Exploring the Power of Relationships with Funmi Okonweze

In my latest conversation, I sat down with Funmi Okonweze — a Certified Chartered Accountant turned Relationship Coach whose powerful journey began over a decade ago after the breakdown of her marriage. Determined to understand what makes relationships thrive, she embarked on deep research, self-reflection, and growth… a journey that not only restored her own marriage but sparked her passion for helping others do the same.
 
 Today, Funmi is preparing to release her new book,
 “Restore Your Broken Marriage and Create Your Happily Ever After.”
 She has since dedicated years to guiding couples through challenges, offering practical tools, wisdom, and hope.
 
 With 20+ years in investment banking and as a Fellow of the Association of Certified Chartered Accountants, Funmi brings both professional excellence and heartfelt experience to her work. She lives in London with her husband of 25+ years and their two children.
 
 Connect with Funmi:
 Website: mymarriagehandbook.com
 Email: info@mymarriagehandbook.com
 Instagram: @mymarriagehandbook
TikTok: @mymarriagehandbook
TEDx Talk: “What Makes a Marriage Thrive?”

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

My guest today is Fumi Okoenzi. She is a certified charted accountant and a relationship coach. Before we go any further, I'll get Fumi to introduce herself.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Well, hello coach. Hello, Faith. Thanks for having me today. I am Fumi Okunwizi, as you already said, uh chartered accountant by profession and a relationship coach, author, TEDx speaker, wife, mother. I wear a few hats, but I don't look at myself as the jack of all trades, if you know what I mean. To be honest, I'm an accountant pivoting into a new career as a relationship coach. So that sums it up in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Okay, so um, I mean, today we're going to be talking about uh relationships. So why relationship? Why did you go into that area? And if you can It's interesting. Um, it's sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yes, it's interesting because um I'll say it's uh something that found me. You know, sometimes when life throws you a curveball and you're all there wondering, you know, why why, why me, what's happening, why did this happen to me? Um it's usually or and a lot of a lot of the time, uh uh a segue into something that God or the universe wants to use you to maybe affect other people's lives. So for me, um it was my own relationship issues that um were when I was going through some uh very difficult issues and looking for help, I couldn't find the help that I needed. So I started to do research to find, you know, just trying to find something that would help me. And interestingly, during that time, anytime I found something that I found helpful, I'll take notes. And before long, I was thinking, oh, this is the sort of book, or these notes are the sort of things that I would have wanted to find when I was looking for trouble or when I was looking for help for my issues. So I started to put together a book at that point, you know, that this will be very helpful for somebody else who's going through the same. And um, by the end of that whole process and the healing and everything, I realized that actually I can help others, and it felt like this is the calling for me. I became so passionate about relationships, so um, yeah, it was something that found me. I didn't go looking for it, it wasn't even on my on my radar at all. So that's that's how it all started.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

So a relationship is so important, you know, for for you know, for everybody. It's almost like a survival tool. But how would you define a relationship?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Well, I mean, relationships, I mean, if we're defining it, um, we could just call it very simply a web of connections that are emotional, that are social, even professional, that ties people together. And as you said, it is a means of survival. I mean, as babies, you know, we form relationships from when we're babies with whoever is feeding us, those who are around us, and we need those things to stimulate us, right? Um, for example, it's a you know a baby needs a relationship to be able to feed, they need it to interact for intellectual and emotional development, for recreation, for fun. So it's so important, even as we grow older, no man is an island. You know, you need somebody even just to get food on your table. So we form relationships as we go along in life just to be able to survive. So um it's an essential part of our development, and it's important that if we're to be happy in our lives, we need to know how to navigate the those relationships. We need to understand the complexities of relationships, to understand how we show up and how we relate to others, and to understand that however we present ourselves is how people receive us as well, right? And whatever we put out there is what comes back to us. So it's it's something that's very subliminal without us really realizing it. So um these are these the these it's very it's very important to understand how essential it is for us to know how to navigate those complexities. If not, we'll go through life being very miserable, and there's almost, I don't want to say there's a science to it, but um relationships are very much about something you call, I call the law of attraction or the laws of sowing and reaping, uh, come very much are very much uh involved in relationships. So once we understand that, we start to have we start to have better experiences with the people around us.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yes. I just wanted to ask you a quick question, just going back to one of the things she said, that it's whatever we put out there, that's what we get back. Can you talk a little bit more about that, please?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yes, absolutely. So um the world actually is based on the laws of cause and effect. You know, everything for every action, there's a reaction. These are like science, scientific laws, uh, natural laws. If I take a seed, an apple seed, and I put it in the ground, it will produce apples, it won't produce a banana or an apple or an orange or a mango. So, likewise, if you present yourself as um maybe some people like to be catty and you know not very nice, and you're constantly putting people down, as you start to push that out into the world, eventually you're going to start to attract that um sort of behavior from from other people around you, and then you'll be wondering, oh, why is it that when I'm in the office or something, these people are always being catty to me or being forgetting that actually that's how you are, that's what you're putting out there. Um, and it usually it always rebounds. Um, so when you start to, and also, I mean, in relationships, for example, um, sometimes, you know, because of our experiences and the people we're around, we we certain things get pushed into our subconscious mind. So, for example, uh coming from Nigeria, as we both do, you know, you hear things like, oh, men, men are, you know, they're liars or women are users, those sort of um stereotypes. And so if that is deep in your subconscious mind, when you meet a partner, you have that at the back of your mind and you're expecting that person to behave that way. So you're projecting, you start to project onto the person. So, for example, if that partner then goes out and comes back late, and you're the message in your mind is men are cheats, then you're gonna think, oh, he's out there cheating. And then so when he comes back, the way you're going to then respond to him or speak with him will be one of already annoyance. So you thought the worst already. And by doing so, you're then projecting your own belief system onto him. And let's say, for example, he wasn't, he was maybe his train was delayed or he was working late, and he really was. If that happens a few times, that the person on the receiving end is going to start to get upset. So now you're creating now because of your belief system, you've now created something in your relationship that wasn't there, but it would it that wouldn't have been there if not for your belief system. So whatever you put out there, ultimately you're going to get back in one way or another. So I don't know if I've explained that well enough or clearly enough.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yes, you yes, you have. Would you say that's also the same in um like a in in in friendship?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

