Apple of Her Eye Syndrome

Summary

In this episode, we delve into the cultural phenomenon of Dance Moms, exploring its impact on reality television and the competitive dance world. We discuss the dynamics between the moms and their children, the intense drama surrounding competitions, and the pressures of parenting in a society that often prioritizes achievement over childhood play. The conversation also touches on the absurdity of some situations depicted in the show including parental pressure and the toxic environment fostered by competition. We discuss the impact of reality television on children, the cultural phenomenon surrounding the show, and the ethical implications of exploiting young talent for entertainment. The conversation highlights the emotional toll on both the children and their parents, as well as the broader societal issues related to parenting and performance culture.

Keywords

Dance Moms, reality TV, Abby Lee Miller, competition dance, parenting, helicopter moms, childhood development, fashion, drama, emotional impact, Dance Moms, reality TV, parenting, competition, artistic integrity, cultural phenomenon, toxicity, child exploitation, dance, motherhood

References

Dance Moms - season 3, episode 12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG_gPBkYeXA

Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!

As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.

Chapters

• 0:05 Dance Moms Phenomenon Set Up
• 2:20 Hosts Banter And Warm-Up
• 4:41 Vacation Karen On A Boat
• 12:15 Parenting Pressure And Food Panic
• 19:56 Why Dance Moms Still Pulls Eyeballs
• 22:54 The Pyramid Explained
• 28:10 Candy Apples Rivalry And Machismo
• 33:35 Makeover Drama And Groveling Moms
• 39:20 Kids’ Schedules, Overinvestment, And Play
• 45:27 Competition Day And Rosa Parks Routine
• 52:00 Aftermath, Eye-Rolls, And Sign-Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:05

Little failing and the yellow one and the little on July 13th, 2011, the dance world was forever changed with the launch of Dance Moms on Lifetime TV. Abby Lee Miller, the infamously harsh, loud, and controversial dance instructor, introduced viewers to a world of jaw-dropping intensity and competitive drama that few had ever seen up close. Dance Moms pulled back the curtain on the cutthroat universe of competitive dance, spotlighting the so-called helicopter moms willing to do absolutely anything to help their daughters steal the spotlight. The show's combination of explosive conflicts, which some might call draw dropping choreography, and backstage power struggles instantly hooked audiences, becoming a pop culture phenomenon almost overnight. Thirteen years later, Dance Moms continues to rake in revenue and fascinate viewers. The series is now available on major streaming platforms, including Hulu, Disney Plus, Peacock, Amazon Prime Video, and YouTube, providing its lasting influence in the reality TV world. Today, we dig into one of the episodes that made this series so iconic sharing our reactions, our love to hate relationship with these wild storylines, and why Dance Moms remains one of the most ridiculous and fascinating reality shows on television. It is June 29th and hot as hell here at New Burke, which is so funny because I am also joined by two steamingly hot and smoking ladies. Right, Karen? Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40

Hi you two staff. Hello, everybody. I'd love to be called Smoking Hot.

SPEAKER_04: 2:49

Oh, wow, wow, Fireman. Called the Fireman.

SPEAKER_05: 2:55

That was like the whitest version of Lil Wayne. I didn't even recognize it.

SPEAKER_04: 3:03

Wait, remember that clip that went viral on YouTube when the girl uh sent a message to Lil Wayne? Do you know what I'm talking about? And like her mom respond, like she responded back like Lil Wayne was. She did a clip where I'll have to, I'll have you guys know what I'm talking about. It's this girl, and she's like sharing a DM that like was an exchange between her and Lil Wayne, and like how she responded back to Lil Wayne was like something like so white. And her mom, who is a boomer, is cracking up. Like, this is what you said to Lil Wayne?

SPEAKER_03: 3:41

And they're just like amazing. I can't believe I haven't said that to you guys. It's so funny. You should say genuinely first time I'm ever hearing.

SPEAKER_04: 3:50

Oh my god. Anyway. Um, so that's not why we came here today. Not to talk about Lil Wayne, although one of my favorite songs is DJ Manny Fresh. I wonder why why? Well, no. Okay, so this week's episode is bananas because of the drama that is Dance Moms. Um I know we are eager to get into that. As I was doing the intro, I was having a really hard time focusing because all I kept seeing was Karen being like shaking her head.

SPEAKER_02: 4:25

Yeah, if you're watching on what is it, YouTube, like every word you said, I'm like, no. So much. I can't wait to get into it.

SPEAKER_04: 4:34

Um, but before we talk about our reactions to the series, you know what we gotta do first. Tell me who you calling Karen. Yes. Well, that little shoulder shimmy and smirk was, and this is why we said she's so hot, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_02: 4:55

Um, well, on that lovely note, I can get us started. I have to like check my notes because I have been um I I was on vacation last week and there were a lot of Karen moments, and every time there was a moment, like someone, either Bob or like the other family we were with, would be like, Karen! Shut that down. So um there was a few. Uh one of my favorites was we were on a little, we were in Amsterdam and we were on this canal tour in the city, um, which if you've never been, it's like uh it's like so magical and it's beautiful and charming. And on this little tour, there was like these two women who were our tour guides, and they were very clever and witty, and also giving us just little tidbits of history and whatever. Um, but it was like kind of half talking, you know, like half tour guiding, and then just half like floating along the river and enjoying the views. Um, and when they were the one woman was like talking about some history where wherever we were, clearly it made an impact because I can't remember it at all. But this old lady was sitting kind of like towards the front of this little boat, and the tour guide was standing kind of in the middle and facing the other direction. And so this old lady was like, excuse me. She was like, Can you please ask these people to be quiet? Uh there was a little, it was a little boat, you guys. There was probably 15 to 20 people on it, and we were all sitting like along the outside. And she was pointing to the people directly across from her, not more than five feet away from her. And she was like, Can you please ask these people to be quiet? I can't hear what you're saying.

unknown: 6:54

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02: 6:57

So it was super awkward, because like it's not a very for like if you wanted a formal tour of the city, this is not, this was the boat that gave you cheese and wine. And oh my god, Karen, you're so bougie.

SPEAKER_04: 7:12

No, I wasn't like cheese and wine torque now in Amsterdam. All right, wait, no, I am really bougie.

