Ep. 23 / Clive Burcham ~ Founder, Compadres, Serial Entrepreneur, Dedicated Philanthropist, Public Speaker

In this episode of the Pace and Purpose podcast, Kirstyn DeVries reconnects with Clive, a seasoned entrepreneur and consultant. 

Clive shares his journey from a creative career in television to establishing a global consultancy aimed at helping entrepreneurs realize their potential. The conversation delves into themes of collaboration, the importance of purpose, and the balance between personal well-being and professional success. 

Clive emphasizes the significance of mentorship, the power of community, and the necessity of maintaining clarity in one's principles. He also discusses the transformative experiences that come from both breakdowns and breakthroughs, encouraging listeners to embrace their challenges as opportunities for growth.

Takeaways

• Clive's journey reflects the importance of following one's passion.
• Collaboration is essential for entrepreneurial success.
• Breakdowns often lead to breakthroughs in personal and professional life.
• Finding peace in nature can rejuvenate creativity.
• Daily habits and principles shape our success and well-being.
• Fear is a natural part of the entrepreneurial journey.
• Curiosity drives continuous learning and growth.
• Purpose should be bigger than personal gain.
• Mentorship plays a crucial role in personal development.

Sound Bites: 

• "Exercise is my non-negotiable habit."
• "Ambition is driven by identity and goals."
• "Find your purpose that's bigger than you."

Chapters

01:05
Clive's Journey: From TV to Consultancy

03:14
The Birth of Global Citizen and Collaboration

11:12
Balancing Principles and Priorities

14:24
Daily Life: From Overwhelm to Joy

17:04
Breakdowns Leading to Breakthroughs

19:59
The Role of Fear and Collaboration in Business

22:36
Curiosity and Lifelong Learning

22:56
Rituals for Resilience

25:31
Navigating Overwhelm and Finding Balance

27:43
The Impact of Mentorship

30:16
Vision and Ambition: A Scary Journey

32:22
Curiosity and Integrity as Core Values

36:26
The Essence of Purpose

About Clive: 

Clive was born into a third-generation farming family from South-West Western Australia. His entrepreneurial spirit ignited early, juggling four side hustles by the age of nine. This drive propelled him to write, produce, and direct his first television show at just 16 and launch Australia's record-breaking revenue-earning Comedy Channel as its Creative Director at 25. 

He even became one of the youngest producers of The ARIA Awards (think Grammys), demonstrating his innate ability to lead and inspire high-performing teams. By 30, Clive had garnered 30 international awards. Serving as an advisor and board member for entities like Rare Birds, Start Up Business Kids, Global Citizen, and Welleco. 

A serial entrepreneur, Clive has founded or co-founded ten organizations. His most notable success, TCO, achieved a 10x return in 4 years, upon its sale to WPP.

Beyond business, Clive is a dedicated philanthropist and compelling public speaker (SXSW, United Nations Foundation, Women In Tech Osaka, Unicef New York, The Marketing Academy ASIA PAC).

He is a founding partner of Global Citizen, the NGO juggernaut committed to ending extreme poverty which has redeployed $50bn USD.

Clive founded Compadres, a next-generation business growth practice, helping visionary entrepreneurs and leaders across diverse sectors, leading businesses with valuations around $500 million. 

Chairman to Amplify (ASIA PAC), Global Advisor to Women in Tech (Paris), United Nations Foundation (Washington DC), and Non-Executive Director of Adoreum (UK). 

Links: 

Website: https://wearecompadres.com/

Instagram: @wearecompadres

Transcript

Kirstyn DeVries (00:01.142)
Hello and welcome Clive to the pace and purpose podcast. I'm so happy to have you on.

Clive (00:06.659)
Thank you for having me.

Kirstyn DeVries (00:08.864)
Now, this is an incredible meeting because we actually have not seen each other in person since I think it was 2019. I know, and at that point, time flies. And in fact, I mean, both of us travel quite a lot. And the way that this episode came together, just for the audience context, is for many of you who've been listening to the series, I spend majority of my time in London, where I am based. And relatively recently, I saw that Clive had been traveling in the UK. And so...

Clive (00:16.418)
No. Time flies.

Kirstyn DeVries (00:37.42)
I had been wanting to tell his story and had thought that perhaps we were in the same city at the same time. due to a variety of moving parts, we were both in completely different countries when I messaged him. And so we just decided, let's go ahead and record the episode while you're all the way over in Australia and I'm in the US. So welcome. So can you please start out just by giving the context to the audience a little bit of your background?

Clive (00:52.045)
Yeah.

Clive (00:57.997)
everyone.

Kirstyn DeVries (01:05.662)
and Clive, your personal journey in your career that led to where you are today.

