The Dr. Doug Edge: Real Talk with Real Leaders
Across law, business, and finance, Dr. Doug Hirschhorn — advisor to the elite — goes beyond the surface to decode the strategies behind success. No scripts. No fluff. Just what works.
The Dr. Doug Edge: Real Talk with Real Leaders
Nick Gouche: Selling Freedom, One Home at a Time
There are a few people you meet in life who make you feel like a better version of yourself every time you speak with them. That’s my friend, Nick Gouche, founder and CEO of Nation of Homeowners. At his core, Nick stands for freedom—the ability to chart your own path and live with purpose.
What keeps Nick up at night? The future his children will inherit.
What gives him confidence? A deep-seated belief in himself, anchored by the grounding and loving influence of his wife.
Nick’s story provides powerful answers. Growing up as the fourth generation of men without fathers in his home, moving 13 times before graduating high school, and witnessing his brother become a quadriplegic after a drive-by shooting, Nick understands what it means to overcome the odds. Today, after helping over 4,200 families become homeowners and creating $400 million in wealth for his clients, he stands as living proof of what’s possible when you refuse to accept limitations.
In our conversation, we explore the tightrope between ego and self-awareness—ego as the fuel to attempt the improbable, and self-awareness as the inner voice that empowers you to get out of your own way. We talk about failure as a teacher, and we explore Nick’s “hourglass window” philosophy: when you count life in days, you stop wasting them—whether that means scaling a company or protecting Friday night family dinner like it’s the most important meeting of the week.
Nick also shares his belief in building a “culture of obsession.” For him, obsession isn’t unhealthy—it’s the standard. It means surrounding yourself with people who are hungry, driven, and unwilling to settle for mediocrity. It means refusing to coast, and instead creating a culture where belief is contagious and excellence is the only acceptable outcome.
I believe our most valuable commodity is time, and I’m confident you will find that listening to Nick in this episode will be an investment that pays exponential returns long after this conversation ends. I say that from experience. This guy is exceptional.
here we go. Uh, man, nick, it is so good to see you. It has been, uh, maybe maybe two years. I've never met you in person. That's the craziest. We met during covid, that's right. I'm gonna get a little background, then I'm gonna let you do all the talking here, because, because you are awesome, uh, we, we met during covid. You were, you were at, uh, I was hired to work with a portfolio company, a PE back portfolio company, mortgage company based in, uh, well, I guess, all over the country, but you're based in Las Vegas or LA. You're based in LA, los Angeles, la, that's right. And uh, man, I met you and I thought, holy shit, I love this guy and uh, but we never. We never got a chance to meet in person, but we certainly had many, many conversations over the years and even after I stopped working with them, I still kept in touch and did some work with you. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Coach, the pleasure is mine. You've made quite the impact on my life.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate it as well. Man, you make an impact. Every person you touch, you make an impact. You can't what people did, what people didn't hear beforehand. I said, man, you never have a bad day, do you? It's like you've never. Nick never has a bad day. And uh, you said exactly the right it's.
Speaker 1:Bad days are choices, you know you get to choose your attitude, and I love that. Um, nick, I want to start off. Just tell me what you do Like, what is it? Tell me your story, what you do, what do you stand for?
Speaker 2:If I would have put it into a word, I would say that I stand for freedom. Okay, freedom to be the master of your life. Okay, I'll give you some context around that, Coach. Right now there are 72 million kids under 18 in this country. Uh, one-third are born into poverty.
Speaker 2:46 are going to stay there their entire lifetime which means that, which means that at birth, they are stripped away from their agency, and it's unique because today happens to be a special day. Today's um, my brother Victor Gouche's birthday. If he was alive, he'd be 40 today. My brother was shot in a drive-by shooting five times okay, many, many years ago, and he became a quadriplegic. And I grew up at a time where people around me were still trapped in that same zip code, because we have lost, at birth, our agency and we believed that our options were few, and so I would tell you that I stand for for freedom, that I get to write my own path. That's what I do.
Speaker 1:I love it, the uh, I know you're what, I know your level of success and accomplishment in the home ownership world. I would love for you to tell your version of how, of how you see that and I and I remember you connect the dots for me. You know about home ownership being the key, as one of the key levers to get out of poverty. Talk to me, talk to me about that and talk to me about your business, as you have a nation of homeowners, I think it's called.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll give you some some context. I've been doing lending for almost 20 years. I was 20 years old when I first started and and since then we have helped 4,217 families achieve their dream of owning a home.
Speaker 2:We've created 400 million in wealth for our clients and we've given them a new future for themselves. For us, coach, we spend a lot of time in this country talking about wealth from a race perspective, but the truth is it's no longer about race, it's about real estate, the gap between the renter and the homeowner. Let me give you some context around this, if I can so. According to Pew Research, right now, the average white family has $285,000 of net worth, the average black family $48,000. It's a 5x delta, okay, between the black and white, and that tends to be our focus in this country. But right now, as we speak, the average homeowner has 400,000 and the renter 10,000. That's a 40 X gap and there's no one having this conversation at scale. That's telling Americans that we have a common problem and he's a common solution. And so for us, nation of Homeowners was my way to bring a solution at scale to the entire country for us.
