, No, I need it pronounced like this. And they sent me it. And it was a It was a different pronunciation of the what the word is, I'll tell you, the word was though the word con bon, which is a, um Ah, it's ah, system. Ah, something technology. I know a lot of stuff, but I it goes in one end around

spk_0:   42:56
What? What was the word? What

spk_1:   42:57
Wuhan bomb que in k n b a n. It is a I think it's, um it's a It's an aspect of like a Microsoft suite. It's something very specific. So I've done a lot of voiceovers about this before. I do a lot of corporate stuff on. I was like, No, it's pronounced combine and they kept saying You're pronouncing it wrong and I'm like, No, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. And finally, after nine messages back and forth, I finally figure out that he's in a different country and they don't pronounce it like that there. And he just hadn't been able to figure out how to articulate it to me that it wasn't that I was wrong. I was regionally incorrect based on what he needed. It wasn't my fault. It wasn't his fault. It was no one's fault. But I was getting like, super mad, and I was I was wrong in like I was right and I was wrong. So it's it's having the patients and, like, really like taking the time to teach, to try so hard to. I don't ever think that clients are necessarily trying to annoy you. Um, very, very rarely does that happen. So every so often you have to think, okay, we'll wait. Am I? Am I It's okay. I could be wrong. Am I just wrong? And should I just check that? It's not, in fact, me, even though I'm sure it is. So, you know, people that get really, like everything I do is write everything I do is right. And then they go back and double check the working they like. Oh, maybe no. Okay, so it's just better to take the time double check it. You really could be wrong. And that's okay. Just fix it and be nice and laugh about it. And you're good. So

spk_0:   44:29
that's so awesome that you said it because that happens a lot. And yeah, and it's funny because, you know, we're hired a lot for the fact that we have the accent that we have. And, um which I know that you are. You're British. Right? But you are America. You're I'm Colonel. I'm complicated.

spk_1:   44:49
I'm so yes, I am. I'm I'm from South East England on. And then I moved to Georgia when I was 18. And then I moved out to the West Coast 10 years later, so

spk_0:   44:59
wow. Yeah, you got the full gamut.

spk_1:   45:01
My party trick is that I can flip him so I can co completely British and you will not. You would not know what ever been to America. But no, I it's I chameleon. So that's why I was saying earlier, Like talking to you. I'm American because you're American. But if you were English, we'd be speaking in an English accent right now and I can't control like when it's a normal conversation with normal people. I can't control it. And it's hilarious. It's special. I have

spk_0:   45:23
definitely here. You definitely have a couple of words where they're

spk_1:   45:27
still trying there. Yeah,

spk_0:   45:28
but that's okay.

spk_1:   45:30
I also say y'all because I was in Georgia, So

spk_0:   45:32
I love it because I'm in Virginia. So I'm in Southeast Virginia. Yeah. So, um, that's that's good. I knew that you I I knew that because I know when your gigs you offer, you know, the British accent as well. A cz American accent.

spk_1:   45:46
Yes. Don't actually want Australia. And I can't do it. I've tried. It's terrible.

spk_0:   45:51
Oh, no. Which one do you find? You get more work.

spk_1:   45:55
It's really it's It's almost completely 50 50. Wow. Um, it's very interesting to, though, because ah ee Comptel by I'll have if I have, like seven orders placed within a one hour span in the middle of the night. They're all gonna be British accents because it's morning for England, and then all of my stuff that's coming in the afternoon is always American. So it's It's kind of funny like that, but it's very, very split. Um, and I have some people that want me to do both, which is always kind of fun. So

spk_0:   46:28
wow, that is cool. I am. I was I was going to say that I do, um, back at that other thing about people coming and usually that happens to be like you said someone in a different country who wants your American accent. But then there's a particular word where they feel needs to be said in the more so the accent of from where they're from. And it's a different

