Canoeing The Mississippi Was The Easy Part

A 2,200-mile canoe trip sounds like the wild part, until you hear what Dave Conway walked away from to get on the water. After nearly 40 years in the same role at the same church, Dave hits the midlife moment a lot of people quietly fear: the life you built no longer fits, and staying comfortable starts to feel like losing yourself. What follows is not a tidy “reinvention story” but a real one, full of faith, doubt, and the kind of courage that shows up before you have a plan.

We talk through what it actually takes to canoe the full length of the Mississippi River from Lake Itasca to the Gulf of Mexico: dragging through shallow headwaters, portaging around dams, calling in to locks, sharing water with barges, and paddling nine to twelve hours a day. Dave also names the gritty realities that don’t make highlight reels, like brutal wind, mosquitoes, and the unnerving chaos of jumping Asian carp. Along the way, he notices the human side of America too, from “Minnesota nice” distance to the warmth of Southern hospitality.

But the heart of the conversation is a spiritual and emotional turning point. A book, a story about a sunk canoe, and one clear inner message reshape how Dave sees his work, his calling, and what it means to “let go.” We also dig into his Pacific Crest Trail experience, motorcycles, racing, and why adventure can become a vehicle for clarity in the second half of life. If you’re searching for midlife adventure, career change at 60, faith and uncertainty, or the courage to start over, this one will stay with you.

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Guest Information
Dave Conway lives in Modesto, California with his wife, Tanya, and they have two grown sons. He spent nearly 40 years working at a local church before stepping into a new season of life.

At heart, Dave is an adventurer, with experiences that include canoeing the Mississippi River, riding a motorcycle to the Arctic Ocean, hiking the Pacific Crest Trail, and racing cars. When he’s not on the road or trail, he’s often building something in his shop or serving at his church.

If you ask Dave what’s next, he’ll tell you: “Who knows, but I’m sure something interesting is about to come up.

Resources and Links
Instagram: Dave Conway
Instagram: Dead Horse Riders
YouTube: Go Waldo Go - Pacific Crest Trail
Book Mentioned: The Last Arrow

Music used in this episode:
All music in this episode is licensed for use through Epidemic Sound.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Real Story

Fletch 0:02

Welcome to the Mango Times Podcast. Hey, welcome back to the Mango Times. This is your host Fletch. And if this is your first time to this podcast, let me say welcome. We love to talk about midlife adventure here. And this show particularly is about midlife. It's about curiosity and the kind of adventures that don't always make sense until you're already in them. And today's episode, quite frankly, this one surprised even me. Because I thought I was sitting down to talk to a guy who had canoed the entire Mississippi River, which, by the way, is already insane. But that's not actually what this story is about. This is about what happens when you get to the second half of life and you realize that the life you built doesn't quite fit anymore. Dave Conway spent nearly 40 years in the same job, in the same place, doing great work. And then he walked away. No plan, no next step, just walked away. And somehow the Mississippi River became part of that story. So we're gonna talk about the river, we're gonna talk about motorcycles, race cars, and hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. But really, we're gonna talk about that moment when you know something has to change and what it takes to actually do it. Here's my conversation with Dave Conway.

Meet Dave Conway

Fletch 1:48

Hey, I want to welcome Dave Conway into the studio. Dave, for people meeting you for the first time, how would you describe yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Wow. So I've been married for 37, almost 38 years to Tanya, my lovely wife, who is has been my biggest supporter and fan my whole life.

Fletch 2:07

Wait, well, good job putting that out there first.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yes, I'm sorry.

Fletch 2:11

And so if you bumped into somebody in a coffee shop and they asked, What do you do? What would you say these days?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, these days I would have to say, I'm sorry, do you mean for a living or do you mean for real life? To me, they're kind of two different things. And so somehow at age 61, all of a sudden I realized I had this unintended um adventure resume that I never thought I would really, it was never really something I started out to do. I love that. But it seems to be a big part of me, and people like to hear about it, I guess.

Fletch 2:44

But so what's your home base?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Well, my home base is here in Modesto, right?

Fletch 2:49

So here at the Mango Times, we love to talk about adventure, and that works out for my listeners in a variety of ways. It could be a career adventure, it could be a calling, it could be a midlife shift, it could just be boots on the ground somewhere out in the world. So that being said, your adventure resume, as you just said, seems to hit all of my high points, and I knew you needed to be a guest on this show.

Leaving A 40-Year Church Job

Fletch 3:15

So when you wrote to me, you said I left a job of 40 years with no idea what was next. What was that job and what did you walk away from?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I had worked at a large church in Modesto. I was the facilities manager. I had worked there just a few months short of 40 years. Probably the last 33, 34 years, I was the manager of it. And so it just became a place that wasn't for me and that I didn't really fit. So for me to move on to something that seemed to fit required me to give up that job. You had to work. If you work there, you had to go there. Because I really loved my job. I loved my job, what what I did, and why I did it. Okay.

Fletch 3:56

So so that decision to leave the job was because you were needing to leave that church. And if you wanted to work at that church, you had to go to that church. That's that's correct. That's 100% correct. So you have you had to make a decision. That was a decision out of faith.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

It was a big one. And so, Fletch, I would tell you, I've been listening kind of to some of your old you know podcasts trying to catch up, and not all of them are about faith necessarily, but I have to tell you, your and your listeners, that faith is a really big part of this journey. Okay. And so as I talk about this shift in careers and life, faith is gonna be a part of that.

Fletch 4:36

So did you know what you were stepping toward?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yes, yes, I think so, because I I just knew that I needed to get to a spot that I could be used at and it better fit me, and I couldn't do it there. And so I kind of it sounds really funny, but I ran away from that church in a way so that I could run towards God. I got that sounds really dumb, but I just got to where I knew if I was gonna do what God would have me do and kind of be what I I'm supposed to be, I couldn't do it there.

Fletch 5:09

So somehow that leads to canoeing the Mississippi, or maybe the other way around.

