Ep 12. / Drew Dugan - Founder DVLP Academy, Music Producer, Educator

In this episode of "Pace & Purpose," host Kirstyn DeVries sits down with Drew Dugan, founder of DVLP Music, to explore his transformative journey from addiction to entrepreneurship. 

Drew shares insights on personal development, the power of music, and the importance of embracing one's true self. 

Tune in to discover how Drew's experiences have shaped his mission to inspire and educate others.

Drew Dugan is a music producer, educator, and founder of DVLP Academy, a cutting-edge music education hub based in Denver, Colorado. 

His lifelong journey with music began at just three years old when he first picked up the drums - a spark that grew into a career blending technical mastery with creative vision.

Driven by the belief that true growth happens when skill is paired with mindset, adaptability, and personal evolution, Drew created DVLP Academy as more than just a music school. 

It’s a space where artistry and personal development intersect. Through mentor-based training and immersive, real-world environments, students gain hands-on experience across every stage of modern music production - from songwriting and sound design to mixing and mastering - using industry-standard tools like Ableton Live and Pro Tools.

Drew’s own life embodies the philosophy of developing yourself: he is over nine years sober, has lost more than 100 pounds, and now runs marathons. For him, “The purpose of life is to develop it” isn’t just a statement - it’s truly a way of living. 

At DVLP, students and artists are encouraged to embrace that same mindset, using creativity not just to build careers in music, but to fuel personal transformation, resilience, and lifelong growth.

I really enjoyed this conversation with Drew, about his journey from addiction to entrepreneurship and personal growth.

Instagram: @thedrewdugan

Instagram: @dvlpmusic 

Website: https://dvlpacademy.com/

Transcript

Kirstyn DeVries (00:01.471)
Hi Drew, how are you?

Drew Dugan (00:03.854)
You're doing well, how are you?

Kirstyn DeVries (00:05.749)
Good. It is so incredible to have you on today's podcast. It's, you know, actually a sunny day here in London and, which is quite good. Cause I've gotten back from Colorado and was used to having that nearly 300 days of sun when I've been there for the last three months. So, I'm sorry, we could not be recording this in person cause I know you're based over there. but I'm really looking forward to, having the conversation today about not only, the work that you're doing in.

DVLP music, the running that you're doing, the development that you have worked on and just your personal journey to inspire entrepreneurs and athletes alike. So welcome.

Drew Dugan (00:45.922)
Thank you so much. It's great being here. Glad it's sunny there. It's definitely also sunny here in sunny Colorado.

Kirstyn DeVries (00:56.459)
Perfect, and we're recording this just after you've gotten back from quite a big trip. So I'm hoping that we get into why you've been away in Hawaii in a moment, but maybe to kick us off for the audience, can you start out by taking us through your personal journey in your career and how that's led to where you are today?

Drew Dugan (01:15.778)
Definitely, yeah. Hawaii was fun. We'll circle back there. And start back way, way before then. I am 10 years sober and well, just about actually. So 9.5 years sober and have gone through a lot of addiction, various substances and things. And I have worked a lot on my self-development and

Kirstyn DeVries (01:19.659)
Please.

Drew Dugan (01:45.55)
a company called DVLP or develop right so it's a music production college technical trade school here in Denver Colorado we also are a production studio so we we produce music for artists in addition to other forms of media video things of that nature we're kind of flexible in what we do very creative and our focus is helping people

develop either themselves or their skills through either doing it for them or teaching them or doing it with them. We also help with like marketing and helping people create their brand and vision and developing that as well. Our tagline I recently finally came up with is that the purpose of life is to develop it. So I think that's really one of the cornerstones of life is to

Kirstyn DeVries (02:35.498)
incredible.

Drew Dugan (02:41.55)
focus on growing and getting better. sounds cheesy, but I've done it the other way around and have focused on destroying my life previously. So I've tried it both ways. I have recovered from cancer as well years back, I don't even know. It's blurry before 10 years and back, but maybe 15 years ago that was now. I actually, after freshly getting

becoming sober. At the final time, I enrolled into a school under a different name in Denver that, or actually it was in Boulder, Colorado at the time, and was basically had no purpose at that time. I was freshly sober and didn't know what to do and ended up going to this trade school called KMG, which was the early version of what we are essentially.

Kirstyn DeVries (03:22.218)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (03:41.038)
It no longer exists, but there's a lot of story there. So I just really dug in and, you know, I guess you could say turn that into the addiction. As an addict, don't ever just fully recover and become cured, so to speak. You ended up pointing it in different directions or being able to manage it. And it actually is a huge strong suit or thing.

Kirstyn DeVries (03:53.61)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (03:58.603)
Mm.

Kirstyn DeVries (04:03.786)
Mm.

Drew Dugan (04:08.46)
that can propel you forward in your career and life and relationships because you go all absolutely all into stuff. And that's a major good. That's a great thing actually. So a lot of people that are yes. very much so. Yeah. You either do all or not. Everyone who knows me, Connor, my brother who introduced us, he, you know, I drew, know, you always all in or all or nothing. It's always or zero to 100.

Kirstyn DeVries (04:20.88)
Mm-hmm. It's like a blessing and an Achilles heel at the same time. Yes. Yeah.

Drew Dugan (04:38.552)
happens every day in my daily life is just who I am, but embracing who you are and then using that to do something with it. So in my case, helping create period, really create music, create strong skilled artists and producers at the school and develop something that's great and make an impact is the idea. But.

