Slabnomics
Finance-Bro turned Card Bird explores the intersection of collecting, investment, and market theory for sports cards.
Think Financial Analyst meets Sports Card Collector.
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Slabnomics
Why This World Cup is Different Ft. SACC Cards
Welcome to Slabnomics, where we help sports card enthusiasts make better financial decisions about sports cards.
In this episode, host Matthew Worley sits down with Anthony from @Sacccards to talk about the soccer card market - Why this world cup is different from the last one held in America in 1994, what changes he sees as a coach and consultant for youth soccer, and how that meshes with his love of soccer card collecting.
They dive into:
- The pulse of the 2025 sports-card market
- Current misconceptions
- How this may be a black swan moment for the soccer card industry
- How far can USA go?
- A suprising prediction for the winner.
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Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of Slabnomics. Today we're going to have Anthony from Sack Cards on, and you're going to hear about soccer and what its actual place is within the history of sports here within the United States, why this World Cup might be different than the one that was in the 90s here in the United States, and why we can use this to round out an investment thesis. So that's what I'm going to take you through today. Hopefully you enjoy it. Now I know a lot of you might be looking for some of the information about my recent trip to Spain. I don't have all of that together for you yet. So I would love to be able to give that to you this week. You're going to have to be a little bit patient with me and just understand that I want to give you guys the best packaged material that I can. Not quite ready yet. I'll have that for you next week. So, with all that being said, here's Anthony. Enjoyed the interview. All right. Welcome everyone. Today we have on Slabnomics one of my dearest of friends, one of the people that is the face of the sports card hobby for soccer cards, Anthony with Sack Cards. Anthony, how are you doing this evening, brother?
SPEAKER_01:I'm doing so good, Matt. That was a very strong intro. I'm happy to be here with you. As everybody knows, Matt's amazing, has come onto the scene here and done amazing things for us and provided us with a great amount of data and insight into the hobby. And I am so happy I got to meet you this spring. So thank you for having me on.
SPEAKER_00:Same here, brother. There's a podcast that I just mentioned you in. So you guys are going to hear what I had to say about Anthony in that podcast. So I won't go too much into a love fest, but much love, brother. And uh yes, I'm very excited for all the things that we have going on over the next year. Thank you, buddy. To get started and to tell the people a little bit about the story of how we met, I actually purchased one of my biggest cards from you first. And one of the things that helped me get into the soccer hobby just was how you handled that transaction. I could tell that you were someone who is very skilled at making connections, and that's something everyone says about you. So how long have you been in the hobby? And why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey?
SPEAKER_01:That's really nice to hear. Thank you. Yeah, so we're we're actually coming up on six years. On October 1st, would be six years from the first soccer card that we purchased. We purchased a Julie Johnston Ertz base rookie from the 2015 Panini set. It was like a$3 card that I probably paid$4 shipping for. And when I got it, I was like, yes. At the time, it would have gone for a dollar. But I was so happy because you know I received the card of like one of my favorite players to watch play and a massive part of the US women's national team. So it's we're yeah, it's six years from that first purchase. I heard I watched a Gary V video on YouTube and it really caught my attention in regards to um, you know, collecting number one. Number two, you know, his discussions were had a lot of tone in regards to this is a good investment. Um he didn't necessarily say those words, but it kind of opened up my eyes and got me researching. I think I watched that video for the first time in the summer, and then I started researching for a good month, month and a half, just seeing kind of what was going on. And then like I said, October 1st, I made the first purchase. I started just unboxing stuff. So it was like the moment when you could, you know, get a 2017-18 Chrome box for like 60 bucks. I was like, yeah, give me three of those. I'm gonna go like 1617 selects at$60 a box. You know what? Give me a couple Spectra boxes. You know, it should be over a case of that Don Russ, that 1819 Don Russ stuff, which was like a massive box, and there was just so many fucking cards. So I just started like opening stuff, like 2014 World Cup Prison boxes, I think were in the 250 to 300 bucks random. So, yeah, send over a couple of those, which opens up another story later. And I was just unboxing stuff, and it was like, oh, this is colorful, you know, and it's like, oh, it's got a number on it. And I'm like, okay, like I'm learning, like I have no idea. I'm blind. But I was just unboxing and opening, and then in December, January, gold standard and obsidian released. So I bought into as many breaks as possible and got the US women's national team slot because my initial strategy was like, if I'm investing, I'm gonna go after US women's national team players because I felt like there wasn't necessarily a lot of people that was gonna be doing that. And I didn't understand like how much a messy 71 Biz