Beyond the Operating Room: Dr. Brian Hoeflinger on Loss, Love & Inspiration

This week, My conversation with Dr. Brian F. Hoeflinger, MD, a Board-Certified Neurosurgeon who has served the Toledo community for over 25 years. Known for his deep compassion and dedication to educating his patients, Dr. Hoeflinger believes that true healing begins with understanding and with being fully involved in one’s own care.

But beyond the operating room lies a story of profound love, loss, and purpose.
In 2013, Dr. Hoeflinger’s oldest son, Brian, tragically died in an alcohol-related car accident at just 18 years old. That day changed everything. A part of him was lost forever yet something new was born too.

Driven by a promise to honour his son’s life, Dr. Hoeflinger has committed himself to creating positive change, especially around teens, alcohol, and safety. He has turned unimaginable pain into a mission that saves lives, empowers families, and inspires hope.

In this powerful episode, we explore his journey of grief, resilience, fatherhood, medicine, and how he continues to achieve the great things his son no longer has the chance to do.

🎧 A heartfelt conversation you won’t forget.

📘 Book: The Night He Died
📱 TikTok: @doctorhoeflinger
📸 Instagram: @doctorhoeflinger
▶️ YouTube: Doctor Hoeflinger

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

My guest today is a father, neurosurgeon, and an advocate. Dr. Brian Hufflinger shares his journey through loss, healing, and purpose. Before we go any further, I would just like to say to my audience to be ready to be inspired. And I'm just going to get you, Dr. Brian, to introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Sure. Well, my name is Brian Heflinger. And so as Faith said, that I'm a neurosurgeon, which is a surgeon that operates on the brain and spine. And I've been a surgeon now for uh 26 years out of residency. And I'm married to Cindy, who's my wife, and um we have four children. Our oldest son died, as you you will find out. Um, but my wife's a retired forensic pathologist, and we live in Ohio in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Thank you. So we're going to start with the questions now. And um, the first question is can you take us back to the moment you decided to turn such a painful personal loss into a mission for change?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, so referring to my son Brian that died. Yes, yes. So my 18-year-old son Brian, he's my oldest. We have two boys and two girls, and um, he died in a drunk driving accident 13 years ago. He was at a party with friends drinking and left the party intoxicated, got in his car, and he hit a tree a mile from our house and died. And part part of me as a dad, I mean, anybody out there who's a parent, I mean, it's hard to let your child die for nothing. And it seemed like to me that there was more to this than just letting my son die and burying him and forgetting about it. And so it just instilled a purpose in me, you know. I mean, I wasn't gonna let my son die for nothing and have his death mean nothing. And um, there was a lot of, since my wife and I are both physicians, the media really jumped on it right away here in our our area and started talking about how we were bad parents and my son was a drunk. And, you know, I mean, he went out and drank with his friends like all the kids do, you know, it was nothing different. But I just I thought there was something positive that we could do with this. So we we decided to take the tragedy of our son and do something positive instead of being negative and and complaining about it. Um, we thought we would do something positive with it. And, you know, so many people drink, uh obviously in the whole world, and so many people hop in their cars and drive. So we've been very much advocates for, you know, um, not if you're gonna drink, don't get in a car, take an Uber, take a lift, whatever you have, call a friend. But we've been advocates of that, but also more so, even just my son, you know, I mean, Brian has no chance to ever do anything again in his life because he's dead. And I just like to remind people of that because, you know, everybody thinks tomorrow's gonna happen. And so my son, I don't think my son woke up that Friday morning ever thinking that he would die that night, never wake up Saturday morning, but he didn't. But we always think tomorrow's gonna be there, but you know, it may not be. So I think it's a good reminder in life to kind of be happy with what you have and you know, try to make the most of each day. You don't have to do something spectacular every day, but you never know when your last day is gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yes, that's absolutely correct. And after that um loss, how did the whole family take it with I mean the rest of your children?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, it I mean, it's it's it's like we're on a tip a different timeline, right? So like we had that life with Brian, and that life is over, and now we're in this new life that nobody really wanted or once. And um, it's changed all of us, you know. I mean, it was super hard on our kids and um on all different levels. Like my wife and I, you know, become advocates against underage drinking because that was our our reaction for years. And, you know, that was hard on the kids because you know, here's here's the kids in school, and we're touting against you know, kids not drinking, and all their friends are out there drinking. And so it sometimes our kids didn't get invited to parties anymore, and and um, they lost a lot of friends, and we lost a lot of friends because a lot of people didn't like what we were doing, that we were out there trying to stop, you know, kids from drinking and driving. Don't ask me why, but I mean, it's just it was a big ordeal. So it affected our our family on that level just from socially, but then emotionally. I mean, you know, Kevin has deeply affected my my second my you know, my second eldest son because that Brian was his best friend. And I mean, it's really worn on him through the years. He doesn't have Brian around anymore. And he he sometimes says, you know, Julie and Christy, who are my two daughters, you know, they have each other, but Kevin said he has nobody now because Brian's gone. But they've all had their own emotional ordeal to go through, and and they all have gone into counseling and and including my wife, you know, on and off because it's a tough, it's hard to lose someone you love, but particularly a child, it's just something different about it. Yeah, I've lost my parents and I accepted that, and you get over it kind of quickly because you expect it, but you don't expect your 18-year-old son to die. So it really changes everything. But in the end, I mean we've stayed one thing I one thing about us is that I'm proud of is that we've all stayed together. You know, I think like 70% of the people, parents who lose a child get divorced. Um, my wife and I have really worked together as a team to try to make our way through this, and we have, and I think we're stronger than we ever have been. And I think with our kids, we've tried to keep the family very cohesive. And it was hard going on family vacations after Brian died, but um we've we've stayed together as a family.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yes. So what's I I think you've kind of answered it anyway, but what has what has the journey of grief and purpose looked like for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