Clive (01:13.485)
I grew up in a country environment, a farming environment in Western Australia and left home as soon as I could, 15 and a half, got a job at a local TV station, taught myself how to write, produce and direct, produced my first TV show, I think I was about 16, and then produced a whole lot of other things along the way. For the next 15 years, I had what I would call a very successful

and productive, creative career. And then after about two years or two or three years in London and New York, I returned home, started my own business. That went really well, really quickly. Sold that to a holding company or part of it. Then I started a whole bunch of other businesses, incubated a lot of other businesses, including some NGOs, one of which is Super Accessible Global Citizen.

And I retired after spending a lot of time with my children in the country. I returned to my roots. I thought I was going to be John Dutton for the rest of my life, Yellowstoning. We bought horses and cows and the kids homeschooled and just had this incredible life. And then I got some DMs from people just saying, hey, can you help my girlfriend start her business? you know, will you be an advisor for this, you know, what is now an incredible business? So

I moved back to the city a year and a half ago and now I travel around the world every two or three months working with clients in New York, Paris, London, Singapore, which I don't visit though, and here in Australia. So I started a global consultancy and I work exclusively with entrepreneurs, helping them realize their potential. So my mission is to help millions of entrepreneurs. Obviously I'll use some technology to do that.

But that's my mission now because I think that entrepreneurialism driven by purpose will help solve some of the world's biggest problems.

Kirstyn DeVries (03:18.038)
That's incredible. And, you know, I'm just going to back up a little bit and sort of probe into some of those things in your earlier career, because I have this vision of you sort of clobbering up a bunch of interesting camera equipment or something in some of those early days. And I'm curious if you can paint a picture of, you know, a couple of the really early on businesses, because you're in the consulting world now at the moment and able to provide that insight. But can you tell me a little bit about what it was like in those early days?

Clive (03:45.962)
didn't know what I'm doing or what I was doing. I still don't really know what I'm doing. I'm just making it up like all of us. You know, the one thing about entrepreneurialism is most people start with a zero, rather than the fortunate few. you know, whether it was Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, you know, we all think that entrepreneurs are, know, white, weird males, but they're not. There's a whole bunch of other people out there. But I started out, you know, packing up cameras, or unpacking cameras.

Like I'm not technically blessed at all. Like somebody can never read instruction manuals. So somebody just shows me which buttons to press and after a little while I get the beat and I can, you know, create my music per se.

Kirstyn DeVries (04:28.533)
That's awesome. And I know you touched briefly on Global Citizen and I mentioned a little bit in the intro, but can you touch a little bit about on what that, when I met you, that's what you were doing. And so for me, this is sort of what was the draw when I was talking to you, although you're not as involved anymore. And can you talk a little bit about for people who haven't heard about it?

Clive (04:45.611)
Sure, think one of my gifts is I have a great intuition. And I think all humans have great intuition, you just gotta be attuned to it. We were famous for producing a lot of music, TV, TV programming and so forth. And we were approached to produce the Make Poverty History concert and met a guy called Hugh Evans and he was an impressive.

you know, charismatic guy. And in fact, he's just got more impressive and charismatic as he got older, as he gets older. But I think he might've been 24 or 25 at the time. And I remember him walking into my office. He'd obviously produced that event with two other people, Dan Adams and Simon Moss and probably some others I haven't mentioned. And I mean, walking into the office and I'm like, this guy's going to be prime minister. Anyway, we shared, know, a belief in the common good.

Then he and Simon Moss and Waiso begun something called the Global Poverty Project. And we used the same model of our Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth, which is create a presentation, go out and tell the story to a bunch of people and make a film from it. But we ended up didn't end up making the film. And that was the birth of global citizens. So we had them in our office in Redfern. And they, I guess, incubated to use a modern term.

lot of time, energy and money behind it. was pure passion. These young guys, they're going to end extreme poverty and now they've redeployed about $50 billion to help end extreme poverty. They're only just beginning. In fact, this year, 2025 seems like it was their biggest year ever in that they partnered with FIFA. They did more festivals than ever. They did more events than ever and had it.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:35.861)
Yeah.

Clive (06:39.903)
had a greater impact than ever. So it's awesome to, again, sit alongside amazing people with ideas. A person with an idea, with the right collaboration, can go on and help change the world.

Kirstyn DeVries (06:55.209)
Yeah, and I agree with that. I may have mentioned it sort of over our conversations over time, but one of my first jobs was actually in a technology business incubator where that exactly was happening. Now, you know, even formally before sort of the word incubation became a trendy thing, of course, that was kind of starting up on the California West Coast, but at least in Toronto, sort of in the way that you mentioned it, right? It was just people getting together and really collaborating on ideas and an environment where if you kind of throw the idea out there,

Clive (07:10.249)
Mm.

