You Can Call Me, Karen
You Can Call Me Karen is caught in the middle—too young for Gen X, too tired for Gen Z. Hosted by Manni, Steph, and Karen, three sharp-tongued friends raised on dial-up tones and Dawson’s Creek, the show unpacks the pop culture that shaped the ‘90s and early 2000s. With wit and candor, they dissect the contradictions of coming of age in that era, never afraid to channel their inner Karen if it means saying the quiet parts out loud. No advice, just real talk: a bold, funny, side-eye-laced ride through nostalgia, modern womanhood, and the messiness in between.
You Can Call Me, Karen
The Millennial Middle Child Syndrome
In this episode, we delve into the early cultural moments that shaped millennials, exploring nostalgia for past experiences and the contradictions of growing up during significant societal changes.
References for today's episode:
"The Oregon Trail Generation: Life before and after mainstream tech | LinkedIn" - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/oregon-trail-generation-life-before-after-mainstream-tech-morgan
Scott, Shaun. Millennials and the Moments That Made Us: A Cultural History of the U.S. from 1982-Present
Harris, Malcolm. Kids These Days: Human Capital and the Making of Millennials
Keywords: millennials, nostalgia, cultural moments, Billie Jean, generational trauma, Karen stories, cultural shifts, 1980s, social commentary, healthcare experiences, parenting, childhood, technology, social media, cultural influences, generational differences, childhood experiences, digital communication, pop culture
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Hey, karens, we're back from hiatus. Yes, I know you all have missed us. We have missed you dearly. We're so excited to get back into season three. This week we are exploring the cultural moments that have profoundly shaped who we are as millennials. I don't know about you, but I constantly long for a time when you had to wait in line for concert tickets, or when packed movie theaters were the only way to see a new release, when roller skating rinks were the only way to see a new release, when roller skating rinks were the peak social destination and when plot based TV like Dawson's Creek kept you glued to your screen every week.
Speaker 2:Remember sharing one computer with two or three other kids in grade school computer class, cheering each other on as you pioneered your trail, ate squirrel meat and eventually died of dysentery. Yeah, that's peak millennial, right there. However, in true Karen fashion, we are delving even deeper that's what she said and exploring this generational stereotype. We are breaking down how Billie Jean became the origin story for millennial contradictions, why the shift from latchkey independence to helicopter supervision messed us up and what it meant to grow up during an era when going online was a deliberate choice and not a constant state of being. If you've ever felt nostalgic for dollop sounds, family fights over phone line time or the ritual of checking if you've got mail, this episode is for you. We're explaining why millennials seem so contradictory to everyone else and why we are certainly the middle child of humanity. Longest introduction ever. Hello, sorry, but you know we add some stuff there to get through and we just really wanted to touch in on those millennial bones of yours.
Speaker 3:I loved every little tidbit.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like you're in 1990 again? Sure do, sure do. Well, that was the point. We just time traveled, but before we get back there, we're going to fast forward into 2025. Hello, I am here with my co-host, karen. Hey, stephanie, hello, good job you guys. Thank you All right. Hello, good job, you guys.
Speaker 3:Thank you, all right uh hello I'm gonna have to turn my mic down for that one you got it.
Speaker 2:That was. That was wonderful, uh. So before we get into our topic for today, we have been off for some time, so hopefully in those weeks where we were apart, you were able to put on your Karen colored glasses and get some Karen stories for our podcast.
Speaker 3:Karen colored glasses, are they red?
Speaker 2:I think they're like the um, kind of like Hulk Hogan glasses.
Speaker 1:I was picturing, you know, like the grandmas with, like, the red frames.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, red frames sally jesse rafael.
Speaker 1:What'd you say, sally jesse rafael?
Speaker 2:yes, sally, jesse good call back. Yeah, that's appropriate for today so appropriate for today's episode I was really proud of that I just glanced up at the time and, yes, we are recording, so I know that has happened before where we were in full conversation. So I had like kind of a panic, like wait, is this really happening? It is, it's happening, it's happening. Okay, so who's going to kick us off this week with a Karen story? Did you just wave your hand at me? I raised my hand.
Speaker 3:You probably were the sweetest little student. Oh my God, I was a very good student.
Speaker 2:Just by that hand raise, I could tell I could tell.
Speaker 3:It was so adorable, I actually got bullied into stopping raising my hand. I got made fun of so much. So, yeah, by middle school I had withdrawn. It was, you know, super healthy.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is kind of sad yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, welcome to my life.
Speaker 2:But that's why you make this salary you make now, and those bitches are working at McDonald's. I'm just kidding, dang.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, okay, okay, okay, yes, let me get uh to my Karen story. So mine is pretty brief, um, but I just had this experience, like a couple of weeks ago, where I had gotten um on a rental car, like shuttle bus thing, and so I had my suitcase and my work bag with me and I sat down and this man, like older man, said something. I was like what? And he was like, um, I thought I've never seen a purse so big. I thought that was your luggage, um, and I was like, oh no, and then, and then he like went on to say more about how big my bag was. My bag, by the way, was my work bag. It's a computer bag, right, it's a normal sized. Should pick it up right now.
Speaker 3:It's just a computer bag, but he like wouldn't let it go and I didn't need to correct him. It's like I didn't, you know. So I didn't say a word, I just kind of like did that awkward laugh and didn't really engage it. It was so weird, like the whole drive between the rental car place and the wait, were you sitting next to? Him like, because it was just, you know, like one of those like yeah, sprinter van things, and so it was like a?
Speaker 3:u of seating and he had sat down next to me, or vice versa. I don't know yeah yeah, it was super weird. It's like the quintessential, just like mind your own right.
Speaker 1:I literally was just about to say mind your business just mind your business it was so weird.
