Breakfast at Léa's w/ James Shephard

Join me as I sit down and yap with one of London music scenes trailblazing guitarist James Shephard. We unpack his music journey and our experience of the London music scene as a whole.

Breakfast at Léa’s” is a candid and refreshing podcast where guests from all corners of the music industry share their stories, challenges, and lessons learned. Hosted with a perfect blend of casual, playful, and professional vibes, each episode invites guests to reflect on pivotal moments in their careers, tackle anonymous listener dilemmas, and vow, “May this situation never find me!” Whether sipping tea or taking a shot of tequila, the conversations are always relatable, honest, and a little spicy—just like the industry itself



Guest starring………..James Shephard
 Host...........Léa Mondo
 Music……….. - James Shephard - Slow Bluz
 Intro/outro song.......BAL theme tune
 Camera/sound/lights.......Louis Auneau
 Assistance.......Monét Auneau
 Set design/creative direction........Léa Mondo
 Video editor........Léa Mondo

Tags: musicinterviews music musicians #breakfastatleas #musicinterview #podcast #musicindustry #musicians

Transcript

0:16

Hello, hello, hello. My name is Leia Mundo, and welcome to Breakfast at Leia. We get it here every first Sunday of the month where I have a little chin walk with my favourite musicians or the people that I do really cool shit, either online or in the scene, either on London or around the world. We basically just like chat about our journeys, our challenges, and all that jazz. If you like what you see, please do like, share, subscribe. It does wonders for the channel. It helps me keep going. My next guest is one of my good friends, the music scene of London Town. His name is James Shepherd. James has been part of the London music scene for years, working with a diverse set of artists and musicians in a wide variety of genres. Everyone from the great Sobreggae, such as Gregory Isaacs, John Holt, Max Romeo, and Mafia Griffiths to contemporary UK artists such as Deshai Magetta and Saber. James has been doing sessions in the UK and international tours, TV and radio appearances around London, house band work at jam nights and teaching. James is always busy as you can see. He released an album of instrumental music called High Functioning in 2022 and is currently touring with Acid Judge Legends Gallian. Please welcome my next guest, James Sheffield. Thank you for having me. Appreciate being here. Thank you. Thank you for coming here. How are you today? I'm good, I'm good. A little bit tired, but we all say that, don't we? Yeah, we do. What have you been up to? I've been um what have I been doing? I've just come off a tour that was fun. Uh I've got my uh regular thing I do on Wednesdays. I've been different. Oh, that's at Belowstone Nest. I don't know if anyone knows the Fantastic Drama Fair of Russell. Yes. It's his night, and we do it every Wednesday, or most Wednesdays, um, at a place called Belowstone Nest, which is in Shaftsbury Avenue in central London. And we're there between nine something and one. Yeah, I remember going to that like in 2024 or something. Oh, that's before before my time. I wasn't doing it then. Oh, was it 2025 I went to? I went there. Was I playing? Yeah, you were playing there. You invited me. Oh, okay. Your memory's so bad, James. I do a lot. You do a lot, yeah. A lot of stuff, not a lot of stuff. Yeah, you do. My memory, yeah. I do a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah, that's my memory's. Wasn't has it changed the dates? I saw when I went it was on Tuesday. The old one was on Tuesday. Oh yeah. Oh no, or they do I you know what? I don't really know. I just show up and play guitar. But they do do events on Tuesday. Oh, okay, yeah. Like he does jam nights and stuff, but the one I do is Wednesday. I'm like in the house band and it's like an open jam type. Oh yeah. It was so good. And uh Farah. Do we call him Farah? Pharaoh. Far Pharaoh. I always find it hard to say that name. Pharaoh is such a good drummer. Yeah, yeah, he's great, man. Legend. I've not played with him, but I've been meaning to play with him. We'll just keep missing each other. Like every time I'm like, oh, can we do you want to play this day? He's not available, or like, I'm not available. It's just like always missing each other. But he's so so good. One day we will. Tell me. So you've been touring? What have you been touring with? I'm touring with a legendary band. It's an honor to do it. Um, they're called Galliano, they're part of the acid jazz movement in the UK in the 90s. That's kind of what they're most known for. And yeah, they're great. Legends, it's good stuff. Legends. And they were touring with uh the brand new heavies. Um they did a UK tour. I think they're in Japan at the right at this moment. Right now. But we did the UK tour, like it was Galeano and brand new heavies. That's so sick. It was nice. Oh, so are you are you in the band now for the foreseeable? I seem to be, you know. I don't want to count much of it. Yeah, they're good guys, man. It's a nice it's a good vibe. And I like I really enjoy playing their music as well. It's kind of very funk-based. Yeah, it's very funk based. But it's got that kind of sort of spiritual jazz kind of that thing, the whole acid jazzy kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all like crate diggers back in the day. All that old um, you know, that early jazz funk type of fusion thing. Yeah. And then the hip hop poetry aspect to it. It's good stuff, man. Yeah, it is. Love Galeano. So how did you get the gig? I got the gig. Actually, you were partly responsible because I was gonna say what God. The um the legendary um UK DJ and uh label boss and general good guy Giles, Giles Peterson. I went on his show twice in quite a short amount of time. Yeah, so I did one, I did a thing there um with Summer Pearl, which was really good, and then I did it with you, which was really good. So I got to know him a little bit, and he sort of seemed to appreciate what I did. And then he recommended me for the Galliano gig. And the first thing I did with them was at Rough Trade East, they were doing a album launch, I think. See, that's the thing, I'd focus on the music, I can never remember why I'm there. Yeah, but yeah. You're like just turn out, plug and play. Thanks, guys, it's been great. But that went alright, and then I got um, yeah, they got told they were going on the road, so I did a thing and did a gig in Belgium with them, and then we did this UK tour. We've got another show tomorrow. I don't know when this is gonna air, but um This is probably gonna air sometimes in the summer. Oh, okay. Yeah, because it's almost May, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm sure we'll be out there's more stuff in the day in the diary as well. So look out for Galeano live. Yes, really sick. Do you want to hear uh fun fact about your situation of being Galeano? So I also got asked to audition for the get for your role, and uh obviously like I'm not as good as you, so I was like, I'm sorry, I can't do that. You have to pass it on to someone else. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's Giles asked me, how mad is that? And then I literally like chicken down like Giles, I I like I think you need someone who's really good with funk or things like that. Because I'm not I love funk, but um funk is not really my thing, so like it's just amazing that like it went to the right person. So I'm happy. Well I didn't know that last minute. Wow, okay. Yeah, a little story. No, no, you just stole my gig. I give it to you. No, I didn't give it to you. I just wasn't you just know when things are for you and when things are not for you, you know. And I think it's it's uh you have to in this business, you have to be wise to know what's for you and what's not for you. And I'm just glad it went to the right person. So when I was like one time looking at your stories, I think like a few weeks ago, I was like, hey, that's so cool, that's sick. I'm gonna talk to him about this on the podcast. Awesome. Oh right, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Well, big up Giles Peterson. Big up Giles Peterson, big up Galeano. If you don't know Galeano, then what are you doing? Yeah, there was like the acid jazz movement in the early 90s, yeah. And then the ones who there's there were loads of different bands and people and DJs, and it was like a whole scene. Yeah. Um, I was a bit too young to have been actually involved in it. I was a little Yeah, we were young. But uh I wasn't even born yet. There you go. But um, yeah, you have like the the everyone's heard of Jamagui, right? Yeah. They were like the probably the most commercially Yeah, uh, what do you say? The most commercial, not in a bad way, but they were like they they they were the ones that like Yeah, that's the ones people would have heard of. Yeah, yeah. But there's a there was a whole movement and Galliano were really important, so it's an honour to play with them. Would you say, because like a lot of people do say that like Acid Jazz, Jas is like Jas Peterson is like the father of Acid Jazz. Uh is that debatable? I don't know. And the thing is because I'm around those guys at the moment, I don't want to say the wrong thing. No, but my impression I don't know like much about acid jazz, so I thought that you would know. I mean, I know it from my perspective, but you know, in anything when you're around the actual real deal of it, yeah, it's like oh, but um from my understanding, there was Giles, there was a guy called Eddie Piller. Eddie Piller, okay. Uh he started the acid jazz label, but not everything acid jazz came out on the acid jazz label. I'm sure it's very complicated. Oh right. And there were different there was Talking Loud Records, I think that was Giles' one. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was all like, yeah, this London thing, and it was kids, um, I guess you'd say hip-hop generation, uh Gen X's, I guess if you're talking generations, yeah. And they were getting into not only that kind of funky jazz thing, whether it's Jimmy Smith organ music or like Herbie Hancock fusion or then they had all the early hip-hop, the nice jazzy 90s hip-hop, the tribe and Dela and all the Dilla stuff, all that in a big mix, yeah in a very London way. Yeah, I love that about our scene though, like we have literally started so many movements in London, even though like the scene maybe looked at as like small, always like the the mus the industry scene is always like everyone knows each other, but like I feel like London has such a cool collective of musicians who are experimenting with so many genres and fusions. Do you know what I mean? Like absolutely with yeah, it's so exciting. I know it's always been that way, really. And the thing is it's always kind of taking elements from other places, yeah, and then adding it into there, it's a kind of a English theme if you look at the history, uh for better or for worse. But but um, yeah, so right back to like the the guys, the boomer generation getting you know vinyls from sailors, American records, and then discovering blues and rock and roll, yeah, and that leads to your Beatles and your Rolling Stones and all that stuff. Yeah. Whether it's that, whether it's like bands like Loose Ends who were very influential to the Neo Soul movement in America. Okay, yeah. Jungle is from here, dubstep is from Dubstep is from here, Grime is from here, um, but they're all like variations on a yeah, and you've always got that American thing and that Caribbean thing and that African thing and the you know English thing, it's like all a big melting pot. True. But I want to talk about now we're on this conversation, I want to talk about like Neoso. A lot of a lot of people, even me loaded term loaded, it's it's very loaded. Can you explain why it's loaded to the public? I don't know. The thing is with music genres, like what was it? Someone smart said there's two kinds of music music you like and music you don't like. But we use genres because it helps us categorize and discuss and organise. So it's not like it's but neo soul, what does it mean? Yeah, what does it actually mean? Like, and then there's this thing, actually, as guitarists, we know there's that whole thing on Instagram for the past ten years or whatever, however long, um, of Neo Soul guitar. And it's basically people trying to play like Isaiah Sharkey, who's who's influenced by gospel American gospel guitarists, like what's his name? Spanky Alfred, is it all those um yeah, which is a long tradition, goes back to pop staples and the staples scene. But basically, Neo Soul is again, it's the early 90s period in America. You had you had the roots, you had um D'Angelo, just the name Dilla Jay Diller, well, he was coming from Hip. So Aquarians kind of, yeah, but that yes, but did they sorry, but did they start the movement though? Because like people, some people are arguing that like Shardet is also part of the movie, yeah, yeah, and that's UK and that's the 80s, but that's in the UK. Yeah, I think they're kind of like maybe they were very influential, yeah. But what can you call Neo Soul? Like, no genre has like a load of boxes you can pick and say that's the genre. Yeah, and I think I saw something with Questlov a while ago, and he was saying they didn't think they had much in common, but they kind of unified. So, like the roots and India Ayrie's a big one. D'Angelo and Um Jill Scott and Angie Stone and all these people, Maxwell, they didn't think they were remotely similar. And if you really check it, India Ari is so different to D'Angelo, so different to the Roots, etc. etc. But they kind of came together and said, well, let's just call it the media or whatever is calling this a movement, so let's just let's just stick with it. Because like so, if you break down those neo-soul artists, right? The Roots is hip-hop with a live band, essentially. Yes, like Erica and D'Angelo, okay, they were reference and Maxwell and then referencing the 60s and 70s, but doing it in a very post-hip hop way. I guess you could say it's that. Um India Iris is a lot more like a kind of folksy, almost pop, almost poppy in a good way. Yeah, it's like folk, but then it's it's like um obviously jazz infused, but then it's like RB. Yeah, she's so sick, man. But like all these, they're very disparate artists to call them all one thing, yeah. It's like acid jazz as well. Yeah, you've got Jamura guy who started out with this weird socially conscious kind of hippie funk, yeah, and then they start the then they moved on to doing these fantastic pop songs, yeah. And then you've got a group like Galeano who is kind of underground poetry and referencing old jazz records and stuff, yeah. They're very different, but I guess sometimes we need to put things in a category. True. So, what is Neosaur? I don't know. It's whatever you want it to be. Next question. Okay, I want to talk more about you, obviously. So, what is your go-to breakfast? Let's start there. Oh, it depends on what happened last night and what's happening in the day. What do you usually gravitate towards? The thing is, I should be doing a good like lifestyle podcast thing. I wake up in the morning, I run 10 miles. Like, get ready with me, get ready with James. Do a smoothie that's made of no. I normally it will be like if I'm in a hurry and I need to be somewhere, I'll have like an avocado or maybe avocado and some and some sourdough or you're so London. Yeah, in it. Hipster. You're so hipster. You're so hackney, yummy, mommy. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, so something like that. Sometimes I'll have muesli with um with uh almond milk on it. Oh wow, and then I have coffee and then I'm good. Sometimes I'll have like some fruits, bananas, and apples and all that. So depending on what side of the bed you work upon. Yeah, yeah. First. But I've just like it's funny, it was kind of a running joke on this last tour. We had the um a well-known hotel chain, medium priced hotel chain that they put us up in for most of the shows. Oh, okay. And we had the same breakfast every day. Every day. You know, you know those uh well, I don't eat the meat parts of it, but basically that. Oh you know, and the beans have been there, no thanks. I love full English, but black pudding. Um the the um yeah, the beans that have been there for a long time and they've started to go soft, and then the vegan sausages that are a bit hard, but we just because we had it every morning by the end of the tour, we were all like You're just kind of like oh yeah, it's log. But my go-to breakfast involves coffee generally, and I try and be vaguely healthy with it. Do you sometimes just go about your day with just coffee? Uh I try and not do that because then I find I've I used definitely used to do stuff like that, but I feel like the energy drops. Yes, very fake energy, it's tricky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fake energy for real. Yeah, and I never drink energy drinks or anything like that. I think that's just terrible, it's terrible. Every now and then I'll have like pop uh drinks, like you know, cook and whatnot. Like, every you gotta enjoy the moon. Yeah, but like I just I don't do it most of the times. Tell me about your background and how was your childhood growing up? Um, very boring. I was born just outside London in a place called Harlow, which is like near Stansted Airport. You were in Harlow? Yes, a proper commuter belt suburbie, and then my folks had a house just like out to the in the country a bit, and um so I guess yeah, my parents were both teachers, so yeah, very much that kind of middle class, lower middle class, I'd say it's aspirational kind of middle class thing. I didn't go to private school or anything like that. So, yeah, that's the most boring, most middle of the road way of being British that you could be. But I was always my parents aren't musical, they aren't musicians like that. Um okay, what were they teaching? Uh my dad's an English teacher. Oh, and my mum uh she became an educational psychologist, actually. She was uh a primary school teacher before that, I think. Oh wow, so parents your parents had brains. Uh brains. Not had. They're stupid now. No, but that's one thing I'm very grateful for, is because my dad's from a very like working class East London background. Um, but he got into reading at an early age. So the importance of of literacy and and reading books and just being aware of history and stuff, I'm very grateful that I had that growing up. Yeah. Because I've always been fascinated. Kind of I'm I'm quite a bit different from my dad, but that's one thing. The importance of reading and knowledge and stuff that was kind of given to me. So I'm very grateful for that. What makes what makes you say you're what makes you different from your dad, except for literature? Well, totally different generations. It's hard in this time because the way culture moves forward. Yeah. None of us are much like our parents, really, are we? Yeah, but I still find like a bit of my parents in me. Yeah, there's maybe a bit. My dad as an only child, um, is very if you let he's a root, he's a really nice guy. Like if you meet him, you'll like him, he's cool. But he talks a lot, he has opinions. He's quite right, he's quite right-wing. I really like him there because I have a lot of opinions. Yeah, he's quite right wing. Oh, oh, yeah. Which is like I know to some people probably watching this. So that's what you're referring to, he's a bit different than me. Well, it's not opinions, it's just opinions, and we're all products of our environment, you know. But he's he's not like a creative artsy person, but I think he appreciates that side of life. Like I think he did dra did some how much a drama thing in uni and stuff. He likes he so he can sort of appreciate it, but he doesn't he's never wanted to be in the trenches of creativity, but then that's my my first generation middle class privilege, isn't it? That I feel that it's open to me to be this creative person. Whereas I think the boomers, although they did have an easy way into life in some ways, in terms of like being able to afford property and just doing a normal job and you can buy a house eventually, all that stuff. Um they did graft, they did graft, they really did graft. Yeah, they did. You know, yeah. So they were more on that thing. Um so I yeah, but he's he'd he's kind of a bit bit right wing, straight ahead type of guy. Yeah, very conventional English Christian, um yeah, so yeah, I don't I don't put people in categories. Fair enough. I've found no correlation in my life. Yeah, you shouldn't really between political as they are, exactly. Political leaning, religious belief, or lack of or anything like that. I can't find a correlation. There's good and bad all over. So yeah, true. Yeah, so in terms of music, how did you get into music? Well, are they into like are they music enthusiasts at all? Uh kind of, but not really, not in the way like probably to people like us who are just obsessed with it, or speaking for myself, like music is everything to me. Yeah, of course. I have to really focus to do other things. Yeah. Um, but uh my dad liked classical music, not to like learn to play it or be really into it, but he liked it um he would have Radio 3 playing, which is like the classical station. Yeah, but they would have um well, first of all, I was always just obsessed with music, anything radio, TV, top of the pops, all that stuff. I'd be like, wow when I was little, little. But my dad um liked Radio 3 and they'd have documentaries and they had a few documentaries about blues music. Oh, yeah. And I already knew about rock and RB and all that stuff. Yeah. But when I was like maybe seven or eight, I remember someone had the yeah, different documentaries on Radio 3 about the history, it might be the history of honky tonk piano or the history of Bluebird Records in the 30s or stuff like that. But I just something about that music, it was like Yeah, it just it just got you in the field. Yeah, and I obviously I couldn't really comprehend the um the social implications of it, the historical context of what was going on. I knew it was American and old. American and old. But and then yeah, it just is like I opened a door to a journey. Yeah. And then yeah, like so, even to this day, blues, if I needed you know, because in my life I'm always learning music, playing music, teaching music. So, but if I just need like a reset, like it's normally blues I will go to go to. One of the many forms of blues that would you say blues music is what got you into guitar playing? Tell me, how did you get into guitar playing? I don't know. That's almost like without sounding pretentious. Yeah. It's like uh my mum, I've told this story a few times, but um my mum says it was like a pre school group, like you know, age three or whatever, and then there was a lady that would They did like a mother and toddler group or whatever it would have been. And a lady used to play acoustic guitar and sing hymns and nursery rhymes and whatever. Oh. And my mum says I was just mesmerized. Yeah, fascinated. Just like a nice old lady singing like singing nursery rhymes for your baby. Tinkle, twinkle, at the front, like you're yeah. I just I'd have always been drawn to guitars. I don't know. Like they they were right guitars. Yeah, they are, they are worked for me. So when did you start playing? What age? I think I just started begging my mum for a guitar, and I was walking around with a tennis racket, her old tennis racket, like pretending for ages. And then one day she got me, I think, the Argos guitar, maybe. Them ones, yeah. Nylon the starter, yeah, yeah, yeah. Small ones. Yeah, that was my first one as well. The Martins or something. It wasn't a Martin. It was in your oh, yours was Martin are like the really expensive American guitars. Is that the one I think mine was Martin's, but I don't know if it was from Argos. Where did you go up? I got Martin as your first. Funny story is like my sister actually got it for her birthday, so I stole it from her. That's how I got into guitar. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it wasn't even mine, it was she got it for her birthday, so it was a big deal, and I remember it was a Martin's. Yeah. Martin's, maybe that's a knockoff. Because Martin is a very fancy, well, like a flagship American guitar, it costs thousands. Okay, but yes, uh that's how you got into guitar. Yeah, and I was just off from there. Did you how did you train? Uh, a lot of self-taught things. Then I had some classical guitar lessons with a guy, uh Mr. McDonald. I hope you're still around, boss. Um, and then I didn't do that for long. Then I went to secondary school and there was a rock guitar teacher at the secondary school, and I did a few lessons with him as well. But it was mostly thing is you're always self-taught, really. Even if you're set attending a conservatoire, you still it's about what you make. It's about what you do in solitude. Yeah, and it's about what you if you're in a whether you're in a university or you're at a jam night or at your friend's gig or whatever it might be, or watching something, it's about what you take in. Yeah. And how you internalise it. So everyone's kind of self-taught, really, aren't they? Yeah, in a way, yeah. But that was the sum total, and I um wasn't getting on too well in school as a weird kid. I maintain how just I was quite cool. I wasn't too I was all teenage boys are struggle with social things, all teenagers probably. Yes, but um I was like I was cool with everyone in school. I was kind of cool with the popular kids, cool with the nerdy kids, cool with the sporty look, cool with the whatever. I was alright with everyone, but I just didn't I really hated school. I couldn't stand it. Why did you hate school? I don't you know I I I've thought about this a few times. I don't know. I just hate it, I just despised it. You just didn't want to be there. Yeah, it was like everything was just this nightmare of a few hours, so you could go and play guitar and and hang out. I wasn't like a total nerd. I'd I would go and hang out and do stuff. I was a nerd, but I mean I was I was a full-on nerd. I I roared solo. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Well, you're very outgoing, so you must have had this is all a bit of an act not an act, but I'm naturally I'm naturally quite introverted. Oh really? Yeah, because I do music. Oh, I can see that, I can see that. Because I do music, you know what this life is like every day. So she how you doing? Good to see you, man. Yeah, nice. Like, so I've cultivated this thing, and then you'd be on the road with lots of people, then you get to a venue and there's loads of people, and then you go to an after party, and then you're in a hotel, like, or even if it's just in town or whatever, it's just everything's jams, parties, hang, hang, hang, which I love, but I'm actually a bit I'm actually pretty awkward. Yeah, this is all a sort of a front almost. Yeah, that's what it feels like. It's your alter ego. Yeah. I feel like as an artist, you've gotta have like a persona, right? That makes that's for the stage. I suppose so, but I'm like just to keep to as a form of self-perseverance. Yeah, you're a that's how I that's how I see it. Yeah, you're a singer songwriter though, so I think it's even more important. Oh, yeah, it's even more important at the front presenting the thing. I think for us guys in the band, it's a bit less Yeah, maybe maybe it's the similar, but it's not so intense. Because you've literally you go on stage, it's like it's layer mondo. Yeah, you you've got to be that, you know. It's a lot. That's why I'm wearing a wig now, because it's like this whole new era of my music is like I I just want to like separate the stage layer and uh this layer who's still opinionated, but like a bit more down to earth, a bit more me, you know? Okay, and it makes it easier for me because then it's like once that wig and comes off, I am Luxlayer, I am back to hippie layer, down to earth layer, and I can be myself. So you okay, wigs now. Yeah, do you not see it? I haven't I'm sorry, it's I there's so much and I'm always busy. Sorry, I will get on that today. Today, it's okay. Um, but yeah, we like the locks though. That I thought that was the whole thing. Yeah, this was the whole thing. It still is the whole thing, but I'm like, you know what? Like this era is different, and um, it's good to change. Quick shout up before we get back into the episode. Do you like retrofits? Are you into gingham? Look no further because summer is officially here, and my gingham tie tops are ready to come outside. Cute, flirty, vintage inspired, and perfect for hot girl walks, festivals, dates, or just being the best dressed in the room. And while you're at it, make sure you join my newsletter for exclusive updates, behind the scene tee, music drops, and all that juicy extras. Links are below. Okay, I wanna ask you do you have a specific song or record? Yeah, any record, L P E P, whatever, that you would that that kind of like not necessarily change your life, but like a record that's just literally like your number one record. You will never nothing compares. I always struggle with these things because it's like sort of who's your favourite person? Yeah, oh yeah, it's true. It's like they all have something to offer, right? It's life is a tapestry or whatever. If you had to pick one though, what's like your favourite record ever? It's really hard. There's some things that I just think are absolutely perfect, like especially like pop music, like the most basic, like some of the early 60s stuff. Like you could even say more town stuff, even before that. Ooh, like you know, your Sherrells and your like perfect, that some things are just perfect. I could name a few tunes that mean a lot to me. Like an example, this is I'm not saying this is my favourite tune, but an example. You know why the fools fall in love by Frankie Lyman? Of course, yeah, yeah. It's just absolutely perfect, it's so good, and it's got man, it's got my man on um big sacks, raspy sack solo in the middle. So it's really pop, and then you get this RB for the time, 1950s RB, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, sax solo in the middle, and then it's back to the do what it's beautiful thing. I love how you said that. I was literally listening to that song like it two weeks ago. Yeah, and the kind of naivety of it, and yeah, yeah, yeah. He was so young, yeah. I know, and it's actually a sad story if you believe it. Very sad, like he lives a very sad life. Yeah, I know. Yeah, but uh I only read much about him through um this book by Ronnie Ronnie Specter. Oh, we mean him to get that, let me see. Oh, we've got literature. It's this one, it's not just a prop, these are