Morgxn & JB Somers: Identity, Acceptance & the Power of Being Yourself

This week, Amanda welcomes Morgxn and JB Somers to That Nashville Girl for a conversation about music, songwriting, identity, and the courage to be yourself.

Together, they explore how personal experiences shape the songs we write, the power of vulnerability in both music and life, and why creating spaces of acceptance and belonging matters now more than ever.

From Nashville stories and creative journeys to deeper conversations about masculinity, authenticity, and community, this episode offers an honest look at the people behind the music.

If you love country music, singer-songwriters, and the stories that inspire great songs, you'll love this conversation.

Don't forget: new episodes drop every Tuesday with bonus episodes on Thursdays! Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you never miss a minute!

Connect with Amanda on That Nashville Girl Instagram, Amanda's Instagram, and YouTube.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

I keep asking you What's it like to be a real man?

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the show, JB Summers and Morgan with an ex.

SPEAKER_06 0:15

What does it mean to be a real man? It's like a revelation to hear that there's another way to be a man. You're allowed to have feelings. You're allowed to cry.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

You hear it one time and you feel like you can sing along, and I thought, okay, you've you've struck gold.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

I'm either doing it or I'm just gonna stay in this small town and never come out and never be myself.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You just played Bridgestone.

SPEAKER_06 0:35

I sang the Predator's National Anthem when I was like 10.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

When you were 10, by the way. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 0:40

Not the upper stage yet.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I'm the first to buy ticket.

SPEAKER_06 0:46

And that's what Fruity Farm is. We're just trying to love people really loudly.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Love is not about sides.

SPEAKER_06 0:51

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

No, it's the thing that brings us together. If it's more about Welcome to the show, JB Summers and Morgan with an ex. I'm so happy that you all are here. I have been like beside myself since we locked in a date. This is so exciting.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I'm so excited. So glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So happy you're here. And listen, I have to just shout out to our sponsor, Ophelia.

SPEAKER_06 1:24

It's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Aguas frescus, and it's the hibiscus tea. It's not tea, it's an aguas frescous, but it's like a hibiscus tea blend, and it's so refreshing. I swear it's a cure for allergies. I don't, I don't know if I'm right. I'm not a doctor, but I'm down. Call it that on this.

SPEAKER_06 1:41

It's about to be so swampy this summer, so it's refreshing. Get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yes, get it. Yes. So thank you, Ophelia. Um, Max and Ophelia is great. Y'all go see them. The food is delish.

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Yum.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

So I'm just ecstatic to have you guys here to rewind and tell people how I became obsessed with you guys. And and you know I do that. I get like once I'm in, I'm like, buy all the merch, give me all the things, download all the songs. Um so I saw y'all at Tinpan South and at Analog, which is that one of the best rooms to play.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

It's the sound is amazing, though. It's probably one of my favorite venues in town for sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

It is this.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

It feels like a living room. Yeah. Yes. Just a little bit bigger.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Just a little bigger. But Nick.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

The sound is clear.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Nick does so great on the sound there. It's unbelievable. Um, you guys would sound good anywhere. I'm certain of that. But I I went to some what'd you say?

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Like in arenas, in stadiums, manifesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Manifestation. Well, you just didn't. I just did. You did.

SPEAKER_06 2:41

You just did Bridgestone. I did, which is wild. Which is we'll come back to that.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

We're gonna come back to that because it's it needs a whole moment.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Tim Man's House was an incredible event. It always is. This year, every show I saw was incredible. But um, I have two shoes just in case I start crying with you guys because you guys stopped me in my tracks. Like it was pin drop silence in the moment that you sang together. You had a round and then you brought JB up with you, and you sang Real Man, which is a song that's on your album, and you have it out as a single as well. And I just um we're gonna talk about that in depth for hours and hours to get talk about that song. But it just was one of those moments where I was like, okay, I'm in love with both of you, and I need you on the podcast immediately. And my stalking started there.

SPEAKER_06 3:31

So for anyone wondering, doing that song at Tinpan, Tinpan is like a legendary festival in Nashville for songwriters and artists. And my mom goes every year, like she is a big fan of Tin Pan, and she's always been like, you have to play tin pan. So it was exciting to play it first of all, but it was also scary to sing a song like Real Man in a space like that, because you're singing words that are, you know, it's more about bearing arms than holding hands. I don't want to be a real man, you know, and that is a scary thing to mic drop in the middle of rooms that don't always hear songs like that. And that's why I mean JB and his friends wrote that song, um Fran Lutrosky and Nel Maynard. Nel Maynard. Yeah, amazing songwriters. Yes. And that song just needs to be in every room possible. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Every every room, and and again, I like full-body chills. What was also amazing to me, I mean, you guys wrote such a song, you you recognized it immediately. I I went to bed that night and woke up the next morning with it in my head. And I I that's incredible when you hear it one time and and you feel like you can sing along, and I thought, okay, you've you've struck gold.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

But it is something that I feel like the world needs.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I think men need to hear that song. And I hope that many, many men will hear that song and you know, ask themselves what it what does it mean to be a real man instead of what society tells us it means to be a real man.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