The journey of grief and purpose. Um it's just a new trajectory in my life. I mean, I you know, uh as a surgeon, I I would spend all my time in the hospital for a long time. And I mean kids never saw me. I was gone at you know, 4 30 or 5 30 in the morning, and I come home when it's dark. Sometimes I wouldn't even see them go to bed. So um I realized after my son died, there's just more to life than work and and neurosurgery. And I think there's more to life too. About everything was always about me and my work and you know stuff like that. And I realized there's just more to life. There's more that you can do for people because of who you are and your circumstances. So my journey through grief and and that has been, I mean, I've turned the grief into something positive that I can help people with, I think.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I don't know if that answered the question, but I definitely think so because I mean your posts, your posts on Instagram actually demonstrates that and it's it's very powerful, and you constantly remind people, especially when it comes to those festive seasons as well. Yeah, yeah, that you, you know, you should be.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

And it feels weird because you know, I I'm not used to doing it. Like I'm very limited in what I put out a little bit. I don't try to like put something out about Brian or drinking every two minutes because I think get tired of hearing the same old, same old thing. So I'm always reluctant. How how often do I put something out like that or talk about Brian? You know, well, people get sick of okay, can he stop talking about his dead son? Because I think some people feel that way. And so it's always a fine line. Like, how much do you talk about it? And you know, you want to some people really like it and it helps them, other people maybe it turns them off. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, I just wanted to ask you actually. Um, so before you started, did you start using Instagram after Brian um passed away, or were you doing what you were doing before?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

No, so we were doing what we're so we actually started um talking at schools, is what first happened. And we've talked to, you know, hundreds and hundreds of high school classes and millions of kids around the world, but um it all started on Facebook. I would do Facebook posts, you know, and I would do posts about life and grief and a lot of that. And I got a big following on Facebook, and then this this whole social media thing just started like three years ago because my son Kevin said, you know, dad, you ought to just try doing some stuff about neurosurgery on on TikTok. So we started on TikTok, and before we knew it, you know, we had like a hundred thousand followers on TikTok, like in a in a week or two weeks. And so it all it all came from there, and then from there, then we went on to Instagram and YouTube and um and what's the other one? Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. So, but it tick tock was the first one. So Instagram was just a progression of the platforms that we use to post.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Amazing. I know you mentioned Kevin. So my next question actually leads to Kevin. So, what drew you and Kevin to um uh Kilimanjaro and why the that mountain and why that challenge?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, well, it's the challenges, so that's just one of the challenges. So when Brian died, I started taking up things I normally wouldn't do, like running, and then I ultimately ran a couple marathons, and then I did an Iron Man. And that was all because I felt like I need to do things that my son couldn't do anymore. And then Kevin started doing that. He did an Iron Man, and then Kevin and I have decided at least uh once a year we want to do something very challenging for ourselves, kind of in honor of Brian, and just to kind of, I don't know, it's been good for him and me to do things together, challenging. Um, but it's kind of like to honor Brian's life in a way. And we thought Kilmanjaro, um, we both like climbing. We've talked about, you know, Mount Everest someday, but but Kilmanjaro seemed like something that we could do that that was obtainable. So that's why we did it. It was challenging, but something we thought we could logistically do.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah. How did you find it? Was it quite hot?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Oh, how do we find it? Oh, yeah. Well, it's hot, it's hot down at the lower levels, right? But when you get up top, it's freezing, it's below zero. I mean, it's you know like 20 degrees up there or something, 15 degrees, and there's snow. So it's all the different, you go through four different climate zones, but it was very hard. It's the hardest, even beyond my Iron Man. Um, this is the that's the hardest thing I ever did in my life. I mean, it was very, very challenging.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

