Episode 12: Delivering energy security, live from Cabinda

We are live from Cabinda, joined by Founder and CEO of Gemcorp Capital, Atanas Bostandjiev, and CEO of Imbono, Marcus Weyll. We explore the journey of the Cabinda Oil Refinery from minefield to one of Africa’s most significant downstream energy projects, securing Angola’s energy future.

Important Information 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello and welcome to Gemcast here at the Kabinda Refinery in Angola. We are on the ground. I'm wearing safety protection. The two gentlemen next to me are not, but I don't think I need it. So I'm going to take this off. The people who I'm joined by need no introduction. We have Marcus Vahl, who's the CEO of Imbono, who's been on the podcast before. Atanas Postangev, the CEO of Gem Corp, who equally needs no introduction. And today, as I said, we are on the ground. It was Marcus your idea to do this podcast here live in Kabinda when we sat down three or four months ago. So how'd you feel now we're here?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Very good, actually. Very nice to have you here on the ground, Tom. It's pretty hot. Yes, not that hot. Okay. I can't consider it. It's very you know the helmet fits you very well.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

I like the look. I think I should have had a career as an engineer.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yes, yes. You're good at the uh at the opposition now. Don't push the mud.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Don't let me lose those things. That's fair enough. And obviously, hello Atanas, how are we doing? You mean happy to be here in Cabinda?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Very happy to be here, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Good. Amazing. So the reason we're here is because the Cabinda Refineries now come online. And so we wanted to sit down and discuss the story of how we got here. You know, and and we've been doing a tour today, we've been talking about it. You know, it's super inspirational to hear about how this amazing structure behind me, you know, just six years ago was a pile of dirt filled with landmines. So we're gonna go from that to a fully functioning refinery that's solving energy security issues for Angola. So look, Atas, let's start with you because you were here right at the beginning. Tell me the original vision. What was the problem that Kabinda was trying to solve? Why did the Angolan government, Son Angol, come to us to try and solve this problem?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Kabinda refinery started um not six years ago. It started actually from the very first moment we opened uh our business here in Angola, uh, which was 2014. So almost 12 years ago. And Cabinda Refiner is a product of the original vision that we had as a company, which we still have as Gem Corp, uh, to invest, to become a critical investor, impactful investor, a transformational investor, and an operator in emerging markets, uh, starting from Angola, Africa, and the broader emerging markets, which ultimately helped us build a conviction, our investing experience, um, our presence on the ground, our people on the ground here helped us better understand the reality, which you normally don't get to realize when you are outside of the country. And us having that granular information, that understanding of the reality, then led us to understand that Angola has an energy security problem. You have the second largest uh crude oil producer on the African continent that is still operating and servicing its uh product, oil product needs uh in the country with a one refinery only that barely meets uh two, three, five percent of its needs. And ultimately that understanding of that problem uh led us to conceive this beautiful project uh back in 2019 when our partner Sonango um asked us to come up with a technical financial solution to help realize uh uh Cabinda refinery in the most strategic energy province of uh of uh the country. As you know, Cabinda hosts uh the majority of the uh oil production in in Angola. Cabinda needs industrial investment, it needs foreign investment. And we were very fortunate and opportunistic um to be asked by the government of Angola, to be asked by Son Angol to really help them uh with this technical and financial solution. And we that's how we started in uh 2019. Um we took on this huge, huge challenge, almost unprecedented, um, for someone to build um uh industrial plant like this. And I'm very happy and very proud that we're sitting here now, uh five, six years later, with um uh something that we can show for and speak for.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Absolutely. Marcus, let's go to you. Let's think about the early challenges. I talked about the the landmines, so maybe that's a good place to start. You know, articulate to the you know, if you're by the way, if you're listening to this podcast, you should pause and go to YouTube or the website of Gem Corp and watch it because you're gonna see it. But you know, give somebody, give people a sense of what this was when we when we started here. Well, you know, that those early challenges that we had to overcome. And that's not just the logistical things, but all of all of the regulation, everything involved here.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