And I think, I mean, not to I I can't beat around the bush here. It's like this is a real epidemic. We have a problem with men thinking that that being a man is being uh aggressive and angry and hiding emotions. And like, you know, this is a big story in the past week, but it's like I know people like, well, not all men, yeah, not all men, but at least 62 million men have visited a website last month where they're like looking for ways to like abuse women and be like uh seen and share videos of it. And this is a problem. This is a problem that this is the culture that we live in where that is prioritized over softness and sweetness. And so true. And I think that I've seen JB play the song and and we've played the song together, and I you get to the end of the course, and I've seen people in the audience go, like, you can hear them audibly be like, oh, but like, you know, it's like a a revelation to hear that there's another way to be a man, you know. And we like didn't grow up together, but we both grew up in the south, which I think says a lot about you know the kind of upbringing that we both had. Like you were taught that being a man was everything but the thing that I currently live as a man, you know. But I'm a man, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, and I think it was interesting because when I heard it, I thought, you know, for for anyone who is struggling with sexuality, and I think you you hit on it with the South. I mean, it's you know, I I grew up in a small town in the South where you're expected to look a certain way, talk a certain way, do certain things, you know, um, join Future Farmers of America, which we're gonna talk about with you, Mr. Farmer, in a minute. But in a way that, like, I I've been intrigued since I heard your song, and now I've listened to it so many times, thinking about how we normalize kids going out and you know, getting their first deer at like six years old, right? This is the thing that my mom and dad are gonna put on Facebook, right? And like, shoot a deer. And I just can't wrap my head around that personally, because I feel like that's exactly what you wrote about. That's hey, you know, we're defining real men a certain way from a very young age. And you just broke it wide open. How did y'all start this song?

SPEAKER_03 7:18

I mean, it feels like a tired narrative that men have to be these warrior figures or cowboys or, you know, some sort of uh I don't know, person that is just only focused on strength that is outwardly manifested instead of an inward strength of emotional maturity and understanding of one's self. So we started the song just by talking about the state of the world and how masculinity is so pigeonholed into this one way of being instead of the softness, the emotional maturity, the understanding of oneself, the queerness that we experience as queer men in the South. And we were talking about my childhood experience, we discussed our own um experiences with men in general, and it just kind of flowed out. It was crazy. And that one statement of what's it like to be a real man was the first thing that we said in the right, and then it just all tumbled out. It's one of those rights that I I will never forget, and I can't I can't go back to that feeling because you can't you can't replace it and you can't replicate it, but it was one of the most amazing, healing, cathartic moments of my entire life. Um AI could never do that. I AI could never, baby, Suno could never.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

There's no way.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

I think one of the most powerful things of that moment was writing it with two women. Such a good point. And I just I I remember sitting across from both of them being like, this is this is the only way I could ever do this. I could never write that song with two men or you know, another man in the room. I wouldn't have felt safe. Which tells you a lot about what it means to be a man in society.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

You don't share those kind of emotions, you don't share those feelings. I cr I remember crying in the in the right and just being so overcome by the the feeling of being able to have the space to ask the question, what is it like to be a real man? And not have the answer and be okay with that. I think that's the other part of it.

SPEAKER_06 9:29

And every day, in Nashville, every day people are like in rooms searching for some kind of truth. And it's a moment like that that that makes you believe again that the power of a song is that, like that you hopefully hit the kernel of some truth and you might and it might ring out past the moment that you're in, the moment you're alive, the moment whatever. And that song, you know, there's somebody blasting loud music in this residential neighborhood. And I'm like, what's it like to be a real man over there? Like, I want to go over to him and be like, Are you okay? Do you want to cry? Like, it's okay. Maybe turn down music or put on a lullaby.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

I don't know, but something else.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I mean, it's a really um, you're so right. I think when you pose a question that you don't need the answer to, but in doing it, I think when you said it was very cathartic for you, I think it's healing for so many people. And you're not even gonna know the lives that are touched. I mean, I shared it with so many people. I I shared it with straight friends, I s I sent it to my gay friends, and because I I have friends who they grew up in houses like what you write about, that it said, you know, no, this is how a real man is. And turns out he's not that way, and you don't have a connection then with your dad, and you try to have a connection with yourself and others, and it's very difficult to heal from that.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So I think what you guys have done, and then you guys singing it together, y'all. Just gentle men, uh gentle, fiery men, because I don't tell you that's why real men are to me. You guys, I could not believe it. Your voices, I mean, you like I said, you could have heard a pin drop. And then I think when you finished the song, what was crazy to me is that nobody knew what to do. It was like, but it's not over. It's not over. Yeah. And so I just am like silently sobbing in the back by myself. It's fine, everything's fine. And I'm like, and then everybody was like, oh, it's okay to do this because I didn't know what to do either. But I think we didn't, we didn't want it to end. It was a moment we all wanted to just live in with you.