Speaker 2:So I know that was like very minor, but he did it and I was like I'm putting that in my notes for, yeah, it's like just shut up, yeah, and also like the explain myself yeah, and like I had a similar interaction like this a week or so ago when I was at the grocery store with a guy who was like I never buy that stuff. That as I'm like pulling it off the shelf and I'm like like did. I come to the grocery store to talk to you, am I on this spreader van to talk to you? Like what a weird way to want to start conversation with someone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and to me I I get um. This is like a foreshadowing to our future feminism episodes, but I get very um touchy about the assumptions that are made about women just in life in general. Like I was there for work, I was dressed as if I was there for work. I had a computer bag with my computer and all my work things in it. That is a perfectly normal set of circumstances, and if I had been a man the assumption would have been that that was my work bag. But this old guy could not comprehend that information and so he saw a bag that sort of resembles a purse, but a very large one that's big enough to fit a computer, and he couldn't process the fact that, like this is a computer bag she is going to work yeah, like why would you be traveling with a computer?
Speaker 3:it was like it was so it was just such a dumb comment I'm like clearly this is not a purse right and if it was also? Mind your business yeah exactly like. You don't know, maybe I'm a hungry lady and I need six meals with me at all times.
Speaker 1:Oh, you don't know me, you don't, you don't know my life, it would have been so much more.
Speaker 3:Um like, if you were curious about the size of my bag, you could have been like, oh, that's a nice bag, and then hopefully I would have said, oh, it's my computer bag. But instead you were just like rude and so I'm'm like I'm not get out of here.
Speaker 2:I've never seen something that big. Oh, that's what they all say. Well, I'm sure you don't hear that much, man. What about you?
Speaker 1:Steph. So my Karen story is actually very traumatic for me. Oh, um, for real for real. Yeah, like it in. It burns me up in my heart and soul and spirit Um so I do with yours.
Speaker 1:This is kind of a long story. So I'm going to try my best, cause I know that we yeah, we at 10 minutes. I know I tend to mind, but I feel like you should understand that last year, like 2024, I decided that I, as a grown-ass woman, should have a primary care doctor, especially because I have, you know, a lot of family history and stuff, and I wanted, I made a commitment that I would add that to the list, and so I did a search and found a doctor. I tried her out last summer. She was fine. Um, you know, she asked, like, asked a lot of questions, did a lot of follow-ups. She I didn't feel rushed in her office. She made some referrals. I I was like I'm not, I'm okay with her, so I'll reschedule, I'll schedule my next annual for the following year. So I just want you to know, like this, now this situation I'm not, I'm okay with her, so I'll reschedule, I'll schedule my next annual for the following year. So I just want you to know, like this, now, this situation I'm referring to is on my second visit to this doctor's office.
Speaker 1:So, um, I, my appointment was at 945 and I, as I tend to occasionally do, I was running a little bit late Occasionally do.
Speaker 1:I was running a little bit late and I got to the window and the window was closed and the person at the front desk stared at me through the window without opening it or saying hello or welcome, and so I did one of these like side eye things, like at like shifted my eyes and just stood there for a second and then she opened the window and she was like what's your name? And I was like Steph, you know, said my full name, and she was like okay, and I was like and she didn't say anything and I was like yeah, I know, I'm so sorry, I'm like five minutes late. And she was like yeah, I know, I'm so sorry, I'm like five minutes late. And she was like, yeah, five minutes. Um, my appointment was at nine 45 and I got to the window. Actually I got there at nine 49, um, nine or maybe 48, but I just said rounded up and every doctor walks into your room 25 minutes late, so who gives a shit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was like I'm so sorry. I didn't say I know I'm like five minutes late, so who gives a shit? Yeah, so I was like I'm so sorry. I would say I know I'm like five minutes late. And she was like, yeah and uh, we're going to need to reschedule you.
Speaker 2:I was like oh, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, um, I'm only.
Speaker 1:I'm only five minutes late. My appointment is at nine 45. And she was like yeah, but you were supposed to be here 15 minutes early and I was like the damn appointment for 9 30.
Speaker 3:I hate this. I know.
Speaker 1:I was like no, no, no, no, my appointment's at 9 45, it's on my calendar is 9 45, I've got I. No, no, I've, I am only five minutes late. And I was like I took time off work to be here today. I need to be seen today. So if that needs to be later today, make it later today, but it needs to happen today. So I need to be seen. And she was like I'll just go get my manager Her manager, good, you're like. I was like go get her, go get her what. Her manager comes over, doesn't introduce herself, doesn't ask me any motherfucking questions, and says we can't accommodate you today. And I was like. I was like no, I was like I need to be seen today, I am only five minutes late. She was like it is 10 till 10. I was like exactly, my appointment's at 945. And so if she joins in and says it's 10 till 10, then I really got there actually three or four minutes late Cause when she joined the conversation, it was still just 950.
Speaker 2:And I was like it's 950.
Speaker 1:My appointment's at 945. I need to be seen today. And she was like I was like your sign right here says 15 minutes. And she was like read it again. And I know no. Like I wanted to bust the window open and so I was taken aback. So I looked to the thing and it actually does say this message. I don't remember being there. This is my second time in the fucking office, right?
Speaker 1:I look at the message and it says if you do not arrive, arrive 15 minutes prior to your appointment, you may be asked to reschedule Ew and.
Speaker 3:I was like, I was like.
Speaker 1:I was like, listen, I'm five minutes late. How about you just take me back now and if you know the doctor needs to send me out? Like I don't get my full appointment, then that's on me, like that's fine, but like I should be seeing what the time you're spending having this is wasting time. This is my appointment time, let me come back. They're like no. And they started looking up appointments to reschedule and I was like I'll go somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're like, forget about it. My blood was boiling. They offered me an appointment when my family happens to going to be on vacation. So I was like I can't make that appointment. And now my blood is boiling but I'm angry and it's making me want to cry and I was like I gotta go. So I like stormed out and I left my keys on the counter and someone sitting in the office was like ma'am your keys and like for them to call me back. Like I was not belligerent, like for you know, for someone to say you know they weren't like well, staring at me.
Speaker 1:So I went back and I like grabbed my keys and then walked out and I just sobbed in my car. I called Steve, like interrupted it at work Cause I was just like. I just felt so helpless and I was like so then I weighed my options. I'm like do I reschedule? Like do I now do another search for a new doctor? And so I pulled myself together, came back in and I was like I need to reschedule. Um, if you look for another appointment, it needs to be on a Monday or Wednesday or Friday, like I, these are the parameters, especially if it's in the summer, and they offer me another appointment on a Tuesday and then tell me listen, listen to me again.
