Safe To Be Seen
Join Brandon & Darci as they share raw human stories that were never meant to be hid. This is a space for truth, a home to the soul. You are safe to be seen - and to see.
Safe To Be Seen
Life You Didn’t Plan: Divorce, Becoming Again & Finding Safety in the Unknown
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What happens when life doesn’t go the way you thought it would?
In this conversation with Heather Speth, we open up about the kind of transitions that reshape you — divorce, long seasons of being alone, stepping into motherhood in your 40s, and the expansion of faith that comes when everything familiar falls away.
This isn’t about “figuring it out.”
It’s about becoming someone new inside the unknown.
We talk about identity shifts, nervous system safety through massive life changes, and how to stay connected to yourself when life asks you to let go of everything you once knew.
We also share the heart behind our book Grounded — and why helping children build inner safety and connection to the earth may be one of the most important things we can offer the next generation.
If you’re in a season you didn’t choose… this one is for you.
GROUNDED: Helping Kids Find Inner Safety and Earth-Rooted Connection - 50 Guided Lessons for Parents and Teachers https://a.co/d/0f2zrYI6
Own Your Rhythm: Unleash the power of feminine cycles. https://a.co/d/0fyqbRzs
Moonlit Learning: Lunar Year Adventure For Kids https://a.co/d/06uuO9s6
Holos Healing: 30 Days of Somatic Meditation: https://darci-burke.mykajabi.com/offers/FXbMNHJ7/checkout
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When you can really connect with the earth, but also with your your own body, really, really feel like a connection to the earth cycles and seasons. I think there's a really deep sense of belonging there because you you start to feel like you're part of something that's much older and larger than you are. The earth is like completely inclusive. There's no judgment, like everyone is welcome here. And there's there's just such a sense of belonging. I think when you can really tap into that. And I feel like that's really a message that I'm trying to portray so much in the books that I've written in the book with you, is like in a world where there's people are feeling so isolated, like you don't need to feel that way when you can really, really connect with the world around you. Like there's such a sense of belonging.
SPEAKER_00So much of our lives are shaped by scripts. We never consciously chose patterns around love, success, safety, and belonging. And at some point, those scripts stop working. What once protected us starts to limit us. Safe to be seen as a space for honest conversations about that moment when your body knows it's time for something new. We talk about what it means to build safety first, so growth, intimacy, and expansion don't come at the cost of yourself. This podcast is about updating outdated identities, softening survival patterns, and learning how to stay present through change. We're Darcy and Brandon, and this is Safe2Be Seen.
SPEAKER_07Welcome everyone. Back to another episode of Safe to Be Seen. And I have been so excited about this interview today because I get to interview somebody so special to me. My sister Heather is here in the studio today. And um I know that this episode is gonna feel um very grounded and very resonant to a lot of people because as I was like feeling into this episode and feeling into my sister Heather, this energy of groundedness and presence just kept on coming to me. And it's because this is how I have known Heather for all of my life of just this very grounded, peaceful, quiet yet powerful presence. And I've really needed that in my life because I feel like I've always been like chaotic, you need to be the center of attention, you're the fun one, rascally little sister. And so Heather's always brought me back to myself just through her presence. And you know, when I was initially, this episode was all just gonna be about this book that we are that we have been creating together all this past year, which we'll we will get to, but I was thinking, like, there is so much more to Heather's life and her journey of this human experience that I know is going to be so helpful to people listening. And Heather has been through initiations through death and initiations through rebirth that have come out in really sacred ways, I feel. And I feel like Heather's story also speaks to um a timeline that you didn't really expect it to go. And the whole journey of that that I think will really resonate, especially with a lot of women who expected their life to go a certain way, but didn't. And what was learned through that experience.
SPEAKER_06So Heather, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_07It's been an honor. Yes. Um, Heather is uh my like I said, my oldest sister. There's four, four, four girls and then two boys. And I'm the youngest of those four girls. And we had a really special childhood in that we grew up in a hundred-year-old farmhouse out in this very small town. Kind of we at the time we thought it was far away from the city, but it was really like a five-minute drive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06But it felt so far away.
SPEAKER_07We couldn't ride our bikes into town. No. And um so we really like spent a lot of time with each other as kids, I feel like, because we didn't have a lot of neighbors to run off and go play with. And I have so many memories of us playing hours of Barbies. Remember that? Oh yeah. Or Barbie house and dressing them up. Yeah. Oh yeah. And playing pageant. Yes. And I would get so mad if you guys didn't choose me as the winner. And all the time out playing on the farm and uh watching Days of Our Lights together. And I just I feel so lucky because of the sisters I was able to grow up with. Sure. Just have these three older sisters that have always been amazing examples to me. And um, you know, we share just I think a really deep love for each other and grew up with two incredible loving present parents have.
SPEAKER_05I know we're both gave us so much, gave us so much. Yeah, both really grateful for.
SPEAKER_07So Heather, tell us a little bit about yourself. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Let's just start there. Well, thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here. Um yeah, so I I'm a partner to my husband, Jim, and we are homesteaders on a little piece of land in the Uinta Basin of Utah. And um, I'm a mom to our little Wilder. He's five, stepmom to three amazing kids, Sage, Jaden, and Eden, who are quite a bit older. We have a really big gap between them and our youngest, which has been really fun. Um, I own a nature school on our little homesteads. We have kids coming to our land every week to learn about and immerse in nature. It has been one of my greatest adventures, actually. Just so much fun. Learned a lot. And um, yeah, um, your sister. We were working on a couple of projects together, which is gonna be like great. Um yeah, I think that's a pretty good introduction.