It was a bush, actually. When we arrived here the first time, uh it was uh oh green area, uh uh uh a bush. There is no no infrastructure, there is no a lot of uh landmines. So the first job was actually to demine the the land, right? And then to prepare the land and then to organize it. Uh and there was a uh vision, there was a intention, a shared vision was not only uh Gene Corp vision, but was also the government of Angola and Son Angol understanding that it's what is necessary for for to achieve the energy security. So and how a region like Cabinda, who is producing oil for the last 70 years, how we could never process the crude of Cabinda in Cabinda during 50 years of independence that we have last year. We didn't we Angola haven't built any refineries. So there is a lot of good intention, there is a lot of uh vision, but there were necessarily complementary coming from the private sector to develop uh solutions that we can put uh that we can see here now built on the ground, right? Yeah, uh so on the beginning was uh very crude area with uh in a in a in a region that's remote in Angola, yeah. Right, uh you can go see on the Google Maps where where is Cabinda, yeah, and you will see that it's remote and far away from from Ruanda.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

And it's an enclave.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

It's an enclave. So so and even to ship here, uh we were talking today, even to ship the tanks and the CDUs, what you can see there on the back, uh we needed to bring from Port Noir. The port here was not good. You cannot bring from roads from Angola, it's not connected, it's it's you have like uh Congo in between. Right? So uh it's it's it's a challenge, right? Yeah, but uh I think that the great thing that we have is the the engagement of our team. Engagement of our team since the beginning. Uh it's uh it's a vision that was coming from from the group, from the corporate, but was a vision that was embraced by everyone, yeah, by everyone in the team. And this is what makes this happen. You see, when we have a proper guidance, a proper vision that's shared with everyone, and everyone is looking to the same direction, look of what we can accomplish, right? And there are a lot of people that participate on that initiative. Uh we have one of them here, Felipe here with us, right? He's over there. He's uh uh it's really important taking the lead in the process and and in the beginning here, but we have other several members of the team that participated that that you can see what we've done now when we have a shared vision with everyone going in the same direction.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

So the challenges are overcome by that the drive, the ambition, the vision, tenacity. Tenacity. I mean, was there a moment when you thought we can't do this? This isn't happening, right? That this just is too big a crazy thing, or did you always have the faith?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

I absolutely always had the faith that uh whatever challenges that we faced, and we faced a lot. We faced COVID, we faced the Ukrainian war, we faced uh um local logistical challenges, but I I never lost faith. Yeah. Um and for me, as Markus said, um I didn't lose that because I knew we had a very good team around us to to work on it. And whatever challenge that we faced, we found a solution. Yeah. And I would like also to mention um our partner Solengo here and the government of Angola, it was it was critical. And it's again one of those testaments that many people believe that uh projects like of this magnitude are impossible to build in Africa. But I think uh we're showing that if you have parties with aligned interests, i.e., like the government of Angola, like Sonangol, and us as a private investor to develop something, all kinds of issues that we face were solved.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Okay. Marcus, when I asked that question, you had a wry smile on your face. Is there a moment when you I mean Atanas has deep belief, so we know that. Was there a moment when you were I had I had no other choice? Was there a moment you cracked and thought, oh gosh, what have we got ourselves into?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