It's with every relationship that you have, relationship, you know, and I know that sometimes you know you go into a relationship, you really trust somebody, and they hurt you, and things do happen. Yeah, but in life, you know, because we're all different, and people people have you people have been brought up, um, you know, even if two people two people from the same family, uh, you know, that the way they see life could be different. Right. So when you come together with other people, because you're all coming from different spaces, different mindsets, of course, you expect things never to be quite aligned. Now, if somebody hurts you, you then have to understand. So, what happened there? You know, is it based on their belief system? Would they have treated someone else the same way? You know, and these are the complexities of relationships that we have to understand as we go along. You know, if somebody was not nice to you, maybe they were not nice because this is how they were raised, this is their understanding of how they can survive or how they put themselves out in the world. So though we may be hurt, once we understand that, um, I don't know if you're a Christian, but um the you know, the Bible some the Bible says that love those who who who who um curse you or you know bless those who curse you. So if you then sort of maybe send back anger to that person, it then becomes a cycle until somebody steps back and says, Hey, let's talk about this, let's um let's try and squash this, let's, you know, or then decide that you know you and I can never be friends again or whatever. But if you take away the anger from that relationship and you know, and the upset and the experience, and then take it into a new relationship, which is what we call baggage, you know, they're very likely then going to experience the same thing there again, because now you've absorbed some of what happened to you in that other relationship, and now you're going to start to project it onto that the new person you meet and think, oh, um XYZ treated me that way last time. I'm never gonna let it happen to me again. So, therefore, now I'm going to be very cautious with you because I don't trust you, I don't trust what your motives are, and so you're now sowing that new seed, you know, rather than thinking that, oh, you know, that's finished. That situation ended there. This is a new person with a new mindset, new set of beliefs. You know, I'm going to show up with my best in my, you know, as my best self, I'm going to sow love into this relationship, I'm going to sow kindness into that relationship, and I'm going to be open and believe that as I'm sowing that, that's what I'm going to get back. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So, yeah, just going back a little um, you know, backwards. So, in terms of relationship, what does relationship mean to you personally? And have you cultivated that over the years?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Relationships, um, as I've already said, are a means of survival, you know, um something that um it helps is it helps for your general well-being, your my general well-being, to know that I have people around that um I can trust, that I can turn to if I needed something, people that can come to me as well. It's not a one-way uh uh situation. Um, and over the years, I think my experiences have helped me cultivate my relationships. I went out into the world as a little child, and I remember somebody being horrible to me in school for the first time, and I was stopped. So this person did this to me, and um, and she said, Oh, if they say that to you, then say you know, say it back. I don't know if that was the best advice, but yeah, say it back to them. So at that point, I sort of grew, you know, I became stronger, and I thought no one is ever going to say anything or bully me or what have you. But over the years, um I realized that that doesn't always work, you know, and a lot of in fact, you get better results when you go away and you lead with love. Um, you actually do get better results, and over the years, from work experiences, from uh family relationships, and you know, my marriage, etc., I realized that. And if you remember at the beginning, I said it's almost like a science. I don't want to call this a science, but it is almost like a science that when you go back and you leave with love quietly, in your quiet time, and you pray for the people that or you send out love to them, or you um send out blessing and try to center yourself to to receive what was sent out at you differently. So somebody could say something, and we can take it in any way we in any which way we want, and maybe not take offense from it and try and change it into something that can be positive, and then you can go back in love, and then those relationships would be they usually change, at least in my experience. And uh, so for me, relationships are beautiful, uh, they could be about loving, and relationships actually also start with myself. Yes, you know, learning how to love myself, understanding my the important, you know, my own importance in life, and the way that you treat yourself, that you allow others to treat you as well. Right? So, yeah, so all those things to me are what relationships mean. Um, but I should have said from the beginning, the relationship with yourself is where it starts. You know, understanding yourself, how you present yourself, and understanding that whatever you're putting out there, you're gonna get it back. And that it indeed helps you become a better version of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yes, it's um yes, you're absolutely right, but a lot of people don't actually know that because it's not something we're taught when you know, when people are growing up, it's not something they're taught, especially in certain cultures. Um I don't know what your thoughts are on that, because it's you know, it's only when you grow up and you see how other people act um towards themselves that's when you start kind of um I guess having a better relationship with you know with yourself. Like you said, um the relationship that is important starts with yourself, but how would a person start cultivating that when they don't even know?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yes, um, and uh in a way, I don't it it in a way it's the failing of society and how we're raised, how we teach children um as they grow up. Um, I mean, of course, if the parent doesn't know, they're not going to be able to teach their child. So um, and actually, this is why I'm in this field, because I learned so much, and some of the things I knew them already, but I couldn't bring it all together to apply it. So when we're when we're young, what we notice is that we get all these subliminal messages pushed into our heads, and I'll I'll give um marital relationships or you know, um romantic relationships as an example. You know, when we're young, we see all these fairy tales, Cinderella, Snow White, um, where this there's a woman who is has some sort of adversity, and then there's this uh heroic figure, usually a prince, who rides up and saves her, and they live happily ever after, right? So as children, we are sort of groomed to believe that, and even if you watch you know the TV shows, the rom coms, the music we listen to, it's all about love and romance and all that stuff. So we have this idea in our heads of what we think it should be, without anyone ever really saying anything to us, you know, no one ever teaches us anything. So we just grow up in the world and think, okay, I meet somebody, and then things will fall into place at some point, you know, and then the person does this and they do that, and of course, you're doing the same, and suddenly it feels like a you know, this is not what I signed up for, you know. Why can't it be like the the fairy, you know, or you think that's the ideal, that's how it should be. Um, and but we haven't had any teachings. We no one's been taught about looking at yourself. How do you present yourself? None of that. And I I did a TEDx talk a couple of years ago, and I opened it with this analog with an analogy to this situation. And I'll say it here. So imagine that you're starting a new job and you go into the office, and your boss he welcomes you at the door and says, Okay, um, right, you can sit wherever you like. We have no rules here. You can't start anytime you like, leave at anytime you like. Um, we don't have any financial planning, no business strategy, we don't market the business, there's no communication. But um, one thing that we'll require of you is that you keep your fingers crossed and make things up as you go along and hope that the business will succeed. That's what we do with our relationships. You know, we meet somebody, we go get into the relationship, there is no consideration necessarily about how we're gonna get from A to B. You know, it's all just love and romance and you know, the um euphoria of the newness, you know, the honeymoon phase, as they call it. And then when reality dawns, you know, this maybe this person has a bad temper. How do they cope with that situation? How does the and then all of a sudden you now everybody now realizes that you know that they're trying to keep their heads above water, but there's been no there's been no training, you know. And I think that this is something that should be part of the curriculum at school, so that people can begin to learn about themselves, how they present themselves in society, how to be kind to people, because you'll be surprised about at how many people don't even understand, they don't even get that basic training. That you know it's important to be nice to people because not necessarily because of those people, but because of yourself, because you're gonna get it back somewhere else. Yes, you know, so that training should start from when people are really young, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