Why Paddle The Mississippi

Fletch 5:16

So, as a guy who loves adventure, I follow a lot of great stories online. There's a guy named Ed Pratt in the UK who does source to sea trips in a kayak. I saw him do one in Scotland, and I followed every day along. Where did this idea of canoeing the Mississippi come from?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

So a lot of people that hike or they motorcycle or do they do different things like that, they tend to be just that thing is what's important to them. I've hiked with hikers that that's they're all about just hiking. For me, it's always been different adventures for different reasons and different things. I love the idea of not just being a hiker, but I want to try all the different mediums I can. And I had heard somebody talk about canoeing Mississippi years ago, and it just kind of stuck in my brain as something that just seemed really cool and different. I didn't realize how elite it was, for lack of a better word. There's there's between four, four to six hundred people a year that summit Everest, by the way.

Fletch 6:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

And there's four or five, six thousand that do Pacific Crest Trail, and I think even more that do the Appalachian. But I discovered that only about fifty to sixty people attempt to paddle the entire Mississippi River, and about twenty-five or so are able to finish it. So it kind of became a real small number. And I didn't know that going into it. Uh in fact, I'd add ask, they have these things called river angels. They're kind of like hiking trail trail angels, yeah. Pretty similar, that will help you out on the river. And I had asked that question, how many people do this? And that was what they told me. Wow.

Fletch 6:58

So going by their So when you first said it out loud, did people think you were crazy?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

No, at this point, a lot of my friends were kind of like, yeah, that kind of figures, you know, because I'd already done so many other things that they were kind of like, oh, okay, yeah. And even when I told my wife, she was like, okay, let's talk about this a little bit, let's figure it out. And so we kind of together started looking at what would it take to do this? And the why is probably a harder thing. To me, I it's more a why not. Why would you not want to canoe the Mississippi River, in my opinion? It's just cool as heck.

Fletch 7:34

You know, you're you're speaking my language. Of course I'm doing this, but we have listeners that are going, oh, let me tell you why not. Yeah, I know, I know. Fletch and Dave. Let me have my list. So I'm gonna ask you, we're gonna get around all the all the questions about this, but what was the starting point?

Where The River Really Starts

Fletch 7:48

Was it a bubbling puddle? Was it just a little thing coming out of the ground?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

The start of the Mississippi is super interesting. It's at Lake Atasca, Minnesota, and you actually pull up to where the river starts, and there's a rock, kind of a bunch of rocks you got to pull your canoe over, and then it literally is maybe six inches deep. Okay. And for the first two miles, you end up walking more of the river than you do paddling it because the weight of the canoe drags the bottom. And for the first week, my oldest son Adam was with me, and so we're walking along, dragging the canoe because it's not deep enough to paddle. And the first, I don't know, the first the first 40 miles is brutal because you're going through these uh reeds, fills of reeds, and you're they call it the bog, and you're you're having to drag your canoe over dead fallen trees, and a storm had just gone through when we were there, and there were fallen trees everywhere. And it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work trying to get through that first 40 miles.

Nine To Twelve Hours A Day

Fletch 8:50

So, what does one day of a trip look like? Just pick an average day canoeing the Mississippi. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Well, it's three different rivers, so it really does depend on where you're at on the river. The first part is the portage section, and you're going through Minnesota and there's down trees the first 40 miles, and then you have all these locks. I mean, I'm sorry, all these dams you have to go around. So you have to pull your canoe out, you have to portage around them, and they're anywhere from there's I think there's 13 of them.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

And there's they're anywhere from a hundred yards to a mile and a half, where you've got a, you know, I had a dolly I built for the for the canoe that I would drag it out of the water, unload it, drag it out of the water, put it on the dolly, load it back up, try to get it balanced, drag it along. And sometimes you had to drag it up like the side of a dam. I mean, it was, you know, so it was a lot of work.

Fletch 9:41

And then what about like on the main part?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So you get to that part, and then once you get to Minneapolis, you get called what's the lock and dam section. And so the locks are big water elevators. That's how they control the rivers with these locks, and they lower barges and boats down to the next level. So you go through these lock and dams, and it's pretty cool. You, you know, at first you pull up and my marine radio and say, Hey, this is southbound canoe, 15 minutes away. And they might say, Come on in, we'll start cycling the water, or we'll see you when you get here. And then they lower you down and you keep going. And you're at this point, you're sharing the river with barges.

Fletch 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

And those barges are 195 feet for each barge. And I saw some that were up to eight barges long, so that's 1,500 feet, and you got to go around them. And then the last part is uh just the wide open river once you get past St. Louis, place called a chain of rocks, and then the river's flowing and it gets wide, and the barges get even bigger, and it's just a whole different river. So most days I would paddle nine to twelve hours a day. So I would leave about the same time, about 7, 7:30. I'd be on the river and I'd paddle for nine to twelve hours a day. I'd stop at the top of the hour and take a five-minute water break. Water food, look at my maps, and I mostly I would stop for lunch about 30 minutes, but other than that, I'd paddle for nine to twelve hours a day, solid. And evenings, what did that look like? I usually like to stop somewhere, you know, in the five to six thirty, seven range. It was getting dark about 7.30 at that point, and it takes time to set up camp and to cook your food. And I was doing Instagram, so I would have to, you know, I would do all my Instagram for that day. And I tell you, anytime you're on these adventures, whether you're hiking or this kind of adventure, there's a just a deep, satisfying sleep that you have at night because you work so hard. And I kind of miss that, and I enjoyed that so much. Curling up in my tent and just knowing that you put in a hard day's labor. In the beginning, it would be 20 miles, and then it was 30 miles, and at the end, I was doing 50 to 55 miles a day.

Fletch 11:55

What was harder than you expected on this trip?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Well, it was every bit as hard as I expected. So I don't know that anything surprised me. I think the thing that I hated the most was the stupid jumping Asian carp fishes. They have these fish called the Asian carp that jump, and you see videos of them jumping out of the water when they hear noise, and they're pretty good size. And if they hit you, it hurts. So luckily I didn't get hit, but the side of my boat got hit once, and I mean it it was a thud. Those things would scare me every time. I hated it. The mosquitoes were brutal. I mean, just big and brutal. I think the worst part of the whole thing would be the wind. Okay. It was always a northbound wind, and I was going south, and some days that wind would wear you out, and I mean it was just oh, I hated the wind. So that was probably

People Change As You Go South

SPEAKER_00 12:48

the worst.