PSA 10 rookie card would go for. So I was like very specific with the money. I sold one of my condos in that summer, and I literally rolled over all the net from that. It was like 13,000, like small potatoes, but I put it all on the cards, and it was a lot of like unbox stuff, sell it on eBay, the shiny Mbappe. Wow, that really sells good, you know. Like that was a good sale. Like it was like, oh, I got in 50 bucks. Let's go buy some more, you know, let's unbox some other stuff. And that was kind of the tone. And then I met some more important people. Michael and I met, I think, later that spring, and we started talking and then we started investing together. I I got in business first. We still do this as a business. Although I'm so committed to the this space and being involved long term. Um, and it feels good because, you know, I think when I first got involved, it was like with 2026 in mind. But I think my original intention was to like, you know, kind of get out, you know, like it was like, oh, I'm gonna do this for this period of time, and then maybe I take that money and roll it over. You know, I have big goals and dreams, but now I I really want to be a part of this space for life. And it is a business, but um, you know, I also collect things now too. And um, I love my group of friends within the soccer card space. I just want to grow here. So that's kind of where we're at and kind of how we started and evolved.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, most stories that I hear don't start with pre-COVID. They usually start with COVID. I was bored. So it's nice to hear the reflections of someone that was in it before COVID and saw another, another part of the market cycle, let's say, because think about it, 90% of the people getting into the hobby today have only been part of one market cycle. The COVID boom, the subsequent bear market, and now the boom that we have going on. And so they all look back and they're all saying, I've been through this before. I'm an old head, I've seen it all. You gotta be worried. You got bear markets coming, winter is coming, winter is coming. But guys, this is one small slice of one market. You know, you look at the stock market, I brought this up earlier on another podcast, but people aren't afraid of bull markets in the stock market. They're like, this is normal shit. Assets go up, assets go down, you buy on a determined pace things that you love, companies that you respect that are doing well. Same thing with cards, man. But rant over on that. You've you've been in the hobby for a long time. But more than that, I think one of the things that is the greatest about you, Anthony, is that you also are kind of grassroots organically involved in soccer. So tell the listeners a little bit about your involvement with soccer as a sport, not just the cards.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, thank you. Uh you know, I think being involved in this sport, you know, since I was six years old and continuous through my whole life. I think it I think that's why I want to be a part of Cards for Life too, because I just love the game so much. I love understanding the game to a level where, you know, I could watch a youth game or I could watch a college game, a high school game, or even a professional game and feel like I'm pretty on par with like what's going on and and why it's happening and understanding positionally about players and the whole thing, nuts and bolts. So I'm grateful that I've always been a part of this game because I really think it contributes to decisions that we make in the card space. And I just think it's really powerful. But, you know, my company, SACC, stands for student athlete coaching and consulting. We teach players how to get recruited. So we work with high school age student athletes and we help them navigate college recruiting process. From that has spawned training programs, community programs, free play programs, teams. We've kind of participated in a whole bunch of it. And I always thought that I would be able to kind of leverage cards to enhance that experience. So I have really big dreams of, you know, kind of like maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here, but like creating a like a soccer school here. You know, I've been a school teacher for 24 years. I I love my job. It took a while to get to this place, but I really enjoy being a teacher in the trenches and working with young people. So there's that. And, you know, from the company has spawned a training business. So I'm regularly out, even now, three times a week, working with small groups and private sessions and things like that. But, you know, at six, I was on a soccer field in the in the beehive with my friends and trying to kick a ball in a net, and it just kind of grew and played in high school, played in college. I think a big part of why I love soccer so much is because I had the opportunity to live overseas for three years. And when I experienced the beautiful game in Italy, you know, it really, it really, I think it it it it rebirthed me. It re-ignited my passion and love for the game. And I was able to see the game through the eyes of somebody who was was not from the USA. In fact, from various places all over the world, just happened to be living in Rome at the time. So I was able to kind of acquire bits of information about the beautiful game from these different people from Italy, from Ireland, from the UK, from Colombia. Like there's people from everywhere, Egypt, and it's magical. And I don't know, just to reiterate, I'm I'm grateful for my experience with soccer. I'm very connected to the youth game here in the country. Uh, I learn every day and I apply it with soccer.