Anyway, at that school, KMG, really, I really just, that's all I did. I didn't have anything else going on at all. So I really spent all day, every day working on music production and engineering and getting very good at it and ended up becoming a teacher there. There's a quote by,

I think it's, man, now I'm forgetting, maybe Jim Rohn or something, but he says, work as though you're getting paid more than you are getting paid, so eventually you'll get paid more than you deserve, essentially. So basically, I was unhired and I just heard one of our teachers there, he was actually the owner there, say that, I kind of butchered that quote, but basically.

Kirstyn DeVries (05:55.689)
No, it comes through clear as basically, yeah, work as hard as though you're getting paid more than you are and you'll be recognized for that eventually. If I'm paraphrasing.

Drew Dugan (06:13.104)
there you are. You froze a little bit.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:14.034)
Yep. That's all right. We can always cut that part out. So don't worry. Let's just, yeah, let's jump in and maybe re, tell sort of when, when you heard that quote and then what you started doing.

Drew Dugan (06:23.618)
For sure, yeah, all good. I, as a student, like further on student, I essentially just showed up and started working there unrequested. So I was, you know, like sort of cleaning and doing stuff like that.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:38.473)
Yeah

Kirstyn DeVries (06:45.48)
Yeah, putting in work at the odd jobs, but you were present.

Drew Dugan (06:48.576)
Yes, yeah, yeah. So I basically started working even though I wasn't asked to work and just basically created it for myself, which seems kind of odd, but you have to kind of create your, I don't know, in this life no one's gonna just, hey, here's exactly what you should do. You gotta show up and do what others aren't willing to do in order to kind of create your own.

reality and future. So I just started working there, eventually became a teacher and then eventually became the CAO, which is a chief academic officer. And this was all pre-COVID. Ended up building out a lot of the curriculums there and teaching a lot of students. And, you know, at that point I was 400 pounds. So I've really only done this whole weight loss fitness journey. It's been back and forth over my whole life. I can lose and gain

Kirstyn DeVries (07:24.106)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (07:42.19)
30 pounds in a month, it's kind of crazy. But I ended up just really latching on there and becoming the CEO and a co-owner. eventually it became clear that I, the kind of owner wasn't into it and needed to, a change needed to happen. COVID really was the catalyst for that. And I didn't realize it earlier, but we had to shut down and move from

Boulder to Denver and, you know, two of the industries that got hit the hardest by COVID were music and education. So we were music education. So we made it through as that company somehow. most of the, most everyone jumps ship really except me and the owner. And anyway, fast forward a few years, it became pretty clear that a major change needed to happen. So.

Kirstyn DeVries (08:22.932)
Yeah.

Drew Dugan (08:40.782)
me and that owner agreed to shut the school down entirely. And that was about a year ago. It was a really crazy time. I had no idea what was going to happen next. I had put all my chips in this bucket. I had just gotten sober and then went all.

Kirstyn DeVries (08:56.444)
Mm hmm. Yeah. What did that feel like for you at the time? Was that did it feel like you were at the edge of a cliff, almost like trying to make the jump or, you know, were you excited? What was the feeling at that moment of transition?

Drew Dugan (09:08.846)
Yeah, and there's a lot more there. We can get in the weeds. It wasn't very good. Sometimes in business, people say it's just business and it gets weird. There's lot of emotions and feelings and percentages and it can get pretty hairy. So everything is fine with that other guy and it's no hard feelings. A lot of people feel otherwise, but things could have gone a lot differently and maybe smoother.

Kirstyn DeVries (09:30.1)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (09:38.286)
in retrospect, and I've learned a ton as a result of this and having to work my way up to the top ish of a company to running it and, um, kind of blind you could say, and then having to shut it completely down and everything and move everything out and have to then restart completely. It felt very, um, unknown, also I am very blessed because of my past and

Kirstyn DeVries (09:41.14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Drew Dugan (10:05.922)
being addicted to heroin and methamphetamines and all sorts of alcohol, all the stuff. I went all in with my past and addiction. I have the blessing of that, meaning that anything that's hard today is probably not that hard compared to that. Even the shutting down of a business and having to restart completely. Like that's hard, yeah, totally, but it's definitely not as hard as being addicted to heroin.

Kirstyn DeVries (10:21.513)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (10:25.929)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (10:30.771)
Yeah.

Drew Dugan (10:32.124)
So, yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (10:33.275)
Now, I'm curious there and if we can just tap into a little bit about sort of almost the that phase of your life where at that time, those were the addictive substances that you've turned to, right? You spoke about a few minutes ago about how these days you're able to channel sort of that excitement and intensity towards these passions that you have like your businesses and educating people. But, you know, put us back in the shoes of old you, if I would say.

Because I know that there's such a variety of entrepreneurs and leaders and family members that are listening to this who, even though they themselves may not have struggled with an addiction, you know, I'm someone that has never never had a substance addiction, but has had family members that have struggled with it or that have come from that past. And so I've seen it from a close distance. And I'm curious, can you put us in the shoes of sort of the old Drew and what his mindset may have been and, and maybe one of the bigger fundamental shifts that has happened?

internally since then.