And how did you prepare for that?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Um, I walked a lot here in Ohio and on a treadmill with an incline, and I just did a lot of walking and hiking and backpacking with weights, and that's all you can do. But I couldn't do any mountain training or anything, and you know, neither of us did because we both live, you know, it's flat here in Ohio. So so it was a challenge. I mean, I, you know, but we did it. It was hard, but we did it.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah. How how did Kevin find it?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

A lot easier than me. Um I mean, just a quick story. So the so the last night, just to give you some reference, so the last night before you, so it's six days to get to the top, and the last night before you get ready to go to the top, um, you're at 15,000 feet and you sleep in a tent for about four hours, and you get up at midnight and it's freezing out, and you get dressed, and you leave, you get up at 11 o'clock and then you leave at midnight. And then we climbed up to 20,000 feet through the night, and at 17,500 feet, it's pitch black out, it's freezing. I couldn't breathe, my heart's racing, and I turned, can't see anything. All you can see is the headlights in front of you. And I turned to the guide and I said, I have to quit. I said, I want to die in this mountain because I really thought I was gonna die. I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. And so he sat me down. He said, You know, if you turn around now, we're not gonna go back. And um, he said, I can't give you oxygen because I give you oxygen, the company's policies, you have to go back. And then him and Kevin gave me a pep talk, inspired me, and said, You know, Dad, Kevin said, Dad, it's all in your head. And I said, Kevin, it's not my head, I can't breathe. But he, you know, he they had good advice. They said, you know, just focus on like I kept looking up, way up, all these lights up in the sky disappearing. And it's just scary me. And he said, Focus just, you know, focus on one foot at a time, just one step at a time. Quit thinking about how far we have to go. And that's what I did. I just, I just one step at a time, we went slower. And then um, you know, about eight o'clock in the morning, we made it. We saw the sunrise come up and and we made it to the top, but it was really hard. And I almost quit. I mean, I almost gave up.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Amazing. Was it easier coming down?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Uh no. You think it you think it would be? I mean, I guess it's easier because you're going with gravity, but it hurt more. It hurts your knees coming down. We we went down from 20,000 feet to 10,000 feet all in one day to the next camp. And so it just kills your knees. I mean, it really hurt bad. They have helicopters, like at 15,000 feet. There's a helicopter pad, and there were people that helicopter was coming every two seconds picking people up because they couldn't make it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

So, how many people all together went there?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

So it's just Kevin and myself, but then you have to hire the porters, right? The the two guides, and then we had like seven porters that that carry your set your tents up, make your food, um, carry your stuff. So, so there was nine people to us two. It's quite the operation, but you know, that's their economy there, that's how they make their livings, and um, they were very, very nice people. And yeah, if you want to see people work hard for for very minimal and not complain, those people are they were wonderful. They're so nice, so hardworking, and they don't get paid hardly anything at all, you know. It's a different life that you that most people can't fathom. I mean, it gives you a real reality check on life when you when you go through a process like that, just to see just being in Africa was an eye-opening thing to me. It's just uh nothing that you can conceive of where we live. It's like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