SPEAKER_00:That's an incredible boiling cauldron of factors that have fed into your love of soccer. When you were recounting that story, it really made me think of how we're in the States because I'm trying to figure out how things are going to change. I I think they're going to change, but I don't know. And I try and be a what do you say, a strong opinions, weekly held guy, right? This is my opinion. This is what I got from the information I have. But if you can change my mind, I'm open to it. Yeah. So when I look at why people don't get excited about soccer cards in America, I think you've keyed in on some of the factors that are most important. You were around people that are rabid for the game and their fandom, right? You lived in that, you immersed in that. And I think most Americans haven't done that. And so they don't have a tapping into the fervor and the energy and the excitement and the all the things that go into the game. You know, you you ask a typical American, a football fan, about soccer and they're like, pfft, soccer. And then I'll tell them stuff like, you know, there's three billion soccer fans in the world, right? You know that there's a trillion dollars that's supposed to come into local economies through the World Cup being held in North America, right? Turning it back over to you. What do you think it's going to take to get people more excited about soccer here in the States? What's it gonna take?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's uh that's a loaded question for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Really good question. Not even, not even just talking about cards. I'm talking about just kind of the game itself and everything that feeds into it.
SPEAKER_01:What's it gonna take to get it to go to the next level? Is is basically the game of soccer. That's your question. How do we get it to get bigger? You know, I think one of the things that's kind of holding us back right now, I'll just dive right in. You know, our our structure. The way I see it, I think US soccer should kind of, it's like top-down. I think the national team should be influencing our professional leagues, and then from our professional leagues should, you know, tier two, tier three, tier four. And I don't think that's the way it works in our country. I think, you know, like the MLS uh has way too much say in power and what's going on. Uh the relationship with US soccer and MLS, I think is like, you know, it reeks of like nepotism and you know, things that um, you know, the good old boys crew type thing, um, you know, and it's it still exists today. And and then and now recently we've just seen like, you know, MLS has been on top for a long time. Um and then now USL's coming in, and now there's like two, you know, top-tier professional leagues, and and they have their own system, and MLS might have a system, and and and and we're going through this transition period. So there's just it has changed so much and has changed so much recently in years. I think it's hard for our national team and our domestic lead to to gain any traction because there's there's all this thing, there's all these things happening and you know, changing of national team coaches, but even in that, like we had it. We had Jurgen Klinsman in here, right? We had the guy that was gonna help propel us to new heights. And then, you know, somebody, US soccer, somebody over there got cold feet, felt like they didn't control it or something. You know, are we bringing him in so that we could learn? Or so I'd, you know, from decision making with like personnel of coaches to, you know, an unstable system, you know, where the national team don't have the power that they should have in influencing what happens in our domestic league. And then I would say a lack of culture, you know, like my experience in Italy is, you know, there's people playing in the piazzas. You've been to Rome, like, you know, you stroll around the streets, and there's a couple people with a football on the ground and they're kicking it. And if you hit this spot on the wall, that's a goal. And you got somebody over there, and you they if they have the ball, they can play. They're playing in the piazzas, they're playing in the beaches. I've been to fortunate enough to be to Spain and the plazas, same thing. People are eating jamon, drinking beer, and there's a football out, and they're and they're passing it around, they're doing their thing. You know, you go to many countries in Europe, South America, Asia, like people are playing football everywhere, right? America, not so much. So I think we've we should be experiencing more growth, but I think what's holding us back is there's really just a lack of structure top down, that it isn't good. We need to figure out, you know, if it is gonna be USL, how quickly can we implement promotion relegation, get MLS to and like start something because we really haven't even started. It's like MLS has existed, but we haven't even gotten going yet. We don't know our identity, and we're, you know, nine months out from kickoff of the World Cup that we're hosting. So I'm super picky. I just I hope that we can take a World Cup like this and then start to do it the right way. Time is in front of us and some things have to happen. But I I also think like if we had success and our national team was able to put on a show, I think that could be something that could help. I think more people and the right people would be interested. But I'm still going here. Like, we haven't even started talking about play-to-play yet. Talk about it. I'm out of water, so I might as well just keep going, right? So, like, to get to get a good experience in this country, you've got a lot of cases and a lot of different towns, you've got to pay a lot of money to get that good experience. So, is our country producing the best players or are we producing? We're not producing, by the way. Are we just bringing forth the best players that can cut a check? I would, I would, I think so. Let's get into like areas where people are unable to afford to play for you know an RCNL team or an ECNL team or you know, this, you know, MLS next team, or you like how are the some of these MLS next teams are charging. They're like, Yep, you gotta pay. Like, what? You go to another country, and I've escorted kids to these places, not even Roma Lazio. You go to like, you know, one of the uh football club or Tour di Quinto or one of these under clubs in Rome, and you show up with the player and their paperwork and you say, Hey, you know, can I have a trial? You know, and then and then that that player can play there for free for like two weeks. And oh yeah, we want to see you a little bit longer. And then they and then they they they extend your trial and then you play a little longer, and they're like, hey, you know what? We've really seen some growth here. We want to bring you on. It's gonna be a 200 euro fee. And then they hand you a$500 kit and you don't have to pay another thing. 