Drew Dugan (11:33.814)
Most definitely. We can definitely pause the life story and talk about that in particular, because that's definitely a question that many people ask. And so many people say, hey, what did it? And the reason they want to know that is because they know John and Bob or cousin, uncle, sister, brother, or themselves that have an addiction. Everyone knows someone. There is no one that doesn't know someone. For sure, it's a huge major issue. People die.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:48.478)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:52.733)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:58.215)
Absolutely.

Drew Dugan (12:04.046)
Everyone knows it's a terrible, terrible thing. that note, know, I personally believe in, I came up with this idea that all humans are addicts in the sense that we are seeking pleasure and fleeing from pain. And really that's what addiction is, is like, if, you know, if you think of a, a gerbil or something, if they drink this thing, it feels really good. They're going to keep going back to it repeatedly and over and over and over because it's, well, it's really simple. It's a

Kirstyn DeVries (12:14.761)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (12:28.998)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (12:33.314)
chemical thing in the brain, also better than the alternative, which is not feeling good. we want, and I think nowadays we're in a comfort crisis. There's a book called Comfort Crisis. can't remember the, I think Michael Easter is the author that I recently read, but that's increasing more and more. our phones, we're addicted to our phones and so on and so forth. And for me, it's just the level at which you are an addict or have that kind of gene, so to speak. I don't know if it's a gene. There's a lot of different.

Kirstyn DeVries (12:46.181)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (13:03.146)
ideas there and opinions, but there was never like one moment where I was like, wow, I figured it out. It's repeatedly running into the wall over and over and over and eventually scooting to the side where there's a door and walking through it. most, unfortunately, most of the time people that are addicted to those substances and to that degree, they don't get, the opportunity to step aside and open the door because they don't make it. I'm very blessed to have made it.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:10.761)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:19.795)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:28.776)
Yeah.

Drew Dugan (13:32.719)
through a very supportive family and my mother in particular who is the last person essentially that really didn't give up on me. And so there's a lot of that which I'm very grateful for, a lot of luck I think too in some ways. mean, I'm not gonna sugar coat that. But really for me personally, just to get to the point, it came down to choosing to live or die. I mean, were lot people to that degree and then it was a

Kirstyn DeVries (13:44.265)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:49.651)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (13:58.345)
Hmm.

Drew Dugan (14:02.382)
big long journey from there forward. You get sober and most of the time gain a ton of weight. I got it to 400 pounds ish. You stop weighing yourself when you get that heavy. But, and you know, couldn't really like form sentences and just, was a rough road to recovery and not fun, but the alternative there was, it was that or not making it. It got really to that point. So they say it takes what it takes and that's true.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:09.065)
Mmm.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:20.061)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:28.201)
Yeah.

Wow.

So in that moment of transition where you come out of the one substances and then almost get into this other, I guess, spiral in a way, which was the weight gain. so was that what was contributing to almost the lack of speech and the inability to sort of interact? Was that all related to the health issues behind the weight gain at the time?

Drew Dugan (14:46.36)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (14:58.304)
I'm not behind the weight gain, just behind the mental brain recovery of the substances, you know, and obviously fast forward to today, I'm like can form senses and running a big business and help, you know, helping a lot of students and stuff. So very grateful to have made it through not only alive, but also, you know, not debilitated from, from those powerful substances and stuff. And that back to your point of switching.

Kirstyn DeVries (15:03.517)
Wow. Okay.

Kirstyn DeVries (15:10.576)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Drew Dugan (15:27.136)
Addiction so to speak, you know, it's not something it would be much more cool so to speak quote-unquote for me to Say yeah, it was one day and then I was cured now. I'm good forever but that's just not how it goes and that's not how it works and it's a daily process for me to be to really learn and develop myself and be a master of my own self in a sense that I can point

Kirstyn DeVries (15:40.681)
the journey.

Drew Dugan (15:54.955)
my power into a direction such as fitness and business and whatever else it might be.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:03.376)
Yeah. And how cool is it that your role and title in the C-suite of the business, KMG trade school was actually heading up education. What a dichotomy between being unable to form sentences years earlier and then being able to teach others from the ground up in this music immersion environment. I'm curious, what's the connection to music for you in this journey? And I'm coming onto that in a minute, cause I'd love for you to share a typical day in your life.

at the moment what that looks like. But curious on the music point and how that's been a thread for you throughout this journey.

Drew Dugan (16:38.86)
Yeah, I started playing drums at age three. My mom is a music therapist. She has her master's in piano pedagogy and she's an absolute angel. There is no one else in this world I'll talk higher of and is a big reason for where I'm at and who I am. And she teaches children and autistic people essentially, which there is no other grouping of people that you have to have more patients like to work with.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:45.383)
Wow.

Drew Dugan (17:06.798)
And she, that's what she does. She helps, helps those people learn music and movement in a therapeutic manner. My dad was a drummer when he was younger. So I've actually been in music my entire life. I went to a university of Denver for, yeah, surrounded by it. I had a semi, you know, some sort of scholarship to a DU for jazz drum set. DU is the university of Denver here in Colorado. And that's, that's all I've done, you know.

Kirstyn DeVries (17:18.492)
even surrounded by it. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (17:33.768)
Wow, that's really cool. So looking at sort of that trajectory and now with you running the business and you integrating also this element of health and wellness into your life, can you take our audience through a typical day in your life today? You know, how you're managing your workload and if we were to look at your calendar, sort of what's on there right now, Drew?