actually good books. These are actually great books that I read, they're not just prop. You're like in the web screens where they'll get like a load of books or whatever. Oh, yeah, just just to be there, yeah. Yeah, um yeah, this is the one I've been meaning to read. You need to read this, yeah, yo. This book, Be My Baby. Where's the camera at? Like it's it's over there, yeah, right there. Like this woman has lived life, like, yeah. I mean, Phil Specter, incredible producer, incredible, you know, mogul, but like a crazy motherfucker. Yes, crazy motherfucker, but uh but yeah, be my baby is another example of that kind of that is what I would early 60s pop music, bro. It's just like the wall of sound, man, it's just incredible. Like the fact that he sort of like came up with that, and it's just well not sort of, he literally invented the wall of sound. Yeah, and for a while I didn't understand what it meant until when I was doing my own EP and just like because my music now is shifting towards 60s at RB and girl groups and things like that. I've so I've been so negligent of your music. It's okay, it's okay. Yeah, listen to some Leo Mondo music later. So um I've been doing obviously a lot of research on how like I can you know get the sound of the wall of sound, and it's just it's it's incredible. The the way that like he just recorded so many instruments in one room at once at the same time. Yeah, that's how you had to do it. And he'd have loads of he'd have loads of like the top guys in America, yeah. And you'd have them kind of going gong, gk, gong, gong, yeah, gong, kong, gong. Two or three drums. Yeah, and they all wanted to kill him because he'd have like these virtuoso jazz dudes going ding ding ding dong. But like he will make them work so hard, you know, to the point where like if they fucked up a beat, he he sometimes pulled a gun at them. That's how it's like. Yeah, it was a nurse. We know he was a honestly. Did he is he dead yet? He went to jail, didn't he? Yeah, I went to jail, dad in jail. Yeah, yeah. So that's unfortunate. Okay, I want to talk about by the way. This isn't like I'm not like some devotee of early 60s pop music. No. You were just asking me. That was the tip of the iceberg of stuff. No, no, no, no, no, that's okay. It's good that you mentioned that because that's like a nice segue to this book. So we love this book and we love the girl groups and we love Ronnie Spectre. Rest in peace, iconic. Yeah, you know, before, well not before, but a lot of people actually didn't know that like um people like Amy Winehouse was highly inspired by. Oh, absolutely. I mean, if you got ears and knowledge of music, you wouldn't. But the the Gen Z always don't know. No, but we're here to educate, right? Yeah, we're here to educate, so yeah. But um, yeah, Mark Ronson found the Dap Kings, that band. I don't even New York, they're somewhere in the States. And it's just the fact they played that music so authentically, and that's how he did the Back to Black album. Yeah, which is a great piece of work. Rest in peace, Amy, rest in peace, Ronnie, and live on Mark Ronson. I'll I'll work with him one day. And because the album she did before that was with um Salam Reimi. It was a bit more hip hopy and yeah, a bit more hip hopy, still jazzy, hip hopy, but with Mark, it was just like, yeah, 60s got a lot of. I think they just must have just bonded over their love of this era that we're talking about. Yeah, it's good. I want to talk about Tashai Makeda. Yay, the legend. How did you meet her? How did you work together? How did your relationship start? My good friend Tashay, she um now where did we actually meet? Uh I think it might have been at a place in Shoreditch, East London, called Troy Bar, which I'm sure you know about. Of course, yeah. Uh and um is that when I first encountered her? Yeah, she was I was in the house band there for their reggae jam open mic night, which used to be I think it still does run, I haven't done it for a while, but it's every Thursday. Oh yeah, yeah, that one. Is it still running? I I think it is. I'd have to check this. Yeah, okay. But um but uh yeah, she was became the host and like you know, we just connected over a lot of things. She was self-evidently brilliant. Um and yeah. Now it's like however many years later, loads of years later. Loads of years later. And we've worked together a lot and it's nice of you've done all her music. Uh it's not like I'm the kind of producer, I'm not the Phil Spectre. No, not the Phil Spectre, but not but like you've got to be a few years. I've contributed with different things, production diff played different instruments and stuff. Nice. Talk about different instruments. How many instruments can you play? Oh, I play one well, and then the rest of them kind of go down in usefulness. I mean I has most of us, really. Yeah, I'm a guitar player really. Um and I can play bass alright for m for certain things. I wouldn't say I'm like some super bass player that you can call for any gig. Maybe in an emergency, I'll pull it out of the bag, but um then I'm a rubbish drummer, rubbish keyboard player, rubbish singer, rubbish Yeah, it all drops off after there. But I I know music I know music, so I can sort of get it out, you know. Okay, now onto the spicy question. Tell me a time where you felt like giving up in your career. Um I I don't think I've ever had the thought of oh screw this music thing. Really? You've never I've experienced low t low times when I'd be giving up on more than music. But um in terms of I've never had a right, I'm not gonna do this, I'm gonna become an accountant, or I'm gonna just go and live in Hawaii and be a surfer or something. I've never done, I've never had that. I've I've had to do lots of day jobs and stuff over the years, definitely. Yeah. But what's what's this been like a thing where like you just feel like rah? Am I like how how can I actually make this happen? You just feel like you hit a wall. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, um necessarily want to give up, you just feel like is this it for me? Like I've had moments where you know what it is, and this is all on me. I'm certainly not blaming any of the wonderful people I've had wonderful experiences with, but sometimes it I think it's a I don't know, character fault. Maybe if I actually like someone, especially when I was younger, I would just hang out with them and do their thing if if I just like the person, which is dangerous because that's really I like most people, I think, even annoying ones. Um, but I've been in some non-productive situations, I think, and working with people that were going nowhere fast, really in retrospect. And it's just a I and it's taken me too long to go, you know what, guys, I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore. But I I've never hit the wall like people pleasing then. Are you saying like sometimes you feel like you can't please? Well, people might say I'm rude and opinionated as well. Um I mean, aren't all musicians opinionated? You have to be, don't you? Because you're being you need that discernment to bring something forth, right? Yeah. But um maybe people pleasing, yeah. Maybe it's just and I don't know if it's a bit of it would have been the fear of of like of the confrontation. No, it's not even that, you know. I think it's I would actually genuinely like people, and if we were making music together, even if the project is like deeply flawed, there's been times when I've stayed there for too long. Yeah, because you like them, yeah. And I'm not very um and I'm learning to be more business minded. I just go with vibes, and I've been very, very fortunate, and I do work really hard. I try and be the best I can. But at the same