State Parks Review Ep. 5 ND/MN

This week we have two fresh state park reviews as part of our ongoing series for highlighting and ranking Min-da-win-ia state parks and their campgrounds!  
The parks we are discussing today are Blue Mounds State Park in Luverne, MN and Itasca State Park in Park Rapids, MN. 

Turtle River State Park:
https://www.parkrec.nd.gov/turtle-river-state-park

Reservations: 

https://reservendparks.com/Web/

Camden State Park:
https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/park.html?id=spk00127#homepage

Reservations:
https://reservemn.usedirect.com/MinnesotaWeb/

We'd love to have you join us in our Facebook group or follow us on Instagram and if you tag us on your camping related posts, we may be able to feature you on our page!

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1271381924618449/

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/campmindawinia/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Camp Mindowinia, where we're reviving the vintage camping vibe in the Midwest. There is so much to see and do in the Midwest, and we want to share it with everyone. So on this show, we'll be talking about all things camping as we explore the states of our name. Glad to have you back at camp, everyone. I'm Liv and I'm here today with my longtime camping buddy and sister Ab. Hi everybody! And today we are bringing you yet another State Parks review episode. If you've been following the show for any amount of time, you've probably caught one of our state parks review episodes. On these episodes, we cover two different state parks in Windowinia states. They might be in the same state or two different states. It's going to be a variety, each episode. And Ab usually takes one and I take the other, and we just dive into all the details about the parks, the fees, of course, site information, you know, whether they're shaded, how what the layout is like, just so you can kind of get a more clear picture of the park than you would just find like on the website, for example. Yes. So those pictures are just not very descriptive. Sometimes, you know, the pictures are like they have one picture for all the sites. And so that is that it's really not helpful. And you know, the information that you find online is very two-dimensional. And so we're hoping to bring an added dimension to those parks, as well as sharing our experiences there, because these are all parks that we have actually stayed at, and we have experience with exploring a little bit or a lot. And so we're we're kind of making them um more real before you go, and hopefully they'll encourage people to get out and enjoy the state parks in our Mindwinia states. Yeah. On today's episode, we will be doing one North Dakota park and one Minnesota Park. I will be covering Camden State Park in Lind, Minnesota, and I will be covering Turtle River State Park, which is in our villa, North Dakota. So I'm gonna start with that one. So details on where it's located. It's about 30 minutes straight west of Grand Forks. And Grand Forks, if you're not super familiar with North Dakota, is like, I don't know, actually, I'm not completely sure. It's like an hour or an hour and a half north of Fargo. Oh, okay. I wasn't driving. And if I'm not driving, I'm not as aware of timing, you know? So it's north of there. So you get more up into like a mix of wooded and prairie land, which is really pretty. When we drove in, there was just like these gentle rolling hills, and some of them were like very prairie-esque with tall grasses. And then the further into the park we got, which would be closer to the Turtle River, because it runs right through the middle of the park. As soon as we got further in, then you got like lush trees and nice like undergrowth below them for things like their walking paths. And oh my gosh, I was like, I had no clue North Dakota looked like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Because I've been to like Theater Roosevelt National Park and over on that side of North Dakota more. And it's so much more like deserty, you know, it reminds you of like the Badlands in South Dakota, you know? So totally different look. So yeah, so how close is this like to Canada? Um, it's on the closer side. So they did have signs for like, you know, Canadian border so many miles that way, but it was like still another hour or so, I think. Okay. I'm not completely sure. So I had read one time when I was looking at North Dakota Parks that northern North Dakota in some places looks more like Canada.