Speaker 2:Listen to me. I said monday, wednesday, friday they offered me.
Speaker 1:So then, um, anyway, that's, I was not seen. I just want to to to tell you that I was not seen that day and I was like this is, I was like I started to tear up again. I was not seen that day and I was like this is, I was like I started to tear up again. I was cause she said the next appointment will be till 2026. And I was like you go from June to July to 2026. She was like she, she's completely booked and I was like well, it looks like I have to find another doctor's office.
Speaker 1:I was like here's the thing that kills me. I was like have you ever been five minutes late?
Speaker 1:this said she's like if you really want me to answer that, no, I was raised to be early, my mom raised me to be early and she said this, said and so, and she was like and I'm never late, I tell my kids to show up to things early, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like and I'm never late, I tell my kids to show up to things early? And blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like and that right there is. The problem is that you don't have patience for people who run late. But guess what? You are a health care provider, so you're going to have a lot of different types of people who come into your office. Most odd doctors offices offer you a 15-minute grace period. A b, arriving early is reserved for people who need to fill out paperwork. Guess who had already filled out their paperwork.
Speaker 2:That's what that was. That was my whole thing with this story. Is that like? So you're just holding people to this arbitrary standard? It has nothing to do with the efficiency of the doctor's office.
Speaker 3:No, and they were like there's nothing about a doctor's office right Like these are.
Speaker 1:This is like if we see you that it's going to push everybody back five minutes and then we get customer complaints and the way that you don't understand how we have things set up, and I was like she's probably they're like she's moved on to the next thing. I'm like the next thing was me, so I should have been seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not like because I'm five minutes late everyone else shows up early and she can just start seeing them. Yeah, and what if I had a doctor's appointment? What if I and she delivers bad news or I share something that requires her to spend a little extra time with me? There's a lot of reasons why doctor's offices run late. I'm like my favorite doctor. My gynecologist is phenomenal and she takes her time with you. I know that when I get there I'm going to wait, but when I'm seen, she takes very good care of me and people continue to see her because of the care she offers. Right, and I'm like. I was like and I said you guys are not demonstrating care and you are an extension of her and I think that she would be really disappointed to see that you have turned me away for being five minutes late. I did also reach out to corporate.
Speaker 2:That that is. Uh, we were not expecting that.
Speaker 3:It's like the flashback to the Facebook story where she was like and I filed a complaint.
Speaker 1:I filed a complaint.
Speaker 3:It's ironic that my name is Karen.
Speaker 1:No, it's not I, just I mean like I was like the problem is that this, this healthcare organization that owns like, owns the doctor's offices or whatever. Whatever owns like every doctor's office in Westerville. So when I did another search, another doctor, I found that I was interested in going to, also as part of this organization, and I'm like. So I was like I need to know that this is not a corporate policy and that I won't be treated like shit all over the city of like where I live.
Speaker 2:Or that I don't. I now have to go to a 20 mile radius to get a doctor's appointment and I can't go to something in my backyard yeah yeah, so anyway, all right. Well, we could spend all day on this, but, um, I'm sorry that that did make my skin boil too, and I know how difficult it also is for people who are um unable to get off of work, like you and your career and your profession.
Speaker 3:So when you make your appointments.
Speaker 2:It is around your work schedule. Yeah, and that is like a greater um issue to systemically when we talk about you know um not to mention continuity of care.
Speaker 1:Like I was not seeing, my next annual appointment won't be until the fall. Um, and you know you, you don't care about my care.
Speaker 3:I should yeah, seriously.
Speaker 1:Like at least give me back and get my labs drawn. Like, do something.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, say hello when I come to the um window.
Speaker 1:How about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, a little kindness. All right, and those are your karens for the week. All right, bitches, I wrote it with an E in my notes too. Did you guys notice that I? Did I see that I see that Today we're diving deep into some millennial trauma. It's all about the trauma after that Karen story.
Speaker 2:We're discussing how specific cultural moments not just major historical events, but also actual songs, movies and experiences have literally shaped who we are as a generation. I gotta tell you this research was really challenging. It was fun because of my sociology background, but there was a lot available, like I think, more so because I'm in denial that I've been on this planet for almost four decades.
Speaker 3:Um oh my God, how is?
Speaker 2:there. So much out there. Oh, sorry, Pause. This morning I realized how old I was because I walked outside in my bathrobe with a cup of coffee in my hand down the path to pick up slippers too, that's the only thing that was missing to pick up our newspaper.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, when you live they still print newspapers. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have a paper boy, yeah. So I don't know why I'm in denial, because that was a pretty picture of being old.
Speaker 3:That was it.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, speaking of research, remember when we used to have to go through encyclopedias and how we used to actually have to read books and know index numbers in order to find what we were looking for. If that was the case and we were doing this podcast today, I think I would still be in the bottom of my basement trying to uncover what it was?
Speaker 3:Would we be doing it on tape recorders with the little microphone connected to it?
Speaker 2:Do you guys remember that, waiting for your favorite song to come on and then?
Speaker 3:play, play and record two fingers. Exactly right you're like yes, oh my gosh, I just tapped my desk with two fingers too, that's and then that was how we heard our favorite songs on repeat um god, wow, my gosh, my sister had this mixtape sorry we're getting way off, but it's but she had like the the tape recorders that would like like immediately flip and just play the other side, so you would just get the perfect loop of this. Amazing. Linda was serious yeah.
Speaker 2:I see how you got your editing skills where they started.
Speaker 3:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Linda, my tooth just hit the microphone. You hear that? Please For our YouTube listeners. Did you notice? We have new mics. We are something special, all right. So what are we talking about? Okay, I came across a specific book that's going to help us at least frame the first part of this conversation. It's called Millennials and the Moments that Shaped them. It's by Sean Scott millennials and the moments that shape them. It's by sean scott and, uh, one of the things that he talks about is how michael jackson's belly jean is basically the origin story for millennial contradiction. So I knew, with our co-host steph here, that that would be a great place to kind of like anchor this conversation.
Speaker 2:Uh, like I need to say yeah, yeah, so you're in for that. And then, uh, we're gonna layer in another um author, malcolm harris. He has research on how childhoods have become professionalized, which, as a teacher, educator and mother, I'm very like aware of this right now. But I was very curious about like, what does that have to do with us as millennials? You?