SPEAKER_06 11:36

So it feels so special to sing it with him because of because of men being men singing about emotions like in this moment. And it's it, you know, listen, toxic masculinity is not something just reserved for straight men. Like gay men have a problem too. Yeah, you know, yeah, and there is it is a a thing that blurs all lines, but it, but it is squarely a man problem, you know. Like I was thinking about it as I was coming over here. I'm feeling a little emotional today, and and and when I talk about my dad, it's gonna be really hard. But like there is a problem, and I often see women and and queer men having this conversation, but like this is a conversation that I uh would love for straight men to have amongst themselves. You don't have to be gay to talk about your feelings, you know what I mean? Like, and this is a thing that I come up against where it's like I'm not asking you to reduce your manhood to some version that you are gay, but I'm asking you to look at your manhood and be like, what is it, what does it mean to be a man? You know? And and I have straight male friends who talk to me about the bullying they get online. Like I have a friend who's straight, and he was like, One time I covered a Sam Smith song because I love the song, and and people railed him in the comments, like being like, Oh, you know, you're so gay. It's like, no, it's a good song, you know, like a good song, a good feeling. You're allowed to, as a straight man, you're allowed to have feelings, you're allowed to cry, you're allowed to be sweet, you know, and that is not that's what we want. I listen, I agree. You know, I have many straight female friends that are like, I want a man who's not afraid to like be emotional with me, you know. And that's not that's not the father I grew up with. Like that's not the man that I was modeled when I grew up. And that that's why when I heard the song, like it just resonated so much for me because if I could, you know, my dad passed 10 years ago, but if I could go back and tell him it's okay to cry and it's okay that you're struggling, and I love you no matter what, you know, like that that could have changed a lot of things for him. But you know, I don't have that opportunity to go backwards, but I can sing songs like real man and hopefully move people, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Well, and people with the same experience or similar experiences as us can have the courage to have the conversation maybe with their dads. And absolutely that's the thing that I hope for the song is coming up. It is coming up.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

And I really think it's this is the power of music to me. You know, I'm mesmerized by songwriters because you give us words when we don't have them. And I think that's what you do in in this song, and and honestly, in more than just this song, because both of you have so many incredible songs out. Your new album, Heartland. I mean, this song actually belonged on this album. Let's be real, it's perfect. But tell us about how Heartland came to be, because I think this is when you talk about your dad and how you grew up, and now this is a little bit of a reclaiming of the Heartland.

SPEAKER_06 14:55

Absolutely. I mean, it's more than a press quote. It's it's true. Like I I I have a feeling, I have a belief, I guess, that that instruments have ghosts in the bones. That's like a thing that I have always thought. Yes, and and one of the best things, I mean, moving home has been a complicated thing, but one of the best things is that I got to be on my childhood piano, and I got to play the thing that taught me how to play piano, and and the thing that my dad, you know, I remember he like gave me $20 if I learned how to play this one Jim Brickman song, which I still to this day like know how to play. Wait, which one was it? It's Angel Eyes, and I I can put my hand on any piano and it and it will automatically play. And I and I actually sound checked, I sound checked with my song Pretend Rainbow and playing Angel Eyes in Bridgestone Arena last week, which made me cry because you know that's a that's just hard for me to even think about the things that my dad it's hard for me to think about the things that my dad never saw, you know. Um but coming back home and touching this piano and heartland was the thing that came out, and I've never even thought of the word heartland. Like it's just not a word that I that I grew up thinking because the Heartland is not a word for people like me normally, you know. Right the minute that that that that I fell in love with a small town like came out of my mouth, that was the whole thesis to this album. So yeah, this album is both my album, Heartland, but it includes collaborations with friends, like so many wonderful people that I think represents what the Heartland is, which is diverse and interesting and a cornucopia of humanity. Do you know what I mean? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Um the writers you have on this album, the collaborations you have on this album, JB, you have Taniil Towns, Maggie Rose, Langhorn Slim, Katie Pruitt.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

Um it's a it's a dream list of people. And it's and it's a it's also I have said this to to Taniel and to Maggie and to JB, but JB is queer, so it's different. But but people inside of Nashville, like it means a lot when they collaborate outside the lines of like the thing that is traditionally the country, whatever. You know what I mean? I'm not I I don't do genre. Genre is like gender to me. It's just like it's a it's a playful thing that I'm exploring. But you can call this album whatever genre you want. It's a it's a beautiful blend of humanity, and that's that's the world I want to live in.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Gosh, you did a great job of describing that, right? I'm like, wow, okay, sorry, excuse me while I cry for a minute. Oh, um, because that is that is what it is. I haven't been able to tag it in a genre. Yeah. Listening to it. It's you can hear it depending on what your mood is. For me at least, it's been like in the moment it's in a country playlist. It could easily be in a pop playlist, it could be in a Broadway playlist. I mean, it fits everything. So you're right, it's humanity.

SPEAKER_06 17:53

When Make It Out Alive first came out, like it landed at the top of the folk pop playlist, and that was exciting for me. And I did like a gender reveal where I revealed myself as folk pop, and that was that was fun. But but when my revival came out, it was like at the top of a country playlist, and I was like, that's amazing. Yeah, and I'm not even I don't know when this is being announced, but I'm gonna say it. I'm playing CMA Fest for the first time, and it's like so exciting. I I think that we should be showing up in all sorts of places, you know what I mean? Because the world is better when you when everybody shows up to the table. You know what I mean? Like that's the world I want.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Me too. Me too. And so, okay, let's talk about these venues that you guys have been playing. Both of both of you are just like, you're just doing all sorts of incredible things around town and working on new music, and then you just played Bridgestone.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

We please tell us about this. What does it feel like for those of us who will never do that? I'm I mean that's me.

SPEAKER_06 18:47

I want everyone to play their hometown arena someday. You know, it's like I I the last time that I was in that I walked a stage in Bridgetone Arena was my high school graduation because my high school was across the street, Hume Fogg, and we graduated in Bridgetone. So like that was like the last time. And before that, I sang the Predators National Anthem when I was like 10. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

So when you were 10, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 19:15

Oh my gosh. But like, talk about reclaiming the heartland, like being on that stage, and I got to sing, they they basically asked us to sing songs that were challenged by the first amendment or challenged and upheld by the first amendment. So they knew I was going right before Janelle Monet, which is a crazy sentence.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Holy cow!