Fletch 12:48

So you went from northern, the northern U.S. to the Gulf of Mexico. I did. Did the people that you met change along the way?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Absolutely. So in Minnesota, they had this term called Minnesota Gnice. Have you ever heard of that? I haven't. Go ahead and tell us. So it's just interesting because they're very polite, but they're not really necessarily hospitable, which I found interesting. And it's actually a term they use, Minnesota Gnice. And so, like, I stayed on a few River Angels like lawns that were along the Mississippi. And like one of the guys, I had camped on his lawn, and he never said, Hey man, do you need anything? Or do you like, do you need you need to use the restroom? So I camped on this guy's lawn. I really needed to use the restroom. And he never like invited me in. He was like just a minimum. And that was kind of normal. They were very polite, but not hospital. They're very kind, just don't put us out. Yeah, I know it's true. And so the further south you got, the more that southern hospitality thing was just rocking. I mean, it was awesome. And so the further south, the more I liked it, and the more the people just endeared endeared themselves to me.

Fletch 14:00

All right, so moment of truth. Moment of truth. Ever a moment when you thought of quitting?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

On this trip, not one. I was bound and determined. There's no way I was gonna let this thing beat me. And that was because I had hiked the Pacific Crest Trail and I didn't finish. And so for me, it was a bit of redemption. And I was like, there's just no way I'm going home. So no, I never considered this time ever stopping or giving up.

The Gulf Finish And Redemption

Fletch 14:27

So what did it feel like paddling into the Gulf of Mexico or whatever that point was?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I will never be able to explain to anybody what that felt like. I was at 70 days, and when you get down towards the end, I knew where the ocean was because I could see it on the my map on my phone, but you couldn't see the ocean. And there was this there was this channel called Hog Bayou, you'd go down, and I knew what it looked like, and I knew the ocean was over there, but I couldn't see it, I couldn't hear it, and I couldn't smell it. And then all of a sudden I turned this little corner, and there it was. Just big expanse of open water. And I I almost just didn't even know what to think and say. It was so incredible to see it and to know I'd been working for that for 70 days. It felt so good.

Fletch 15:20

Did you want to turn around and paddle back? Heck no.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

No. In fact, when you come out into the Gulf of Mexico, there's a place called Burns Point where most of the canoeers go to these days are kayakers, and you got to cross about two and a half miles of open ocean. So I'm in the ocean, I'm in the Gulf of Mexico in a canoe. Not largely offshore, but not like right up against it either. And so there's this feeling of what am I doing in the ocean in a canoe? And about the time I got there, the wind picked up. And I'm like, I had two and a half miles to go against wind again. I thought I'm gonna be out of the wind. Nope. The last two and a half miles, here it is again.

Faith Crisis And The Last Arrow

Fletch 15:59

So you mentioned this in your note to me, and you said this trip changed the way you saw your life and what God was doing in it.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

It did.

Fletch 16:08

What did you discover out there, Dave?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So here we go. I had been at this church working for 40 years, and the last six or seven years just became super hard. It was a place that I I didn't fit very well anymore. And I had been wrestling with God for probably about three or four years, saying, Is it time for me to move on? And the answer I always got from God was, you're not free to leave. And for several years I'd have that conversation with God. Is it time for me to go? And I would get not free to leave. The last time I had that conversation with God, it seemed like it changed, and it seemed like it was not yet. And I thought, well, that's interesting. It feels different. So I actually went to my boss thinking he was not going to let me have time off to do this. It takes about 90 days, is what people say. And to my surprise, they said, Yeah, we'll give you the leave of absence to do it. And I remember texting my wife, texting Tanya, and said, They gave me the leave, they gave me the time off. I'm not sure how to feel about it. Because I really thought I was gonna go in and say, hey, I'm gonna canoe Mississippi River, kind of get the time off. And they were gonna say no. And I was gonna say, something I have to do. So here's my you know, three or four week notice. I like the idea of running towards something, not away from something. And I really thought that was gonna be my out. So now I got the time off. And so I'm like, okay, so I started the Mississippi not really thinking I was gonna be leaving my job at the end of it. And so that's kind of how I started. So during the Mississippi River, both of my boys joined me for a week at a time, and my youngest son Paul said, Hey uh dad, there's this book you might want to listen to. I think it'd be great for you. It's called The Last Arrow. So I started listening to this book on audio, and the premise of the book is in 2 Kings 13. There's this little obscure story. And the story is with uh uh the King Jehoash calls Elisha. Elisha's dying, and King Jehoash wants his blessing, basically. He wants his military blessing, is what he wants. And so Elisha says to the king, Go get your go get a bow and arrow, and he does, and he says, Open eastward window and draw the bow, and then he Elisha puts his hand on him and says, Now shoot this arrow out the window. And he does, the king does, and he said, This is your victory over this particular battle they were fighting. And then he says, Take the arrows and strike the ground, and the king strikes the ground three times and then stops. And Elisha gets mad and says, Why did you stop? Why at three? Why not five or six? And then that's it. That's the whole story. And so I'm like, Well, what's that mean? Well, the writer of the book said, Are there times perhaps that we give up and that we don't ask God for more? We only ask Him for the minimum. And the arrows represented things God would have us do. And the whole premise of the book was save nothing for the end, save nothing for the next life, use them all up. An arrow is only good if you shoot it. It's of no value outside of that. And so the question I asked myself that day on the Mississippi was, God am I doing everything you would have me do? And the answer came back no. But what was interesting is it wasn't so much that I felt like I was being disobedient or that I didn't want to. It was that I was I was in this spot where I couldn't really use me. I couldn't use my experiences and my gifts and my desires. I just didn't I couldn't do them in that in that particular thing. And so I remember talking to Tanya that night on the river. I'm in my tent hiding from mosquitoes, and I'm telling her this story, and she's so gentle, but I'm gonna paraphrase it. She said, Well, I guess you have a little bit of time to figure it out. I was probably about mile 550 at that point, and the Mississippi to canoe at where I came out at is 2200 miles. And I said, I guess you're right. So I kept paddling. I kept paddling, and I got down to chapter eight of this book, and it basically said the chapter was called Find Your People. You've got to be with your tribe. And it said, if you're a zebra, find your tribe of zebras and run with them. If you're a gazelle, find the gazelles that run at your pace. And if you're a lion, find those who roar as loud as you do. Find those you're connected with at the heart, who you can stand for, and those who will stand with you. And I remember calling talking to Tanya that night also and saying, What do I do with this? I'm at a place where they're definitely not standing for me. And we're not connected at the heart. So what am I supposed to do with this? It's a real point of faith crisis. It was. So that was a mile 550, 600 right in there. And I just kept paddling. And I put that book aside and listened to a few others. Listened to Mark Twain, by the way, which I thought was super cool. Yeah. Because I stopped in Hannibal, Missouri, where you know Clemens is from and got a picture of Painting and a white fence. So that was kind of cool. I've been paddling for a month and a half or whatever, and I got down to this certain point, and there's a big section between um Memphis, Tennessee, and Vicksburg, Mississippi. That is like the biggest section with nothing on it. I mean, the floods out there, so no towns are near the river. And I've been by myself for a while, you know, and I was coming into Vicksburg and I was meeting up with my buddy Chris Ownath, who was gonna get in the canoe for four or four days with we all we Chris has been. A regular guest on Romano Time. He probably won't tell you though that I about broke him, I think. Poor Chris. Rural Louisiana is so humid and the bugs are so big. Poor Chris. Anyway, so I knew I was meeting Chris. I had a solar battery array that I would run my equipment off of, but I had to be careful that I didn't deplete the battery. So I couldn't always listen to something. Plus, I like the silence. I like the water. I like to hear. You know, I don't want to always have something in my ear. But that day I said, I'm going to burn this battery down because I'm going to be in a hotel tonight with Chris. And I listened to that most of that book again. And I got to that part on chapter eight again where it said find your tribe. And I said, God, it seems like there's something I'm supposed to do with this. And God gave me the absolute clearest picture I maybe have ever had. But I got to tell you a story before it makes sense. You okay with that?