Speaker 1:Are there any misconceptions about real estate being a viable path to wealth? And how do you deal with maybe some people that say, oh, that's nice, but I don't know anything about it. That takes a long time. I'd rather just do something short term or try to find a way to make money now that helps me now rather than generations. How do you talk to people about?
Speaker 2:that I wrote a book on this. I have a book, you see right behind me, but if it's in the audio, there's a book that we wrote called Nation of Homeowners.
Speaker 2:There's a chapter in here that perhaps gets overlooked, and that is this. And there's a chapter in here that perhaps gets overlooked and that is this Coach For us, wealth is one component, but there's a larger mission here, and real estate is really tied to autonomy, to freedom. I mean, this goes back. You know I'm not sure if you know, but I love history. Okay, if we go back a thousand years and we look at, for example, robin Hood, the movie Robin Hood, there's a scene when the king of England is trying to get Robin Hood to come fight on behalf of the kingdom, and what they're fighting for is they want property rights, ok, and the king says to him what should every man have his own castle? And Russell Crowe in this movie, who plays Robin Hood, he says every man's home is his castle. Okay, and Braveheart, right, sir William Wallace, between Scotland and England they're fighting for property rights because in feudalism, right, there were serfs and there were lords Even we use the term today, right, landlords today.
Speaker 2:But the reality is that people own a home today. Home today, it ties a lot deeper, from just wealth by itself to having control over your life. So there's economic benefits to that, psychological benefits to that as well, and spiritual. I mean. When people own a home, they say they have better health, their health improves, their kids do better in school, crime goes down in those communities, people vote more both local and state elections, so this is essentially a wealth component. I mean to give you some more context. I talked about how the average family today who owns a home has $400,000 in wealth, but $313,000 is in the equity in their property. So if you took the equity away from the average American today, they have 85,000 in wealth, not 400,000 bucks in wealth. And so I think because of that, this has been the most tried and true way to build wealth over time, and so my objective is to tell people about the importance of building generational wealth and compound wealth over the years.
Speaker 1:So what caught my attention with what you were saying there was about the self-esteem, the confidence, the feeling inside about what homeownership does and look, it's a proxy right. I know we're talking about homeownership in this specific because that's what you do but the concept of the importance of attitude and choosing that attitude or having things in your life that actually will stabilize that confidence and help you start to believe and think about a bigger version or a greater version of where you are. Nick, you're infectious man. I remember when I first met you I said to my wife always like Holy shit, I just met like a rocket ship. I just met a dude who, like whose energy level is off the charts and and um, he, he's an, he inspires you and it's like he just makes you feel like you get off the phone You're like wow, I feel good. I'm not quite sure why. I just got some of Nick's energy.
Speaker 1:That piece of you is actually remarkable. I know you've got a pretty big team now and I know you've managed a bunch of people over the years and so you know what good talent looks like, you know what bad talent looks like, what great talent looks like. But if I were to ask your team to describe you. I have my experience with you, but I didn't, I didn't. You know, I worked with you, not, not for you, but how would they? What would they say? What would your team describe you as?
Speaker 2:Wow, coach, I'm going to call them to find out what the hell they think about me. No, I'm teasing, I would say they. They would probably say Nick is a master motivator. Okay, probably perhaps number one, I think number two. They would say he has conviction in his beliefs. Okay, and his convictions make me believe, and I think that's really the objective as a leader. It's more like of a Jack Welch thought process right To become infectious with the entire team. Is you got to make people believe People today are. They're searching for somebody to believe in them, something to hope for, something that gives them meaning beyond the day, and I think if you can try to get inside of the skin of your team, you could help them reach heights that they didn't think were possible, and by doing that, they have a higher sense of belief in themselves. And I think that's perhaps the primary role of a leader is to try to make people infectious around the culture and the vision so we can all get there together.
Speaker 1:Do you believe in developing people? Do you believe that people can, they can be inspired, but do you believe that they can continue to grow? And if you do, do you actually believe in putting the time and investing? And it's not a trick question, Nick, it really isn't. It could be philosophical that look, some people I believe are a good use of time and some people aren't. How do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, coach, I struggle with that because there's uh, there's an argument for both. Uh and so. So I tend to to to take the mindset that there's not much that I know in life.
Speaker 2:So I read a lot. Okay, to try to to try to find successful models. So if I were to look at Steve Schwartzman okay, I'm from Blackstone, uh, he'll tell you that once someone turns 40, they are who, they are right, and your job is to is to, you know, find the ones who are the real players, right. So the question becomes can you develop an, a player, after they fully develop themselves, after 25 to 30? Right, that's a question. It is a real. It's a real question.
