Fan Servicing

Tom meets a No Homie in the wild, while Jonathan confronts the challenges of dealing with anger as a parent. The boys later discuss the mental benefits of straight guys letting their gay bros blow them.

Transcript

Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's up? What's up? This is episode six of the No Homo Podcast with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. I'm Tom. We are recording on Monday, July 28th. I have the honor of starting us off today because we're gonna change things up a little bit. Um. Well, why don't you explain why we're gonna change things up, Tom?

Tom: Yeah, I, um, I want to talk about something, uh, I want to talk about what's going on in Gaza. I know we've already talked about that on this podcast. Um, I'm very aware of the fact that that topic is probably not why people are tuning into this podcast. Um, and I, uh, feel. It's important that there's just stuff I wanna get off my chest.

I feel like, um, we have a, a platform. Um, it's not much of a platform, thank you to our, but it exists. Yeah. X number of listeners, listeners that are out there, but I, I, I think 

Jonathan: here's the way that I look at this too, is that in the future, all of this stuff is gonna be. Forever, right? Yeah. Everything we're doing here is gonna be forever.

And so I at least want to be on the side of people who are saying [00:01:00] something Sure. With, with any of this stuff. So this is our chance to say something about it. Sure. 

Tom: Yeah. I, um, I, and I, I wanted to say this now, 'cause you know, I'm, I know we try to be funny in this podcast. I don't yet know if we're successful.

Um, but I don't want to, uh, talk about, um. Carrie and Aiden's breakup, and then go from that into Gaza. Yeah. 

Jonathan: So we're gonna, so we're gonna do Gaza and then talk about Carrie and Aiden's breakup. 

Tom: That's right, that's right. Um, I just, I feel like it's important to get this shit outta the way For sure. It's the most important thing.

Um, I also wanna say, I don't really care if people stop listening to the podcast because of this. If that, if. Bringing this up really bothers you that much. Fuck off. Don't listen to this anymore. Goodbye. Thank you. 

Jonathan: I don't think we have to start. Yeah. I think we can trust that they'll listen or they can fuck off.

I, I don't actually care. 

Tom: I also feel the same way about people in my life at this point. If, if, if what I'm about to say is a problem, I would like you to let me know that so we can move on with our lives separately. Um, I feel, um, really terrified right now. I feel like [00:02:00] what is happening right now is a great.

Unfathomable, unfathomable horror, and I, I. I don't understand what the world is doing, and I think it's time. I think silence is scaring people. Silence is scaring me. Um, the silence from people in my life, from friends and from family is fucking scary. Um, I think. I, I used to be, I'm not someone who really loves when people get political on social media.

Um, and it tends to be, we all know we have these people in our lives. It tends to be the same people posting shit day after day after day, and that's all they post. There's social, you know, social justice warriors online. It's, it's usually bullshit. I think it's usually bullshit. No one's paying attention to you online.

But I think now more than ever, now is the time where you need to post this shit. We, we people need to speak up. I think it's time that people say how they're feeling about this. I think. Those of us that are scared, those of us that are terrified about what's happening, those of us that can't make sense of what's happening, we, [00:03:00] we wanna know that you, you feel the same way too, because the silence is fucking deafening.

And where people are choosing to, what people are choosing to prioritize in their lives right now is also so fucking revealing. And I, for one, just need, I, I need a bone. I need my friends to throw me a bone. I need my family to throw me a bone. I need. The world to start being loud. If you have any sort of a platform, now is the time to use it.

If you have ever thought about calling your representative, now is the time to fucking call your representative. If, if you have ever thought about taking a stance about over something, now is the time to do it because millions of people are starving and it, it, it will, this is the end of the rope right now.

We have to do something. Um. I, I, this, this weekend I called my representatives. It is not hard to do if you've never done it before. Literally Google call, how to call my representatives. A million options will come up that will talk you through it. Um, I called Schumer's office. I left a [00:04:00] message for him. I called Gillibrand's office.

I left a message for her. I wasn't able to leave a ref, uh, message for my house rep, uh, Nidia. Nidia n's. I don't even know her last name. Nella Quez. Her voicemail was full. She really needs to work on that. Ma'am, you need to work on that. You're a representative of the House of Congress and I need to be able to leave you a message when millions of people are starving to death.

So please fix your voicemail. Um, you can believe. Israel has a right to exist and believe that this is wrong. Those two things are not incongruous. If you are ever someone who has believed, uttered the phrase, never again, or heard that phrase, uttered and felt it in your heart, never again is it's happening again.

So now is the time. Uh, I, I feel like we need American Jews to speak up more. More than any other time. We need American Jews who feel like this is wrong to speak up, to let it be heard. That is a power, powerful message that we need to hear. Um, and, and that's what I wanna say about it. My heart is breaking.