But everybody seems happy, you know, when they don't have anything yet, they're happy. That's that's the cool thing. And everybody here has everything and they complain, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So it must be the sunshine. Is it sunny where you are?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Um we've had a lot of sun the last month, yes, but in the winter it will be very cloudy.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yes. Same here, same here. So um this leads to my next question, um which is about uh yourself. You have such a challenging role as a neurosurgeon. Um, what keeps you motivated and moving forward in such a demanding field?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, I mean, um, I think for me, part of what nurse surgery was for me is the was the challenge and the and the excellence. Like I wanted if I was gonna go into medicine and be a surgeon, I wanted to be what I thought was the most difficult, challenging surgical specialty there was. So part of it for me is is is the challenge of trying to be the best that you can be. And I thought nurse surgery was that. And then, you know, just helping people like if you could be with me in an office and watch somebody come in when I've done lower back surgery on them a month ago. And when they came to me, they can't walk, you know, they can't go out to dinner, they can't go to the grocery store because they have so much pain in their back and down their legs that they can't do anything. And then they'll come in at a month visit after surgery and they'll say, I have no pain in my legs, my back pain's gone, I'm out golfing now, I'm playing with my kids. It's totally changed my life. And so when you or somebody who comes in almost paralyzed from the neck down, you know, from a pinched spinal cord, and you unpinch their spinal cord, and two months later they're uh they're normal. And and when they were in a wheelchair. And so it's stuff like that that it just makes you feel good about what you do, right? I mean, you're helping people, you're changing their lives and so drastically for the better that you know it's just it's a good feeling. So, I mean, things that keep me going is the challenge of neurosurgery, the technical challenge of it, um, but also it's how how drastically you can help people and change their lives for the better and make a difference in people's lives, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So yeah. I wanted to ask the question. Um this might come across a bit silly, but I just really need to know. You're a neurosurgeon, so you did you deal a lot with the brain, do you?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

The brain, is everybody's brain the same? That's the question, or is it different?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I mean, they're they're pretty much the same. I mean, everybody has the same anatomy of their brain for the most part. Um, the brain weighs about three pounds. I mean, the men's brain are just a little bit bigger than women's, but it has nothing to do with IQ or intelligence, just the way it is. But but in essence, everybody's brain is the same. If you go into a part of the brain and you injure it, no matter who it is, you're gonna have typically the same type of deficit. So, yeah. So there's not a lot of variation in our brains.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

When you say deficit, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, deficit, like so. If I go into um this part of the brain right here and I injure what's called the motor cortex, then you would be paralyzed on the opposite side of your body. You wouldn't move your arm or leg. So so if you did that on any person, if you went into their motor cortex, the the part of the brain that controls strength, if you injure that, no matter who you are, you're gonna lose your strength on the opposite side of your body. So you won't be able to move your arm and leg. So I'm just saying, so everybody's anatomy, it doesn't matter who you are. If you there's certain parts of the brain that that serve certain purposes, and if you injure those, everybody's gonna have the same problem. Like if back here in the back of your brain, if you injure the area in the back of the brain, you're gonna lose your vision. You know, you'll be you won't be able to see. So everybody, I mean, it's everybody, not just certain people.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Oh, I see. Okay. And then it leads me to my next question. Um that wasn't actually part of the question, but I've been okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

You can ask any questions you want.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah. So um, yeah. So what's a typical day like as a neurosurgeon? What does it look like?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah. So it always depends on what stage of career you're in, right? So when I was younger, like in my 30s and 40s, and even my early 50s, I mean, I would do six to eight surgeries a day, and I would be in the hospital all day. I get in early and start surgery like at seven o'clock, but I get in the hospital sometimes around 4:30 or 5 to round on all the people that we have in the hospital, do my surgeries, and then be on call. And then if I was on call and emergencies came in, then you're up all night operating. And then I would start, then I would do surgery the next day or go to office. So you're very busy when you're younger. It just in the past, you know, five years, since I'm getting older, I'm 61 now, I'm slowing down a bit. So today, typically I'll do like two to four surgeries a day and I operate three days a week. So today I just had two surgeries. I had a surgery where I put a tube in someone's brain to drain fluid off. It's called a shunt. So I did that. And then I had a surgery over somebody's spinal cord in their neck, and those are the two surgeries I had. And then tomorrow I have um two surgeries. I have a bigger neck fusion with rods and screws, and then I have a lower back surgery. So, but some days I'll have, you know, three or four surgeries, you know. So my surgeries maybe I do sometimes five a week, or I'll do ten a week, you know. And then we do a week of trauma call. And so, trauma call, we're at a level one trauma center. So, you know, helicopters coming in or ambulances with injured people. And so we see a lot of trauma at our hospital, gunshot wounds, broken backs, broken necks, brain bleeds, brain and brain injuries. So that's a busy week. You know, you can see 60 people that week and need to do a lot of surgery on people. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

So with all this, obviously you're working, you know, there's a lot of pressure. How do you find time to relax and recharge your batteries?