Speaker 2:And when you and I were together, we built this company. You know that we had together that you know you helped me find some way to success and I were together. We built this company. You know that we had together, that you know you helped me find some way to success and I spent a lot of time trying to develop people and give them my energy, give them my affection, give them strategy, help themBriggs figuring out how these people operate and how do I go inside of them to help them get to the fullness of their potential. That helps advance the mission, because I believe that every leader's primary objective is to raise the cognitive skill set of the entire team collectively to reach the desired outcome.
Speaker 2:I think that's the primary objective and so and so for me, I'm at a point right now where I'm really focused on building a culture of obsession and building people around me who are also obsessive, because we're on a mission and we don't have a lot of time. You know, we have just a few days in the sun, coach, I know it's. I mean, look, uh, uh, last time I was you, I was, you know, saw you, man, like I had a beard. Now I have no hair. I have less hair today.
Speaker 2:Now, coach, I can't believe like, where did the time go, you know, and so? So the reality is that, uh, so, from that perspective, people can be developed. They can, uh, but uh, I think you have to make that choice on on what kind of culture do you want to build, right? So if you ask kobe bryant say say, kobe, what was your strategy to you know, bring people to come to your team. It was simple. Kobe said if you want to win championships, come play with me. If not, go somewhere else. Right, obsession. You know LeBron James. He might have a different approach for JR Smith or the other players who he tends to recruit. So, so, for me, at this point in time, I'm focused on building obsession, and I think my job is to share the vision and then find those people a part of that tribe.
Speaker 1:So when you interview someone and you bring someone onto your team, what are some questions that you ask or what are you looking for to determine if they are going to embrace that obsession philosophy? And I understand what you mean. I've told many an executive having people that are smart is great, but work effort will count a lot more. Yeah, time and time again, that's right. So you're you're talking about obsession, that passion that that they're all in on this. I mean they have a life, they have families, stuff like that right, but but they've you want people around you that are just as focused as you are. So what are some ways you figure that out when you, when you interview someone?
Speaker 2:I think, one one. I think there has to be some past record of their performance, that that that they can get there. So their track record, I think, matters. I think number two beyond the track record is what is their story? That story, I think, matters. I think people who have a lot to prove, you know, who still have more that they want to do, I think plays a big part too. And so you know, the team that we have now, the team who we have on the, the team who we have on the team now who helps us run the company, these are all people who still have a lot more in themselves. Coach, they want to prove. They feel they have not arrived yet. Okay, they feel there's still more for them to do. And so a lot of my time I want to know about their story, about their childhood, wakes them up in the morning, their convictions, their motives, their why, why. This matters because for us, if we can't go deep into the why, the how won't matter much. And so that I agree with yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's more of a simon senate kind of start with the why? Approach, because the truth is, coach what we want to achieve something that's meaningful, that's significant. There's a price for this, and not everybody wants to pay that price, and so I think, for me, no different than Elon Musk, kobe Bryant, steve Jobs these individuals who have a conviction about what they want and they are maniacally focused on achieving the objective, they're flexible in how we get there, but very focused on what the mission is, and then having a standard that everybody has to play by, I think that's championship culture, and so, for me, that's how I try to think about it.
Speaker 1:So you brought up the why part, y part, and you referenced Simon, simon, sinek, the. You know, the first time I heard the expression, it was actually Friedrich Nietzsche and the German. The English translation of the German was person who has a Y can deal with any how. And I thought to myself man, that was a game changer. You know, it's like we all walk around saying you know, how can I get in better shape, how can I make more money, how can I be more successful, how can I have a better relationship? And what Friedrich was saying very simply was, if you focus in on your why why you're doing, why that's important to you, why you're doing this then how you get there actually takes care of itself. That's right.
Speaker 1:That, to me, is such a it's such an evergreen truism and that's why I started up my, you know the, these podcasts I started very recently and people are asking me well, you know, what's your point, what's your target audience? And I was like I don't really have a target audience. You know why are you doing it? And the answer is because it's fun. You know, it's like I I I've met a lot of great, interesting people in my life and I'm an introvert. I'm not. I'm not really. I'm not really a social network type of person. Really, I'm really. Yeah, people are shocked by that because they see me on stage and do performance, but I am a true introvert. If you met my wife, you'd be like, oh, now I get it, she's the introvert.
Speaker 2:There's only room for one. I got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is only room for one in a happy household. And so I have found out that this opens up. I've spoken to people that I've known. The key is it's got to be someone that I've known a long time, respect but really like, because I want it to be just a conversation. So this is like my version of catching up with you, but hearing also things that are, that are that are interesting and compelling, and then and then having a conversation and thinking because I'm a lifelong learner as well, that's right, I, I, I people someone called me a, a, a social, a people, anthropologist I, I sit and study people.
