The Alto Syndrome

Summary

In this episode, we dive into the second season of America's Sweethearts: Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, discussing the drama, character development, and societal implications of the show. We reflect on personal experiences, media representation, and the importance of feedback in leadership roles. The conversation also touches on Kelly's political stance and the emotional journeys of the cheerleaders, emphasizing the need for empathy and understanding in today's society. In this engaging conversation, we delve into the evolving landscape of college dance teams, the impact of social media on dancers' careers, and the pressures of body image and expectations in the dance world. We share personal anecdotes about a DCC cheerleader from the Ohio State Dance Team, discuss the dynamics of mother-daughter relationships in dance, and reflect on the season's highlights and challenges. The conversation is filled with humor, insights, and a deep appreciation for the artistry and athleticism of dance.

Keywords

America's Cowboy Cheerleaders, DCC, Netflix, pop culture, media representation, political commentary, character development, emotional growth, cheerleading, society, dance, college dance teams, Abby Summers, body image, social media, Ohio State, dance careers, expectations, mother-daughter dynamics, confessionals

References

Netflix series:

America's Sweethearts: Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders

Season 2

Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!

As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.

Chapters

• 0:00 Sparkles, Bey, And Season Setup
• 3:40 Alto Confessions And Warmups
• 4:45 Karen Of The Week: Media Negligence
• 9:50 Journalism, Race, And Pop Culture Memory
• 12:30 Cowboy Carter, Genre Policing, And A Park Karen
• 18:30 Youth Joy, Rules, And Pushback
• 22:57 DCC S2 Arrives And Why It Lands
• 26:10 Kelly’s Politics And Humanizing The Coach
• 34:40 Feedback Culture And Transparent Coaching
• 38:20 College Dance Pipeline To Pro Teams
• 45:30 Strength, Aesthetics, And The “Too Muscular” Debate
• 53:40 Style Shifts: From Bark To Sass
• 56:10 The Boyfriends Questioned
• 1:02:20 Dayton, Shelly, And Legacy Pressure

Transcript

SPEAKER_05: 0:11

And the blue one and the yellow one and the red glitter, rhinestones, and cowboy boots. Oh my! This week we are unfortunately not talking about Mrs. Knowles Cowboy Carter Takeover, but rather a different American requiem. That's right, we're diving deep into season two of America's Sweetheart, Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders on Netflix. Kelly, Judy, and your favorite high-kicking icons are back, and we've got a lot to say. So grab your pantyhose, touch up that signature lip, and hop on the bus with us and Mr. James Laurie. It's time to break down the drama, the legacy, and the sparkle one last time this season on You Can Call Me Karen.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18

Hello.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20

Hello.

SPEAKER_05: 1:22

Guys, I gotta say, American Requiem is a tongue twister.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28

How does Beyonce do it?

SPEAKER_05: 1:32

Um, we're back for the season finale of You Can Call Me Karen. We have so much to say today, but before we do that, you know how we like to start. That's right. I am here with my co-host Steph. Hello, hello. Oh, I like that. That was a little like alto.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54

Are you an alto? I think I am. Like my heart wants to be a soprano, but everybody hearts wants to be a soprano.

SPEAKER_06: 2:03

Totally an alto. Totally an alto. Yeah, so bad when I got put in that group in chorus.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09

Oh my god, you guys, we would have all sat next to each other though.

SPEAKER_06: 2:12

That would have been a problem. That would have been very problematic. Me and my sister were literally just joking about being Eltos because she was one too. And and Bob, I guess, never was in like chorus or choir or anything like that. And I was like, it is the worst. Like, I'm trying to think of a song right now. It's a video. Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

SPEAKER_02: 2:38

I swear there's a video of Amy Poeh talking about that with someone. And she does the exact same thing, but it's a different song. But she, but like, yeah, it's like the worst.

SPEAKER_06: 2:50

Mary had a little lamb. It's the freaking worst. I mean, while the friends are like so seen right now.

SPEAKER_05: 3:00

I have never like, I feel like this is like a trial childhood trauma unlocked. Like I need to write this down and have a conversation with my therapist because like I didn't realize how bad it affected me. It was last week. It was genuinely not fair. It was not fair. But you know what I was thinking about last week is that um I think this is why I love female um rap artists. Because I was like, once I discovered them and like that like alto in their voice, I was like, okay, there's a place for me in society.

SPEAKER_06: 3:36

Yes, the place for me is female rap artists.

SPEAKER_05: 3:40

Yeah, next to MC Light and Missy Elliott. That crap. Um, okay, well, thank you guys for helping me through that. And I'm happy that I'm not alone. All right, let's jump in. We gotta know one last time for this season.

SPEAKER_02: 3:58

Who are you calling Karen? I can go first. I don't know if mine is like a Karen or not, but I just take issue with. So I'm gonna just say it. I'm gonna like say it and then you tell me if that's not really a Karen, but I just take huge issues.

SPEAKER_06: 4:19

I feel like our Karen segment has been modified over the course of it has, it's it's my fault, and I'm trying.

SPEAKER_02: 4:26

Where's the spectrum of Karen's? There's a space.

SPEAKER_05: 4:29

Okay, it is not a monolith.

SPEAKER_02: 4:33

So we have recently heard the sad news that Malcolm Jamal Warner has passed away. And so R.I.P. prayers and thoughts to family. But my Karen of the Week is Us Weekly who posted the news, but included a photo of Julia White.

SPEAKER_05: 4:54

Oh my god. Oh wow, I did not hear about this.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 5:02

They like missed, they they didn't know the difference between the two.

SPEAKER_02: 5:08

Yes, like it was a post like you know, RP to Malcolm Joan Warner, and then the photo was Julia White. And like the first comment was was like, uh, that's Urkel. So this was on their Instagram. Um I saw it on Instagram, but it was people screenshotting it and sharing it in disbelief. So I don't know what platform it was posted on. So this is just pure negligence, it's pure negligence, and I don't know why I'm putting it in this category of Karen, but do your research, be thorough, be thoughtful.