unknown 4:01

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Would you say that this was kind of that, or maybe the fringe of that or something? I would say, yeah, it seems like the fringe of that. Because it was very like old wood trees. Okay and just so pretty. I was blown away. I was really pleasantly surprised. Because I've never gone further than like Fargo and then straight west, you know. Right. Never been to the northern part of the side of the state. Yeah. And I'm sorry, how much further north did you say? It's somewhere between an hour and an hour and a half. Okay. Further north. Of course, that's Fargo. Midwestern travel. Who knows how many miles it is? Anyway, so the park was initially built in the 1930s by the CCC, of course. Okay. Like many of the parks in the Mindwinia. So they have some really cool old CCC items. Like, you know, they have a picnic shelter you can rent for the day. And if it's not reserved, obviously you can just use it. But it's that cool old CCC look with the big river rocks and large timber pieces and oh, just so pretty. Parkitecture, right? I think so, yeah. I think that whole CCC use the local materials, make it blend in with the park. Yeah. It doesn't have to be just national parks, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know. Not sure so. Because I mean the CCC was working in the state parks too. Yeah. Yeah. So you'd think it would be both. So of course, as you enter the park, there is a visitor center. And since it's Turtle River, they have all sorts of fun turtle-themed items, like Oh, that's cute. Yeah, like little kids' turtle squishy toys. And then they even have some like locally made or at least handmade items too that are around their turtle theme, which was really kind of fun. Yeah. And they also have bathrooms in there, of course, and everything else you'd normally have. But they also have one of the drop boxes for like overnight fee payments because the office is only open till five. Oh. So for us, you know, driving up after work, I was like, eh, we're not gonna get up there anywhere near five. But they have the drop box. And the annual permit price is $35. And of course, if you're doing that drop box, you do need to make sure you have cash with you because they don't have like a credit card form fill out spot on it. Okay. Yeah, I know some places do, but they don't. So for that, you would need the $35 in cash, or you can order it online ahead of time. We just didn't think about that. However, if you just are staying for like one night, you can do um a $7 per day permit. So then it would just be $14 for the two days. But we were staying for the weekend, and I'm like, it's almost the same price to stay for four days as paying for a year. Now, when you are just staying, like, do you just do you have to pay seven dollars a day? Yeah, I think so. Or just by the annual pass. Okay. Which is worth it. And how much was it per day? Seven dollars per day. Yeah. So as soon as you're staying there for any number of nights, you're getting really close to that annual price. Right. So that's what we kind of thought. Yes. So we just bought it, and when you fill that out, they'll just send it to you then in the mail. Okay. So moving on to the campground, they have several different options. So they have their regular campsites, which would be for like your RV, and there are 69 of those. They are $25 a night and have electric and water. And they appeared to all have electric and water based on in-person and their website. Obviously, I was there over the weekend, so it was really busy, and I didn't want to be like, you know, looking too closely into people's sites. Of course. But they all appeared to have electric and water based on online and in person. And then they have it divvied up into two different loops. I'm guessing because one was added, you know, later on. And then in a different area of the park, they have a bunch of different tending spots. So they have four that are by the river that you have to like cart into. And then they have 22 other ones that are also like a pack-in, pack out, but not like a great distance. It's not like you have to be a backpacker to get there. Yeah. More like, you know, you just have to park and then walk down the little trail, and there's your spot, you know, really close, like all within a half mile of the parking, you know, so nothing crazy. And those ones are $15 a night. Okay. In addition to that, though, they have these really cool camping cabins that they just updated. So they're really excited and proud about that around the park because it's a big, huge upgrade they did. And the cool thing with those are some of them are available for rent in the winter. So if you're getting the camping bug in the dead of winter and you're around the Grand Forks area, you could definitely head out there and stay at one. And they have like a kitchen and a bathroom with running water and bedrooms. Yes. And will the running water be on in the wintertime or do they become primitive over the winter? No, they have the running water and everything. They don't winterize. I think it's maybe half of them. So it's like four of the eight. Okay. And those ones are $80 a night. So when still very affordable. I know, right? Especially compared to like a hotel. Oh, yeah. And then they have like cross-country skiing in the winter as well as snowshoeing on some of the trails. Okay. So it's like a reduced amount. Obviously, I haven't been there in the winter, but they were telling me about it, and I'm like, oh, that's really nice. Those are some good details to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