SPEAKER_07What do you want people to maybe know about you, Heather, before we start diving into the chapters of your life?
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, I feel like I'm a pretty normal person, like pretty, you know, pretty average, but I do think that everyone has a story to tell. Um tenderhearted I don't think my story is special, but I in that I'm you let me let me start that over. I think that everyone has a a special story to tell, and so I'm not in unique in that I get to be here. I think anyone could be in this seat and share something really meaningful. Um, but I'm just grateful to be able to share in this experience with you. I um I yeah, I think life is really interesting and brings so many paths that we're not um necessarily prepared for or expect, but what a joy to like experience it all and um find meaning in in the things that you don't expect, you know, that are that come your way. So um yeah, grateful to be able to share a little of that with you.
SPEAKER_07You are such a tender heart. I love that about you. Thanks. Be so sweet about that. So, Heather, let's maybe start with I guess one of your biggest, I don't know if you want to call it the biggest, but you know, when we speak of initiations, which I used to always call them like trials or and I guess I just have kind of changed my um my thoughts behind what these life experiences really are. And when we can look at them more as like initiations into deeper parts of ourselves and experiences that are helping us like return back to ourselves, it feels a little bit more not so like difficult. And I don't want to take away from the difficulty of people's experiences, but if we could look at them through that lens of what is this teaching me and how is this helping my soul expand? Feels a little bit more um gentle when you approach it that way. Yeah. But you went through an experience in your early 20s, um, a divorce that um was difficult to, I know for you, it was difficult to watch you experience. Um, and I, you know, the questions that I've wanting to ask you about this, I'm like, I can't believe I haven't really even thought to ask her some of these questions before. It was such a it just didn't last very long, and it just seemed so, I don't know, just so I'm excited to hear more of your thoughts and feelings about this. But you kind of wanted to start telling us a little bit more about what that experience was like for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's interesting because now I have over 20 years of hindsight, you know, and so in a lot of ways it feels like just like such a small blip in my story. Um, even though though at the time it was devastating, it was so much grief. Um I guess it just it feels nice to be so much on the other side of it, so many years down the road, and um and and recognize how much more life had to offer me post-divorce, right? Like sometimes I think when when you're in the midst of something so hard, it just feels like you you can't see to the other side of it. But um, it's nice to be so far on the other side, you know. But yeah, I was we got married when I was 25, and it was very, very short. Um, I mean, once the divorce was final, it wasn't even a year that we had been married, and and with things really ended after about five months. So it was kind of an unusual situation. Um and and certainly not expected. Um and we were living in Texas at the time we were married, and so when it ended, I moved back home for the summer to live with my family in Utah. And um, I think that that is one of the best gifts I gave to myself was just being able to completely leave everything that would have reminded me of him, you know, and come back home and feel the love and support of my family. And um, yeah, I um I oh sorry, go ahead. No, I didn't want to I was just gonna say it there was so much grief, but there was also I think some confusion about like this is weird, you know, like why why why is this, you know, come like why is this part like why did that marriage even have to happen to end so quickly? You know, there's so there was some confusion. I can see now why, like all the gifts that came from it, but in the middle of it, I think the the two biggest things I felt were grief and confusion.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Why what was the hardest part about that experience that you don't think people really saw?
SPEAKER_03You know, I think um when you are recovering from a divorce, I think a lot what a lot of people don't see is how you have to rebuild your life again, how you have to figure out what now, like what are my next steps? Is I I had one plan and now I have to come up with a completely new plan for my life, you know. And a lot of people don't see that, the the behind the scenes like stress and like questioning what now. Um and thankfully, like I said, I had that, I had a summer at home where I felt all of the support from you know our family to be able to figure it out. Um but yeah, they're you know, just like reorienting again is is really can be really uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and that's a lot to go through the matter of one year, Heather. Yeah. Getting married. Yeah. So the whole engagement process and then getting married, adjusting to being married to somebody, and then having that come to an end, and then back to, well, what do I do now? That's a lot for your body to be able to migrate at that time. Um, what do you think that experience ingrained in you about like your sense of safety in love? Did it affect that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, I I did have a lot of people ask me, like, are you does it make you afraid again to be in a relationship or get married again? And maybe from the outside in, it looked that way because I was single for a lot of years after that. But I think in reality, I actually felt a little more resilient. And I and I kind of had this feeling of like, well, I got through that. So it it actually made me, I think, less afraid of finding love again and and being married again because yeah, it just it built like some just some resilience in me that made me feel like yeah, thing relationships are hard and and heartache happens, but I I got through it and I did okay, you know.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's really impressive. And I remember being so impressed with you at that time because not long after we were somewhere at a funeral or somebody's wedding. And I remember one of our cousins asking you about your experience and what you were going through. And and I remember you communicating to her something to the effect of marriage is great. Like, I found a lot of meaning in it while I was able to be married. And this is what I speak to of Heather. Like, she just she never says complains and like is gets fired up about a lot of stuff. She's always gives very groundless, like meaningful responses. I just feel like that's how you've always lived your whole life. Um, so Heather, what do you think that divorce taught you as you like moved into your next phase of life? And what did you take with you from that experience to help you navigate moving forward? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I think kind of just what I what I said is that just inner strength. Um there's something, and this is this is one of the reasons I think that I love nature so much, is that there's something that just feels so raw and kind of gritty about being in nature, especially when you're like deep in deep in nature, you know, like really away from the world. It just feels so real. And I think that's a lot of a lot of times how it feels coming out of something hard is like, oh, I just met parts of myself that were very real.