Speaker 2:know, and then, to close us out, we can't get away without talking about the Oregon Trail and the concept of AOL adolescence. So it's like suddenly all these weird millennials traits started making sense for me. So today we're going to break down three major cultural touchdown touchdown traits started making sense for me. So today we're going to break down three major cultural touchdowns.
Speaker 2:Touchdowns, touchstones, the Billie Jean contradiction, the shift from latchkey kids to helicopter parenting and what it meant to grow up during the AOL era. Because here's the thing we're not just products of 9-11 or the recession that's going around a lot on social media right now, but we are also products of being the first generation to experience certain types of media consumption childhood, organization for youth, sports and digital socialization. So are you guys ready?
Speaker 1:to get started. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Oh guys, I love Jim Carrey. Yeah, you do that Speaking. I had to put a. I had to put a 90s call back in for Jim Carrey.
Speaker 3:That was great. You did it.
Speaker 2:Also, it's very early for that for me, I feel like I've been up for 20 hours, rewind back to the scene of me with my coffee and my newspaper, exactly Okay. So something that I found interesting in Scott's book was how he connected the end of the Cold War and Reaganism to the rise of cultural wars. I feel like this is something that they talk about on either. You're Wrong About podcast all the time, which we love, and in our new system for hosting our podcast, we're able to link other podcasts that we like in our show notes.
Speaker 2:So, You're Wrong About. Is there Vibe Check? Is there? We're coming for you. Yeah, we're able to link other podcasts that we like and our show notes.
Speaker 3:So you're wrong about? Is there vibe check, is there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're getting fancy. So if you're ever interested in learning more about this like cultural war or what do they call it, the satanic panic.
Speaker 2:Yes, the satanic panic, but that was like the 70s, right 70s 80s, 70s, 80s, so like going into this time of the conservative movement.
Speaker 2:This book started with the fact that with or they're making the argument that without external enemies like the Soviet Union, conservatism faced what political scientists call the successful revolution problem. What political scientists call the successful revolution problem. So cultural wars in our country were birthed from these questions of how do you maintain a movement based on opposition when you've won, how do you justify continued mobilization without external threats, and how do you maintain power when your original purpose of fighting communism has been achieved. So the cultural wars became the solution for the conservative movement, creating internal enemies to replace external ones. I see your face, karen, it's like that emoji like yeah, mind blown, um, which allowed the conservative movement to maintain its oppositional stance and policy priorities even after the cold war was won. So this is what scott sees millennials as inherent, inheriting a fundamental, contradictory america, a society that claimed victory and greatness while simultaneously being at war with itself culturally, economically and politically, which some could argue was also with the boomers, with the Vietnam War.
Speaker 2:But the victory of the Cold War really solidified this. So, just months after Reagan's For the Sake of Our Children War on Drug Speech and the passage of the Missing Children Act, billie Jean drops in January of 1983, and we have this massive cultural movement where Michael Jackson is breaking MTV's color barrier while simultaneously society is supposedly becoming obsessed with protecting children. Because at the moment we are the world's superpower, we're the savior of, like you know here look at what democracy can do and we're also just beginning to bust in and integrate schools into our backyard, right Like we, like the. I don't think people really recognize that like the 1970s-ish was the start of that integration. At least in Virginia there was that. What did they call it? There was a movement in Virginia where conservatives weren't sending their kids to integrated schools. So really in the 80s is when we start to see integration start to take its shape and form. So that's the scene for millennials like us. This is what we're being birthed into. This is the earth that we're like. I came here.
Speaker 3:It's interesting, like I am thinking of 1984. It's 1984, right, where it's like Big Brother and there's like kind of three regions and like, depending on the day of the week, the government is like and we hate the North. Now, you know, and it's like and then everyone has to pretend like we didn't just be make friends with them yesterday. That's what it's, but it's in the calls coming from inside the house. It's no longer different countries. You know, right, right and yes, upsetting to hear all of this. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Oh, no problem, I'm glad that my research is helping. So here we are with MJ premiering the moonwalk while singing a song which is literally about a black man refusing to take responsibility for a child, during an era of the exact cultural movement when society was publicly declaring its commitment to protecting children right. And so here's. Like you know, the conundrum of like being a millennial right is like we are birthed into this, like contradiction of what America is. So I have some questions, but do you guys have any reactions to any of that besides what you were just saying, kieran, about like you hate the North now, or?
Speaker 1:you know, any other things before going into some of these questions, because that was a lot of like context, I'm interested in the idea that MJ is saying that he's not taking responsibility for a child because, like as the man said, the child wasn't his.
Speaker 3:So what was he?
Speaker 1:supposed to do.
Speaker 3:But was it him?
Speaker 1:I I believed him.
Speaker 3:We know oh my gosh, is this song not what I thought it was?
Speaker 2:is it? Is it not um? The song, I believe, is about, like groupies right claiming that yeah yeah, because, like um, the, there's this documentary, um on bad 25.
Speaker 1:um, I know that billy jean's not on bad, but dirty, dirty diana is, and um, there was a bunch of famous people being interviewed and I hate to bring this artist up. I'm'm not gonna bring him up A very well-known artist because he's a POS, was like. When I heard Dirty Diana, I was like thank you, michael, because you are putting bringing out to light that groupie situation and like the accusations and the hold that groupies have on, like famous people and stuff. And it made me think of Billie Jean, even though, like, there's that connection there and and so I kind of like I guess I kind of just like I kind of jumped into the narrative that was told by MJ and not really the story of this woman who's saying, yeah, it is yours, and not really the story of this woman who's saying, yeah, it is yours, right, you know, like you kind of empathize with the, the narrator, and not really that there's this whole other side to the story that I don't know well, that's, I think it's.
Speaker 2:What is the contradiction? Right is that like his story like actually did like rise in the song and that it's like the phenomenon, while also the conservative movement is trying to like say, yeah, we need to take care of our children you know whether they're just yours are not like you're the you know like we strong family values right and so I think that that's. That is the point, exactly what you're saying. It's like well, now we have this.