I'm terrified. [00:05:00] I, little things like eating dessert, eating a bowl of ice cream, feel so. Fucking incongruous right now. Go to a go. Going to a party feels insane right now. Um, I know we have to live our lives. I know that we all have earned the right to try and find happiness, whoever we have. I, I, I'm cool. I I get that.

I, I agree with that, but we all like, what the fuck are we all doing? That's what I wanna get off my chest. Thank you. I think 

Jonathan: that, uh, and you're not, obviously you're not wrong. Of course you're not wrong. Of course. That is, that is true. I, I think that when you talked about calling representatives, that's a great thing.

I, I, I certainly feel like it a, is insurmountable. Like I don't even know how to do anything. And I feel often, like, to be honest, calling representatives is bullshit. Chuck Schumer fucking shield out to. Trump. Like, I don't even want to, I don't, I It, it makes, it feels so defeated already. Yeah. But you do have to nut up and get past that.

Like, that's the only, I mean, it's like, it's, it's something my parents said to me. It's like, it's something that I say, but I don't always really believe, which is that they work for us. They [00:06:00] represent us, we elected them. They are our employees, 100% our s. We pay their salaries, we put them in office, we decide when they come out of office.

So they work for us. And it feels like, it feels like a dumb thing to do. It feels like it doesn't make a difference. It feels silly. Um, but it's the only way to do. It's what we, that is what we have. That's the weapon we have, is to decide whether or not they stay in office and to let them know if they're going to or not stay in office.

Um, so yeah. Thank you for saying, for bringing that part up. And yeah, it feels sometimes like how do you even do it? It's easy. You Google honestly, it, it's not, that's not even. That's not facetious. You just, you can Google call my representative. I live in bottle blah. Hundred percent and it'll give you the number.

Yeah. Um. And, you know, like I, I have a, a platform on social media too. And this, honestly, this is one that I've stayed away from because, uh, I have, I am married to a Jewish woman. There, there's a lot of excuses for antisemitism that goes with this. But, uh, and, and you know, like. Whatever, social media, any platform or whatever, like, it's, it's really hard to fight everything.

It's hard to fight every [00:07:00] one of the fights, of course. And so I kind of like locked in. I was like, all right, I have the few fights that I'm gonna fight. I'm not gonna get into more fights. I don't, I'm not against the fights, so I'm not gonna get more fights. But I, uh, not only agree with you, but I'm inspired by you.

Like, you know, like it's time. This is the fight to pick. Now this is the fight to be loud about, um, our, our sexual predator president is still our sexual predator president. You know, Elon Musk still exists. Uh, all those things are still there. Whatever, whatever. This is the fight to fight. Now, this is how we help the world.

And really, we don't have a lot of weapons, but being loud in any platform that you have and calling representatives is the platform. That's the way, that's the weapon that we have. 

Tom: Yeah. I I, I, I also think talking with each other, we had a quan and I had a friend Quans, my fiance, um, you know that. But, um, uh, we had a friend in from outta town on Friday.

We went to dinner with him and um, halfway through dinner he brought it up and we didn't talk about it for long. But, um, uh, I just, that simple act of bringing it up and talking about it and [00:08:00] acknowledging that it's shitty and it feels shitty, like, just really fucking meant a lot to me and I didn't realize, like a little part of me is like holding my breath in every single fucking conversation these days.

'cause I don't literally know who people are anymore. I think the events in the world, the events of the past 10 years have started to reveal who people are already, but. This is really fucking revealing who people are. And I, I, I, I think bringing it up with the people in your lives, you're not gonna solve the situation in Gaza at the dinner table with your family, but you should be talking about it at the dinner table with your family.

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: For three minutes. Acknowledge 

Jonathan: it, 

Tom: talk about it. And it was a long 

Jonathan: time. It was, it like, I don't know it, a lot of things do have. Two sides. Some things don't, and it annoys me when we get into, like, when I get into conversations with people who cannot see two sides to things, this one is one that like for a lot of people for a long time was dicey like I.

I don't fucking know Claim to understand the conflict there. It's the, [00:09:00] it's the oldest, it's literally the oldest fight in the history of written word. So like, I, you know, like what do, what do I know about it? And, but what I do know now is that we're at a point where it is egregious. It is, it is, uh, uh, inhumane.

Um, and so there's no more. There is plenty of nuance within the situation, but what happens? It's like, does never 

Tom: again mean never again? Or not? Yeah. Right. Or does it only mean never again for certain people? Right. That's where we're at. It's insane 

Jonathan: genocide. I mean, it's, it's just, it's insane wiping, it's an intentional wipe out of people in the most horrific ways.