Kirstyn DeVries (07:22.772)
and give it a go and it doesn't work, sort of repivot and try something completely different, right?

Clive (07:27.742)
Yeah, I always say to people, you you pitch polka dots and you sell pinstripes, meaning, you know, what you think you're going to end up doing and versus what you end up doing a variety of vastly different. And incubation to me just is a formal term for collaboration.

So that's me. you know, borrowing from a book called Who Not How, which I recommend everyone reads, Dan Sullivan, and this is my version of what he says, but the quality of your life can be measured by the number of quality collaborations that you have. And the person sitting right next to you or the person in your sphere could be the rocket fuel for your idea. You just need to put it out there and ask that question, you know, who can help?

Kirstyn DeVries (08:10.027)
Yeah, that sounds great. what was the name of that book you recommended again?

Clive (08:16.105)
Do not have. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (08:18.239)
Who, not how. Okay, great. Now you were sort of talking about that moment where it was collaboration and it was probably a small group of folks that has now grown into what you've just mentioned and reaching global brands and, you know, serving people around the world. But how, and you touched on it a little bit a moment ago, but your sort of transition out of this whirlwind of a job that you sort of were working in in your thirties, so much global reach and

ultimately success. And then you all of a sudden went and got a farm, went out into the, um, the countryside and you receive these messages of people going, where are you Clive? What's going on? So, but before we come onto a typical day in your life, can you just take us through that moment? And then I'd love to hear about what you're doing in your day to day.

Clive (08:58.62)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Clive (09:04.007)
Yeah. Well, I think I had quite a traumatic childhood and I. The byproduct of that is, you know, overachievement and you don't have have a traumatic childhood to want to be an overachiever. so through that over an achievement and creativity and productivity, which soothes my anxiety, I burnt out. think in 2018, my central nervous system just went no more. And I went through periods of.

you know, by 12 o'clock I was shaking, my central nervous system was shot. And so there was a natural decline in my desire to do business. And my kids and I were spending a lot of time in the country, because in the country, in creation or nature is where you find peace. And where you find peace, you can find creativity as well. And so, you know, we're trying to buy a farm and I pressed the wrong button on a real estate website, which turned out to be the right button. And

Kirstyn DeVries (09:50.719)
Mm-hmm.

Clive (10:02.641)
It's spent, you know, we rented this place in the country and I went out there with my dog, Apollo, who's sitting behind me and I had a mattress on the floor and I woke up by a creek with, you the stars and I was just like, what the hell am I doing in the city? This is soothing my soul. So I rang my, you know, kids, wonderful mother and said, look, I want to move to the, to the country. Would you endorse the kids coming and living in the country? Cause my daughter was homeschooling at the time.

And she said, yes, so we had a magical life changing three years of, you know, the best time of our life in that they homeschooled, we rode horses in the morning, my daughter rode her horse to her job in the afternoon at a local stable over mountains. Like what 15 year old girl or boy wouldn't want to do that. So we had this incredible life. But it was a healing process for me and I recoiled the bow. So whilst I was up there,

I was reigniting and I didn't notice at the time, was reigniting my passion and resetting and healing on the inside from the trauma of running several businesses. It's not easy being a CEO and a founder and there's a lot of biological and scientific studies around the impacts of running a business.

Kirstyn DeVries (11:22.986)
Now you sort of took us through what that typical day might have looked like waking up on the farm. Can you juxtapose that of what a day looks like on your calendar either? It's up to you. What it maybe perhaps looked like when you were about to burn out versus what it looks like today.

Clive (11:40.776)
I mean, there's a series of founder afflictions, is from, again, global study. So 93 % feel overwhelmed, 71 % are lonely, 65 % have ADHD. So there's all these existing problems across founders, right? In other words, they're all a bit crazy. If you want to learn about yourself faster than you otherwise would, start a business. It's a true reflection.

You the bottlenecks always at the top if you're if you're having problems in your business. Look in the mirror.

So that's the first part to the answer. The second part to it was, you know, I was a very, very focused, ordered dude who had ADHD and a whole lot of ambition. So I would be onto it in the morning, overnight, you know, back-to-back meetings, but I always picked up my kids. Not always, but I'd say most days of the week, I'd pick up my kids. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (12:43.806)
You made it a priority. Yeah.

Clive (12:47.579)
So I was living an extraordinary life, but my principles, which is something I work with founders on now, is my principles were over the place. So whilst my beliefs were great, my principles and priorities were not good. So I put my... Yeah, of course. So your principles are an undeniable, indisputable fact of life. So versus your values, which are a behavior and a way of acting. Right. So your principles are...

Kirstyn DeVries (13:01.524)
Can you say a little bit more about that? Just contextualize the principles piece.