SPEAKER_04And that's really beautiful.
SPEAKER_03It's raw. It's really it just teaches you so much about yourself, you know, and so I do feel like I was able to take that with me moving forward, like those you know, deepest moments of heartache. I was able to transform into like, yeah, just this a realness that you know that can only come through those kinds of experience, I think. Experiences, yeah.
SPEAKER_07So beautiful Heather. Such a beautiful way to voice that. What do you feel like you learned from him and why do you feel like he was meant to be in your life time period?
SPEAKER_03You know, when when I was in my when we were dating, I really struggled with severe anxiety in my early 20s. And um, and when we were dating, that was a really big part of our relationship, just managing that. And he was so supportive, you know, he was such a friend, and um I think saw me through some like really hard, hard times just trying to figure out how to manage that, and so yeah, I think we've had no contact since I moved home, which I think has been really healthy. It just has helped me move on, but I've often thought like if I were ever to run into him, it would feel like seeing an old friend, you know. I probably want to express some gratitude for just his stability during that time, you know.
SPEAKER_06That's so sweet, Heather.
SPEAKER_07That's such an amazing way to look at the meaning of of experiences. And what was what was I able to take from that, what was I able to learn from that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Instead of moving on with bitterness and being a victim with some had every right to be. But you handled it with so much grace and dignity and thank you. So I thank you for that. It was really um all your initiations in life that I've experienced and been a witness to you journeying through. Um it has left me with a better sense of of um just being able to navigate these situations with more grace and dignity. And so I thank you so much for that, Heather. Thanks for saying that. Um so let's move on after you divorced. How long were you single after that? For 15 years. What was what was that like for you? And you know, you also we grew up Mormon. And you know, being married is a huge part of the teachings of the church. It's integral to it. Yeah. Like after you graduate high school, you go on a mission, you go to college, and then you get married. It's the next step in like the ladder of the things that you're supposed to do.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So I'm hopeful that you'll speak a little bit to like what that was like for you living being a member of the church and being single for so long, and how you kind of made sense of that and yeah, just your the experience in itself of what that was like for you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, so much, so much to navigate um within the culture that we lived in for sure. And it's not that I felt um like I was, I think I did a pretty good job of not making it mean something about me, like that I was doing something wrong or wasn't worthy. I I I really tried to stay away from those kinds of stories. I think what was the most difficult is that I didn't have a lot of examples around me of how to navigate life as a single woman who was Mormon. Um, in a way that felt like really fulfilling and Not like you're just waiting around, you know? Yeah. I didn't have I there just were not a lot of examples that I could look to, really. Um so um while my timeline was so different from a lot of people around me, it also felt like um it it also just felt like this feels like a really important part of my story, like figuring this out, how to navigate these years in a way that's true to me and um and doesn't leave me feeling like I've done something wrong. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah. What's that season of life give you that you wouldn't trade anything for?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I think the biggest thing I learned is that my fulfillment is up to me. And it's not based on if I get married, like I just knew that if I if I can't find joy right now as a single person, then how am I gonna be joyful in a marriage? Right, like I can't really I can't have that be the um like the thing that I just keep hoping for that's gonna fulfill me in the end, you know, like I have to find fulfillment now as a single person. And I feel like I did a pretty good job, and not that there weren't times of loneliness and um and confusion about like, you know, what am I doing now? And you know, there's a lot of just figuring out the next steps. Um but I really, I really tried to just live a fulfilling life regardless, you know, with even though my the culture around me was very family oriented. But I also think I I mean I spent a lot of time nurturing nieces and nephews, and especially your kids, which was like one of the biggest gifts is that time with nieces and nephews, like being an aunt is still one of my favorite things. So um what a what a gift to like nurture in so many ways, you know, even though I was single.
SPEAKER_07So it was such a gift, Heather. You were a second mom to my kids for quite some time. You were you were there in the delivery room when Shaden was born. Yeah. And helpy. Yeah, so much when Brandon and I were both going to college full-time, both working, and had this little baby. And you know, it's a time where it's like you don't just want to turn your baby over to anyone. Yeah. And you were there living in Mogan and would come over every morning and watch Shaden for me while I went to school. And I've just been I I have lucked out the most in the sister department because my sister, my older sisters have always been available to help me, but especially you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for whatever reason, we always I always lived like in close proximity to you for a lot of years. Even when you were on the East Coast, I was on the East Coast for a while. So we I can still spend time with you, and then we both moved to southern Utah at the same time. I consider it a huge gift too. Like huge.
SPEAKER_06Such a blessing to my family.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_06Like I still I just thank you so much to this day.
SPEAKER_07Being available and just helping me so much with my kids as a young mom and Brandon being got on a lot with school and and work. I just really I've always needed you during likewise, but um, yeah, I remember when you were living in Washington, DC, and they had three little kids. And I was like, I no, New York. Was it New York or Washington, D.C.?
SPEAKER_03I did I lived in both places.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And I was homeschooling my kids and I was like, I'm just gonna drive it to Washington, DC today.
SPEAKER_03And um I just saw those pictures the other day when we went we went and visited some museums together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's so much fun. Well, I had friends when we were living there, they're like, wait, you're driving by yourself up to Block DCs and dude, all the what are they called? The Smithsonian's uh and I was like, Yeah, I'll be fine. Like my sister lives there, but think thank God you were there because navigating like the subway and all those things, just three little kids, there's no way.