So, um, everything you've said, can you still hear me?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yes, I can hear you.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, it's so important. Everything you said is actually I I feel it should be part of what they are teaching in school. Um, yes, just so important, you know. When you I mean, on social media now you hear how people are not so kind to themselves, even young people um, you know, taking their lives because they've been bullied, and it's absolutely and it's because perhaps you know no one is ever taught them certain things, and me having it's so important to teach them from a young age on in terms of being confident and loving yourself and putting yourself apart. So um I was just going to ask you, what does a healthy relationship look like in terms of friendship and in um in a relationship as well, when you're in a relationship with with a person?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Right. So it's important to establish that there is no one size fits all.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

A healthy relationship is what The two people in that relationship define as a healthy relationship. I mean, I'd like to put out some standards, of course, but through my throughout my research, I realized that people do think differently. You know, so a healthy relationship is where we're meeting each other's needs. Now, someone might look in and say that's not a healthy relationship, because you know, um, I don't know, maybe one person seems to be doing more than the other one is doing, or etc. But it's what feeds your needs at that point in time. However, if it's feeding your needs, what is it doing to you psychologically? Right? So a healthy relationship is one that to me fulfills you mentally, physically, psychologically, right? And as we go along, we we amend it in a way because maybe the person you're with or your friend may not be able to meet all those needs. Right? So you you you just have to understand another health, another healthy part of a relationship is people accepting you for who you are. You're able to be yourself in your relationship. The person sees you for who you are and likes you, understanding that we all have our flaws, and they understand that. And they say, Oh, yeah, I know you, you never wake up on time, you're always late, and not feel angry about it, you know. Um, so it's so it's something that something where you feel comfortable, both parties feel comfortable in their own skin and the relationship. They're being fulfilled, their needs are being met. Um, they feel like it's their home. If you, you know, when they're with that person, they feel that they're home. You they can just be themselves. So for me, that's what a healthy relationship looks like.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

And um, I mean, social media sometimes you read in places that relationship has to be, especially when it comes to a romantic relationship, like it has to be 50-50. Do you believe in that? Do you think it has to be 50-50?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