spk_1:   46:50
Yeah, I mean,

spk_0:   46:51
sensation of it

spk_1:   46:52
take websites in South Africa. The the ending handle for South Africa is is dot z a, and it's like if I get this romantic, I'm gonna laugh at myself, but it's like I always do, so you might have to look it up and see which one is correct. But in my in my memory, I get a lot of people ask me to be in a British accent because South Africa is a little bit more English sounding. But then their Web addresses. I have to then doozy instead of said so because they say Think or it's the other way around is one of the two, but it's it's cross accent. So the way that they pronounce the XE is counter to what the accent choice always is. And I forget all the time. And then they come back to me and they're like, Hey, so in our country pronounce it like this and I'm like, Yes, I know. I'm so sorry. Here, let me fix that for you. I'm not gonna charge you for that because that's totally it's okay. That's a really, really standard thing. It's not your fault. So but, yeah, there's stuff like that all the time on Dhe. Then there's times when I just it's it's people. I love it when people try and explain to you how something needs to be pronounced when it's just this really, really standard thing. Like I get people like trying to explain how Voila is said all the time to May. And I'm like, No, I got this one. I'm good. I'm cool. You're okay. I got I got you. I I do this for a living. You're okay?

spk_0:   48:06
Yeah. I'd be interested to see what they say when they're trying to describe. Well, uh, I have to

spk_1:   48:14
I have to save one and send it to you because it's a Boston. Quite hilarious. But it's because I know that they're following my directions. It's a non English word I've said. Please tell me how to pronounce that. Like No, I don't. I

spk_0:   48:23
don't think

spk_1:   48:24
you're right

spk_0:   48:25
and into piggyback off of that point, though really quick. And then I have one more question for you is the expectations. And you said this a couple times and for everybody listening. I know for me, my business completely changed, especially around revisions. I used to really feel like I was, you know, just kind of roaming in the dark with understanding how to may clients not maybe necessarily take advantage of me. But I felt sometimes it was too much. But the expectations are so important, and I notice a lot of new people don't necessarily write down exactly what you are saying. That this is much expectations. You can't, but in a kind manner, not in a manner. And where it looks like you don't want to work with somebody, you know I will not do this. I will not do that. No, no, no. Um,

spk_1:   49:15
yeah. I mean, I I usually try to use very gentle language. So if you came to me, I will. I will tell you exactly what my revision policy is. I will have people that say, What is your policy? And my my party line is I will be happy to make pace and pitch changes at no cost. If you have a script, a pronunciation or direction change, we would need a new order for that. That's it. Just simply just simple. Straight.

spk_0:   49:41
I've switched to the basically that same thing that you do. That's what I do much if

spk_1:   49:46
I could much like to make a change. Yeah, and it's the same rate and the and but the other thing that I do to the one that I get a lot and this was a choice that I made when I decided to change my minimum great from $5 to $10 is I will. I will have some place, a new order, and I will get people coming to me all the time saying that they want a custom order for $5 I don't do that. If you've put in a revision request on the order, if it's a current order, I will do it. I will do a $5 revision. But if it's if the orders closed out and you've come to me a month later, it's a new minimum, and I tell people all the time. If they wanna tack it on to the end of another order is so long as you're in the purchase word count. That's fine with me. But I do. I don't do $5 custom offers anymore, mostly because you do have to have a line. Um, and if yes, if you've got a change and it's it's not my fault and you you haven't been timely, then you know I want to help you, and I will help you as much as I can, but at the same time, you need to learn not to do that in the future and I can't spend my entire day sending $5 custom offers because that's what I'd be doing.

spk_0:   50:54
I think I think I got, like, 335 or messages since we've been doing this.

spk_1:   51:00
No, no. My emails going? Not yet for sure. That's how it always goes. My little

spk_0:   51:04
turn off my phone. I mean, sometimes it gets so bad. And I guess that's something to that. When you get to you get so much, it can be so distracting. Like from stopping your workflow. I'll

spk_1:   51:15
say you wanted

spk_0:   51:15
another challenge.