SPEAKER_03But I can barely figure it out. But yeah, we those are good memories. It was so fun. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07And then yeah, we both moved back to southern Utah at the same time. And as we were building our lives after just graduating, after Bradden just got done with his ortho residency, we all whibbed. We moved back in with mom and dad. So it was you, my family, mom and dad for a time before they left on their mission. We were figuring it out, uh figuring out our lives.
SPEAKER_06But that was so fun. Such a special time.
SPEAKER_07And I guess my kids talk about like experiences and memories at that time having sleepovers with Aunt Heather, and you really helped ingrain in them at that time a love for nature that um is still a part of them today. So I thank you so much for that, Heather. Thank you too. So, overall, Heather, what do you think was your biggest takeaway from your years of being single? And what what what was that initiation like for you as then you stepped into getting married?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Again. Biggest takeaway, um, you know, I think that as humans, we're really attached to timing. And we also create stories about why our timing is not what we think it should be. And I think our stories is what makes the waiting so difficult. That's so true. Yeah, and so I think I really, really learned in that time to let go of stories and just trust that just learning how to like embrace each day without worrying so much about when is the next thing going to happen. And not that I'm perfect at that, because I'm human, you know, and and we were very attached to time, like I said, but I think I've learned more and more all the time, like let go of my stories about it and just embrace each day.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. That's so beautiful, Heather. Thank you. So then you met Jim. How old were you when we met Jim?
SPEAKER_03I was 39. 39. Well, we met, I was probably about 37 when we met, and we kind of missed each other for about three years, where he was interested in me and I wasn't ready, and then I was interested in him, and he was dating someone. So, but when we officially started dating, I was 39. And then um, you guys have the most unique wedding day story.
SPEAKER_08Tell us what day is like the most awesome story.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we were planning a little ceremony at the park, and that morning Jim and I had gone to get wedding photos at the park, and when we got back, Andrew, our brother-in-law, came out of the house just kind of packed, and he was like, Your mom just fell in the shower and the ambulance is on the way.
SPEAKER_04Poor mom.
SPEAKER_03So we go in, mom is just in excruciating pain. It was her hip. We didn't know at that point, but she had broken her hip getting out of the shower. And um, so they, you know, dad gets in the ambulance with her, they take her to the hospital. So we're like, what do we do? You know, like I don't want to get married without my parents there. But we had all these people who were gonna be arriving in the next like couple hours. So we, anyways, long story short, we ended up getting married at the hospital. Like we had a friend who was able to arrange that. We just messaged all our guests, said, meet at the hospital. It was so awesome. Very memorable, very memorable. They willed a mom out in her bed. She was like hobbled up on morphine.
unknownMorphine.
SPEAKER_03And dad had on his because yeah, dad had on like a carhart t-shirt. We put a boot in ear on him. He walked me down the sidewalk at the hospital. Oh man. It was so very, like, very telling of like what marriage would be, you know. Very like, what are we doing? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_06It was so awesome.
SPEAKER_07And every time since I've like had to go to the hospital to my kids as doctors, there will kid the hospital. I'm like, that's where there was me. Because the kids weren't there, but we had a beautiful reception and parade after for sure. Um, I think the hardest part of that day was for mom and dad. Yeah, to not be there. Yeah, but I think that's why like that just speaks so much to you and the love that you have in your heart for other people that you could have just canceled it and said, no, I want this amazing, perfect wedding day. You know, or just went ahead and got buried at this place that you guys had arranged without mom and dad because just you know, about your relationship with mom and dad and of course wanting them there for sure. Just made us who cares?
SPEAKER_08I love that about you.
SPEAKER_07So then you become a stepmom. Yeah. Let's just briefly touch on right away for you. Yeah. Stepmom, three kids. But everybody had a lot of, like I said, you were a second mom to my kid. So, but I know this is completely different.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, three, three kids. They were 15, 13, and 7 when we got married. And um our 13-year-old son actually ended up living with us full time after we got married. So, yeah, a mom immediately. And um yeah, what an adjustment. It's, you know, I think the thing about step parenting that I was not prepared for. And I really don't think enough people talk about the role of step parents. And I know everyone's situation is so unique, and maybe that's why. But I think the role of a step parent is so nebulous because you're you're not a mom. They have a mom. You're not even really like an auntie, you know, because you're not even blood related, but you are an adult in their life that has influence. But I just think figuring out where exactly do you fit in, it's it's just really nebulous, you know. And it took a long time to kind of work through that and try to figure out how do I fit into this equation. But luckily, I have my my stepkids are just incredible. They're they were so accepting and love loving from the very beginning. Um, their mom is is been very amiable, and I know a lot of people do not have that same same gift as we have. So I'm really grateful that it's been as smooth as it has, you know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and you're right, like you don't really hear a lot of people talking. I don't know if there's any podcasts available or like how to navigate that, but that can be hard. It is. And um, so I think you make a really good point there about finding support in your in that space.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And how are you now talking to other people who are navigating similar experiences? I think would be so helpful for people in that space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I had some stepmom friends, other stepmom friends when I got married who were also newly married, and it was like, oh, it was such a relief to be able to talk and share our experiences. And and I think they felt the same way. It's like just it's just how do we where do we fit in? Like, how do we navigate this? And yeah, it can be really tricky, but um I got I got super lucky. I love them, I adore them. They are such cute, good kids.
SPEAKER_07They are, and they became a part of all of our lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fun. Yeah. So then, Heather, you become your own mama. When yes, this is also I'll never forget the name before this you were pregnant. This the best day. How old were you?
SPEAKER_0642.
SPEAKER_0742, having I got our first baby. Yeah, what was that like?
SPEAKER_04What a gift.