Yeah. It's like, it, it it, the idea like, like, um, uh. Well, the, the, the, the food, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Just the, the atrocities going on at the food banks. Uh, and at the, like, that's, that's, uh, the trains. That's like, that's like that is the next version of Yeah. It's just this iteration of what Squid 

Tom: games.

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, of course. You, um, feel so much, uh, for real, uh, and like as a good thing. I think it's one of the things that [00:10:00] draws me to you most. Um, and so I hate to see you upset, but this is a good one to be upset about and this is a good, you know, for the people that listen and I appreciate who stuck around and if you didn't fuck you, even though they're gone now.

But, uh, I appreciate you putting it out there for us, man. Thanks, man. You obviously care and it shows and. It means a lot to me, just being here, being able to be motivated and inspired by it. So thanks for doing that, man. 

Tom: Thanks for letting me get this off my chest to start too. Of course. But now we can move into Carrie and Aiden's breakup.

Spoiler alert. Take take a drink first and then we'll, yeah, 

Jonathan: whoopsies, we should have, yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. So we had episode nine of it 

Jonathan: just like. But anyone who stuck around through Gaza and then left because we spoiled that episode. Fuck you too. We gotta, we're cutting everyone tonight. Fuck you. Fuck you. You're cool.

Fuck you.

Tom: Uh, it feels good. Um, as did the breakup, honestly, the 

Jonathan: breakup felt so good. Oh, yeah. Um. So the, uh, credit where credits do flowers, I think we [00:11:00] should give. There were, and I didn't know this since, I don't know, the original ip Yeah. This, a lot of this was, uh, callbacks to the way that the breakups went. Right.

Yeah. I guess like third time, time she's done this to him. Oof. Yeah. No wonder he's got such mental problems right now. He is. Yeah. Yeah. Lost his mind. And it shows because he acts like a simpleton. Some of the 

Tom: writing was good this episode. 

Jonathan: Right. Uh, so here's my thing with it. Some of the writing was good.

If you look at the scene on its own without, without letting the characters ever have a moment before that scene Uhhuh, like the fights they were having. I, yeah. Like the, the writing of the breakup scene was great. It was great. Totally. If you, if you don't allow for the fact that a week ago she was like, I didn't tell you not to sleep with anyone else.

I didn't tell you I'm not gonna sleep with anyone else. Yeah. All of a sudden they're with a fight. They're in a fight over a guy that like it, it just, nothing. Sitting there on its own watching this scene. It was a good scene. 

Tom: Can, 

Jonathan: well, 

Tom: can I say though, I actually loved that she didn't bring that, the fact that he slept up with, she didn't bring it up.

I loved that she didn't bring it up, but 

Jonathan: literal said, but she literally said, I'm not, I'm going to do that. I'll wait for you, [00:12:00] but I'm not gonna like physically wait for you. Like she, like all of that was on the table. And I, yeah, I mean, the breakup scene was, the breakup scene was, uh, as a, as a standalone scene was a, a great scene.

And so Flowers, great scene. Well, well directed, well acted, 

Tom: well written. Yeah. Yeah. As a, as was the, um, Miranda stuff with the girlfriend. I thought it was really well done, actually. I was impressed. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Um, me too. I, I was having a hard time, but I, I could get to the point where they're just like.

Mature people who don't let that much like she threw away. She threw her, she threw a full glass bottle of gin down the trash ch and then was like, yeah, so what I haven't told you is that I'm alcoholic. And then she was like, well, I have feelings about that and sometimes I like to drink and maybe that's my problem.

And then they were like, okay, we're cool. We're cool. But it was a mature. Yeah, it was great. It was so much mature. Yeah. Relationship. Yes. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yes. 

Tom: I also loved when she said, um, so what I'm hearing is my gin is gone. 

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I thought it worked great. On the other side of it, I was like, oh, maybe she's also a raging alcoholic.

If you, if you listen to it in a slightly different way, but I, that's no fault to them [00:13:00] just for funsies. If you watch it and listen to it in a slightly different way, she's also just a raging alcoholic who's only thinking about her gin and when she can drink next. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, flowers, to them it seemed less bonkers.

Things are going less crazy. Yeah, it feels more like what I expected the show to be all along. I do miss. Uh, sister Rosie O'Donnell. Uh, I, you know, and frankly, I miss Cha. I know you Miss Cha. I really miss Cha, 

Tom: but we did get a little Tay this, this episode. Yeah. Yeah. Which I, I was 

Jonathan: really happy about. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I was a little defensive for Tay. I would, I'm not sure that you've earned the right to this, but. But Big Swing Flowers to you. Great. I would, I 

Tom: would love to see the Music Supervisor's budget and see like what the, the pie chart of the budget for all the music and how much of the pie chart is for Taylor Swift.