spk_1:   51:16
One of the best things I ever did was I made it. I don't have notifications on my phone. I don't have new orders. Go to my email. Um, but, um, I don't have revision requests. I don't probably my email. I got them filtered out because I don't like seeing thumb. Um and then,

spk_0:   51:34
yeah, that's a good idea.

spk_1:   51:35
And then the other thing that I do is I have my phone toe where the fiver app stops working at 9 p.m. for me and it doesn't start working again until 6 a.m. So I can't even go interesting. So I've got it. I've got it locked at looked off because I found that was happening was I was I was answering messages at 10. 30 at night, and then it was rolling around in my brain and I couldn't get to sleep. And then I had this period of about two years where I was having real problems sleeping. So I would wake up in the middle of the night and it's like, Oh, while I'm awake, I might as well check my phone and then I check fiver, and then I'd be, you know, doing e mails and work it. Working at three in the morning from my bed with my husband asleep next to me and was like, This is This is not that's not helping me get back to sleep So I just stopped doing it, Um, and now it's, you know, I I work fairly regular business hours, but from from 9 p.m. Until 6 a.m. No fiber, none. And I have

spk_0:   52:31
me, you know, I'm so and and I know maybe for for other people depends on where you are. But that is so like for me. It's so awesome. Hear you say that because it's it can be a way too much.

spk_1:   52:45
Yeah, and it's You have to protect your mental health. You really, really do. I mean, we're It's another reason why I like connecting with other people that kind of understand the world. I have, ah, have a Skype room that there's Ah, I think there's only six or seven of us and now, but there's about six or seven of us top rated, top rated, high volume sellers, and it's basically just an open channel. We don't talk in it every day. But if something happens, or if someone's having a weird day or if someone like needs to be event about a client or someone had a baby, you know, just it's just nice to have Coke, like for want of a better word? Coworkers. Yeah, um, so you know, you have to think about the things like it's it's a great system, and five is a wonderful sight, and I love what I do for a living, But we, especially when we work in in most of us, are working from home. You have to figure out a way to keep your keep yourself in check so that you aren't getting too overwhelmed so that you don't feel like all you're doing is working so, you know, continuously glued or tied to it because it seeps in. I mean it. It seeps in everywhere, especially when it's it's there all the time. And you're going to do better if you're emotionally around it better. If you're happy liking your job and you're doing it, you're gonna do better. If you're frustrated that you're constantly getting another notification at two in the morning and I'll have to answer and all this kind of stuff you're gonna you're gonna get cranky. And it's gonna impact all aspects of your life, including How will you do it work? So that's my little soap Soap books. I

spk_0:   54:11
get down. I I love it. No, I love it. All right, well, I just have This has been so wonderful. I just have one more question for you. And this one is more of a fun one. I guess so. If you had to start over today and you had no previous customers year, the brand that you know you've built was gone. Now you had all your equipment, though you magically have all your equipment in your knowledge, but you don't have any customers. What would you do? Where would you start

spk_1:   54:46
That? That's a really I've No, that's Ah, it's Ah, it's a fun question, but it's a weird one, because I I don't know how to not know the things I know. Um

spk_0:   54:56
well, no. No. I mean, like, Yeah, I understand. Yeah, but where if you did know kind of what you know.

spk_1:   55:03
Are you saying,

spk_0:   55:03
Look, is

spk_1:   55:03
there anything that I would change? About what? I have a party thing?

spk_0:   55:07
Well, like, for example, when you started on five of the same with me, right? It was different then than it is than it is now. Um and you know, So how would you What would you Would you do anything different or you know, that he's starting to get again today than you did when you started?