SPEAKER_03You know, I think I had I'd kind of reached a point where I I'd I'd kind of just become comfortable with the idea that this might not happen for me. And I actually was okay. I was actually like fairly okay with that. Um, you know, as soon as I got married, people started asking, are you gonna are you gonna have kids? Too, especially mom and dad. When I say people, I mean mom and dad. Um but uh I I knew that I would have it would have to feel like the right timing because it was a huge adjustment to be a stepmom. And I I I really needed a couple of years to adjust to that. And then I yeah, I just felt intuitively like very strongly there's a little boy coming to our family, and um yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm so glad I didn't miss out on that opportunity.
SPEAKER_06He's so special. So special. He's so special here almost six years old now.
SPEAKER_07I can't believe it. Yeah. So like you were able to bring to motherhood in your 40s that you don't think you would have been able to in your 20s.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, I think there's um there's give and take because I didn't, you know, I didn't come to it with like the energy I would have had in my 20s. But I came to it definitely, I think, way more subtle in who I was. Um yeah, I think way less overwhelmed than I probably would have had in my 20s. Not that it wasn't hard. I mean, you know, right having an infant and newborn is a lot of work and a lot lack of sleep. But um yeah, I think just just that feeling of being really settled in who I am and what my values are, and um I think and my husband says this too because he had the experience of both, you know, being a young dad and an older dad. And yeah, he talks about all the time how just how just more settled he feels, less stressed about a lot of things, just feels a lot more ease because of the age. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. What what would you want Wilder to know about the woman you were before he came into your world?
SPEAKER_03I would want you to know that. I did my best to live a to live a fulfilling life and to live a life of me. Um that when he came along. That just expanded in ways that I didn't even know were possible.
SPEAKER_07And so fun watching you be a mom have you know you've always loved my kids and your other nieces and nephews so much. But being able to see you experience motherhood has been such a joy and a gift that I feel that we've all just have loved watching you experience and Heather had a home birth, which we won't go into much detail now. That could be a whole podcast epic of itself. But let's just say we were all up all through the night on the phone with mom as she was crying over the phone, watching you be in so much pain. And it would probably the most badass thing I've ever seen you do. But seriously, Heather, that was that was incredible. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Like you doing that I just marry you so much. You know, in the midst of it, I remember, I remember saying, speaking out loud to the midwife, everyone in the room, I was like, I'm gonna need some therapy when this is done because psychologically I'm not sure how I'm handling this, you know?
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_03But once he arrived, it was like, I mean, I think all moms feel this way. It's just like, oh, I would do that again in a moment. Like, yeah, um, there's so much, yeah, like it just felt like worth every, you know, 12, like 12 hours of hard labor and pushing. Yeah. It's amazing. Women's bodies are amazing.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, for sure. Um there's so much we can talk about, but um, I want to get into like some other topics that um I feel like I just the energy behind it, I feel like I want to bring to this space. Okay. Um Heather and I both went through what we call a spiritual awakening together. Like I voiced and you know, if you listen to this podcast, you know that we both grow up grew up in the Mormon faith tradition. And it was right around the same time where we both started having questions and feeling the pull to experience other realms of spirituality. Yeah. And um again, just so incredibly grateful for each other. Yeah. Um, because it was so, so difficult to navigate. And just having somebody that I fully trusted that was so safe and that would never judge or um shame or um try to talk me out of anything, was just there to listen, was just such a gift from God to be able to have that that time. But I'm wondering like what that process was like for you and when did you start? Because I feel like you've always had this other part of spirituality that I think for a long time our family couldn't quite understand. Not I fully get it, but I feel like you've always explored other um other ways of practicing spirituality. At the time, I don't think any of us looked at it as spiritual practices, but like I said, no, it fully are. So when did you start first feeling that in your life? Quick pause before we continue. One of the biggest things I see is that people try to change their lives from the mind. But the nervous system is what actually determines what feels safe, possible, and sustainable. That's why I created my Somatic Repatterning Audios. They're short, guided practices designed to help your body release old survival loops and create new patterns through sensation and embodied awareness. If you're ready to move from insight into real integration, you can access the audio library through the link in the show notes. All right, let's continue.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I um like I mentioned, when I was in my early 20s, I had some pretty severe anxiety that I I did not know how to navigate. And it was like no matter how much I prayed or tried to do the right things, like that wasn't the answer. And and so that's something I had to reconcile like really early on that um that I couldn't, there's just some things that I it felt like the relationship that I had with God wasn't like I I just had to like kind of reorient myself a lot because of what I was experiencing with anxiety. And um I did end up like going on medication for a little bit, which which actually helped a lot, but I could but I just knew like this isn't fixing the problem, like this is just a band aid and. And I want to like get at the root of what's going on with my anxiety, you know. So I really started looking at a lot of alternative healing methods and you know, trying different things like meditation and a lot of thought work. Um and I think, and I always I I've I've had a really strong connection to nature since I was really young. And so that combined with like just me looking at other healing modalities, like I just kind of came up became a little crunchy, I guess. Like I was kind of the hip, you know, I just became kind of like a a