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I I don't really recharge, I guess I don't recharge my batteries. It's like it's just it's just me, it's how I am. So I've always been like that. Like we'll go on a vacation every once in a while, but even on vacation, I can never ask my wife, I can never relax because you're always so hyped up that it's hard to relax. And so it would take longer than a week for me to wind down and be completely relaxed. So I think for me, recharging, it's different. Like when I was younger, I was all about surgery and helping people and doing all this stuff. And that kind of recharged me, I guess, because I was really into that. As I've gotten older, and since my son Brian died, now I'm into more um, I do surgery, but now I'm into more uh social media stuff. What can I do on social media to help and educate people? I enjoy it. So it's something different. You know, I've I've helped a lot of people in my life through brain and spine surgery, but now I can help people through social media. And so that's what I like about. I mean, I'm just kind of transitioning a little bit as I get older. So my my life is different now. And so I do like, you know, today I had two surgeries and I have a podcast now, and I have another Zoom call later today. So I'm doing different stuff now. Different, I'm not just in the operating room till eight o'clock anymore.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

And are you enjoying it? Are you enjoying this phase?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

I am. I I I am enjoying it because it's something different and it's a different way to help people. I like it's a different way to help people, you know, and I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Um so what are your core values that guide you both personally and professionally?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Um my core values, like so professionally, I would say, and I had looked, I mean, this is just a spontaneous here, but I would say my core values professionally is number one integrity and honesty. I mean, that's what I think my patients value most about me is when someone comes into the office, um, first of all, I try to treat everybody like a person and I and listen to them because you know, some surgeons think they know it all, so they don't listen to the patient, they just make the decision for them. And I like to give the patient a chance to talk and tell me what's wrong with them because I can learn a lot just by listening to them. And then once they tell me what's wrong with them, then I can tell them my perspective, what I think is wrong, and then and then we can make a decision about what to do. So my core value is really listening to people and treating people. Nicely, not being arrogant. Um, but also being honest with people. Like if I can help somebody with surgery, I will. But if I can't help somebody with surgery, I don't recommend surgery. I mean, there's so much that goes on out there that maybe people get surgery that maybe don't completely need it. But I'll always never do a surgery unless somebody really needs it. So I so that's where the integrity comes in, you know. And and you have to be honest with people. I mean, I'm just very honest with people. And even after surgery, if they're, you know, say there was some complication, I'm always honest about it, you know, and I don't try to hide anything, you know. Um personally, I think um I'm very purpose-driven, driven, especially now. I mean, I I find I think your your purpose in life is always changing, I think, in different stages of your life. And so I think when I was younger, my purpose was more about you know, neurosurgery has always been number one. I I don't think I hate to say it, but you can't be a part-time neurosurgeon. I mean, there always has to be something number one in your life. And I don't think you can be a neurosurgeon, honestly, and not have it be number one. And my wife knows that, and my kids know it. And I'm a very much a family man, and we've done lots of family vacations, and I spend as much time as I can with my kids, but they understand like if there's an emergency, I'm not going to my kids' baseball game. It's always been like that. I mean, I already missed dinner, you know. I so for me, when I was younger, it's been more about being a neurosurgeon. That's my that's who I am, and that's who I have to be. Um, nowadays I'm a neurosurgeon, but now I feel like I'm more um maybe more purpose-driven for other people. Like I, as you get older, you become wise and you learn that life's not all about you. And I think there's so much I can do for other people and give back more than just me taking being a neurosurgeon all the time. So I think that's where I'm in my life. I think a lot of people as they get older, it's more about what can I give back, especially through social media now. Even like doing this, I enjoy this. You know, it's it's fun. And um, and if it helps anybody, I think it's wonderful, you know. And so I don't know if they answer your question, but it's just it's it's different stages of life, you know. I mean, yeah, I think we all go through it to some extent.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yes. So you've built a strong community online. How do you hope your story inspire others, especially young people?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, I mean, I I hope it will. So that's just one facet of me. Like, so I think Brian's story um, you know, we go out and talk to to kids of high schools, not as much anymore, but we've been on national television multiple times, and I've written a book about Brian dying. And I think um as far as my my son's death goes, I think there's just so much that I can do to well, how can I put it? We've opened up a communication between parents and their kids. I think all the stuff that we've done on social media and through the media itself, um, and through my book, it it gets parents and kids talking about alcohol. Like a lot of kids are afraid to tell their parents that they drink or they don't want to call if they've been at a party and they're drunk, they don't want to call their parents for a ride home because then they'll know they're drinking. But I think we're we're broaching that barrier where kids are feeling more comfortable now to talk to their parents or or Brian's been like, you just have to be with us. I mean, there's so many thousands of comments and people that have contacted us, parents and kids, who say, you know, there's a lot of kids that will contact us through social media and say, I was at a party and I was starting to drink and I was having a few, and then I was gonna think about driving. And then I said, you know, I remember, I remember you guys talking about your son who died from drinking and driving. He seemed like a really cool kid, a normal kid. And I thought to myself, you know, I'm not gonna take that next drink, or I'm not gonna drive. I'm gonna call for an Uber or ask my friend to take me home. Or I decided to call my mom or dad. And so it's opened up a communication between kids and their parents, and also it's got kids thinking because Brian is somebody they can recognize. Brian's like them, you know, he was very much kind of all-around kid. And and people can recognize Brian in themselves. And so they go to parties and they they all, I mean, Brian's probably reached over 100, 200 million people around the world. And people know him now and they'll they'll say, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, I remember that kid. I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm gonna call and get a ride. Um, so that, you know, that's the Brian story. But then I I I want to inspire people with all kinds of other things. Like I think, I think people need to be inspired about taking control of their health and and exercising, eating properly. I'm really into that. I think it's important. Um, and you know, I had um panic attacks when I was younger for like 20 years. I mean, I had panic disorder and it it really changed my life. And I've I've done some posts on that and I've done a podcast on it. But, you know, I think it helps people that they can see. Here's a neurosurgeon who who used to have panic attacks and he became a neurosurgeon. I just had somebody from Ireland contact me two mornings ago and said, I watched your podcast on panic attacks. And she said, I'm a professional person too. And it's so nice that I can see somebody else out there who struggle has struggled with this. And it was kind of sad. She said, you know, I have a I have a husband and a wife and a really great family, but she said, I know I'm not the person I could be because of these panic attacks. Like she feels like she's less than what she could be because of her panic attacks, which is, I don't know, if you can inspire people to try to work their way through something like that, let them know there's other people out there who have struggled with that. So there's a lot of different things that I want to try to educate people on and maybe inspire them on.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah. Um I was going to ask you, what advice would you give someone watching and someone facing um a deep personal loss or struggling to find a way to move forward?