Speaker 1:I just like that concept of, of, of hearing how people think and what they do and what they think about things. And then when you meet someone like you who's self-made I mean clearly self-made, exceptionally successful but I say that with hesitation, nick, because you really are like in the third inning of what your success potential is. You know, I I've never done that for a second. Really, you're just one of those people you say that guy's got it, like he's got the it factor, the x factor, whatever factor. You want to say thank you, coach, but you're welcome. And I don't say things to be nice, I say them because they're true. The, the people like that that are obsessed with excellence and let's use that word right excellence. I find they don't really waste their time on the on the people that aren't on board with that concept.
Speaker 1:You know if they're not if they they won't surround themselves with people that don't get it, that that aren't. So the development question was actually an interesting way to think about that complexity. Yeah Right, so do you waste time trying to develop someone that's just doesn't have it? But what you're saying and I'll recap here a little bit, you want someone who's'll recap here a little bit. You want someone who's who's a little pissed off, a little hungry. Look out something to prove chip on their shoulder. They've got that drive internally inside of them. That's right. That pushes them, that's going to push them, and then all you gotta do is tap into that and set them free, put them in the right direction, set them coach freedom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I stand for. Yeah, freedom to unleash that person who's still hiding, who still wants the world to know they exist. Yeah, for us that matters. And I'll tell you this, uh quickly, because you had mentioned that when you and I were together, the company that we ran, we had a team, we, we, we recruited over 125 people who we tried to develop. Okay, so this is how I came to this thought process. We built a company. Initially, you know, I told my partner, I said listen, we're going to grow and develop and build the best mofos that the nation has ever seen. And I said I'm looking for people, you know, and I gave this framework. And I told my partners, I said I'm going to make them great, even if it kills me.
Speaker 1:Coach, I almost died. I don't doubt that man I saw some of the people you had on that staff.
Speaker 2:Good luck, man. But ultimately, to your point, you mentioned the third inning. I mean, look, I just entered my 40s. Okay, this is so. I got a 20-year run in me, so I'm just going to start. This is like halftime for me.
Speaker 2:You know my partner, you know Ben, who you met. He would tell me that, nick. He would tell me that life happens in three stages. Right, he would really four stages. He would say from birth to 20 are your years of learning and cognitive development. You know, 20 to 40 are your years of skill acquisition, right, developing skills. And then, by the time you turn 40 to 60, that's your time to, you know, put those skills to the marketplace in exchange for value and resources. And then, by 60, that run should have given you enough personal wealth that you can now give back and help change the world. Right, yes, I'm in. So I'm in stage three, just getting started, and I feel that I've done nothing yet. I feel there's so much more to do, and so I'm very focused on who I'm around, and my greatest utility is my energy and my time, and so we're focused on, you know, finding winners.
Speaker 1:My wife once asked me years ago. She said you know, when is it enough? And I looked at her and I never even thought of that question. You know enough. I was like that's not the point, like it's not about. It's not about reaching enough, it's about the journey, it's about the constant, and as long as I'm enjoying it, I'll keep on. You know, it doesn't matter if I'm 35 or 65 or 85. If I'm enjoying it, I'll keep on figuring out a way to do it. And age. So I'm 53. Oh, you're a young man. I'm a young man, I'm a bit ahead of you in my life cycle.
Speaker 1:My kids are growing up. My oldest is 23. My youngest is 16. Growing up my oldest is 23. My youngest is 16. But I remember hearing a word of wisdom from a very, very well-known owner of a hedge fund. I've never met him. His name's Izzy Englander. I've never met him, but I worked with people that knew him very well and what he had told my client who I worked with was and Izzy's older. He's got to be in his 80s now or late 70s. He runs a hedge fund called Millennium, just for context, which is a very well-known, established, successful hedge fund. He was talking about time and how much time you have in your life. And he said when you hit your 50s, you have about 15, 20 good summers left. And I thought, holy crap, when you think of your life in terms of summers, right, that's a whole different. That's a whole different way to think about things you know a sense of urgency about, if not now, when? And I see you shaking your head, so tell me what you're thinking.
Speaker 2:No, coach, that's so good. Have you ever read Eugene O'Kelly's book Chasing Daylight? I have not. Okay, put it on the list. It's a phenomenal read. Eugene Kelly becomes the president of KPMG, the largest accounting firm in America. At that time, you know works the 35 years to be finally become the CEO. He's 57. He's still a pretty young guy. The guy runs a marathon, so he's in great shape. He has these headaches that he cannot get rid of. He goes to the doctor and do a brain scan. He has tumors size of golf balls. He has three months to live and he writes in those last three months and he talks about how life is measured by the days and so many days he basically kind of gave away by working, not being present in his home, and so with that, that was maybe eight years ago. I read that book, but it gave me a concept that I actually live by a philosophy called the hourglass window. So for context, in this country the average African-American I'm African, I'm an African, I'm an African-American man lives to be 72 in this country.
Speaker 1:Now.
Speaker 2:I want to. I plan to live to 98 coach. Okay, I'm going to be be 100.