little bit of a hippie, and that that kind of was my my world moving forward is like I really cared about natural ways of doing things, of approaching health. Um, and and so yeah, I did develop some spiritual practices that felt really connecting to me. Um and so I think I ended up in the church. Um I think another thing that's just kind of about my personality is that I just I love new ideas. Like I've always just loved learning. I've loved like just new ideas. And so I think um in the church I ended up just feeling pretty nuanced, I guess, as far as my experience in the church. Like um, when things didn't sit right with me, I kind of could compartmentalize somehow, like, okay, I'll take these good parts that fit that like feel good, and these other things that don't make sense, like I'm just gonna like set them aside or just it's okay that I don't leave, you know. I just and so um yeah, I think I ended up being that way in the church for a long time, and then my spiritual practices were were all things that I didn't necessarily learn in the church, um, but they really kept me grounded and um really like made my spiritual life more robust. And so I think because of that, I actually think that helped me stay in the church a little longer, honestly, because I had a foundation outside of it that was really um fulfilling, I guess. So, but yeah, when you and I I remember before, because I used to live in southern Utah and right before we moved, you and I went around on a really long walk. I don't know if you remember this. And we kind of that's when we kind of both revealed to each other, like, here's the questions that we have. And it was such a relief to me to have someone that I love so dearly, like to relate to these scenes with on, you know, like it was such a relief. I don't know if we felt the same. I had no idea.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I had no idea that you had been having questions or concerns. I thought I was the only one. And I don't even know how it came about, but it did, and I'm so grateful that it did. But it just kind of unfolded from there to about two Marco Polo's a day for like a whole year, yeah. Um and it was like we were ah like I feel like that time when I think about it, it's like we each had this chest, a treasure chest, sitting next to each of us. And we'd open up that chest and pull something out and take a look at it. And some of it was really hard. Really hard. And being able to look at that and be like, hey, this is what I'm feeling right now about this. Um this is hard. Yeah. What do you how do you feel about this? What do you mean? Or the next day pulling something out of this chest and be like, wow, this is amazing. How do you feel about this? And just being able to have this person to share these experiences with. And it's not because we didn't want to share it with anybody else, it's because we were going through the exact same thing. At the same time, we didn't want to worry anybody else. We hadn't really landed anywhere for sure. So it just kind of felt like, and also for me personally, it felt like I, even though I was like had a safe spurt person, you and Brandon for sure, that I could go to and talk to these things about. It still very much felt like this is an experience I really need to navigate on my own because I've outsourced this my whole life and I need to figure this out for myself. So that was my reasoning for not like going to everybody I knew. Yes. Yeah, you know. But um, yeah, so what what do you feel like, Heather? What do you want people to know about you during that time that you feel maybe misunderstood about? Or do you feel misunderstood? Or what could be some advice that you could offer to somebody who may be going through a faith deconstruction, aka a spiritual expansion?
SPEAKER_03I don't know if a lot of people realize how very disorienting it can feel to go through something like that. And so you're navigating something that's like turning your world upside down, but then a lot of times people who might still be in the church um they see it as just like you're doing something wrong. Even though it's like everything in your body is saying like this is this is the right thing for me. This is the right thing for me to explore, to loosen my grip on some things, to um ask questions, to expand, like everything I think, even even though it's so disorienting, it also felt so right to me and so expansive. Um, but it but yeah, you're like your world is turning upside down. And I don't, I just I don't know that people can people just really fully can unless you're going through it, it's like really hard to understand what that's like. And so you're often on the receiving end of people just thinking you're doing something wrong or you're being deceived or you're lost, and you have to like manage other people's expectations about you on top of like all of this your world turning upside down, you know? Yes, I do. And so um, I think for people who might be going through some kind of deconstruction, make sure you have support, like having you in that process and my husband as well, like that was the greatest gift, the greatest gift. So make sure you have support from people who are going to see you and love you no matter what, you know. Um, and for those who are on the other side who who might not understand what you're experiencing, like um just love, you know, just love and trust people. Trust that people are doing what's best for them. Like spirituality is so personal, and um, and everyone's experience is so unique based on like their history and yeah, I mean, all what what more like we just have to just love each other. Yeah, like we need to. Let's just support each other in like our past because it it's hard enough, you know.
SPEAKER_06Totally. That's really good advice, Heather. What does spirituality mean to you now?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think spirituality for me is I like the word, I guess I like the word connection. Just it's the process of just of feeling connected to something bigger than myself, but also feeling connected to myself, like my higher self. Um, but feeling yeah, just a feeling of connection, I think is like the simplest way that I can define it. And that's a word that I can use to really check in with myself. Like, am I feeling connected to the earth, to my heart, to my family, to something greater than me? Um, that feels really spiritual, you know. If I can answer yes to that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so beautiful. And I resonate with that so much, and I think that's why like learning more about indigenous cultures has felt so aligned with me because their spiritual practices have always been that connection to the earth, connection to their bodies, connection in community. Yeah, and I just can think of no greater definition of spirituality than that.
SPEAKER_04I agree.