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah. So that's a good question. And I've thought about that a lot because why, you know, why did we like I could have, after my son died, I could have easily quit work, become an alcoholic, you know, not done anything, got divorced, and that could have happened, or I could do what I did, go back to work in two weeks, continue to be a nurse surgeon, keep our family going. And why did I choose that route? And why do some people go the other way? I I don't know why, but I know for me it was finding a purpose. I mean, it's all, you know, I just I knew there that I couldn't let my son die and not do something about it and something positive. And I knew there was more to Brian that could give positivity in the world, but also give people um, you know, more meaning and purpose. And so that's that that's what I would tell someone to do is if you had if you've had a tragedy in your life, try to find some purpose in it and do something to help somebody else with it. I think that's for me, helping other people through Brian's death has been the best thing. And I think if you can take whatever tragedy it is that you have or hardship in your life, and instead of trying to look at it in a negative way, which I know it's not, I know it's hard, Mac. You know, my wife, I think, uh, well, she seriously thought about killing herself after Brian died. And she'd be the first one to tell you that. And um, it was only because of our kids. I think we didn't have kids, other kids, she will probably would have. It's that bad. But we um, but you have to kind of turn, you have to get a mindset. And you know, you just instead of running a negative mindset, you got to think about what can I do, what can I do to this to turn into something positive. And it by helping other people and having a purpose, it changes your life into more positive. You know, I I never thought we would be happy again, but we are. I mean, life's not the same and it never will be, but we're happy again and and we just have a different, a different life and and different purpose and mission in life now, I think. That's a tough question because everybody, you know, why why does one why does one person life fall apart? I I can't tell you the number of people that we've met who've lost children, whose lives have fallen apart, have gotten divorced, um, they're not employed anymore. And so why did they go that route? I I mean, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just innate to some people. I don't I don't know. But if I had advice to somebody, I'd say step back and just you know, it's a horrible thing that happened, but now you can't change the past, but you can change the future. So I mean look at it that way and try to do something positive in honor of the tragedy that you've had and do something positive with it. Easier said than done, I understand that.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