Speaker 2:The new perspective is actually MJ's perspective and more people are starting to lean into that, as opposed to these conservative values. Huh.
Speaker 3:That hit me. This topic is I don't know where. Admittedly, I haven't read your questions in advance, so I don't know which. Um. Admittedly, I haven't read your questions in advance, so I don't know which direction we want to take it, but I feel like we're flirting very dangerously with a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um so uh. Political, social, um topics that like. I'm a parent of an adopted child and I'm getting.
Speaker 2:My blood pressure is currently rising would you like to say more about that or not? Really okay, um, so I guess like the question that I have, because there's there's two other topics here so, um, who or what was the enemy in your household growing up? Um, you know how we're. We're seeing now, like, have you seen those things of like fox news is doing to our parents what they thought video games is going to do to us? Like, so who was your enemy?
Speaker 2:I have an answer to this question Communism crime, mtv drugs, rap music. What was forbidden?
Speaker 1:In living color.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Really Get out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did they ever say why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like homie, don't play that. We were watching it and it was all fine and good. And then Fire Marshal Bill encouraged some child to burn down a house and there was like an uprising in the news and they said this is inappropriate for children. It like influenced this kid and so my parents were like well, shut it down.
Speaker 3:I was not allowed to watch it after that wow, that is not what I expected, yeah.
Speaker 1:I I liked in living color oh yeah speaking of Jim Carey yeah uh, wow, my household was like um.
Speaker 3:it's funny because when you were like what was outlawed in your house or whatever, my brain went a totally different direction from like pop culture initially, which is a callback to like our religion and spirituality episodes. But I won't go that path because you triggered a thought I could not watch the Simpsons.
Speaker 2:I could not watch Roseanne.
Speaker 3:I could not watch Beverly Hills 90210, even though I secretly did and I could not watch Melrose Park, melrose Place yeah, we can tell you couldn't watch that. Yeah, and that one I didn't watch. But, yeah, I definitely snuck 90210 because, like, come on, that was a social phenomenon, I had to watch that. Uh, yeah, and that one I didn't watch. But, yeah, I definitely snuck 90210 because, like, come on, that was a social phenomenon, I had to watch that. Um, yeah, there was a lot of TV shows that my parents were like I just don't need you, I just don't need you watching this in hindsight, so I have literally never seen I can say this like hand to heart never seen. I can say this like hand to heart never seen the Simpsons, not a single episode ever. It's so weird.
Speaker 1:But I have seen it, but we weren't allowed to watch it, so I just saw it older, like in syndication, but when it was like fresh and new, I wasn't allowed to watch it. It's still going isn't it. Like yeah, they of the bit yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's the show that never ends. Like wow yeah, a perpetual fourth grader? Oh yeah, oh, I never even thought about that.
Speaker 2:He just doesn't age yeah, man, I used to have a bart simpson tape that I used to listen to on repeat. Like it was, like I had the bart simpson and the chipmunks and they had like songs and I I used to so nothing was really out loud in my house. Yeah, I was watching. I mean, I think I I watched like chucky when I was like yeah, I watched a lot of scary movies. Yeah, because I have older siblings, so like I think you know, but I think my parents were more concerned.
Speaker 3:Like scary movies are just shock factor. Remember, like in the 80s there was like Pet Sematary and Children of the Corn and just like all of the Amityville horror, like all those really cheesy shock factor things. But like there I think I'm guessing the Simpsons and Roseanne and certainly 90210 is very like sexually charged. The former, I have to assume, has something to do with either the politics or you know the undertones that my parents were like no, we don't need that infiltrating your little brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I I'm going to pause. Tones that my parents were like no, we don't need that infiltrating your little brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I, um, I'm gonna pause, I'm gonna put a pin in that, because that's gonna come up, I think, in our like aol discussion. Um, at least for me, but for for what? I don't, I don't. The only thing that I remember my mom being like is one day we were on, we were waiting for like church to start. We it was like one of those things where we went like early and we had gotten there early and I don't know why, because I don't know how this happened, because we were never allowed to change my mom's radio station. So I don't know if I can't remember if I was like playing it on the radio or if I had like my Walkman and I was just like singing it, but I was singing Red Light Special and I was like I love that song.
Speaker 2:She's like what she's like. Do you know what the Red Light Special is?
Speaker 3:And I'm like no know what the red light special is and I'm like now, you know, I'm not sure, I, I, I'm still not sure what that is, but I mean, I know what the words to that song are, I can do the math she's like well then, don't be singing it some of the songs.
Speaker 3:I know we've shared memes or GIFs or whatever about this, but some of the lyrics to the music that we listened to in the 90s. Now I hear it and I'm like, oh dear God, we were like little 10-year-olds singing Red Light Special as an example, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:It's hilarious.
Speaker 3:I mean, when it has a good beat, it has a good beat. Okay, I know, and you don't know what the words mean.
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't even saying the words right I'm like I don't.
Speaker 2:I was saying the wrong, it's wrong so anyway, the whole reason for bringing this up is, you know, and I think we've we've discovered this as adults is that like when we're singing like heal the world by michael jackson, and we're singing, like some of these songs, that like they were trying to like push out about how great and wonderful america was, underneath things really were not going that great. You know, we that started the war on drugs, that started like the um private to see privatization of the prison system, which actually counteracted the whole family values conservative movement, because more black men were taken out of the home and placed into prison. And so we, as millennials, while we, you know, were introduced to these like concepts of, like look at us, we're the world leader, we saved everybody, we, um, you know, have this whole like a culture and approach to family values, like what was really actually happening in our own homes was different from that. And so that um is something that categorizes. I guess I don't I don't know the right word, but when we look at millennials today and people talk about who we are as a generation, that contradiction is one of the major characteristics. I guess is a better word that the research here is we should look into these things that they were born into, right of what we as adults in society like presented to them, um, and then moving us along to uh kids these days.