Fletch 22:58

I'll tell you what, let's take a break right now. Because this is a cliffhanger for our listeners. And we come back, I want to hear the story. Okay.

Listener Messages And Reviews

Fletch 23:05

Hey, real quick, before we jump back into that episode, you know, on every episode I ask you to send a message or to leave a review. And a few of you actually did. And I want to be intentional about including those every time. So first, James Estes, who you've heard before as a guest on multiple episodes of the Mango Times, he reached out after listening to number 56 with Craig Cedarquist, that's the web designer who became a pipe carver. James said, I really enjoyed that pipe show with Craig. And then Erica Conway, my favorite world-traveling badass hiker. After listening to episode 57 with Kevin Delaney, she sent a message that just said, Fletch kicked it out of the park again. Which I'll take that message. Every day, all day. And then I got a couple of Apple Podcast reviews. This one's titled Thought Provoking and Fun Podcast from 2890. They wrote, The Mango Times Podcast is one of my favorites. Andy is a thoughtful and very funny interviewer who creates meaningful, engaging conversations. And then this one called When to Listen from Stahl's Lost A Beat. From a it said this From my years of listening to the Mango Times podcast, one thing I've learned is that there's more than certainly a time to listen. I commonly find myself on the road while Mr. Mango goes on. From the trips north to Montana to an everyday errand, always a great reminder to be intentional about the journey. Man, that's exactly what I hope this show is. So, like James and Erica, if you want to reach out, just scroll down in the show notes and click send fletch a text. That message comes straight to me. Or if it's easier, head over to the website and you can send me a message there or subscribe to the Mango Times. And as always, if you want to head to Apple Podcasts and leave a review, it helps more than you know. It motivates me to keep going, and I love hearing what it is about the show that you like. Alright, let's get back to our interview with Dave.

The River Angel And Letting Go

Fletch 25:14

Alright, we're back talking to Dave Conway about adventure. He was in the middle of telling us a story of coming down the Mississippi River where he really hit a crisis in his faith. And so, Dave, why don't you pick up with the story you're gonna tell us?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

So the story that I have to tell for the next part to make sense to what the picture God gave me was this. I pulled into, I think it was La Crosse, Wisconsin, it was Wisconsin, and I needed to resupply. And there's the things I've mentioned are these uh river angels that will help you. And I put out a call to the river angels and said, I need somebody to help me resupply in lacrosse. And one of the guys that came forward was named Judd, Judd Steinbeck was his name, and he said, Yeah, I'll meet you. We made a plan. I met him at this boat ramp, and we he put me in a pickup truck. He was a landscaper, by the way. He had a big landscaping company who took three hours out of his day to help me, to take me across town to Walmart. And it was super hot. I said, Hey, hey Judd, can we can I buy you lunch, someplace air conditioned? So, so yeah, and so we're we get in the truck and we're driving, and I just start talking and I said, Hey Judd, have you ever canoed you great that you're an angel? Have you ever canoed the Mississippi? He said, Yeah, I did the whole thing last year. And he said, In 21, I attempted to do it and we I didn't make it. And then he said something all of a sudden, I realized who he was, and I said, Wait a minute, Judd, you're the guy. And he looked at me and I said, You're the speed record guy. And he kind of sheepishly said, Well, I'm just one of the guys. So this was 24 when I did this. In 23, four guys beat the record for the fastest paddle, fastest paddle down the Mississippi River. So I need to tell you that I did the Mississippi River in 70 days. The normal, they say, is 90, 90, about 90 days. I did it in 70. And another guy, the next closest to me was 80 days, and all the rest were 90 to 120 days. I only tell you this for scale. Judge was on the team that beat the record. Do you want to know what? Do you want to take a guess on what the record is to canoe the Mississippi? I was gonna guess 50. Okay, you ready for this? Yep. 16 days, 16 hours, and I forgot how many minutes. Wow. They they canoed 24-7, and they it was like a they trained like it was like a military thing. It was incredible. And but the story he told me was this. He said, Yeah, we attempted, and it was like a sidebar story for him. He said, Yeah, we tried it in in 21, and he said, Yeah, we got pretty far down there, and we ran into a tropical depression, and it was 30 mile an hour sustained winds with rain, and we sunk the canoe. And then he told me the story that they had a safety boat with them, and the safety bolt was pulling the guys out of the out of the water into the boat, and they're trying to pull their gear, and a teen captain named Scott was holding on to the canoe that was underwater, and he wouldn't let go. And somebody looked over the edge and said, Scott, you have to let it go. And he let go of the canoe and it sunk. It was gone. It's probably a $10,000 carb carbon fiber canoe, by the way, and it was gone. Never to be retrieved, and the record was done that they couldn't do it. And the picture that God gave me that day on the canoe on the river when I said, Lord, what am I supposed to do with this? was David, it's time to let go. It's time to let go of this. So then it became, okay, God, what does this mean and how do I do it? And I came back home and told my wife, and she was like, Yep, seems like God's been kind of been tying knots and getting us ready for this. So the other thing I didn't say is my wife also worked at the church. Oh. So for us, it both meant new jobs. New jobs. And a new church to go to, and a new future, and a new identity, and really giving up. It did. And letting go, like it was.