I I think um I don't think um anything can be so linear. Do you understand what I'm saying? It I think it depends on where the person is. I think a relation a good relationship is where you are you are supporting each other as you need to be so supported, you know, because if you say 50 to 50, you know, it could be that somebody has a very high-powered job and they're busy there all the time, and for that reason, they're not able to be there as much as you'd want them to be, and they may need you to step up at that point in time to maybe make be the one making the phone calls because they're you know, let's say the person is a you know, some sort of surgeon, and they have maybe they have they work in two different hospitals, and so they're on call, they're doing this, they're doing that, and so they haven't responded to your text, for example, you know. Um, then it's understanding that okay, I understand you're there, I will support you as you need to be supported at this point. And so maybe you might feel you're doing a little bit more, but it can never be one-sided for it to work. And I think it's under when you're in any relationship, and this is part of what I'm saying, you need that coaching and that training to understand how to navigate the complexities of relationships. So when you look at the social media viral posts, you know, they're sort of these um one-line oversimplifications where people are thinking, oh, right, if he's not bringing 50 or she's not bringing 50, then that's it, it's over. This isn't a good relationship, and then you're dropping something and going to be linear, and then you're dropping that as well, and there's nothing afterwards because you're not going to find that. So that 50-50 we're talking about actually comes through competition and strategic planning to understand because if you're saying 50-50, you don't know if you don't discuss what your partner's needs are, that they need to be met at 50-50. Well, what 50-50 are you giving? Because 50-50, what does that mean really? It means that my needs are being met. I'm putting part, uh, you know, I'm putting, I'm doing my part and you're doing your part. So you have to discuss it, you have to understand what is expected, and then you can then see how we're both showing up for each other, be it in a romantic relationship, be it in a friendship relationship. Interestingly, with friendship relationships, we tend to be more relaxed, you know, because we're not with with the romantic relationships, especially if you end up getting married or being in some sort of uh civil partnership or what have you. You know, you're putting your your everything into it. You live together, you're putting all your finances, you're putting your all your emotions, you're you're you're you're investing into something, into a future with somebody. So you have to have it's like what I said with the business analogy earlier. You have to have a plan, you've got to have a strategy, you've got to be able to communicate, you've got to be able to be meet each other's needs, uh, whatever those needs be. You know, so um yeah, 50-50 is not this uh linear thing where yeah, 50 to 50 on your terms, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Um so social media kind of would you say social media has changed the way people see relationships or um because expectations is so much greater now in terms of because some people see people having such a fabulous lifestyle or having such a great time in their relationship and you keep thinking, oh my god, but this is not happening. And um you've been a relationship coach, what type of advice would you give to people in terms of um yeah, in terms of this type of scenario? Because social media is not true. You only see a small segment of what's actually happening in people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Exactly. And um, it's so funny you should talk about this because I I did a talk on another TEDx talk on this a few months ago about how social media is um changing the way we view relationships, romantic relationships. Now, um the most important thing to understand is that all relationships are different. So there is this individual online who is given advice. The first question I would ask is: who is this person? What is their experience? Are they experienced in this field? Do they are they uh trained in this field? Right? What is their motive? A lot of social media motive um um influencers, their motive is to monetize their their page. You're right, right? So this is a business for them, and how do they get that business? It's by attracting a lot of people to their page. So they will say sometimes the most outrageous things because that's how they feel, that's their own experience and their own relationships, they're not necessarily trained. I've seen on married people giving marriage advice online. So, what I would say is if you hear something on social media for starters, find out what that person's background is. Are they a trained counselor in relationships? Are they an expert in the field? Have they written a book on it? Find out more about the person before jumping on the bandwagon and saying, Oh, yes, I mean, I I saw one woman, um, because when I was doing research, who was saying, oh, she she she she she hates men, but you know, but and she's but she's given advice on if you're going to go into a relationship, you know, and how you know what you should be looking for, you know, the minute somebody says that that's it, you just move on, you know, and people, even older people are saying, Oh, I wish I'd heard this advice when I was your age. And I'm thinking, hmm, um what sort of advice is that? You know, nothing in in relationships is that simple. So use it as a conversation starter, certainly, with your friends and everything, but make sure that you're following the right voices. You can't just listen. I mean, you have all these um alpha males online, and they're given this also this sort of advice and say, you know, men must be you, you know, the you must be stoic. You can't, you can't, if you show your emotions, you're going to be like a woman, uh like a woman, and then they won't respect you and all this, and you know, and then that there are load of loads of men who who are listening to this advice, you know, and that's sort of the alpha male old world way of doing things. But you know, we have to respect one another and be kind to one another and all that stuff. We don't usually hear that. So all those viral sound bites are usually simplification of human complexity. You you you you you can't take it as gospel. If you want your relationship to be good, you know, of course, as you said, everybody shows the best side. There's another lady I saw, you know, talking about um, you know, when you're looking for your mate, go for go for just the wealthy people, you know. And then she'll show you her lifestyle with her husband and on the yachts and all this stuff, and all the women are saying, it's only a wealthy man for me who's gonna provide this for me. And you're thinking, so how are you going to get that? You know, it's not just that straightforward. How many wealthy men are there in the world whilst you're sitting waiting, you know, for for this elusive wealthy man, all the good people around you uh, you know, dropping up. So so yeah, you can't, I mean, you can use it for entertainment, social media. And of course, I'm not saying that you can't get good from it, because there are the actual professionals online, the experts who are giving advice. So find what you know makes sense. But again, how would you know when you're younger? Because I've spoken with younger people now, and many of them are being sucked in by these um by these posts.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

No, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Just um, so one of the things I wanted to ask you is have you ever experienced a time when a strong relationship helped you through a difficult um period? I don't know if you can still hear me. What happened? I don't know, but you're back now. Can you hear me? Technology problems. Yeah, can you hear me for me? I can hear you. Yeah, I can hear you now. What happened? What when did I go? Yeah, no, no, no. I I can hear you. I didn't know when you went. Oh, okay. It's it was only for a second. It's uh technology. So I was asking that uh have you ever experienced um have you ever experienced a time when a strong relationship helped you through it a difficult period?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Um could you say that again?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I think you cut out.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yes, I said, have you ever experienced a time when can you hear me now?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Um I can hear you now, yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Have you ever experienced a time when a strong relationship helped you through a difficult period?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Um yes. So when you say a strong relationship, do you mean with a friend or with uh uh with a with a partner or with a counselor or something?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Uh you can you can give any example you you know you wish to give.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yes, yeah. So from for me as an individual, I find it hard to tell people if if something is going on with me, I find it difficult. So if if if there if there's a difficult period, I find it hard to go to someone who is a friend, for example, to say, hey, this is what I'm going through. Um unless I know that they have the ability to carry it as well. Do you know what I mean? So that relationship usually is my mother. Um that from when I was young, she would always be there to support me with the advice that I need. Um with she taught me about the law of attraction particularly from when I was about seven years old. So she helped she helped me to shape um how I feel in life um based on that. Um now what a particular hard experience I've been through, I would say has been with either an expert or a counselor, really are those who have helped me get through the issues that I've had. Because what I found is I I remember one I have had two two very big things that have understood me. Um relationship related. Though she she gave me advice and all that, it didn't help me, and it was not until I found a hell am I? Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 37:12

I can just hear you now. You were breaking up before. Ah, okay. So um so what I was saying is that I don't know, uh should I go back a bit uh or yes please. I think you mentioned something about um cancel counselor counselling.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yes, yes from an expert. Yes, from an expert. Um sometimes we need that nurturing from a friend, or you know, but I I need to make sure that they're able to give me the correct advice um and they're able to carry that burden because sometimes I'll give you I'll explain why. Now, if for example a person is having issues in their marriage, and I go to my and they go to their friend and say, Hey, this is what is going on there. Now that friend is only hearing one side of the story, they're also not an expert. So the advice they give you will be based on what you've told them. What you've told them may not necessarily be a true reflection of what is happening. Because if the other person comes in and says how they feel, it may not tie back to what you're saying. So, how is your friend supposed to give you the correct advice based on the information you've given? So, if they give you the advice and then you act on it, well, you haven't had the best advice for the situation because you've just given information based on how you feel, right? So for me, yeah, so for me, it's it was important to seek more of the professional advice so that even if I'm given one side of a story, they're trained to be able to ask certain other questions that might uncover something else, even if the other person isn't at that counselor at the same time. And actually, it all boils down to yourself. When um I had a major situation in my life um some years ago that actually inspired this book, uh, and being to several counselors previously and all that, it actually took me going into myself, and I'm not saying it that can happen for everybody, and looking for searching for the answers myself and realizing that actually I need to grow. I need to present myself as I'm not saying I'm a bad person or that everything, whatever happened was my fault, but I'm part responsible for anything that happens in my life. I have to take responsibility, even if you feel oh, that person did this, that person. So it's just understanding that yes, it's good to go to somebody else, but be very aware that when you're going to that person, that will they be able to support you in the way that you need to be supported? So they might give you, they might put for you and love you and all that, and that might be enough. But where the advice is concerned, I would tread more cautiously based depending on the situation. I think that that's uh so you might be a better thing to do, but yeah, normally if it's a person, it will be my it would be my mom.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yes, and this kind of ties me into my next question. I think you've kind of answered it, so but I'll still say it. So, how can a healthy relationship influence our sense of identity and self-worth? I know you said your mom was a big support for you, um, but could you elaborate on the question I've just asked?