SPEAKER_02: 7:20

Okay, this story sounds so bougie, but I wasn't the Karen, okay. And so, anyways, so the poor tour guide was like, okay, I'm going to just kind of turn my body a little bit and hope that this cranky old lady can hear me better. So she was talking and um, you know, doing her best to accommodate this old woman. And then, like, later in the tour, this they that group was chit-chatting. I could barely hear them. So I don't, and we were sitting right next to them, so I don't know what this lady's problem was, but she literally looked at them, like waved at them, and then like shh, no, put her finger up to her mouth and shushed them. Shushed her? She shushed them. Like we were all children. It was a group of four adults. It looked like it looked like maybe like two parents and their two grown children, or like their one-grown children and spouse, or something like that. And they were just chit-chatting the whole ride. Like they didn't, they clearly didn't care to hear the little factoids. It was so, it was so rude. It was just like blatantly rude for no reason. And there was plenty of room on this boat that this woman technically could have just gotten up and moved to a spot that was like closer to where the tour guide was talking. It was it was appalling. I was literally like, I had my phone out and I was like jotting down notes about this lady.

SPEAKER_04: 8:53

Well, I'm gonna call on Stephanie, who just said she has a question.

SPEAKER_00: 8:57

Oh, please. Did was she from the United States?

SPEAKER_02: 9:01

Of course she was. I knew it was an old white lady from the United States, and the people that were talking were not from the United States. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:13

Were they speaking in a different language?

SPEAKER_02: 9:16

Yeah, yes, they were speaking a different language. I don't know what, I don't know what it was or where they were speaking. Layers.

SPEAKER_04: 9:22

Okay, the the details.

SPEAKER_02: 9:25

Yeah, yeah. But this old lady man, I want to, I told Bob, I was like, I should just go and ask, like, pretend like I know who she is and ask if her name is Karen.

SPEAKER_00: 9:38

Hey, oh my god, Karen?

SPEAKER_04: 9:40

Yeah. Karen, Karen? Oh my god, Danny DeVito. I love your work.

SPEAKER_02: 9:54

It was. It was the the finger to the mouth was what sealed the deal for me. Yeah, that's like I that hasn't happened to me since I was in kindergarten, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 10:05

I do it to Quinn all the time. She was what'd you say? I do it to Quinn all the time. Oh sh. Well, she is.

SPEAKER_04: 10:15

By the way, is one of the biggest atroc atrocities. I feel like if you shush another person, you are You might as well be spitting on them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:28

It's pretty high up there.

SPEAKER_04: 10:30

So rude. It's so degrading. I just can't.

SPEAKER_02: 10:35

The fact that she thought, I don't know. I it's just there's so much she just need that fucking bitch. Literally. Like you're you're you're floating down a beautiful little canal in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Yeah. Just like chill. Pretty sure all these facts are Googleable. Yeah. And honestly, like it wasn't, it was it, it was a wine and cheese like boat tour. Like it was it was advertised as very it was an hour, it was like very minimal. They didn't give us anything that was like major historical fact. They told us about why some of the buildings are crooked and like why they look like they're leaning out. Like it was, it was very. If you if you read uh things to know about Amsterdam, you would have just you would have gotten all the facts, you know. It was more about just the vibe. Right. And she ruined it. She fucking ruined it.

SPEAKER_04: 11:40

Um gosh, this just goes back to our like, don't be a vacation, Karen. Like you're in another country embracing their culture, like just chill out and stop expecting everything to be so Americanized. Like, or you you're a guest. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:04

A guest. All right.

SPEAKER_06: 12:06

Steph, what do you got for us?

SPEAKER_00: 12:08

Well, um, my Karen story is kind of like popped up in my memory um because of my prep for our next episode. Um, but I was at a first birthday party. Um, so the little boy was turning one. And this was not long before like Quinn hadn't turned one yet. And so, and the mom who was starting the party, that was her first child, she has since had another, and you know, I only have one child. So we work together and kind of just quote unquote navigate momhood together, you know. We just talk about like um, oh, is yours doing this? And you know, I haven't seen that yet, or what are you trying for this, you know? Um, and her son, I guess, I well, he is like five months older than Quinn. So that's good to understand. Um, because you know, I was there, but then there were people there that I didn't really know, like her friends, and one mom was like talking about I hadn't really started like I had done solid, like uh, I'm sorry, like what is it called? Like food, spooned food, baby food puree, baby food. I'd started baby food, but I hadn't done a whole spoon food. I don't know, isn't that crazy that like that whole experience is just kind of blocked out of my life? But um called PTSD. PTSD 100%. Um but I hadn't really done a whole lot with like like uh solids or like little pieces of food yet. Like she'd done a little bit here and there, but like I wasn't really in the depths of it. And of course, you know, there's like, well, I do baby lead weaning and I do like this and that. And um, and I'm like, I don't know what the like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, and so this mom was like, I was she was talking about this pouch that she gives her son, but she said, I only do this brand because it has less metals or like our I can't remember what even like chemical or something, snob alert! And like mind you, I had been like the food journey was a little slow for me because um I kind of like my doctor Quinn's doctor mentioned something about like you know, you want to like make some food at home and like just mash it up and give it to her and stuff, and I'm like, well, that wheat that sounds like a lot of work, that sounds like a lot of work, and so I was feeling very overwhelmed and I finally broke down and just bought like straight up Gerber and like you know, because I was like it had been six months and she hadn't really been doing it because I was like paralyzed by this like pressure, and now like I'm seeing these kids who are like a few months older than Quinn, where I'm like, Oh, so now I have you know, if I give them a pouch, I have to think about the metals and stuff that you can find. And and she's like, Oh, it is in everything, and you know, I think she mentioned something that I was already giving Quinn, and I was just like, Okay, so I'm just gonna like me like preview of our next episode. Yeah, that's yeah for sure. It's like so anyway, I just I remember feeling like she was inserting herself, like, and she was you know presenting her quote unquote research and kind of saying like these are something this is at the birthday party? It was at a birthday party.

SPEAKER_04: 15:39

I feel like we were at a conference or something. Okay, so we're still at a one-year-old's birthday party. One year old's birthday party conversation.