200 euro, and you got the month experience free to play with high-level players, not quite good enough for Roma Lazio, but you get to play with these very good players that want to play for Roma and Lazio and have a direct feed to their system, like, and that costs you 200 euro. These ECNL teams, I mean, look at I hope people comment on this. Like, it's like base level 5,000, I think. And you know, like just to and we haven't even talked about travel, hotels, all the other things.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah. Share your stories, guys, if uh if you have any horror stories about having to pay a bunch out the nose, hit us up on Instagram and you'll see an announcement for this. Yes, well, I'm just gonna breath. That's it's just it sounds to me, bro, like a lot of this is growing pains, you know. You were mentioning before about how the system itself, the infrastructure isn't really built, the coaching, we have problems with power struggles that get in the way of things ultimately being successful at the national level. We have problems with the actual structure of how youth soccer is organized, nepotism, pay-to-play. Whereas in comparison in Europe, it's an honor to be able to play for these teams, and they're trying to recruit the best talent possible because the end game is different. And I think where that comes to play is very, very simple. Like, what's the difference between soccer overseas and soccer in the United States? Money. Yeah, it's money. Yeah. When we get the system built more, and when America wants and can play at that level, I think we'll decide to put more money into it, right? For now, we're just kind of bullying people in basketball and and American football, but and just kind of sloughing off the whole soccer thing. I think we can't ignore it after this World Cup. Do you think anything changes when when we have this here? Or do you think it will just go back to how it's always been? Like soccer is that's for Europeans and South Americans.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I see a lot of her as a U13, you 14, you 15, and it goes up, it gets more serious as the players get older. I see very much like we're gonna go to this tournament and we're gonna win this trophy, and then more people are gonna want to give us money because we're winning that trophy and we won the national championship and we're doing this and this and this and this. And that's the business model. And I think the business model in Europe is very much we're gonna develop this player, we're gonna develop this person. And when it's ready for them to become professional and or if they move, they're either gonna be in our team and we're gonna gain the value that way, or we can sell this player and then get a cut of that's how they're earning their money. It's very different when we're talking about player in person development compared to here, we're gonna teach you this system. You're not gonna be that good because we're not gonna focus on you, the person, the player. We're gonna focus on teaching you your skills, fair enough, to play within our system and to help us get the trophy, which is get more people give us money. So there's that. I think, and I think when the more and more people realize that and some of the other things that I mentioned early, and then with the World Cup and energy, hopefully a team that can, you know, get out of the group and you know, maybe advance in a round. Like when you start combining all those factors, I think it it it could be like a violent. Very good thing because you know USL is rolling out. And what if they can get MLS to merge? And then we can create promotion relegation and have a healthy relationship between US soccer and the MLS and the NWSL. And then create that top-down structure that's appropriate that we see in Europe, in South America, in Asia, in uh, you know, specifically, like I think about like Sweden, it's like one, two, three, four, five. People have to enter in flight in the bottom flight. And you have to work your way up. And it hasn't been that. It's been like, oh, these people can cut a check. Yeah, you up, you have the right population. Okay, you're gonna create this type of stadium. Okay, yeah, you can be an MLS team. Come on in. Wrong message to send. So I kind of I just kind of want MLS to go away. And if it is USL 1-2, like you know, NWSL took their shots. I mean, we had coaches that were like, you know, like having relationships with women and being abusive and like all this stuff, like Sally's report, what was that, like five years ago?
SPEAKER_00:Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01:Like, what? So it has to get better, but I think I think we're in a position right now, and with the shift of structure and, you know, I'm gonna say an awakening after the last World Cup with the whole Reina thing and whatever went on with that, and and then Vladko's experience on the women's side. Like, there's some wild stuff that happened in U.S. soccer, but I am optimistic that we can figure this out. I think there's enough people. I'm thinking about also like soccer schools in America. I think that's the way, right way to go. Like YSC Academy out of Philadelphia. You know, they're they're they're getting kids in maybe like a four-hour school day mixed in with like training and education and a proper soccer school, residential, diet, food, teaching the kids the right way. I think stuff like that. We need more of that.