spk_1:   55:25
If I was back to when I started, if it wasn't my I think the difference is if it wasn't my full time job, right? Which is how it wasn't. When I started, I started five. I had a regular job. I ended up, you know, quitting after a while. It just simply couldn't do both. If it wasn't my full time job and I wanted to build myself up differently, I would start my minimum order rates much higher. Honestly. Interesting. Um, I would be I would be a higher rate from the get go. So that expectation was there on that I would maybe have in the beginning, as I was getting better at it, I would have lower volume, more time to concentrate on those clients and honing my craft. Um, I think that's what I would do differently because the other thing, too, is the one, the one. It's a I love what I do, and I love where I'm at in my career. But for me, raising prices is incredibly difficult, because there is a level of expectation amongst my 18,000 prior clients as to what my rates are. So, um, for me, I'm not pigeonholed by any stretch of the imagination. This is the road that I've decided to go down, and since I've gone down it, I'm sticking to it. But if I was to start over and do a different road, I might go the higher price route. Maybe

spk_0:   56:47
it's definitely interesting. Do you think that people just starting out, though, um, do you think that going higher price on Fiverr affects them more so than starting out at that entry level price?

spk_1:   57:01
It depends on the quality you can provide. Okay, if you are recording on a USB mic in your closet, probably want to start $5. If you've got yourself a really sweet studio set up with a fantastic mike, and everything's going really, really beautiful and you don't if you could if you could do a voice of Rick over recording and send it without touching it, you can charge higher. That's the way I kind of view it if you are, if you are gonna have to, like, edit and adjust and normalize and all this kind of stuff because your equipment isn't as good, you probably want to lower your rate because you aren't able to prove you've got to make sure the expectation is set. You know, if I'm charging $100 it's expected to meet, have a completely professional set up. If I'm charging $5 I can get away with a little more makes sense.

spk_0:   57:50
That's really that's the whole makes perfect sense and actually I'm sorry. I know. I told you it was the last question. Oh, that's as

spk_1:   57:55
many as you like. Seriously, I have I have done my work for today. This is my happy time.

spk_0:   57:59
Okay, So you sparked another question in me, actually, about what you just said. So with your the amount of what? Well, let me ask you this. Do you mind? How many would you say on average a month? Orders. Do you complete?

spk_1:   58:13
You're not gonna like this answer. Okay. Just on fiber. Yeah, about 600.

spk_0:   58:19
Oh, my eyes. 600. That is insane. No, I'm not crazy wellit's I mean, that's insane. Those air

spk_1:   58:30
Very Linz. I mean, some of those air three words. And some of them are, you know, 8000 words. It runs the gamut.

spk_0:   58:37
Um, okay, so with that being said, and that leads me to the 600 see? Okay. I talk to you know, that's okay. Well, I think I think like, you know, I'm hot stuff. Let's see. I knew talking to you would be a good thing here. My, This is my question to you now. You just mentioned before about sending off a piece of work where you didn't do anything like it was just sending off. So I guess my question to you is Do you do Is that how you are able to get through so many as you have a very limited I could see for me. Look, at this point, I have all presets. Everything is built into my entire system. So it takes me very little time from the moment I record to then sending a finished product for you. Are you doing any, um, you know, post production work at all. Why

spk_1:   59:25
do theirs? That's all I need to do. I've got it. I've been doing this for six years. I've got it completely dialed in the other thing I have. And this is this is where you're getting a little bit of my secret sauce. So, um, because I am a high volume seller, my goal is to get through I get into a rhythm with orders and for me what I have found the way that I work best is if I'm able to just continuously go, go, go, go, Go. So, um, a while ago, a cop who have probably three years ago now I mentioned this to another seller who was, um uh, he's a Web developer. And we were just chatting on Skype one day, and I was lamenting about how much I hated opening an order, downloading a script, checking all the criteria, reading the script, exporting the file, naming how I wanted to name it, sending it on, how I wished I could just have something where it was just record hit next record hit next record hit next. And he said, Well, I can build that for you And he did. Um so what I have I'm very, very lucky. I have an assistant. She captures all the information I need from every single order, and she puts it into a system for me where when I log in in the morning, literally all I do is record hit, next recorded, next record hit next, and then I batch upload all of the orders so I can get a really good flow going very, very unbroken rhythm. And because everything I have is set up exactly how I like it, and my studio is never changes. I mean, nothing in here changes. It's calibrated exactly to me. I do not have to do post processing. And that is Thea. That is the Picasso methodology of how I get through it. Also, Um,

spk_0:   1:1:06
that's great. You know, I've actually thought about personally, it would be so much nicer to be able to take everything in the mic, you and just go into the booth, my booth, and record everything and then come out instead of, you know, doing it. Starting, stopping, starting, stopping. I love that.