SPEAKER_06 19:34

And they they came to me and they were like, Have you heard This Land is your land? And I'm like, Of course, I know that song, everyone knows that song. And they were like, Did you know that there were omitted verses when the song was first published? And I was like, No. And they sent me the verses that were omitted, and it was like, it's the best lyrics of the song. And they were like, We want you to perform this song with all of the verses that were originally omitted when the song was first published, which was just amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And okay, so hang on, let me back up for a second. Because you make a good point. Your hometown arena, because you're a Nashville native.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

Truly.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

You are a true unicorn and third generation. So that's exceptional. Significant doesn't happen a lot these days. Um, but for anyone who's listening that's not in Nashville, Bridgestone is where the predators play, and it's the arena that if anyone comes here for a show, that's that's where you go. I mean, it's that or um Nissan Stadium. But Bridgestone is is iconic. I mean, it's just one of those things that wow, I mean, manifesting, right? You're like, me next, me next.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Oh, it's there, it's happening, it's already happening. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

But what what was the event?

SPEAKER_06 20:43

This was Freely Fest is a first festival of its kind for the First Amendment. So they got artists together to have a huge concert, but to remind people in the audience that like their First Amendment right to speak up and use their voice is is a bipartisan issue, you know. So it was it was a thing that everyone needs to remember that the First Amendment protects your right to freely express yourself, you know. Um, Nashville was chosen because it is a red state, but there's like lots of other things going on here that makes it sort of a a melting pot of more than just one side of the aisle, you know. And it it's tough because it's very clear like what my, you know, politics are and my version of humanity, but I also understand that we live in a world where everyone is here. And and some of that requires dialogue, and some of that also requires just freely expressing yourself, even when that is not the opinion of the person like sitting across from you. And that is okay, you know. Totally. And and so so again, singing this land is your land, like in that arena, it it was a reminder that this song is protected by the First Amendment. And songs are often the place where you're saying something like. Like when you're saying the lyrics of real man in a country leaning room, you have the right to express those things, you know. And and the First Amendment, you know, is something that we need to upheld, uphold and is important.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, absolutely. I did not I didn't know what the background of that is, and that's very I love that that happened. Yeah we need more of that. We need more conversations where people are openly talking about things and and you just to go back to Roman for a second, because you're right. I mean, this is where the First Amendment is is so critically important that we all get to express what we believe. And we don't always have to agree. We've gotten outside crazy, right? Everyone has just lost their minds a little bit. It's like, where did the conversations go? Just to have a good conversation. But I am curious because you guys also you played Real Man on the Opry Radio Station, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Yeah, we did WSM. That was really cool. It was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

What did that feel like to play that song for an audience like that?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I I was floored just walking in the building. Um, I never knew that I wanted to do something like that until it was happening. Yeah. And getting to meet with Aaron and just to discuss the song on live radio with people that are probably more conservative in a lot of ways, and then sing that song to a crowd of people that were um within the, you know, the little fishbowl area watching us talk about this song and and then sing it. I I mean it was it was mind-blowing because, you know, my parents could have been listening to that radio and and uh or that station, and then, you know, having that, having that honest conversation of if it's uh more about bearing arms and holding hands, if it's more about faking who I really am, I don't want to be a real man. Having that line, that's my favorite line in the song for me, hands down, always gives me an emotional response, always gives me some sort of um tie back to myself, reminding myself why I'm doing what I'm doing. Um, but having the opportunity to play it basically on the, you know, not the Opry stage, but Opri Radio is powerful. It's empowering for two queer men to be able to share this.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Not the Opry stage yet.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Not yet, but soon, baby.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I'm the first to buy tickets. I'm so there. It'll happen. But it'll happen.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

That that song, you know, again, I just think it's as we've said, it's a conversation for not just queermen but straight men and for people in general. To be a real person, what does it mean to be someone who has a heart for other people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:35

Um, and having my husband there, like watching us, like, you know, like it's like I'm very in love with my husband. You know, like we we are a nuclear family, you know what I mean? And Tennessee just literally renamed Pride Month Nuclear Family Month.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Nuclear family.

SPEAKER_06 24:49

And that's crazy because we are a nuclear family. Distraction. And and it's a that's a distraction. Distraction from actually looking at emotions. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, Governor Lee has a queer person in his nuclear family, and it's just it's sad to me that that is the thing you focus on when love is right there, when love is literally an option you can choose at any moment, you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Love's not lucrative sometimes, though, you know. That's right. It is to me, unfortunately. Oh, it is for us.

SPEAKER_06 25:19

Love is the most valuable thing in the world. And and that feels like discourse that has to be we have to continually remind ourselves that. Um, we have to continually be talking about that. That's what that's what singing real man on Opry Radio feels like is just a reminder that love and other ways of living also exist. And and it's we're not saying that ours is better than yours. Exactly. We're just saying that we also want to be at the table. And we're also like, we can't wait to sing real man on the Opry stage. Like, yes, can't wait. That feels great manifesting that, you know what I mean? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Um I think you made a really good point though, too. Like, that's why the chorus starts with a question, because it is a conversation. We don't want to just say, This is the way to live, this is better than your way of life. No, like, let's talk about it. What do you believe it is to be a real man? And what do I believe? And then how do we find the common ground within that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Well, and I you nailed that, by the way, because I do think it becomes a conversation that it's it draws us all in and allows us to be part of it, and it opens doors, and it's such an easy thing. I think it you, one of you posted a video that I just I've sent it to so many people on Instagram. It's like, look at this song, download this, follow them. Because it it does bridge that gap of us and them and everything in between, right? We've we've decided that everything has to have a side these days. Love is not about sides. No, it's the thing that brings us together. But I have to ask you, because I mean, Nashville is a pretty conservative town. We've evolved, right? I've been here 20 years, and when did you move to Nashville?