SPEAKER_03: 15:46

This is one of those things, don't invite me nowhere, because I will straight up leave. Like, no.

SPEAKER_00: 15:52

I was literally like, okay, like I would have walked away from that conversation so quickly. Like, ugh. I I always and I like my coworker who like I know, I always she'll be like, a friend of mine, I'm like, is it her so-and-so? Like, I'll say her name because I'll be like, is it so-and-so with the arsenic? And she and she like laughs because like she also knows that she's a little um kind of I don't know, intense and a little over the top. But update, she told me like before the uh school year ended that she this woman's originally from uh from Australia, and I guess they're she's moving back to Australia because she just can't take like America and how like we don't do anything about like guns and she's afraid, like oh she was so sh anyway.

SPEAKER_06: 16:44

Okay, she's I mean, good for her morse of a different color. I was not that's a turn of events. I was not I know so sh I mean that made me like okay, wow, but like I was like that's great.

SPEAKER_00: 16:56

No, no, I get that, but like she was not a big one.

SPEAKER_05: 16:59

At least we're concerned about the overall.

SPEAKER_00: 17:02

Well, she's taking herself out of the she's taking herself out of the equation, though. Like, it's not like she's like, Oh, I'm gonna join mom's man and like pick it and like fight for you know, she's like, I'm leaving, but yeah, which is fine.

SPEAKER_04: 17:15

I feel that she has that privilege because she's from a different country, you know. So that's it.

SPEAKER_00: 17:19

But what you just said, she has that privilege where she can quote unquote do some research and buy really expensive brains of food to make sure that the her you know child gets the non-metallic ones, and I'm here given the fully metallic ones to my baby, you know, like it was just very said research. Said research, that's what I would we'll get into that next week. But I just I just remember being like, oh my god, there's so many, there's too many things I will now need to consider on this next step. And it took me forever to just buy some like baby food and like just give it to Quid and start that process. And now I'm like worried about the next step of like, okay, well, now when she's in this class, I have to pack lunches and she needs to pick it up with her fingers, like I need to consider all this stuff. I was just like just felt pressure and overwhelmed. Um, and like like Minika said, this was a one-year-old's birthday party.

SPEAKER_02: 18:12

Yeah, and you didn't know anything if you're like, I would love some advice because I don't know where to begin. But like, yeah, if if I'm not asking, please don't, please don't force your it was random research on me.

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

Yes, it was just weird how it even came up, and I was just like, okay, well I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_04: 18:32

And that's what I like, and and and I don't see anything wrong with this. I'm not I'm not trying to preference this as like that this there's good and bad, but this is why for me it's difficult to be in social situations because when people's whole identity is like being a mom who is a health nut worried about their kids, like I don't relate. That's not anything that I want to spend my time talking. It's hard enough for me to come and enjoy myself at the one-year-old birthday party, and then to have to have the side conversations that are just around centered around our children, where like I would just want, I want to know more just about you, like aside from being a mom, like it just is difficult to find like a mom circle where you know we can have a little bit more depth beyond the like you know, surface level stuff. And so I just think that that is also a challenge, which I think we talked about in one of our past episodes, you know. But okay, so we're gonna get we're gonna stick a pin in that because we are talking about the healthy, the quote unquote make America Healthy Again uh movement next episode. So I think that we that was a good segue. Um out of the Karen's and into Dance Moms. Was it a good segue? I don't know. But those are your turns for the week. So let's get into it. All right, so Abby Lee Miller, Jojo Siwa, and Maddie Ziggler have all become household names thanks to Dance Moms. A series that left an unforgettable mark on the dance worlds and beyond. When we were brainstorming topics for season three, we agreed that as dancers, we have to include at least one dance-themed episode each season. It's fun, it's in our blood, and let's be honest, ladies, we do what we want. I do what I want, bitch! Um, so just to give our audience a little bit of context, the idea of tackling dance moms came up partly because Karen has never watched it, so we wanted to make her suffer. Until we asked her then. And my daughter Brielle, along with almost all of her friends, are constantly glued to their phone watching clips from the show. Clearly, it is still making waves across generations.

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

I didn't realize, by the way, until your intro that it's still like going.

SPEAKER_04: 21:22

Like it's still there is a new cast. Um, so they have a whole they're redoing it. Like they have a whole new uh Abby Miller, they have a whole new so they've come out with that. But but Brielle watches the old one, and so do her friends. Like it is, yeah. And then all the moms have podcasts now talking about behind the scenes stuff that happened on the show because it has resurfaced with this generation. So they're doing like behind the scenes in their Instagram and stuff, you know, to capitalize on the truth of what occurred when the series aired. Um so, with that, today we are going to um talk about one episode, not the entire series like we did for um Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. I'm pretty sure Karen would drop dead if we tried that. Um we're just gonna focus on one classic episode, breaking down what makes it memorable, sharing our reactions to the chaos, the choreography, and the spectacle that is Dance Mom. So um I chose the episode, it's season three, episode nine, is it? I don't know. I think twelve. We'll we'll link it in the um show notes. Um, but Apple of Her Eye, because again, I saw Brielle watching this one day. Like I knew she was watching Dance Mons, but this particular episode, I was like, holy shit, what the fuck is this show doing? Um it was wild. And how has it not been canceled to Karen's point? Like it's syndicated and on multiple platforms, by the way. Um, so we're going to break down the episode so our listeners know exactly the moments that occurred during the show to make us think um um to make us think about like this. But before we get into the details, I just want to know like we're gonna we're gonna go piece by piece. Yeah, if you did any of your homework, you will know we're gonna go piece by piece. I did not do my homework. Okay. I did. I watched the show. Okay, yes, you did. You did partial homework, you get partial credit. Thank you. I'll take it. We don't, I just want a brief overall reaction. We don't have to go into specifics because we're gonna go through the entire show. Steph, let's talk with let's start with you as somebody who was a dance mom's alumni. Who is a dance mom's alumni?

SPEAKER_00: 23:58

Well, like I'm an alumni, or just that I used to watch it. Yeah, you used to watch it. Okay, so do we call those people then?

SPEAKER_06: 24:07

If not, fan fans, former fans that felt stronger than alumni. It does, it does.