Fletch 29:21

So if you've been around the Mango Times, we've we've had these discussions multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So it was six weeks. I came back six weeks knowing I was going to give notice. And there were some things I felt like I needed to wrap up that nobody was ever going to know but me, but just I felt like I need to make this right before I leave, some mechanical things to do with the buildings. And then I gave a three-week notice and I left with no job.

Fletch 29:45

Another giant leap.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

It was a huge leap.

Fletch 29:47

Yeah. You know, when I invited you to be on the podcast, I had no idea about this part of the story. Partially because I have followed your stories. I've I've seen some of your other adventures, and I specifically listened to another podcast that you were on about this one, but they never got to the story. You guys never got to the story. So I'm glad that we're on here and we're getting the opportunity to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I don't know that I felt like that was right for that podcast at the time. Okay. It was still pretty early in.

Seven Months Unemployed After Faith Step

Fletch 30:17

Well, you know, the mango times, you're free to say whatever you want, at deep as you want, yes, and really work it out.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So what I thought was I was going to leave this place and God was just going to provide another job. And so I was unemployed for seven months. I had not been unemployed in 42 years. And some of the things I thought were going to happen did not happen. Uh, you know, a lot of times they say, you know, it's never as bad as you think. It was every bit as bad as I thought it could be. It was so hard. I would say, in fact, this chapter really isn't finished. You know, a lot a lot of guys you've had on your podcast, it's kind of the chapter's finished in a way, and they've moved on to these things. Um, I've moved on. I've got another job and I'm I'm in another church where I just super fit and love, so love going there. But I would say the story, this particular chapter is not completely done. So part of me is like, man, do you really want me on here? I don't know that I can tell you the whole end of it.

Fletch 31:12

Well, I but that's why there's that's why there's part twos. Well, for our listeners that are standing on the verge of this type of adventure, that's super affirming, super exciting. And and you're right, you're not done, and I'm looking forward to seeing and so are you. What's next?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

So here's what I think. I think God, I think God honors big bold steps of faith. And I think sometimes the best way to to see something new and get to a place you've never been is get a bit get a little bit lost. But I think if you never put yourself in a position to get lost, you'll never find that. If you only hang out in your neighborhood where you know everything is, then you might miss something really great down the road that you didn't know was coming.

Fletch 31:56

Yeah. And there's there's another thing here, Dave, about people really growing at a time of crisis. Yeah. That they don't grow when they're healthy. They stretch. When they're being stretched, is when they really grow. So whether it's a faith crisis or hey, I lost my job, I had no idea this is where I was heading because I had been so comfortable. And to be uncomfortable suddenly gets it. So I even when we talk about stories of adventure on here, people say, Where are you going? I don't know. This summer it's a motorcycle trip, and I said I'm driving to the coast. And when I get there, I'll decide right or left. All right. So the Mississippi River was not your first

Pacific Crest Trail And Obedience

Fletch 32:32

major quest. This isn't your first adventure. You've raced cars, you've ridden motorcycles long distance, you've hiked a portion of the Pacific Crest Trail. Where did this adventure spirit come from in you?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I don't know that I ever had a point where I said, boy, I want to do this. I just know that most of my life I've done things like that that has interested me. And so, you know, when I was a kid, I would take off on my BMX bike and I would be gone for till the night when I had to get home with just I wonder what's out there. And so I I think that has always been a part of me. Just wanting to do fun, exciting things. And so I don't know. I don't know that it was a purposeful shift to it. It's just I want to do it, it looks great.

Fletch 33:20

I can relate. I've always, yep, always just wanted, I've just always been curious. Yeah. That's what it is. What made you decide specifically to we'll start with the Pacific Crest Trail? What made you decide to do that one?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

So my family always said, especially the boys, what's dad gonna do when he has a midlife crisis? Because to that point I had raced cars for 12, 13 years. I'd been on a motorcycle my whole life and done that kind of stuff. So they decided I was probably going to be like an accountant or something really completely backwards.