time, I haven't yeah, some people are much more organised than me. Like I've been saying I'm gonna do exactly what you're doing now. I've been I said I was gonna do a YouTube channel with a why not? Exactly. What's stopping you? Me self-belief. Well, it's not even that it's well like if you can do music for this long, then perhaps you should believe in yourself a bit more. Because when I look at you, I'm like, yeah, I can see I can see you, I see you as a confident person, but it's like full circling to what you just said, like you are quite introverted, so that means that like you do have some thoughts where it's kind of like limiting. We all get that imposter syndrome, yeah. Yes, but I would say I'm quite confident as a guitar player, you know, you know, obviously the music is big. If you're playing like flamenco or proper, proper authentic bossanova, don't call me. There's a guy for that, yeah. But like but in most guitar things, I'm pretty confident, right? I'm like, yeah, I'm the man, I've got this. Yeah, but it's just most other things in life I struggle with, you know. I think that um when you're a musician, we can't all do everything all good at once, right? It's just like you can't call Kanye West to come and do jazz. Like no, like he's a rapper and a producer, right? He's gonna do it in his own way, but like he's not necessarily gonna come and sing like Sarah Vaughn. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's it's like I'd love to hear Sarah Vaughan try and make a beat. Yeah, it's like it's like the Galliano thing. Like, I I don't play funk, right? So I I do what I do, which is soul singer, songwriter, and jazz infusion, but like you it's not it's not gonna make sense with me, but it makes sense with you because I'm not sure. It wouldn't make sense me sitting with a guitar singing some songs on that, it would not be the same. But like I'm a big believer in experts, you know. Yeah, I think like we all have like our strength, and it's very important to know what your strengths are, so that one you don't embarrass yourself, or like obviously you can always try and get better at whatever it is that you set your mind to, but like not everyone can play every genre absolutely perfect. No, absolutely no one can. How could you? You had no one's heard of all the genres, yeah, yeah. It's stuff like I mean, you've got the whole African continent is massive, massive discovering new stuff, and plus even just recorded music goes back a hundred years, and then before that you got the whole of human history. How could anyone know all this? It's it's you know, it's infinite, endless. Infinite. But in this laptop era, we have the laptop era the post-laptop epoch that we're in. Like, there's this thing of everyone producer. Yeah, everyone can do everything badly. So I can open up my laptop and I can literally just me write a song, sing it, rap it, whatever, make a beat, play all the instruments, mix it, master it, design an album cover, market it. Just me. But you know what? All of those things, in my humble opinion, are gonna be a bit substandard compared to if you, for example, got a singer to sing your chorus, or a producer to produce your music, or a drummer to play your beat, or a mastering engineer to do the mastering. I think the temptation to do everything yourself. I mean, it's a very old school um way of looking at it, but I just prefer I mean there's some great laptop music. I love all the yeah, of course. That's no shade to me. I love how my piano and I love I love grime and all this stuff where people have just used what's in front of them and made it. We all have our strength. But it I just generally I think experts are good, right? Yeah, you gotta you gotta know what like um who to hire, I think is a very big thing as well. Like whenever I'm obviously like doing a show or whatnot, and I want it to be a specific sound, a specific way, I look at a scene and be like, who who can I ask to do this? You know what I mean? Like, who can I put my faith in to deliver my vision? So it's very important to like know exactly who you're hiring and what you're hiring them for to get the result of what you want. Yes. With that, I want to ask you a spicier question. Should I ask you a question? Oh, okay. Of course. Do your thing. We're doing this in the morning. This is all you. It was late last night. I was out late. Like, are you are you kidding me? This coffee's all yours. Oh wow. Drowing it. Yes. Yeah, if you want some more. Thank you. It's perfect. Okay. Have you ever received a backhanded compliment? I'm sure I have. Tell us a story of uh if if if you want, keep it short. No names. A story of when you got a backhanded compliment. I'm struggling to remember a specific time. Um a backhanded compliment. Uh if I have, which I'm sure I have, it hasn't affected me deeply enough to remember it to commit it to memory. That's fair. Like, I I don't know. Some people are just clueless. Like, this is a blessing. This was years ago as well. This guy's probably all grown up now. But I was doing this um a session somewhere and it was a hip-hop thing, and one of these young, young rappers, he was I I was just tuning up or just warming up or whatever, and did some guitar thing. Yeah. And then this kid was like, Yeah, show me how to do that. I was like, You need to learn, you know, he just didn't understand. He didn't like should I have to do that right now? Yeah, I can't show you that because you need to learn the basics of the guitar first, and then so you get sometimes people just don't know any better. Bless him. He was a kid and this was years ago, so he's a big man now. Um But this is not a bad-handed compliment. No, it's not. I'm trying to think of a back-handed compliment is like when someone is But I just got to kind of underestimate what went into it. Oh, okay, good. You know what I mean? Show me how to do that, like it was a yo-yo or something. Oh yeah. Um but I I haven't, you know what? I just sometimes negative people, which you do come across, they I try and let them make me laugh now more than anything. I haven't really and the thing is because you're an artist singing the songs you wrote, we have different experiences. True. This is why I have this podcast so that we can all know about each other's experiences. So if someone gave me a back-handed comp, I don't know. But we don't have to answer that. Next question. I'll try, I've tried. It's okay, you tried. Um obviously, well, not obviously, but like, have you ever been led on in the in the industry? Oh yeah. Tell us the time where you'd be led on. People are full of talking. Tell us the time. Oh, it's endless, especially young, like younger times. Um I'm just I'm gonna do this for you. Well, or yeah, when people like say like you're gonna do something, they never do it, like maybe just don't. Mention it. Yeah. Maybe just don't say I'm gonna do this. There was a there was a the worst tour, but it also wasn't that bad because the people I was with were alright. And I don't even know how many names I should name. But there were some really, really great musicians that were called to go and do this work in a European country for I think it was a week or two. And we were told to pay was alright, we'd heard the lineup of who was coming. It's like this is gonna be this is gonna be lit, this is good, and then basically the whole thing was a complete disaster. From like when we got to the airport, there wasn't enough space in the in the transport vehicles to take us all to the hotel. When we got to the hotel, there wasn't enough rooms, no one was and then it just sort of went spiraled downhill from there. Anyone who was on that tour with me knows exactly what I'm talking about. If I say the phrase