SPEAKER_00: 24:14

Yeah, okay. I'm hesitant with that one, but um so first of all, I wanted to tell you like you sent the link to the episode on YouTube and mentioned that it was on Hulu. And I was like, oh well, I'll just go to Hulu to watch it so I can just like watch it on TV. And it's so funny, Hulu has season three and it goes episode 11 and it skips to 14. Oh, it does not have episode 12, which is why when you were like episode nine, I'm like, nope, it's episode 12, because Hulu does not have it. And I was like, ABC was like, we are not. Yeah, that one has to go. Interesting. Yeah, and so I I was telling um Steve, I was like, um, you know, I have to watch an episode of um Dance Moms, and I'm gonna have to watch it on my laptop because I it's not on Hulu, and he was like, Oh yeah, Hulu doesn't play that. So if there's any sort of, I was like, oh my god, they did a dance about like Rosa Parks, and he's like, Oh no, that's gonna be. He's like, that's not gonna be on there.

SPEAKER_02: 25:21

So um by the way, Prime Video still has it, so does it Amazon Prime, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:27

That's funny. I will keep going. Um, but my overall reaction, um, I don't know, I I kind of it's interesting because when the show was in its prime, um, you know, that studio is a real studio. Like I the studio I teach at has competed against them. I've been at competition with them, those actual kids, it um at the time. And it's just funny to see the choreography, you know, 13 years later, um, and just what wins and and what doesn't, and um the staging and all that kind of stuff is just very old school, you know, dance has really evolved a lot um even since then. So just from like a dance perspective, it was interesting to see the the choreography.

SPEAKER_04: 26:22

Um I would I would say dance has evolved because of shows like this, and so you think you can dance, like the the televised um version of dance that didn't exist when we were growing up as kids, and obviously social media, right? But like the exposure has gotten more, I would say, kids involved in competitive dance versus like studio dance so that they could make it onto series like this.

SPEAKER_02: 26:56

I feel like you guys are talking a lot about dance and choreography, and I didn't see any dancing in this damn show. So there was like 0.4 seconds of like a fan kick and then back to the moms.

SPEAKER_04: 27:08

Like I yeah, woo, I'm I'm fired up already about this. Moms.

SPEAKER_02: 27:14

You're trying to like I realized that after the fact. I was like, where the fuck was all the dance? But yeah, then I realized like, oh, dance moms, like this is about the drama between the moms, which yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:26

I kind of like I forgot about I didn't forget about the pyramid, but like I just forgot, like just listening to Abby Lee give them their feedback as to why they were where they were on the pyramid and you're can we talk about what the pyramid is because I yes, you guys.

SPEAKER_04: 27:43

I just want your overall reactions.

SPEAKER_00: 27:46

Yeah, I know I'm giving the my overall reaction. I just forgot about like how demeaning there it, you know, like that can be, and to stand there and have to, you know, get this feedback from a teacher, like the parents being able to hear exactly what the teacher's saying, and them, you know, talking about it, and like, you know, just like the pitting against each other, like I just forgot how like you know, toxic, negative, toxic that must have felt like for the dancers, uh, for the parents and stuff. And um, yeah, so I was just kind of like, oh my god, I forgot how like you know, even my heart was like beating, like, oh my gosh, why would you say that to them? Or like, why are they having this conversation openly in front of each other and stuff? So, um, so yeah, but so overall I was basically like, I can't believe I I mean I watched multiple seasons of this show and I didn't miss an episode. Um, and I couldn't probably watch it now. Granted, I'm older, I'm a mom now. I you know, like, so I have also evolved um since I was really into this show, but it was just like you know, it was I was just like, this this is a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 29:03

All right, Karen. Two sentences or less.

SPEAKER_02: 29:06

Okay, I'm just gonna read my text message that I sent you guys yesterday. This was my reaction. Um it infuriates me. Like every little detail. The dumb bitch moms, the fashion sense, the hair, the backstabbing, anti-feminist shit, the head of both studios, the shitty facade of her studio, the music, the costumes, the lie of making a new routine every week, the fake confessionals, the fake conflict, the racism, the weird, high-pitched voices that everybody talks in. Yeah, that was that was my take. I literally texted that to the two of you yesterday. I I was I was like on an airplane watching this on my phone, just like raging. I had to keep hitting pause and like crossing my arms and being mad.

SPEAKER_04: 29:57

Karen, do you watch any reality TV?

SPEAKER_02: 30:02

Um I'm sure I do. Um. Um, but I can't think of any at the moment. I used to watch more. I'm really struggling to think of any. I like I well, like So You Think You Can Dance? Is that reality TV? Like, I used to be into all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 30:29

Yeah, but it doesn't have the that's just the dance, like So You Think You Can Dance is kind of like idle, like in uh like Yeah, it was more the competition stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 30:39

Back in the day, I watched like real world road rules, all of that, but I've but I have very little tolerance for that stuff now for sure. Yeah. And it's just all it's also, it feels so fake and staged, and I like I hate that we call it reality.

SPEAKER_00: 30:58

I the type of you know, I don't really watch reality anymore, but the kind that I really liked would have to have some sort of creation or um competition or like element. So like, you know, like when when Quinn was born, we would we sat and watched Top Chef. Like I like that because like there's like a challenge and they take ingredients and make something. I love Project Runway. We also sat and watched that while Quinn was an infant. And so something where something was made and created. Um, and I feel like um I think the first season of Dance Moms, I was basically where you were out with Karen about like there's no way they're making new dances, they're definitely just using their dances from the season. But I do think as the seas the series went on, like by the time the season that we watched, season three, I think they were actually making new dances. I don't think they were going to school as much, and um, and they were traveling um regionally to extra competitions. So I do think that they were making new dances um for the show. Um, but at the beginning they definitely weren't, and I was like, and the the acting like they aren't all doing their solos. Like if they went to competition, they probably all were doing a solo. Um, but the show is probably focusing on hey, we're gonna actually watch the process for her solo this week. Um but like all of them had solos, all of them have duets and trios and stuff. So that at the beginning, I was like, this is that's not that's like not real. How the but I do think that they were actually creating because they were going to a lot more competitions than a normal studio would um in for the purpose of the show. For the purpose of the show, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 32:37

Yeah, and I think that that's like a good I think there was a TV show, I can't remember what it was was the title of it now, but um it came on, I want to say, God, FX. Anyway, it was a um about The Bachelor, but it was actually fiction, but it was like basically um like this is what reality TV is like is like it gave like a good background or it gave a good um like showed the behind the scenes and stuff. Yeah, it just kind of like showed, yeah, like reality TV isn't quote unquote to your point, Karen, it's not reality. And and the audience knows it's not reality, right? Um we know like nonfiction. They, I mean, they do. Like when I was watching with Brielle, she was cracking up. Like she was like, oh my god, Abby. Like, like they don't take it seriously.