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Right now, um, in a way, I'm I'm happy you asked that question because a relationship, a healthy relationship, should not necessarily be the trigger. I mean, of course, it can influence it or support it, but you the work begins within you. You can't really expect someone else to help you to feel confident and have self-worth because nobody could ever make you really feel that. Maybe okay, maybe they could by giving you lots of compliments and but you know, if you don't really believe it, you're not going to you're not going to be able to accept it or receive it. Do you know what I mean? So if I walked in and I don't like how I look in this dress, I said, Oh, you look so fantastic, and you're just saying, Really? Are you just saying that? And you're not going to feel fantastic after somebody sent up to you anyway, because you already don't like what you see. So I can't emphasize enough the importance of working on yourself and understanding that, hey, this body, this mind that I've been given, that I inhabit, is what has been presented to me and it's been perfectly made just for me. I am enough as I am. You know, when I go out there, people love me for who I am. You know, and those who don't see it, it means that our journey is not meant to be together. You know, it's as simple as that. There is someone, I mean, there are billions of people in this world, there are people in this world that like what they see in you, and you have to you have to affirm it, you have to see it, you have to believe it. It's not up to your partner to give that worth to you because you're you're not going to, as I said, you're not going to receive it if you don't feel that way yourself. You so you you have to be able to grow in confidence, as you were saying, you know, about you, you have two children, uh just as I do. And you know, it was it's important from when they're very young to say, hey, you know, you are a great person. You can do anything you want to do, no matter where you are, it doesn't matter what the situation is. You can bring your best self forward, you can make your you can improve upon your skills, you can get better, you know. So, but of course, of course, relationships are good to support that. I don't want to use the word validate that, because no one should really value to support it, you know, and maybe you can see it in the way people relate to you, I don't know. But I don't, I personally do not judge those things based on other people's reactions. You know, I judge it based on what I affirm to myself, what I believe of myself, and um I just believe we're all human beings, we're all the same. So You know, yeah, maybe people have certain certain different socioeconomic circumstances. But underneath it all, we're all the same. And if we if we just if we're just better in how we behave to each other, the world will be such a better, much better place. So I don't know if that answers the question.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yes. So um one of the things I've taken away from that in terms of um identity and self-worth, you know, uh for a healthy relationship is you need to affirm it to yourself. You need to see it and you need to believe it.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Absolutely. You just have to and just be grateful. Uh gratitude is so important in actually be beginning to believe in yourself by looking at yourself and saying, Oh, I'm so grateful that I'm able to just sit here and breathe. You know, I'm able to move. I remember years ago I had an accident and I had a whiplash injury, and I it it was quite a bad one that I was um in pain for almost a year. When I say pain, real pain, I remember the first time I was off from work for about six weeks, and the first time I tried to go to work, uh, I got onto the tube, and with every move of that journey, it was agony. Because it I had never realized, I've been onto the tube many times, you know, almost every day of my, you know, of my existence at that time, you know, but that just that moving of the trade, moving up and down like that, was affecting my neck so badly. And I was looking at people sitting there, just moving their heads and reading their newspapers and standing up, and thinking they don't know how lucky they are just to be able to do that. So that self-worth comes from gratitude. Oh, I'm so grateful that I can just move my head like that and stand up and walk. Wow, I'm so wonderfully made. You know, look at how my nails grow, and you know, I when I'm hungry, I can get something to eat. I know that isn't the experience for everybody, but there is always something to be grateful for, and that is what builds up your beginning to look at yourself as a wonderful person and begin to show up as a wonderful person in the world.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

No, you're absolutely right. So, what would you say the red flags are to watch out for when it comes to um relationship?

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Um red flags for me begin with us again. The red flags are what am I projecting onto this relationship? Right? So and red flags are okay, somebody maybe they don't call you when they're meant to call you, they don't um they they they're not people of their own their words. You can never really rely on what they said. So things like that, of course, uh the traditional red flags that we're talking about. Now understanding then why do they do that is another layer to that. Maybe they have ADHD and they're not able to organize themselves adequately, maybe they weren't raised properly, maybe they weren't this, maybe it could be any one thing. So that red flag then will depend on us. First and foremost, are you are you able to put up with that? Is the relationship one where I'm going to love this person what's and all? That's who they are, and maybe that might help me understand why they behave in that way. Um are they suffering from some sort of deep trauma? So all these things like red flags, and they're they're all they they're all nice as um one-liners and all that, but there's a lot, there are lots of layers to those things. So the red flag is it, I believe, is how we process that information ourselves. Does it sit properly with me? Is it something I can really deal with? Um, it will depend on the individual. You know, some of us come from, for example, from polygonus societies. I was what I was looking at something the other night. Um, and um I don't know who these people are. Um, I was on social media and I saw this very young man who was married, he got married, I don't know, recently, look like recently. And then he brought in another wife, and he's from a polygamous society, and I thought, oh, and these are young people. He looked to me like he's about 24, something, maybe, maybe he's older, but they all look very young. And then so I dug a little bit deeper and they said, Oh, he now has wife number three. And I thought, hmm, now for the first wife, what was the red flag for her? I think the point I'm trying to make is it depend, it depends on our own standards, how we how we go through life, and how we can handle certain things, but it's whatever makes you feel uncomfortable, and something that you know you're not going to be able to deal with eventually is what you should take as your red flag. But you should also understand why is it something I can't deal with and why is it a red flag? And I know I've now complicated it all so much, but those are that's very important so that you don't miss something that could have worked.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah, so how how um how can a person begin to rebuild trust after it's been broken in in a relationship?