SPEAKER_06: 5:45

You don't even need to do research, just Google his name. Google Theo Huxtable. Yeah, that's what everyone was saying.

SPEAKER_05: 5:55

Here's the here's the Karen. The Karen is uh today's style of journalism. And so like Yeah, that they're too quick. Nobody works as a uh it seems like a team. Right. Because how did that get past multiple eyes before getting put out onto social media? Right?

SPEAKER_06: 6:18

Like it's also the public's insatiable demand for like I had a break to joy first.

SPEAKER_02: 6:26

Yeah. The way I saw it, um, the person was like, This is how you know there's no black people on your staff. Yeah. I know I was thinking the racist and culture. Like who can we? And are you all like born in 2000? Yeah. Like we don't know who he is, the king that he was. Good luck.

SPEAKER_05: 6:50

But I mean, he has had recent Yes. That's the thing. That's the thing about the um what I was saying about the style of journalism is that I feel like as a craft, you should know popular culture very deeply. And he has, he just won a he just won a Tony for Spoken Word album. I didn't know that. Yeah, he was recently back in the in the news. So and that uh culturally, it was like really big for uh for him, you know. So I I just uh that that's disappointing for sure. Ugh Mikey said, rest in peace. And that's also kind of traumatic to his family. Um I mean I'm sure they like and that's like very small on the scale, but also to like come on out of respect for the family that's grieving right now. Like man, not all black people look alike, guys.

SPEAKER_03: 7:47

I thought Stephanie just said period with her shoulders and I did period.

SPEAKER_05: 7:56

Um unfortunate. Okay, Karen, let's move on.

SPEAKER_06: 8:00

Because that I can't I wanted to start some drama because um I do have a Karen story, which we'll get to in just a moment. But when you opened with something about cowboy carter, did I make that up or did you say that?

SPEAKER_05: 8:17

It's in the notes, so go back and read. I will not. I will not. Um we are recording. We're not that far down in the document.

SPEAKER_06: 8:26

So I'm and it triggered a thought that I was at an um exercise class on I don't know, Monday or something, and one of the warm-up songs was um um I'm totally having a brain fart right now. Uh-oh. The main song from Cowboy Carter. Texas Hold'em. Thank you. Texas Hold'em. Um, and so it was playing, and the woman who was running, like leading the class was like, um, I'm just gonna say that this is not country music. Um I was like, oh my god, you're starting shit right now. So first of all, no one asked you. No one asked you.

SPEAKER_05: 9:16

Second of all, if you don't think that, then don't play the fucking song.

SPEAKER_06: 9:21

Country music. I think it checks all the boxes. You just don't like that she wasn't always country, I think is the problem.

SPEAKER_05: 9:28

But she has been always country.

SPEAKER_06: 9:30

I know that this is um also a Karen, but I do actually have a Karen story I wanted to share. Oh I was like, that was pretty good. You just my actual Karen story that I had prepared was we were on vacation and we were in a in a city with a big park in it. And in this park, there was this um pool. Uh it looked like um looked like a fountain to me. It was like probably uh a foot deep at the most. And then there was like these um these like concrete little circles that kind of did an arc through this pond that you could, they they looked like stepping stones, like you could walk on them. And so Maxwell, you know, got a real kick out of that and was like walking across this little um fountain thing, pond, but man-made, you know, so jumping across the little stones. He had a stick because the kid loves digging with sticks, and so he was like dragging the stick along beside him. I actually have a picture, I'll share it. Anyways, um, so I got out on there too, and we were like jumping across these things. And then um I got bored of that real fast, so he kept jumping across and he was swirling around the water and whatever, just having a good time. It was a weekday, nobody was around. And there was this old couple sitting on lawn chairs that they had brought there, I don't know, to protect the park or something. So this old man walks over to us and he's like, Um, excuse me, he can't have the stick in the water. This is a swimming pool. People swim in here. And I was like, Oh, okay. So um, there was not a human in sight except for this douche canoe. And uh a pigeon was literally in the water washing. Oh god, we were outside. So I was like, Maxwell, you can't put the stick in the water. I mean, like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, I was so like, Karen, shut up. Go sit down. What are you protecting right now? Can you get the pigeon out of the water, please? Because that is causing everyone hepatitis or HPV marks something disgusting.

SPEAKER_02: 11:50

Ugh like in the rocks. The what? Sorry. Wasn't he jumping on rocks also in the water?

SPEAKER_06: 11:58

Well, the ro the the stone things were like part of it. It was like it was like they were like little concrete little like pillar things and you could walk across them. But it was an outdoor right. So like when he knew when it storms what what if what if a leaf fell in there? Yeah, like is that gonna contaminate the water? Is it chlorinated? Maybe that's where you should start.

SPEAKER_02: 12:25

Yeah, well, is it? Because I'm like, that's not I've I'm not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_06: 12:29

It is it is it looks and when he said it, I was like, oh, it's like a little waiting pool for little kids. I didn't but nobody was around, so I didn't get that. And also, it's a stick. It's like it's so stupid. I was so mad. I was like, okay, Chad, sit down. Seriously, and whether it's like he's having a good time, like yeah, like minding his own business, jumping around. It was so and the worst part of it was this is what always happens to me when someone says something insulting to me, is my first reaction is to um feel like it's my fault. So I was like, Oh yeah, I'm sorry. Maxwell, get the stick out of the water. Don't have the stick in the water. And then the guy like walks away, and Max is like, Why can't I have the stick in the water? I'm like, I don't, it's a swimming pool. You can't have the stick in the water. And then I'm like, wait, what? The guy's already gone. I'm looking at Bob like, this is nonsense, right?

unknown: 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 13:28

Yeah. Oh my gosh. You're reminding me of um, I don't think I ever shared this, Karen, before, but like uh at Brielle's basketball games, there's like a group of bro of um bros, literal bros, like the brothers of the girls on the team. Oh literal bros. And they all like have so much fun together. It's adorable. And so when the um when it's like a timeout or uh halftime, they all go out and they shoot at like you know, and they have like such a good time. And there's been a couple of referees who are like, you guys can't do that, you have to sit down. And I'm like, finally, once I was like, why can't they do that? Why can't they do that? No, they're not bothering anyone. And by the way, the score is 50 to 12.