Fletch 33:52

My midlife crisis is gonna be boring. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

You know, I've had sports cars, I've had, you know, all that stuff's been like all those typical markers. So I I don't know. I think I got to the point where I had been on a motorcycle for so long and I had been, you know, playing with cars and all that stuff. That uh same thing as the Mississippi in a way that I uh had a friend tell me about meeting up with these hikers that were up around Tahoe that in a campground that they had ran out of food a few days before because they they had ran out and they were trying to get to Tahoe to pick up their next package of food. And I remember him telling me that story, and I said, Well, what were they doing there? He goes, I don't know. I guess there's some trail that runs from the Mexico border all the way to Canada. And I went, Really? That sounds cool. And he goes, I don't know, that doesn't sound cool at all. That sounds like a lot of hard work. And I just I remember that spark of going, that sounds really interesting. And so I think at that point I was just kind of a little frustrated with work, and I just kind of was looking for something. I'd stopped racing cars, and I don't know, I just it it that story came back to me. I'd heard it probably 10 years earlier, and I started one all of a sudden, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And for two weeks, I didn't tell my wife or anything. I just started researching. What does it take to do that? How long does it take? What what gear do you need? And so one day I came home and I was complaining to my wife about hard days at work, and she said, Well, what do you think is the next thing? And I said, funny, you should ask. Here's what I'm thinking. And she said, Really? Okay, I could see that. Really, you could see that, I could see that. And it became something, it kind of changed. In the beginning, it was something I want to do, and then it became, you know, I could probably do that. And then it became something that got so I felt like I have to do this. I don't know why I have to do this. And she was the same way. She said, I think you have to do this.

Fletch 35:45

And so funny enough, I followed that trail. That's where I stumbled into your story, watched your YouTube videos, but you didn't finish. I didn't. How far did you make it? What section did you make it to?

SPEAKER_00 35:57

I was at the base of Mount Whitney when I bailed out. I bailed out because I got so sick. It was I was super spick sick. But what's interesting was it was really another spiritual lesson. I met God in a way on that mountain that I have not since or before, in such a deep personal way, to my surprise, by the way. I've never done these adventures to find God or do whatever. I've done them because it sounds cool, but it seems like God has showed up in these. I I think I'm so hard-headed. I think God says, David, I gotta get you outside of the normal so you can hear my voice. I pulled into the hatchapee. I heard I went to a movie's one night, I had got all my gear ready and resupplied and had time, so I went to a movie, I was getting ready to keep going, and I heard just a small nudge that said, David, it's time to go home. And I remember thinking, Where'd that come from? I haven't had any doubt whatsoever. So it's not time to come home. And the next morning I got up and I got back to the trail, and that voice nagged me the whole way. It na it nagged me the whole day. David, it's time to go home. I'm like, it's not time to go home. Why am I having and in the beginning it just was like, where'd that doubt come from? But by the next day, I really knew it was God saying, it's it seems like when it seems like God says to me when he's speaking to me, David, it's this. It's not just it's this, it's David, it's this. And I argued with God for the next five days. I had to make it to a certain point. My buddies were picking me up on the trail. Every day, the whole day, David's time to go. It's not time. And first it was, it was uh it was like, if I stop, I will have failed. And so God, I felt like God said, Well, you're saying you're not gonna do what I'm telling you to do because of your pride. I'm like, no, it's not that. It's just, you know, this was the plan. So you're saying I can't change the plan. And I'm like, well, no, I'm not saying that. But it really was what God was saying, and it really was what I was saying. I was saying, I know, I you know, and so I got to the point where I knew God was saying it's time to go home. But I I wanted to get to the next part, which was uh Kennedy Meadows South, because that's 700 miles on the trail from Mexico, border of Mexico to there, and that's the southern section, they call it. So I wanted to get to that, into that, and which I did, but that voice never stopped. And then we were going into the Sierras. I was with a guy at the time who I'd met on the trail, and I felt like at that point God started dealing with me different as a disobedient child because I'm like, I'm not leaving. You know, this is our plan. God, you said I could do this, right? So I started going into the Sierras, and it was a bad snow year, and I started getting sick. After several days, we made it to the base of Mount Whitney. We were gonna go up Whitney at midnight because you want to go up when the it's the snow's firm. And there was this weird thing that happened on the way that I didn't expect. We were just like a day away from base camp at the base of Whitney, and this young lady was coming out, and she stopped and she she said, Are you guys climbing Whitney? And we said, Yeah. She goes, I want to tell you, don't do it. She said, It's sketchy as hell, and when you go up and the snow's firm, it's okay, but on the way down, it's gonna heat up and the snow's gonna get slushy, and your ass, your axe, your ice axe will not help you on the way down. You're using the ice axe to descend for safety. But what struck me was odd about her was she looked like she was 19, she was by herself, she was wearing these lavender pants. Sounds dumb, right? This little detail sounds dumb. So we'd been in the snow that was like slushy, like it would get slushy, and we were always wet and dirty. And she was wearing these lavender pants that were clean, and it bothered me. The whole conversation bothered me. So I I I'm not saying this, but if ever I've seen an angel, that was the time. It bothered me, and I was still getting sick, and I had this just like God sent me this one last message that said, I'm gonna send you somebody. But it kept going, and I finally got up to the base camp, and my buddy, we were gonna meet at midnight and go up with some other hikers, and I sat in that tent and wrestled with God all night. And I told him I wasn't feeling good, so if I don't show up, just go up without me. But what they didn't know was it was me wrestling with God in that tent, and I finally got to the point where I said, Okay, God, I don't know why you want to have me not do this, but I'm gonna obey and I'm gonna go home. And so they all left up the mountain, and as soon as it was light, I turned around and I head headed back out. It was 20, 24 miles, I think, to get back out. And what was interesting was I obeyed God, but he didn't make me feel better. I still was as sick as you could imagine. And at one point I I was hiking along and I started to pass out, and I grabbed all the street and I said, David, you can't pass out. You're in the middle of nowhere, and there's nobody who can save you. You gotta keep going. And I was getting starry vision, you know, when you're starting to pass out, have you ever done that? But I I kept going and I got out, and my wife came and picked me up along. I hit shiked up 395, by the way. She kind of met me at the other end. I remember she got me to I why I listened to the side. So I'm sorry, but she she uh took me to the hospital the next day. You know what they found? Nothing. Yeah, they said you're healthy as a horse. And I'm like, well, then why am I so sick? And I really think it was God just saying, You need you need to stop. And I still didn't understand till later. And now I think it's there's just time God changes your path. I think if I hadn't had that happen, I don't know that I would have made the the decision on the Mississippi. And it was just a reality that, you know, God sometimes changes your course. And my wife, she's so much smarter than me. She said, you know, she said, you know, David, you had planned on going to Canada, but that's really not what God had for you. Honestly, if you'd have kept going, you'd have been disobedient. This is the point God had for you, and that's what you were supposed to do. And which is hard to take for somebody who wants to finish it.