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Yes, that's a very interesting question again because um so when you're talking about building trust, and I think I touched on it lightly earlier, so like if a friend hurts you, for example, and they've they've um betrayed you in one way or another, now to rebuild a relationship with that particular friend, there's what that's one thing, but to then have trust to go into another relationship is another thing, and with if it's with the same person, you're really going to have to try and understand it. Will have to be through some level of communication if you intend to rebuild that trust with that person, you have to understand you know what has happened. You know, you have some people, maybe they're kind of jealous of you, um, or you know, envious. Maybe they're just not nice people. So you you you're you're gonna have to get to the bottom of it. And I don't know if you can do that without some sort of counseling, without some sort of now. The book that I'm writing or that I've written, it's not been published yet, actually deals with how to deal with such a thing, very, very like a step-by-step guide of how I dealt with an issue where I felt trusted and being broken. It all came back down to me working on myself and just believing, and I believe, and I think I started this conversation about the laws of sowing and reaping. I believe that when you really work on yourself and you start to lead with love, love actually, and I know it sounds very high-level and maybe superficial, love actually cleans up, cleans out the pipes of connection with your relationships. You know, so if I start to work on myself, I'm saying those affirmations every day, I'm believing in myself, I'm leading with sending good thoughts to people and presenting myself in a certain way, being mindful of other people, how I how I show up in the world. What then tends to happen is that relationships that need to be repaired will be repaired somehow. And when you start to develop yourself on that level, issues of trust don't become a thing any longer. Or not a thing anyway. So someone who might have hurt you, you start to see them in a different light, you start to accept them for who they are, you start to, and this is not forced, this is from shared development of yourself. And as I said, it may sound a bit through through an airy-fairy, but it's actually something that I'm talking about from experience, not just once or twice, but many relationships that I've forged um and repaired using this sort of a method, you know. So um, so rebuilding trust, I mean, with a lot of things that we're doing, and I'll I'll use this as an example again. You know, if I put a seed in the ground to sow it, an apple seed, how do I make it grow by watering it and you know, hoping for good weather? But other than that, the actual intricate knitting of everything together is not going to come from me. What you do is you you do what you what you can do, and then you and in that situation of a trust broken, what you can do is you can really develop yourself if it's something that was really, you know, that was because people break trust every day, but if it's something that was really important, you know, go back into yourself and develop yourself and say, you know, I'm putting this out, I'm putting out a new seed, and I don't understand what happened. You know, I I just would like things to be better for myself. I've been hurt and I want to heal, you know, and if a conversation is to take place and you need that, then by all means do it. Maybe you might need a mediator to do it, but just go and not expect anything. With regards to trust, taking um a bad experience and then moving into a new relationship, again, you need that healing in order not to take you know what happened in the past and bring it into your present. So um, and again, it's still working on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Yeah. In your in your um experience, do you think it's a good idea, like when people are going into a relationship to talk about their last ones or not?

SPEAKER_00 55:01

I don't think there's a science to it. Um, and it's best not to, but if the if the opportunity arises, and I think with it you have to tread a bit carefully because, and I'll explain why. I think I don't think it's a good idea, but as I said before, people are all different, yeah. So I I don't like to sort of pronounce a one size fits all. Yes, but I'll tell you why I don't think it's a good idea. Because of how people process information. So you might say something like, Oh, this person I was with, you know, very lazy, very blah blah, but he was really he was so funny. And then this other person now who's receiving that information will now think, oh, what about me? Am I funny too? I mean, I'm just using something very basic as an example. Am I funny too, you know? Um, so maybe you don't think you and and so something you said very innocently might not go down very well. I personally believe that whatever you whatever happened in that relationship is done, leave it there. Now, if you and your spouse or your current partner are in a very good place, you're able to sit down and laugh at each other and all that, and then you want to bring in some story from the past. I don't really see anything wrong with that. Um, but talking about it, I think I remember somebody once saying, Oh, this person they dated, you know, if you went to their house, they had they had a pot for this, they had a pot for that, they had they were very organized and they were whatever. And um, I wasn't happy about it. I just thought, what is why are you talking about that? You know, so um, yeah, I think it's it's a better idea. Yes, I don't see the need for it really. Leave your past in your past and focus on the present. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

No, that's that's uh thank you for that. Um I was going to mention about your TED talk, but you've already spoken about that. But could you just give us a bit of um some highlights? I know you did one a few years ago uh in Africa. Yes, you recently went to the States this year and you did another one. Are they available on YouTube for people to watch already or not really? Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