remove your hands, remove your hands. That is the theme of that adventure. But that was like an example of I feel like I know who was on that tour with you. You probably do, you might have heard it. It's quite legendary. Okay, amazing people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we we never got paid properly, and we all started flaking out and leaving one by one. Can we talk about the paying in the industry? Oh, yeah. Like, it's such a cautionary tale. The paying thing. Yeah, like money for this. Yeah, getting money for like pay, like for work and stuff. Like, why do we not get paid before we did the job? That's the thing. Unless you're big, you don't. Like even big, they come. In fact, record labels are notoriously bad for paying on time. Absolutely, and you have to hassle them and uh yeah, it's a shambolic. It was shambolic when it was thriving, this business in the 20th century, and now it's kind of collapsing, and it's still a shambles. Yeah, um, but like yeah, you just have to be serious about your business and know your worth. Yeah. I'm lucky, I've been doing this a while now, so I just make sure if I don't know and trust the people, then I require contracts. And then there's certain gigs I just turn down because there's even some promoters, and it's like there's got like an X or a red next to them on my phone. Oh god, yeah. Because I'm never doing a gig for that. Why is everyone so shady in this business? Like a lot of not everyone, but like a lot of people are bad business practices. It's like, I don't know, ashamed that like maybe I'm gonna like tell this to the next person, next person, like I don't know, embarrassed? I don't know, this this is it's a bit of an anomaly. I still haven't figured it out. It is an anomaly, but like people would be so embarrassed. No, so would I, but people don't act right in in the music business. And if you were if you worked in the post office or you worked in a factory or a shop or whatever, if you showed up an hour and a half late, high drunk, and then were really entitled the whole day, you wouldn't be coming back the next day. You wouldn't. But in this somehow, this It's accepted. It's just like, yeah, that's that's just and that's that's just James. Yeah, that's how you get it. And then like, and then in terms of the people, there's a lot of I think people like people I'll be real, yeah. To be real I think people are a bit jealous of us because we not literally people like us, musicians, artists, oh yeah people that can actually do the thing. Things that they love. So a lot of I think uh and we need all those other people, like even when I'm teaching students and stuff, I emphasise the guy that cleans the floor, the bar staff, the um every single person, the drivers, the runners, the stage crew, we're all equally important and we're all working towards a common goal. So don't ever think you're special like that. But um where was I going with this? That uh basically eat more coffee, brain they're a bit jealous of of what we do because we actually get to do the music, and the music is what brings people in. Do you think does it there can be oh I see what the I'm talking about non-music like tradey promoters, yeah, promoters, executives, and things like that. I think there's a little bit they almost sort of resent. Resent the fact that like we're at the forefront of the actual music. And they've probably got more money than us anyway, and they don't have to do Yeah, but that's the thing though. You're so real for saying that because I've actually have uh thought of I have had uh reflected on on that thought where it's like hmm, why do they act like that? And it's like they actually they actually must have like some resentment over like it's possible people actually at the forefront of myths. Human psychology is complicated, there's always lots of stuff going on, but I think there is an element yeah, and then and then people like the glamour and the glitz and the posing and the dressing up and the and that was always very instantal. I'm into that's very secondary. I mean, look at the state like um some people love all the kind of the stuff that comes along with it. Um I'm like just obsessed with music. I love music, I really like playing the guitar, I like how I can interact with other people and help help their vision come together or express myself, whatever it might be. Even if you put me on some wedding gig, I'm just making Mavis and George's wedding out of a bank. Yeah, it's a wonderful privilege, and I think I'm much less into art. It's such a gift, it's what we have, it's such a blessing. So I understand why they're just yeah, but this this brings me to to the point that I was thinking just just now. Um, we was literally watching the uh uh what's it called? Justin Bieber's uh never say never last night because I'm such a believer, I'm sorry, uh Bieber Chella tonight. I can't wait to watch it. Like, I've been in love with this man since I was 13, but that's besides the point. Whilst we were watching the show, and obviously throughout all of the things that's coming out about like what happened to him when he was young with all these execs and all that stuff, looking now at that that movie and seeing how like he was overworked, exploded, and everything like that, the way they were all watching him on stage just rubbed me the wrong way because it was almost as if like they was watching like a puppet. Do you know what I mean? It's really sad. At that stage, you're a product, yeah, and it's really sad. Like he was literally like 16, like looked so young. Like, imagine yourself at 16 doing 86 shows back to back, like that is crazy, and they keep saying they're like we can do it, we can do it, we can do it. It's like no, you guys just care about the money, and the way they looked on that video, it was just it just looked like he was a puppet and they were just he was a cow, they were milking, and and there was this like jealousy vibe where like as if like Scott O'Bron wishes he was the one on stage. Kind of that's how I felt. That's what I've got from that. He felt like you because I'm not the one on that stage, you're working for me. It's kind of do you know what I mean? There was that element as well. It's like it's either it's like a combination of that and in a kind of resentment, and then a kind of like not yeah, resentment, but also like uh um he's almost looked down on him. Yeah. Some kid that does singing, yeah. I'm stacking up the dog. Yeah, I'm stacking up, yeah. And it's in some way or another, they probably do wish they were the one who like received all the praises and things like that, which is like it's still for another day. Alright, next question. Actually, two more questions, and then we're gonna wrap up. Hmm. I'm a bit self-conscious because I think everyone's gonna think I love early 60s pop music. You I do love it. What's wrong with 60s? Nothing, but you asked me what was the best album ever. I didn't think it's not even get close. Oh, it's okay, it's okay. It's just it's just because you're happy. Yeah, of course I'm happy. I wanna ask you, what's the most common lie people tell in the industry? We'll pay you on Friday. Yeah. Um most common lie. Nowadays it's not such a thing, and I can easily fend it off if it does happen. But when people on Friday is so real, that is. You would you would not see that money on your on your account on Friday. Oh shit. Unless you really know that person, you know, like you really know them. But like sometimes you have like a close relationship and you know them and you know they they they do what they say. Even so, this can happen where it's someone like that who I trust 100%, but they're busy with their life. Yeah, I don't expect