Fletch 42:35

So you don't see this today as unfinished business.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

I don't. Okay. And I do. There's a part of me that maybe someday I'll go back and finish it, but the lesson learned was so much more valuable than making it to Canada and being able to say, I did this.

Fletch 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

And meeting God in that way, one thing I really didn't say that I probably need to back up and say was that last night in the tent was an interesting feeling as a believer. God was so incredibly real to me at that point that I felt like I could reach out and touch his leg. And as a Christian, we want to say the closer we get to God in those instances, you know, it's wonderful. That's what you want to do. But you know what I felt? I was terrified. When I realized that I'd been arguing with God for hundreds of miles, I became kind of terrified that I was arguing with God. Who am I? The realness and the size of God became so real to me. It was terrifying, but I wouldn't change that for nothing. Being able to experience that. I don't know that I want to experience that again, by the way. But it was super powerful.

Motorcycles And Riding To The Arctic

Fletch 43:52

So I'm gonna move. I these have been great stories, I'm each one of them, but I I'm wondering what. Gonna happen when I ask these last two. So when did motorcycles enter your life?

SPEAKER_00 44:05

I got a mini bike when I was 10, which led to a dirt bike. And then as soon as I could ride the road, man, I got that first big, huge, fast street bike. My my Peugeot 103 Moped. That was my first street bike. And that led to a Honda, you know, CB350 and kept leaning. So I've been on a bike from the time I could, and that's always been my first love, really. I think I've logged somewhere 150, 200,000 miles, I would guess. I don't know. What is it that pulls you? I think it's a combination that really depends on the day, and it depends on the bike I'm on. I love just that feel of the open road and being there's things you well, you know, there's things you feel and smell and taste and experience on a bike when you're in the open wind that you can't in the car. Yeah. But there's also that part of being one with the machine. You know, one of my bikes is a Ducati, and I'm gonna tell you, there's times when I am when I was younger and used to ride a lot faster than I do now, that that being at one with that bike and and hitting those perfect sets of corners and pulling off the corner and being one with that machine is uh it sound I sound like a hippie, huh? Well, but I'm gonna tell you, man, I love just that being a part of that machine.

Fletch 45:23

I you can't explain it to people who don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

You can't.

Fletch 45:27

I mean, I think some people that drive really fast sports cars and they get that Yes. They they get that feeling of I had to experience that also. Yeah. That's something. So it's it's about freedom, it's about solitude, it's about challenge.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

And for me, it's about the machine too.

Fletch 45:43

Yeah, and briefly, you you did take an epic trip on a motorcycle. Yes. At least one.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yes. But you went to the Arctic? I did. Me and four of my knucklehead buddies rode all the way to the top of the continent here to a place called Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, which is about 250 miles into the Arctic Circle. Yeah, it's as far north as you can ride, and you're at literally at the edge of the Arctic Ocean. So we plunged into the Arctic, 29 degrees, by the way. It was cold, but there's floating ice, and we made it all the way there. Uh, every adventure motorcyclist has to have uh the Dalton Highway on their list. It's a 500 miles from Fairbanks to the end of the road. And so I describe it as well, first of all, they they put down this concoction that binds the road together, and it's this wet stuff they spray on there. And when it dries, it binds the road together. But when it's wet, it is the slippery stuff I have ever experienced in my life. So I describe the Dalton Highway as 30 or 40 miles of okay, punctuated by 800 yards of sheer terror. And I followed that trip too. Thank you.

Fletch 46:49

I follow you everywhere you go, my gosh. All right, so we go from motorcycles into race cars.

Race Cars And The Need For Speed

Fletch 46:56

Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Oh, a buddy of mine was doing these cheap little fun stock cars, and we started building these things, and I was helping him at first, and then helped him on his, and then I built one, and then we did it together, and then of course, racers are their own worst enemy. They you always have to go faster, right? So that cheap car turned into a little more expensive one, and we got going faster, which cost more money, and then it turned into another one, and then so that's kind of where it started. So it was probably 12-13 years for me of climbing the ladder of doing different different tracks and different types of cars, and it was a great time of life. I feel like I've lived several different lives, and so the life as a racer is just a whole different lifestyle. You know, you'd work on the car so many nights and spend so much time working on that car and trying to make the finances work and put your money into tires and all that stuff, but it is just was a great time. I loved it.

Fletch 47:57

Yeah, that's now that's one I cannot connect with you on. Everything else, I'm like, I would do this, I would try this. I have not had the race car.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Well, I gotta tell you, man, when you hit that perfect set of corners or you get past that guy that you know is outspending you five to one, man, that's a great joy, I gotta tell you.

What Adventure Teaches About Life

Fletch 48:16

So what have let's just wrap all these adventures up into just a few minutes of closing thoughts. What have these adventures taught you about life?

SPEAKER_00 48:25

I think life has just these wonderful stuff about it that if you never attempt to do or go out and and go after, you sure are gonna miss out on some stuff. Maybe not everybody's wired like me to want to do those things, but maybe there's things they want to do. Maybe there's things they want to travel to or things they want to see, but they never take the time or put in the effort to do it, and they don't just don't they get to experience the wonder of what's out there. So I think that's a lot of it.

Fletch 48:53

Dave, we have an invisible audience in front of us. What would you say to someone who's stuck in either the same routine or maybe at that crisis point you were where you're facing I I've got a job, I've got a I've got a faith, I've got a job, I've got this. Well, what you want I you get a chance to talk to them right now.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Well, as crazy as these big things have been for me, I wouldn't tell you just to go run off and do it right away. I think it takes a little bit of time and a little bit of thought to know what to do. But I would say once you know what to do, don't fear it so much that you don't do it. I think you gotta you gotta go the direction you're supposed to go. And I think if you just c live a complete safe life all the time, you're you're gonna miss out on some great great stuff.