Speaker 2:This was a book by malcolm harris and um he says that in kids Days. He argues that millennials experienced a fundamental shift from the latchkey kid independence of the 1980s to professionalized childhood, which I thought was like such a wild term, but I see it now, and this transition profoundly shaped the generational identity as well. While Generation X grew up as latchkey kids with unsupervised after-school hours filled with self-directed activities and television, millennials became the first generation to experience systemic adult supervision and optimization of childhood time. Yeah, I know, supervision and optimization of childhood time. Yeah, I know, I, I and I have thoughts about this, but one thing that I found in my research that was really fascinating is how they um one of my articles uh talked about how gen x was portrayed in movies versus the millennial.
Speaker 2:So like Gen X was always like the problem kid, like the older teenager who was like rough around the edges, where, like, the millennial was always so like innocent, and that was like the perception of like a latchkey kid versus like these new, like innocent millennials who like, need to be like who need to have this optimization of childhood time that they were talking about. But really, what caught my eye was home alone Cause that is one of my favorite movies not even holiday movies.
Speaker 2:That is like one of my favorite movies. We just got back into it.
Speaker 3:This Christmas Cause Max is like loving it. It's so good, so good.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that it said and this is probably why Maxwell was into it is that it represents the fantasy of unsupervised childhood, which we don't have. So the film celebrates Kevin McAllister's independence and resourcefulness, while simultaneously highlighting parental fears about children left to fend for themselves. So the shift from latchkey culture to organized after-school programming represents what harris calls the professionalization of childhood. It's fascinating, I know um. So here's his most brutal insight, though and we talk about this with millennials too as a characteristic of the participation trophy. So participation trophies weren't about making kids feel good, they were about creating evidence of participation in the new childhood economy new childhood economy, uh-huh yeah.
Speaker 2:So like that's where you know, this whole shift onto after high school you have to go to college started to really begin and so people were noticing like well, our kids, when we started to take away after school time for kids and play and we started to build in like youth sports and trophies and competition, yeah, so it's, it's fascinating.
Speaker 3:You're like generating so many thoughts for me because, like we're getting close to summer I know you guys are probably already on summer, but our school feels like-.
Speaker 2:We are June 18th or 19th. Oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:We're like the 12th or something.
Speaker 1:I'm on summer. Yes, you're free, yeah.
Speaker 3:For our listeners. We're recording this one a little bit early, so it's before school is out for some of us and we're talking with all of Maxwell's friends' parents about, like, what are the kids doing for the summer? Because they're too young to just like stay at home. Yet and this one, the one camp that we've decided on for Max for the summer, is one that's like a little, it's completely less structured. Apparently. The kids, it's kind of like choose your own adventure, so they have different stations of things and just free play and the kids get to just do whatever they want, essentially within the boundaries of this camp. And in the past we had done the YMCA, which is much more structured. It has like you can sign up for different topics for different weeks and you know there's organization to your day and anyways. So some parents have been saying like, oh, this one that you're going to I think my child needs more structure. Dah, dah, dah, dah.
Speaker 3:And I'm like I mean my child has ADHD and we're you know like theoretically, on paper he could use some more structure, but I kind of love that. It requires him to use his like I was going to say executive functioning skills. I don't know if that's quite right, but, like you know, he gets to decide how he spends his days, and he doesn't normally get to do that during the school year, and so I think that that's a nice break from the norm, you know? Um, yeah, so that feels very current.
Speaker 1:This is interesting to me because, um, when I was younger after school, cause you know, um, when I was younger after school, cause you know, I, both my parents, worked. So I went to a daycare center, um, but for a school age program. They had a school age.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the but like their bus or van would pick us up from school and we'd go there for a couple hours, and then my mom would pick us up when she got off work, and so they had a summer camp so we could go. So for school age kids we did that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that my parents would drop us off in the morning because something that you mean, in some days there'd be a field trip, we go to the pool, some days we would, you know, there would just be. But there was a lot of, there was a little bit more freedom, but it was pretty structured. But then that ended at fifth grade. So my parents were like, uh, sixth grade, seventh grade, is a little young to just be home by yourselves, and so, um, the city that we lived in had like a park center, rec like, but it was basically like they had high school kids running like a camp and we would just get dropped off at a park, like a playground, and you would just be there all day and they, the camp counselors, would organize games and stuff. But for the most part you're just outside all day. We were able to walk and get lunch, like we would go to mcdonald's or we would whatever. There was like really like not even attendance, but like it was kind of yeah, and now you have like apps.
Speaker 3:You're like tracking your child's every moment definitely.
Speaker 1:I remember we would walk and find a creek and you know, be out and we could. So many things could have happened, but like we just did whatever we wanted and then we had to check back at a certain time and then my parents would pick us up from the park and that's what our summer was. Yeah, um, and that's kind of. I'm kind of thankful that I had like a couple summers where there was a lot of freedom and we were just outside playing games and and stuff, and I did have that structure of summer too. Um, but I kind of got to experience both, which is kind of cool yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I was, for all intents and purposes, a latchkey kid because my you know, my our circumstances were different. So my mom worked um an hour away and that was like generous if there wasn't traffic. So everything had to be done the night before because she couldn't come home, drop off lunches, like, like give us the key if we locked ourselves out. Like she couldn't do that because she was so far away and she was, quite frankly, tired and didn't you know?
Speaker 2:was like I'm not um, and my siblings are 12 and six years older than me, so you know their schedules started to differ, and so I, yeah, I, I remember like I would watch MTV before school, pack my lunches and get myself on the bus.
Speaker 2:You know, and we would come home and the expectation was that I did homework before I went outside with my little friends and played and, um, you know, I, I just like that, that was what I thought was like everybody else was doing, and so I think that there's also something about circumstance here.
Speaker 2:Uh, I think, with what you guys are saying, what I'm seeing currently with parents and that term helicopter parents is, you know, yes, it's starting earlier and earlier and earlier. The professionalization of childhood, and that's why I was like this is really fascinating to me, because we were not I didn't think I grew up this way, but maybe, like my peers kind of did have like a little bit more of a like structured, organized after school time, but I, I don't, I don't know, and so that's what's like. So interesting to me is like how we got to this moment in time where I'll take Millie, for example started rec basketball in March and we get an email in May. Millie is in second grade. Started rec basketball, started that's when the program was offered for started in March and we get an email in May here's the tryout schedule for travel. Oh my gosh, I'm like she just learned how to dribble a basketball people.
Speaker 1:Why are we doing?