SPEAKER_00:We need structure. We need structure and infrastructure, and we need to be able to play at an international level. Last time we had the World Cup was 1994. So everyone keeps going to say, like, oh, well, we had the World Cup here in the United States. Not much happened after that. Sure as shit. A lot of stuff happened after that. We got a full team, we got 30 different stadiums built. There were no soccer stadiums back then. We got a so let's talk a little bit about why this may or may not be different. So I'll pose that question to you, Anthony, to lead us off. Is this World Cup in 2026 going to be markedly different, in your opinion, from what we experienced in 1994? Where are your thoughts around it? Let's start there. Just the soccer game itself. I would say the the impact that it's going to have in the country.
SPEAKER_01:You know, when I think about impact, I I like to think about 94, but I also like to think about 99 because I think they I think they had two different impacts on our country. 94 was the men's world cup that we hosted, and 99 was the women's world cup that we hosted. And I th and I know that they impacted our country in a positive way, but I almost think it was a little bit different. So I'd like to kind of include both of those into this. 94, and like I'm thinking about like even before like Pele playing and like all that stuff, it kind of reminds me of like Messi in America playing now. Like I it's almost like the second wave of that, you know? Um, and I think maybe because of the lack of structure that our national team has had and having like a firm grip on like our domestic league and everything else, none of that stuff was really in place. It took a while after year 94, and I have to look up my history. But from the MLS was 1996, you said? And 90. So what is that two years it took to launch that? And then now another 20. So that's like that's like an immediate impact, right? And then like the numbers of youth soccer growing. I just caught myself, numbers of youth soccer like growing up to age 14, flooding in, you know, and then and then people came from overseas and started creating business uh with youth soccer. And that's how all this happened, how pay to play happened. So it was like, boom, 94 World Cup, MLS, here we go. And then like youth soccer growing. Now we need coaches. Oh, let's get this guy from the UK, let's get this guy from Ireland, come over here, we're gonna create business around soccer, and then off goes youth soccer. Again, I think I think all that was created with like business in mind, and it was very focused on making sure that we have a good business so that the soccer league continues and is healthy. And that's hurt that's hurt our national team. I think the reason why the women have been so good is because we were first and we had amazing athletes, amazing people with them like the best coaches that could present for those people at the time.
SPEAKER_00:Well, tell me tell me about the impacts then of the the women's world cup in 1999 and why you think that struck a chord maybe with the national heartbeat more than the men's. It could be and it's that's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_01:It it struck, it struck our soul. It it captivated Americans. It made people feel like an American, you know, like that Chastin penalty and then the you know the and then the celebration. It's like people felt that. People felt Mia Ham's hair commercials and her on a Wheaties box. It was mainstreamed, it was cultured, and those women kicked ass. And it was like America, right?
SPEAKER_00:It was Yeah, but the men's team, we always just feel like we're getting beaten down and Americans don't like that. Yeah. We're bullies, man.
SPEAKER_01:We like being on top. We do, we do. And to be fair, that's what the the U.S. women's national team has continued to provide over their reign from women's World Cup wins to Olympic golds. I mean, we don't go we don't get them all, but we've had a couple dynasties in there of teams and people.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think like So how? How is that, Anthony? Like, why so vastly different men's and women's? I mean, it's not like we're treating the women's program differently, are we?