SPEAKER_06: 14:18

Like, can we count some of these baskets to make this a game? Like, this is not serious, okay? Yeah, seriously, they're kids and they're sitting on the sideline for an entire basketball game. Give them four minutes of joy.

SPEAKER_03: 14:34

Like, seriously.

SPEAKER_06: 14:36

Yeah, I need to do better about questioning things like that because what did they what did the ref say when you were like, why can't you?

SPEAKER_05: 14:43

He just kind of grumbled. He just kind of grumbled under his breath.

SPEAKER_06: 14:46

He couldn't answer it.

SPEAKER_05: 14:46

I'm like, yeah, because you're in a power struggle right now.

SPEAKER_06: 14:48

Like, that's yeah, and you're realizing that that's a stupid role.

SPEAKER_05: 14:52

Right.

SPEAKER_06: 14:53

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 14:55

You have no reason, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:58

So anyway, all right. Well, don't be like those people. Uh, and those are our Karen's for the week. Let's get into it, ladies.

SPEAKER_05: 15:17

All right, y'all. I watched all of DCC season two. We just found out which was the shocker of the century. Period. As the Gen Z say, I did not have that on my bingo card for the summer of 2025, but she did. Death is still getting caught up, but we might spoil a little bit for her. But basically, I'm just really surprised um because I think they listened to the You Can Call Me Karen podcast and covered every single thing that we unpacked in our DCC series last season. So it's it's like other people noticed what we noticed. No, we're the trendsetters and people are clearly listening. Um but what made so this season so exciting um is that we got to see an Ohio State alum, yes, our guy on screen multiple times during the auditions. Um, we're gonna look at uh episode one and two, I think we'll try and contain it to episode one and two, but really everything's a blur to me. Um but she was on screen multiple times and watching her go through the process felt so surreal. Um so here's how today is gonna look. Unlike our dance mom's episode, we're going to attempt to actually recap the show.

SPEAKER_06: 16:44

I don't remember our dance mom's episode. I've blacked, I've blacked out all of our prior episodes.

SPEAKER_03: 16:51

You were just like, I have issue with this.

SPEAKER_04: 17:00

Possible. We're gonna get to it.

SPEAKER_06: 17:10

We went like too far.

SPEAKER_02: 17:12

Like you were just looking for like general thoughts. But I Manny, you know what? You from school, you should have just asked for a this, this, or this, a thumbs up on the middle thumbs down.

SPEAKER_06: 17:28

Yeah, I walked into that.

SPEAKER_05: 17:31

Because we were like ready to go. I asked there was some restraint. I thought we could practice some restraint, but we didn't know we got that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 17:38

Do you think now is when we're gonna start?

SPEAKER_05: 17:42

I'm like, today's the day when you show me that track. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_06: 17:52

No can do. You also should know that I don't prep really for these.

SPEAKER_03: 17:58

So I like we know based off of the Beyonce line.

SPEAKER_05: 18:04

Um, all right. I'll follow your lead.

SPEAKER_06: 18:07

I'm gonna do my best.

SPEAKER_05: 18:08

No, you're not. You're not gonna follow my lead. Um, okay. I don't even know what I'm doing, actually. I this is like the least prep that I've ever done. It's summer in New Jersey, New York.

SPEAKER_06: 18:21

Yeah, yeah. Okay, and we follow a certain format. Okay. And now we are at the part where you're supposed to lead the discussion.

SPEAKER_05: 18:31

Oh, okay. Okay. So lean it away. I think what I want to start with is um, oh, I I see where I'm doing. Okay. I think what I want to start with is with um Kelly. Are we surprised that she's a Democrat? Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 18:50

I don't is she though? Are you saying that we're because of the reference to the suit?

unknown: 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 18:56

Kamala Hero's suit. Did she just do that for clickbait?

SPEAKER_05: 18:58

Like, I felt like that was Well, wait, but that could go either way.

SPEAKER_06: 19:03

Yeah. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_05: 19:05

Like, okay, so first of all, let's give context to our audience who we're talking about.

SPEAKER_06: 19:08

No, let's keep them in the dark.

SPEAKER_05: 19:12

The mystery. Um, so we're talking about when the season first opens, Kelly's getting dressed for auditions and she's telling her stylist that she wants to wear a pantsuit like Kamala. Keep in mind, mind you, that this is right, like they're filming this right as Kamala um announced her candidacy. Right. So um, so for her to say something like that is like I think late in the city.

SPEAKER_06: 19:41

Yeah, like probably right, maybe even before she announced. But because that would have been like this time last year. But she also pronounced her name correctly. Yeah, I did notice that.

SPEAKER_02: 19:56

Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah, because remember, before the bar is really low if we're celebrating the correct pronunciation of the vice president of the United States, but okay.

SPEAKER_06: 20:08

Before she became the candidate, everyone called her Kamala. No, Kamala.

SPEAKER_02: 20:15

No, now you're the correct Kamala.

SPEAKER_06: 20:18

Yeah, everyone called her Kamala. It's even hard to say now. It's hard to say it wrong. I heard someone say that wrong just the other day. And I was like, Where are you been, man? Yeah, just doing that to this.

SPEAKER_05: 20:31

I think, yes, the assumption, but I think when I did, I can't remember. This is what tipped me off to watching this season, though, is because I think someone went down, like someone posted about that, uh, of her making that comment, and that she has been a long-standing Democrat. Like it, like that's yeah, that was like something that like reserved that surfaced up when people noticed her like make that comment. So she's Kelly.