spk_1:   1:1:23
Yeah, I'm really, really lucky that I have it. It's, um it's definitely one of the reasons why I'm able to turn work around so quickly for clients, but it's taken years to develop the system on dhe. That's why I say it's the castle methodology. Do you know the the old adage of the Picasso line drawing thing? Um, why Picasso is worth so much? No. Okay, this is one of my favorite little thing. This is one of my favorite analogies. Okay, so here's a little story a woman is walking down the street in, you know, I guess they would have been Spain. Picasso who? And this would have been obviously a while ago. Um, and she says, Picasso, can you paint me And he's like, Sure, so he draws a line on a piece of paper and then this is all obviously very incorrect terminology and methodology and numbers on the woman's like Oh my God, Picasso, The line is perfect. You've captured me. This is every essence of my being is to you in this line, you know how much for it? And he says 5000 will do Spain, So I don't know, Euros. 5000 years. Um and she's like, What do you mean? 5000 years? It took you a second to draw it and he says, No, madam, it took me my entire life. And that is why, even though it doesn't take me like ours, to record something is why I still feel okay at, you know, charging for it.

spk_0:   1:2:51
That's a really good story. I got a lot going on right on, right on the website quote you right on the website.

spk_1:   1:3:02
I know. I always worry, though, because some people say, Well, that didn't like I hell have clients sometimes in there, like, Wow, that was fast. And I'm like, Is that an accusation or kombu?

spk_0:   1:3:11
I've had those before, boy, it's so it's weird to me when they complain about it being fast or more. So you're right. You don't know if it's a complaint or it's Ah

spk_1:   1:3:20
yeah, me

spk_0:   1:3:21
about you. Maybe you should have taken longer,

spk_1:   1:3:23
right? But for me, it's, you know, I can do it quickly because I've I've spent years figuring out how to do it quickly and and for me also like if I take forever on a piece, I'm gonna do it to death. I'm gonna I'm gonna overthink it. I'm going over, Analyze. It's not gonna be natural. What people are looking for from me is they're looking for regular natural thing. And the other thing is, I'm just I am my My special skill is cold reading. I'm just really good at it. So it's

spk_0:   1:3:50
That's a great skill.

spk_1:   1:3:52
It's only applicable in this situation. That's it. It is a good skill to have

spk_0:   1:4:00
Well, hey, listen, this has been amazing. I feel like I could talk to you forever. But then I feel like maybe people would be like enough Get go out. I think we've been over an hour, so I just thank you so much for your time. I'm blown away and and honored. And I really appreciate it

spk_1:   1:4:15
when they would love to speak to you. And I think what you're doing is awesome. It's There's so many people that don't have the ability to talk to other people about this kind of thing. And having having a podcast where people can access this kind of information or at least just know they're not alone is really nice. I know. I know. If I was coming up and I had this, it would have been amazing. But alas, I was I was a guinea pig.

spk_0:   1:4:38
Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, you have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your week, and

spk_1:   1:4:44
you too,

spk_0:   1:4:45
And I will talk to you soon.

spk_1:   1:4:47
Okay? Take care.

spk_0:   1:4:48
All right? Yep. But by bike. Well, thank you so much red for that incredible incredible interview. And for your time, I have to say I am. Ah, I am just very happy that I got a chance to talk to you. And I learned a great deal from you myself tonight. So thank you from all the vo journey community. We really appreciate it. And we wish you the very best. And I want to wish everyone a great rest of your week. Thank you guys out there and have a good one piece.