Clive (13:17.189)
My spiritual and psychological and physical health. That's my number one principle. So if I don't check that off first thing each day, I'm toast for the next principle being my family and relational health. Are they thriving? The next one down in my case is my business. know, am I being a contribution to others through compadres? Am I helping people in my environment? Am I making a difference? they feeling the impact of my presence when I'm with them?

Then I have on the bottom one, investments and, and or community as in, I, you know, debt free? Am I being investments in things that are positive and then also community. So how is what I'm doing affecting the community? However, now with my business, my business is all about affecting the community. So my principles are a bit muddled.

But there was a point where I put business in the community at number one, at the sacrifice of my health and the sacrifice of my family. well, I just have a checklist. I visualize, I'm super clear. That's why I'm able to recite. You got to be really clear on your principles. Otherwise you get swayed. You know, the wind blows of an opportunity or a shiny thing. And as entrepreneurs, we love shiny things and we love fixing problems.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:19.614)
And how has that changed?

Kirstyn DeVries (14:28.094)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (14:39.122)
Yeah. So in running compadres, can you share a typical day in your life today? If I was to look Clive at your calendar, what's on there?

Clive (14:47.108)
moment it's quite cool because I had to cancel a trip to London. So it's, it's, this is unusually a very nice period in, in, no, all my life times are pretty good, but at the moment it's a, it's an unusually chilled moment, but I'll get up and have calls with, you know, people in New York on the East coast in the morning and I'll go for a run with my dogs or take a child to school, go to the gym, have some meetings.

Kirstyn DeVries (15:08.948)
Yes.

Clive (15:16.848)
You know, obviously have lunch, then the afternoon, I'll do some more work. Then I'm on calls late in the afternoon with London until the evening. But the way I look at that is that, you know, what else am I going to do in the evening? Turn around, sit around and watch TV or YouTube. So I'd much rather be productive. So I run it, you know, like a lot of people, I run my life based on energy and joy. So, whereas when you're back in my agency running days, you know, you were

And pre-COVID, of course, you were a byproduct of your calendar, a world byproduct of our calendar, but our calendar was dictated by the workflow generated by a client or new business or internal machinations, whereas I don't have any of those.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:02.013)
Yeah, so it's much more related to running your life based on your energy and what brings you joy.

Clive (16:07.312)
Principles. Yeah. But then when I go to London or probably London most, it's crazy. One of my favourite cities in the world. I like working there. I love the people I work with in London, but it's intense. And I come back to Australia, you know, it's a slower pace here. The thing I love about Australia is it's laid back. The thing I don't like about Australia is it's laid back.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:17.352)
Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (16:34.087)
I relate to that for our listeners. did live down in Australia for two years in 2017 till 2019. And so I can relate to what Clive is saying because I've been over in the UK for six years now and I've done that back to back. So I hear you. Just moving on to the next question. Obviously, many of our listeners, Clive, are leading businesses, as I mentioned. Some are in sport and the creative industries and are trailblazing new paths in their entrepreneurial ventures. So there's a commonality in all of that, right, that we have

breakthroughs and burnout moments and then eventually bounce back from those moments, right? So I wanted to come on to a moment in your life, Clive, where you got thrown off pace, either professionally or personally. And what happened in that moment and how did you find your rhythm again?

Clive (17:22.053)
Well, feel as though I have a saying which is not mine, but I use it all the time. With the breakdowns come the breakthroughs. With the breakdowns come the breakthroughs. And, you know, I've written a talk and working on a book called The Wisdom of Our Scars. the most challenging moments in my life have always resulted in something awesome. And the more fierce the challenge, sometimes better the result. I'll give you an example. I remember one of the people in my office copied a

Kirstyn DeVries (17:29.001)
Mm.

Clive (17:51.941)
piece of IP from America and produced it for a major global brand. And then that major global brand got a cease and desist letter from the person in America. I got called into the office about to be fired by this global client. And I said, look, give me 48 hours to sort it out. If I can't sort it out, close my business down. Of course I sorted it out. And I went back and saw the, you know, the industry leader and I said,

I've got another idea for you. I know how I'm going to save you millions of dollars a year. So I pitched that idea, it come to fruition and then that client that was going to fire me ended up becoming a business that we build millions and millions of dollars to. Again, with the breakdowns come the breakthroughs, look for the opportunity, be willing and open to, you only get a challenge if you're worthy of the challenge.

Kirstyn DeVries (18:47.987)
Can I ask about the moment where you actually pushed back and asked for that 48 hours? Was there something in your entrepreneurial background, Clive, that allowed you to have that gusto to respond back with that matter and say, let me work on it and come back to you? Or was that a moment that you were sort of learning on the go?