Fletch 49:49

Let me ask this one more way. What do you want to say to that guy or gal, who's in their tent right now, arguing with God?

SPEAKER_00 50:01

I think the argue and the wrestle is an important part of the process. So I think continue to work that through with God and continue to wrestle it with God until you get to the point where the direction is clear. I think the wrestling is an important such an important part of the process, at least for me. But at some point, then you've got to act on it. That's where it gets hard, by the way. Up until then, it's just, you know, it doesn't mean anything until you do it. But the but eventually get to the point where you do it.

Next Adventures And Lightning Round

Fletch 50:41

All right, last question, and then we'll get to our lightning round. What adventure is still out there?

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Oh man, that's a good question. I mean, there's probably 15 different things I want to do. So the next adventurers out there is the one that's gonna rise to the top. I'm not even necessarily thinking about at the moment. And all of mine have kind of came that way. All of a sudden I get that spark and I go, hmm, what would that be like? So I'm not sure. I mean, there's a bunch I'd like to get my scuba certification and dive on a shipwreck someday. I think doing the Great Loop, which is a big boat up through the East Coast and over the Great Lakes and down the Mississippi and around Florida sounds intriguing to me. Doing something on a bicycle, I don't know, it probably won't be the same.

Fletch 51:28

Okay. All right, you ready for our lightning road?

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Oh, I don't know, but let's do it. So this is scared me a little bit, but let's do it.

Fletch 51:34

Yeah, no, no thinking, just fun, fastest thing that comes to your mind. Number one, what's the hardest adventure you've ever done?

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Oh, Pacific Crest Trail without a doubt.

Fletch 51:44

Okay. Number two, scariest moment in any of these adventures you've lived.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Yeah. I got in front of this lock number 13 on the Mississippi River. I camped about six miles from that lock, and the next morning I thought, this is wonderful. The wind's not coming at me, it's kind of gum and behind me. And as I got started heading towards that lock 13, the water got so bad, and the wind was pushing the waves behind me and to the side, and it was super uncomfortable. And I got really scared. I was praying and talking out loud, going, This is not, Lord, I don't like this. And it I was so scared and uncomfortable till I got to that lock. And I had called ahead and they didn't open the lock for me until I got there. They said we gotta cycle it. So I had to sit there as the waves battered me against the wall. And when they finally opened, and I went in there and they shut the doors and I calmed down. I just thought it was gonna collapse. The guy looked over, he goes, You okay? I went, that was pretty uncomfortable. So yeah, that was probably the scariest moment.

Fletch 52:54

Your favorite place on earth?

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Favorite place on earth. Well, the ocean. Carmel Monterey, Santa Cruz, you know, that area. Love it.

Fletch 53:04

This isn't gonna be a hard one.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Well no, here we go. Motorcycle of choice. Ooh, that's not hard at all. That's easy. Bimoda Tessie. Do you even know what a Bimoda Tessie is? I do not. Baimoda is a boutique builder that builds the most beautiful, it's Italian, and it builds the most beautiful bikes you have ever seen. And the Tessie is a Ducati powered bike that doesn't have a front fork, it has a front hub. And it is a work of art. Beautiful.

Fletch 53:34

Okay. Just for our listeners' sake, how much is that bike gonna cost?

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Oh, I think used, you probably get one for 40,000, 50,000, I guess.

Fletch 53:42

Okay. All right, still reasonable. Yeah. All right. What's one adventure everyone should try?

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Which everyone scares you a little bit.

Fletch 53:54

All right. Well, I want to thank you for being on the Mango Times podcast. Like I said, you were one I hunted down. I I heard you on. Well, first off, I follow, as you have heard, I followed most of your adventures. I heard you on Chris Onith's podcast, and I wanted you to come do this. So I really appreciate you coming in and actually coming into the studio with me. Yes. And thanks for this delightful conversation. I appreciate it. And if people want to reach you, how do they reach you?

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Well, I mean, I'm on Instagram. I'm see if I get this right now.

Fletch 54:26

Put your link up for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

That'll help because I always got to look it up. You can see me on Instagram, and a lot of it's boring. A lot of it's me going to the movies with my wife or something crazy like that. But you can look at my entire Mississippi River adventure on there. Okay. That was my journal.

Fletch 54:41

Do you maintain a YouTube channel at all anymore?

SPEAKER_00 54:43

I had one for the hiking. It was called Go Waldo Go.

Fletch 54:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

And I think it's still there. I don't know.

Fletch 54:49

I haven't looked for a little bit. And the Proudhone Bay Riders, they probably still have an Instagram page up. Yes. I think I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

It was Dead Horse Rider.

Fletch 54:56

Yeah, I'll put that up for everybody as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Yeah. So we kind of shared that one. So that was a that was uh probably my f most fun adventure. Okay. A lot of shenanigans happened on that trip.

Fletch 55:06

Well, again, thank you for being on the podcast, and I look forward to the next act.

Closing Thoughts And Listener Challenge

Fletch 55:13

All right, folks, that's Dave Conway. And I'll be honest with you, I went into this conversation thinking that we were going to talk about adventure, about rivers, about mountains, and about motorcycles. And we did. But that's not really what this episode ended up being about, right? This one turned into a conversation about letting go. Letting go of something that you've held on to for a really long time, and then having the courage to step into whatever comes next. So here's what I'd love from you. If something in this episode stirred something in you, can you do me a favor and send me a message? There's a link in the show notes, send Fletch a text, or just head over to the website themangotimes.com and hit the let's connect button. Maybe it's an adventure you've been thinking about. Or maybe it's something that you need to let go of. And maybe you just need to tell someone. Maybe that's your first step. So would you do me a favor? Send me a message, say, hey Fletch, this is what I have planned. Or hey Fletch, this is where I'm stuck. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to connect with you. And in the meantime, if you don't have your next adventure planned, well, that's okay. Come back in two weeks and we'll talk about more midlife adventures together. Hey, thank you for listening. Now, why don't you hop on board with me and let's go quietly make some noise.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

It's easy.