Clive Davis – The Chief Architect of the Global Soul Blueprint 🏗️💎🎙️

Are you ready for a masterclass in RESILIENCE and REINVENTION? 🚀 In this episode, the Soul Brothers dive deep into the legendary career of the man with the Golden Ear: Clive Davis. 👂✨

From being a Harvard lawyer rejected by "White Shoe" firms 💼 to witnessing the "Soul-Quake" of Janis Joplin at Monterey Pop 🌈🔥, Clive’s journey is the ultimate lesson in pivots. We’re talking about the man who commissioned the Harvard Report to bridge the gap into Black Music 📚🎹, funded the dream of Gamble & Huff  Philly Soul 🔔🎻, and renovated the masterpieces of Aretha Franklin and Dionne Warwick. 👑✨

But wait... we’re getting into THE VOICE. 🎤 Whitney Elizabeth Houston. Learn the story of the "Key Man" clause, the 3 AM listening sessions at the Beverly Hilton 🏨🌙, and how Clive built a billion-dollar house around the most iconic lineage in Soul history. 🏛️💖

If you’re a creator, an artist, or a business-mind in the music game, this is your blueprint for Longevity. 🧱📈

Don't forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and hit that notification bell! 🔔 Video version available on YouTube for all the visual vibes! 📺👀

Are you ready to truly understand the music that moves you? Max & Mello's Architects of Soul goes beyond the hits to explore the journeys of the genre's pioneers. Your hosts, Max and Mello, pull back the curtain on the fight for control, the groundbreaking impact, and the lasting legacy of the artists who shaped Soul & R&B. This is Architects of Soul—where every episode is an experience. Listen now.

#CliveDavis #ArchitectsOfSoul #SoulMusic #WhitneyHouston #ArethaFranklin #MusicBusiness #PhillySoul #MusicProduction #RnB #Legacy #MaxAndMello

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hey, welcome back to the Room Soul Family. This is season two, episode 13 of Max and Mellow's Architects of Soul, and I'm Max Soul.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

And I'm Mellow Soul. We're here to talk about the blueprints, the foundations, and the heavy lifting that goes into the music we love.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

That's right. Today we're talking about a man who didn't start at a piano or a drum kit. He started with a law degree. We're talking about the chief architect himself, Mr. Clive Davis, a man who went to Monterey and then went another way.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Clive's career, this impact had been monumental, but his movement into music was actually the result of resilience.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

That's right, Mello. Actually, he was a practicing lawyer at a small firm after graduating from Harvard Law. His first job was at a small, predominantly Jewish law firm in New York. And the story goes that he was actually rejected from the White Chew elite establishment firms because they didn't think he was the right fit. And this turned out to be a common hurdle for Jewish lawyers in that era.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Aaron Ross Powell Racism shows its ugly head in many ways, Max.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

It sure does, Mellow. It sure does.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

About a year after he joined the firm's primary client, a large business that provided the bulk of their work went through a merger or moved their business, leaving the firm without enough billable work to sustain itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

And since this was a catastrophic blow for a small practice, Mellow, well, the work dried up almost overnight, and the firm was forced to lay off its younger associates. And that included Clive. Oof, that's smart. Well, Soulfam, this was Clive's first lesson in fragility. He realized that even if you have a law degree and the best degree, your foundation is only as strong as the clients that you serve.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

So after being laid off, he landed this much larger and more prestigious firm that was significantly more stable.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

In fact, it was a powerhouse firm where the partners were deeply entrenched in the New York business world. Rosenman, Colin, Kay, Petchik, and Freud. And later on it became Rosamond and Collin, which was the big key. And this is the firm where the architecture of his career truly began, Mellow.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

And this was also a firm with a strong Jewish leadership, but it was far more established. First, there were the powerhouse partners. The Rosenman in the name was Samuel Rosenman, who had been a counsel to presidents FDR and Truman.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