So the one I did two years ago is definitely available. Um that one is definitely available, and I talked about um kind of it's the title of my book, which is how to restore your broken marriage and create your happily ever after. And uh the highlights of that was um it made me realize, of course, it was my first time as a speaker on a stage, but it made me realize that um, and I already knew it's a kind of it's a very universal topic, and people were really interested. And I I spoke really about how my marriage had broken down and how I had how it had become restored, and the steps that I took to help it to restore that relationship. So I thought it was a good message. Um, the second one is about social media and how it affects the views of mainly digit, what we call digital natives. And um, so that one isn't out. Um uh I got some good news that you know TEDx likes the talk and they were gonna promote it, um, but it it it takes a while. Thank you very much. Thank you. So um uh uh it takes a while. When it's an editor's pick, it it takes a while before it's released. Um so I don't know when it's um the organizer told me that it could take about five, six months, and I did it in May, so I don't know yet. So that's not available yet. But I mean, if if you put uh my name in Google, then the talk will come up, or just say TEDx or something, then it will come up. Um the old one will come up and eventually the new one will come up whenever it comes out. Yeah, so that I mean the highlights are that relationships are very important. I really enjoyed researching for the and very complex, it can also be very complex, can't it? Yes, but I think as I said, from my this this uh this it's like a vocation that found me, something that has found me, and I'm so interested in it that you know the first the first TEDx talk was really from experience of what happened to me. The second one was from my because that's a continuous research for me. And I have children who are now in their 20s, and we talk about relationships and then they say, Oh, this is happening. And so I started to research into what the digital natives, and digital natives are the younger generation who have been born and raised into in the digital age. You know, how do they, you know, who are their relationship coaches? You know, who do they get advice from? They get it from the internet, yeah, they get it from those viral sound bites, they get it from those influencers, those are the people that they turn to. And if you watch, I mean, I don't know if you watch this movie at Netflix, you might have heard of it called Adolescents. And it was oh, okay. I did, yes, yes. Yeah, there were everybody talking about it, Keires Glama was talking about it in parliament, right? And this is based on uh a particular trend called the incels, you know, online, where young men who follow this trend, or you know, where they're going on there and they're learning about, or they're they're they they they are usually they feel they're disenfranchised, um, and they don't maybe they feel they're not good enough to attract women and that women are not nice. I don't want to use a nasty word, you know, and women owe them a relationship and all this sort of stuff. So this this um trend is built on resentment towards women and it leads to violence, in fact, murder and murder. You know, there's some cases that we've heard recently where they say they were some in some sort of in-cel, they were following some sort of in-cel groups. So these are the this is the sort of information that is being put out there for youngsters, and the parents are completely unaware of it, and they're absorbing all this information, and they're they're showing up in public with those with that mindset and those beliefs, their belief systems are being cultivated online by these um uh harmful uh uh ideologies.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Amazing. And are you also writing a book on that, or is it just the TEDx?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

So, I mean, the book I've written at the moment is on restoring your broken marriage and creating your happily ever after. I've also written another I've just finished. It's a very short book on it's all about enhancing relationships. I think eventually I will write about it. Um, but I I I I think more importantly, right now, because I might write about it, but I don't think that the audience that it affects will necessarily read because I don't think they read as much. Yes, everything is online. So, really, I would like to be a thought leader, what somebody who contributes to the conversation, yes, and somebody who, yeah, someone who brings up the subject and brings it to the fore and then brings other younger people. I did a podcast last week for a young man who's about 23 or 24. Yeah, so to reach that demographic and be, I mean, as I said, I was listening to one lady recently, and the stuff she was coming out with, and you know, she's got like 600,000 likes on her posts. Even as I said, young older people, one lady saying, I'm in my 60s now, I'm in my 50s now. I wish I had known you when I was younger. And I thought this woman just said a whole load of nonsense. She just said a whole load of nonsense. And people are saying, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh wow, this is fantastic advice. And I'm thinking, she this is not it. This woman is not in a relationship. She's telling you that she hates men, that you've taken relationship advice from her. So, yeah, that balance needs to be shifted, and what we need are voices from professionals, from people with experience, from people who have researched, to be able to come out there to balance that, to become viral. One of the advice I gave, uh one of the pieces of advice I gave in my TEDx was for platforms to be able to begin to not necessarily curb these voices, but maybe present professionals with badges that say they're if they're experienced in this field. So when you're getting your information, you know who you're getting the information from. And so it becomes obvious that this is just somebody who has an opinion, and this is somebody who has researched and who uh uh is certified or who is experienced or who's you know, who has invested an inordinate amount of time into finding out the facts. Yes, right? So, and then also maybe what social media can do is that maybe they can get some of these professionals to partner with the influencers so that the information becomes more well-rounded, and even if the influencer stays in their own corner, at least it's been balanced out by a professional. Yes. So the information is um is is a bit, as I said, more well more rounded than just a one-sided thing. So I don't think a book necessarily is the best thing at the moment. The book will be for those who aren't necessarily affected by it because they're reading rather than listening to the viral sound bites. So I think what we need is we need to be able to get out there and be you know be viral as well, counterbalancing what is being put out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yes, um I'm looking forward to you going viral and sharing the clips.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Thank you. And I hope it wouldn't be just for the sake of being viral, but for the sake of but for the sake of the right information. Me and you know, be it my children, my nieces or nephew, nephews, and they like to have these conversations. And I have quite a few young people around me, you know. And they when they say, Oh, Auntie, what do you think about this? You know, and sometimes I'm also saying, tell your friend to call me and you know, tell them to call me so that we can discuss this, you know, because it's so big sometimes before they even finish, I guess maybe because of my aging experience as well, apart from the fact that I've written or writing about, you know, this is a new area, well, a new career for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Um, I'm so passionate about it. And so what when they're talking, I can already tell that oh, this person is coming from a place where because because they they have a low self-esteem, that's why they're talking to their girlfriend in that way, or they're talking to their boyfriend in that way, and all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

So I will be I'll be getting my sons to come and speak to you at some point. Please tell them I'm waiting. Um, I just wanted to go back. Um, your first book, you said um something about um happily is it happily ever after?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Create your happily ever after.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Yes. So what is happily ever after? Can you just give us some hints?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