SPEAKER_07So beautiful. Thank you for sharing all that. Yeah. And I think only you and I will know the depths that we went to when we were navigating that time. Yeah. Um so speaking of connection, Heather, you've always had this sense of being this love for nature, which has brought about in the physical form this expression through the creation of your nature school that you now run. Um and um Heather and I, over the past year have been writing a book to offer to parents and caregivers. Um, as we've been navigating our own healing and expansion journeys, we both have come to this place of we were just talking about it on our car right over here, that the earth and our bodies are the temples for everything. Healing, expanding, coming to know yourself, finding peace.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And we wanted to, not because we are child therapists, yeah. We're not, and not claiming to be. We are mothers, and we know how important it is for our children to grow up feeling safe with inside of themselves and what that will offer to them for the rest of their lives. And I think right now, like this time frame that we're in in the world, we have a lot of parents healing from a lot of stuff. And so it's like you have parents that are healing but are also trying to raise children at the same time. And this was like one of my offerings that I wanted to be able to provide in this book is not only like as you are trying to teach your own children how to find safety in their own bodies, of also for yourself at this time. Because actually, this the safer you feel inside of your body as a parent, your kids will just naturally feel that and know what that is like themselves. So we wanted to create a book that could combine the two bodies and nature. And we're hoping to release it in April. And we named it Grounded. Actually, Brandon came up with the name perfect. It's perfect. It is. We're over at our house one day. We're talking about like all these things, and I can't remember which one of us said it, but we're like, we should write a book. Yeah. And then Brandon was like, You should call it grounded romance. That's perfect. We just ran with it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm so excited for this book to come out. And it's the book that I wish I would have had when at my um what do you call them? Baby showers. Yeah. Of like, read this, practice this. It would have been so helpful because I think so often as parents, when our kids are experiencing difficult emotions or having outbursts, or like we look at it as like they are making my life difficult instead of looking at they are experiencing disharmony inside their own bodies. And how can I maintain a place of safety within myself so that they feel safer to come back to connection? Because our kids are living nervous systems. Like they just are. They don't have the mental capacity to be able to like make sense of what they're experiencing. They literally just are living based upon their feelings and their sensations, and they're naturally expressing and shaking and moving around and throwing tantrums on the floor because you're trying to regulate. Yeah. Yeah. That's all they're trying. Their bodies are literally just searching for regulation in the only way that those little bodies know how. And oftentimes when our own kids are experiencing difficulty in their own bodies, I think it comes from a couple things. One, they're triggering something in us that we haven't fully metabolized in ourselves. And two, like we're not, uh, we don't have the capacity within side of ourselves to be able to like hold that space for them to be able to come back into connection. So we speak, my portion of the book is speaking a lot to that of in the classroom, because we wanted this to be able to offer to any caregiver parent, educator, any adult who cares basically for their children, to um be able to understand this and practices that they can utilize in their homes and in their classroom. Because children will only learn when they feel safe. They are not gonna learn any other way. And oftentimes when kids were having like meltdowns or they made a mistake and you may be yelling at them, or you know, and then we're trying to teach them something in that moment, it's just it's not gonna land. Not computing. Yeah, it's not gonna compute for sure. Like we have to be able to create an experience where those kids can come back into connection and back into safety. And then that's the time to teach, and that's the time to instruct. And I don't know what it's like to be a teacher. I mean, I I homeschooled my own kids for a little bit. I have some type of an idea, but I have so much respect for school teachers. Our own sister is one Amber. She's amazing, and she's amazing. And I can only understand how difficult that is to be navigate 30 plus bodies in a classroom. It just seems sometimes impossible. And so it's just such such a big job. And so I hope this book will help give them um practices that they can do to not only like ground themselves before they attempt to ground 25 other students, but then what can you do when your student or your child is dysregulated and trying to come back into connection and how to help them do that in a safe way? So beautiful. Yeah. And then your portion of the book. Tell us a little bit more about your portion of the book.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So my portion is um just how to help your kids or the children in your care connect with nature. So each there's 50 lessons, and every lesson has a somatic exercise that helps them connect with their bodies, and and then it kind of flows into a nature lesson that they can then combine. It kind of follows a similar theme of the of the body awareness activity. So um, yeah, it's been fun because I've already been kind of implementing some of it at my own nature school. And um it's really, it's been really beautiful to see the kids how they react, especially to some of the somatic exercises, because they're already used to learning about nature. But I try to, I'm trying to start out every class with a somatic exercise that we do together that you put in the book, and they're they respond so it's like surprising how well they respond, actually, and how much it helps to center them so that they then feel really ready to fully immerse and connect with nature. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_07I'm so happy to hear that. I mean, I know those practices help me so much. And I think what you're speaking to is just their bodies remembering.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like, actually. Is like, oh, they're remembering something deeper within themselves. Yeah. And they're little, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yes, and what a gift to be able to offer kids how to maintain connection with themselves. Because the, you know, there's we have so many things that are constantly pulling kids out of their bodies. Electronics, strings, pressure, perfection, performance. There's just so many uh areas in life that are constantly trying to pull kids out of their bodies. And it is our work, I feel, as caregivers and parents, as teachers, is to help them stay inside of a body. And I can't remember who else I was talking to the other day, but they're like, maybe it was you. I can't remember that they were like, listen, I learned about the 13 colonies growing up, but I never learned how to be in a body. I know. Yeah. How to maintain connection with myself, what to do when I'm dysregulated. And what does that actually mean?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Because I think, you know, kids internalize everything. And I when kids start experiencing difficult emotions or anxiety or they automatically go to there's something wrong with me. Yeah. And that brings more shame, which that brings more dysregulation. Instead of, no, there's actually nothing wrong with you. Your body's doing exactly what it was created to do. And just being able to teach the science to kids behind their bodies and their body system, especially the nervous systems and what the job of the nervous system is to do can already like bring some settlement to their bodies of understanding, oh, there's that, there's like I'm okay. I'm good. I'm not broken. Yeah. My body's actually doing exactly what it was created to do.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And what can I do to help like shift out of this state and come back into connection?
SPEAKER_03You know? We're so lucky that we have the language now to understand these things. We have people like you, like experts like you, who can help parents utilize this language because it's not our par our parents didn't have this understanding. Right. It just, I think in a lot of ways, experts are coming forward to meet the challenges of our time because kids are are so I don't know if they're more dysregulated, but there are a lot more distractions pulling kids out of their body, maybe there were when we were kids. Um, not I mean, obviously we could we still could have benefited from it. Yeah. But it's just, I'm so grateful for like for what we have available to us now as parents to help our kids navigate a lot, a lot of overstimulation.