Drew Dugan (17:54.159)
Well, that's a great question. So I purchased a building in Denver in September of last year or a year ago. Thank you. This commercial building to build out into this academy. And we moved in and then realized there were some sound issues between us and the next door karate space. And anyway, fast forward, we've had to move out and have been under a major construction project. So bottom line for anyone who's listening to this is nothing will go as planned ever.

Kirstyn DeVries (18:00.924)
Congratulations.

Kirstyn DeVries (18:24.264)
Yeah.

Drew Dugan (18:24.366)
And nothing is as it seems, ever. And that's important to understand and embrace, in my opinion, because anything else you're holding on to, stuff going a certain way and it won't. So instead of, I think, surrendering to it going a certain, going how it ends up going is much more powerful and it's very difficult to do. But you'll learn one way either easily by taking the advice or the hard way by kind of trial.

trial and error. anyway, today now the first thing I do through my health journey, I've lost 150 or whatever, how much, um, and have gained some back and have lost a lot. I've been very lean and have now been lifting more and had to have a shoulder surgery. And so it's, it's the one thing stayed the same, which is, um, I wake up and I go to the gym and work out every single day. Um, I should probably take more rest days and stuff, but it's for me mentally and

Kirstyn DeVries (19:16.2)
Mm.

Drew Dugan (19:23.572)
I, when I first started, would take a picture of the treadmill and post it on social media every single day, so much so that some people were blocking my story, which is funny, I, just as a,

Kirstyn DeVries (19:32.424)
They always say though, you gain the followers that you're meant to have, right? So the people that leave when you post on social media aren't the ones you want there anyways. So that's all right.

Drew Dugan (19:41.133)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and so that's how I start. signed up for the nicest gym three years ago. It was July 7th, and that was the stake in the ground day when I was gonna drop the weight, et cetera. But we have my entire, you can see around me a bunch of major boxes, the entire commercial space, the business's equipment in my house, and we're almost done with the construction.

So no day looks the same right now. It's a matter of kind of juggling a lot of balls and plates to move back in and get the construction done and build out our curriculums for the school. Because again, we, press the full reset button about a year and a half ago and close the entire business. you know, and that's, like I said, a whole, whole bag of worms, but, so it's, it's, it's fun. I'll say that a lot of.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:37.02)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (20:38.062)
if you're on your toes types of days.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:40.58)
Yeah. I mean, and thanks for sharing that story because heaps of our listeners are running businesses themselves or are doing something on the side of a full-time job, even if it's going after a big goal in sport. so both of your examples there, you know, of not only the losing of the weight, but also with this loss of the space of the business and then having to find a new place and then really trying to gather your thoughts and your leadership team together to make all of this happen. I mean,

these are moments where we have breakthroughs, where we have burnouts and then we have to come back from them. so whether it's that example or perhaps another one, can you share a moment where you got thrown off pace, either professionally or personally? And what happened in that moment and how did you find that rhythm again?

Drew Dugan (21:24.29)
Yeah, it's a great question. think one of the major things was...

the building construction having to happen and having to move out. A lot of that was unplanned and very hard to manage and deal with. it was very scary in some sense. One of my favorite quotes is from hardship comes growth though. there's always a way perception is reality. And I think if something happens, you can look at it either negatively or positively. in our case, we looked at it as, okay, well, this gives us an opportunity to really dive in and double down on.

Kirstyn DeVries (21:32.456)
Mm.

Drew Dugan (21:59.203)
building our curriculums and getting some of our ducks in a row. And therefore it's happening for that reason. People say everything happens for a reason. What they don't realize is oftentimes you get to decide that reason and it can be a good reason or a bad reason, so to speak, right? And kind of owning that power. So that was the main thing. around that time was I had a prior student from KMG years back. He's now our manager. His name is Nick. He showed up.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:08.987)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:14.125)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Drew Dugan (22:28.482)
basically at front door and drove from Michigan and said, Hey, you saved my life so much that I saw what you were doing. and I'm here to help and just showed up out of the blue. so we've been rock and roll and since then now for many months. And, it's funny when, when a big breakdown happens, something there's some sort of, it triggers something else. Something else can happen that shows you're on the right path. And that in my case, that was Nick showing up and I was like, wow, okay, this is actually meant to.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:38.663)
Wow.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:43.141)
incredible.

Drew Dugan (22:58.382)
Otherwise, could look at this all as a sign it's all falling apart and not meant to be. I gotta, you know, it's this new building, we're gonna move in and have all this stuff and do all these things and open and it all has to all of sudden stop and none of it goes as planned. And so that was kind of what happened there.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:03.063)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:16.177)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:22.183)
Yeah, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, yeah, and when you shared that, I loved that quote, the from hardship comes growth. And I was chatting with my partner recently and we were talking about the concept of like, you meet friends and colleagues and people at certain times in your life where they almost can resonate on the certain frequency with what you've encountered or what you've gone through. And what's interesting, right, is Nick, who you mentioned who came back and worked with you.

Drew Dugan (23:23.904)
I can hear you,

Kirstyn DeVries (23:49.828)
he probably had seen what you had done to grow the school up in Boulder when you were at KMG and saw you through different phases of your professional and personal growth and therefore could almost meet you on the same level. And, you know, I do think there's a really big truth there because have you ever had it where Drew, you know, you're having a conversation with someone and you're kind of like, you could tell they've not actually been through any hardships and it's

Drew Dugan (24:16.046)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (24:16.921)
And it's not anything bad that you don't wanna stop talking to them necessarily, but you just can't get to a certain level. And I don't know if you relate to that. And if the people that come into your leadership team, I would imagine they tend to be people that have actually come across hard situations and overcame them.