Yes, so if you notice, I didn't say create a happily is create your happily ever after. Your happy, yes. Your heavily happily ever after depends on you, right? So, but I'll I'll tell you what you need to do to create your happily ever after. Um, first and foremost, you have to have a goal in your relationship. Because, as I said, in those fairy tales we read, or the rom rom coms, the sort of walt waltz up into the sunset to live their happily ever after, right? And um, there's an author, she's an author, and she's a 10x speaker as well. Her name is Fawn Weaver, and she said these words that said those words are happily ever after is a choice, right? It's not a fairy tale, so you can choose your happily ever after, you just have to set the goals to it's like saying I want to become a doctor. You're not going to become a doctor just by going and you know wiping patients and holding a plaster and everything. You have to learn how to become a doctor first. So, that happily ever after, you have to learn how to create it. So you set the goals. You and your staff need to sit down and understand what does happily ever after mean to you. In fact, that information should have been before you got married when you went for relationship coaching. I believe everybody should have relationship coaching before they get married, you know. And in fact, it should start earlier. But let's say we're here now if we're going to get married or we're in a serious relationship, let's go and get some coaching. So you need to understand what are your goals. You know, people get into marriages, they don't even know what their spouse's goals are. What do they see as happily ever after? Because your happily ever after might be different from mine. So you need to define it. What does that mean? What does that look like to you? What would you like to happen? And once you have set a goal, then you can work towards it. You put that in the planner, actually. It has to be something physical because you know you remember, remember you're investing all your time and your money and your your life into this, and you want to make it work, you want to reach this um nirvana of happily ever after. So, what is what does it look like? How can we get there? You put it in your planner, and you take it in bite, you know, bite sizes, or if you big chunks if you're though that sort of couple.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

You're frozen towards it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

But we all know what oh you see me?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

Yeah, I can see you. Yeah, you just froze for a bit there. Okay, right. So, what what was the last thing you heard? Um, create your um happily ever um your happily ever after, I think. That was the last thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

Yeah, okay, so happily ever after could mean anything, as I said, for anybody. Yeah, you know, you will understand what it means for you. So that's why in the book it's saying creating your happily ever after. But I provide the tools that you need to be able to get there, whatever it be, whatever it looks like, those tools will be so part of it will be the setting those goals, part of it will be communicating and how to communicate effectively. Um, part of it would be um understanding um what your needs are in that relationship and building yourself to become friends and be to be lovers and to love each other and to like each other because if you, as I said, if you sow that seed, you still have to water it, you still have to nurture it and all that. You don't even necessarily know how it's gonna grow, but you have to be able to create for time to be present for your partner. So all those things would lead to you creating conversators, and you'll see it all there.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

Yeah, no, fantastic. So as we're coming towards the end of our chat, um, what are your top three non-negotiables as as a person?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

My top three non-negotiables as a person are that um I must always start, so I must always start my day with gratitude. So I know it's kind of a little bit different from what you're asking me, but I believe that once I start my day with gratitude, it it actually usually centers me. Um so once that centers me, it means that when I see people, what I'm what I'm getting back from them, I'm I'm processing it differently. I don't know, I don't know, maybe I'm being a bit too high level here. So non-negotiables as a human being is that I come forward with gratitude every day. When I meet people um who are not leading with love, who are who are trying to to um who are projecting something that I don't want onto me, that I don't I don't allow myself to absorb what they're fed in my way and jump onto their bandwagon with them. So whatever they're going through, don't jump onto the bandwagon with them. And so those non-negotiables don't always depend for me, don't depend on someone else, it's always with me. I think the most important relationship is yourself, not so. I mean, uh a third thing would be um to watch what I say and watch what what watch what I put out there because it will come back. So gratitude, watching, making sure that I don't take on other people's issues. When I say take take on other people's issues, you know, like like their anger or something, you know, someone says something and then you're angry too now, and then you're now putting up an you're now throwing a new type of energy into the world, which you're gonna reap later on. So um, so those are my three negotiables, three non-negotiables as a you as a person. Um, I'm not saying I do it all the time, but if I'm talking about it, yes, that is um, because I do get angry, and I, you know, I'm not saying I'm a this perfect person and all that, and you know, someone says something, I'm like ready to answer you back and tell you what I think. But if I'm saying oh, this is something that I should be doing, and I know that for me to have a good experience in my journey and this you're frozen.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

I can't hear you now.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Gratitude has to be there, Davy. So watch how I present myself as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

That's amazing, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

And finally, I might ask what are your non-negotiables, for example. Oh, you don't have any.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

Um I think um for me, I think gratitude is so important because I've had so many challenges, and um, so gratitude is so important that I'm here. Um, kindness as well. I think for me, that's that's um yeah, I think kindness is very important, and yeah, um I mean I don't even know whether it's non-negotiable, but my family, you know, my husband and my children and my brothers and sisters, those are really things that I'm very important.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Family is important to you, yeah, definitely. So you weren't expecting the reason the reason I'll tell you why I asked the question, because you see, sometimes you know, when a question is asked, um you answer it based on how you understand it. Yes, right? So a non-negotiable could be anything if you know what I'm saying. It's so the reason I asked you was just to see if we were on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

Thank you for asking me that. Yes, so those are my non-negotiable, yes. Um, if people wanted to get in contact with you or they wanted to find out more about your work, how where can they find you? I mean, I will post your details and um everything else, but yeah, if you could just let them know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

Yes, yes, yeah, thank you, thank you for that. So, yeah, so um I have um uh my Instagram, which is um, so I operate under the the name My Marriage Handbook because I want to start to produce um media for as I said before, we don't have that guide, those guidelines on how to make our relationships work. So I want to produce a series of things like a I'm so sorry to help people now in handbook. If you have a website also called my marriage, oh sorry, yes, so I have uh the TikTok is my my marriage handbook, Instagram My Marriage Handbook, a website, my marriagehandbook.com, and um also if you put in my name, Fumi or Conwise, into Google Google, you'll see my TEDx talks, a talk, at least, and the other one when it comes out, and any other uh information. So you can always DM me on Instagram or uh TikTok, um, and um I will definitely get back to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:25

Uh thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me. Um it's a pleasure to see your face. No, yes, thank you. It's a pleasure, it's a pleasure to contribute to the conversation on relationships. Um yeah, relationships make the world go round, so it's important that we do them correctly.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Absolutely, absolutely. And I hope for anyone listening, I hope you found this very useful. Um, apologies about the um internet's uh connection and interruption, but hopefully should you should still be able to get value out of this conversation. I hope so. I'm just going to stop recording. I'm still here.