Clive (19:08.132)
As I said earlier, I think we're all learning on the go. No, I think that's just primal spirit and a relentless unwillingness to give up. I that's the difference between I was watching an interview with Seth Rogen the other day. He said, look, I know a lot of people in Hollywood and some are brilliant and some are average. And the only difference between the people who make it is a bit of luck.

Kirstyn DeVries (19:10.387)
Mm-hmm.

Clive (19:35.0)
but persistence and not giving up. The average ones still make it. know, I'm probably, compared to some of the business leaders I work with now, like I'm in awe and privileged to work with some of the world's great entrepreneurs. And I get an insight to all aspects of their life. And I mean, as I said, I'm in awe of working with these people and their minds. And in many aspects, have so many other talents that I don't have.

But it's their talent and their perseverance and their belief in their dream. My cap says to create new futures is really what separates us all.

Kirstyn DeVries (20:13.949)
It also goes really in line with something you said in another interview that's up online, which is sort of that fear is a byproduct of inaction.

Clive (20:22.488)
Yeah. So we all suffer fear. It dates back to, you know, when we had to ward off lions and tigers or whatever it is with our clubs. And so we all suffer fear and unrealistic fear, fear, to what actually could happen in our life. We get feared about all these emotional kind of things, but fear is natural, but it's also a pathway just as imposter syndrome. If you're experiencing fear or imposter syndrome, you're on the right track. I'm not the first person to say that.

It's definitely a step in because once you kind of get in action, your fear becomes, you you're oblivious to it. Fear is ubiquitous in business. I'm doing things now that I never would have thought possible two years ago when I was riding a horse up a mountain, you know, when negotiating, you know, major, major deals in different parts of the world. Things that

Kirstyn DeVries (21:03.913)
Mm.

Clive (21:22.731)
You know, I guess I could have an element of apprehension about, but I don't because it's about human relativity, like listen to the person, what do they want? How do we create win-win scenarios here? I think there's a bravado in business that somebody has to win and somebody has to lose, but that's not great relationship or sustainability. It's about how do we all work together to help each other achieve each other's goals?

That's another antidote to fear is collaboration. Again, the more people you collaborate and you partner with, you know, there's answers to everything.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:00.966)
Yeah, because their knowledge just broadens your scope and gives you more tools in your tool belt. And I think that's incredibly important. And I mean, that's part of the reason Clive and running this podcast. I mean, I've had the opportunity and privilege to rekindle conversations with people that I haven't talked to in upwards of five years, most of them, and some that are people that I've met in the last six months, but have just brought that energy. And as you mentioned, sort of a piece of knowledge or perspective that I wouldn't have had had I not spoken with them. Right.

Clive (22:06.761)
Hmm. Yeah.

Clive (22:28.854)
Yeah, You know, you, you likewise, I speak on your behalf, but you're, similarly, you're getting an insight into great minds. you know, and, and, you know, I guess the evolution of society and of, you call it business, but also the world is just that we're only going to get that by onboarding the wisdom of others. And the more you understand that you don't know, the more you become a learner.

Kirstyn DeVries (22:51.728)
Yes.

Clive (22:59.027)
and entrepreneurs are lifelong learners and curiosity is everything. Curiosity is creativity, creativity is reinvention, reinvention is relevance.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:01.713)
Mm-hmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:09.222)
I love that. What a great quote. Clive, what's a non-negotiable system or habit in your routine that pulls you back when everything feels off course?

Clive (23:20.98)
Exercise.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:23.399)
Love that.

Clive (23:23.723)
So I'm, very ritualistic. James Mark Cromer. think it's his, his term from one of his books about Russia rush kills intimacy. Win the day. I wake up, you know, whether it's prayer, mindfulness, focus, you know, manifestation, coffee, et cetera, et cetera. But whenever I feel myself being overwhelmed or off course, I, I.

Kirstyn DeVries (23:35.656)
Hmm.

Clive (23:53.62)
rely on the blessing of deep breath, breathing and exercise. So I take time for myself to change my physical being. You know, I rinse cortisol. If I run and when I run, I run really slowly, mind you, and I know you're a massive runner. So, you know, you'd be way out front. But I do run between the eight and 12 minute mark. I feel the cortisol rinse from my system.

And as that does, feel optimism and I feel like problems are solved. But, you know, I'm battling my mind, which has, you know, decades of corruption. When I say corruption, mean, my mind has been affected by so many decisions and things that have happened. How do you come from nothing and recreate from nothing based on what's possible? Again, on my cap, creating new futures versus past thoughts and beliefs. So.

My go-to is exercise or I get in communication with someone who can solve that problem or help me solve the problem.