No, we never crash, right? We we we we have, as Atanas mentioned, we have an amazing team. Yeah, we have the perfect partners, right? And we have a common vision and objective with all of us. Yes, we have a lot of challenges, yeah. Uh not only COVID, not only uh Ukraine and all the crash and disruption on the supply chain in worldwide, but we also have the challenge of building our refinery in uh in a place that was never built in the past 50 years. Yes. So uh also have the challenge of the uh fossil fuel uh uh ESG from the banks that was looking at the moment that maybe this is not a good uh thing to to do with our investment. So we have a lot of challenge. But with the team that we have and with the with the events that was happening on the ground, we saw that the challenge that we had it it was possible to overcome. And we also have the timing, uh, the timing uh uh challenge that we need to make it happen, right? So it's a challenge we never doubted. We never doubted. Uh it's a funny question because I was in in London maybe a month and a half ago, and someone asked me, uh, is cabinda really happening? What's going there uh now? And what if if if we have a problem with the pump X, Y, and Z. Guys, we have 700 people sitting on the ground in in Angola working. We have 200 people working in cabinda. Yeah, uh I'm pretty sure that our team is possible to handle if a pump fails. Yes, this is not the the problem. Actually, we saw it, you saw it, you saw it on the ground. Challenge we have every day. You saw the challenge that we have today, right? So you saw the challenge that we have today, but it's working, right? So you see there, you can see the flare. Yeah, so it's working, uh, it's processing. So people cannot believe it, but it's there. Uh some of them still don't believe it until they come, until they come here. Well, they can also well, actually, anyone that you don't believe, you can come. You can come, we bring cabinet to our viewers.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

So there's no AI involved in this, it's all real. Yes. Um, okay, so we talked about financing. I want to ask a question about that. So, can you sort of give us an insight of the role that private credit played in terms of the flexibility of the asset class, it's it's its ability to fund projects like this, but also maybe any of the challenges that you had with the funders. I know, for example, you talked about Western banks, all the funders are from Africa. I think that's a really interesting point. So, Atanas, can you sort of dive into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Absolutely. Look, um the obviously the technical, the the geographical challenge was one part of the equation, and our ability to understand the complexity that we were dealing with helped us find uh the right solution.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

But the other big part of the problem was obviously funding, right? And um usually, as we say to many people, when you construct a project like this normally takes six, seven years to build, and probably the first three, four years is all the project is on paper. Yeah, you have pre-feasibility study, feasibility study, feed, engineering, and only then you have financial clothes. Yeah. Which could take anywhere between two, three, four years or longer within the project. We had we didn't have this time.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Uh we had commitments uh to that we made to the government of Angola. Uh we that we're gonna deliver, find a way to deliver the project on time, which meant that actually we had to take the initial financial risk ourselves. So we started to commit and put our own equity from the firm towards the project to substantially start de-risking the project as we were building, obviously taking huge risk on ourselves. Yeah, um, and then having done that, then we started approaching uh the traditional project finance uh counterparts, and to our greatest disappointment or regret, we saw that Western banks, yeah, American, European, they they didn't want to touch the project for a number of reasons. A hydrocarbons restrictions, uh even though the equipment that you see here came all from uh the United States, yeah, the project had a strategic importance for the government of Angola: import substitution, hard currency uh preservation, job creation, energy security, and yet Western funders had a blind eye and blind ear to that. Yeah, and we're extremely grateful and proud to have found African banks, our partners, AFC, African Finance Corporation, and Afrix Sim, Badea, TDB, IDC, BFA, a local bank here in Angola, to actually work with us understanding the criticality and the importance of this project on the continent in Angola, and literally working with us to find a solution. And finally, we created the first ever project finance non-recourse transaction in Angola.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