And then we even met a gal there and her daughter, and they were both so sweet. And they said they've stayed there in the winter, and it's just gorgeous. Like it's all plowed out for you. That is nice. See, I wonder about like how well maintained they are in the winter sometimes. Yeah. Like, you know, you can get in where you can get in. Yes. And this, they said the whole area of the park from like the entrance into the cabins is plowed out. And then the walkway to your cabin is all shoveled. Oh nice. But then the trails, of course, are snowy so that you can do winter activities on them. That's great. So back to the camper sites, they are very nicely shaded. I have to say, like gorgeously shaded. Like they had some dappling of sun for part of the sites for each one, but for the most part, they're pretty shaded. There's nice tall tree cover. The breeze was able to just like drift through the area beautifully. It was wonderful. But the downside is they're kind of small. So the way they have the site set up is as you're driving along, they have these little loops that'll go off that you pull in for a lot of them that are like right off of the road. So like you're, you know, two feet from the road pulled into your little spot loop thing. And then your site is next to that going into the woods. Oh, okay. But some of them were just tiny. Like half of them, I would say, were, you know, couldn't accommodate more than maybe like four or five people comfortably in campchairs. Oh, wow. Okay. So not big. However, they did have probably 25% of them were large enough and very lovely and would have been fantastic. You know, let's say if you have like seven people all hanging out together, they'd be fine and you still have room. So when you are booking, just kind of like, you know, look at where they are when you look at the map, and you can kind of tell which ones have a little more space, you know? Yeah. So then in the campground, they have one very decently large bathhouse. And oh my gosh, beautifully redone. It has two family baths that have like roll-in showers, so it's very accessible. And then in the women's and men's bathroom, they each had two or three showers and then three toilet stalls. Okay. I'm not entirely sure because I didn't obviously go in the men's room. So and are they like the showers are in with the bathrooms? Yep, it's all just one big room, but you know, they all have doors and are separate or whatever in one big room. Yeah. I know there's been kind of a move to the the bathhouses where the showers have an entrance to the outside. Yes. And uh their own deadbolts and stuff. And I really like that because I like the privacy of that shower. But you know, it's kind of nice to the bathrooms right there. And then you don't have a sink and a mirror. Yes. And I mean, you don't really need the mirror when you're camping, but at the same time, you do, to an extent, still want it. You know, of course. Then moving outside of the bathroom, they do not have a dishwashing station, which I don't know why most state parks don't have those. I don't either. Because they are so wonderful and so convenient, but they don't have one. And I feel like if they don't offer a dishwashing station, people find weird ways to wash dishes. Right. Like in the sink. In the sink in the bathroom. And how many times have you seen people washing pots or pans in the bathroom? I know. Because there isn't a dishwashing station. I know, and if you don't have full hookup, it can be hard to keep up with washing dishes. Yes. So that can be a little difficult. I do have to say these bathrooms, even though they were brand new and gorgeous, they were not the cleanest state park bathrooms I have been in. Oh. But granted, it was the weekend and it was busy, but still, they were not like the most clean things.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Um, I do have to say though the drop toilets were pretty clean, you know, for drop toilets. That was good. And they also had another set of flush toilets down by their CCC rentable pavilion, you know. Okay. So by there there was nice, you know, meant to be a little bit more. Like a separate, like a building, or is it yep, a separate building from the CCC one? Clearly, it was added more recently than you know the 1930s. Right. Right. So it was nice. But then also by that area, there's a nice little unofficial swimming area. Like, you know, there were tons of people swimming in the river there because it was slower. But then, you know, it wasn't like a designated swimming area, but there wasn't any signage saying you couldn't swim. Okay. So that was nice, and they had picnic tables and stuff on like a grassy green leading to that area. So if you want to do water sports, it's kind of located there. And some people were kind of riding their tube down a little bit and then pulling it back up. So it looked like you could have a lot of fun. Okay. We also did try some fishing. So they have so many pretty trails that go along the river. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And there's little areas that people have kind of, you know, made going down to the river, which clearly have been trodden on a lot and don't have signage saying you can't go down. So I'm guessing it's just an access point for fishing.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

But we didn't catch anything. Oh. They stock the river with rainbow trout, but it can be so hard to find them sometimes in rivers. So maybe if you had more time, or it was 94 degrees when we went too, so we weren't like super actively fishing. Right. We were like, we'll passively stand here and cast for a while because it's too warm to, you know, move at a fast pace. Yes. The nice part about the trails here is that they are decently well marked, and they have so many that are nice shorter stints because that is nice. When it's 94 degrees, I'm not going on a five-mile walk. I'm sorry. It's just not happening. Yeah. I am not designed for that heat. I'm like, yeah, if it was in the 70s, yeah, I could go eight miles, but you know, or even if you're there in the wintertime and it's really cold, you're like, I'm not gonna make it be in the the elements that long. Yes. And then they have so many cool little bridges that go over the river. Okay. So that was really fun. And their trails are all very well shaded. Okay. But because it's a river, it wasn't super bad with mosquitoes. I mean, there definitely were mosquitoes. Yeah. But I came away from a whole weekend of spending, you know, six to eight hours outside a day with like maybe four mosquito bites.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Which is unheard of in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Like, let me just say the moving water of the water. Even Iowa. We were in Iowa a few weeks back, and I got so many mosquito bites there. Yeah, I was being eaten alive. So the moving water of the river really helps with that. Yeah. Well, with that, I think I am ready to give my review. Okay. And my ratings. So all right. Do you want to go over our proprietary rating system again? Yes. So the first thing is the scenic quality and activities at a park. The second thing is like the sites and the area around the campgrounds, like how they're set up, the amenities for the sites. Okay. And then the third is the facilities. So that would be like your bathrooms, boat launches, boat launches, dump station. Yes. All those things. Oh, I forgot to mention it does have a dump station. Okay. But it was just a very basic, you know, drive-in, drive out, not the advancy one. And then give the rating numbers. Yes. How are we going to do it this week? We're going to do one to five stars. And you can do halves and quarters if you want. Halves and quarters. Okay. Well, sometimes you do quarters and I don't, and then I'm like, oh crap. Yes. And then we're going to do total ratings for the park. Yes. And our total ratings are not arrived at mathematically. No, it's not averaging. Where it's just your decision.