Speaker 2:Me and Abraham are going to catch up one day. We're going to get up there. But if that is the case, coach, if I put that within context, that means that I have about 10,000 days. Now, when I think about that perspective, it truly moves me in such a way where I don't have time to waste my time. And so you got to find people who respect themselves and you can tell them who's being productive. Naturally, productive people are trying to get things done, and so, for me, I have young kids. You know, you mentioned your oldest. My oldest coach, in eight days is off to college In eight days, wow. So we're taking her to her dorms in eight days, and our youngest is two. So we have, you know, quite the time to do this through many, many years. But with that being said, I really find that to your point, the hedge fund owner over at what did you say? Millennium.
Speaker 1:Millennium yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean again individuals who think that way. With that philosophy, they almost force themselves into productivity, because if you can stay focused on one thing and you have enough cognitive bandwidth to do it, you have enough work, ethic and passion and conviction and charisma. You can get a lot done if you're very focused on your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I find myself to be pretty well. I'll give myself compliments. I'm very efficient with my time. Now I would not say that I'm constantly doing something that might be viewed as productive time, but when I'm locked in, I'm very efficient and can get a lot done in a brief period of time, efficiently and with high quality as well. That's right, but that's what. I've learned myself. I have windows of time that I hit that stride in that pocket.
Speaker 2:Just one thing, if I can quickly. When it comes to being productive, I don't just mean work, like for me. My time is Fridays at 6 pm. I have dinner with the family. That's productive time for me. My time is fridays at 6 pm I have dinner with the family. That's productive time for me, you know yeah, no, I get it right and so so, yeah, so I try to make sure that whatever I'm doing is meaningful, but I could be reading a book working out with my kids.
Speaker 2:That's all being productive to me that I agree with it's.
Speaker 1:It's. I spend very, very little time anymore sitting and just watching tv and absorbing, unless I'm watching a documentary or something that is interesting to me. But I talked about it, maybe previously not with you, but I'll share it with you. So, daniel Kahneman, if you ever read any of his stuff and if you haven't, he wrote a book called Thinking Fast and Slow, but he's kind of the grandfather of.
Speaker 1:Dan Kahneman. He passed away, I think last year sometime, but anyway he was well-known for research in behavioral finance and some very specific things about how people think about decision-making and and why we we make some bias, while we have biases and and and poor decisions, especially as it relates to money and economics. But anyway, the he actually I think his last interview might've been one of his last interviews. He talks about his research that he's known for was in behavioral finance, where psychology and economics come together, and he'd won a Nobel Prize in that decades before. He said his new line of research, what he was more compelled to think about, was actually satisfaction, not happiness, but satisfaction and life satisfaction. And he said people focus on happiness, but it's actually what he thinks is really interesting is the idea of being satisfied.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about this because you brought up the quality of time with your family and that's intentional time that you're doing there and being the best version of Nick father at that time. It's that's your productive time and then the level of satisfaction that comes out of that doing productive work. You know a good day's work, but it's not just punch the clock and do work. A good day's work could be. You know I was my best version of myself at work. I was my best version of myself with my significant other. I was the best version of myself as a parent or a sibling or a son or daughter. That, I think, is I've been thinking a lot about that, the concept of satisfaction, feeling satisfied with what you've done and looking back. And maybe it's a function of my age now where I'm starting to be more reflective about it. But also I think I've slowed down a bit to think about it. I've taken time to have conversations with people and ask those questions about the human experience. Nick, who are your heroes, biggest inspirations?
Speaker 2:oh, wow, um. So, for context, um, my heroes are individuals, who, who shape the world. Okay, and so I would Churchill hero Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2:Hero Frederick Douglass, hero Augustus, the first emperor of Rome for me is a hero, Gigi Ping, 1974, who became after Mao Zedong died and he comes to become the leader. He takes a nation and they rise up. 500 million people lived out of poverty. I mean, this is incredible Individuals who have the audacity to challenge the current model of thinking, who have enough conviction to close their eyes and see a new future and believe they can make that future take place. That's incredible. Yeah, I'd say they're obsessed with that.
Speaker 1:That sounds like it.
Speaker 2:They're obsessed, right, they're obsessed with that passion, yeah yeah, so I can watch documentaries about those people all day, I can read their books, because that goes against by and large, right, this is Maslow's theories, right, the hierarchy of human needs. We all want belonging. We don't want to leave the flock, and so it almost goes against human nature. When you have sought comfort and the group all is the same, it's a status quo. You have to really search within yourself, have enough courage and conviction to walk on this journey alone until you find your tribe, and that's very hard to do. And so, when you are alive, many times you don't really appreciate the person, but history does, that's true.
Speaker 1:So that's why history, for me, is yeah, it's kind of a cruel reality of life. I was talking to my trainer today and he was telling me he's a really good dude, his name is Frank and we had some great conversations. He's like my personal therapist you have a therapist Personal therapist, my trainer.
Speaker 2:He's like my personal therapist.