SPEAKER_03 27:05

I moved here in 2020.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Okay. And where'd you move from? What's your hometown?

SPEAKER_03 27:09

I'm originally from Montgomery, Alabama.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

And I moved um to Nashville in 2020 from Niceville, Florida.

unknown 27:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah. Wild. Such a wild time. Yeah. Wild time. Last time to move too.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Yeah, it was. I'm glad you did. Yeah, it was beautiful though. It was honest. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I think it was like a easy entry because the city wasn't fully open again, you know, until later in 2021. So it felt like an easy entry into life and the flow of things. And I found a really great friend group and you know, just uh got my roots, got my roots in.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Well, I'm not surprised you found a friend group. You are easily one of the likable most likable people in this. I mean, like you just exude happiness. Um, and it's so great. Uh yeah, because we met for like two seconds while you were still on stage, and I grabbed him and said, Who are you? Like, who are you? And can we be friends? And um immediately I was just like drawn to your energy. But I think the reason I kind of want to go back to your getting to Nashville and you chasing this big dream of music in Nashville, have there have to have been, I would say have there been, but tell me about the moments that have been like the hardest for you to say, I'm chasing something in a town that's not gonna accept this. Have you had those moments?

SPEAKER_06 28:34

I think that I think that the thing about Nashville growing up here, the reason I left is because that is uh it was hard for me to be myself in this place. And when I thought about coming back in 2011, a manager told me I would never make it in music as an openly gay person in Nashville, and I was not gonna hide who I am. You know, and that's that's 2011 and and things have changed, but I would but I would also say that it's still a confusing town when so many of the like the big institutions hold up sort of one version of of what that looks like, you know, and it it's it's it's still a bewildering thing to feel like Nashville is constantly pushing against this, like there's more, you can include more women in country, you can include more color in country, you can include more sexuality in country and you know, etc. Um, and that that's 2026, but that same thing also kind of lights a fire in me now that that I didn't have when I was younger because because I didn't have, I don't know, maybe age has given me uh less. Can I say fucks? You can say whatever the fuck is it? It's given me less fucks, you know. Um because like because I'm not going anywhere. I'm louder than ever, you know? Yeah. Um, so the thing that was hard is also kind of the thing that gives me fire.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you turned it into the thing that was gonna power you through. Where did you move when you moved away?

SPEAKER_06 30:08

First I went to Chicago for school, and then I was in New York and I was on Broadway, and then I went to LA and I was in LA for 10 years, then I came back here. Casually on Broadway.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Just casually dropping in then you were on Broadway. No big deal. JB and I are fine. We're fine. I love it. Um I'm sorry, go back. You were on Broadway.

SPEAKER_06 30:29

Yeah, I went to college, I went to Northwestern for theater, and and while I was there, I went to an open call for a show that was on Broadway at the time called Spring Awakening, which was um it had just won the Tony and the Grammy, I think, that year, and it was a rock musical. And I went to this open call thinking I was going for the tour, and they called me, they were like, You didn't get the tour, but would you like to do Broadway? And I was like, Incredible, cool. I guess I guess I'm going to Broadway.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

What did that feel like? Tell us everything I need to know.

SPEAKER_06 31:00

It was wild. It was wild because I had told my parents that I was getting a business degree.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Wow, girl. You business.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

And um, and a theater degree, but they were like, you have to get a business degree too. And I was like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

And were you actually studying business at all?

SPEAKER_06 31:17

I did go maybe to one class, but the classes honestly started at 10 a.m. And that was hard for me in college.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

It's still hard for me now.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

I I mean, but I went to high school, like I went to school and I must have gotten up early, but like the 10 a.m. class in college I couldn't do. So I they were like, you're getting a business degree. And I was like, absolutely. And then Broadway called and I just sort of like, and I had finished enough credits to like graduate, but not I did not finish a business business degree. But I went to New York and I was on Broadway. And then when graduation kind of came around, but I was already in New York on Broadway, my parents were like, I really want to see you like walk across the stage of graduation. So I flew back to college for graduation. Oh my god. And there was a weather thing, my parents actually got delayed and they didn't even make it. And they wanted to like see me do this thing. But I came back, but when I did, and they were like looking at my diploma, they're like, We're so proud. And they were like, Where's the business degree? And I was like, about that. About that. It didn't, it didn't happen. I'm also on Broadway. And I graduated, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

You did graduate. That's incredible, by the way, that you did.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I I don't know. I think I if Broadway called, I would be like, see yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I would have quit so quick. Me too.