No small feat. And that's definitely a powerhouse partner, right, Mellow? Big time. But there was one of the senior partners, and his name was Ralph Collin, and he was a board member for CBS, which of course owned Columbia Records. Bingoli, hey, bring up your cats to the front for your prize. So now, Mello, because of this architecture link between the law firm and the media giant, Bing Bing Bing, Clive was assigned to handle the legal work for CBS and Columbia Records. How fortunate.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Which brought him a lucky break, because Clive was only there for a few years when the chief counsel of Columbia, Harvey Schein, was promoted to a new role. Schein approached Clive and offered him the job of assistant general counsel at Columbia with the promise that he would become the general counsel or the top lawyer within one year.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Well, for fuck's sake, how do you like that, Mello? So now comes the architectural pivots, old femme, from law to music. So Clive accepted that job in 1960. And he spent the next five years as the chief lawyer for the label doing everything from defending antitrust lawsuits to renegotiating Bob Dylan's contract, which had become void when Dylan turned 21.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

And by the time he was promoted to president of Columbia in 1967, Max, he had spent seven years learning the infrastructure of the business. He knew the contracts, the royalties, and the legal traps. This is why he was so successful. When he saw Janice Joplin at Monterey, he wasn't just hearing a singer, he was calculating exactly how to build a legal and business house around her talent.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

This is a powerful story about resilience, Mellow. Even a Harvard Law grad can get laid off from a small firm through no fault of his own. But Clive did not let the failure of that first small firm define him.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

No, Max, he took the blow and used it as a reason to jump to a firm with a bigger reach.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And seeing that architecture, Mello, Clive Davis realized that to be a game changer, well, you gotta be in the room where the big decisions are made. This taught him early on that in life you gotta see the opportunities and take advantage of them. He didn't choose music, he chose a path that opened up, and then he outworked everyone else to master it.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

And remember how we talk about how teamwork makes the dream work, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Oh, we sure do, Mel.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

This group of lawyers part of the story actually involves Walter Yetnikov, who would later become another legendary and often controversial president of CBS Records.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Oh, yes. Walter and Yetnikov, another amazing name. So Clive and Walter were young associates at Rosamond and Colin together. How do you like that? In fact, they used to commute on the train from Long Island to Manhattan every morning. And they were dreaming of bigger things. Who knows? We all do. And once Clive got the job as a general counsel at Columbia, well, he eventually recruited Walter to join him in the business, and this is an important fact.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, the story has always been that Clive went to Monterey in 1967, wearing a tennis sweater and slacks, the ultimate corporate uniform. He looked out at a sea of flower power and realized he was completely out of touch with where the culture was moving.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

And Janice's performance of Ball and Chain was so raw and soulful that it bypassed Clive's legal brain and hit him right in the gut. He saw the audience's reaction, a total hypnotic fervor, and realized that the era of polished studio pop, which Columbia was known for, was being replaced by authentic, soul-shaking expression.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

No, Max, Clive didn't wait for a committee. No, he certainly did not. He realized right there and then that if he didn't sign her, somebody else would. Right. And Columbia would be a dinosaur. He went backstage on her like a cheap suit, as Johnny Rivers put it, and fought through a messy existing contract to bring her to Columbia.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Oh, he surely did, Melo. But that's the lesson for every artist and executive today. You have to be willing to let the music change you. He saw Janice and had a spiritual shift. But the truth is that Clive didn't just go to Monterey to find himself. He went because Columbia Records was dying. Despite its legendary history with Broadway and Classical, well, the label was barely breaking even.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Clive realized that the old guard at Columbia was out of touch. He didn't have a musical background, but he had a legal and analytical brain. He looked at the data and saw that rock was no longer a fad, it was the economy.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Oh, it surely was. And there was the risk, Mello. Clive knew that signing Janice was a massive legal headache. And she had a messy existing contract with his small label called Mainstream Records.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Clive had to use his lawyering skills to untangle her before he could record her. He realized that being a mogul meant being a fixer as much as an AR.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