you know what it's like in this city, it never stops, it's always stuff. Yeah, and then they'll be like, Oh, I'm really sorry they haven't paid me yet, I'm gonna call them now. Yeah, that's uh but I think the biggest lie I think that trumps even that is this will be a great opportunity for you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, like you you like I've had all this cra I've had stuff like that. I've had them more than one, I think twice, different totally different people. Got a session at Abbey Road, and I'm and I'm thinking Abbey Road, nice. Yeah, okay, yeah, what's it saying? Oh, we've got to get there on the da-da-da at this time and we're gonna play this music and blah blah blah. Okay, what's the pace saying? It's a fantastic opportunity to record at Abbey Road. Yeah, no, no. Especially not at our level, like somebody knows. Do you know what? If you're like starting out, then it's like you know, but we got like kids to be a judgment call. We got shit to do. You have to make it like you know that I I don't feel a way to admit I've avoided mentioning names and start and corporations throughout this whole thing. But you know, like South by Southwest in America, although they are doing a UK one. I'm actually doing it with Tasha. Oh, that's it! I don't know if it's before this comes out and it's irrelevant because I can't remember the date of it. But um it's irrelevant. Yeah, but I can't plug it. Oh, okay. It's irrelevant in terms of South by Southwest London edition. When is it? Is that in May? It's this year. Okay. But it's it's early, it's not in December though, soon. No, it's quite soon. Yeah. But um, but yeah, you have to make judgment calls. And South by Southwest, I know some established people, it might be established in the UK, but if you go and play at South by Southwest, I understand a lot of the time the fee isn't great, but again, that that would be a selective exposure. Maybe you can go on Jules Holland and the fee's not great, but you're on the major um TV thing, you know. So you have to be selective with it. June 1, June 6. June 1 and June 6th. Oh, brilliant. June, okay. You might be right in time for the right in time. I'll be there Sunday. Um I mean, what is your date? We'll plug it in. I could check it. You could put the little caption there. I'll be performing with the fantastic Monday to Saturday. Monday's the first. Okay. Oh, it's gonna be this. Tasha I Makeda T S H A Y M A K E D I. With the band um at South by Southwest, who I mentioned to make a point, but it's good that I did, because then now you can all come to the gig. Yay! Alright, last question. We have a segment called May This Situation Never Find Me. So basically Where do we start? We basically try to slow down that like a situation that we've observed, not that's happened to you, but like we've observed, and try to say wish it never finds us. So, James, what situation have you observed in the music industry that you wanna like pray it never finds you? Um I think at this stage of my life and career, I think um Career. I haven't been strategic with a career, I've just got on with it and tried to get money somehow. But um but I think kind of being in a prestigious everyone thinks you're doing good, but you're doing really badly. And the music industry is littered with this kind of stuff. Like people like in massive debt, no money, perhaps they've got addiction issues, perhaps they've got mental health issues, but they've got to show up because they're this big, this big important person, whether it's a pop star, RB star rapper, whether it's a jazz musician who's highly respected, whatever it might be. I would never want to be in the um in the spotlight and then feeling like everything's falling apart. Because we all have to deal with mental health and and try and stay on the straight and narrow the the spiritual straight and narrow, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, that that and I've definitely seen it and I've read about it and heard about it and seen it first or second hand. Like um yeah, I wouldn't want to be some big prestigious everyone goes like you're you're the you're coming in and you're like fucked like people like Amy Winehouse, the way she she's that would be a the way like peop people just the way her team just let her come on like that, it's it's it's it's evil. It's evil. They don't make so dirty you're making someone money. Yeah, they don't look so dirty, yeah. Of people actually paying the ultimate price because of that. Yeah. I mean there's a very And we all just moved on. Yeah. It's so sad, and it still happens. Do you know what I mean? It machmilla. Like, this guy was not okay, bro. Like, why wasn't her team stepping in, like, and also people like the tortured artist. Yeah, people also like the archetype archetype of the tortured artist. And addicts are easy to control because your manager or your road manager can get the thing you're after and you can be kept working like that. There's I know so many things talk about really but um yeah, that's why I wouldn't want to be in a some prestigious position position when it's all behind the curtain, just the worst. I mean, I may have been on the spectrum of that a few times, but not in the obviously we're talking about some major casualties. Yeah. So yeah, I guess that would be I hope it never happens to me. Yeah, thank you for that. Well it makes sense. Yeah, it does. It really does make sense. Like that is a situation that like you never want to, you know, be subjected to in some way. So yeah, I appreciate that wisdom. Well, we have come to the end of our show. Blue bike. Thank you so much, James, for being here. Thank you for letting me talk nonsense for an hour. Nonsense! We you've shared so much wisdom, so much love, so much light, so much about yourself. I got to know you even more better. So, yeah, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Plug your music. Uh what did I need to do now to go and listen to your album? Oh, it's a gigs that I play at. I did an album a couple of years ago, which was it's just like me having worked with so many singers and artists and producers over the years, I just sort of got it out of my system. And it's a bit weird, and it's maybe it's it's fucking good. Yeah, that's still on all the platforms. Um buy it on band camp. Band camp. Yeah, send me loads of money on band. Plug it on band camp. Yeah, go on band camp, pledge loads of money to me. And um as one album of weird instrumental music where the average length of the songs is like seven minutes or something. It's great. You might like music lovers, so and then also you can hear me with a load of um people I do who am I working with this year so far. I'll be working with with Tasho Makeda. I'll be working with definitely Galeano, got a gig tomorrow. Uh definitely hopefully Yellow Man, uh dance or legend, got some dates in Europe. Uh what else is going on? Loads of stuff coming gigs. Check me out. Check me out on Instagram where I fail to post any of the gigs I'm doing. Basically, if you're a social media manager, then reach out and fix my shit because I I'm very bad at audit. But it's always playing all the time everywhere. Oh, yeah, and below Stone List on Wednesdays. Yes, below stone list. Bring an instrument, come and play it if that's what you do. If not, just come. Alright, thank you so much. Please like, share, subscribe, it does wonders so that I can keep you know putting out these videos for the 20 people who keep watching it. Um hopefully by the time we put this one out, there will be twenty-six twenty-six or twenty-five for people. So um, if you want to be the twenty twenty-fifth person, please, that would be the helpers. So thank you and see you soon.