Time

Over the last few episodes, I walked through my first full year of selling sports cards...my wins, my mistakes, and what I learned in buying, selling, and grading. Today is different. This one is slower, more reflective, and honestly one of the most important frameworks I’ve shared:

 How time actually works in the sports card market.

In this episode I cover:

• Market cycles & engineered scarcity
  • Why we’re living in an era of engineered scarcity
  • How Kabooms became the “reserve currency of flippers”
  • Why bull markets push money into SSPs and inserts… until liquidity tightens
• Risk-on vs risk-off and the flight to safety
  • What happens when geopolitical risk and macro events flip the switch
  • How smart money quietly rotates out of hype and into safer stores of value
  • Why modern parallels get hit first when the music stops
• The three time taxes on every card you buy
  1. Narrative decay – media hype, attention, and the slow fade when storylines die
  2. Opportunity cost – what you can’t buy because your money is stuck
  3. Liquidity risk – getting trapped in illiquid players, sets, or parallels
• Velocity of money vs “being right”
  • Why I’ll take 20% in two weeks over “maybe 100% in six months”
  • When it makes sense to break your own rules and let winners compound
  • How to recognize when an investment thesis is dead and it’s time to take the loss
• Using your 1,440 minutes like capital
  • Why time is your second balance sheet—right next to your cash
  • How to audit your strengths/weaknesses and build a trading journal
  • The system I use to log every purchase and sale, and find patterns in my own behavior
• Buying back your time with consignment

If you’ve ever:

• Sat on a cold prospect hoping “it gets back to what I paid”
• Felt stuck with cards you don’t love, but don’t want to lose on
• Wondered how to balance time, capital, and attention in this hobby

…this episode is meant to be a reset button.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:13

Hello everyone and welcome to Slabnomics. Today's episode is going to be one that has taken me a very long time to record today. And that's because it is, to me, one of the most important episodes I have recorded. I have spent the last few episodes going over my previous year, my first year of sales. I've shared with you the mistakes that I've made over that year in the phases of selling, of buying, and of grading. And that's put me into a very reflective mood. And so what I wanted to do for this episode is I want to give you guys something that's more meditative, more philosophical, and something that hopefully will be foundation that you can build upon so that you can make those better financial decisions regarding sports cards going forward. And I take it very seriously because I believe that this episode is going to be one that will be incredibly beneficial for anyone, any level, whether starting out, whether you've been in the game for 10 years. So with that being said, welcome to Slabnomics episode 30. For this episode, I encourage you to come onto Instagram, start up some conversations, think during this podcast if there's anything that really strikes you as very important, something that you really gel with in your life. Feel welcome to bring that conversation to my Instagram at Slabnomics. So I want to start out today talking about first cycles. I want to go into what time really is in terms of it conceptually, but also in terms practically when we think about the sports card hobby. Then I want to speak a little bit about where that time can be used as a tool and also where it can harm us in our journey. And then I'll wrap up giving some practical advice as to how this can be applied looking forward. We live in a time of sports cards where not only is there manufactured scarcity, but there is engineered scarcity. I went over the history of sports cards in one of my earliest episodes. And I talked about how the printing grew and grew and grew, but also that the manufacturers learned from the junk wax era how to be smarter about how they printed so that they weren't just creating more and more of the same thing. They were creating parallels of the same thing. They accomplished the same goal, which is to be able to print more and make more money, but they did it in a way that was a little bit more palatable. This manufactured scarcity reminds me a lot of some of the market downturns that we've experienced within equities over the past 25 years. Notably, we had the dot-com bubble in about 2001. And then we had the housing crisis and great recession in 2008 to 2009. I'm not trying to be a sensationalist here, but in comparing to those markets, we had specifically bubbles that arose from asset classes being pumped beyond any kind of rationale. And we live in a time now in stocks and equities specifically, where a lot of things are out of traditional valuations. First thing that comes to mind is Tesla. I used to write stock articles on Seeking Alpha, Motley Fool, Forbes, and Investopedia. And one of the stock articles that I wrote about was Tesla and how overvalued it was. This was back in 2015, 2016. It had completely decoupled from traditional financial metrics. Things like PE ratios or EPS were totally thrown out the window, and discounted future cash flows were also totally set aside. Proponents of Tesla pointed to this being a paradigm shift. And in similar vein, we could say that right now, what the SportsCard hobby is going through is going through a paradigm shift. There are a lot of reasons why there are very strong tailwinds for the hobby right now. We have at the highest level people beginning to see it as an alternative asset class, which is something that I was very strongly a proponent for in the past year. We have new technology coming