And he sure as hell turned into the fixer in the world. Clive famously said that it was only after Monterey through a string of successes that he realized that he had a natural gift he absolutely never knew existed. His epiphany, as it were. And after Janice, he signed Blood, Sweat and Tears, Chicago and Santana. I mean, that wasn't just luck. He noticed that he could hear a hit in a way the musicians couldn't. This gave him the confidence to stop saying, I'm just the lawyer, and start saying, I am the vision.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

It's funny, Max. At Monterey, Clive looked square as hell in his tennis sweater, but he turned that into the greatest strength as an architect because he wasn't a musician. He wasn't precious about the art for art's sake. Yeah, that makes sense. He approached music like a product designer. He looked for structural hook that would make a song a global success.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

And it's actually true that artists like Paul Simon and Bruce Springsteen, well, they initially doubted his musical ears because he's from the law. Right? What would he know? But they stayed because he understood the business of artistic longevity. He knew how to build a structure that protected their talent while making them millionaires. I'd stick around for that too.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Oh, yeah. It's a wild story, Max, because if you look at Clive now, he's this legend with the golden ear.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

He's still, yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Right. But back then, everyone knew he was a lawyer and not from the musician side. And even he was not sure how any of this was going to play out. But play it he would with all the moxie he could muster.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

And Moxie, he did. And that that that's the lesson for every artist and executive today, Soul Fam. You have to be willing to let the music change you. He saw Janice Joplin, and it wasn't just a business signing, it was a spiritual shift. He realized the industry was moving from manufactured pop to raw, authentic expression, the 70s.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah, he saw the soul in Rock before he even got to the RB charts. That moment convinced him to leave the lawyering behind and just trust his gut. He learned that a great executive is the bridge between raw emotion and the public's need for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

And that is the theme for today. How do we, as modern creators, find that bridge? How do we balance the business and the vibe? For that foundation of knowledge, we must remember that Clive Davis didn't just walk into a record label. He built the walls first as a lawyer. And for today's artists, the lesson is don't just focus on the stage. Understand the contract that puts you there. Alright, Soul fam, next we're gonna dig into the Philly connection, the Queen of Soul, and the discovery of the voice. So stick around. So before we dive into more Clive, Columbia, and the sound of Philadelphia, if you like this content, please give a like and subscribe to our channel. And remember, there's a video version available on our YouTube page if you feel like watching instead of just listening.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

That's right. And if you get the chance while you're on our YouTube channel, give a listen to some of our music.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

You're listening to it every time you listen to our show, so give us a listen and check out our new vibe. Okay, Max, let's get into the 70s. You got it, Mel. Columbia Records was winning in rock, but they were struggling in soul. Clive knew he couldn't just corporate his way into black music.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yes, so there was the pivotal moment before Philly's soul blew up for Columbia. Well, soul fam, this is where the lesson of low ego, high teamwork comes in. Man, he didn't try to start his own soul department from scratch. No. Clive, he knew first he wanted and needed to have proof of concept. And for that, well, he had an answer. Sly and the family stone.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

That's right, Max. Before the Philly deal was inked, Clive's pivotal proof of concept for black music at Columbia was Sly Stone.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

And here's where we see the cross-pollination from the architect Mallow. Sly was already on the Epic Columbia roster. Seeing how Sly fused rock, soul, and funk to reach everyone showed Clive that soul music wasn't just a niche market. It was the future of the global pop chart.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

It certainly was, Max. Sly proved that black artists could be album artists, not just singles artists.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Hell yes. This is such an amazing eye-opening story about how Clive entered the world of black music, and it isn't just about a single meeting. It was a calculated corporate renovation fueled by a legendary piece of research known as the Harvard Report.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Pretty wild, Max. The mind of a lawyer at first, I guess. Apparently, Mellow.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I think so, truly. This is all part of Clive's architectural breakdown of moving from rock into the soulful infrastructure of Philly. And for that, the lawyer and businessman used a businessman's tool. How fucking badass is that?