SPEAKER_02: 20:55

Are you guys surprised? Very completely surprised. Say more shocked. Why? Um I feel like like there's like a um a bouginess about her and like a superficialness about her. Like um, like this is terrible to say, but I felt like the times I was seeing her cry, I wondered if it was genuine. Yeah. And so, and I feel like in and if this is a broad brush to paint Democrats with, but Democrats tend to be empathetic, and I feel like this is going down a path that rural hair duration.

SPEAKER_05: 21:47

We we want to see your true colors.

SPEAKER_02: 21:49

This is I'm I'm off the rails. That is wrong. But all I'm saying is like there's just she just seems kind of fake sometimes. And um, but and I just feel like when you, especially in this climate and like what's happening in the United States, um, to keep to be you know left-leaning or Democrat or Progressive or whatever title you want to give it, takes a lot of like you know, push-through and grit and empathy, and you're you gotta keep saying all this stuff that seems like common sense and it's frustrating, and that's and it's hard to be a Democrat right now, like sometimes. And so, um, so I'm just surprised that she is, and you said she's been a long-standing one, and she's talking about Kamala Harris on a big television show on such a big platform, you know. That's I'm impressed. Like that's that makes me like her more.

SPEAKER_06: 22:48

Yeah, I feel like um I took a different angle with why I was surprised, but like she's from Texas, yeah, she works for the Dallas Cowboys, which is like notoriously conservative.

SPEAKER_01: 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 23:03

Um, yeah, like her boss is what do we call her? Betsy, Julia, Jessica, something Charlotte, I think is the name now. Um yeah, I just think, and like to your she's uh a wealthy Texan. I just I just assume they're gonna be conservative leaning.

SPEAKER_05: 23:26

So yeah, what they showed last season, right? With like the going to the church and like the Christian of it all. Like I just I felt like there were undertones of conservatism that it was in the show. So when Karen, you were like, you know, it it would profit her to be like to say that, I think that it would profit her to be MAGA.

SPEAKER_06: 23:48

Like I think that like it could go, I think that that actually what I meant by the what what I meant by that was like um I get the sense that the audience for the show is um very like MAGA, like very conservative. Like it it speaks to all of those things you were just saying, like southern religious, um conservative kind of values. And so I thought I took it as like, oh, and maybe we can get some maybe we can get some Dems watching this show too. Like that was like uh it felt like staged. Like, okay, let's try to broaden our audience.

SPEAKER_05: 24:30

Well, but that's also like, yeah, use your platform for that then, you know, like that actually also makes sense. If she actually, I didn't think if you I think if you like I would never oppose to I would never oppose to like if someone was like this is we're trying to get more of this audience to like so go against your like ideology to try to bring them on in the name of capitalism and money, people are shameless. I think you're being really Thomas Hobbes right now and cynical.

SPEAKER_06: 25:04

Oh I was like, who's Thomas Hobbes? Should I remember?

SPEAKER_05: 25:07

Thomas Hobbes is an enlightenment philosopher, and there were like two roads of thinking between Thomas Hobbes and uh who's the other one who liked the declaration of independence, uh John something or another. Anyway, there were like Hancock?

SPEAKER_06: 25:22

No, Declaration of Independence.

SPEAKER_05: 25:26

I was like, Well, Thomas Jefferson was like a like he built from this philosophy of John God, now I can't think of the name. Anyway, but uh Thomas Hobbes was like a ph philosopher who thought that humans were innately like evil and made bad choices.

SPEAKER_04: 25:40

Oh good, your brother.

SPEAKER_06: 25:42

Um I definitely recently had this conversation. I know I told you guys about do you think people are innately good or bad? And my immediate reaction is like good, and now I'm like, maybe bad. Yeah, so yeah, I'm feeling a little more cynical. I'm feeling more Hobbs today. Oh, is it Calvin by chance?

SPEAKER_05: 26:04

John Calvin? No.

SPEAKER_06: 26:07

I was like, oh my god, why did I not know this?

SPEAKER_02: 26:12

Calvin Hobbs. No, when you oh sorry, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06: 26:18

When um what I was thinking now too, like when she brought up John We are really we're keeping on our straight and narrow today, really.

SPEAKER_02: 26:35

Okay, sorry, Steph. Go. When you're talking about the Kamala Harris suit, I was thinking back to I don't know why this like interaction on a red carpet stayed with me, and maybe it was because okay, so my very first presidential election that I voted in was in 2004. So the first person, like president I voted for was John Kerry, who unfortunately did not win. And um the I was watching some like I loved like pop culture and always watched like e-news and like all that kind of stuff, and there was an interview on the red carpet, and they were just stopping celebrities and saying, like, which first lady style do you like better? And so they said Laura Bush or Teresa Hines, like they were asking, and I remember vividly that Kristen Davis on Sex in the City was so remember, it's 2004, was um walking down and they stopped her and she was like, Teresa. Um, but you could tell that they were saying who they were politically leading towards. Because I don't believe that Teresa Hines was a style icon. You know what I mean? And so like I it makes me think of you know Kelly bringing up Kamala Harris probably it probably meant something to her to say, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 27:55

As a you know, yeah, because like really you guys are the optimists of the group.

SPEAKER_05: 28:01

Well, it makes me think about the parameters of a coach. Like, I we gave her, we gave them a lot of heat last season, and it made me think about all of this makes me think about my time on the Cavs, and it just made me think about my coach, and that was a really tough relationship for me. And she, similar to your point, Karen, had to wear a coat of armor in that position that made her so unlikable. But underneath that armor, there was a human, you know, and I felt like for me, watching that moment with Kelly was like seeing a brief glimpse of a human being trying to code language to show like I hear the criticism, and like this is all I can give you right now.

SPEAKER_06: 28:59

I do feel like that's why whether they intended it or not, they probably did. They humanized her a lot more this season. Yeah, and where last season, I I don't really remember the details, but I remember feeling like when she showed emotion, it was fake. Uh, you know, it was kind it felt kind of staged. This time I felt like they showed her crying a lot more, yeah. And it felt more real.