Drew Dugan (24:37.688)
agreed. And I definitely know what you mean by talking to certain people and you're kind of like, wow, you don't realize this or that and not to any fault of their own. definitely, it's definitely a strong, can be a very strong thing to have on your tool belt, so to speak, of going through stuff instead of like a scar to hide.

Kirstyn DeVries (24:46.438)
No.

Kirstyn DeVries (24:56.113)
Mm-hmm.

Speaking of a non-negotiable, what is a non-negotiable habit or a system that you have in your personal routine that pulls you back when you encounter obstacles?

Drew Dugan (25:11.054)
Yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, it's exercise, daily exercise. I've had lots of different ones. When I was losing weight, was burn 1,000 active calories per day. It's 10,000 steps per day. Right now, it's...

Kirstyn DeVries (25:16.006)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (25:22.023)
Mm.

Which by the way, that's a lot of calories. mean, I will, when I do double workouts training for a marathon, I'm burning about 1200, 1300. I mean, it takes an exorbitant amount of effort to burn that many calories a day. And I have a coach that forces me to do it sometimes, but that's amazing.

Drew Dugan (25:38.169)
yeah.

Totally. mean, I'm at, I'm at eight 39 today. Um, I just had just got back from the gym and that's, that's the, that's the main thing. Everything else stems, everything moves around in the day is I wake up in the morning and go exercise. And when I don't, I feel absolutely, you know, kind of wild, like mentally it's such a meditative thing. And then also if you work out or exercise hard, like not in, not just a walk, but actually

Kirstyn DeVries (25:47.846)
Wow.

Kirstyn DeVries (25:51.823)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (25:56.284)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:03.569)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (26:10.99)
actually hit it relatively hard. Obviously some days change and there's different training, you know, we don't need to get into all of that, but everything else the rest of the day becomes easy, right? If you get your heart rate up to like 180 and you're pushing hard and a hit, you know, high intensity interval training session or running, and then you have, you know, some, business fire comes up at 4 PM later that day, there's no way it's getting your heart rate up to 180. So, you know,

Kirstyn DeVries (26:14.769)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:26.481)
Yep.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:36.263)
Yeah, you've already done that to yourself. Yeah.

Drew Dugan (26:38.986)
Exactly, yeah, so in comparison it can help kind of create that anchor.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:45.135)
Yeah. It reminds me when you're talking about this, of that concept in the, atomic habits book, which for those who haven't read that it's a credible book, but it's sort of the, the idea of becoming a person who dot dot dot, you know, exercises versus, you know, sort of the North American view of, know, where people take on these personas in, short bursts, whether it's, you know, a three month diet or a four month, you know,

Drew Dugan (26:54.987)
It's great, but yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:12.507)
book subscription or whatever it is, right? These things that have end dates on them. And when you speak about this non-negotiable of health and wellness in your life and often first up as your first thing in the morning, you're really embodying, you're a person who is fueled by exercise and who is a person that exercise is. It's part of your ethos. And I think that's super important to...

leadership and the fact that it will come across in as you mentioned when you're encountering big decisions in your day job in running the company in leading people as well. So how do you know Drew when it's time to push harder and when it's time to pull back? Do you have a barometer that helps make those decisions and can you say more about that?

Drew Dugan (28:01.358)
Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts on what you just mentioned and that. As far as that goes, I know two speeds. I know stopped or full bore. So I struggle with that and trying to find balance. And one of the things is knowing yourself and embracing it. So I don't hide from that fact. I embrace it and in the open book with it because I, you know, in order to develop yourself, you have to understand where you're at for better or worse.

Kirstyn DeVries (28:12.71)
Okay.

Kirstyn DeVries (28:30.128)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (28:31.022)
And so one of the things I'm working on is trying to find that balance to where I can have more speeds. I can go 70 or I can go 35. So I think relying on the people around me to mention, hey, you know, pull back or push harder is huge because they can see stuff objectively. Whereas you can only see it based on your own lens. For example, exercise and fitness. I get a lot of injuries because I just push hard, hard, hard every day.

Kirstyn DeVries (28:38.214)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (28:48.59)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (28:54.63)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (29:00.002)
and that isn't good, so I'm learning, but people will tell me that. And if I'm left to my own devices, I would just keep doing that and keep getting injured. So I think that's the answer there is how do I know is by relying on the expertise of others. And one quick mention on what you just mentioned with the Atomic Habits book, and I am a person that exercises, while things didn't work out as planned, I'm very grateful for that prior owner of the company because he helped set me on the...

Kirstyn DeVries (29:00.347)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:09.659)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:16.902)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (29:29.486)
trajectory and path of personal growth and self-development and one of the kind of quotes that he had I think taken from Jim Rohn who you know every all these things get kind of You know used and manipulated by different people in the space as these quotes a lot of it You know stems to simple things But is the idea of B plus D equals half so I think we're often

Kirstyn DeVries (29:32.057)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:46.8)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (29:52.102)
You

Drew Dugan (29:58.219)
sort of train to think of it as have plus do equals be. need to, for example, in my world, I need to have a recording studio in order to be a, in order to like do music production in order to be a music producer. When in reality, you need to decide that you are that person first. And if you are, if your ethos, if your being is a music producer, then what do do? You.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:11.91)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (30:25.984)
make you produce music, which means you will have a studio as a result, as a byproduct. Or one other example is in fitness, right? If I need to have a gym membership in order to exercise, in order to be fit, rather than if you are fit, if you are a fit person in your mind and you fully believe that, what does a fit person do? Well, they eat right in the exercise. Therefore, what do they have? Health, wellness, whatever.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:30.98)
Right.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:38.182)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:45.741)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:50.79)
So do plus B equals have.