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Yes, Max. He used the Harvard Report. Certainly no Muse would have thought about that. Certainly not me, Mellow. No, probably not me either, Max. I ain't gonna lie. So before Gamble and Huff, Clive knew that Columbia was failing to reach the black audience. So in 1972, he commissioned a study from the Harvard Business School titled A Study of the Soul Music Environment.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah, that's amazing, Mellow. I mean, it's it's teamwork time. Here's the guy that we talked about, like Ed Silvers at Scepter, the architect behind the scenes. And so Clive tasked a guy named Logan Westbrooks.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

The first black music marketing director at CBS, by the way, soul fan.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Damn straight and not the last. Anyway, Clive tasked Logan to work with Harvard to create a blueprint for how a white dominated corporation could ethically and successfully enter the soul market. Wow, that is AI back in the day, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Funny but true, Max. Never thought of it like that, because that was high tech back in the day. It sure shit was. But this report essentially told Clive, don't try to act soulful from the corporate office. Partner with the people who already own the culture. This was the intellectual foundation that led him to look for an external partner, Max.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

And here, like with Ed Silvers or say Jerry Wexler is that pivotal matchmaker, our man Logan. So while Clive had the ear, Logan Westbrooks was the one who truly navigated the path to Philly. Westbrooks understood that Gamble and Huff were heating up with independent hits, but lacked the distribution power to become that global empire.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

He looked at Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff in Philly. He saw the sophisticated, lush, socially conscious sound they were building. I can see the bells going off in Clive Davis's head.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Oh, hell yeah, Mello.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Under Clive's direction, Westbrooks and executives like Jim Tyrrell built the first specialized black music and marketing distribution wing at Columbia. This department was the bridge that made the Philly guys trust a corporate giant like CBS.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

And the relationship with Gamble and Huff here is key, Mello. So Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff weren't looking for a boss. They were looking for an outlet. They had already seen success with their labels Gamble and Neptune, but they were struggling with distribution. That's a big popular problem, too. So now they set up a meeting in late 71, early 72. And Clive met them, and instead of offering to buy their songs, he offered to fund their dream. How badass.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

That is right, Max. Mind-blowing as that must have been at the time. You mean you aren't going to steal my songs, Mr. Davis? Right. So Clive famously funded them $75,000, which Max is a massive sum for a new venture at the time.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Oh, hell yes, Mel. $75,000 for 15 singles and $25,000 per album. Well, this is the architectural investment that allowed them to move into the old Cameo Parkway building and build Philadelphia International Records.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

It's true, Max. Leon Huff later said that Clive was the only executive who truly respected their consistency. Clive called their output a creative rampage.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

He sure did, Mel. And he was happy to be feeding it, I'll bet. He provided the administration and the marketing pipes, and they provided the water, which was the soul, baby. And truly, Clive was convinced that if he backed Gamble and Huff to make cohesive albums like Ship Ahoy, well, the whole world would buy them.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

That's a huge lesson for modern artists. You don't have to do it all yourself, but you have to find partners who respect the foundation.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Way too true, Melon. And because of that deal, hey, we got the OJs, Harold Melbourne in the Blue Notes, and Me and Mrs.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Jones and Billy Paul. It was message music, songs like Ship Ahoy or Love Trade.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Oh, there's a message.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Yeah, it reached the world because Clive provided the infrastructure while Gamble and Huff provided the soul. It's the blueprint for every successful label partnership we see today, from Le Face to Bad Boy.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Which is not so good anymore. But back in the day, yeah, kicking the ass. He knew when to step back, too. He told them, I want the hits, but I want the soul first. He protected their autonomy because he knew that if you lose the Philly and the sound to please the suits, man, you lose the magic.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Coming up, we're talking about the Queen and how Clive handled the greatest voice in the history of the genre.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