unknown 17:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

So let's have it. The scenic quality and activities, I would give a four. It was very pretty. Just the big old trees and the river just winding through. It was I am so curious about northern North Dakota now. I know. Now you have to go because I've gone and I've like told you how good it is. I know. Yeah. So that definitely gets a four. It's a four. Okay. The sites, I would say three and a half, just because, like I said, half of them were small. You know, and that can be difficult to deal with if you've got your dog with or, you know, a bunch of kids and they need space to play. Like, you know, taking into account those things, I'm like, uh, they weren't necessarily a deal. Then for the facilities, I would say 3.75. Okay. Because like I said, they were all new and beautiful, but just not very clean. However, I know how it is at campgrounds on the weekend. Yes. They could just be way too overused, right? You know? Yeah. Yep. Like you arrive on Thursday or Friday and everything is pristine. And by Sunday, not the not the case. Exactly. And we got there late Friday night. So by Saturday, I'm like, there's already been a whole day of people here. Yeah. You know, so I'm not sure if you're not sure that, but you know, it's hard to keep up with. And then overall, I would give it four stars because it's just a lovely park. And then we had problems. Then we talked to the ranger and we talked to park staff, and they were all so nice and so helpful and so lovely to work with. So I'm like, I just I love the park in general. There's just a couple of things that could use a little teeny bit of tweaking. All right. Well, that sounds great. Enough to pique my interest for sure. Yeah. Our next park is Camden State Park, as mentioned, in Lind, Minnesota. So this is in southwestern Minnesota, which is very flat prairie land. So you're just driving along prairie, prairie, prairie, prairie, and then you get to the it's the Redwood River. And so the Redwood River Valley is where the park is located. And because it's a river, of course, it kind of goes down into some bluffs, not bluffs, but hills, I guess. Rolling hills. Yeah. Well, it's sort of a tiny bit steepish, maybe. Anyway, and there are definitely trees growing down here, and it has a very river atmosphere. In fact, on the state parks website, it describes it as a cool forested valley along the Redwood River. So do with that as you will. I have not been there in the summertime, so I don't know if it is all that cool, but it has shade. And the prairie there is just beating sun sometimes. Yes. So those trees do make a difference. And in fact, in another part on the website, it says the sun-drenched prairie. And I'm like, that is a nice way of putting it. Yeah. I would call it sun-baked. Yeah. Sun-baked. It's like a thousand degrees and there's no shade at all unless you're an ant. So this I by comparison, I would imagine is cool and forested. So it's very similar to Turtle River. Yeah. So these are kind of almost like sister parks in two different states separated by many hours drive. So whatever you're closer to, you can possibly get a similar experience. Yes. This is in a very rural setting, so there isn't a ton to do around the park itself. However, there is plenty to occupy at least a weekend in the park. And some of the things they have are um fishing. So the Redwood River is a trout, a designated trout fishing area. So it is stocked with brown trout as opposed to the rainbow trout of Turtle River. And I think brown trout are my favorite trout variety. Really? Yeah. Possibly tied with brook trout, but they are stocking the river. So you know, presumably at the right time of year, you would be able to catch those in the river. They also have a really cool swimming pond. They called it a swimming pond on one page and a swimming pool on another page. When I was there last October, it was freezing cold. So we were not even thinking about swimming. Yeah, it was like windy, blustery, you know, Maybe you can sit out at the campfire while the sun is up, but then it was too cold. So we were inside the whole evening kind of a deal. So we did not check out the swimming pond, but it is spring fed. Uh-huh. And it was built by the Veterans Conservation Corps, which was, I guess, another, I don't really know much about them, but they were like the CCC. And um, this was built in the 1930s.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

