Ep 4./ Chantal Epp - 2 x World Champion Cheerleader, Founder ClicknClear, Trustee- Paracheer International

Chantal Epp is a multi-award-winning entrepreneur, 2x World Champion Cheerleader, and founder of ClicknClear, a music rights tech and licensing company solving copyright infringement issues across choreographed sports and performing arts worldwide. 

ClicknClear was awarded a United Nations Innovation Award from the World Intellectual Property Organization, and Chantal has previously been featured in the Financial Times, named as one of the 50 Most Inspiring Women in Tech in the UK. 

Outside of Chantal's business achievements, she is also a global advocate for disability-inclusive Cheerleading and is working to bring the sport to the Paralympics. 

Her work bridges music, tech, and sport to drive impact and innovation worldwide.

When I met her, and heard her story of trailblazing new paths in the sports industry, I was inspired to share her impact and ongoing advocacy for disability inclusion in sport.

I know you will be motivated and energised by her passion as a business leader, coach, mum and athlete. 

1. Chantal Epp's journey from music enthusiast to entrepreneur showcases the power of passion and resilience in building a unique business in music licensing. #Entrepreneurship #MusicIndustry
2. Discover how Chantal Epp combines her love for cheerleading and music to create innovative solutions for sports licensing, paving the way for new opportunities. #Innovation #Sports
3. Balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship, Chantal Epp shares insights on maintaining work-life harmony while pursuing ambitious goals. #WorkLifeBalance #Motherhood
4. Chantal Epp's commitment to disability inclusion in cheerleading highlights the importance of adaptability and creating opportunities for all athletes. #Inclusion #Cheerleading
5. Explore Chantal Epp's vision of bringing cheerleading to the Paralympics, a journey filled with challenges and the drive to create a lasting legacy. #Paralympics #Legacy

Social Media:

Instagram: @chantal_arisha https://www.instagram.com/chantal_arisha/?hl=en

Instagram: @paracheer  https://www.instagram.com/paracheer/?hl=en 

LinkedIn: Chantal Epp https://www.linkedin.com/in/chantal-epp/

Website: https://www.clicknclear.com/ 

Facebook: Paracheer International : https://www.facebook.com/ParaCheerInternational/

WIPO Award: Winner ClicknClear:  https://www.clicknclear.com/post/clicknclear-wins-2025-wipo-global-award

Transcript

Kirstyn DeVries (00:01.313)
Hi Chantal, it's so great having you on the podcast. Welcome.

Chantal Epp (00:05.157)
Thank you, it's really great to be here.

Kirstyn DeVries (00:07.459)
You know, I remember meeting you, I think it was in the second half of 2024, and we both found ourselves in the same room at a panelist event where actually you yourself were sharing your journey about how you got to where you are today and really, that stood out to me. And I was stood in that room listening about how you have brought a lot of your passions, Chantal, to what you do.

how you've overcome setbacks in your life. And I'm really excited to have you on today.

Chantal Epp (00:39.754)
Yeah, thank you. I'm sure there's lots to talk about.

Kirstyn DeVries (00:42.935)
All right, if we can start out by, can you take us through your personal journey in your career, Chantal, and what led you to where you are today?

Chantal Epp (00:51.958)
Yeah, so I've always been really into music. I started playing music when I was about four years old. And I always had this drive of being a leader. Like at school, I did all of the music related things and would be like a head of something or a leader of a group or whatever. And it was always something that I liked. And when you did those career days at school, I always wanted to be like a manager or a CEO or something like that. And

When I was 15, my mum started her own dental practice and I helped her. I did all of her marketing. I was her receptionist for a while. I did all of her financials and bookkeeping for way too many years of my life. And she really inspired me to start my own company. And it was something I was always really interested in doing, but I just needed to find the right thing. And so, you know, I went through school, I ended up going to university to study music because that was what I was really passionate about. And I really wanted to learn.

be involved in the music industry. My cousin was a Canadian country artist, singer, you know, and I enjoyed performing. I used to do musical theatre and all of that, but that wasn't really my plan. I wanted to be more on the business side of things. So I went to university to learn and understand a bit more about the music industry. And it was actually there I started my first company, which was a music production company making music for cheerleading routines.