Kirstyn DeVries (24:57.67)
Yeah. Even better if you can do both. I love to do phone calls while I'm walking, for example, which is quite simple, but a lot of people don't, right? A of people just sit at their desk. and it really can get the ideas flowing. and, and you're right as well. Like you could leave, or at least I'll speak for myself. I could leave the house in in a bad mood and come back from a, you're right, like a zone to run that is 30 minutes long or even less and actually feel like I can tackle the problem. Yeah.

Clive (25:23.361)
Yeah, yeah. And I just, when I feel it happening or I'm getting, you know, some form of overwhelm or confused or how am I going to deal with this? know, yesterday we moved house and I had a whole bunch of other business things I had to do. Like I'll look back at it go, what the hell was I doing all of that in one day? But the piece that kind of helped me was whilst I was feeling super tired, I took my dogs for a run in the,

forest or the woods or the bushland, wherever you are. For 20 minutes, awesome, came back, had a relatively great night.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:01.128)
Great. Well, I'm so happy you're on this podcast the next day after all that. So, wow. How do you know when it's time to push harder and when it's time to pull back during these intense times?

Clive (26:05.716)
Mm. Mm.

Clive (26:15.328)
not sure this is a true quote, but I'm just going to say it because it could be the opposite. But Rupert Murdoch, who the world absolutely adores, was a bit of cynicism or sarcasm, I should say. He said, when the going's good, go hard. When the going's tough, go home. Meaning for me, that's go home and be with your family. Like sometimes, you know, let's say two days out of every

Fortnite or whatever it is, you just get to a point where everything's blocked. You just, what can I do here? I'm just like, okay, cool. And when my children were younger and I was running, you know, however many businesses, the answer for me was just when the front door opened. So, then the other thing is, it's just time, like give it 24 hours, go for a run or, you know, do some sit ups or whatever it is that floats your boat, meditate.

Kirstyn DeVries (26:50.024)
Totally.

Clive (27:14.181)
and revisit it because again, that's someone else's quote, not mine. Every problem is just waiting for the solution. Solve it.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:25.052)
Yeah, I love that though. It sounds like the threshold of your front door is a time to recharge.

Clive (27:30.611)
Yeah, all disappear and go for a run.

Kirstyn DeVries (27:34.182)
Yeah. Clive, as a connector of people, I've always found, you and you mentioned earlier, reaching back out to people that have the skills and knowledge that perhaps, you know, can better the decision-making that we're doing or whether it be someone that we know as an expert in an area that we perhaps are not. Now I can attribute some of my biggest growth moments to incredible mentors in my life. So I wanted to ask you, is there a person that has deeply impacted your journey and what have you learned from them?

that you still carry with you.

Clive (28:07.359)
There's so many. I'm lucky that I've built really strong bonds with, including the guy who wanted to fire me. I've built really strong bonds with a lot of people.

That's really difficult to answer any one person. And also the other side to it is that I also get a lot from the work I do working with people because when I'm having conversations just as you are now, there's little messages that you get sent if you listen. You're like, that solves the problem I was thinking about yesterday. So I have...

I'm fix advisors. Some of them are friends and some of them are people who are professional. Because I'm a wisdom junkie, I'm curious. I want to understand everything I can about this life. And as I do that, as I inquire about myself and try solve the problems that come up with me, you know, this quote,

Kirstyn DeVries (28:54.311)
Hmm.

Clive (29:16.71)
Again, it's not mine, but life, is said, is the only course in which the lesson comes after the exam. And once you pass that exam, the only thing to do with that knowledge is give it to someone else. So my childhood, as I said, started out rotten. I could be three things. I could be a victim, can be a survivor, or I can be a warrior. When I'm a warrior, the knowledge and the persistence

Kirstyn DeVries (29:29.317)
Yeah.

Clive (29:46.847)
To be a person who can help other people, now that doesn't make me holier than now or anything. It's just, I get to be a contribution to people now, whereas before I think I was a nuisance to myself and other people actually.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:02.821)
Wow, victim, survivor, or warrior. So of those five advisors, is there something that stands out in some of the advice you've gotten from anyone or a few of those people?

Clive (30:15.63)
that I didn't answer that question. Again, it's so hard because I've got so much, like, I think sometimes you just need to have someone, you know, saying, you know, in your corner. We're all like full of self-doubt, or not all of us, but some of us experience self-doubt. being somebody that's your champion, and, you know, some of us are blessed to have partners that do that.

you know, business advisors, coaches, mentors, friends, people you look up to. Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (30:54.151)
think that's great. What is a goal or a vision you're working toward that scares you just a little? And what does this... So I'm sure you're working on many different things at one time and of course traveling and helping tons of entrepreneurs, but is there a personal goal or vision you're working towards that scares you just a little? And what does that stretch demand of you, Clive?