SPEAKER_02: 29:32

Like she and that must be why I felt like I've only seen two episodes, so I'm still maybe holding on to who she was season one. And maybe if once I've like finished the season, I'll sit be saying what you're saying that like she because I'm I'm still feeling like I until yeah, and I just wasn't sure if the tears were genuine, but like I said, yeah, this time it's like

SPEAKER_06: 30:00

This time when she cries, it's like she's actively trying not to, you know, like she doesn't want to show her emotions, but it's coming out. That's kind of the vibe. So like her eyes are red and welled up, but she's like really fighting it.

SPEAKER_01: 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 30:16

And I don't think she's that good of an actor to pull that off. So it felt more genuine this season. Yeah. Which did make her.

SPEAKER_05: 30:26

Reflecting back too. I mean, this has been a huge year for all of them. So watching yourself, watching the like comments, watching how big I mean, they made this reference to Thunderstruck of like how everyone's doing it, you know, and how they're they're like, let's, I I loved this part where they were like, let's show them how to do it the right way, you know. I just got choke all over my body. Like, you know, I'm sure for them this was a big growth phase of not anticipating that the show was gonna take off the way that it did or it was gonna have the reaction that it did. So I yeah, I think I am gonna take the positive route of like maybe this was like the mirror that she needed to hold up for her to like bring in some like softness. Um, because she kept talking about like she one of the things she noticed was her feedback to her dancers.

SPEAKER_06: 31:14

Yes, yeah, like she wasn't transparent enough, and then people were feeling kind of blindsided.

SPEAKER_02: 31:19

Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you brought that up because that was during one of the two episodes I saw, and it was her interview on one of the morning shows. They were like, What's something that you like learned? And she was like, the dancers are it's cheerleaders, are always so surprised by me telling them, which means I'm not giving them feedback along the way, which is you know something I think about a lot as a dance teacher, too. Um you know, they shouldn't be so surprised.

SPEAKER_06: 31:48

Yeah, yeah. If true in all like I I think about that in my work.

SPEAKER_05: 31:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 31:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05: 31:57

So all right, so let's keep it moving. Um auditions. We got one question done. Good. Yeah, we're at 30 minutes into the episode. Um, okay, so Abby Summers. Who's that? Yeah, what? Uh, there is a group chat with uh the Ohio State dance team, and it's just an ongoing joke. Not the Ohio State dance team, with the girls who we danced with on Alpha Island. We did not come from a time of Instagram influencers. So whenever we see Abby Summers get 30,000 likes on a post, we're like, oh my god! And inevitably she probably has even more now. Yeah, and inevitably someone in the group chat goes, Who's Abby Summers? So now it's just like a who when we say your name. Um now we all now the world knows who this uh 130,000 followers, 128 to be exact. Get it, girl.

SPEAKER_06: 32:52

Get it, girl.

SPEAKER_05: 32:53

Get it, and that's just on Instagram.

SPEAKER_06: 32:56

Oh, yeah, I don't have any other platforms to check.

SPEAKER_05: 33:00

Um okay, so what was it like seeing Ohio State dance team get featured on a Netflix series and all the college dance team coverage in episodes one and two? And second part of that question is what does this mean for young dancers in their features to make it, quote unquote, professionally?

SPEAKER_02: 33:19

Okay, so I absolutely loved it. I couldn't help but wonder if Abby had some say as to what clips they used to wonder if Melissa did. Oh what'd you say? I didn't hear that.

SPEAKER_06: 33:34

Like what clips they used.

SPEAKER_02: 33:36

Yeah, I loved like, I mean, I'm sure like I'm assuming Ohio State had to give permission, you know, they are athletics and stuff, but I meant more from uh I felt like what clips they used to represent Abby, because I have always Abby love her like from day one when she made the team at Ohio State and uh following her, I think I think we saw her all four of her years um live going to UDA Nationals, um, and so minus COVID year. Um, and she just has always had a star quality about her. I love her as a mover. Um, I felt like um one of the first times the team did a mic'd up in practice was with Abby. She's hilarious. She's motivating, she's positive, her teammates adore her. And I so I've always really liked Abby Summers. And so the whole who's Abby Summers thing would just drive me a little particularly insane because she was like literally one of my favorite OSU dance team members to just follow. And like I loved her her journey on the team.

SPEAKER_06: 34:44

Uh noted that it drives you insane. So we will keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:47

I know I shouldn't have said that out loud, but uh um, but anyway, I felt like I loved all the clips of her um that they used. Um, I loved that they did they posted that. Like, remember when the team got to do that like Fenty? Yeah, that was the Fenty ad. I was like, and she was like, I got chills too. And I felt like yeah. Um, and just one of the best, one of our one of my favorite um UD OSU UDA Nationals routines is the red dresses, um, the clock, and the those that turn seekers was amazing. And um just in general, just I thought OSU just looked fab, and it was like featuring uh Abby who was a great leader on the team. So I I thought we were like OSU was repped repped so well. Um the clips from LSU Tiger Girls. Oh, I know I was gonna bring that up, was fabulous. Like I um follow the choreographers for LSU and they shared like our choreography was on, you know, DCC. And so um, so overall, I guess I'm just saying the shout out to the college dance team was it just made me so happy. Um and it's cool to see some of these top-tier college dance team dancers not being done, like not hanging up their shoes after graduating college and getting um to you're seeing a lot of them interested in NFL or MBA or something to do after the fact, which I think will increase the the no, not increase the caliber of dancer that continues on like after college, because I think that's I think it will.

SPEAKER_06: 36:32

I think it will I think that I mean I think that college dance has transformed so my gosh, yes, incredibly in the last, I don't know, decade. I don't I don't know what spawned it, but like the quality of an of a collegiate dancer is incredible. And so it it makes perfect sense to me that now that is a natural pipeline to things like the roquettes and DCC and stuff. But I love that it the requirement now, not not the requirement, the expectation now is not that you have these years between 18 and 25 to dance, and then your career is dead. And so when you graduate high school, you have to go straight to New York or you have to go straight to LA in order to make it happen. It's like now college dance is part of your career. It's like it's a it's an incredible platform. The the the caliber of the routines is insane. We bring in the best choreographers, like it's it is like part of your career, and they have um NIL now, so yeah, if you can get your you know face out there and people take a liking to your content, you can actually make money while you do it. So it's like making money in dance is hard enough as it is, let alone if you take four years to go to college. I just feel like the the dance world game has like totally changed in the last few years.