SPEAKER_03: 33:42

She's like, look at Holly's face right now.

SPEAKER_04: 33:45

Like they don't, they don't think that it's real. They know that there's some sort of um facade in the same way that like Disney characters aren't the real Snow White, you know? Like I think they know that it's I I think that's the like I think that's why I personally don't have a strong reaction to it because I know the entertainment value of it. Like I know that like these girls know that there's a camera in front of you. And regardless of how uh how trained or untrained you are, whenever there's a camera in front of you, you're gonna be acting to some extent. You're gonna have to redo some things because of lighting. You're gonna have to, you know, you're gonna get some sort of stage direction. Um, I think it's just these, and the reason why these people are considered B-less celebrities is because they don't want to take the time to do acting classes or have to go through the whole process of auditioning for an actual show to have that kind of talent. And this is the quick and easy way to get famous.

SPEAKER_02: 34:44

I think the thing about this show that really bothered me the fact that it it feels like it's exploiting children. Like these moms are like, I want to be famous, so I'm gonna throw my kid on this show and have them be raided by this woman who sucks like at life. And and that's like, and I'm okay with that because it's giving me my 15 minutes of fame. I just I found that very upsetting. Like those poor like stuff started out with the pyramid thing, like these poor little girls.

SPEAKER_04: 35:22

Like, I think that that's like some of our like commentary, but I will say, just to wrap up this like overall impression of like, um, I think timing is a bit is something to keep in mind with that, not saying that you're wrong. Um, I just think of that also with now with like how I feel about YouTube TV and like my kids watching YouTube videos and like kids who become YouTube famous, like it just it feels very like similar. And I think that's a very like American thing with capitalism. But um let's talk about it. So the show opens with them um coming back from getting, God forbid, seventh place in hip-hop, which the hip hop at uh competitive dance hip-hop. I have thoughts, but since we're already at minute 37, we'll skip that. So the pyramid. Yeah, explain what that is. Okay, so the pyramid is Abby's um Abby Lee, who is the owner of this studio. This is her way of quote unquote critiquing the girls on their performance from the previous weekend's competition. So, based off of her of the judge's evaluation of you as well as what she saw, um, as well as your mom's behavior from the week, uh, you are placed on a hierarchy. Um and she starts at the bottom with the um worst dancers and then works her way up to the top dancer of the week, who generally is Maddie Ziegler. Um, and speaking of what you were talking about, Karen, Maddie has come out. She left the show with her younger sister, McKenzie, who on this episode is at the bottom of the pyramid.

SPEAKER_02: 37:23

I didn't realize she had a sister on it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:26

Yeah, McKenzie, who looks like she's like three years old, that who was doing the makeup of the girls behind the scenes, that's Maddie's sister. Okay. They both left the show with their mom and went out to L when they moved to LA, right? After the studio moved to LA, they both left the show with their mom, but their mom was like, This is too much for my girls. It's like she finally was like, This is too much. And Maddie, from what I read, Maddie and Abby have not had any contact since. And Maddie came out with a book or something. She's been taught like a couple of interviews talking about the toxicity of that relationship. Maddie's like 20 years old now, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

Yeah, she's grown. I remember she was like on. I thought she was older than that.

SPEAKER_04: 38:11

No, she's she was uh God, in my notes, I put I was like looking this up because I was she's seven, she was seven.

SPEAKER_02: 38:20

22 right now. 22. Yeah. Like she was on, I feel like she performed at the Oscars. Yeah, she performed with Sia.

SPEAKER_04: 38:29

She's like a household name in the dance community now. Sorry. Okay, so back to the pyramid. So this is Abby's ranking system. So this is where Karen got introduced to dance moms, and um poor Mackenzie, who is like four years old, is getting yelled at, and she's at the bottom of the pyramid. Um, then we're introduced to Kelly, who also has two girls on the team and a Karen haircut, like Quintessential. It was Karen haircut. It is wow. We it should be the graphic of this podcast. Um she's mad because her daughter finally gets one, her younger daughter finally gets a duet, but she only gets the duet because the girl who she's dancing with sucked so bad that Abby was like she was like, because you fought you've always wanted a duet with Chloe. Well, guess what? You get it, because Chloe has been demoted. It was so nasty. And then we have Jill, who is absolute trouble, and she also has a quasi-Karen haircut. Um, and this brings in one of the first like major points of contention of the episode is that Jill gets new headshots for her daughter Kendall, which makes everyone so upset. Oh, we're getting new headshots now, you know? Um, like, oh, she's just a kiss ass, you know. Um, which like we'll get to is another like plot line of the the story of like everybody's mad because everybody's a kiss ass and they don't like how you're kissing ass, but they kiss ass too. It's just like all just so ridiculous. Um, and then we get to Maddie and Mia. So Maddie is no longer the top of the pyramid. Nia, who is the only black girl on the team, she is the top of the pyramid because they she got first at the last competition. Her mom like won some award, like they got noticed for her costume. And uh they're going to be, Abby says, performing at um a dance competition in Cincinnati, Ohio. And uh they're going to be performing a piece that is a tribute to Rosa Parks. And with Nia at the top of the pyramid, there is only one thing you can assume as a viewer, and if you are Holly or Nia or anybody else with a fucking brain, it would be that Nia is going to play the role of Rosa Parks among this group.

SPEAKER_02: 41:21

I was like, um, you know, Abby did the whole like, well, it's not guaranteed to like maintain her exact quotes was don't assume anything.

SPEAKER_04: 41:32

I have no idea who will play Rosa Parks.