Speaker 3:travel I can't. And also like um, I had this idea in probably in the March timeframe to maybe get Maxwell like on a T-ball team for the summer. He's never done baseball but the kid can just like throw, so I'm like as much as we've avoided baseball, cause it's a little boring when they're young.
Speaker 3:I was finally like you know, maybe just a little rec league, like a like park district, whatever you want to call it. Um, and I swear this was like February or March timeframe. I was trying to find, like what are the options in our neighborhood? And everything was full for the summer. For the summer I was like I hate, I hate parenting. Now I just you can't just sign up for something and then show up the next week. It's like I have to plan his life a year in advance If I want him to get in. Like the summer camp I was talking about the day that that sign up opens up. If you're not signing up, you're not getting in. Yeah, I can't stand. I just can't stand it.
Speaker 2:It's so annoying it's, it's hard and I think and like the reason why this topic interests me is because it's like where does that even come from? You know like what STEM did, and I loved this research that said like it was all from that, if we don't start them early, early, early, then they won't be able to have a college experience or an adult experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just I think the internal wound that I feel, and I think I'm hearing you say, is that like it's all based from capitalism and competition right and again goes back to what we started with, with that whole idea of we no longer have an external enemy. We always have to fight somebody and um, now it's internal enemy where we're fighting, like each other, for space resources and um, it just creates this whole false narrative of like, of lack and scarcity as opposed to abundance, which play and like a childhood of like wonder provides.
Speaker 3:You know okay, so the other thing. Sorry, I know we're yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to get to AOL.
Speaker 3:The, the something that I have been talking about just recently with some of our friends who have kids of a similar age is in the state of Illinois and I think, four or five other states, we have the highest age. We have like a state law that says you cannot leave a child unsupervised and it has some caveat for like an unnecessary amount of time. There's some vagaries around this, but under the age of 14. Whoa, right, 14. Degrees around this, but uh, under the age of 14. So, wow, right 14. So, like I have to have my child in some form of child care which, by the way, is not cheap because bob and I both work until he is 14 years old.
Speaker 1:No, I was I can't.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm, my sister used to watch my, like my sister's, three years older than me. We used to go home from school, starting when she was maybe 10 or 11. I think she she went like for a year by herself before my parents took me out of daycare and we started going home together by ourselves. But like 14, I mean that's nonsense. We're not teaching our children any life skills by setting that requirement and you're costing so many families so much because we don't all have the resources that I'm lucky, lucky enough to have, you know to to have childcare after, or like a family that can watch them, or whatever. You're like asking people to choose between careers which you want everybody to have to contribute to this economy, but childcare is more expensive than a lot of jobs in this country. So like what? What? This?
Speaker 2:reminds me of, like, the trad wife conversation that we had when people were like you know. Let's just go back to the time when, like you know, people stayed home and did all these things and it's like, yeah, but like your grandparents and your mom weren't really watching you, you were out like in the woods.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Messy, you know, like it's not the same. The woods, yeah, that's right, messy, you know. Like it's not the same. It's like in this, in this age, it you, the, if you stay home or whatever, whatever sacrifice you're making to either work or stay home, you're now. You now need a car. You need, you need to like uh, be able a license to be able to like take kids to all these different sports and stuff. It's not the same. The situation is very different than uh before. So, like again, same thing with like a 14 year old taking care of themselves, like it's a little different than you know, like before they're, they require a little bit more. It's. That's that that's odd. And plus, what an art, what a like random number. Yeah, okay, can I move us on? Yes, thank you. Okay, so we can't get out of here without talking about AOL and dial up uh, our last author on the plate up at bat maxwell, I wish I had one of those dial up sound clips right now and you're a little.
Speaker 2:It's so distinct for us. If I played that sound for brielle, she'd be like what is that? Um? So anna garvey, author of the Oregon Trail Generation Life Before and After Mainstream Tech, calls this the last gasp of a time.
Speaker 2:Before sexting, facebook shaming and constant communication, the AOL experience was characterized by ritualistic connection, which you were just talking about waiting for dial up to connect, hearing you've got mail and navigating chat rooms with age, sex, location, queries and this didn't really happen as much in my household, but I know it happened in others.
Speaker 2:Um family negotiations that's saying it nicely family fights over phone line usage. I remember that um episode on Full House when DJ wanted her own phone line or like wanted her own like they had to do something with like the phone line dividing up. Anyway, unlike today's constant connectivity, aol adolescents required intentionality and patience. You had to choose to go online, wait for it to work and knew your time was limited by family phone line access or hourly connection cost. This created a generation that understands both the profound social power of digital connection and the value of digital boundaries. So I have some questions here, but the reason why I was putting a pin in the conversation about rosanne and um, what you know were forbidden in your household is because right now brielle is of age where she is requesting that she have social media, and because of my understanding of AOL chat rooms also predators on the internet, also my navigation of social media right now it is a hard no.
Speaker 2:It is a hard no for me until she's probably out of my house and she can get it herself. But of course her argument is but everybody else has it and I pull a blanch but I'm not everybody else. So this is interesting to me in that I am tech savvy enough to navigate social media and know it, and also to know the importance of disconnecting from your device, and so I don't know. I just I really wanted to like put this into the conversation because I think that that's something that is a value of being a millennial parent right now, and I am appreciative of my experience of being um, being one of the pioneers of social media and technology, in this capacity to have an understanding of the boundaries to set within my own family, you know, know.
Speaker 3:I do think, like I think I texted the two of you, or maybe our um Bob text as well, when Florida passed a law, I think last year that was um outline the use of social media in children up till, I think, 14 or 16. And I remember I read that article like three times because I was like, wait, I think I agree with this, but normally Florida's passing stuff that I'm like.
Speaker 2:what geography is this Correct?
Speaker 3:I and I think I texted that exactly to you guys Like I think I'm on side with this one, right, but it I mean I think that that type of legislation is so important because peer pressure is real and you don't, as a parent, you don't want your child to like feel different, you know, or like go through that I mean I don't care in this in this topic for sure, but you do want the best for your you know, like the best childhood, the best experience for your um children.