SPEAKER_01:No, I I I I do think that our our country in general, without having a very late start, women's US women's national team started training in 1985. You know, I think I think it was just a couple, you know, three, four years ago. Um, you know, like we had countries that didn't uh allow women to play. So I think like, you know, I think we got the start. I think we have, you know, it's an incredible generation of, I'm just gonna throw it out there, like these are Gen X people, like like strong, work hard for what you want, amazing athletes, and women that just wanted to play and be together. And it was very much the game. And I think that's what came off. I think it was like these are like people that were given nothing and just loved playing the game and were really good at it and had tremendous leadership under an Anson, Anson Doran's, Tony DiChico, like very strong leaders with histories of winning. And then you put all that together and the American desire, the spirit like connects and comes out, and that's what captivated us as Americans. The West Women's National team has captivated Americans, um, particularly this one right here, um, and other people like me. I think you feel it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We were left behind, I think, in men's soccer. That's what I'm kind of drawing out from what you said. A lot of the other nations had a head start. It's like if other nations were to try and compete with us in baseball, you know, that's our sport. It's like we've been doing it for so long. Like, sure, you guys can have amazing athletes and you can train and you can have amazing facilities, but we have so many lessons that we've kind of learned. It's almost in the genetics. I kind of feel that for men's soccer. Whereas in women's soccer, you've shared with me before that in other nations, they didn't have women's soccer programs for a very long time. They didn't let them play, they didn't put money into it, they didn't care about it. So we all kind of start at the same time, and American women are are awesome. But I think it was just like, here's a game that we can win. Yeah. You know, like we're all playing from the same start, whereas these guys are 20 yards ahead already in their soccer programs and how they've learned to play the game and the coaching lessons that they've passed down. So is it even going to be possible for men's soccer for the US national team to bridge that gap of all of those centuries that they have? Or is it just, have we just given up as a nation in men's soccer?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, it's a really good question. Well, I'm certainly hopeful. You know, we brought up the women's team being successful. They were a team, they they had a system, they had a culture, they had people looking out for them. I do think that we can get ourselves on the map. I think what's going to be important here as we evolve and things are currently shifting, as we mentioned earlier, but I think we need to understand what our identity is, you know, what our identity as a country, what our identity is as a team. You know, I think actually I know that's why our women's team has been so successful because what was ingrained in their DNA, starting in 1985, winning the first Women's World Cup in 1991 and continuing from there is, you know, the culture and the spirit of the players. You know, there was a certain mentality about it. There was a certain style of play. You know, I talked about bringing in Clinsman, and then it was like a read, and then and then it's like, no, we're gonna play pretty soccer and we're gonna, you know, possession based and possession with a purpose. And it's like we're hearing all these things, Spain, Germany, you know, and like here it is again, 2025, we're nine months out. What's our identity? I think I know what it should be, but I don't know if there's an agreement of who we are. So I think going forward, if we can establish an identity and create a system for our players to grow and develop, I think it's possible. We need a rebirth and then start to catch up. I think a lot of this time from 1994 until now, we haven't really gained any ground. We've created, you know, like Christian Polisik, you know, local kid soccer family. You know, he's a creative player. Like he's more of what we're seeing out there in other aspects of the world. But, you know, is that gonna be enough? Is he enough? And can we build enough around him, the other pieces, to get things going? You know, he's been on fire lately, I heard. Polisic is um he's he's a nifty player. He's um, I think he brings something to the table that not a lot of our other players have brought.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna wrap up pretty quick too, because I do got a run. Okay. So fast forward with me to World Cup 2026. Right now, we're all thinking about football, then we're gonna think about basketball, then football again. Then we're going to get clear out of all that in February of 2026. And then from then on, I think we're gonna get hammered with marketing about soccer and Christian Belisic. And like you said, team identity. They're gonna be driving that home. They're gonna be creating narratives. That's what the media does.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So let's get your guess and your opinions. What do you think the narratives are going to be for the US men's national team for the World Cup 2026? Who is gonna be held up as what? This is just your time to probably be wrong about most things as humans always are, but be right about some things and be able to say you call it, and I'll clip it out for you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah, this will be fun. I'm excited. You know, the this this type of thing, I I it changes, you know. And um, you know, when I was preparing our our pod here, I really I didn't know I was gonna have to answer. No, I'm just kidding. I I think I think lead the fifth. Yeah. No, I think it's interesting because you're right. I'm gonna be wrong. But there's so much negativity around the US men's national team right now. It might even be one of those, like, close to like a rock bottom moment where it's like, you know, they're in the locker room, it's like we just, you know, whatever result, and I think we're beyond this point now. I think we can go forward now, but we'll see. It's almost like 2022 was like that, don't you think? It was it, yeah, it was weird. And then it was like, was it the game against an was it was it England draw? It it came out, it's just like, oh, we're gonna draw against England, right? Like, and that was just like, oh, we're here now. So I feel that coming on. It's just so low right now. And the soccer coach in me is like, oh, we're getting knocked out of group, you know, and being like, that's it. But like, we don't really know what everything's gonna look like yet. We don't even know, you know, like who we're you know, playing our group and all the negativity around the team right now, it's not actually gonna be that when the World Cup is here. So I think I think we get out of the group, and depending on how things play out and things click the way I think they could click, maybe we get past the next round.
SPEAKER_00:I'm excited, man. I'm excited to see. I hope that happens. I think you're right about expectations, dude.
SPEAKER_01:It's so bad right now. So the soccer coaching me is like, no, that's not gonna happen, but I I kind of think it's gonna happen somehow, some way.