in and being applied so that people are able to showcase their collections. They're able to collect more strongly. They're able to find and purchase cards in different ways than they are traditionally able to. We have grading coming online in more countries. So we have all of these positive things happening, and we're seeing huge gains starting from the high end of the collector's market and filtering down into mid-end cards and a little bit into low. Now, I bring this up because in 2020 and 2021, we had something similar happening, but it wasn't the same. If you look back on price history on a lot of cards, you'll see cards that had many PSA 10 copies going for exorbitant amounts, base cards going for crazy amounts. And that's not what's happening now. We're getting more of a top-end shift down, which I think is actually very positive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the market is itself healthy. Now, that might sound crazy coming from me because I've been someone who's very positively looking towards the future. And I still am incredibly positive for what I see for the near future. But there are a lot of different events happening on the geopolitical stage that I believe are going to be risk-on events over the next coming months. What that means for me is that I start to think a little bit more about how I can hedge risk. And that's what brings us to this discussion of time. When we have markets going as they have in the past six to seven months in the throes of a bull market, those engineered scarcity assets continue to go up and up and up. A prime example of those is kabooms. Now, we've also reached the end of the cycle. We've also reached the end of the kaboom super cycle. This past dozen years or so, kaboom really solidified itself as the premier insert of this generation. The kabooms for me are the currency of flippers. When you see flippers at any card show, they're going after kabooms and they're paying 95 to 100% because they know kabooms are very liquid and because they're going to continue going up as long as the cycle continues going up. It's kind of like when we had 0% interest rates. You buy a kaboom, in two months, it's going to go up anyways. It doesn't matter if you pay 95, 100% for it. That's where we are right now. But when liquidity tightens, when people need to start, when people start wanting to sock money away a little bit more and be a little bit more cautious about their purchases, that's when I believe you have a flight to safety. And that's a timing thing. It's a market cycle because markets don't go up and up and up. There's going to be times where those cycles are going to reverse for X number of months, X number of years, whatever the case may be. And I talked about this on a podcast that I was a guest on today. We talked about having dry powder in order to be able to utilize that at the best times to purchase and to be able to sell at the best times to sell. Because what commonly happens in the middle of a bull market is you just keep buying and buying and buying when the market goes down aggressively. If you don't have that dry powder, you're going to be licking your wounds and you're not going to be able to take advantage of those long-term plays that you can make at that time period. So timing is everything. Understand that markets go in cycles and that you need to be able to have the liquidity and cash on hand to take advantage when things switch. Because right now it's all positive, and I believe it's going to be positive in the near term. But when that market reverses, what's going to happen? Now, I'm alluding to something that I'll talk about at the very end, but I do believe that there are different classes of cards that you can work within that are going to let you take advantage of those different phases of market cycles. But in summation on that, when things start to tighten up, that is, when there's less money sloshing around and everybody chucking money everywhere and all-time highs being reached every other day, that's when money flees from those SSPs that don't really have any strong contextual or historical relevance. And it starts going into those collector carts as a fleeing towards safety and taking risk off the table. Because the people that work at the highest levels of this game, they un they understand when to take risk off the table. They're going to be the first ones to do it. First ones to put risk on, the first one to take risk off. So that brings me to my second point that the market doesn't reward being right. It rewards timing. Time is really the factor of change that we use in any way, shape, or form. You can think about the seasons. We have the summer, the fall, the winter, spring. These are just ways that we can put change into a box so that we can understand what's going on within that time frame and what to expect. So if time is merely marking the passage of change, then why did I equate time to a fire? Because I believe that if you get the timing right, that can be a source of warmth, a source of life. If you get timing wrong, it can burn you and it can bird you very quickly. What this really boils down to in card markets is the compounding of time and how that leads into rapid stagnation or quickly compounding gains to the upwards. Every time you buy a card, you're putting yourself at risk of narrative decay. You are locking in opportunity cost and you are establishing your basis for and you are establishing your basis for liquidity risk. Those three things are vital when looking at how your card is going to either appreciate or de-accelerate in its earning or even start to decline in value. The narrative is going to be the first thing. Narrative is l and narrative is largely driven by the media. You see players all the time that are trying to stay