That's right, your colamp chilling with Max and Mellow's architects of soul, so stay with us. Now, if you're an artist today, you might think that once you get a certain age or a certain era, your heritage. But Clive Davis, he didn't believe in that. He was boldly going where none had gone before. And Melo, this is the ultimate Phoenix from the Ashes story. I love this. It's about what happens when your foundation is ripped out and you have to build a new skyscraper from scratch.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Sad, but all too often true, Max. Oh, sure is. In May 1973, at the height of his success with Columbia, having just signed Aerosmith and Earthwind and Fire. Mm-hmm. Clive was abruptly fired by CBS.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

That's right, Mello. Clive Davis was accused of using company funds for personal expenses. And specifically, there was a bar mitzvah for his son and some renovations on his apartment. And Clive maintained that he was the victim of a corporate power struggle and that the expenses were a pretext to remove him, which I kind of believe it it pretty much rings true in corporate hierarchy, Mello, but uh I digress.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

So for a year, Clive Davis was the industry outcast. He was under federal investigation during the payola probes of the 70s. Most people thought his career as an architect was over.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

That was their mistake then, Mello, because our man Clive Mann, he didn't fade away. No, he went and wrote a best-selling memoir called Clive Inside the Record Business to set the record straight, and then he looked for a new lot to build on.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Columbia Pictures, Max. Which is there was a separate entity from CBS Columbia Records at the time. They owned a struggling label called Bell Records, and they hired Clive to run it.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, but Clive didn't want to use the old Bell bubble cum pop image mellow. He folded Bell like a towel, put it away, and launched Arista Records in 1974. And Mellow, to prove he still had the year, his first major signing at Aristor was Barry Mallow. And when Mandy hit number one, while the industry realized that Clive didn't need the CBS machine to find hits, he was the machine.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

This is the season two arc for any artist or architect, Max. Clive proved that the talent is the in the person, not in the building. Number one, ownership of vision. When he lost the keys to Columbia, he didn't lose his golden ear, Max. He took his knowledge of the Philly sound and the Harvard Report and applied those lessons to a smaller, hungrier label.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Number two, the boutique architect at Arista. He couldn't outspend the majors, so he had to out AR them out. This is where he became the hands-on legend who picked the songs for Whitney and Aretha. And let me tell you, those listening sessions were monumental and legendary.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

And number three, resilience. He went from a federal investigation to winning label of the year multiple times, Max. So remember, Soul Fam, you might lose your studio, your deal, or your team.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

But if you have the architectural skills, you can build a new house anywhere. Clive's Arista era, signing Dion, Aretha, and Whitney, what a triumvirate. Actually ended up being more influential to soul music than his time at Columbia.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And coincidentally, we just aired Dion Warwick, who actually beat the Queen of Soul to the Arista roster by a year. While Clive was busy building his Arista family, Dion was one of the first major soul legends he brought over to revitalize. Here's the timeline of how they landed the label, but you should check out the Dion Podcast, season two, episode nine, y'all, for her whole story.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Right, Soul Fam. Give it a listener or a watch. It's great info to gather from all these architects of soul. And you see the strings like we always try to connect them. So after her career hit a slump following her departure from Warner Brothers, well, Dion Warwick signed with Arista in late 1978 and released her self-titled album Dion in 1979. This was the album that gave her the massive comeback hits I'll Never Love This Way Again and Deja Vu. Well, Clive had again proven the concept. So now who was next?