SPEAKER_02: 41:36

So um I genuinely thought, like, I thought, well, obviously, as soon as they said they were doing the Rosa Parks dance, I was like, oh, this is why we're watching this one. Like, uh, because holy fucking shit. But then I genuinely thought she was gonna pick not Nia. And I was like, I can't believe that this is happening right now.

SPEAKER_04: 42:00

So yeah, so spoiler alert, Nia becomes Rosa Parks. Thanks, Karen. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 42:06

Um, I don't think any of I think any of our listeners who have seen it already know that, and any of our listeners who haven't seen it won't be watching it, so I'm pretty sure we're in the cool.

SPEAKER_04: 42:16

Yeah, but we're going through the episode bit by bit. This is like the first 30 minutes of the episode. So let's get your reactions to the pyramid.

SPEAKER_02: 42:25

Um I I I thought it was so I I I thought it was a little confusing because they started off the show with this pyramid, and I didn't really understand what was happening because I've never seen it before. So I realized, so you know, okay, so I genuinely thought we were talking about a pyramid, like, you know, in cheerleading when you do a pyramid. Oh and so I was like, are they are I don't I don't I don't understand why we're doing a pyramid and dance. And then and then about like halfway through, I realized like, oh, she's just critiquing them, and then somebody's gonna be the best.

SPEAKER_05: 43:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 43:06

Um, and then I thought it was so annoying and dumb that that other rival studio with the boys also did the pyramid thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, but yeah, it was like it was awful. It was so cringe just watching her rip these poor tiny children apart and have their moms there to like witness this and not say anything or and like not. I just feel like the psychological damage this must have caused on these girls is gotta be atrocious. Like, I really hope behind the scenes they were like, okay, Abby's gonna say some stuff. She doesn't mean it. This is just for TV. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_03: 43:46

Which is also really fucked up. Yeah, no, the whole thing is really fucked up.

SPEAKER_04: 43:51

It was chewing.

SPEAKER_02: 43:54

Yeah, no, but I mean, like, if they didn't say that, then they're just letting this woman verbally abuse these children in front of their moms, and their moms are doing nothing to stop it. Like, I just I like I am so fired up.

SPEAKER_04: 44:08

I think that's the like if you were to watch more episodes, you would see that they don't they do like that's the like toxicity, is that like they play this game, but then it's like it's like okay, now you push me over the edge. Yeah. I mean, like they're never always like that. Was like, don't ever talk to my kid like that. Yeah, it's always this kind of weird negotiation until something just like makes them like yeah, they they they cross the line, you know. But but there is there is conflicts between the moms and Abby because of the way that she talks to them. It's just not always shown in each episode.

SPEAKER_02: 44:52

Yeah, I just can't imagine what effect it had on these. They these are little fucking girls, like little girls. Yeah, I just it makes me so sad. I and and I think your parallel to the you know the YouTube influencers and stuff like that is exactly right. The people who just exploit their children on YouTube is the same thing, and that's equally upsetting. And we see the damage that it causes these kids, you know, like, but we still do it.

SPEAKER_04: 45:21

Yeah, there'll be a documentary out soon. I think they did do a cast thing a couple years ago. Right, stuff? Yeah, I haven't watched it though.

SPEAKER_00: 45:30

What was your reaction to the pyramid? Oh, my reaction to the pyramid. Um, I it it took me back to like watching the the show, and I was like, oh, this is fun because Nia's at the top this time, which she is usually at the bottom. Yes. And like really, and um, I love that the episode um I I putting McKenzie at the bottom and acting like that is why she wasn't dancing that week um annoyed me because I know that Abby picked and chose when McKenzie would dance with them based on competition age. So, like her age, you know, the a competition age of the group is an average of all of them. And so Mackenzie would make them too young and they're supposed to be in the junior category. Or McKenzie wasn't dancing that week. And I like having watched the show and also being a competition dance teacher, I know that Abby takes McKenzie in and out dependent upon where they're competing and what average age she wants them to be. So McKenzie being so young, she pulls their age down, and so some competition she can't dance with them. Um, Brooke is like Brooke and Paige are sisters, and like spoiler alert, eventually they leave the show after a really big blow between Abby and her mom. But Brooke is 13, and so that puts her in the teen category, like as they get older, and so not McKenzie doesn't dance a lot of times when she's dancing, and vice versa, like so and they use like yeah, like they were like, Yeah, she um was and maybe you know that the what she was saying to McKenzie about how she said she was injured, so she should have been resting, like um, that's fine, but that's not fully why she wasn't dancing that week, and then it's funny, like that it's like, well, Mackenzie's been making makeup tutorials on YouTube, so now she's gonna be the makeup girl. Like, I just uh thought that was a funny way to weave in, um yeah, you know, and her mom, you know, back to what we were saying about like the moms being willing to like exploit their children, like her mom was really trying to put like plug, well McKenzie does you YouTube tutorials, and I think McKenzie did end up getting a lot of followers um on her YouTube page and stuff, and she had a music video and like did all sorts of stuff later. Like, the moms were always seeking opportunities, opportunities uh for their kids, and that was like that first glimpse of Melissa really like doing a little extra for her little girl, you know, because everybody I think the whole episode talks a lot about Jill, but like they all they all did it, they all did it.

SPEAKER_04: 48:31

Yeah, the entire show is about that. I mean, in that like I want to come back to um Holly, but I do I do have a note in here about candy apples. So, Karen, you made a reference to um the what a dumb name, too. The competing studio, Kathy. Um, so Kathy's daughter, Vivian, used to be in a dancer for Abbey Lee Dance Studio. Oh.

SPEAKER_05: 49:00

And that is why Kathy left and started her own studio, but you notice that her team is all boys.

SPEAKER_02: 49:08

I thought it was like, I just thought it was like the show trying to sh have like a visual and antithesis. Yeah, antithesis.

SPEAKER_04: 49:19

Yeah, I think because season three, they had to like do something to elevate, like each season has its own like signature, and I think season three was the conflict between candy apples and um because a lot of other to Steph's point, like other studios beat Abbey Lee Dance Studio all the time, so it's really hard to find another studio that's going to want to like like do these shenanigans.