Drew Dugan (30:54.946)
b plus do equals have.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:56.984)
Right. Okay. B plus two equals half.

Drew Dugan (30:58.604)
Yeah, so who are you, you know, deciding who you are first and you being, being, you know, if I, if it's, it's very hard to do and switch this around, but we're built and taught over time. need to have $5 in order to buy this thing to be whatever it gives me, very transactional versus deciding that you are a certain way. And then there, thereby doing things that that type of person does automatically, not that you have to try.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:15.462)
Hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:22.008)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:26.032)
So have you got us an example of where you've done that in your life and then where you've seen the manifestation on the other side?

Drew Dugan (31:32.109)
Yes, so with health and fitness and wellness, am, my B would be healthy. I am healthy and therefore what does that person do? They don't obviously do drugs. don't, they do go to the gym. So here's the do column. They do exercise. They don't eat poorly. Now I'm no saint and I fluctuate and have my

Kirstyn DeVries (31:34.692)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:42.608)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:49.648)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (31:59.991)
times where I eat poorly and whatever, right? I'm still a human. It's not a perfect, yeah, of course it's not a perfect situation, but as a result, I had or have lost 150 pounds. I have ran two marathons now and I have my health. was on a high blood pressure medication at one point. I've had sleep apnea, whatever, and been on like a breathing machine. I've, you know, all sorts of things and have, and now I'm not.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:00.806)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We all do. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (32:29.576)
And it's because I have become, so focus on who you are becoming.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:29.766)
Hmm. Wow.

Drew Dugan (32:44.163)
Yeah, I'm here.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:44.528)
We're back. Okay, perfect. Now this might be a good segue to just tell us for a couple of minutes about those two marathons that you've run. They're both long distance runners and you've recently just come back from running a marathon in Hawaii. Can you tell the audience a little bit about the first experience and then the one this year as well?

Drew Dugan (33:03.596)
Yeah, so my first marathon was Honolulu Marathon last year in December. Awesome marathon, know, 30,000 people, pretty cool experience. I had major leg spasms around mile 18 that I had to basically hobble through the remainder of it. Most people definitely wouldn't have made it and would have not finished. But like I told people, you'd have had to shoot me literally to not finish. So it was definitely a...

Kirstyn DeVries (33:19.791)
Oof.

Kirstyn DeVries (33:23.846)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (33:28.536)
Yeah. Mile 18 to 24 in a marathon is no joke. Like usually can get some like gusto in the last couple of miles because there's enough to people cheering, but I hear you. Yeah.

Drew Dugan (33:32.012)
Yeah. Yeah, and I've

Drew Dugan (33:39.151)
100%. And I mean, had my both quads and both calves were literally moving like a snake, full spasms, pretty wild. Definitely learned a lot in that moment just of pushing through and kind of doing it anyway. I, yeah, was definitely a, I was never a runner, but in my health journey, starting three or whatever years ago, I...

Kirstyn DeVries (33:46.982)
Mmm.

Drew Dugan (34:06.798)
had this shoulder injury I recently had surgery for. They call it weightlifter shoulder. Anyway, I couldn't really lift, but mainly when I grew up, I was playing football and I was American football. I was a lineman, a center and nose guard, which is those big, huge kind of fat guys you see on TV. Not to lean running back. I was always a bigger kid and was a lineman and not a runner by any means at all.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:13.414)
Okay.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:20.165)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:26.15)
Mmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:34.072)
All right.

Drew Dugan (34:35.98)
But with this shoulder injury and my weight loss, I just started, the only thing I could really do was run. And when I started off, it was run one minute, walk three or four. That was all I could do when you're like 400 pounds, you can like barely do anything. It's pretty terrible. Not fun. So I started doing that and just started running more and more and enjoying it, you know, because it sucks so much, you enjoy it so much kind of weird running thing, right?

Kirstyn DeVries (34:41.606)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:48.676)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (35:01.878)
Yeah, it's so true. like, eventually you kind of get past that. mean, I knew quite a lot of people that did couch to 5K in the pandemic. And that's, you know, a bit similar where you're really you're starting from nothing. And it is a huge undertaking to even just, you know, get up and go. And, you know, I've used running for different things. I don't know if you agree where, you know, sometimes you're out there and.

you hate it, but you love it because you need, know, you the endorphins for the next meeting that you've got. Or sometimes you're out there and you're actually processing something that's extremely difficult in your family or in your personal life. And you're using it as a tool or like other times I'm just like so happy because I'm in nature and I'm not listening to music if I'm in a forest or by a beach, cause I like to hear the noises of whatever it is, the waves or the trees or whatnot. So I'm curious, like, are there times where you have a different relationship with running and does it change?