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Apparently The Queen of Souls. I guess so. We covered last season in episode six at all. Aretha apparently followed Dion shortly after, since her legendary run at Atlantic Records had come to an end, and Clive signed her in 1980, immediately putting her back in the spotlight with the Aretha album and her iconic appearance in the Blues Brothers.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

What you want, baby? I got it, right? Clyde had again proven the concept. So who was next? That was Clive's strategy. He didn't sign him at the same time. No Mello. He looked for proof of concept as he did at Columbia. He used the Dion Warwick model to prove he could successfully re-architect a classic Soul Diva for the modern era. And once Dion's 1979 comeback won platinum and won two Grammy Soul Fan, well, it became the perfect proof of concept to show Aretha and later the world that Arista was the premier home for soul royalty. So by the time Whitney Houston, whom we'll talk about next segment, but for the moment we'll settle on debuting in 1985. Well, this mellow was because of Dion and her trust in Clyde. And he'd already spent years establishing Arista as the house built by Dion and Aretha. Man, this is a badass story, Mel.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

And what about Aretha's part of the Clyde story?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

What about it, Melo?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Well, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we'll talk Aretha and Whitney.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

That's right, you're chilling with Max and Mel to Architects as well. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

We're back with you.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Right, you are Melo. And to understand why the Queen of Soul was looking for a new home. Well, you gotta look at the massive shift in the musical landscape in the late 70s. It wasn't a lack of talent, it was a total breakdown of the architectural support system that she had at Atlantic Records.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

It wasn't that Atlantic dropped her in a traditional disrespectful sense either, Max. Her contract did expire in 79, and both sides realized that the magic had run out.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yes, and truly for that, Mello, we look no further than our old friend and Master Mason Jerry Wexler. He was the architect behind Aretha's biggest hits, like respect. Well, when he left Atlantic Records in the mid seventies, man, Aretha lost her musical North Star. And without him, man, her albums just became directionless.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

It did, Max. And Atlantic was pretty much flummoxed. Disco was the only thing radio wanted to play.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

That's all they played.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, so Atlantic, naturally missing the reality of the situation, tried to push Aretha into the disco lane with the album La Diva in nineteen seventy nine.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

That's sure shit didn't work. That's pretty tragic.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Yeah, it was not a good album. Not for especially not for her. It was a commercial and critical failure. It didn't sound like Aretha and it didn't sound like disco. It felt like a legendary artist just lost in the shuffle.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Can you imagine being Aretha and listening to the takes of your record in it? You're like, what the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

That was the album that killed Van McCoy, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

The bottom line was that her final albums for Atlantic, well, guess what? They were not selling. And as we all know, in the business of music, if the Queen ain't moving units, the label stops investing in top-tier producers and songwriters, and you know where you end up.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yes, Max. She was effectively being treated as a heritage actor. Ooh, I hate that. Whose best days were in the rearview mirror.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Well, cue up the lights, Mello. Enter the architect Clive Davis. Now, this wasn't just getting lucky. He moved with the precision of a hunter who knew exactly what the industry was missing. And while Atlantic saw a struggling disco artist, fuck that. Clive saw the greatest voice in the world simply lacking a modern blueprint. He believed that if you gave the queen a contemporary beat and a radio ready hook, man, she would dominate again. And she did.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Yeah, that was the ticket, Max. When her contract ended, Clive personally reached out. He didn't just offer a deal, he offered a creative renaissance. He promised her that at Arista, she wouldn't be a legacy act. She would be the centerpiece of the label.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

And coincidentally, which I do not believe in coincidentally, and interestingly, Mello, right as Clive was signing Aretha, her iconic performance in the movie, The Blues Brothers, in 1980, reminded the entire world how powerful and cool that she still was. Clive used that momentum to launch her Arista debut.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

This is a massive lesson for any upcoming RB and soul artist today, Max. Don't fear the pivot. No, I don't fear the pivot. Aretha's move to Arista shows that sometimes you have to leave the house that built you to find one that can sustain you.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

That's right, Melon. Infrastructure matters. A great voice, the soul, needs a modern context, the architecture. And Clive provided bridging in and cross-pollinating the Queen with the modern drum machines and the pop sensibilities that allowed the Queen of Soul to bridge the gap between 1967 and 1985.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