But yes, no, I yes, I I understand where you're coming from because there was a family in the UK many, many, many years ago, and their son got killed. His name is Stephen Lawrence.

unknown 30:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

And his was a racist attack. They attacked him at the bus stop. And inasmuch as you know, the family they were very, very, very, very strong. But you know, the parents ended up separating. And it was all I think it was probably due to the you know, to the incidents. I mean, many years after the incident happened, they separated, but they looked so strong, you know, when you said I think part of it, you can't blame, you can't blame each other.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Like I, you know, it would be easy for Cindy and I to blame each other, like, you know, you knew he was drinking, or why was he drinking, or what did we do wrong, or this? I mean, you can blame each other, but you can't do that. I mean, there I it just took a long time to realize you can't think you can't change life. Life's gonna happen and you can't change it. And the only thing you can change is how you react to life, right? So you can't change things are gonna happen in your life, it's out of your control. There's just no way we were good parents, we don't drink hardly at all, we didn't set any bad examples. It's just that it happened, right? And it's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that it has to happen to somebody else, and you can use that to help other people. So you just have to react to life, uh you know, not not be a victim of it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yes. So um, in one of your Instagram posts, and I absolutely love this, it was about a month ago, I think you posted it, and you mentioned that you're entering what you called the last 30 years of your life, and you wanted to give back in the best way possible. You spoke about three primary goals. Could you share more about them to us?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah, I don't I'm I'm probably not gonna remember exactly what I said. Um I just feel like you know, I'm in the last 30 years of my life, and I think um, you know, I kind of broke it down. Like you said, your your first 30 years, it seems like you're just accumulating knowledge constantly. It's all you're doing, you know, for me. And then my next 30 years was just about helping people, right? I mean, I I constantly was just helping people through neurosurgery, and it was all about, you know, me and helping people. And and I I think my last 30 years for me is I just feel like I should change the way I am. My purpose should be to help other people and to focus more on what I can do to make the world a better place. And so that's that's kind of what that post was about. Is I mean, my last 30 years, I mean, my my goals are changing. And I I realize I only have so many days left. And so I don't want my life to just be about going in the hospital, operating on people, coming home, going to sleep, and going back to work. So for me, it's not so much about work anymore, it's about social media and what kind of what kind of impact can I leave on the world and and spending more time with my family and doing things more with my kids and my family, um, and focusing on the things that maybe I didn't focus on as much my last 30 years. I think that's what that was all about. Because I think as you get older, you know, you just realize your mortality, like I only have so many years left, and um I want to make the most of it and do some things that I haven't done in my life, you know, and and I want to stay healthy, you know. I want I like I talked a little bit about health. I mean, I think for me it's so important to try to eat halfway healthy, exercise, and just try to have my best health I can have as long as I can have, because I I don't want to, I don't want to have all these medical conditions and be on all these pills and end up in a nursing home when I'm 75 and 80 and have my kids have to take care of me. So for me, a big part of it is trying to stay as healthy as I can so I can enjoy my next 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

So I don't know if that's exactly what I said in the post, but it's something along that line.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, no, that's fine. So if there was one thing that you'd like people to take away today, what would that be? Just one thing. If you've got more than one, that's also fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Well, I would I would say that there's more to life than you. If you want to take if you want one thing, is there's more to life to you than you, you know, and meaning focus on other people. Um, and you can focus on yourself. It's important to focus on yourself. You have to, you know, take care of yourself first. But and then also it would be that um, you know, there's more, there is more to life. And I only learned that through my son, Brian, because you just never know when your last day may be. And so it's not reasonable to say, you know how people say live your every day like it's your last day. I mean, what does that mean? Are you gonna go out and go skiing in the Alps or something? You can't, it's not reasonable, right? You still have to have a job and go to work and stuff like that, but it just means that enjoy every day as much as you can. Like, don't have such a negative attitude, don't be a downer. You know, take your wife out to dinner, you're go out to dinner with your kids or husband, or do something like do something every day, do something that's just a little bit more than what you would normally do. That's all I mean by enjoying, you know, taking making each day matter, or do something for somebody. I mean, I I I can't tell you how often I stop and talk to people now in the hospital, hold the door for somebody, or just start an old old person, just start talking to them. I think it means a lot to them.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