Speaker 3:I remember like we couldn't afford Abercrombie when I was in high school and all the kids were wearing Abercrombie and like I just felt different, you know, and like I don't want my child to have those feelings. I know at some point they always will. But this is one of those things where I'm like, yes, legislation would be amazing, because for their brains, for their development, for their self-esteem, not having access to social media is so important and controlling that on an individual basis is not going to happen Like we see. You know so many kids are on social media and you see like the horror stories of what happens when it's abused. So, yeah, I just hope our government and our legislation catches up to that sooner. This is just the lag of our slow government being responsive to a rapidly changing technology environment.
Speaker 2:And it's scary. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's my soapbox.
Speaker 2:I liked here too, where it was talking about like simultaneously hyperconnected and nostalgic for disconnection. Like I like that we, you know, had to experience that lag right Of. Like here's the dial-up.
Speaker 3:Here's how much it costs.
Speaker 2:Right. There was like also like the like price you have to pay to be on it longer, and how there are conversations I don't know if it's happening in legislation or not happening in legislation or not, but conversations about maybe having a time where social media is just not available, Not available. That site shuts down at 10 o'clock no matter where, like 10 o'clock in your whatever region, and then everybody is disconnected from it at a certain time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like the stock market. Yeah, you can it at a certain time. Yeah, it's like the stock market, yeah, you can only trade during certain hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think this is like an entire episode that we should do on this topic. Like, I just feel like there's so much to unpack with that experience of growing up in a time where we didn't have constant connectivity to being now, like you know, as we're talking, Bob is like shooting me texts about whatever it is that they're doing and, yeah, and just like that constant distraction or my watch now buzzes every time somebody is trying to get a hold of me and and I remember when I first got the watch, I was like this is causing me so much anxiety Just the constant feeling of you know messages coming at you know multiple ways. I'm like email on my computer and my watch is telling me something and then my phone is telling me something else and I'm like this is overwhelming.
Speaker 2:So I don't know. I think I saw a tiktok yesterday of a guy who was like don't expect me to respond in the group chat. Like you know, he's like sometimes I'm the only one here, you know, and it's like so true, like I'm the only one one here, like I'm I am, I'm on 25 different group text messages, like I can't, I'm the only one working right now. You know I can't respond to all of these immediately. So like, just like, have grace, you might get a response in 48 hours, 72. It might be within the week.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 2:I know we talked about it before as well. Like the um unread, you know, like Mark is unread.
Speaker 3:I love, I love that and it's since our conversation about that. It's been very empowering to me. So I just like, if I don't feel like doing it right now, I'm going to. Mark is unread, and if it comes three days later I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:That's just my life and you know how important you are wow, she hasn't responded to us I was gonna say immediately so I guess that means we're not very important on her priority list so we've been let's just close it out and then we'll go fuck group.
Speaker 2:no, um, no, all right, ladies, do you have any ahas? If not, I have a fun game.
Speaker 3:My only aha was that I thought today we would be talking about Britney Spears, justin Timberlake, trl, full House Saved by the Bell. Yeah, like that's what I thought today would be, and you made me think really hard on a Sunday morning. So it was. It was really good conversation. That was just not at all what I expected for millennial porn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love.
Speaker 2:I have a comment about that.
Speaker 1:but yeah, kind of reflecting on, um, like our technological evolution, you know, like from to starting the conversation about being dropped off at a park, to um this like constant collection, connection and um, like the constant messages that we're getting all the time, like even you know cell phone, like I didn't have a cell phone until my freshman year in college and it was um you know T9, you know like yeah, like yeah, I think okay for the kids listening on it.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? And um, you know. Now you know, my three-year-old is asking me to play videos on my phone for her and um, and it's like a whole computer, like at your fingertips.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. A whole computer that we couldn't even imagine you know was capable when we were young.
Speaker 2:Why you didn't need that big ass bag at the airport.
Speaker 1:But, it's just how cool that we, we millennials, have gotten to experience it all Like I feel kind of lucky.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's kind of my confessionals, Like I feel like I'm really thankful, Like we had just those digital cameras in college, Like we, you know, it wasn't like the polished pictures that these young college kids have now. No, that wasn't our experience and we got to act a dang fool with a little bit more anonymity and, uh, just feeling kind of fortunate that we were born when we were born, like, yeah, I love that timing yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 2:That's, I was like I. We really are like the middle child. Like you know we were, we were just, we were just right. We were right in the like cusp of where we're too old for Gen X, and I mean too old for Gen Z and too young for Gen X.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's why being a millennial is the shit.
Speaker 1:It's the shit.
Speaker 2:But toaren's point of like yes, I, I went into this research like wanting it to be an episode of that, but I also wanted to honor like what we do here on our podcast, which is like a great way, I think, to like segue out of like this episode, is that, you know, we do dive deeper into these concepts and so I was trying to figure out what is the meaning behind like our fascination and our attachment to these pop cultural icons and these cultural moments. And so when I stumbled across the cultural wars started in 1980s by the patriarchy and capitalism and quote-unquote democracy, I was like, oh, this is what you can call Me, karen is all about. And so the way that I would also say that maybe we do each season, we come back with a little nod to millennials because we are just scratching the surface of the childhood.
Speaker 2:We haven't even gotten to the boy band Britney phase of millennials and then the Obama era of millennials. Like I said, we've been here for some decades.
Speaker 1:We've been here for some decades.
Speaker 3:We are history, now we are history.
Speaker 2:now People are writing books about us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's weird, so weird.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, all right. Well, thank you all for joining us this week on. You Can Call Me Karen. We are so excited to be back. We are so thankful for your listenership. Please do us a favor and if you like this show, please share it with some of your friends, particularly your millennial pals.
Speaker 2:This is a podcast that talks about everything that we are experiencing right now in our age, and we don't offer advice. We just kind of, you know, just go off of what it is that we're experiencing in the moment, and we hope that you enjoy our conversation. So to show us that, please like, subscribe and share. Comment on Instagram at youcancallmekaren underscore pod and you'll find us on YouTube at youc call me Karen, underscore pod, and you'll find us on YouTube at.
Speaker 2:You can call me Karen and with that it's a wrap. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:Bye, and a fox and a green fox and a fox and a blue one, and a fox and a yellow one, and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.
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