And I started doing cheerleading at university as well, got grabbed at freshers fair to give it a go, fell in love with the sport. Now a massive passion of mine and led to me becoming a two-time world champion cheerleader. And, and so my coach said, Hey, you should really do the music for our team and for competition. was like, well, you know, I'm learning about music industry and I, can do a module on music production. So I'll give it a go. And I started this.

production company called Synergy Sounds, which I then kind of took and worked part time on for a number of years until recently. And then I kind went into the music industry, was working in music licensing, which was a really interesting part for me. I fascinated by music copyright and the complexity of it and how that's literally how the music industry can make money, but it's such a challenging and difficult space that actually hinders people making money sometimes.

Chantal Epp (03:12.142)
And when cheerleading got sued by a major label, I was working for a music licensing company and it was the same week that that company went into administration. And so I kind of found myself in this position where I could tie my two passions together, music and cheerleading, to create a solution to the problem that they face. And they got sued for illegally editing and adapting music into a mix to accompany their routines, understanding licensing.

Kirstyn DeVries (03:36.609)
Right, okay.

Chantal Epp (03:39.128)
being a music producer for these kind of sports and a world champion cheerleader, I knew I could solve the problem and found it wasn't just cheerleading, but most other sports. And so that's when I decided to start ClicknClear. And that has been kind of my focus for the last few years, getting all of the record labels and music publishers on board to help streamline a licensing solution for cheerleading, dance, gymnastics, figure skating and other sports.

Kirstyn DeVries (04:06.851)
It's just so incredible. you know, as you're telling that story, I speak with many leaders across various industries and it's not uncommon that most of them have started an entrepreneurial initiative, tried out something whilst they were studying as one of the first things that they did. And I'm curious just to dive into that section for a moment. And how did you manage, you know, balancing studying, the cheerleading, launching that business and then having others follow you in that industry during that time of your life?

Chantal Epp (04:19.874)
Yeah.

Chantal Epp (04:37.804)
Yeah, I kind of always saw that as a practice company. And it was my way of exploring how do you build a company? How do you market it? How do you get customers? How do you get repeat customers? And building that. I think, you know, I just I actually did it as part of my university coursework. There were a couple of personal projects that you could do. And so I was able to basically do my degree on cheerleading and music. And so it wasn't taking too much extra time.

Kirstyn DeVries (04:42.423)
Okay.

Kirstyn DeVries (05:03.533)
That's incredible.

Chantal Epp (05:07.822)
I was doing that and I also was working part time for my mum. She was a very difficult person to leave company-wise. So I just managed doing that. I was training cheerleading maybe one to three times a week whilst at university and learning and growing and building.

Kirstyn DeVries (05:28.067)
Great. And it wasn't until 2017 roughly, wasn't it, when you launched Click and Clear? okay, yeah. So can you share with me a day in your typical life then as a founder? How are you managing your workload with Click and Clear? And if we were to look at your calendar, what's on there, Chantel?

Chantal Epp (05:32.856)
Yeah.

Chantal Epp (05:45.582)
Well, it depends on the week. It can be pretty crazy at times. My day to day is different almost every day. I do travel a lot. In some years more than others. Obviously in the pandemic, I couldn't do anything. So my days looked very much like back to back phone calls. But over the last few months, I've been traveling quite a bit. Again, I do have a lot of back to back calls. I try to get through my emails, which is a constant vein of my life.

tackling my ever growing list of to do items that I manage online through a whole system. And yeah, it's really just kind of working through managing my team, being able to be available for my team, but also speaking to external companies and customers. And it's just spinning a lot of plates, I'd say.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:37.665)
Yeah, absolutely. And when we were catching up for coffee prior to this, you were mentioning, of course, you're a mum to a little one as well. Tell me how you fit all of that in with the parenting and a busy schedule like this.