Speaker 1:You have a therapist Personal therapist that's good my trainer Frank and my wife Amy for 26 years. She's definitely my personal therapist. But anyway, he was talking about his kid and he's got a young kid. He was talking about the things that the conversation he has with his kid and I said you know, and how his kid's kind of dismissive because the kids, you know what, are eight years old, nine years old, like any eight or nine or 10 year old might be. You know all dad, you know that kind of thing. And I said you know what, what's going to happen. Just because I'm speaking from experience with my kids, I put the time in to develop those, those relationships, and they'll, they'll appreciate it, you know, maybe 10 years from now. And I said, but really, where he'll thank you is at hear it. It's like he's going to say you know, my dad was the greatest dad ever.
Speaker 1:And I remember when I was 12 years old and he was playing video games with me. And you know, bob, like and Frank. You're not going to be there to hear it, you know, unfortunately, but that's one of the cruel realities of life.
Speaker 2:It is Well, you know what. Let me bring this down a level. I was talking about this actually yesterday, perhaps. I had a group call yesterday. I also have the hero for the everyday man who is a father okay, especially men. So I grew up in a home without a father coaching my home. But I am for context, I am four generations of men without a father in their home. Okay, four generations of men, uh, who had to go and kind of make life on their own and I and I know this happens a lot, especially even in our country.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of, this is happening a great deal. The number of people who are growing up as single family households it's a. It's a real thing in this country, beyond race. It's a. I think America actually leads where the. We have the. We have the. We have the lowest amount of two parent households in developed nations in the world, according to Pew Research Sixty to sixty five percent. It's a small number, but the man who can wake up every day and know that they didn't grow up in a home to raise their kids, to go to work, to make an honest living, those guys I have much respect for too and I have great admiration for them as well, for sure.
Speaker 1:What keeps you up at night.
Speaker 2:Thank, you, I'd have to say what kind of future will my kids inherit?
Speaker 2:My kids keep me up at night, you know what is life going to be like for them and what can I do in my lifetime to make it so that they can still live in a country that's prosperous. It gives them opportunities, because we are really on the precipice coach of something serious in our country and I don't think we think deeply. You mentioned how time has given you time to think about your life and your kids and your meaning. I don't know if we as a nation spend much time thinking about our kids the way that we need to, so for me, that keeps me up at night for sure yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:How about you uh?
Speaker 2:how about you? What keeps you up um?
Speaker 1:regret, the fear of regretting something. So you, philosophically, I've always carried around this mentality of carpe diem, which is Latin for seize the day, and I just, I thought to myself I never want to look back at life and say I wish I had tried or I wish I had done whatever it was, and that that keeps me up at night. It's, it's the you know, am am I? Am I pushing myself in the direction I want to be, but also at the pace that I want to be doing it at, and that that's that's actually the pushing the parts, not the hard part, nick. That's the hard part, right, because you realize, when you get to the point, you realize it's like okay, there's lots of stuff you could do and spend your time on. Right Could be philanthropic, can be business, can be commercial, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:But you don't have times, the most valuable commodity. You can't turn it back, you can't buy more of it. It's a clock that's constantly ticking against you and you have competing priorities and interest in your life. That, to me, is the challenge, is to actually make the right decision about where I want to put that time, what I want to spend doing. I'm really good at cutting, I'm really good at. If I think something's not working, man, I don't mess around with it, I move on. There was a book called the dip which I read, which was great. I forgot who wrote it, but it was like you know, the whole concept of you got to grind, you got to grind this. This takes the entire perspective away from that and saying look, sometimes you got to know when to fold them. It's like you know, it's like you don't need to walk up and smell it and taste it to confirm it's crap.
Speaker 1:Like sometimes it's okay to be like that doesn't look like a good idea, I'm going to walk away from it, but I'm never afraid to try. I'm never afraid to try Like I'll try anything once and give it, maybe twice, and I'll take the feedback, but then if I think it's not got, if I think I don't have legs, I'll cut bait and move on to the next thing. So that's what keeps me up at night is is is making sure that I'm it's picking the right direction of what I want to. You know where am I going to spend my, what the next x amount of time on? What project is going to be or what focus is going to be, whether it's building business or even relationships I love people.
Speaker 2:I got you got kenny rogers going through my mind. Now you gotta know when to hold them. It was it brilliant man Know when to fold them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a life wisdom, it really is.
Speaker 2:It's a life wisdom. That's right.
Speaker 1:People should embrace A couple more questions. Yeah, and thanks for spending time with me today.
Speaker 2:No, Coach Listen it's great seeing you, man. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:It really is great to see you. What do you think are some of the things that get in the way of people being successful? I mean successful, I understand, is a loaded word, and it can be a successful parent, a successful business person.