SPEAKER_06 32:34

Yeah, I I mean my parents were, they, you know, they wanted, they were always scared. Like my mom lovingly, she would say this if she was in this interview. She like has always said, It is my passion and her nightmare. Oh my gosh. And it's like it's because when you love it, it's crazy. And the industry, the industry is crazy. You know, like it's it's I I'm really proud of the things I've done and that like I've seen JB do. Like it's a there are amazing things that happen, but it's it's hard and it's bewildering. And when you're a mom who is, you know, that going back to real man, this is why the first verse is something that really struck me. When when my dad was so um, you know, angry with me and and felt like I was so he he literally took me to Vanderbilt to get me tested because he thought something was so wrong with me. When instead it was just I was crying and needed to be held and loved, you know. But I would always go to my mom, you know, like because she was because she got it, you know. Um, and shout out to moms, shout out to my mother, Jackie Carr. Thanks, moms. Yes, um, but anyways, Broadway was cool, it was really cool. It was I mean, just casual better than college. It was better than college. I learned a lot, and one of the things I learned was how much I loved music, you know, like the show. Um, Duncan Sheik wrote the music, and he had that big song, I Am Barely Breathing, in like the 90s, and he is amazing, and I loved the show, and the show was a revolutionary show. Like uh that's you can look up Spring Awakening, it's a really cool show. But the music was the best thing, and I loved it eight times a week. I loved that score, absolutely. And and that, and I had always been writing music, but I was so scared to like share my own music, and it feels like a fever dream to like even relive this, but it's just like I always wanted to make music, that's just what I wanted to do, and Broadway sort of opened me up to like further dreams that I had.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Well in the end, I know and so when you moved to Nashville five years ago, six years ago. Almost six, it's all fluid after 2020.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

So, were you writing music before?

SPEAKER_03 34:49

I was, yeah. I mean, I've been writing songs since I was like seven years old. Okay, I don't even know what they sound like anymore. I have all my little notebooks of everything that I've written.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

I was in the church for a long time, and so a lot of them are probably like Christian and uh very like religiously focused, but it was uh yeah, I mean, that was always a passion of mine. And um I uh moved here in 2020 because I I just I was like it's either now or never. When COVID hit, it was a real wake-up call for me, and I was just like, I'm either doing it or I'm just gonna stay in this small town and never come out and never be myself, never write songs that really like mean something to me. And instead, I said, I can't do that. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

So in 2020, you just really said, I'm not gonna live my life for anyone else anymore.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Yeah, for anyone else, yeah, other than myself. Yeah. And that may sound selfish, but I think it's really just loving yourself truly and taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_06 35:52

Um I think it's a revolution in a in the way that you grew up in in a society that taught you not to love yourself. Exactly. It's a big old revolution to love yourself.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Exactly, exactly. Oh my gosh, name dropping my EP from last year. It's both crazy. But so good. Yeah. I it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

It's so, so good. And what are you working on this year for new music? Is there some new music coming? I need more and more and more.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

So I just I I have actually uh just had this, you know, brain blast due to a breakup. I've got like a plethora of songs coming down the pipeline. So um can't wait to share them. Should I not have said that?

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Is that okay? You looked at me so weird. I was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

Um say it. Yeah, I'm gonna say it, say it out loud. But yeah, no, I've I've got a ton of new songs that I'm working on right now, and I'm just really excited to to share them with the world. And um my uh I don't fully have everything uh lined up, but I think the title of the EP is gonna be See Yourself Out, which is uh just one of the tracks. But um, I've got a a new version of Love Myself coming out in June. Um, Love Myself Realigned, and it's gonna be a really beautiful tribute to that song and to that EP from the previous year. But yeah, I'm always writing, always, always coming up with some sort of melody and writing on me. I'm so happy that you're always writing.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Always, always, because every time I see one of your Instagram videos, I'm like more, more, more. I try to hold my myself back and not comment on everything and comment on everything, man.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Like, come on.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Commenting on everything, but I watch every one of them with just awe for the way that you write, and I think it's beautiful that this that you did bet on yourself and that you chose yourself. Absolutely. And because we cannot be good for anyone else if we don't choose ourselves first.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

I always wanted to do something in music. I mean, I started I sang my first solo in church when I was four, and my parents were both singers, and so it just kind of like um my family was just very musical, and so it's always been within me. I just thought it was gonna be the smaller version of evangelical church music for so long. And I just think I there's more of there's more for me than that, just that.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

So yeah, yeah, I like how you say just that because it can be all of that, it can be all of it, it can include that, it can be, yeah. But I think we and I I feel like this is something that happens a lot when you and and maybe this happens outside the south. I don't know. I grew up in the south and so did y'all, so that's all we can speak for, right? But I think when you grow up in a small town in the south and you don't fit the mold, yeah, then it's really difficult to get through that, to break through to the other side where now you can go out there and dream big. And so this doesn't surprise me that you had maybe a smaller dream for yourself. And now we're like, okay, play it on the Opry Radio Station, check. Opry's coming next.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Yes, arenas, all of it. I mean it's just calling they're calling because I think you did it, you did the thing that nobody does. You chose you. Yeah, and that's when the universe says thanks, we're ready now.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Absolutely. I think also too in 2016 I lost my sister, and her her whole life was such a huge example to me of what it meant to be like a true artist. She was a really accomplished ballerina, she was an incredible singer, she was an incredible uh visual artist. Um, I have several of her pieces in my in my apartment, but she her passing really emboldened me to be more of myself than ever before. That was 2016 and I didn't come out until 2021. But I started that journey of the internal work of who am I and who do I want to be? And you know, I think a life cut short, especially with someone so close to you, really makes you analyze your life and say, what do you want to what do you want to achieve and what do you want to do with what you what time you have left and not be afraid.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

So Yeah, what's your sister's name? Summer. Summer. Yeah. I feel like she's your angel.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Oh, she is, absolutely. I feel her with me constantly. And I hate that she's not physically here, very similar to how Morgan feels I know about his dad, and um missing these opportunities that we've been a part of together and apart, but I think just them being present energy-wise is felt. We know they're here.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

How did y'all meet? How did y'all become friends here in National? I was thinking about that.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

Well, I think we first met at Richland Farmers Market. I think you and Gabe were out walking, and I was with my ex and we were doing our little farmers market thing. Okay. But we were friends on socials for a while. We had connected on social media.