SPEAKER_02: 37:55

And I feel like that, you know, just as a studio dance teacher and um, you know, just got back from the dance awards um a few days ago, too. Um, I feel like another big catalyst to college dance team in that caliber would I would say would be Ellie Wagner and Ava Wagner um coming in, making that. They were Dance Awards best dancers, and then chose college dance team. And now this whole like world of dance is considering college dance team. These highly trained, technical, stylized dancers are thinking about college dance team, which changes the landscape, and then you know, it's just like a studio dance takeover, and I love it. Like I really want it, I love it.

SPEAKER_06: 38:42

Yeah, yeah, it's bringing so much artistry. Sorry. Artistry totally getting off track, Manny. You want to rein us back in or what?

SPEAKER_05: 38:51

I want you to stop telling me what to do. Okay. Oh my god. I think you guys were answering the question. I was gonna let it go. I was just I'm just saying, I just think uh now here's my opportunity to be a little Thomas Hobbes because all of that, there was a a point in this uh season where um Abby Summers um body was commented on. Did you make it there yet, Steph? Yes. Okay. Um, and so I think that this is where I have a really difficult time with um the professional cheerleaders because they still want to be there uh um they're getting these collegiate dancers, but they have a company for cheerleading. And cheerleading for the NBA is one thing, cheerleading for NFL is another thing, and they want these dancers to now be molded to their style and their signature. And sometimes the dancers are not prepared for that based off of the training and what they have experienced in collegiate dance. And I think that that transition we did not get to see a lot of um in season two, and I'd be curious to see how they address that in season three. So, what I'm saying is um that comment that was made about Abby Summers being too quote unquote muscular. Yeah, and then she talked about how, like, well, in the Ohio State dance team, we reject and let me tell you something, that was intentional.

SPEAKER_06: 40:30

That's yeah, you're gonna be strong to get through those routines, man.

SPEAKER_05: 40:34

That and they and they consider them athletes, yeah, and they take a holistic approach to building up their athlete mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually, right? And so I think that um the NBA, I'm sorry, uh the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders took away at least three of those components and their training camp and and what they do for their dancers. And um I found that part a little dark.

SPEAKER_06: 41:04

Yeah. I mean, all of the stuff is always upsetting to me on that show. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 41:11

Like, yeah, I noticed I I did get to that episode where um you know Abby was like, yeah, we were jacked, and they showed the footage of her like flexing her muscles. And I remember particularly the the year that they wore those red dresses. Yeah, um their backs and stuff. And like there was a po a picture of their strength coach like standing there with um with them, and their backs are turned and flexed and stuff, and and we were like just so proud, like how strong and healthy and uh you know fit and um what it takes to and that dance was gorgeous, like it was beautiful, like and it took that much um strength and athleticism to make it look like that. I say that to my dances all the time. It's be you need to be strong to be beautiful. So I remember in that in that interview, she was like, I could I I realized that I don't need to lift. And the interviewer said, Were you told that or did you just figure it out? And she said, I figured it out.

SPEAKER_06: 42:18

I was told it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:20

Yeah, like yeah, yeah. And so yeah, you could tell that she's like pushback was like pushback, yeah. And so like her body um has changed. I don't want to say I don't I don't want to say that she's she's so much slimmer now, and I don't want to say that she's unhealthy because like I follow in her Instagram and like you know, she does exercise a lot, like she shows the food she eats and like she, you know, travels with her friends and does fun social things. Like, I don't feel like she's I don't want to call her unhealthy, but it is crazy to see someone who is so like strong and muscular to be more slim and like that, like um, but she talks about the difference in style of dance too. Like she, you know, she's like talked about that on the dance team, you know, there was like oh, and she of that you know, attack, especially in the palm. Um, she said that they barked.

SPEAKER_04: 43:13

And she I loved that. That made me that made me laugh.

SPEAKER_02: 43:17

I and she said that there's a sassy and a sexiness that um you know that style of dance is just as valuable and merit, maritable, and so or maritable, that's not a word, but there's merit to dancing that style too. And so when you're changing how you move and changing like whatever, um, and I have to point out, I remember when we were on the team, um, and a girl who was older than us, I'm not gonna say her name, but she graduated, left the team, and then came back, and she was like so skinny. And we were like, whoa, like, dang, she is way skinny. And she basically said something like, Yeah, because like, you know, we also lifted three times a week, you know, even as a club, we were training and doing cardio and strength and all that stuff, and so when that stopped, her body just changed. Like she was like, I just my body is just not it's just not doing what it did when, you know. And she's still, if you see her today, she's still very slim. Like, and so all the muscles she built from like how hard we trained and worked, right? Um, and so I just bring that up to say, like, I don't know. I just I know her body is different now, but she's moving differently, her training is different, she's not really lifting as much. I know she does a lot of Pilates and yoga and stuff like that, and so your body's gonna change. Yeah, so yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_05: 44:48

Um, all right, so I want to talk about the boyfriends. Yeah. Why are they careful? So ugly. Um that's all I want to talk about. Okay, next one. I don't need I'm sorry, I don't need to be careful about that. There's a whole TikTok about the boyfriends. Is there?

SPEAKER_06: 45:19

Because like I'm I'm trying, I'm trying so hard not to judge people by their like what they were born with. But um I definitely noticed the difference. You're lucky, bro. Why? Like, I don't know. Why is it so dark too?