Chantal Epp (06:46.123)
I am.

Chantal Epp (06:50.538)
Yeah, so she's actually almost three now, which I can't believe. Three months, she'll be three. And yeah, it's definitely had to adjust my schedule. I used to have a very kind of clear routine in my morning of how I did my things. And I'd always have this time to get through my emails or some of my emails before starting my day. But now they have to get a little one out and ready. She goes to nursery four days a week at the moment. So there's one day a week where she's at home with us.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:53.335)
Wow.

Chantal Epp (07:20.058)
And yeah, you know, it's quite demanding having to get her out the door. It's quite a negotiation, especially if she doesn't want to go to nursery on a day. But yeah, I've had to kind of, in many ways, it's been really positive for my work life balance because it's forces me to take a break and spend some time just watching the world through her eyes and the simple things that she finds incredible, like looking at a rock.

and being fascinated by a rock, you know, it just kind of sometimes puts life into perspective. So my weekend, I don't work through the entire weekend like I used to. I still probably do four to six hours of work on each day in the weekend, depending on the weekend, but I kind of manage that around her schedule. So when she's having an app, I get a bit of work done and just try and find a little bit of time to build in that playtime.

Kirstyn DeVries (07:48.779)
wow.

Kirstyn DeVries (08:16.323)
And just one other thing on the family side, for the audience, I know that your partner is actually in the same industry as you and that you're both passionate about giving back in the area of sport and the area of cheerleading. Can you tell me a bit more about that?

Chantal Epp (08:29.07)
Yeah, so he founded Disability Inclusive Cheerleading and got that into the International Federation, the International Cheer Union World Championships in 2017. And we actually met on Team England there and became a stunt duo. And we traveled all around the world building Disability Inclusive Cheerleading in about 18 different countries. And more recently, we've started building the first ever Paralympic eligible team.

Kirstyn DeVries (08:44.067)
incredible.

Chantal Epp (08:56.334)
to hopefully go and showcase next year at the World Championships. And so that's now a really big thing. So yeah, he works in sport. So there's a little bit of crossover there because of course my market is in sports. And so his full-time job is in sport governance for British fencing, but he does this cheerleading thing that we both do really on the side as a charitable thing that we do together to kind of follow through with this life plan and legacy of

Kirstyn DeVries (09:00.097)
Amazing.

Chantal Epp (09:25.676)
getting cheerleading into the Paralympics to really create new opportunities for athletes.

Kirstyn DeVries (09:32.952)
Wow. And Chantel, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on because when I think of people that are going after bold goals, trying to push something up through a global organization like that is definitely not a small thing. So I'm so excited to watch how you progress this forward. Now, many of our listeners are leading in business and sport, also in creative industries, and they're trailblazing new paths like you are. And there's a commonality in all of those stories really that

Chantal Epp (09:45.121)
No.

Kirstyn DeVries (10:00.151)
Those people, we all have breakthroughs, we all have burnout moments, and we bounce back. Can you tell us about a moment when you got thrown off pace, either professionally or personally, and what happened?

Chantal Epp (10:05.826)
Yep.

Chantal Epp (10:12.411)
Yeah, it happens regularly. I experience a lot of setbacks and they're always challenging to overcome, even when they're small. But one of the main ones, I don't want to talk too much about the kind of business ones at the moment, but one of the main personal ones that's a constant daily reminder in my life is I bought a house about four years ago and a year later it started subsiding.

and we started getting cracks all around the house. And as it turns out, the foundations have actually completely failed and the house needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. But we've been in a three year battle with the insurance company. And it's draining, know, like I'm literally living in my home, which is crumbling around me. Maybe there's a little bit of a metaphor with setbacks and stuff there. And so I constantly

Kirstyn DeVries (10:58.051)
Mm.