So they um like it has a sandy beach, which I believe they maybe put in.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

And um, yeah, it's it sounds like a a nice place. It looks pretty, you know, it looks like a pretty little pond. And I just love the spring-fed idea. Obviously, not a hot spring, so it's not like it's warm. Unfortunately. Yeah. I do wish we had more of those in the Mindowinia. Yes. Lucky South Dakota. Uh-huh. There is um ample opportunity for cycling. There are 15 miles of single-track mountain biking trails. Wow. Yeah. So that's seems like a good good amount. I'm not sure. I haven't done much of that. And then they also have um uh they're they're they have access to the paved Camden Regional Trail. And I think only like maybe a couple miles of it is around the park, possibly. But then, but you have access from the park to that trail, which then you know you can take for many miles outside of the park as well. Yeah. Within the park, there is a lake. It's a small lake, and you to get to it, you either have to go back out of the park onto the road, drive down the road, and then you can get into where the lake is, or you can hike to it through the woods. Um, it's called Bronner Lake, and they have um personal watercraft rental there at the lake. This did end in um like late September, I believe. Okay. So it was done by the time you were there? Yep, it was not open. For rent, they have canoes, kayaks, paddle boats, stand-up paddle boards. So basically all of your typical things that you would be able to rent at most state parks, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

And um, the lake was pretty. It was small, just a little leisure lake. Cute, leisure lake. Cool. There is a scenic overlook. The views here of the river are really beautiful. These are the part that make the park worth seeing, especially in the fall. Yeah. When we were there, there was just gorgeous fall color, which was a little surprising. But I think it was because I can't remember the fall color combinations, how you get the optimum fall color. But I think it's like if you have a wet summer and a dry fall or something like that, dry, cool fall. Uh-huh. And that was pretty much what we had. So the color was just really beautiful last October. And we're not we don't have a wet summer going, but maybe things are can turn around for this fall. Yeah. But pictures I've seen online of the river valley in the summertime looks beautiful too. Very lush and green. Just gives you that good midwestern green summer aesthetic. Oh, yeah. That's what I love about staying at state parks on rivers. They just are so much more lush and just beautiful. I love it. I know, especially when you think like so much of the country, like especially the further west you go, has such a like tan color. Yes. And so then, like, you know, I'm always impressed, like, especially as I go over the Minnesota River or over the Mississippi or whatever on my way to work. I and I just see that beautiful kind of rolling greenness. I am impressed every single day by the beauty of greenery in nature. Yeah. For being a little bit of a smaller state park, I was impressed to see that they have an action track chair available for reservation. This is like um, you know, an accessible chair so that you that you can take on the trails.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And it's free. You just have to reserve it. You can reserve it online, or you can reserve it if it's available when you are in person. That is so awesome. I love that so many parks are doing that nowadays. I know, I do too. And I feel like some of them, like I know on the North Shore in Minnesota, there are like three parks share like one. Oh. So for this park to have their own, I think is that's great. Yeah. I just really love how the state parks, especially in the Midwest, have been working to have accessibility for everyone. Yes. It's so great. I know. It I, you know, it it's sad to think that anybody could be locked out of enjoying nature and the state parks, especially just by a lack of accessibility. So I think these are some great new new updates. Yes. Now for the camping details. Yes. So you do have to have a vehicle pass for the park, and then it's $7 a day, $35 for a year. And I assume you probably have to pay that $7 a day every day you're camping there. So then, you know, determine what is the the best option for you. Um, there are two campgrounds in the park. There's an upper and lower. Of course, the upper is south of the lower. Right. You never know how that works. Uh there are 80 drive-in campsites between the two. And of those, 47 have electric hookups. There is no water or sewer in the park. Okay. I mean, there is there is drinking water where you can fill up your fresh tank, and there's a dump station, but not in the state. Not in the sites. Yeah. Yeah. And then every site does have 20, 30, and 50 amp at the post. So pretty much any rig. And then the spots, they are, they're not what I would call big, but they're open. So you could get larger rigs in there. I have to say, when I was like just driving around the other loops in the camp. Well, there's only like a few loops. It's it's not huge, but it does have 80 sights. But as I was driving around the park, I was like, a lot of these spots look well, especially in the upper. No, I'm sorry, the lower, whichever one is the more n northerly.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Um, those ones look more like a private campground to me. Oh. They're like, they're very open. So you know, they're not, it's not parking lot. Not like that, definitely. There are trees and they do back up to the river. Uh-huh. And the trees are tall. They definitely provided shade, but not like privacy. Oh, yeah. So I honestly think it's a really good campground for staying with other people. Yeah. Because your sites are like fairly open to each other. Yes. It's like easy to, you know, move from camper to camper is, you know, if you're camping with a group. Yes. Um, however, if you're not with a group and they are around you, then they might be passing close to through your site. Yes. Kind of a deal. Um, there are seven pull-through sites, so that is nice. And they um all have electricity. And then there are two accessible sites with um pads underneath the, you know, that you would pull onto. And then that is about it for how many sites they have. The cost is $24 a night for non-electric and $34 a night for electric. Okay. There are two shower buildings, one in each campground. Oh, that's nice. Yes. And the shower buildings were they were okay. They were, well, they weren't bad. They were definitely older, like probably 1980s. I'd guess, 70s, 80s, somewhere in there. But they were very clean.