It truly did, Max. Clive and Aretha proved that heritage is a state of mind.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Damn right.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

If you stay curious and partner with people who understand the current market code, you can stay relevant for five decades, not just five years.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

That's right. That's why you can do an old song that was written 30 years ago and make something new. Because that's what it's all about. And Clive, he didn't treat her like a museum piece, but like a contemporary powerhouse. He paired it with Luther Vangros for jump to it. I mean, think about that. The architect bringing in a young visionary to support a legend, and we all know how incredible Luther was. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

It was a renovation. He didn't just change the foundation max. Aretha was always going to have that gospel soul core. Clive was mining a diamond, and to do that, he needed to update the infrastructure. So he brought in synths, drum machines, and Nara and Michael Walden, master drummer, master producer, and more.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Master, master.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Yeah, he's one of my favorites, architects of the period.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Oh, without a doubt. And Clive was relentless, Mallow, truly relentless. There are stories of him sitting in the booth with the Queen herself, giving her notes on phrasing. And most people would be too intimidated to even speak to Aretha that way. But Clive cared about the hook and his ear, it was on target.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Sure was, Max. That led to Freeway of Love and that number one hit with George Michael. I knew you were waiting. The lesson for us today is that soul is timeless, but sound has to evolve.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Right. Remember that soul, fam. Soul is timeless, but sound has to be easy.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

You have to be willing to let a mentor or a partner push you to stay relevant without losing your essence.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Here we go. Teamwork makes the dream work, Mel. Clive Davis proved that with the right vision, a soul legend never becomes an oldies act. They become timeless. Boy, I like the sound of that, Mel. I really do. But now, guess what? It's time to talk about the big one: the voice. Whitney Elizabeth Houston.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

People think Clive just found her, but he saw the DNA. Remember, Soul Fam. Whitney was the daughter of Sissy Houston and the first cousin of Dion Warwick.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Season two, episode nine, y'all. Well, Clive was already working with Dion Arista. He saw the Pop Soul crossover blueprint Dion had built in the 60s.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

And the Dion Warwick connection was the pedigree that made Clive pay attention, Max. It wasn't Dion who physically brought Whitney to Arista or sent Clive to the club.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

And here comes the architect behind the scenes again, Mellow. The man who actually found Whitney for Clive was Jerry Griffin, an AR executive of Clive's at Arista.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

That's right. Jerry had heard a demo of Whitney and liked what he heard. So he went to see her perform at a New York club.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

So Jerry goes to see this young woman with Dion's pedigree and Sissy's lineage, Mellow.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

And she was only 19. As you mentioned, she was singing background for her mother, Sissy Houston. And Max Jerry was so blown away that he ran back to Clive and told him, You have to see this girl. She's the one.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Well, Mello Clive went to the club a few nights later. Just like he did with Janice Joblin and Monterey, man, he had a visceral reaction. He saw Whitney step out from the background to sing two solo songs, The Greatest Love of All, in Home from The Whiz. And Clive famously said that seeing her that night was one of the only times in his life his hair stood on end. I really believe it. She was magnificent to behold, Mello. She came to the Apollo to uh shoot the video for Greatest Love of All. Uh just phenomenal. Absolutely, the way she carried herself, the way she sang, ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Mm-hmm. That's what Clive saw. Because Clive saw the Dion Warwick sophisticated crossover appeal and the Aretha Franklin church power combined in one person.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

I mean, that's some serious, serious chops.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Mm-hmm. And because Clive had already successfully resurrected Dion's career at Aston in 79, and Dion trusted him, well, the Houston family, Sissy and Whitney, trusted him as well. They knew he understood how to handle a classy soul vocalist.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