The first ever project finance non-recourse transaction in Angola is here.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Is here is here, and that's again due to the ingenuity, the perseverance, the creativity of the Gem Corp team and our partners from uh the banking syndicate. Wow. And I I I think it sounds obviously much easier than than it than than it looks, but it was very, very, very difficult and tenuous process. And I really hope that now this serves as a platform, as a blueprint, yeah, for other banks, other financial players to come in and join the path that we have started to go because this country needs a lot of investment like this in energy infrastructure. Yes. A lot.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yes. You talked about partners, and Marcus, you know, you spent a lot of time on the ground, lived here in Angola for many years as well. Tell us about the relationship that we have with those, the partners to deliver. That's not just the funders that we talked about, but it's governments on Angola, Atanas touched on it. How did that relationship evolve over time? What made it work? You know, was there ever a moment when there might have been a little bit of strain, maybe? Like, just give us an insight into that.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Uh it's it's it's a a partnership, it's it's based on trust, right? Yeah, so trust you build with first being humble. Right. And the first thing you need to be humble and understand what are the values of each one in the partnership, right? So everyone adds value in the partnership. So the first thing is we need to understand our partners, right? We need to understand what what are their objectives and what are their constraints and what are their uh and their strengths and what are their challenges. And we know this country, and I've been living here for the past 15 years. Yeah. And we know the the strengths and we know what they can actually deliver. Uh but when you build with when you are humble and you show your value, you recognize this value, then this relation must it's open in a trust basis. It's like a marriage. Yeah. So and when you have a trust uh relation, you have a transparent relation. So you can put the situations to overcome the challenge. Regardless of the tension, regardless of the moment, you need to to out to get away from this tension situation and work in a solution. Okay. You need to work with your partnership to work in a solution. And you and the good solution is the one that's uh win-win for both sides. And there is win-win for both sides, right? So you cannot get just a win for your side, you need to understand the other side. And when everyone believes that this is the great solution, and you're doing what is right for the project, what's right for the strategy, that is you cannot forget that the strategy was how to overcome and how to add value for the energy security for the country. And need to be uh investor, uh uh a bankable project, yeah, attracted to investor, but also considering the the the necessity of the managing the the energy security. If you put all of this in the equation, everyone understands each other, you're gonna work with a solution. Everybody will work, so but you need a trust relation, you need transparency, and you need to listen. Yeah, normally listen more than speak, right? Tough to me. Tough for me. Yeah, but actually then you overcome, and then it's easy. Then it's actually easy. Uh when you put your feet on the other other side shoes, yeah, it's you understand and then you overcome the situation. And then when the decision is made, just implement it, just execute it. Don't keep going back on on pining, ah, this should be done different, etc. Just move. Just move. And then if you need to adapt, you adapt. But this is the way that partnership is built, right? Not being discussions, discussions, discussions, and whatever. You need to put, see it, everyone in the table, just fix it and move. And and we did it. It we did. And and actually, what you see here, actually, Tom, is just 50% of the Capex. There's another 50% that's going on that direction there. It's another 23 kilometers, 12 kilometers on shore, 12 kilometers offshore of pipelines, pump stations, things that you don't see. Uh, and it's a challenge. So what you're seeing here is just 50% of the capex. And it's already too much, it's already bigger. It's pretty easy.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yes. Okay. So now feels like a pretty opportune time to be starting an ore refinery, right? You know, given everything that's going on in the world. But my sense was it wasn't an easy decision to make when you signed an MOU for the project or when you started working on it, you know, in 2018, 2019. So talk me through that decision then, right? Because I'm thinking of the context in that world was a lot more sustainability, everybody net zero. You talked about Western banks not wanting to fund. I mean, you got a lot of doors slammed in your face, you're doing something contrarian, and I know that's part of our DNA, and we spoke about it here, but how does it feel being contrarian with something so big?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Tom, being contrarian depends from what point of view you look at it. So if you look at it from the prism of the Western status quo. Yeah. Yes, it was contrarian to build a refinery because nobody in the Western Hemisphere had built a refinery probably for 34 years. I mean, name me one refinery that was built in the last 20 years in Europe or in the United States. But being on the ground here and understanding the needs of this country, the fact that actually this country produces crude oil, all of its crude oil goes to China, and this country imports all of its refined products from Europe or elsewhere. Yeah, it is an obvious decision, obvious investment decision to make is actually to build a refinery to meet the local demand. So actually, when we look at it from this perspective, it was very obvious. For us. Yeah. But contrarian and impossible, improbable, difficult for everybody else. But that goes back to our whole reason to exist as GemCorp. Is we look for opportunities like this which look impossible or super risky for other investors. But when we are here on the ground and we understand the true reality, we see that actually the risk is not there. Or the risk is uh much better manageable or measured relative to what the perception is. And that's what really differentiates us from other asset managers, and that's why we deliver consistently for our investors, our shareholders over those years.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