unknown 30:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I was really impressed by how clean they were. And like not a lot of bugs. Yes. That's always a plus. Yes. I know at Lake Shaitek State Park, they spray the buildings. They don't spray anything in the woods or anything like that, but they do spray the buildings for bugs. And so the there's not a lot of, you know, spiders. We'll we'll be honest here. Not a lot of spiders at Lake Shaitek buildings, which is really nice. So, and they might do something similar at Camden. I'm not completely sure, but I was really impressed at how how not buggy they were. Nice. So, with that, I think it's time to come to the ratings. Nice. Okay. So the first category being scenic quality and or activities. Uh-huh. And remember, scenic quality, we've got the beautiful river, tall trees, um, beautiful fall color, yeah. Mist on the water in the in the mornings, activities being fishing, hiking, biking, swimming in the little spring-fed pond, paddling, uh-huh. You know, just kind of typical campground, state park activities. Yeah. So for my rating, I am somewhat undecided. I'm going somewhere between a 3.5 to a four. And I would say 3.5 because they really are pretty basic activities.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

But f four because in the fall with the fall color, it was very scenic and beautiful. So that kind of bumps that up a little bit. And I do feel like in the summertime, you know, this is going to be nicer than a park that's not like on any water. You do have the option for paddling. You do have the swimming pond. So those things kind of bump it up as well. So I think I'm just going to have to give it a four. I'm going to give the, well, you know what? Let's go halfway. 3.75. Yes. For sites, this is kind of taking into account whether they're shaded, what hookups are available, and privacy. They were definitely shaded. They were definitely scenic because they were on the river. Well, some of them were. And um they were okay on hookups having electric in a lot of the sites. Um, however, the privacy was just really not there at all. And then they weren't very large sites. So it's not like you have a ton of space to set up, you know, a screen tent or things that you might want to in your yard. Uh-huh. So I'm actually going to give those only a three, despite the fact that they were nicely situated in the park. Yes, I get that. Yeah. The dump station was very basic. The bathrooms were they had their pros and cons. Old but clean. Old but clean, yeah. And of course, if the staff changes, you never know. Right. We're gonna believe that they're still gonna be clean and nice in there. Yes. So for facilities, I'm going to give that a four. So we have 3.753 and 4. And I'm going to give it a total rating of four. Nice. I would definitely go again under the right circumstances. If I was in the area, if something was happening around there that I wanted to go to, this would be a nice place to stay. And it definitely had stuff to offer. And I really do think I should check this out in the summertime, even if I was just doing like a day trip to it. Yeah. Um, to experience that um, what do you call it? That spring-fed pond. That sounds really cool. And, you know, maybe being able to make better use of the river and the lake when it was warmer. Yeah, for sure. That's all we have on these two state parks for today, guys. But we will make sure that we link the state park websites and the reservation spots and put those in the show notes for you. And that is our show for this week. Thanks for listening to the Camp Mindowinia Podcast. If you want to connect with us, head over to our Facebook group, Camp Mindowinia, or follow us on Instagram at Camp Mindowinia. Take us on Instagram in your camping posts for the chance to be featured on our page. And if you're enjoying the show, please follow us on your favorite podcasting platform, and we'd love it if you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify. Join us next Monday for another episode. Bye, guys!