SPEAKER_00: 49:46

And Kathy didn't start her own studio because of Abbey Lee. Candy Apples is a long-standing studio. I competed against them when I was a kid, and they're very good, yeah. Um, they they're they're they were actually a dumb studio name, but very talented um studio. She actually Candy Apples, yeah. They yeah. So when she I don't know, it's I mean, uh did you see the lady?

SPEAKER_04: 50:14

She's like just she's off her rocker.

SPEAKER_00: 50:16

She brought Vivian to the show, like sh because she like she didn't need to a studio to train her daughter at. She wanted her kid to be on TV, and then and then uh I think was like, Well, I have my own studio, we can do this like battle thing, and um yes, so that whole thing candy apples, like bringing in that choreographer, and you know, those boys that were dancing for her don't live in Ohio and don't train at her studio.

SPEAKER_02: 50:46

Yeah, I heard reference to like she flies them in or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:50

It was all it's all just for the show. Um it's all just for the yeah, Kendall. You know, what did she wasn't on season one? Didn't she join season two? Maybe um I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04: 51:02

Yes, you're right.

SPEAKER_02: 51:03

Were they the same girls in all of the seasons? Most of them.

SPEAKER_04: 51:07

They had so Jojo Siwa, most of them, but Jojo Siwa comes in later. Um, and then who was the other like um Kalani or Kalani, yeah. Yeah, and she's from Arizona. Yeah, they have a couple of ones that come in. Um, but okay, so candy apples for those of you who are trying to follow along with this recap that is going horribly south.

SPEAKER_03: 51:36

We can never be recappers of a show.

SPEAKER_04: 51:39

But they're okay, so Kathy has this competing studio, and um her students are all boys. She has this um choreographer named Anthony, and he brings with him so much toxic masculinity. I think one of the quotes he says is boys can't be as dainty as girls, and um was just like you need to be tougher on them, you need to be harder on them, and then him and Kathy get into a fight, which actually made Kathy look good, which was like, whoa, but yeah, he was being such a dick to that one kid, and she came over and like kind of gave him a squeeze, like it's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 52:18

Yeah, and then it was like you can't baby boy dancers, like they have to be men or whatever. I was like, dude, get this guy out of here.

SPEAKER_04: 52:28

And the other kid, to your point, is like the same as McKenzie. Like, he's like four years old, he looks so small, he looks so like a baby. And he also has daddy, a dad who like is like kind of strange as well, and like a helicopter parent. Um, and it was at this point in the episode where I realized like Brielle and I are not of the same generation. She's like, why doesn't Anthony's hat fit on his head?

SPEAKER_06: 52:55

Was it one of those little like tall?

SPEAKER_04: 53:04

And it just reminded me there's like another like thing going around Instagram now with like Neo and his hat.

SPEAKER_02: 53:10

Oh my gosh, I've seen those. They're hilarious. I wish I had a hat.

SPEAKER_03: 53:15

And that's like around the time of this. Like that's when Neo became popular.

SPEAKER_05: 53:19

So I was like, it didn't even faze me of all the fashion things, of all the fashion atrocities in this episode. I was like, that's not pretty normal.

SPEAKER_02: 53:27

Are we gonna talk about the shopping?

SPEAKER_04: 53:28

Oh no, yes, I said we're gonna come back to that. That like you guys were referencing candy apples, so I had to like. Okay, okay, okay. So are you guys still listening to this episode? Are you still lacking? The last thing that I want to bring up with candy apples is there is a ribbon cutting and a plaque for beating Abby Lee's dance studio.

SPEAKER_03: 53:58

What is happening here? A ribbon cutting for an already established studio that Stephanie said she competed in.

SPEAKER_00: 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:08

Like in the 90s. And so, like, why ribbon cutting and why you repainted the outside?

SPEAKER_00: 54:16

She said we did like a spruce, a spruce up or something, she called it.

SPEAKER_04: 54:23

Oh my god, so ridiculous. So, okay, so back to dance mom's characters. Um the groveling moms with no dignity is what I called this um portion. Uh, Holly is again, every time these women or their daughters make get some sort of accolade or get some something that um is like celebratory, Abby finds a way to just strip them of that yeah, of that pride. So um Holly was congratulated for uh designing a costume for Nia in the last competition. So, what does Abby do? Holly, you need a makeover. I can't believe that somebody, an award-minute winning costume designer, dresses like that. That's what she said. Says Abby. Who I said that's what I said.

SPEAKER_05: 55:20

If exactly, I was like, you look like Rose Ambarr right now. Shut the fuck up. What are those bangs, my friend?

SPEAKER_02: 55:34

And and like just, I mean, she just wears like a black t-shirt and leggings all the time. Like, I don't I don't need fashion advice from you.

SPEAKER_04: 55:42

I don't need fashion advice from you.

SPEAKER_02: 55:44

Yeah, I didn't understand that at all. And then she took her shopping and like put in what looking like reason out of this, but it looked like a problem, like a fake store, you know. Like, what store are we at right now, ladies? It was so it was so cringe, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04: 56:03

Yeah, it was unbelievable. So um that was Karen being reasonable, but we're we're gonna step back into this reality where none of it makes sense. Alternate reality, alternate reality. Holly goes, but she does something a little bit like she thinks she's bringing Jill along to like be a buffer between her and Abby, and then Jill, whose daughter is Kendall, um, is coming along to quote unquote like help Holly, but also to like see if her daughter could potentially be the role of Rosa her white daughter, her very white child.

SPEAKER_02: 56:53

So this show is such nonsense. You guys see it, right? It's so bad.

SPEAKER_04: 57:01

Like that was as I was typing these notes. I was dying. I was like, I can't believe I'm writing any of this right now. This is so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02: 57:12

There's no world where the the owner of a studio criticizes a mom's attire and then insists that they go shopping together. There's no world where the Holly mom takes the Jill mom with her. This is all, it's all not reality. This is my oh, I just oh it drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 57:32

So, but I think that it is in a sense to what Karen, um, Steph's Karen story is this is a case of people wrapping up their identities in their children and trying to live vicariously through them, regardless of like the we what's real or what's not.

SPEAKER_02: 57:54

And it reminds me of like going into this show in the first place, is exactly right.