I mean, yes, it's it means a lot when you, you know, when people feel seen.

unknown 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Because a lot of the time we go around not being present in our environment. And you know, it's important to be present and to be present with those around you as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Oh, I think if I'm gonna leave you with one, let me leave you with one little story, and it's a very important story, but you'll get the drift of it. So when Brian died, you know, his funeral days were really long. We had like 300, 400 people uh each day come through. And so Cindy and I would stand in line and we'd be there from eight in the morning to like seven at night. And it was it was grueling because people are coming there to talk to us about Brian, give their condolences, and then see Brian. So it's the second day. The lines went outside of the funeral home, out in the parking lot. It was winter, so it's freezing. So people would wait outside and then come in. So it took about three hours of waiting before they get to us. I mean, it's crazy. Um, anyways, this guy comes up and he's an older guy, and Cindy and I, my wife had never met him before, and he came up to us and he said, I know you guys don't know me, but I just want you to know I was a starter at the golf course where your son practiced, where you where the team practiced. And he said, Brian would come every, every, I think twice a week or once a week, the team would practice there. And he said he would always come up to me and he would talk to me, and most of the other kids would just walk right by me. But he said, Your son would always stop and talk to me, and he would ask you about my day and ask me about you know what was going on in my life. And he took interest in me and he said, you know, I don't have many people do that. I'm just the starter at the golf course. But he said that meant something to me. He said, Your son meant something to me, even if it was just seeing him once a week. And he said, I just wanted you guys to know that. Now that shows you how you can make an impact. So here's a guy who doesn't know us, never met us before, waited in a parking lot of funeral home he's never been to before, three hours, to just come up and tell us that. I mean, that tells you something that the power you have when you just take a little bit of time with people, like you said, and make them feel seen and just make a bond. Look, look at the impact you can make on that, on a person. And so, you know, my son taught me that in a horrible way, but he taught he taught us that. And that's that will always stick with me the rest of my life because it it's proof that you can make a difference in people's lives just by the simple things that you do. You don't think opening a door or holding an elevator for someone means anything, or asking someone, you know, how are you doing today? But it does, people remember it.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

So and I think in today's society it's even um so much more important um because uh everybody's on their device, they're not aware of what's going on in their environment.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

So if the listeners were to find you, could you? I mean, I am going to post it, but could you give us where they could um your social media handles where they can find you?

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah, I um I it's just Dr. Hefflinger. I think they're all Dr. Hefflinger. So it's it's D-O-C-T-O-R. So D-O-C-T-O Dr. and then Hefflinger, H O E F L I N G E R. So it's Dr. Hefflinger. Um, and then you just type that into TikTok or or Instagram or Facebook, and and my profile comes up.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

I don't have all the I'm not like no, I will like all these people go, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

So um, but for anybody who would be interested, what you may enjoy if you like this stuff, would be reading my book because it's it's very, very emotional. Um, I've had 85-year-old gentlemen tell me that they cried through the first two chapters, first three chapters. Um, it's a good book, it's only like 300 pages, not a long read, but it will teach you lessons in life and it will make you cry a thousand percent. I would give you your money back if you don't cry the first couple chapters. But it goes over it goes over crying. Oh, it's called The Night He Died. So The Night He Died. Um, and it's it's I'm the author, Brian Hefflinger. And um, it's it's a very impactful book. And I talk about the whole journey from the day what we went through that day that Brian died through the whole week after him dying, and then looking into the future. But um it's just like every little chapter has a lesson to it about what we learned about life and and um what Brian taught us about life, but it's it's a good book.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yes, I will I will put a link as well when I post this.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

And thank you so much. I feel so honored to have had you on my podcast.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

That was my my pleasure. It was I was um it's always humbling when someone contacts you and asks you to be on their podcast, like a who am I to be to people to listen to, but but it's nice um it's nice to hear it that that people are out there listening and and um you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

I just find your material very motivating.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Thank you.