SPEAKER_05: 45:43

Like I um I think that's a great question. What was the girl's name from last season who was like reading the button? Reese. Reese. Okay, pick. Do you remember the scene with her um husband at their wedding? With the tie around his head a few times. Yes, with the tie around his head. He like had a tie around his head doing like cotton eye joe. I was like, you're oh my god. I don't have a lot of confidence that Reese is gonna stay married. He, I don't think is going to last in her life very long. I I could kind of sense it. Like as the season went on, I was like, ooh, they're showing some cracks. No my gosh.

SPEAKER_06: 46:29

You guys, Karen, you didn't sense it? I I don't know. I don't I have I'm not uh I I don't wanna like oh my god what's the matter? She just uh she she just bothers me. Oh bothers you. So I don't feel really I don't feel like opining like her marriage.

SPEAKER_05: 46:56

I just really I think she is a small just a small town, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:06

She no wait, no, it'd be like just a small town girl living in a lonely living in a lonely world.

unknown: 47:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06: 47:27

Um, I'm gonna title this episode Life as an Alto.

SPEAKER_02: 47:31

Life as an Alto Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05: 47:39

That was great. Um, I don't even know. Let's keep it moving. I can't even, I can't even we have about like five minutes to go through 10 more questions.

SPEAKER_06: 47:51

Pick your favorites.

SPEAKER_05: 47:52

Okay, I'm gonna go with Dayton and her mom because again, Steph hasn't seen most of the season, so I want to like talk about Dayton and her mom, especially because last season we had a similar dynamic with Victoria and her mom.

SPEAKER_03: 48:09

So like is this a mental disorder?

SPEAKER_06: 48:13

It is I don't want to be like, but like it is the mom. This is like the classic mother-daughter, like mom trying to live vicariously through their daughter, and like god, she was mean to her daughter. Um Shelly. Shelly, yeah, thank you. She was super mean to Dayton.

SPEAKER_02: 48:34

Like, you think I I haven't gotten to any time part of the season where her mom is being mean to Dayton. I I'm still in the audition phase when um, so I don't know what happens for Dayton. Um and I but and I I felt like Kelly and Judy were like kind of like could feel mom looking over their shoulder. Um I there's a weird dynamic there too. Very weird dynamic. I see that she's pretty um hands-on with the team choreography like choreography rehearsing and all that stuff. So that's probably like I feel like that dynamic is very different than Victoria's because she was just one was just alumni, but this lady, you know, and I kind of like felt like so. I again I haven't seen any mean stuff from mom to Dayton, but I am afraid of that because as I'm a dance teacher and my daughter's dancing um this year, you know, she's little, but like, you know, I know like as time goes, like I know so much about dance, and like I'm gonna want to help her, and she's gonna probably not want my help. And um, I think that there's it's gonna be challenging to have her do an activity that I am so passionate about, and like you and like Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders is a prestigious opportunity in the dance community, and so you want the best for your daughter, and you think that she should make it um and want her to be a part of the something that you've done before. So I kind of like I had a really soft spot for watching her have to watch her daughter like come through on the flip side. Um, I don't know what happens with Dayton, but for my at episode two, I see that she made training camp, and I don't understand why. Me either.

SPEAKER_05: 50:31

That was that's I was gonna be like, Dayton should not even have made it past the video phase.

SPEAKER_02: 50:36

And I felt like um her mom specifically said, like, if you don't see her on the team, then don't bring her to training camp.

SPEAKER_05: 50:44

Yeah, but her mom has crazy eyes. Like, if you don't have yeah, exactly, yeah, she does have crazy eyes.

SPEAKER_06: 50:49

Like she says the right things out loud, but she doesn't mean them.

SPEAKER_02: 50:52

Okay, because and I feel bad saying this because again, I felt for Dayton. It's like she probably feels a lot of pressure from her mom to make it and whatever, but Dayton, her technique and her quality of movement and stuff, she is rough.

SPEAKER_05: 51:06

Yes, I thought the same, I was like, we wouldn't even like I I don't even know if she would make the dance team when we was dancing.

SPEAKER_02: 51:12

Like, no, she wouldn't have a strong dance.

SPEAKER_05: 51:15

I feel like not a strong dance team. And I hated how people were like her heart wasn't in it. No, nothing was in it. Nothing didn't have it, she doesn't have it.

SPEAKER_02: 51:24

That solo, like after atrocious after watching Abby, after watching Abby? I was like, what the heck are you doing?

SPEAKER_06: 51:32

And Abby's solo. Oh, Abby's solo. I felt like I felt like uncomfortable watching it in the best way. Like she was fierce.

SPEAKER_02: 51:44

I'm such a big Abby Summers fan. Like, I just adore her. I might as well. Like, I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_06: 51:51

I think she's gonna yeah, you could get it on your neck so we would never forget her name. Yeah. What's weird about the move again?

SPEAKER_05: 52:03

I'm like, oh my god, y'all, she's the queen. Like, she's a queen. I just had flashes of the Billy Madison guy like putting on the red lipstick.

SPEAKER_04: 52:14

That's that's Steph with the like touching the glove.

SPEAKER_05: 52:22

Unfortunately, I don't think we're gonna be able to get um through my last 20 questions.

SPEAKER_02: 52:29

I know. Let me look at this.

SPEAKER_05: 52:31

And it's okay because Steph hasn't watched, and so we're going to preserve the virginity of our sweet co-host and allow for her to watch the season without spoiling any um other.

SPEAKER_06: 52:46

But the three of us need to regroup when she watches it because I have to debrief on the last episode particularly.

SPEAKER_05: 52:53

Okay, yeah, I know. I agree, I agree, I agree. Um, but well, actually, I think I am about to spoil something, but let's talk about our confessionals. Any confessionals that you guys want to share from this conversation today or the season that um, you know, may or may not spoil the rest of it for Steph.

SPEAKER_06: 53:14

I have a very benign one, but the boyfriends got me. So like it's like one of those things that when you're watching it, you feel it, but you don't like I didn't quite like put your finger that feeling, you know, and recognize it, and then you just said it out loud. It's like, why? Why are all of these guys such duds? I mean, and they seem like um like I don't know if it's intentional the way that they recorded it, but they seem like personality-less as well. Like they're just like yeah, they they have like nothing to say, they have no opinions, they're just like following these hot girls around.