Chantal Epp (11:04.106)
having to find ways of being more resilient. I recently brought on board a mindset coach who's also an athlete. She's an adventure athlete, incredible woman, and she's helped me kind of build a toolkit for resilience so that when I experience these setbacks, which happens so often, I can try and quickly move through it and find clarity again to kind of focus back on my mission with a positive winning mindset. And it is hard when you're constantly reminded of

Kirstyn DeVries (11:33.272)
Mm.

Chantal Epp (11:33.934)
Today, my hot water broke. I have no hot water. I haven't even been able to have a shower. And in January, our boiler broke completely and we actually almost died of carbon monoxide poisoning. It's actually when I decided to bring a mindset coach on because the day after I met this woman and she's really, really helped me kind of build and grow and kind of get myself back on track when these horrible things happen.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:46.264)
my goodness.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:59.908)
And I really appreciate you sharing that story. I know we spoke about it a little bit earlier today and you know, it's a really vulnerable thing to actually mention, you know, what's going on in your personal life that could actually take a knock on effect to a lot of the things that you're delivering in the public eye. And of course that must be extremely difficult. And you touched on it a little bit, but is there anything else in addition to your mindset coaching, like a system or a habit or a routine that pulls you back whenever?

something feels off course, like in this scenario.

Chantal Epp (12:31.91)
Yeah, so for me it's exercise. I mean, I love cheerleading, but I can't always go and just do cheerleading because you need a team. But I go out for a run. I actually don't like running, but I do it for my mental health. And I live kind of in the countryside. I can see the sunset on the horizon from my house. So I go out running on the riverbank. used to do that a lot more when I didn't have a toddler. It is harder now. But yeah, when I get very stressed or overwhelmed, I just try to stop.

Kirstyn DeVries (12:34.499)
Mm.

Kirstyn DeVries (12:38.691)
Absolutely.

Chantal Epp (12:58.41)
and just go out for a run and clear my head. I've now started trying to build exercise into my diary as like a meeting, you know, so blocking my diary that is not movable. And if I have to move it, it still remains in the day somewhere, somehow in some fashion. And that has really helped me stay on track.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:20.279)
That's great. mean, yeah, one of the commonalities with a ton of the guests on this podcast is moving the body in some way, shape or form. And it's different for everybody, right? Not everybody's a runner. As you know, I'm a long distance runner and it is something that really does clear my head, but often, you know, I can use it for other things like feeling like if I need to fight through something, I mean, it it can hold different emotions when it's needed to. And I love that you put time in the diary for that and that you fight for that. And I believe that.

Chantal Epp (13:38.988)
Yeah.

Chantal Epp (13:48.428)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:49.762)
that this audience can really take that away. So tell me, how do you know then when it gets this busy, when it's time for you to push harder and when it's time to pull back?

Chantal Epp (14:01.515)
So I push harder when things get tough or if I'm like super excited about something and I just want it to happen immediately. So I just push, push, push, push, push until I get that success or until I break through that moment. Do I have an example? mean, yeah, recently, I'm not going to show this specific example, but recently we had some bad news.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:16.611)
Do you have an example of something like that?

Chantal Epp (14:25.442)
all around the Paralympic, team that we're building. And so we just immediately took action, you know, immediately put together the, the sort of plan and the next steps and how we're going to tackle the problem that we were experiencing and how we're going to work through that. And then for me, it's actually part of my resilience toolkit is to take action. because then I feel like I've made a step forward. and that really, really helps, but at the same time,

everything is raining down on you, you do need to take a break and I've had a lot of bad news in the last couple of weeks, also had some really great news. I also been applying for this grant application recently, was up until midnight on Tuesday evening, working almost every night for the last week, so by Wednesday, yesterday, I you know what I'm just going to take half a day off because I need to just clear my head, get clarity,

bring some joy and happiness back in. And I went, did some cheerleading with my partner and my toddler came along and she loves cheerleading. Yeah, she was a regular at my team England trainings earlier in the season. And we spent some time playing with her and I just took some time off, had some family time and that really helped me and I feel a lot better today.