Speaker 2:What are some of the things you think gets in the way of that? When I was coming up, maybe about 10 years ago, my first coach, mentor, when I tasted my first kind of success, he wrote me a card, and that card I'll never forget. He said, nick, as you climb this mountaintop of success, there's always this dog behind you called ego, looking to pull you back down. And so I think for me, I think most leaders, people who have tasted success, I think that ego barrier is a real thing. People who have tasted success, I think that ego barrier is a real thing. Yeah, because when you have success, it's a confirmation bias that what you do works but, it doesn't mean it works all the time and you know your point of being curious.
Speaker 2:Being a constant reader, you know being a, what you call yourself, a people studier what human anthropology?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's right, I don't call, but people have called me that.
Speaker 2:I don't call myself, but yeah I know, uh, I think that's that's. Perhaps that is a big one for me for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the, I think the ego is yeah, so I'll give you a flip side of that nick. So the I, I agree. So I, I kind of, I philosophically believe that anything of something, any any too much of something, is is, is bad, right, so I think, but I think enough of it is important. So ego, I would, I would say that I think ego is extremely important up to a point. Having the self-awareness of when it's too much, like that's, that's the cutoff point, right.
Speaker 1:So, just being all about the ego then then you, then you end up, you know, being blind to things that you, that you walk into, but you have to have some ego to walk in that direction that that people tell you, oh, you don't want to do that that's a mistake, or it's never been done. Look, you've, you've, you've overcome the mathematical odds for sure, right, and. And you, there were plenty of people that you know, I'm sure, in your life, and there are people in my life told me I wasn't smart enough, wasn't good enough. You know, you can't do it because of X, y and Z. You have to have an ego to say, fuck that, I'm going for it anyway, right, and, and. And I don't think it's courage, I really think it's ego, I think it's like you have to care enough inside to push yourself to do that Again. You're shaking your head.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, Because no.
Speaker 1:You're shaking your head with a yes. I like that. Yes, no, no, I'm shaking.
Speaker 2:No, because to your point you have to get to a point where ego is going to get you there, right, because sometimes it's going to be all sweat balls and conviction that you got to get there to prove the doubt is wrong and they give you enough fuel to get there.
Speaker 2:But, to your point, to do things meaningful, and I'm with you. But to do things meaningful after a while it's sometimes even for me, coach, it's hard to delineate. You know where that ego, you know, kind of takes a side and I jump into, jump into well, how do I know that I'm right? And then? And then, what are the ways to build the mechanisms to try to validate this next step? And that's what I, that's what I, you know, mean is that you climb, that, you climb, that you climb that mountain and in order to get to the game, to get to the party, you have to get there because you have the ego big enough that that, basically, they gave you enough to get there, because you have an ego big enough, that that, basically, they gave you enough willpower to get there, yeah, yeah, and that you believe you belong there that's what exactly yeah
Speaker 2:and and and and belief is important because I would tell you, you know, for me you wipe everything else away. I have deep belief in myself. Deep belief in myself. It's, it's so critically, it's like in my veins, coach, like I can't fail, even though failure is always one day away. It's always critically, it's like in my veins, coach, like I can't fail, even though failure is always one day away. It's always there, you know, it's always there. And so the question is like, even people like you in my life, okay, how do I find the kind of alliances, the kind of other people around me to make sure this is not a barrier for tomorrow?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. You do say, and I agree with you, failure is always right there, especially as entrepreneurs. It's like every day you're unemployed. But I've always viewed failure as uncomfortable, knowing it's there. But as a motivator, Like knowing it's there chasing me, that it's always that possibility. It's like, uh-oh, don't slow down now. You know, that's the kind of that, that's the work mindset that I've always had about it.
Speaker 1:People, I just don't sleep well as a result. You know, it's like cause, I'm always thinking about that, but it's like running away from the fear of failure. That's that, to me, is a huge motivator. I'm so afraid to fail, I'm so afraid to and I don't quite know why. But you know what I don't want to know, why, Like I don't want to unwrap that I like it because it's fuel Like that to me, like that keeps me moving in a direction many, many, many times, and and and. When I do fail, and it's obvious and I know I failed, you know, after I'm done feeling sorry for myself, then it's time to learn, Then then you learn, then you're like all, let me.
Speaker 2:Let me get over myself and stop feeling bad. And what can I learn from that? So I can always make new mistakes, always make great expression. This is uh ray dalio. He wrote a book called principles. Yep, uh about this concept, and so so I. So I am with you. 100. Uh, you have to be able to embrace that failure because it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a, it's a real thing and it's also used as's a. It's a real thing and it's also used as a learning mechanism to understand the why right. The feedback loop takes place. You can use that to engage, kind of going forward and so, and then, at the same time, you're right, Sometimes it's good to not be able to sleep because that means that your that, that your army and your mind is is giving you that dopamine to say, hey, we got things to do, you know, and so no. So I am with you. Ego matters for sure. It's very, very important in the ingredients to success number one, but number two knowing when to take a sigh okay and have self-awareness is very difficult to switch. That way, you know, yeah, and then at the same time, to how you handle and embrace your failures, while also using it as a motivator at the same time.