SPEAKER_04: 57:58

Yeah, it reminds me of our millennial episode of like the um the resume building of a childhood, like the professionalizing professionalization of a childhood. Like it might not be to this extreme in our communities, but families are really making this investment into their children. It might not look like this, but they're doing things at a young age to get their kids to a certain level to be able to be either professional baseball, hockey, soccer, or whatever player, student, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 58:32

Yeah. It's infuriating because if you're then not doing that for your child and you want your kid to just have a childhood, then you feel like you're like your child is behind or like you're not setting them up for success. Like I have this internal battle all the time about this because it feels like I need to be like putting Maxwell in more activities and more tutoring and more, more, more, more. And it's like, when does the child just get to like play? And he literally says like that. He's like, I went, I want to play.

SPEAKER_04: 59:10

That's what I was gonna say. I don't feel the need or urgency to put my kids in more. We're not, we we are pretty Luke and I are pretty aligned in that, and our kids are pretty okay with that. The thing that stinks more than anything is who do they play with. Because there's no longer anybody just kind of outside playing right now in a beautiful neighborhood that we chose because we had the kind of childhood where it was like, just go outside and play, someone's gonna be there, you know. And it's like, but people are no longer there, you know, because everyone's overscheduled. So that is the like, I think, hard thing. It's like that just means Luke and I become playmates, and it's um I'm not I'm not a playmate. Yeah, yeah. They need some look, they need to learn those problem solving skills with others. Their kids, their age. And um that that becomes the hard part for me, at least. So anyway. Just get them on to the dance mom's show and problem solving. Yeah. Yeah. All my kids and all their rhythm.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:18

They'd be at the bottom of the pyramid. Every week. I hope they're not listening. Oh, they know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:27

We all. This is a common thing in the Rosa household that we love to think about. All right. So let's wrap it up because I think we're almost at the top, or we're pretty much at the top of the hour with this episode. But um, okay, so the episode ends with the competition. Kathy brings in bodyguards because the last time she was at a competition, she accosted Abby Lee and the other dance moms. So she needs a bodyguard. She is awful. Um she's so so dramatic. Um, Nia is wearing tights that make her legs look ashy in this Rosa Parks routine. Um, the stud the two studios have to sit directly behind each other because why not? Um they have to capture those moments. Yeah, they have to get the shots. Um, the little boy from Candy Apples fucks up so badly, throws his shirt. Um, I think that cost him a little bit of points. I don't know what the point system is, but I think that's what they're trying to make us think. Um, the moms are all emotional over Rosa Parks and how moving it is. And uh I'm dying to know what song they actually danced to. Yeah, we don't get to know what song it actually was to.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:51

Um yeah, all the music that they put over the dances.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:56

You know, you guys mentioned that yesterday, and I think that that's like a royalty thing. It is for sure. Okay, because I'm like, they do that on ESPN with the dance competition.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:06

It's just like all the money that you're making on this show, you can't pay the royalties.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:12

And that is the point of the actual craft that you are highlighting is they dance to the music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:22

Like that's what makes that's the wow fact. That's like what brings it all together. Yeah, like with college.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:29

Like when Ohio State did their um which routine was it? Any of them. The one where the guy, it was like the guy talking over there. They put it on ESPN and it was like just a random.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:44

That's so ESPN competition when they air any competitive uh competition on TV, which should be a very special moment, they do not play the actual music. And it makes me so so mad. Um yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:03

To be to be so to give some like analogy here, if you're not in the dance world, it's like if you saw clips of the Super Bowl, but the players were like extracted from the field and put onto a basketball court, that's like what they were doing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:20

Or like different people's faces were put on the players.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:25

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:26

Like not, it wasn't LeBron James, it was just some random face plastered on his body.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:32

It makes me so just like it just takes away from the whole like excitement and the whole thing that they worked for, you know. Anyway, we digress again. Um, so Kelly's finally happy about this fucking duet. The team wins, and the moms are feeling themselves, and they head to Candy Apple's dressing room to gloat. For which Kathy tells them, Um, ladies, when you do that quarter turn, suck them in. Suck them in. Like they went hard. I can't believe we didn't even talk about Chrissy. Chrissy drove me crazy when I was Christy. Chrissy's daughter is Chloe Cousyak. She's the one, her daughter was in the Broadway blondes dance duet dance.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:23

Jeez, can we talk about that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:24

Oh and Chrissy used to drive me crazy when I watched the show, but she was the only one making sense about the whole Rosa Parks thing. She was the only one who articulated it. Even I was like, and I don't know if they cut Holly out, but like I know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:43

So I was surprised that she was so quiet throughout the process and like was willing to go on the shopping trip and stuff because Holly, I don't remember her being like that docile about things. I felt like Kelly also said something. Like, she's like, why don't we pick one of the white girls to be Rosa Far's?

unknown: 1:05:02

Like, what?

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:04

Yeah, yeah. And then and then Chrissy also saying, like, and then go to a competition and have other studios be like, what was that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:15

So that was By the way, the way that the moms talk, I feel like I wanted to punch all of them in their stupid faces. I'm not a violent person. I've never punched anybody. It was like um, it was like watching an episode of the Kardashians. They were all like talking like this. I couldn't, I couldn't even listen. When Holly talked, I couldn't even listen to her. I was like, nobody talked to her. Her voice is pretty annoying, I will say that. It's so annoying.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:50

It can't be real. I think it is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:53

Like, I don't know. Let's go listen to their podcast after this. This actually whole episode was a plug. Go in, listen to no thanks.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:04

Let's not see.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:05

Um, all right. We have exhausted ourselves with dance moms. Um, we're gonna just end it right there. Sorry that was so chaotic, but if you watch the show, you know why. Um ladies, before we get out of here, do you have any confessionals?

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:24

Nope. Um, no confessionals, and I know we have been going crazy long, so I will just wrap us up. Um, thank you all for listening. Please like, subscribe, follow us on Instagram at you can call me Karen underscore pod. Um, and please comment uh if you miss us in between episodes. We look forward to seeing you next week.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:04

And the blue one, and the box, and a yellow one, and they're all made out of chicky tacky, and they all look just the same.