Kirstyn DeVries (15:28.738)
Great.

Kirstyn DeVries (15:42.18)
There's two things that stand out to me there. And first one is sort of you having this self-awareness of the almost line in the sand of understanding that day when you needed to take a half day off. And I mean, I will be the first to attest to, know, Kirsten 10 years ago could have never taken a half day off. And it's taken me till my mid thirties to be able to actually have that conversation with myself. So I'm curious, Chantal, what, what, what, you know, in your early cheerleading career, could you have done that? Is that a habit you would have taken on or is that something you've learned as you've gone?

Chantal Epp (16:01.645)
Yep.

Chantal Epp (16:11.95)
It's definitely something I've learned as a coping mechanism. You know, and also out of necessity because I have a toddler and especially on a Wednesday, she's at home with us, I can't just work the entire day. So there are times where, you know, I have to just make sure that I'm taking time off and being with my family.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:14.947)
Mm.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:33.751)
Yeah. And the other point there, right, is spending time with people that you love. That's the second thing I wanted to know is, getting around people that bring you energy, that fill you up and, and often, creative people or children. I mean, it can all just bring life, can't it? Amazing. So just moving forward as a connector of people I have found, that I benefit from reaching back into my network in moments of challenge, throughout my life. And I can attribute some of my

Chantal Epp (16:47.148)
Yes, absolutely.

Kirstyn DeVries (17:00.727)
biggest growth moments to incredible mentors back in Canada, over in Australia where I used to live, and now here in the UK. So is there a person that has deeply impacted your journey and what have you learned from them that you still carry with you?

Chantal Epp (17:15.691)
Yeah, there's a couple that come to mind immediately. And one of them is Dave, Dave Walsh, who was my very first angel investor and actually works me full time and is in my day to day. He's been an incredible mentor really teaching me all about building and growing a business and kind of filling in the gaps of my knowledge that I didn't have because he's already got 30 years of experience more than I do. And so and he's also one of the

key things actually that I think he's taught me is not reacting immediately. You know when you get, you know when you get a shitty email and you just want to write a shitty email back and it's all just a bit emotional and a bit like you're really just getting angry back at them and I'll never forget I wrote this email I drafted it him and I sent it back to him he goes no no no you can't be doing that give it two more days write this again and then we'll see.

Kirstyn DeVries (17:47.165)
Incredible.

Kirstyn DeVries (17:58.553)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (18:11.665)
what a great, great piece of advice.

Chantal Epp (18:11.782)
And yeah, and he's really taught me. Yeah, he's really taught me to when you get a crappy email, sometimes I actually just don't respond because it's not necessary. And other times I respond with kindness and that is always the best way to deal with people bringing you down. So that's one of the big things. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (18:28.353)
Yeah. And actually, can we touch on that for a minute? And I know it's probably, you know, it's a couple of years ago now, but you have actually been acknowledged publicly for your acts of kindness through various awards. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Chantal Epp (18:41.358)
Yeah, so the women of the future, they had the kindness and leadership awards, it must have been in 2020 or 2021, but I was listed on that list as a rising star or something for kindness and leadership list, which was released in the Financial Times. So that was an amazing recognition. But I really do try to lead my team with kindness and empathy and collaboration, because I believe

in supporting people properly rather than screaming at them. You just you build a better, more tight knit, knit and productive team. That's the way I want to be treated. So yeah, that's really important to me. And actually something that my partner Rick and I talk about a lot is kindness in sport, like kindness and coaching. You sometimes have coaches who are just like, telling, you know, shout at people and do this, do that. Not good enough. You're not good enough telling you negative things, but actually in supporting people through kindness and, and

Kirstyn DeVries (19:19.137)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chantal Epp (19:38.488)
building their confidence, you build better athletes with a better athlete mindset who can be more resilient.