It's true. And once Whitney was signed, Dion the Godmother, well, she was there. Clive famously had Whitney make one of her first television appearances on the Merv Griffin Show and the show Solid Gold. And it was often introduced by or performing with Dion. So he stuck her right there before it, no matter what. So he used that lineage for marketing Mellow.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Clive marketed Whitney as the next evolution of the Warwick Houston lineage.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Some smart shit.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Yeah, it gave Whitney instant credibility with older Soul fans while she was capturing the youth market.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

And of course she had the voice to do that. So what do we take from this soul fam? That we take that pedigree gets you noticed, but performance gets you signed. Dion's success at Arista built the foundation of trust.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Sissy's background provided the vocal training, but Max, it was Whitney's raw ability to step out of the background that convinced the architect to build a billion-dollar house around her voice.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

That girl was unbelievable. This is a great story about Jerry Griffith too, Mello. The lesson that every architect needs a scout that they trust. You can't be everywhere at once. You have to empower your team to find the greatness so you can build the structure. Here we go with Teamwork Makes the Dream.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Here you go again. Yeah. When Clive saw a 19-year-old Whitney singing Backup or her mom at a New York City club, he must have realized he was looking at the evolutionary peak of that family's history.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Oh, I'm sure. And he curated her. He spent two years finding the right songs. Man, this is the lesson of repertoire. He believed that a voice is only as powerful as the song that it's singing. And those listening sessions, Mel. Well, he'd sit in his bungalow at the Beverly Hilton until 3 a.m. listening to cassettes. And if the artist didn't jump off the couch, it wasn't a hit. He found greatest love of all, and I will always love you through sheer obsessive listening. Those listening sessions were unreal.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Oh yeah. And Clive's using of that Dion connection to validate Whitney, Max, putting them on stage together in the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

It was brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah, Clive Davis showed the world that Whitney wasn't just a new kid. She was royalty. It was a passing of the torch managed by a master architect.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

That's so fucking right, Mel. And let's not forget that when Whitney signed with Arista, she, or rather her team, assisted on a key man clause, which meant that if Clive ever left the company, Whitney had the right to leave too.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

And you know, that came in handy later when the big execs at Sony tried to push Clive out. They had pushed Clive out. They did push him out, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

That's correct.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

And that's when he started J Records and was going to put Whitney on that, but then he but somehow they realized they needed Clive and Arista and put Clive in charge of all of Sony music.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Quite amazing. He had some serious sway, Mellow. It's one of the most famous examples of artist executive loyalty in history. She eventually gave up that right for millions of dollars, but only after her bond with him was unbreakable. The impact of those two as a team was the most profit-minded matchup in music history.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Right. That's some serious sway, Max.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Definitely is, Melo. And before we wrap this up, if you like this content, please give a like and subscribe to our channel and check out the video version on our YouTube page to see the visuals behind these stories.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Right, Max. We would love to know what you think, so please join the conversation. Comment and subscribe, y'all. Please. And remember, if you get a chance, give a listen to our music. You're listening to it every time you hear the show.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

That's right, Melo. Our songs are on our YouTube page with the podcast on all the streaming services. And when we come back, we're gonna put this one on ice. You're coming down through the wire with Max and Mello's architects of soul.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Be right back, y'all. Well, Max, Clive Davis showed us that being an architect of soul means more than just having a good ear. It means being a protector, a curator, a partner.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

100%, Mella. Whether it was Gamlin Huff, Aretha, or Whitney, his lesson to all of us creating music today is simple. Respect the song, protect the artist's DNA, and never be afraid to innovate. Badass Melon.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Certainly was, Max. He bridged the gap between the soul of the artist and the science of the chart.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

That's what we're all trying to do in this new era, Melon, as we try to further our music and expand our souls with the lessons of the greats who have come before us. And as always, we want to close with our final thought and our hope for all of us our art, our craft, and our creations.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Keep that soul fire burning, protect your sound, nurture your creativity, own your voice, and remember the lessons from the giants who came before.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

And yes, protect your masters and seek out wise mentors who can guide you on your journey. And until next, we meet.