SPEAKER_00:It's a black swan moment. All of this is black swan. Yeah. The fact that World Cup is gonna be here, and hey, I'm gonna tinfoil hat right now with you guys for a second, okay? Because I do love me some tinfoil hat stuff. The reason that America is hosting the World Cup is so that America is going to become pulled into soccer. Okay. There's a reason that it's here, and there's a reason also that referees still exist. Okay. I don't think the money that is going to be flowing through this is going to allow the American team to not get through group stage. Okay. It's interesting. I'm not I'm not trying to say things are cooked. Okay. Things are right. But I truly believe that narratives get built for a reason. And I also truly believe that sports are labeled as entertainment businesses because that's not belief. That's an actuality. Look up the NFL, it is an entertainment business, okay? Kind of like wrestling. So y'all aren't gonna like this, but follow the money, and the money would probably have America going a lot farther than we might be expecting right now because that's good for America, it's good for soccer, and it's good for the pockets of those at the head of those respective things.
SPEAKER_01:Makes you think. It's not just make you think, it's like every time I'm around you, I'm always learning new shit. And then you've taken this podcast and put it into a platform where I'm learning again with you, and it's just so cool. I I I kind of I see what you're saying, man. And I am I I think sports are are fixed. You know, like I've done this my whole life, and as a 45-year-old, I have come to terms with like, you know, some of this is just seeming a little bit, but I'm with you. I'm with you, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:Little storybooks sometimes, you know, these narratives that you start seeing.
SPEAKER_01:How far do you think US is gonna go?
SPEAKER_00:So I don't think they're gonna win at all. I don't think that's feasible enough. You can only stretch the story so far, but and I don't think they're they're not gonna make the final, probably not gonna make the quarterfinal. Semifinal, right? Is that yeah, that's when there's four teams left. Yeah. Okay. I could see them sneaking into the semifinal. That would be nuts, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like bonkers.
SPEAKER_00:America's ranked what, 16th, maybe?
SPEAKER_01:Probably, somewhere between 10 and 20.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And there's like six to eight powerhouses, but that's so since it's fixed, who do you got?
SPEAKER_01:Is it is it are they gonna drive that narrative of like a messy Ronaldo semifinal, or is it gonna be like messy Ronaldo Mbappe? Imagine that. Like, or like Neymar Ronaldo, you know, like what it was is it that narrative, everybody's like, oh, Neymar can't play on turf now. Like, is Neymar gonna come out of nowhere? Um, there's so many like permutations of amazing things that could happen in this World Cup, and US is one of them. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I you kind of turned me on to Portugal because I really was not, I was counting Portugal out when I was looking at who do I think is gonna make it? Because I wanna I wanna know who the teams are gonna be so that I can make my investments accordingly, because it's very important who's going to be knocked out early and who's gonna make it. When you were talking about Portugal making it, it made a lot of sense. You know, there's a lot of money that would follow Ronaldo winning one. Because if I'm like, okay, what's the thing that would cause the most amount of money to shift? Ronaldo at the big level, you know, that's Ronaldo winning a World Cup. Yeah, I think so too. That would be huge, man. Like all of a sudden the messy Ronaldo debate's back on. That's the only thing that'll get it back on.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. Every single person my age and younger and older who've been watching these guys play and been arguing about this shit, whether it's in a car ride or on a podcast or in a trade night, you know, like we've seen the messy Ronaldo debate for so many years, and it was kind of like uh checkmate, I think, when Messi won the World Cup and then Cope. And it's like, but to reinstate that idea, what is it? That's like the bedtime story. And you know what?
SPEAKER_00:You said it well, it makes us feel. You know what sports are supposed to do? Make us feel things as men, because we're pretty shitty at feeling things most of the time. Generally speaking, men crush things down and we kind of, you know, stand on top of that for a while. Uh but sports help us feel, you know, sports bring a tear to your eye sometimes, and sometimes they make you feel proud and you you put your identity into that sports team because it's a way for you to shield yourself and feel things in a way that's not as sensitive to yourself, to your man identity. You almost outsource your identity to another thing so you can feel that thing and not have it touch you. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and some of it, you know, I just speaking on my some of it, I think like if I'm unpacking things, not that it's not a therapy session per se, but it was like identity, like it was like validation. It was like I'm gonna work hard for this and and prove myself and prove to others that I am worthy. You know, there's a lot of that around it too. Uh, at least it was for me for a long time. Obviously, I'm in a uh, you know, I feel like I'm in a better headspace in that regard now, but that's everything that you just said.