SPEAKER_06 40:39

But Montgomery Oh god. I mean, it's I'm gonna say it. No! Oh, please, you have to say it. It's it's he's from Montgomery, and and when he came to my husband and my wedding, my cousin from Montgomery was there, and he was like, Morgan, your cousin was my bully. Yeah, one, one, one, one of the bullies. There were many, there were many. Their football family. I I love them. I'm not, I don't need to name drop them, but it's just like I get it because that is exactly like they are clean-cut football, like, you know, that thing. And and different is just not how you would describe like that family, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

I went I went to a a private school where you went from kindergarten all the way to 12th grade with the exact same people, and so they they know you, and for better or for worse, their family in some weird fucked up way. And so once they had the opinion of me that I was they called it out of me so early that I was gay, but I didn't know it in myself, you know. Yeah, so I I appreciate it in in a hindsight, but at the time it was just bullying. It was just bullying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

So they didn't mean to call you out, they meant to call you something they didn't approve of.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

Exactly. But all they were doing was, you know, you know, regurgitating stuff that they were learning from their parents. Exactly. They learned it. So I think uh growing up in that space was it was interesting.

SPEAKER_06 42:06

And I also think he was bullied by his older brother, and I just know this because this is his family dynamic, but it's like when you're bullied and you like pass that on, like that's this is the cycle that we're talking about. And I think that also like moving back home for me, uh, while I've talked about what's hard, what's been beautiful, is like meeting people who are um like who have that southern bend, yeah, but who also are wonderful people who bring humanity, and that is exactly how I would describe JB. You know, it's like, and my husband is is a million percent. He's the best he's the best thing about life. Oh, I I need to meet him. He's the best he just looks like he's a cancer, he's he's a lover, adorable, yeah. The caretaker, he's a water, sweet human that has redefined what love even can be. And also it then comes back. I was thinking about this as we were talking earlier, like, you know, in the version of life that that we are living, where we we have a farm and we are doing these things that are like that are you know what the southern man does, but we're redefining what that even looks like. It's just it's you and your pink B suit. It's the best.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Okay, can we just have a moment for the pink? The pink shoe is so good. Your farm is called Fruity Farm. Fruity Farm. Which is the cutest. Yeah. Oh, I really want one of those. I have one. I got you. Okay, yeah, I'm so excited. I love a good hat. Um, Fruity Farm, such worth follow, you guys. Please follow on Instagram because it's okay. Is it Fruity Farm TN?

SPEAKER_06 43:33

Fruity Farm TN, yeah. Okay, on Instagram. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

But okay, tell us about this farm because the pink V suits are everything and the bees are everything.

SPEAKER_06 43:42

It's the best. I mean, we have we're growing fruit and we're gay, so Fruity Farm. There it is. And you know, it's like we're doing stuff with chefs, like specialty crops with chefs and stuff like that. But one of the other things that has happened, we we hosted Pride for Sumner County last year. Because nobody in the county that's an elected official would support it. And it couldn't be at um public space and it couldn't be in like institutions that even are affirming but couldn't take the pushback. So it needed to be in a private location. And somebody reached out to us knowing we had this farm and we hosted it on the farm and it was absolutely magical. We're doing it again. We're doing it in September because the weather's better. It's not just June, and we can now reclaim every month for Bride, you know. If you take June, we'll just take them, we'll take them all, you know?

SPEAKER_05 44:32

Boom. Um I love that.

SPEAKER_06 44:35

But Governor, are you listening? It's like creating community in spaces that I think community is super important. You know, and that it it's a farm, but it's also a meeting space. Like we have hosted dinners and and we got married on the farm. Like it's it's a magical space. And and I haven't talked about this a lot, but I I'm gonna keep talking about this story because we posted photos from our farm at Pride last year, and a uh brother and sister reached out to me. They actually grew up on this farm with their grandfather, and their uncle, who was gay, was actually kicked out and like and sent away. And when he passed, they actually sprinkled his ashes on trees that are on this farm, which is like I don't know what I believe, but I believe in whatever that is, that like that there's like there is this purpose and love like inside of this space, and and that's what Fruity Farm is. We're just trying to love people really loudly in a state that makes it hard to feel that love.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:36

Oh, I so come to Pride September 19th. Summer Pride.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Um what's it September 19th?

SPEAKER_06 45:41

September 19th, Fruity Farm.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Oh, I want to come.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Yeah, everyone's I'm already hitting my outfit. It was amazing. The vendors, the people playing.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

They made last year, incredible.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

The stage that they built. We built a stage.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

I mean, my husband built a stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

I stood there and was like, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

You know, everyone needs a videographer and a hype girl. And you're really good at both, I can see that. Yes, because the bee videos make me laugh because you're like, hi, I'm here, but also maybe not.