relevant. And this is in many different sports. They do it in different ways. It's not just the goats who are just such superhuman athletes and people that they're able to check all of their boxes, always be polished when they're in press conferences, always leave everything on the court, be an amazing leader, all of these things that it takes to pull off the perfect generational player. Most people don't fall into those buckets, so they need to stay relevant. And sports are driven by eyeballs. How many people are watching the games? How many people are buying the merch for that team and for that player? Because that's what the player's value to the organization, to the franchise is actually built on. So sometimes they get into these gimmicky little situations where they dye their hair a different color, they start to do TikTok dances, they do all of these things in order to get more eyeballs on them, to get more people to like them. Just kind of crazy to say because they're making millions and millions of dollars. But at the end of the day, just like grade school, everyone's just trying to get everyone to like them. Now, why is this relevant when we talk about sports cards? I talk about valuation of sports cards being the market, the legacy, and the design. Now, all three of those things are going to be applied both to the player himself or herself and to the actual card itself. So when we talk about the market, those players are able to increase their market at least for a short time. They're getting more people with their names on their backs buying jerseys. They're getting more people following them on Instagram that they can show their boss at the end of the day when they have contract negotiation times. So in a way, they're engineering their own market. Now, their legacy is something that they can't really cheat the market on for very long. That's going to catch up with you. A goat is a goat is a goat. The design side is more about the card itself as well as the set that it fits in between. But that market is the thing that they can artificially inflate at that time. So narrative decay was that first thing I talked about. And that narrative that these guys try and build and that teams try and spin around them in order to get more money flowing and more attention flowing to them can decay over time. People get bored of that stuff. I don't care how many times you dye your hair. At the end of the day, I want to see you score baskets, score goals, get me touchdowns. I want my fantasy team player to get me those fake fantasy points. Now, I also talked about opportunity cost. And this is a little bit more dense, but that amount that you put into that player, let's say it's$100 into that card. You made that choice and you bought that card with that$100 that you had. Now, unless you have an infinite supply of money, you can only put that$100 into one card. And that money is going to run out. However long that's going to take, whether you have a$100,000 budget or a$100 budget, you only have a certain number of shots in the magazine, if you will. So purchasing that card of that player is the opportunity cost of the fact that you could have purchased any other card for any other player available at that time for that price point. In this case,$100. Now, I know that sounds a little bit crazy considering the full scope of what we're dealing with. There are millions, maybe billions of different cards. So trying to crunch the numbers of this card versus all of these other cards is going to drive us all into statistical insanity. But you get the idea. You can probably make a short list of 10 cards and then choose in between those if you want to be more of a steward of your opportunity cost and try and pull that lever for better financial results in your sports cards. And then the third thing I already touched on a little bit, but that liquidity risk that's present whenever you purchase a card. What if they go and they print so many more of those cards? That happened with Victor Webanyama when he was the hottest rookie to come out. And then they started printing to the moon even the next year and calling them rookie cards. Same thing with Caitlin Clark. The more they print, the less the existing cards are going to be worth because the Caitlin Clark investment is going to be spread more and more. At the end of the day, yes, we get new people into the hobby trickling in, but the end of the day, the majority of money that's in is in. And it just gets spread from thing to thing. So those are three time factors to think about when purchasing a card. What's my opportunity cost with this? What is the narrative that could be decaying here? And what's the liquidity risk? When I went over my selling mistakes and my buying mistakes, one of the things that I learned very quickly is that I was buying really illiquid players. And I was just hoping that they would pop off. That can work in prospecting, but like stocks, I think you should have a broad basket of equities, a broad basket of players or prospects that you're looking at. And then be able to build up that experience of knowing who's going to hit and who's not based off those leading indicators that happen. Follow the news cycles. What are the coaches saying about him? How have things changed in the past month? The more you can be attuned to that, the more that you can find your risk points early. You can prune your investments so that you are have your money parked into the right ones and you can make sure that your money is working for you. When I say make sure your money is working for you, one thing that I've realized and talked a lot on Slabnomics is about the velocity of money and being able to take those short wins, flip those, compound those, and keep moving on. Because it's much more valuable to you to