Kirstyn DeVries (19:45.387)
And do you both come at that with different approaches? How do you come at teaching that sort of thing? Because it can be quite ethereal to people. Can you tell me a bit more about how do you teach kindness in a coaching environment?

Chantal Epp (19:56.246)
Yeah, I mean, I think we probably have similar styles. I'm a little bit more like straight and stricter. But we both, we both have a very similar style in that respect, where it is about helping and supporting people. And I think it's really just around the way that we talk to people and talk about coaching and how to it's asking people questions. How does that feel? Are you okay with that?

This is what we're planning on doing. This is when we're going to have a break. Does anyone have a problem with that? You know, it's actually giving people some autonomy in their training, which I think builds more responsibility in themselves.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:35.715)
Yeah, I love that.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:41.697)
I love that. You had mentioned there might be a second person that you wanted to touch on that's impacted you.

Chantal Epp (20:45.422)
Yes, that second person is my partner Rick because he is such a kind and genuine person. He's also very, very like straight talking. There's no kind of second meaning to what he's saying. just it is it is just fact. And he but one of the things that he's really taught me is very, boundaries is very, very clear with his boundaries.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:49.088)
great.

Kirstyn DeVries (21:06.199)
Yes.

Chantal Epp (21:12.506)
And I really respect that. And it was something that I've never been good at, either putting boundaries for myself or in place for others. And that's something that he's really helped teach me. And that's helped, I think, also manage the day-to-day stresses that happen and being very, very clear about where I stand on certain situations or certain positions.

Kirstyn DeVries (21:34.605)
Yeah, I love that because what I hear there is that you guys have this partnership where you're really sharing the skills that each other almost don't have and the other person absorbing that thing into their life so that they can apply it. And I think that that is really inspirational, especially with the busy lifestyle that you're living and raising a toddler.

Chantal Epp (21:51.532)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's also has taught me a hell of a lot about disability inclusion, which of course comes naturally with being empathetic and being kind to others. And I think he's really helped me with a lot of my leadership skills, build and grow.

Kirstyn DeVries (21:57.251)
Mmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:09.485)
Can you give an example for the audience of something that might be not knowledgeable in the disability inclusion space that they might take as a takeaway that Rick might naturally teach?

Chantal Epp (22:21.154)
Well, I think some of it is really adaptability. And, know, when many disabled people, depending on the disability, there is always some sort of barrier in terms of accessing or contributing to society, where society just isn't made for you. So, for example, he's a wheelchair user, there are shops that sometimes he just can't go in. And so you have to constantly be creative and think of ways to adapt from a problem.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:23.479)
Mm.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:42.935)
Mm-hmm.

Chantal Epp (22:50.318)
I mean, I think most disabled people are incredible problem solvers because they're having to deal with all of this and very resilient, dealing with a lot of negativity. And so I think that is something that is probably the key skill I would say is adaptability and specifically in cheerleading, we've adapted skills that athletes who don't have a disability can do to find ways of doing it as a wheelchair user.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:18.593)
Yeah, and I'm really excited and hopefully we can share in the show notes some links of how you guys actually do that in practice. And I think it would be extremely inspiring for our audience. Now, Shantel, what is a vision or goal you're working towards that scares you just a little? And what does that stretch demand of you?

Chantal Epp (23:24.152)
Yeah.

Chantal Epp (23:36.312)
I mean, I think all of it, there's kind of two pathways that I have. I've got one, which is a company that was clicking clear. And that's scary because I'm doing something that no one has ever done before. Creating a new market, building a new revenue stream, and building technology that no one has pieced together before as well. So it's scary leading the path to an unknown destination, but it's also very rewarding. And then the other side of it is the cheerleading pathway, which is my hobby and my charitable work.