SPEAKER_07Yes, like the perfect timing for it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So this book is like an offering, like a deep deep offering for me. And you coming from such a place of of love and of just wanting so deeply for the kids in this generation to grow up, knowing that they are already whole.
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_07And that their bodies should be the safest place in the world for them to be. And that is my daily prayer. Yeah. And I dedicated my portion of that book to my future grandbabies. Because I just want that for them so, so much to always feel at home and safe with inside of their own little bodies.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And the nature part, you know, you were saying on the way here that nature was our first regulator. The original regulator.
SPEAKER_03Nature was their life. Yeah. We didn't have to have yeah, these conversations about how to help people connect with nature because it was just what they it's just what they did.
SPEAKER_07Well, that's how they organized their whole entire life. Was based upon their body, the instincts in their body, and the signs of nature and the rhythm of nature, the cycles of nature. And now because of so much chaos, it's like, okay, we need to return back to those original regulators. I hope that helped her. I don't believe that the earth is coming to an end. I don't think so. That the earth is we're in the stages of a new earth being created. And that feels so much more lovely to be a part of than thinking of like doomsday and failure and it's coming to an end. Um, and so I hope that we both hope that these this book is will be so helpful to caregivers and teachers that if they implement these practices that it will help these kids throughout the journey of their life be able to find a center within side of themselves. Yeah. And Heather is also the author of two other books that I'll put we'll put a link in the show notes for these books. Moonlit Learning is your most recent release, Lunar Year Adventures for Kids with stories, and it's so adorable. And you also are creating a podcast related to this book to where they can listen to these stories online.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they can listen to the stories that go along with each month, but there's also activities and crafts and reflection questions that go along with the theme of the moon. Like, Wolf Moon, Strawberry Moon, Harvest Moon, that follows yeah, throughout the year. I love it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, thank you. And then Own Your Own Rhythm. Yeah. And this is a book about the feminine cycles and the power of feminine cycles. And actually, Heather and I are starting an online course next week teaching women this. You you have joined me in this course, and you'll be teaching a couple sessions about this book, but um just briefly tell us a little bit about own your own rhythm.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so this book is about how the female hormonal cycle in your reproductive years is intrinsically tied to the moon cycle and the different phases of the lunar cycle. So it goes in depth about how to really optimize each phase of your hormonal cycle along with each phase of the lunar cycle. Um, we are so supported. I think especially as women because our nervous systems are more sensitive. I actually think that we we feel the effect of the lunar cycle. Everyone feels the effects of it. I think as females, we feel it more because our nervous systems are more sensitive. And so the lunar cycle is like deeply supportive of us and um and the cycles that we experience, you know, every week, really, when you're in your reproductive years. So that's what it that's what it's about is in depth about those cycles. Deep passion of mine.
SPEAKER_07So helpful. How much I wish I would have had something like this when I started my me too. My cycle. Yeah. I just like it was so annoyed by it. I know, and the gifts and the power and actually the spirituality behind it. Yeah, there's so much. And um, so if you are a woman, I highly recommend this book. If you are a woman that has daughters, yeah, like give them this book, teach them these principles, it will help them so much.
SPEAKER_03My husband also says every man should read it. True. I agree. It really gives you insight into the ups and flows that you know the women in your life are experiencing. Absolutely. It's gonna help you feel less erratic. It will help your partner feel like you're less erratic than you are. Because there'll be an understanding of why it's all happening. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, that's such a good point. Every man should take a class. You should do that. You should start online class just teaching men about them when it's like seriously. I love it. Um, you're so smart, Heather. You're so smart and so grounded and so wise. I know that there's gonna be so many beautiful the whole podcast, I this episode has been so beautiful and so resonant that I know that there's gonna be so many women out there who are going to need to hear what you've had to say today. The experiences that I just haven't had that I don't have um, you know, a lot to say behind. But your unique experiences, like you said, they're not unique, but they have such deep meaning too. And I think the way that you have come out of them with so much grace and dignity and and sacredness on the other side of them is going to be so helpful. Thank you. For women listening. And before we close, I just don't be too like um the Heather has a wild side to her too. And you know, one day she texted me and said, Hey, I just stripped off all my clothes and ran through my farm butt naked underneath the full moon. And I was like, Yes. The wild, the wild feminine coming out in Heather.
SPEAKER_03That has become a whole ritual, yes.
SPEAKER_08Oh, this so much.
SPEAKER_07Heather, I love you so much. I love you too. Instagram. Yes, of course. Is there a if you could leave with anything? Um, before we end, one last message of any of the topics that we've touched on, or just overall the human experience, what that means to you.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, I mean, I I definitely have um I think just the the teacher, the the great teacher about the earth is is like always really forefront of my mind because it's what I'm trying to get my students to connect with every week, you know, and something that I've been thinking about a lot lately is that um when you can really connect with with the earth but also with your your own body, really, really feel like a connection to the earth cycles and seasons. I think there's a really deep sense of belonging there. Because you you start to feel like you're part of something that's much older and larger than you are. The earth is like completely inclusive, there's no judgment. Um like everyone is welcome here, and there's there's just such a sense of belonging, I think, when you can really tap into that. And I feel like that's really a message that I'm trying to portray so much in the books that I've written and then the book with you was like in a world where there's people are feeling so isolated, like you don't need to feel that way when you can really, really connect with the world around you. Like there's such a sense of belonging in the earth, and it it loves you, it cares about you, like it's so supportive of you. And um, yeah, I hope, I hope that's a message I can really get out there. Aho. Aho Love you, love you too.