flip and get a 20% profit in two weeks than wait for six months to try and get a hundred percent profit. I know it sounds crazy, but I will 100% of the time take that 20% profit if that card I'm selling doesn't meet that six month window and how I see things are moving. And I know when I say that, it's like Matt thinks he's clairvoyant. Absolutely not. But I do keep a very close eye on what's moving within markets. Let me give you a practical example. Kabooms. Kabooms have been exploding for some time, and it's been about the last month, and it happened overnight, especially in the soccer card market. And I believe that that's because they're almost the reserve currency of flippers. They know that kaboom's demand is always going to be high. When you think panini, you think kabooms, especially in football and in basketball. So when I see kaboom's spike in an alternate market like soccer, I know that there's new flipping money coming into that market because that shot up way too quick. So it was the first doorway that the flippers started crowding into, and that happened in the past two weeks. Kabooms doubled overnight. I think the messy ones actually tripled within two weeks. So to go back to what the point of that was, I talked about stacking these small wins unless you have a card that for that six-month window is going to be within that investment thesis that you built. For me, things like a kaboom, I'm not flipping that because I know that the demand coming in is specifically going to be looking at those carts. They want kabooms. So if they want kabooms, they can do the whole flipping thing where they can buy the kaboom for 100%, get their 10% in a week or two, and then move on and do it again. But for me, I'm just sitting there having bought a bunch of kabooms earlier this year, waiting for it to continue until there's a time where I see that it's no longer the reserve currency. It's like the dollar back 20 years ago. Nothing could beat the US dollar because all the money everywhere in commodities was priced in US dollars. So this is where rules are really made to be broken. I sit here and I say, take your 20%, put into something else, compound those gains. But when you have an asset that you see is going to continue compounding because the demand is going to continue swelling, then let that keep working for you and let it compound. But on the opposite end, when you had an investment thesis around a card that didn't work out, didn't go the way you planned, maybe the player got injured, move on quick. Take your lumps. In the past month or so, I've been taking a lot of lumps, guys, some 60% losses, some 70% losses. I was still formulating a lot of the hypotheses and investment theories that I had at that time. So I was holding on to those cards and I was waiting for them to come back. I was waiting to be right. And I had to take my lumps and I had to say, I would rather take the 30% of that initial investment and be able to kick that into something that I now know with my knowledge is going to be a much better rate of return over the next six months instead of trying to be right, instead of trying to get even. Your money doesn't remember where it was when you first invested it. So when I talk about time burning us, that's really where I see it most because it compounds the other way as well. If I bought something in a very illiquid market for a player that ended up underperforming, ended up getting sent to a smaller team, got traded, got re-signed to a smaller contract, all that's gonna happen is that more and more people are gonna jump off the ship. So the faster that you can figure that one out, move on, the more you're going to optimize the deployment of your capital, which is one of your biggest resources. But it's not your only resource. And that's why this episode is about time. Because when we think about time, and I'm gonna get a little bit philosophical with you guys now, every day we have the same amount of minutes per day. And of course, some of us sleep longer than others, some of us have more. Pressing concerns, children, spouses. Some people don't have their health. Some people have really tough circumstances where they have to work multiple jobs. So the amount of discretionary time that you have available is probably going to be different on a person-by-person basis. But at the end of the day, we all have the 24 hours. We all have 1,440 minutes in the day. And something I strongly believe is that being able to prioritize those 1,440 minutes in the most efficacious way is going to be the most beneficial thing for long-term development. Because in a seminal work, Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, who won the Nobel Prize for this work, he talked about how we use 90% of our day on autopilot. It's these systems that we built within us, system one and system two. System one autopilots us and gets us through everything with the least amount of effort and energy that we have to expel. And system two kicks into gear when we have to do complex, rational thinking. So the reason that I'm ranting about time and us all having the same amount of minutes is because I think if you want to be a better sports card investor, collector, whatever path you choose, it's really about getting your priorities as straight as possible and being able to use the amount of time and the amount of capital that you have in tandem as efficaciously as possible. So let's put it into numbers. Let's say I have 10 hours per week that I can put into cards. There's a lot of activities that I can do with that, right? I know because I've probably spent four or five thousand hours in this hobby in the past year. I have a lot of discretionary time, fortunately for me. So there's a lot of activities that I've done. And it goes everywhere from searching into sets, looking up set values so I can compare this set versus that set, reading articles about what people think about players, about prospects, about different stories that are attached to either players or sets. There's so many things that you can read about. There's so much data that you can start looking at and start fine-tuning. An easy example would be when I wanted to compare the market caps for the rookies of Ronaldo and Messi. You can go and you can find the gems, the nine, nine, fives, and tens. You can take all those, you can put the values attached to them, you can multiply them out, and you can say, if I owned all of the market cap, if I bought all of those cards, if I had the capital to do that, and I had all of them for Messi and all of them for Ronaldo for the rookies, what would that look like? Which would be more valuable? Why? Why not? Is it what I expected? You can do those kinds of things, but you are paying the value of time. You can have a podcast. You can come on here and you can rant about time. You can use time to build relationships, reach out to people. You can use your time in order to hunt. You can find things that you want to go explore and you want to find the rarest parallels or the vintage cards that no one knows about, and you want to dive into those rabbit holes of Facebook groups or going into marketplaces, hosting different countries. You can do all of these different things. There's hundreds of different iterations of how you can use the 10 hours in this example for that week. So it can be almost paralyzing to think how you can use that time most efficaciously. There's just too many options. That's where priorities come in. So it takes a little bit of an assessment, and you have to actually use your time to figure out how to use your time. But you sit down and you say, I have this amount of time that I'm going to parse out for myself each week. I want to make sure that I don't overdo it. Just like in capital, you don't want to overdo your money invested. I also don't want to overinvest my time. I don't want my fiance getting upset at me. I don't want my family life to deteriorate. I don't want to not perform as well at my job. All of these different things, right? So make sure to be balanced. But you sit there and you find out the time that you can do, write it down. You can start out in more of a general journal setting. Where are my strengths? Where are my weaknesses? One example that I would highly recommend that I do is I have started logging all of the purchases that I made and the sales that I made. And I actually look at why I made those purchases and why I made those sales. And I write it down in a spreadsheet. So I actually have that. I can look back on it. I can see where I won and I can see where I lost. And patterns start emerging when you do that. When there's hundreds of cars that you've purchased and sold, it's hard to see the patterns unless, unless you're taking note of them. And then it becomes so easy and so clear. So go back through your purchase history, write it all down, go back through your sales history, write it all down. I have spent a lot of hours doing this, but that amount of time that I invested is going to make my decisions going forward X percent better. Let's say it's 25% better. If you're getting 25% better decisions after one year and you're able to increase it by that amount every three to six months, you're going to be making very, very good decisions very, very quickly. But it took time to see all that. So there's one example of how you can prioritize your time. And now I built a system wherein every time I do a purchase, I go in there and I log it. So I've already built the groundwork. And that investment, that compound interest that I'm going to get is then going to be prevalent with every decision that I make. And also the fact that I have this system built so that I just plug it into the spreadsheet and I'm going to be able to see how it performs very quickly, much more quickly than having to spend the last week putting all of this together. So there's one thing you can do. You can do an assessment for yourself. You can also say, where do I need to bolster my knowledge about a certain thing? Maybe there was something you were curious about, but you didn't explore it at that time and you said you'd think about it later. Maybe there was something that you've noticed that you just haven't followed up on. Maybe there's different purchases that you wanted to go make and you were saving them for later. So doubling back on things can be a really valuable way to use your time. Maybe you do want to hunt something down. You can corner a market if you're very good at being creative about finding ways to get to those things that you want. I gave you a tease earlier about how I'm going to talk about something in the future. I'm going to extend that tease. I'm not going to tell you right now. But this is going to tie in to that, trying to hunt down certain things. Another thing you can prioritize, and this sounds crazy, selling, right? And I'm sure if you're buying and selling sports cards, you're like, I already do that. And you just moved on and you probably fast-forwarded through this. But I'm going to tell you that most of us have a bunch of cards sitting around that we purchase here or purchase there, and they're not really worth our time. So you can unlock your time by sending those out to a consignment service. Now I think this is one of the levels of getting to intermediate buying and selling, understanding how to purchase back your time. For instance, I've sent about six or seven hundred cards to Compsy. Compsy is made for people that are set collecting. So sending cards there, usually you can send five, six dollar cards there, and they will trickle in sales over time. So my initial thought was any cards that I get that are good for set collectors, I'll just shoot off to Compsy. But I think I put that at about$50 when I first started using it six or seven months ago. About a month ago, what I realized is why am I selling a$50 card on eBay? Maybe I get$10 more doll than I would have got at Compsy. I can just send all of these cards that are$200 or less over to Compsy, and then I can auction them out through Compsy. So if you know that these cards are not part of your investing future, there's no real play that you feel in your gut. You gotta be really in tune with your gut on this stuff. If you think about the card and if you get that meh feeling, send it off, get it sold, park that money into something that's using your knowledge and using your investment thesis for how something can pan out, how a market is valuing something improperly. Because when you have enough darts that you're throwing at that dartboard, it gives you a much better chance to hit the bullseye. Having the dart sitting there in the dartboard isn't going to move it any closer to the bullseye. So buying back your time with Compsy, sending things off, you guys take care of all the shipping on this, the listing on this, all of that good stuff. I just save myself 30, 40 hours. And yeah, I paid you 14% to do that. But but one thing that I really learned in the past couple years is when you buy back your time, you're not trading that time for the same amount of time. You're actually doubling your time. Compsy is now using that 30, 40 hours that I would have used in order to list, to ship, to talk to people on eBay, to negotiate, all that good stuff. They're doing that for me. Those 30, 40 hours are still being done, but I'm also now using my 30 or 40 hours to something that I can more highly specialize towards and be better at. So unlocking your time actually multiplies your effort, and that's a huge way to compound your time, compound your decision making, and compound your ability to increase capital. So that's where the fire is. Fire is one of the most important elements for men, but it can just as easily burn us as warm us. Being able to use it as a tool in the same way that we can use time, we can use those 14, 40 minutes per day, means that each day is becoming more and more a compounding positively instead of a compounding negatively. And I want to encourage you guys to invest that time to figure out how you can get your priorities correct in order to make sure that you're making better financial decisions. That's what I'm here to help you out with. And I appreciate the time that you've given me. Now I've teased you guys enough, but what I want to say here, one last thing about time. We've talked about market cycles, market timing. I didn't really touch on this, but off-season versus during the season can be a huge difference in valuations just because of that. And that goes back to the attention, but also the movements of markets through cycles is so incredibly important to understand as an investment filter. And the conclusion and the thing that I've been teasing you with this entire time is built on these tenets of time. New releases have the characteristics of ever-expanding supply and narrative-based investment. That is why 98, 99% of cards that are printed are going to go down over time in modernity. So the crazy conclusion that I'm actually going to leave you with is that vintage markets are the long-term source of value. Maybe saying that you nod your head and you're like, of course it is. But I think that when money is sloshing around, you're going to see it sloshing around most in modern cards. But when we have a flight to safety, when the bottom of these crazy parallels to$299 drops out, that money that's invested within the hobby is going to flee towards vintage because that supply doesn't get bigger. And that's how compounding works. The demand gets flushed into those risk-off assets that are insulated from narrative-based risks and have populations that are stable and technically decreasing. So as hype cools, as bull markets run their course, I would expect to see vintage popping off in pretty much every sport. Think about a hundred years from now, a Mickey Mantle, a 1952 mantle. Is that going to be more or less? I think we could say pretty assuredly it's going to be more because the population is so small and the demand will just keep going higher and higher. The vintage market is the safest store of value in the hobby and the most immune to the ravages of time. So the takeaways we have a limited amount of time. The usage of it as capital, as a tool is of the utmost importance. And as we hone our priorities and hone our decision making in tandem, that is going to allow us to make better financial decisions and just better overall personal decisions with time. Time is a multiplier. Time is a risk. Time is a tack. But most of all, time is truth. Because on a long-term horizon, investment is always driven by fundamentals. And that's something we need to remember when there's so much hype going on in so many different sports markets. And just remember, vintage is the only market that wins because of time, not in spite of it. So I hope this episode was beneficial for you guys. Thanks for staying with me. I would love to know if this episode gave you guys anything to think about. I love hearing the DMs when you guys come in and tell me the things that really gripped you most. I love getting all the comments on my posts. So follow me at Slabnomics, check me out on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts, and share with a friend who you think is going to be interested in this kind of philosophical stuff. So as always, whether you are investing or collecting, keep building. And I'll talk to you later.