And just to add uh to that, it's it's I think it's a completely blind view on suitcase business, right? Uh so you sit on your desk and and try to understand what is happening in Africa. Uh this refinery by themselves, it's gonna save$1.5 billion of uh importation for the country. Are we being contrarian? This refinery by themselves generate 3.3 thousand employees during constructions. It's generating another thousand uh employees with the construction. It's gonna bring second phase. So actually contrarian is not to to to see the reality of of the emerging market, especially Africa. This is contrarian. This is uh it's almost blind. It's blind. So this is it's it's so for us was never contrarian. Complete common sense, yeah, complete common sense. So and energy transition, we have 400 million people in Africa that doesn't have energy. Yeah. So how are we gonna make energy transition if we don't first deliver energy? These guys need to, we need to to to overcome this situation. So for us it was not contrario.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Okay. So you talked about some of the impact, what this means for Angola Kabinda. So Marcus, tell me tell me about the local impact here in Kabinda, of the refinery, from a social perspective, actually. And it's easy to talk about the environmental part, but what about the social perspective? The jobs created, the impact, you know, on Cabinda as a as a place, on the population here, and what we've done to make to make this work for the community that we operate in. Because I think one of the things that's important is that it's you know, you're not just perceived to be just dropping something and fly in, fly out. You know, it has to be integrated into the community, the society that it's in. So give me some insight.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, it's one fundamental pillar of our investment strategy, the integration and and with the community, right? So the boots on the ground and not only be perceived, but act as a global company with uh local presence and and local business. Yeah. To do that, you need to engage with people, not only our teams, but also and especially the communities. Uh we came here to stay. We're not uh uh investors with an exit strategy, it's uh on equity investments, a permanent equity investment. So we came here to stay. We are here for the past 12 years. Our strategy was always how we're gonna bring the local, the team, to not only to embrace but to consider the cabinda, the project, as their own project. So we we always started engaging the community since the beginning. And I don't know if you're gonna have the opportunity to walk through Cabinda, the city, I think.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah, we will do, we will do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

You will see how the population here loves the project Cabinda.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

The cabinda we are here for during construction for the past five years. We have big projects, big oil producers. We are here for the six, seventy years. Yeah, and I can ensure you that the population loves much more cabinda refinery, knows much more about cabinda refinery than the others' international oil companies that are here. Yeah. Uh we brought water for communities, we brought training for communities. And since the beginning was our intention to even from day zero to start with the majority of our operators from national. So we have people here working in the cabinet refinery that was part of uh a social uh educational program of ChainCorp that we sponsor the university studies in the book in Bulgaria. Then they came back to Angola and uh some of them are here working in cabinda refinery. Yeah, so we started that years ago. So the engagement with the community is not only the project, years ago with this project. Yeah, then we have a training program that we did uh a year before of our uh commissioning, we start training the national operators. So we have 90, I think it's 90 operators that was trained, and we have the majority of our team from national. So this is not only a speech, this is actually a behave, this is actually a value. And and you will see walking in in the communities how uh embrace the project is from the community. They do understand that this is their project, they embrace us their project, and this is the biggest uh achievements that we can have. This is the biggest uh promotion that we can have. Our partners are happy, uh are happy, our clients are happy, the government is happy, the banks are happy, the communities are happy, the investors are happy, uh, so everyone is happy. Is Marcus happy? Oh, I'm always happy. Good.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