And that is building a Paralympic team and helping the International Federation get Paralympic recognition so we can eventually see cheerleading into the Paralympics. And that is scary because I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know what politics we're going to have to deal with along the way. There's always a lot in sport. And I just don't know how long that's going to take and what is going to be required of us.

to make that happen, but we want to make it happen. So we are taking every step that we can to see that through. And again, like click and clear, leading a path that no one has ever taken before to an unknown destination.

Kirstyn DeVries (24:49.613)
Can you give an example of in leading click and clear like a roadblock that you've faced recently where you've had to really push through?

Chantal Epp (24:57.526)
A roadblock.

Yes, I'm not sure I want to share that one though. So I mean,

Kirstyn DeVries (25:08.653)
We can also take the angle of going towards the Olympic team, which is also incredible if you want to speak about something in that light as well.

Chantal Epp (25:17.43)
Yeah, I mean, I think I can probably talk a bit more about that because I don't want to share some of the confidential business information. But with the Paralympic team in particular, we have had we had a major setback in the last few weeks, and that completely changed our kind of plan and timeline, I think, or potential vision for

for the team and well really our whole vision, it disrupted our vision and we've had to sort of readjust and figure out how we're going to move forward from there to still see this through and still achieve what we're setting out to achieve to create new opportunities for people who haven't had them before.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:05.195)
Interesting. I was speaking with an entrepreneur. No, and it can be.

Chantal Epp (26:06.56)
Yeah, always politics, always politics involved and other people getting in the way and it's often other people getting in the way. mean, even my quick and clear example is another person or company getting in the way that then blocks you from being able to get to that next step. And when someone puts that wall in front of you, you've got to just find ways to bash it down or jump over it.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:30.499)
Yeah, and that's the really thing I love about entrepreneurship is, you speak to people sometimes in bigger organizations and if they'll hit that wall, they actually stop there and say, that practice, that rule or the structure is actually going to hinder me. Okay, stop. And what I love is when you tell this story is in both examples, you're finding ways to bash down those walls.

And it sounds like in the background, and I know you haven't specifically said it, but it sounds like it relates a lot back to that resiliency piece you were speaking about earlier.

Chantal Epp (27:02.658)
Yes. It's resilience and adaptability. So I've hit a wall. I need to find a way through. So I need to adapt. Do I need to go get a ladder? Do I need to find a rope? How about climbing other humans to get over this wall? You know, what are the other tools that are around you that you can use to climb over the wall? Do I need to get a hammer and just start bashing and chip away at bashing this wall down? So it's adapting to that situation. And then the resilience piece is keeping at it until you get through.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:06.36)
Mm-hmm.

Chantal Epp (27:31.958)
And for me, it's about just seeing small moments or small pieces of success.

That's how that is kind of what keeps me going forward. If I'm continuously knocking down a wall, nothing is happening. I need to change the strategy.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:49.923)
or change the direction perhaps yeah

Chantal Epp (27:52.308)
change direction. Yeah, maybe you need to go around the wall, not through it or over it.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:58.27)
Super interesting analogy. Now it links back to, you know, sort of sport in general. you know, in my sport of long distance running, I often train for weeks and even months preparing for a long distance race. And as you would be, you know, in the Paralympic world, preparing the team over a long period of time for athletes getting ready for these competitions. And we know, at least in the area of sport, that there are often things we do that are unseen, that are the things that are preparing us.

for the stuff that people see. So can you tell the audience, perhaps, do you have a habit or something that you're doing with intentionality that is perhaps unseen that's driving your success?

Chantal Epp (28:37.728)
I just constantly work and plan. And there is there are hardly any hours that go by in a day where I'm not either thinking about all of my plan, you know, if it's clicking clear, or it's cheerleading, or it's my life plan, I'm constantly planning and changing that plan and adjusting it based on situations that are happening. And I just I believe success is silent. It's the days that you work or train when no one else is watching.

that help build your success. And so I just keep plugging away when no one else is watching, knocking down that wall piece by piece, step by step to make progress and see it through.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:23.191)
And can you tell me what are some of the things you're looking forward to sort of over the next year in these things that you're driving forward?