Speaker 2:It's also why ray dalio says that he would give us the motivation to learn to struggle well because life is in fact a struggle uh there's always that pulling you on both sides and you have to find the stronger man inside of you to take you to the next level and who calls you out.
Speaker 1:Who calls you out? Who's like, who keeps you in line, who keeps you in check when you're, when you're, you know, when your ego is getting a little too much, or like who's? Who's the person that says to you hey, you know, you know, I'm coming from a place of love. Who does that for you?
Speaker 2:easy call coach who is it? Adelaide goucher, that's my wife you know it's I'm.
Speaker 1:I gotta tell you something I knew I loved you for a reason because we, we feel I was. If you ask me that question, I'm gonna say it's my wife, amy, that's right. She's the one and, by the way, I don't always like it. Like most of I don't like it. It pisses me off, but she's you know, I know she's right and that's probably why it pisses me off. But I, you know, you know, I just know she comes from a absolute place of doing and thinking about what's what's best for, and she knows me Right. And sometimes that's why it hurts so much, maybe because because I love and adore her and having her give me that feedback is painful. But I also know it's from the right place, that's right. What a great answer, nick. That's thank you for. You made it. You made an easy layup for me on that one.
Speaker 2:No, you gave it back to me too. That's a good feedback loop, coach. I appreciate you, man.
Speaker 1:Where are you five years from now? What are you doing five years from now, in five?
Speaker 2:years from now. In five years, our company because we just launched six months ago I saw that yeah, and so in five years we'll be on our way to have built one of the most trusted mortgage companies in the country. Great, that's where we'll be. We are going to take the playbook from Charles Merrill.
Speaker 2:When there was a trust loss after the Great Depression, he brought trust back into the financial sector. Even Carl Icahn. In the 1960s, he became an options trader and he wanted to become the most trusted stockbroker in the country. I think, when there's a trust recession that we're in now, when people lost trust in information media government, when people lost trust in information right Media government, if you could find authentic people who have your best interests at heart and tries to build something of meaning, but also with honor and dignity as well, I think that people respond to that very well in times where there's gaps of trust, and I think it's a great way to reduce your cost to acquire new customers as well, because you build a great referral system as well and treat people the right way. So that's what we'll be in five years.
Speaker 1:You know it's a beautiful business when you think about selling mortgages, home ownership to people, because you're really selling something that truly is in their best interest. They might pay a little bit too much, a little bit less. Those are all you know. At the end of the day, fast forward a hundred years, 50 years from now that you know you're helping them build wealth, so it's best, that's in their best interest. That's very different than selling a car to somebody. You're not. You're not selling a depreciating asset to someone. You're not selling something nice to have. You're selling them something that's a need to have. I'm sure you know the statistics, but for most people it's probably their largest single asset and investment. At the end of the day, it probably feels pretty good to put someone in a home knowing that you just gave them the opportunity to change the wealth trajectory of their family and their generations in the futures.
Speaker 2:Coach, listen, for us, the home is the byproduct. What I'm selling is freedom, autonomy. I'm selling prosperity, hope. I'm selling America. The idea is that the person and their property have a right to exist. That's what we're doing with our company. And so we know, every time we create a new homeowner, we know that the chances that that child is going to become a homeowner in the future goes up 3x. We know that. We know that that person's health improves, according to Habitat for Humanity, by 74%. We know that kid has stability in their home. So they do better in school. When I was growing up, coach, my brother and I, from kindergarten to 12th grade, we moved 13 times Right, okay. And so we didn't do well in school because we were trying to always fit into our new surroundings. Of course we didn't have that peace. And so for us we well in school because we were trying to always fit into our new surroundings. Of course we didn't have that piece. And so for us, we're selling a larger vision here. The mortgage is just a byproduct.
Speaker 1:Nick, I'm going to end it right there. Man, I could not have asked for a better way to spend the past 51 minutes. You are, you're fantastic. When I you know, talking to someone like you makes me wish that I make these, that I do these video release instead of audio, because your, your energy and your animation and you just it's something that I feel see you and be around you all the time. But you are one of those people and I'm really saying this from my heart that I met in my life, that made a huge impact on me and it was like out of left field. Never thought we couldn't have less in common. You know, jewish guy from Miami Florida. You know, grew up in an upper middle class family. You know we couldn't have less in common, common, and yet we have so much in common and that's what I really really love about you and someday, uh, I look forward to meeting you. I think you said you're coming out to the East coast. I will, that's right. That's right, yep.
Speaker 1:A couple months and um, and I look forward to giving you a hug.
Speaker 2:Hey, coach, you are. You are an incredible man. Thank you, great father, and the way you've been able to shape my life, the time we spent together pouring, investing into me, has taught me who I am today, and so I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it Well, you're gracious, I appreciate it. Thank you, Nick. I will speak to you later. Yes, sir, all right, bye. See you, brother.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye.