Hello everyone, welcome to the Said in Therapy Podcast. Have you ever considered going to therapy and you ended up not going? My question is why? In my humble opinion, I believe everyone can benefit from therapy. In fact, I believe everybody should go at least once in their life. My name is Iman Tohami, and I'm a psychologist. This podcast tells you all about everyday cases with everyday people who have everyday problems and difficulties, and sometimes they carry around really deep wounds. These are their stories. Today I want to introduce someone very, very special to me. She's a woman fully capable of wearing many hats. Muna Harib carries so many titles. For example, she was chosen to be among the 100 most powerful Arab women. She is a chief marketing officer. She is an international humanitarian, an entrepreneur, an avid traveler, and a mom. You know, she's definitely all of those titles. But to me, Muna is first and foremost a very, very good friend. She has been a constant throughout the last years. I met her six or seven years ago while working on the project Breathing Numbers that she had started. The project supported Syrian refugees just at the beginning of the war. But from one first meeting grew a really beautiful friendship. You know, one of those friendships that can go from weeks without hearing a peep from one another to picking up the phone to just continue where we left off. We traveled together, we cried together, and above all we laugh together a lot. And I believe you will hear that throughout the conversation. I talked to Muna about her strength to transform hardship into something very positive. And even though you will not instantly hear it, reading between the lines, you will understand that she is a person who went through a lot and always made it to the other side. I really hope that this conversation benefits and inspires you just as much as it had inspired me while recording. Little does Muna know, but at the moment of recording it was exactly what I needed. So you know I don't want to build up the tension. Just here we go. Enjoy the conversation.
SPEAKER_00Hi Iman!
SPEAKER_01We're finally here. Yes, that's insane. So everybody should know that we have been trying to record this since I don't know, two years. It's been a very long time. We have been talking about this forever.
SPEAKER_00Finally, this is what happens, you know, when um moms become entrepreneurs. Yes, their schedules are always kind of um controlled by the schedule of their kids. That's very, very true.
SPEAKER_01So I just want to say that Muna is uh probably one of the women that I respect the most. She's really one of those people that inspire me. And coming from me, I think it's uh fair to say that this is not an easy thing to say. Uh, I'm not easily impressed. But I have met Muna, I think in 2015, if I'm not mistaken, or 2014. When did Breathing Numbers start, Muna? I can't remember.
SPEAKER_00So we started in 2013, Iman. Yes and we probably met either that year or in 2014, because you joined Breathing Numbers at the very early uh beginnings of it. Correct, correct.
SPEAKER_01So breathing numbers is I think it's best you describe what it is, um, so if everybody knows it's your baby after all. Sure.
SPEAKER_00So Breathing Numbers, it's it actually started as a documentary project, something that I wanted to do on a personal level to try and convey the stories of Syrian refugees, especially in the Syria uh in the refugee camps in Jordan and on the border of Syria. And from a one-man or a one-woman show at the very beginning, and a focus on documenting those stories through social media and through video and audio footages. I've actually done hundreds of those. It moved from that environment very quickly to a full-fledged humanitarian act. And I think the reason behind that was the um strong response from the social media uh community, from the UAE community, and very soon after, even from the international community. And um it, I think it kind of uh struck a very sensitive chord with everyone. Um, it happened at the beginning of the Syrian war, and there was not much um you know um efforts and news and uh social media conversations and community conversations around it. So having breathing numbers bring that to the everyday man and woman on social media kind of intrigued people, and it encouraged people to move and to contribute and to even launch their own projects of support. So uh, and and that's in a nutshell what breathing number numbers is. It was born in 2013 and it started very strongly um you know, uh involving people, not just from the region, not just from the UAE where I'm from, but also from the international uh scene. And we had volunteers from all over the world uh and people contributing, even from countries like I had people um, you know, um communicating with me and texting me from Nicaragua, I had volunteers from Malaysia, I had others from uh Germany and so on. So um again, from what began as just documenting stories and conveying those stories of Syrian refugees um to the rest of the world, it became a humanitarian project that involved so many people and um kind of encouraged so many contributions toward the cause.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? At that point I had participated in many charities, and I was very picky about the causes that I was joining, just simply because for time reasons, because you're very at some point you have to be a little bit more selective about the projects that you're joining. I remember hearing you first in a phone call, and you simply said to me, So, well, breathing numbers is basically, I want to tell you what it stands for. I always hear people in the news, and it's always about the numbers. And I want people to know that these numbers are breathing, these are people with stories and um things. Yes, and absolutely. I had this phone call with you, and I remember I was like, wow, I really want to work with this woman. So I want to be honest, of course, I was 100% for this cause and for this project, and this whole movement was simply so amazing watching it unfold and becoming what it was or what it is. And I remember thinking to myself, I really want to work with this woman, she's amazing. And the second thought that I had, and this is something that I wanted to talk to you about today, you always had this great ability to move from hardship to something positive. I have seen you personally doing that more than once since we have first met. And I think I want to discuss this a little bit with you. Where is this coming from?
SPEAKER_00Wow. I think first of all, Iman, um having you part of the uh Breathing Numbers team, uh it was such a great addition to us, and you also brought so much, if not so much experience in whatever you're doing, but so much joy as well to the whole team. And the nice thing about Breathing Numbers is that everyone who was involved, he they wanted to be involved for the sake of you know making it better, right? There was no other hidden agenda, there was no personal um you know uh agenda or benefit that came out of it. We're actually the majority of people who got involved involved, um, they had if they're volunteers, they had to pay for their own uh expenses to volunteer, whether travel uh expenses, accommodation expenses, you know, um anything related uh to supporting the cause, everyone had to bear their own expenses. Um most of the media that we've done, it was focused on the causes itself, not much around the people uh that were involved. Everyone was free to communicate on their own social media in terms of their experiences and so on. So that kind of setup that we had that whoever was in had absolutely no personal agenda to be a part of this project brought so many great people like yourself in the mix. Yes. And that kind of energy, it's I think it was the soul and the main purpose that made breathing numbers what it is and made it grow in such a strong and fast way, um, especially at the beginning. And that kind of energy that you brought along with the other main uh and founder volunteers that we had, that energy is the reason behind uh Breathing Numbers, succeeding um around the world and getting international recognition and attracting similar similar mindsets and similar energy uh to it. Now, back to your question, where do I get this from? I think I mean I mean, you probably know the answer, Iman. I always talk about my mom and my father, and you know how um I'm I'm closer to my mom than my father. The reason for that is my father passed away uh when I was much younger, um, though, and my mom passed away just uh like what is it, two, three years back in 2017. So, what happened was I learned so much from both of them throughout my life. And I come from a very modest family. And part of what my mom and dad used to do when we grow up is to continuously share with us their stories, how they came together, how they brought up the family, what kind of hardship that they had to go through. And my mom, especially because we've spent a lot of time with my mother as a girl and as the youngest in the family as well, she could continuously shared with us, you know, how she managed to hold the family together when my father was traveling for months at a time, trying to uh make a living basically across uh uh the oceans. And he was a pearl diver, right? Yeah, so he was a lot of things. Yes. And um when he was younger, he he was into pearl diving, and um that and that by itself such a difficult um you know path and career and job to have back in those days because it's so dangerous, right? They didn't have the equipment, uh, they had all of these restrictions. Um it was it was difficult, but then he moved into trading, and he used to be part of um you know trading uh trips to India, to Asia and other parts of the world. And then toward the um you know later stages of his life, my father focused on uh being a mechanic for the ministry. I think it was the Ministry of Um Labor, if I'm not mistaken. So, and that was his passion. He loved, you know, he loved playing with cars. He loved, and and that was you know a very interesting conversation to have in the house when we are young. When I see my mom getting upset on why my father is always, you know, playing with the car, with the with the engine, taking things out, and then putting it in again. It was such a such a passionate project for my for my dad to uh do that. And then so when my father was away, my mom had to kind of keep the house running, right? And back then, and I'm talking um, you know, even even before I was born in the 60s and the 50s, it was pretty hard back then, right? We we didn't have what we have today, we didn't have the luxury of technology, we didn't have the luxury of um you know the infrastructure that we have here, we didn't have the supporting um systems and structures that we have today. So um things, for example, like uh back then when it used to rain very hard, uh the water used to overtake houses before, and people had to kind of dig um um you know around the house by themselves in order to kind of protect the house from the water. And my mom used to do that when she was uh on her own. Um when my father was away, also, you know, she had to figure out how to make money till he comes back um, you know, uh comes back home uh with money and with support. Now, seeing my mom you know go through all of this and she continuously tells us about her stories when she was young, um, how she used to bring water at uh on eed. Uh she used to live in the mountains when she was a child. She used to walk two hours on eight day to bring water from the mountains and back to the family on her shoulder. So there was a lot of interesting stories that she showered us with. And what we learned from those stories is basically everything that happened to my mom built who she was, right? And toward the end of her life, my my mother kind of uh transformed herself completely. So from someone who couldn't read and write for the majority of her life, who went through so much hardship, who didn't have much to enjoy and um and give to her kids. At one point of her life, she started going to a Quran, um, a religious uh school where she learned how to read and write through reading Quran. And and that was, I think, in her late 50s. Wow. Yeah. And then soon after you see her, you know, watching the news, you should see you see her reading newspapers. And when my brother passed away, uh, he left um an a consultancy company. And you have no idea, Iman, how much I admire my mom. For someone who never went to school, she started managing that company from home. Wow. An architectural consultancy. And so she man, she started managing it along with my father from home. And then little by little she built herself, she started getting into properties. And um, at one point, and this is a story I love telling, is uh she had a small building um in uh Sharjah, and the way she managed to build that building is by convincing you know the um developers and the uh construction company to delay the payments till the uh building is over because she didn't want to take any money from the bank. She doesn't believe in uh interest. Um for her interest equals riba. So she's uh stayed away from um you know taking any loans from the banks, and she managed to build that building uh without taking any loans. She didn't have money enough money to build it, but had the power of convincing those companies she worked with to delay the payments till she starts renting it out.
SPEAKER_01Now I know where you can get this from.
SPEAKER_00I mean, this could be like it's kind of a longer version of uh where I got this from. But my mom basically, regardless, everything that happened in her life, the hardship that she went through, she always managed to come up and come out from it with something positive. And I think this we we learned this. Um, I've been through so much in my life as well. I would never say as much as my mom. We're like I said, we're blessed to be born in this uh time and age. But everything I've I've gone through, there's always that side of me that says, right, you know, I'm going through this. But look at, you know, other people from around the world. Look how bad they have it. I'm so blessed that the extent of my misery remains, you know, on my doorstep. So I still have a roof on my head, I still have, you know, um, the income that supports me throughout my life, I still have a family that loves me, I still have my health. So no matter what happens to me, it doesn't really um get close to what's happening to people around the world. And I think this is uh is enforced by the uh activities I do in the humanitarian field and the community impact uh programs that I've always been involved in. And it's probably the reason I'm involved in those projects is to bring that kind of mindset into my life, to make sure that whatever happens to me is never comparable to what happens to other people, and I always have the evidence in my daily dealings with them uh to prove that.
SPEAKER_01Um, if if that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense and it explains a lot. You know, um most people don't know this about you, but I have seen you in settings that made me think, wow, who is this person? I remember when we met in Hatta one day and we went to your farm to meet your dog, and I think there was a set with a donkey, and he was so extremely cute. And now, just for the people to get an idea of who you are, um, you are fully capable of being fully glam, glammed up, going to events, speaking at events. Um you are fully um capable of having brands if you want, but there is this person getting out of her car, uh dropping everything, and basically going barefoot inside the shed to clean it up. And believe it or not, Muna, this is basically the most favorite image I have.
SPEAKER_00Uh Iman, an image of me and a donkey. Uh, I have to re-evaluate myself. You know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01There was there was so much uh beauty in in what you do, and um I I always believe I'm a true believer of people who treat animals well, you can see their true and full character in these moments. I I have a problem with people who don't treat animals well, and um I don't trust them for some reason. But when I can see someone actually not caring, because an animal has nothing to give to you. But if you can go to that animal and treat it with respect, then I will respect you. And I think this is basically what I want people to understand. Having said that, just sorry, I will let you speak in a moment, but I want just to go to the part of your life that you hardly ever speak about. You are an extremely successful woman. If someone saw your CV, they would probably probably drop that. It's what you have accomplished in your life is mashallah, we have to say it's especially in the Middle East for a woman to accomplish what you did is not an easy task. Here's the thing you hardly speak about it. So I think for the longest time I didn't even know what you did for a living, because it was never one of the things that you would just speak about. Your titles, you have many titles, but the title that you have in your workplace is hardly something that you talk about, it's hardly something that defines you. And I think in the Middle East, in the region specifically, it's very important to highlight this because everybody is somehow all about their titles, right? And what they can offer and what they have, materialistically speaking. And you're not that kind of person. And I think it's very interesting to see that.
SPEAKER_00I think Iman there's a lot of people like that. And the reason the reason you don't see them is precisely because of who they are, right? Yeah. So gotcha. The type of people who are very focused on you know the status quo, let's say, are very engaged. In public platforms to bring that kind that side of them to the world. The type of people who are not interested in that part of themselves, they will never put an effort to uh let's say uh promote that to the rest of the world. And this is precisely why you think uh there are not so many people out there like that. I think it's really it goes all back to the priorities of people, right? So it's not right or wrong. People in the first category, the one that um care about, you know, what level they reach, what title they hold, they're very interested to reflect that um, you know, in their conversations and um and the way they position themselves and brand themselves uh to the public, they have, you know, they're passionate about that, and that's not wrong. They have a passion in that area. Um they some of them they worked really hard to achieve that, and that's absolutely there's no fault in that. I have my passion lies in other areas of my personality and my life, which I like to focus on more than my job and my profession. And this is probably, and coming from a person who, you know, my my uh bread and butter is in marketing, it's something that I probably shouldn't be saying. But I um on a personal level, I'm not much interested in um, you know, the glamour side of uh uh personal branding. Now I'm looking at it from the perspective that in order for me to convey my message to the rest of the world, to convey my causes, and to, you know, I always talk about positive change. And I think, especially nowadays, the only way for me to do that is probably by reconsidering my personal brand and thinking about bringing myself out there more often and talking to people and on platforms like this platform with you, Iman, uh, more. So, yes, I've never been interested, but the more I grow, the more time that passes by, the more I realize that all these components, my professional life, my love of humanitarian uh work and community impact, and uh, you know, my passion of travel, you know me, I'm travel is something I never really talk about on social media and uh in general to people and to the media, but it's it's a huge, huge part of my personality and who I am. I'm an avid traveler, I traveled uh you know to more than 70 countries repeatedly. I I I you know I always had that target to reach the um 196 UN registered countries in the world, but I continue to go back to the same countries over and over again uh for the love of that. But I'm a traveler as well. But the most recent one and the one that probably tops all of that is the fact that I'm a mother now. And this is kind of if you ask me at the beginning, who am I, I would probably tell you I'm the I'm a Mosa, the mother of Mosa. And she's the one thing that is defining everything else I'm doing in life. So all of these components, I think it's very important for me at this point of time to bring them together and package them as one um under the umbrella of Muna, basically, and present them as uh one package to the uh public. Um, I can't take bits and pieces. I'm uh a marketeer for over 20 years, and this is something that I cannot neglect. I've been neglecting to communicate that because I'm always focused on um, you know, when it comes to my marketing and communication expertise, I'm focusing, uh I focus on bringing that to the company I work in. So I'm pretty successful in that area, but I've never used it to promote or market my personal brand. Now, what I just mentioned is I'm reconsidering that because I think this is the way forward to put my message out there. And if I want that positive change in the world that I continuously talk about and comment about, I think I need to do something about it and actually uh start creating uh you know content and uh putting some uh positive energy and probably work on some projects in that area um in a more uh effective way. So um yeah, um I think this is what I would identify uh with uh Iman, um a mother that wears so many hats, including her professional work, including her passion of humanitarian and um you know community impact projects and making, you know, making the world a little bit better than what it is, and my strong passion in travel and uh recently uh my new venture into entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_01I'm actually so excited to see what comes next. I know we have discussed privately a lot of things, and I can't wait for uh for you to do what you're about to do because I think there's so much value in the things you want to, you know, present to the world or give to the world the message that you have to convey. And yeah, I'm actually very excited about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, me too, Iman. And I think um it's safe, it's safe to say that whatever's coming next is really based again on who I am and and the M's, the M's I just mentioned. Yes, myself, as in Muna, my mother, my mother's name was Mosa, and my daughter who takes my mother's names, Mosa as well. So these three M's, these are the kind of formula that are creating my next venture and my next uh adventure as well. And um the project I'm working on takes elements from these three people with these three stages of my life, because I was also extremely uh close to my mother. So everything that links me to these three individuals, including myself, they have um an ingredient in the project I'm working on at the moment.
SPEAKER_01Just a few questions left. I think um I wanted to ask you, apart from obviously your daughter and um being grateful for what you have in life, how do you maintain your mental health when you feel really down? What do you do?
SPEAKER_00I talk to you. I think I need an expert to talk to. But no, that's true. I do talk to you, you know. It's been, I think you've seen over the years, it's been a habit for me to come back to you between time to time and kind of um let's say extract some strength from you, you know, that contagious strength that you carry. And um I think the other important element as well is for me now, it was a slightly difficult, you know, being a single mom to start with, right? So the support that I have is very much in my small family between myself uh and my daughter. And of course, I have the uh occasional extended support from uh my bigger family. Um, but with that, and you know, uh working in a job from 9 to 6, plus all my other activities and my other projects. At the beginning, it was quite hard being a new mom and you know, having my child at the beginning of the COVID-19 uh pandemic. It was quite tricky for me to understand how I can um balance all of this together. So it took me some time, it took me a bit of time, I wouldn't say much, but it took me probably around a couple of months at the beginning to figure it out, and now I'm getting better with it. And um, I know 2020 has been so hard on so many people, um, yet everything has a blessing in disguise. And I think the situation for me is um COVID made it possible for me to stay at home with my child and watch her grow in her first few months. And so that's kind of when people talk about 2020, uh, my heart, you know, um feels every bit of sorrow for everyone who got affected throughout throughout the world. But there's you know a small bit in my heart as well that feels, you know, I'm blessed. 2020 has been a blessed year for me. I have my daughter Moza, you know, I get to stay with her. I'm starting to venture into new areas of entrepreneurships. I talk to you about also starting a podcast soon, depending on you, Iman, to give me a few tips and uh we will get you there, don't worry.
SPEAKER_01We will get you there. And we will promote your heart and say, check out Muna. And honestly, um you should check out Muna regardless. Um, and I will link all her handles below. You have you should, I mean, obviously, she's not very active at the moment, but that will change very soon.
SPEAKER_00I'm getting I'm getting more active because I think the you know, if I put my marketing hat at the moment, the most important bit um that we have in the in the marketing and communication area at this point of time is storytelling and content. Yes. And regardless what industry you work in, regardless who you are, what message you have to the rest of the world, you need to start putting content out now, like right this moment. Yes. Even if you don't feel there's any message behind it, any point of it, start practicing, start putting yourself out there. And I think the uh again, number one reason why people don't do that is the fear of failure, and they feel that there's a possibility that they would be embarrassed or that they will have negative um, you know, negative comments or negative response from the market that they put their content to. You'd probably have a few of those, and you'll probably get embarrassed, embarrassed by some of the content. But you know what? Who cares?
SPEAKER_01Honestly, you know how I handled the situation because we have talked about this a lot. I I have been very hesitant to to start my own podcast or even thinking about a YouTube channel or anything like that. And I I discovered if I just uh release podcasts or if I just publish anything and I don't go back, it's fine. Once I re-listen to what I have published, it can get really hard.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely, but you always have to continue publishing, exactly. That's the trick of it, even if, like, I don't know, take a picture of your foot today and post it. You know, do you know, take a picture of anything right now in front of you and just post it. And you know, the funny thing as well, that um talking about storytelling, it's not a matter of having your content on one channel. If you want to have, you know, to promote your business or to uh promote your message or to support a cause or whatever objective that you have, you need to put content on multiple platforms. And what I find very interesting is in recent um, probably the last couple of years or even especially in the last few months, LinkedIn has been transformed completely. I agree. And it moved from a platform where you know it's all about job hunting, it's uh more of a very focused business to business to a more social platform that allows people to interact more socially, uh, to have uh tools under their hand where they can create live streams, they can video chat. Uh, there's a lot of things that you can do in LinkedIn that you couldn't do a couple of years ago. And I think if LinkedIn continues this way, it it will probably take over some of the other popular social media platforms that we have today. And the other one is, which I was completely against, and um I never understood the uh you know reason uh of its being is TikTok. I took it, you know, upon me to register in TikTok and go through the content. And I was extremely shocked and surprised by the kind of content I found there. There's even cooking, cooking videos over there, recipe videos. Absolutely, absolutely, and you have all sorts of content. And I I'm not ashamed to say this anymore, but I look at TikTok almost daily because what it does, it gives you that very quick dose of brain food. It depends on the channels that you follow. So I have a list of channels from the likes of Gary Vee, for example. Um, you know, who gives you marketing, his marketing expert. He's I think he's a genius in marketing. So I always follow him. And it's always these very quick tips in a few seconds, and it's done. So it gives you that kind of steroid on any subject that you want to do. Yes, yes, instant gratification.
SPEAKER_01You hear something and it gives you instantly an idea. Right? It pumps you up.
SPEAKER_00It pumps you up. You go, you know, I'm gonna do it, you know. This is all I need to, you know, to get started. So it gives you that. So I think that's a very, even for you, Iman, I think that's a very important platform to get on because it's not only about you know creating musical videos and acting uh funny in front of the camera. It has a very strong platform, especially that it's a young platform for conveying messages. And if you want to create positive change in the world, where you know better than a young platform to start, right? You start with the young ones before you go uh older, if you want to change the world.
SPEAKER_01No, I I fully agree. And to tell you a secret, I to have a TikTok account. I I I still haven't published anything yet, but I fully agree with you. And I think since you mentioned Gary V, I think he was one of the people who actually mentioned LinkedIn before. And I believe if if if you want if you want to build a successful business, you have to really grab all the resources that are there, even though it might feel out of your comfort zone. I agree with that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I I used to avoid Gary V at the beginning because of the language he used. Same. And then it's like, you know what? Let me just listen to the guy for a second. And once I started, I got addicted. I bought all his books. Um, I started listening to him daily, um, not only on TikTok, of course, but all his channels. Um, he gives me that kind of power. But I do have a long list of uh interesting people to listen to as well.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I think uh the uh I think what very successful people have in common, generally speaking, there is always uh this humility that they carry with them because the most successful people I know are very approachable. So if you go to them and tell them, hey, this is what I was thinking about, I want to start my own business, they will not hold back on their knowledge, they will share it with you and actually give you tips on how to make it happen. And I actually, same as you when it comes to Garvy. Um, I had the same thoughts about him and the same concerns, but then later on, when I took the time to actually look at his content, I was convinced that he's actually very cool.
SPEAKER_00He's not everyone's cup of tea. I I see I've seen some some friends, you know, uh they don't like him much. But I think he just tells it as it is. I agree, and uh, you know, without making this a promotional uh podcast for Gary. Oh Gary V. Maybe we should share it with Gary V. Maybe we we should send him the link. Shout out to Gary V. So um no, but it's he's absolutely someone that everyone has to listen to. He makes it simple, he gives it, you know, he says it as it is, and in a very simple uh language and uh one that communic can connect to the audience.
SPEAKER_01Good Muna. This is my last question for you. How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm good, I'm great, actually.
SPEAKER_01I love to hear that.
SPEAKER_00Like I said a few minutes ago, Iman, um 2020 has been difficult for the entire world, but it gave me my space to realize who I am, to focus on my child, to understand what I want to do next, to understand myself. Um, you know, I had a very uh the last few years uh before having my my child has been so difficult for me. So it was kind of an up and down for me in the last few years. Um, but this year made it possible for me, with everything happening in the world, made it possible for me to stay stationary and focus in one place and have my mind and my brain and you know my my spirit all focused on one thing and one thing only. And that was Mozart in the first few months. You know, I was learning how to be a mother basically, and I didn't have the tools around me because of the whole COVID situation and the restrictions from people visiting and so on. So I had to figure it out myself. So I mean, sometimes I feel I shouldn't be saying this, but it's been great.
SPEAKER_01Actually, you know what? I think 2020 has been a year of loss and reflection for so many people, and believe it or not, there are so many people I spoke to who actually seem more settled in who they are and what they want to achieve. And what also happened is because there were so there was limited um chance to have social interaction, and with that, also networking events didn't happen, right? Um, business events didn't happen. So this pretentious site that is often very hard for people to carry wasn't simply there anymore, and you were able to go back to the roots. So it's not abnormal to hear that. I think 2020 has been good for many people, but it has also been very difficult for many people. And I think this is what we need to keep in mind when when we had a good year, that we leave the capacity for people who weren't as lucky, let's put it that way.
SPEAKER_00I think also though, um, because of how many people were taking it so hard, there was a lot of interesting gestures from around the world to support uh this group of people, you know, just looking at the social media and the media in general and seeing gestures. I think it was in Italy, for example, where they had um, you know, uh people went out in their balconies and started playing music. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, or they started like chanting um uh a specific song that the entire block starts started singing together. Another shot, um I another piece of news I read once about people going around and supporting um individuals who are going through a hard time by buying them groceries, leaving it on their doors, by sending them messages. People started going on the borders and placing um distant uh tables across each other to at least talk from a distance and communicate and support each other. And there were so many, so many uh pieces of stories and you know uh support uh news that came out during that period and made it, you know, so made me happy basically to see there's a lot of goodness coming out of this as well. They it wasn't the world wasn't dependent only on governments or on the healthcare system or on scientists to come up with a solution or make it a bit easier. Everyone tried to figure out a way by themselves, everyone tried to figure out how to help other people, whether they're neighbors or in far distances. So it was it was a good year from some in some aspect of it, uh, regardless of everything we went uh through.
SPEAKER_01I think we just went full circle because if you remember, I asked you in the very beginning how you turn hardship into something positive. And I think we all just witnessed how you have done that for all of us. I thank you so much, Muna. We finally made it, and I really appreciate I really appreciate you giving me your time. I know time is precious, especially when you have a little baby. But yeah, I love and miss you, and I really hope that I get to see you soon. Um that's it, Iman.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Iman. And um honestly, I really enjoy this conversation, and I've been, I think I I've been the one who's nagging you to get uh this done in the last few days because I was so excited to have it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and so you have done it once, you will do it again, and we are looking forward to subscribing to your podcast.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. I'll you'll be the first one who I'll announce my podcast too. Perfect. Um, so it'll have all the details ahead of everyone else. Thank you, Iman. That was really, really enjoyable, and I really wish you all the success in the world with this podcast. And you're changing so many people's lives. I've listened to so many of the episodes you had, and um, I think what you're doing is extremely, extremely um um, you know, courage, courageous, and it's so inspiring. And if you can do even a podcast about yourself, I think that you should do that. I witnessed your journey throughout the years, and I witnessed the change, the struggle at the beginnings of what you wanted to do. I I think it was like two years ago when you talked about it. And seeing you making it happen, I think this is absolutely, absolutely inspiring. And you should definitely um, you know, go through your story and tell it to the rest of the world. I would definitely have you on my podcast to do so, but to your own audience, they really need to know who Iman is, how she how she made it, and how she became what she is today. Thank you so much. Thank you, Iman, for that. Thank you. I really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. Hey, thank you so much for tuning in. And hopefully, you will tune in again next week. It will be another episode talking to or about clients of mine, and you can find us on social media on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. The handle is always @saidintherapy. Thank you so much.