Drew Dugan (35:57.893)
it definitely does. mean, sometimes it runs socks and you just have to get through it. it's a matter of like will willpower and, and finding a new sort of inner gear that you can reach in yourself to like power through to sort of become unstoppable that will carry over into other areas of life. Other times it's like just being outside in nature and it's, you know, feeling kind of like a little fairy, like running through the like field like we, it's like fun and you know, get the endorphins and so

Kirstyn DeVries (36:23.587)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (36:27.597)
Yeah. You wouldn't have wanted to see my face on the bear Creek trail on Sunday before I flew out because it was a painful run. So God, we glad we didn't pass each other in that run that I had. Yeah.

Drew Dugan (36:27.873)
Yeah, I think it's

Drew Dugan (36:34.058)
yeah, yeah, no.

That's funny, yeah, I'm with you there. was like the last 20 minutes of the Kauai Marathon, which has 4,500 feet of vertical. I just finished that on the 31st of August and it's, you know, known as one of the harder ones out there. It was extremely hard, very, you know, and I'm 250 pounds, so I am like very much not the marathon type, as far as build goes. I think the guy that won, you he did it in...

Kirstyn DeVries (36:44.761)
Kirstyn DeVries (36:48.515)
Wow, congratulations.

Kirstyn DeVries (36:54.821)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:04.517)
Mm.

Drew Dugan (37:08.686)
two hours 37 or something and which for that marathon is absolutely insanity, but he was probably like under a hundred pounds, like so incredibly skinny, you know, and I realized that at Kawhi that that's the big thing. If you want to run more longer, you got to have less weight. It like literally comes down to that. I've decided I have a lot of muscle and strength, but carrying it

Kirstyn DeVries (37:30.917)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (37:38.425)
for that amount of distance, it's really, that's what it kind of comes down to. least I had that realization. So I'm trying to build muscle and be a long distance runner at the same time right now. There are some people like Bear, I can't remember his first name, but that do that really well that are kind of just like animals. And that's what I'm trying to do, which are two competing things at the same time.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:40.292)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:51.566)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:57.551)
Mm-hmm.

You

Yeah.

Drew Dugan (38:03.598)
But I also proposed to my wonderful girlfriend while in Hawaii and used the marathon as cover for doing that, which was, we're going to Hawaii for this marathon and then proposed and she's very, thank you. So it was, it was extremely hard. I shaved off a lot of time compared to Honolulu and did it with 4,500 feet of vertical. About 3000 people sign up for it and about 2,900 of those do the half marathon.

Kirstyn DeVries (38:10.332)
Ha

Kirstyn DeVries (38:14.297)
Congratulations.

Drew Dugan (38:32.576)
and like a hundred do the full. And a lot of those people quit, I guess, too. So at mile 11 where the full turns, a lot of people were actually just stopping because it's so humid and so many hills.

Kirstyn DeVries (38:33.141)
my gosh.

Kirstyn DeVries (38:38.36)
Okay.

Kirstyn DeVries (38:44.719)
So difficult. Yeah. Wow. Well, maybe one to put on the list. It sounds like a grueling race, but congratulations. it sounds like you're not. Yeah, it sounds like more running is on the cards for you. So just jumping into the next question around, you you've shared a lot about different people and phases of your journey so far in this conversation. And as a connector of people, I've always found that when I reach back into my network, whether it's

Drew Dugan (38:51.618)
Beautiful, definitely highly recommend.

Kirstyn DeVries (39:12.345)
folks in Canada or in Australia where I lived or even in the UK where I'm based now, I can attribute some of my largest growth moments to just conversations with these folks and how they've impacted me over the years. So Drew, is there a person that has deeply impacted your journey? I know you mentioned your mom and would you be able to elaborate on that question and what have you learned from them that you still carry with you?

Drew Dugan (39:36.727)
Yeah, I mean, definitely my mother, she's huge. My father as well, he's a very amazing human that has instilled a fantastic work ethic. And then I have lots of amazing aunts and uncles and one in particular that's a very powerful businesswoman, very kind and gentle at the same time. There's not just one, so I'm gonna list a few.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:03.649)
Mm-hmm. Lest them all.

Drew Dugan (40:05.4)
You know, the trainer that I signed up to work with the day of going into that gym, they give you like a free hour session. He's helped tremendously and worked with me day in and day out, losing all of the weight and still see him to this day. Obviously that prior business partner, while things, like I said, didn't go as planned, you know, it's important to look at the positives of people that come into your life and hold that rather than holding on to anything other than that really. So.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:13.602)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:27.525)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:34.661)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (40:35.074)
That's always what I try to do with people, because you never know if they'll still be with you. Not like life or death wise, just if, you know, things just don't go as planned and happen and you never know. So kind of taking what you can learn from different people and carrying that with

Kirstyn DeVries (40:39.193)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:46.085)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:50.959)
So like that example that you just gave for, let me just double click on that. So is there someone in that list that you've just said where there's like a tool that you carry with you because of them?

Drew Dugan (41:01.602)
Definitely, mean the B2Have thing and then also how you look at life, being optimistic and positive, know, something I've gained from my mother in that sense, so.

Kirstyn DeVries (41:09.87)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. That's amazing. What's a goal or vision that you're working toward that scares you just a little? And what does the stretch of achieving that goal demand of you?

Drew Dugan (41:24.418)
Yeah, it demands everything. It's with the business building something where there's tons of students and clients and they're all developing and growing. it, you know, also maybe doing it, actually trying to like achieve a certain time in a marathon on more of the personal side, not the business side, rather than just finishing and really, really pushing some gears there to lock in and lean up a little bit after this.