SPEAKER_02: 53:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 53:54

So embarrassing.

unknown: 53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 53:57

Anyways, that's oh my gosh, it's like kind of like the like flip of like an older man getting a young, hot woman who's like 50 years younger than him.

SPEAKER_03: 54:11

It's like there's like a there's like a there's like a a a thing there, right? Where like cheerleaders are.

SPEAKER_06: 54:18

But the old man in that in that um equation is like wealthy, right? Like that's what he brings to the table. What do these young guys what do these young guys bring to the table? Big dicks. No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05: 54:31

I highly doubt that reasonable man had sex. I don't know. I doubt that, and that's why I think there's cracks.

SPEAKER_06: 54:41

Like, do you think they're just like staged boyfriends? Like the the show is like, I want you to have a boyfriend, so this one's gonna be yours for this.

SPEAKER_05: 54:52

No, I think it's I think it's real. I think they like a lot of it has to do with like them being young and like you know, knowing each other, I guess, and I don't know. I don't even, I can't. I already said my piece. Steph, what's your confession? Or do you have a confession? Sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 55:12

Um, yeah, at the boyfriends, I was really like, wow, not quite what I had imagined for these beautiful ladies. Um, and and I think for me, like I didn't realize how much I like like I really enjoyed the two episodes and that I would like to finish the season. Like I kind of thought that I was like gonna just watch the two so that we could discuss those episodes and kind of be done with it, but I'm intrigued. Um so that's good. I liked it. I liked it. I liked it better than the first season. Yeah, yeah, I think Ohio State played a lot in that for me at least.

SPEAKER_06: 55:56

For me, it was all of like the discussion around um you know wanting better pay and not um not shying away from that. And like it showed, I thought it showed the girls on the team in a really like intellectual way that they didn't tackle last year. So I appreciated the tone was much less about obviously like their bodies and their beauty is woven throughout because they are an image of that team, right? But I just felt like they really leaned into like their intellect this time, and I I really appreciated that.

SPEAKER_05: 56:37

I agree. I think to my first the first two episodes, though, I'm saying I was alert like Ohio State kind of drove that for me. Um as it like unraveled more of the storyline, I was like, okay, I really I appreciate this season. Um and my confession would be, you know, Steph, when you were talking about this, I shared this with a couple of friends already, but Steph, you were talking about the dance awards and Ava and um Ellie Wagner and how that like uh from high school changed like how this started this trend almost of how people are starting or dancers are starting to go to college dance teams. And I would say, as a proud alumni of Ohio State, Ohio State is responsible for um changing the style of dance and how that to bring and attract more dancers who have a higher caliber of skill and technique. I would take it even further to loop it into the conversation that um Karen is talking about with equal pay. I would take it even further to say I was watching this going back to the memories of our days on Ohio State dance team, where we sat down with the athletic department and we talked to the athletic director. And Celia had a tri, uh like one of those trifold boards of like all the big 10, all the major programs that their dance teams are a part of their football and cheer programs. We fought for that. And now we get to see one of our alumni as a part of this new wave of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, who by the way, her and Jada are like best friends. Yeah, I I loved that little bit at the end, like where they're tight. We get to witness how far inspiration can go when you just plant a seed. And I feel like a couple episodes or seasons ago, we talked or a season ago, we talked about that. That like the the way humanity has to change is knowing that you're not going to be able to experience the immediate effect, and you you might not be the beneficiary of it immediately. But if you do it, you will get to witness other people experience it. And I think that that's what's so cool about this whole thing for me, and that's what Jada talked about.

SPEAKER_06: 59:12

Jada talked about that a lot. I loved that, right?

SPEAKER_05: 59:16

And I thought that that was just like wow, like we are not that far apart, like we are not that separated. Like this was this was us essentially decades ago fighting for our place, and now look at where it has gotten other dancers. Ohio State is the most like sought after dance program next to Minnesota, right? Because of their alumni base and because of the fought fight that was put in to make sure these dancers got recognition. And I think that that is just like, man, when you just think that you can't do something, just do it because it's truly quite cool to watch it unravel like that.

SPEAKER_02: 59:56

Manny man, that thank you. That like wow that. Was a word that was a sermon. Um, and I feel like how beautiful to like this being our season finale too, that it kind of comes back to the Ohio State University where we met and like our our passion for speaking up and out and all that stuff. Like this is that was thank you for that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:22

Yeah, thank you guys. Thank you guys for letting us pivot. We were gonna recap, and I was like, no.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:31

You just gave me one more petty confessional because you you were talking about Ohio State kind of setting the tone. And I will say that when I was watching those first couple of episodes, I was so pumped that it was Abby in Ohio State, and I was so pumped that it was um the girl from LSU.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:49

Uh, because like like a boy, that routine they showed it. Oh, it's like my I still like that's my favorite routine of all time. And I was so glad that there was nobody representing Minnesota.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:03

That is petty, yes. That is really petty as but I don't care. Well, maybe next season your wish will come true. Um, thank you guys. This was lovely, and um, it was so great to record this season. Um, and I hope listeners that you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for supporting our show. If you laughed, nodded, rolled your eyes, or screamed, same, don't leave us on read. Like, subscribe, and follow us wherever you listen. And don't forget to hit up our show page for all of the articles referenced. We didn't reference any fucking shit in this show. I may have referenced something about I found out that Kelly was a Democrat. You can fact check me and just let us know if that was true or not. I think it was real and not in a dream. Um, but uh yeah, that's all. Uh, if you miss us between now and our next season, drop by and leave us a comment on Instagram at you can call me Karen underscore pod and on YouTube and TikTok at you can call me Karen. Uh, we'll see you next season. Bye, bitches.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:21

And the box, and the green, and the and the box, and the blue one, and the bar, and the yellow one, and they're all made out of ticky tacky, and they all look just the same.