Chantal Epp (29:31.534)
So, Click and Clear is about to announce some very exciting news, hopefully a couple of really exciting news. So I'm very much looking forward to that in this next year. We are up for an award with the World Intellectual Property Organization Global Awards, which is the UN agency for inventors and creators innovating in IP and applying that to real world cases. So we've been recognized for our contribution to IP.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:53.379)
incredible.

Chantal Epp (30:00.334)
which is super, super exciting. And so hopefully we'll win that award, we'll see. But yeah, we've also got a much bigger catalog of music coming onto our platform, which will make more music available for athletes to instantly license it for their routines. We've got a whole new kind of tech platform that we've been building, which expands our market completely. So I'm really excited to seeing where that goes over this next year and closing some new deals.

around that implementing that new technology. We actually and that technology was supported by Innovate UK. So we won a government grant to help us build it. Thank you. And then this time next year, hopefully we'll have seen the first ever Paralympic eligible cheerleading team at the World Championships, tested the classification system, worked out, ironed out all the details there so we can start to help all of the other countries build their own teams.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:38.52)
Congrats.

Chantal Epp (30:58.164)
and work on that application for Paralympic recognition. So that's very much the next year and what I'm hoping we'll see.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:03.179)
incredible.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:08.865)
And I know that you do a lot of travel because of this and a lot of this work is international. You were saying earlier when we were having our catch up that you're finally, I think, spending some time at home for a little while rather than getting on an airplane all the time. What are you most looking forward to in this phase?

Chantal Epp (31:11.714)
Yes. Yeah.

Chantal Epp (31:24.994)
You know, it's just being at home, watching the sunset from my garden, going out for runs, being with my toddler, being with my family, just spending some time at home in my space and having to rush around and be busy talking to lots and lots of people. Despite my house completely crumbling down to the ground, it is very much my safe space. It's very much where I kind of come to to reset and relax.

once I close my door in the office, you know, the environment that we're in is very peaceful because you can see the horizon, it's all field and it's just beautiful. And so, yeah, I'm just looking forward to having some calm. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:55.778)
Yes.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:07.725)
Yeah, absolutely. And often when we're in an area of calm, it can allow us to reflect. And so that leads me to my last question that I ask all of our guests on the show. Chantal, what does purpose mean to you right now?

Chantal Epp (32:22.35)
strong belief in achieving something and for me it's helping the music industry grow by creating new revenue streams and then on the cheerleading side it's creating a legacy with my partner to eventually see that through to the Paralympics, creating new opportunities and funding for disabled athletes at all levels of the sport and it's you know it's those purposes that drive me to jump out of bed and get going on my day every day.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:53.395)
incredible and all of the examples that you've shared really do you know sort of humanize the things that go behind the scenes when you're doing things from raising a family to running a business to leading athletes and also competing as an athlete yourself and training others. I love that because you know throughout that thread there one thing I'm going to take away is the mental resiliency and

also the movement of the body and how you keep that as a rhythm in your lifestyle. So if people want to follow your journey as you go after these bold goals, where can they find you?

Chantal Epp (33:31.246)
So my personal Instagram Chantal underscore Arisha, you can get me on LinkedIn Chantal Epp. And then if you want to follow Click and Clear, then that's just Click and Clear underscore on Instagram and on LinkedIn and Facebook probably too. And then if you want to follow the sort of Paralympic journey, that'll be through Paratheer International. And you can find us on Facebook.

or on Instagram, which is just at ParaCheer, P-A-R-A, cheer.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:05.315)
Great. Well, it's been incredible having you on the show today, and thank you so much for your time.

Chantal Epp (34:09.89)
Thank you so much. enjoyed it.