Kirstyn DeVries (41:51.055)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (41:52.889)
past Marathon and realizing that, you know, I mean, obviously it's hard trying to do both things, get jacked and run fast and long at the same time.

Kirstyn DeVries (42:00.576)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I kind of agree with you where it's it's, you know, balance. actually quite enjoy weight training myself. And, you know, so I've done quite a lot of sessions recently in Colorado with a trainer that I have there. And but it is, yeah, as you do long distance running that that has to be a fine balance. And so.

Interestingly, so in the sport of long distance running, right, people like you and I, are often training for weeks or even months preparing for a race day. And so for athletes, we know it's often the work that people don't see that drives our personal bests. So I'm excited that you're going to be doing a personal goal for a time goal at some point. But can you for our listeners, tell us something that you're doing consistently, perhaps, you know, either in the gym or outside of the gym, that it's an intentionality behind the scenes that drives your success.

Drew Dugan (42:55.788)
Yeah, think calling, one thing that comes to mind, that's a really good question, but is calling specific people every single day. So, you know, parents or certain people, there are certain people that I call every single day without fail. And then secondly is exercising every, like that is a non-negotiable, obviously there are intentional rest days, but even then you can still like walk and have some movement. I think would be another one and.

Kirstyn DeVries (43:04.045)
Drew Dugan (43:25.646)
than reading books. So I have Audible and have read thousands of books now, tons of books.

Kirstyn DeVries (43:33.134)
What are you reading right now?

Drew Dugan (43:35.087)
I just read that Comfort Crisis book, which was really good. think Michael Easter is the guy's name. I just also finished, done with this book called Running on Empty, which is by Marshall Ulrich. It's an ultra marathoner story of love lost in a record setting run across America. So he ran 3,063 miles in 52 days at 57 years old. So he was running like 80 miles a day. It's his story of, I think in the 90s maybe, I can't remember when, but.

Kirstyn DeVries (43:57.348)
Wow.

Drew Dugan (44:04.11)
Pretty phenomenal book to listen to. mean, this guy's running 80 miles a day for like 50 or 60 days. And so obviously he's probably a stick, you know, very small and I'm 250. So it's a very personal sport and very different based on your build, but something like that's good to listen to. But always learning, focusing on growing and developing and trying to kind of move forward positively upwards and to the right.

Kirstyn DeVries (44:09.56)
cannot imagine that.

Kirstyn DeVries (44:16.068)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (44:24.036)
Right.

Kirstyn DeVries (44:31.352)
Yeah. And for someone like you that's an educator and training people up in the music industry and, you know, just being surrounded by young learners, it's so important to also be a curious being yourself. And so I love that you're constantly reading, and, that you're bringing sort of these new ideas to the forefront so that you can share them with others. let me just jump into one of my favorite questions on this podcast, which is what does purpose mean to you right now?

Drew Dugan (44:58.498)
Well, that's, yeah, it's fantastic question. Very hard to identify. I think some of those bigger questions like what is the meaning of life are almost intangible and hard to define based on the fact of them being just hard to grasp in general. But our tagline, like I mentioned, is that the purpose of life is to develop it. So whether it's, it can change from day to day, season to season, month to month on what you're developing, what part of you, maybe it's less running because you're injured.

It doesn't always mean the same thing, but the idea of growing and getting better and developing yourself is, know, that tagline even has the word purpose in it. So I think that would be my purpose right now is just developing myself, the business and my relationships and getting better.

Kirstyn DeVries (45:41.024)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (45:50.372)
Amazing. So Drew, if people want to follow your journey or the journey of developed music, where can they go and find you?

Drew Dugan (45:57.839)
100 % thank you for asking that. Would love to connect with anyone and chat or whatever that looks like. Teamwork makes the dream work and I'm always curious what other people are working on. And a lot of people don't know, a lot of people don't exist. So thank you for creating a platform to help, you know, push a certain mission, but also connect people. It's not an easy task. So thank you so much for doing this, but I'm, my Instagram is at

Kirstyn DeVries (46:20.427)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (46:27.01)
The Drew Dugan and that's D-R-E-W-D-U-G-A-N. Our Instagram for the school is DVLP Music, just at DVLP Music on Instagram. We're on all the various platforms, of course, and then our website is dvlpakademy.com and my email is just drew at dvlpakademy. So if anyone...

needs and it could be anything too. You know, it's if you have a cousin or friend struggling with addiction, reach out. I've learned that 95 % of people don't. I'll tell people all the time, hey, shoot me a text, send me a song for me to listen to and I can give you some feedback and it's easier not to, but I like to be someone who's extremely communicative and I make it a point to respond very quickly to people.

Kirstyn DeVries (46:57.655)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (47:01.699)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (47:08.515)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (47:13.827)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Dugan (47:24.998)
and make myself very probably overly available. But I like to do that based on how I wish it would be if it rolls reversed.

Kirstyn DeVries (47:32.995)
Well, thank you for being so open. I definitely feel that openness in today's conversation and really am going to take away that tagline that is your business tagline, which is the purpose of life is to develop it and to really be plus do equals have. mean, what a great sentence as well to just live by. This has been a really inspiring conversation, Drew, and best of luck with your wedding planning. Congratulations to you again. And I hope to speak with you soon.

Drew Dugan (47:58.627)
Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much, really appreciate it.