That's important.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And Atanas, I say, I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Atanas, how does it how does it make you feel when you you see this? You know, you know, as I said at the start, from uh from nothing to this huge project, the jobs created, the impact on the local community, how does it make you feel?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Very proud, though. I mean, uh it's really really impressive and it's my my kind of hair stands up, right? Um it's really humbling and I'm very proud uh because literally to to convert um this project from a landmine field or from a bush as Marcus said to a working enterprise with which is impacting thousands of people here in the local community. It's it's just impressive, and I'm really proud of um what we have achieved as uh as a company of our people, uh Gem Corp and our partners, our shareholders, uh our investors, and everybody that has supported us and believed in us. Um and this pride actually makes me happy and looking forward. It gives me the confidence that actually we can do more. And I see this as a stepping stone that now we we see, we understand what we can do, and uh ready to take the next challenge.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

And you've had a pretty impressive career today. Where did this rank in your achievements?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I think um as as high as it could get. Number one, number one.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

You have to say that until we have another one.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Until we have another one. Okay, yeah, yeah. No, no, look, it it is it is incredible. The magnitude of the work, complexity, the people involved, the teamwork. Yeah. Um it's it's it's really impressive. Something else. It's in really impressive. And I think that's how we all look at it. The whole Gem Corp, uh, whole Gem Corp team, I think it's it's a big, big achievement, and uh we should all be proud of.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, I completely agree. I'm in awe of your bloody-mindedness, ability, and tenacity to pull it off.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

And how is your feeling here in the ground, then? How is your feeling in walking the front? But I I just it's it's good to people to know also your for me.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Uh get the reversed. I mean, look, I think the the thing that is really inspirational for me is I spent 15, 20 years working in asset management, and it's always very nebulous. You never get to look and touch and feel and see what the money that you invest goes into. In equities or bonds, it doesn't feel real. When there's something that is taken from start to finish, executed, delivering, creating jobs, impact that's super tangible, that's kind of inspirational, to be honest with you. And and I think it's uh testament to your work that you've both done and the whole team, frankly, to pull it off. But that that really makes me think, wow, that's something amazing achieved. Um that's how I feel about it. But anyway, look, good. We we go we're aligned to so we so we we look forward. What comes next here at Cabinda? So, what are the plans? What are you guys cooking up? Is the kind of next the next things, the projects, the developments here? Where do we go next?

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Here in Cabinda or elsewhere?

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Let's start with it. Let's go here in Cabinda because we're here, you know, filming.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

We have phase two, huh? Okay. That we're already not cooking, we already made the decision, right? So we're already investing on phase two. Okay. Right. A eight million uh dollars invested in phase two to get us started. Yes, yeah. So we have we're gonna launch this year uh the the feed we're gonna conclude, and then we have the EPC, so everything progressing. Uh there are other things in on the pipeline here for Cabinda, uh brownfield projects, um upstream projects, yeah. Other sectors also that we have on the pipeline. Um but for cabinda we have uh uh something that we we will now get more integrated in in another kind of challenge for for that we have in cabinda, water, energy, infrastructure, all our platforms to put together. Of course, we had a focus in in here, but as we said, we came to stay. Yeah, we don't plan to to we don't have any plan to exit or to leave. And this being our house, we're gonna we're gonna put all our platform available so we can contribute and add value, whatever the the client understands and the investor understands that we can add. So we do have lots of thinking pipelines in our verticals to Cabinda. Here Cabinda, it's a very interesting uh state of the country, yep. Potential of many areas, so we do have uh a lot of things in mind to to cabinda. Atanas, we'll come to you for the last question.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

If you were starting the project again from scratch, is there anything that you would do differently?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yes, um, I would ask Marcus first.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

I had this guy two years earlier, right? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Fine. That's a good moment to finish, I think. Thank you very much. So, look, folks, thank you so much for joining us for this special edition gem cast from On the Ground here in Cabinda. Thank you very much, Marcus.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Thank you, Tom, for being here.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Thank you, Atanas, for joining me. As always, if you want to learn more about Gem Corp Capital, visit wwwgmccapital.com. Or if you want to learn more about Embono, visit wwwnbono.com. Thank you for listening.