SPEAKER_00:And, you know, cards do that as well. Cards are just like the objects that we kind of throw our identity to similarly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So one more question about cards. I'm gonna give you like a really good one here. So prepare yourself. All right. I'm gonna tie all this in with this one question because we don't have time to go into anything else. We talked about identity. We talked about problems that we have in the United States in terms of our soccer team and our national identity and our people identifying with that team. Shifting into cards, soccer cards are this sleeping giant. Many have championed that phrase, but that sleeping giant hasn't woken up. For I mean, Prism was 2014, so that was the first big release, followed by 2015 Select. Uh, we had Don Ross also in 2015, we had Topps Chrome in 2017, we had Sapphire in 2019. So things are progressing, and now we got all the sets, we got all the big ones running. Why is it now, Anthony, that the identity of the American consumer is going to come online and start buying soccer cards, whereas we didn't before.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, it's so much playing into this. I just had like five, six things coming through my head. Hopefully I can get one of them out. You know, I I think I think there's a big group of people like myself who entered into the space around 2019, 2020 who have been a part of this wave. Some stayed. I think many exited. And I think some of those people are re entering. So so there's that. I I'm always a big believer, and I say this on any time on a live chat or in a podcast. I really believe in the organic growth of soccer cards globally, not just from an America standpoint of view, but also, you know, in all the amazing countries in the world that love this game as their number one sport. I think some of those people are starting to collect cards at a higher frequency. And we haven't even started America hosting a World Cup yet. We haven't, you know, I think tickets just went on sale pretty recently. But there hasn't been like all the advertisements and, you know, US men's national team getting back on track, so to speak, you know, and all the hype. And I don't know, like I think this is a moment. I think we always knew that like famous people could enter this space and start buying cars. And we're starting to see that now. We're starting to see professional athletes own cards. And uh, you know, Kevin O'Leary getting involved and and not just like with one sale, with multiple sales and then talking about it, getting in front of the news.
SPEAKER_00:Like there's those launching a business based off of it. Yeah, launching a business.
SPEAKER_01:But and that's not going to fail, right? It's it's it's he's not just gonna splash that way and it flop. I he's already a collector, he's gonna continue, he's not going anywhere, he's not gonna have these cards and just exit out of them in three months. He's like talking about it in a way that we always felt like it was gonna happen. I'm speaking on like early people, and I'm not I don't consider myself too early, but I'm early. I don't know. Like, I think what he's talking about is what all of us have felt and see and are now in. I don't know if that I think there's a lot of different things that play into it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, Kevin O'Leary, that's not just like, hey, I'm just dipping my toes in the water. That is, I am building a business that's going to be going for a very long time, someone very well connected who knows where things are moving, more of at a macroeconomic level. And I'm getting into this business. Yeah. That's what we're seeing, Anthony, is we're seeing billionaires getting into these businesses. This is a market maturation signal. And the reason why they're so confident in it is because they already knew what we're seeing now, which is I just opened up my app on Instagram the other day and I saw NFL partnered with the MLS co-putting out content. It was Ballandor and MVPs, and it was just like a list of both of those kind of side by side comparing against each other. Like they're cross-pollinating, guys. And all these guys with money knew this stuff was about to happen a year ago. Tom Brady knew this was gonna happen and open card vault. Like, guys, yeah. People people make like investing decisions solely off of what Warren Buffett does. They're like Warren Buffett bought this three months ago when I get this SEC quarterly report, and I can see it. I'm just gonna do what he did. Just go do what these billionaires are doing, guys. They have all the information and they're buying cards, they're buying soccer cards. Okay. The World Cup is about to come here and it's gonna blow the doors off of everything. Human beings, we remember spikes of emotion. We remember that time we felt something crazy, and that's what's gonna happen at the World Cup. Like we are going to feel things, we're going to get tingly. All right, everyone. So I hope you enjoyed that interview with Anthony. He's such good energy, such a good person to have here on Slapnomics to talk about what goes behind a sport, behind these cards is going to be a sport and it's going to be a culture that's going to be instilled and imbued within that. That's why it's so critically important to be able to understand who are the people that are involved within this sport, who are the biggest fans, what do they care about, and what are we all doing together within this collecting activity that we all love. So hope you all had a great time on this episode. I know I had a lot of fun talking to Anthony. You can find him at Sack Cards on Instagram, and you can find me if you're listening to this on YouTube, on Spotify, or Apple if you prefer. And of course, if you're on those other platforms, check out YouTube sometime. All that being said, keep building, and I will talk to you guys later.