Clive (31:01.914)
that again.

Clive (31:13.959)
Yeah, I think it's the vision to be able to help tens of thousands, millions of entrepreneurs. But that scares me. How am I going to do that? I've got an idea. It will need to be through technology and a lot of collaboration. And I think as the world evolves, that we will need more entrepreneurs. So that bit definitely.

Yeah, that's big.

Kirstyn DeVries (31:44.699)
Yeah, the stretch there is not only the number when you say tens of thousands or millions, but it's probably also, you know, the behind the scenes stuff that you're not saying, the stuff we can't see that is in the background that has to be in place in order for that business that you've just said of that scale to survive and build and grow, right?

Clive (32:01.436)
Yeah, but then, you know, I've been helping some companies raise money through, you know, private equity. And so I'm meeting a lot of people and I'm seeing how deals are structured, very different to when I sold my business. And that may play a role. So I think everything that I've done in the last two years that I've been doing, Compadres may add up to the pathway. You know, I'm deep on a technology learning at the moment and witnessing software being developed,

Kirstyn DeVries (32:07.579)
Mm.

Clive (32:30.601)
understanding some of the far reaches of what AI will be able to do, not check GDP or anything like that, but beyond that, what's possible. I think will be super helpful every day of school day.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:38.705)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kirstyn DeVries (32:47.301)
I love that, the constant learning. I actually felt that when I had first met you and in the friend group in Sydney was, I remember thinking, gosh, in order for him to get this far by this age, he must be really curious. I remember having a similar thought to that Clive. I'm wondering, would you label yourself as a curious person?

Clive (33:08.061)
Yeah, it's one of my two values is integrity and curiosity.

Kirstyn DeVries (33:11.131)
Mmm.

Kirstyn DeVries (33:14.791)
Awesome. And what does integrity mean to you?

Clive (33:18.375)
Find us.

Because and integrity is like a windshield, right? You always have to clean it. It's never, it's never clean. And integrity for me is kindness. So when I, when I act with integrity, which is another definition of it, which are, which comes from landmark education, integrity is being in communication. When you know the thing that you said you were going to do, you're not going to be able to do it by the time you said you're going to do it. So as soon as you know,

Kirstyn DeVries (33:26.309)
Mm-hmm.

Clive (33:49.852)
I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm in communication or integrity could be setting a boundary. Just saying, no, that's outside what I'm doing. And I'm only just getting this right. Like I'm only just working on all the time. The windshield. Remember the windshield always needs cleaning.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:05.753)
Yeah.

And I actually do think that's a rare quality. let me just... Yep, yep. I think that that's also a rare quality, because if you think about it, and I will just... I'm thinking of moments in my life where I've been almost fearful or apprehensive to say to someone,

Clive (34:16.766)
Could you say that again, Mike? Just got a call coming.

Kirstyn DeVries (34:29.562)
when the thing's not going so well or when the deadline's not going to be made, right? We come, or at least I'll say, I'll get into this fear mode of thinking, gosh, what are they gonna think of me? It's sort of this people pleasing mentality that many of us and definitely me that I struggle with. And so, you know, I love that definition of it because it's being in communication and being open when that is actually a risk.

Clive (34:51.774)
Yeah.

So that sounds like you keep it pleasing and or you want things to be right for someone. But things will be delayed maybe because somebody else hasn't done what they said they would to you, or there could be a quality issue. Right. So, you know, it's almost like a contradiction in that if you don't, if there's a delivery problem, it's a byproduct of something not going well.

Kirstyn DeVries (35:23.814)
Mm-hmm.

Clive (35:24.22)
And we're all faulty devices. live in an imperfect world. And if you're in communication, hey, things aren't going perfectly. The person on the other end, if they don't appreciate the fact that you are experiencing a perfectly human emotion or situation, who's that other person?

Kirstyn DeVries (35:42.565)
Yeah, I actually think though it takes, I will tell you, I definitely would not have been able to get to that frame of mind in my 20s or even early 30s. I think it's a learned thing. And so I really appreciate you sharing that framework. Just jumping onto the next question and, know, that many, you know, in the sport of long distance running, which you referenced me being a runner and many of the listeners know that I am a marathoner. I'm going to be training for Boston in the new year.

Clive (35:51.538)
No.

Clive (36:07.323)
Yeah, think.

Kirstyn DeVries (36:09.018)
But when we're training, right, we often train for weeks and months preparing for race day. And for athletes, we know that it's the work that often others don't see that drives our personal bests, right? All the stuff you're doing at 6 a.m. in the dark or whatever it may be. So Clive, can you share for our listeners what's something that you're doing consistently, but perhaps unseen, that drives your success?

Clive (36:22.833)
Yeah.