SPEAKER_06 46:10

Oh my god, this so bees. Here's a wonderful thing. Here, what's it like to be a real man is that bees are run by women. Do you know what I mean? Yes, and they are Queen bees. They can learn, you can learn something from that. It's not just the queen, it's all all of the workers, they're women. Do you know what I mean? No, I didn't know and they take care of each other. Like if a wasp comes into a beehive, what these women do, here's the metaphor a wasp comes into a beehive, and these women, these bees, just like, hey girl, surround her, and they flap their wings so loud they raise their temperature to a temperature that they can withstand, but that literally eviscerates the wasp. And then they clean it up and go about their day. Women know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Drop the mic on that one.

SPEAKER_06 46:56

That's your clue.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

And then women know what to do. It's really wild that we're talking about this because just last night I was talking with my friend and her fiance. And her fiance randomly starts telling us about sheep that women are in charge. There's a the head sheep is a woman, is a one. Like, yes, I had no idea. And then my friend Victoria said, Yeah, and the same with the bees. And I did not know this, but now I know it two times. It's weird that it's coming up twice. That's kind of weird. I like when things happen like that.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Maybe we can take a leaf out of their book, right? Elect a woman for president. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 47:33

We're working on it. Yeah, it's a shell. At least come to the farm and come be around the bees. And like, you know, it's a it's a really healing space. And I can't believe me as a kid, nowhere on my bingo card was like farmer, but it's it's absolutely perfect. It really suits you.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

You were not in Future Farmers of America.

SPEAKER_06 47:52

I was not. I don't know that I would have been let in, but I it's literally um, we are giving farmers right now. Like we are we are American farmers, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

And you have some restaurants in Nashville now that you're working with, right?

SPEAKER_06 48:06

Some chefs that you're growing some stuff for my Estela Vita and the Black Dynasty. Um I did some stuff with Butcher B, and I'm hoping to do something uh yeah, just did it with Joyland, um, hoping to do something with Case Inoko, because our pawpaw, which is pawpaw, this is not a podcast about pawpaw, but look it up. It's the only native tropical fruit in North America, which is, you know, in the land of America first, we actually have the most we have 760 pawpaw trees on our farm. And it's it's like banana, mango, and pineapple as a custard, and it's the only tropical fruit in North America that is native here.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

And I think Ophelia needs that for a new aguas fresca. Come to me.

SPEAKER_06 48:49

The harvest we have actually in September. So when you're there at Pride, you'll see the most pawpaw on the trees. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Okay, well, listen, I think what we've just affirmed is that we could talk all day. Absolutely. And I want to, but I also know that y'all have co-rights and magical things to create. So I don't want to take all your time today, even though I would like to. I'd like to sit here with you for like the next five hours. I would love it. We'll do that. Um maybe at costume. Yes. But before you leave us, I a couple of things. One, I would love for y'all to play Real Man. Oh, yeah. I want people to hear it. And um the other thing is I love to ask life advice. I love life advice. We all need good life advice. And this is a little hard for songwriters and sometimes easy for songwriters because I like it in three words or less. Like three words-ish, we'll say.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

So, you know, because then people remember it. My favorite is drink more water because it's kind of good for us.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

It's super important. It's super important.

SPEAKER_06 49:58

Mine would be there's always tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

Oh wow, yeah. I think mine would be choose yourself first.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Because then the overflow. Yeah. Because what? Because then the overflow is what takes care of everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

I love it. Thank you. Y'all are amazing. Okay, would y'all um play this incredible song for us and change lives? Let's do it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:46

Pushed me in the back. Think you even laughed when I crashed and cried for mom. And on the off chance I ever make it back home. I still hear your voice, still that little boy disappointing. And even though I'm grown and that ain't healthy, so why don't you tell me? What's it like to be a real man? Holding doors, holding tears in. What's it like to have a boy chain on every little thing you do and say? If it's more about dividing, fancy and both sides. If it's more about bearing arms than holding hands, I don't wanna be a real man.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

I wanna ask myself how I really feel wanna be allowed to say it aloud it out like it's nobody.

SPEAKER_05 52:01

But instead I'm in a straitjacket, knocking the move up, so enough for me to call the fact. Trying to fill the shoes, dad did it, dad did it, dad did it do. What's like to be a real man? What's the like to have a body train on every little thing you do instead? If it's more about dividing, then both sides. If it's more about bearing arms than golden hands, I don't wanna be a real I don't wanna be a real man. What's a beautiful man? What do I take on every little thing you do and say If it's more about the body, it's in both sides If it's more about bearing arms and holding hands If it's more about faking who I really am, I don't wanna be a real man.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

I don't wanna be a real man.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

You guys I just okay, it's again I'm speechless. It's beautiful, and y'all sound amazing together. And I also think I hope everyone in this world is lucky enough to have a friend like you guys clearly have an each other. Because you can tell, you know? Um and that's just to me, that's like this song is for everyone. It's not just more male friends. Yes, they do. Yes. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

The male loneliness epidemic is the issue that we're facing right now that we're combating.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Be friends, talk to each other. Yeah. I I just love like your friendship is just so beautiful to watch. Thank you all for doing that. I feel like those chills get me every time that song, every time. Um, I can't thank you enough for being here. You took a chance on some crazy girl on the internet, and I really appreciate it. Not a crazy girl.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

We love her, we love a crazy girl. I'm dumb. Crazy girl. Me too! I'm insane.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I love y'all so much. Thank you for being here. Um, I'm so excited for everyone to get to know you.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

Thank you for make mistakes.