Clive (36:35.418)
in communication and I care.

I'm willing to learn. Yeah, in communication, I care. Obviously, I get up every day and answer emails and all that kind of stuff, but I would say that it would be those three things.

Kirstyn DeVries (36:53.348)
Mm-hmm.

Well, think about how many people are actually the exact opposite of that, where they are terrible at their communication and saying, you know, who cares what happens to those around me? mean, that is what makes leaders like you unique Clive is this care for the work that you do and the people that are in your life. I want to come on to the question that is, asked to every guest on this podcast Clive, and that is what does purpose mean to you right now?

Clive (37:25.746)
It's probably the biggest thing that I'm most drawn to because I think I always had ambition but I didn't have purpose. Well, ambition is driven by an identity and goals. Goals change and identity hopefully evolves. And so if your identity is attached to your purpose or an outcome, then it's fragile.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:34.298)
Say more about that.

Kirstyn DeVries (37:55.75)
Mm-hmm.

Clive (37:56.07)
Whereas if your purpose is, or if you're attached to your purpose, when the wind blows, you know, and cashflow goes, or something goes wrong, that unrelenting connection to purpose will hold you true. I know, you know, with Compadres, as I saw you, want to help millions of entrepreneurs. Let's just say a million.

and they could in turn change the world. Like that's bigger than me. So any doubt I have or I want to stay in bed or, you know, I really don't want to do X and Y, which definitely happens, it pulls me forward.

Kirstyn DeVries (38:38.406)
That's incredible. I know you're working on sort of adapting one of the talks that you've done, The Wisdom of Our Scars, into a book and I can imagine that there will be pieces of what you've just shared there on the purpose side that will come out in that narrative. Is there anything that you'd like to say sort of about what's been pulling together on that side?

Clive (38:49.682)
Mm. Yep.

Clive (38:55.888)
on purpose. So there's four pathways to purpose as I see it. There is this, the itch you have to scratch. So for you, I want to do a podcast. or, there's an injustice in the world is another one. that's Hugh Evans, Simon Lawson, Waiso and Nick Sheldrick. You know, they would end extreme poverty in their livestock lifetime. There's another one, which is a really good at this.

think I can do it better than other people. So I'm going to give this a go. And another one is that it could be trauma based. know, my somebody in my life was killed by a drunk driver. I want to commit my life to ending drunk driving or, you know, something happened to me as a child. I'm going to start a healing center to help other people who've gone through that. But they're the four pathways.

It depends on what stage of your life. So there's something called the second mountain. your first, but for most people, the first mountain is a career. I'm to be really successful in whatever it might be. Then something happens, know, divorce, health, questioning your purpose. Why do I not feel full? 44 or 55, I've got a house and a picket fence and dogs and children and whatever. I'm still not feeling it. So then.

What happens in your second mountain is usually it's committed to a purpose. But I've met people, more and more people that are starting it, you know, in their teens and twenties. A purpose generally is something that you develop over time, like wrinkles. yeah, you don't have to be born with it. Well, you are born with it. It's like a fingerprint. It's unique to you. I think more and more people are going to need to find their purpose.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:36.505)
What a great analogy.

Clive (40:50.031)
as the economic and employment environments change.

Kirstyn DeVries (40:55.577)
Yeah. And you're helping so many entrepreneurs find their purpose Clive. We only have a couple of minutes left, but I just wanted to summarize a few of the things that really stood out that you said earlier. One was that incubation is the formal term for collaboration. And so that just reminds us to get in rooms with people that can inspire us and really that we can bounce ideas off of. You also said that measuring your life by the number of collaborations is a great lens to look through.

Clive (41:10.437)
Yeah, maybe.

Kirstyn DeVries (41:23.013)
You spoke about the fact that with breakdowns come breakthroughs. So, hey, life's not going to be always easy as we know. And you talked about this relentless unwillingness to give up that is in your ethos. And I really hope that people take that when they walk away from today's interview. So as you continue to develop purpose over time in others lives, as you mentioned, like how we develop wrinkles.

I know that that will continue to make change in the world. So Clive, if people want to follow your journey, what you're doing at Compadres, how can they do that?

Clive (42:00.257)
We Are Compadres is a handle for Instagram. We Are Compadres.com is a website. I'm sure there'll be some other We Are Compadres bits and pieces coming to light soon.

Kirstyn DeVries (42:16.709)
Absolutely any final words for our listeners?

Clive (42:20.976)
Find your purpose that's bigger than you, that's more than cash, that you can obsess over and do it. There's nothing stopping you.

Kirstyn DeVries (42:35.289)
Nothing stopping you. Thank you so much, Clive, for coming onto the show today. I really appreciate it.

Clive (42:40.067)
Likewise, thank you so much.