It's been all AI music. It was worth it. It was worth it. It's, it's been, 

Jonathan: uh, royalty free AI music up until this, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How was your weekend? Uh, how was your week? My week? Yeah. Well, my week was good. My weekend. Um, all of it was good. I, um, [00:14:00] the listeners and viewers don't know this, but the last couple of weeks I've, uh, bopped back into Queens, into New York to record and edit and get it back out because I've been in Connecticut, uh, doing my favorite.

Summer activity, which is cosplaying as a rich white. Um, my kids have been in summer camp. I've spent a lot of time at country clubs. I've been playing golf poorly. I've been doing all the things that you do Wow. In Connecticut for the summer. It's been lovely. It was, my kids had a great time at the summer camp.

Um, of course on the last day of camp, uh, both my kids were, were, had plans to go to different grandparents. So my wife and I were gonna have the week, uh, kid free this week. And on the last day of camp, my daughter, uh, started showing symptoms of hand, foot and mouth disease. Um. Which is gross. Uh, and, you know, painful for, it's not like, not dangerous, really.

It's just like hurts. It's bumps. And they also, they don't tell you this because I think that it would be, I think it couldn't go in the name because it would be less, it would be, I don't know, more problematic. But there's butt bumps too. There's like a lot of, like, they, I just think hand, foot, butt mouth would be like not great.

Yeah. But [00:15:00] it's so, it's like a lot of bumps that are painful and irritating. And now my. Instead of being kid free, I have a, a, a sad in pain, uh, sick daughter. Um, but she's on the mend. Um-huh And so, you know, my golf game got a little better. My daughter's getting better now. I think it was the most hetero white middle class summer, uh, pretending to be upper middle class summer weak.

I could have had. Wow. What about you? What was your weekend week like? You know the story I'm about to tell, I just wanted to set you up with the most boring fucking white bread, middle, middle of the road, uh, weekend of week that I could tell me about yours now. Yeah, as I mentioned, we 

Tom: had a, we had a friend in from outta town.

We went to dinner with him Friday night. We were in the Lower East side, so we went, uh, after dinner, we were gonna go get a drink. We went to nowhere bar, first gay bar on 14th Street, and then. He had never been to the cock before, which is on the Lower East Side gay bar, famous, legendary gay bar. Um, uh, and so we went to the cock, uh, [00:16:00] and um, we were at the cock and I was standing by myself at one moment and, uh, hold 

Jonathan: on, hold on, hold on.

Uh, were you standing by yourself or were you on a lap by yourself? 

Tom: I, I was standing, I was chilling. Okay. I was, you were chilling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, uh, a a, a very handsome, nice man came up and said, are, are you the guy from the podcast? Which is the first time in my life 

Jonathan: I've 

Tom: ever been recognized.

Well, 

Jonathan: sure. It's five weeks and it's five weeks of you saying you don't like putting yourself out there. You, you're not sure how that feels. Yeah. It's very new to you. 

Tom: And I can, well, so the first time I've been recognized has been in the cock, so. I'll always have, I'll always have the cock. Maybe that's our new tagline.

Yeah. But shout out to Dan from Albuquerque, who's, who's a fan of the Yep. And he, he specifically said, uh, how handsome you were. And he told me to tell you, stop. If you flutter your eyelids fast enough, he thinks you just might float away. [00:17:00] So 

Jonathan: I'm just here. I'm just a conduit. That's wonderful. Oh, well, how did it go with Dan?

Did you guys, did you, did you get to know him? Are you pen pals now? Did you hang out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I might have. I might have had a little moment. A little moment with Dan

Fan service, you know, fan, fan service. Fan service. You? Uh, I think it's fair to say that like right now, you're outranking, wilt Chamberlain, gene Simmons. As far as percentage goes, scoring percentage, you're batting a thousand. Right now, you're a hundred percent and I'm very impressed. Very impressed. I just want my impressed.

Tom: I just want my fans to know that the doors, 

Jonathan: the doors are open. You're a man of the people. You give the people what they want. I just love, I I have been, uh, since we, since we talked about this a few days ago, preparing for this. I have been so excited to put together my weekend and your weekend just closing up shopping Connecticut with a sick child to get home and you just.[00:18:00] 

Guest, uh, fan servicing in at the cup, you know, you know, getting recognized. But, hey man, good for you and you deserve that. You should get recognized. Thanks man. Yeah, thank you. And I will work on fluting. My eyelids. Eyelashes. Eyelids. Sounds kind of weird. Oh no, it was. He said eyelashes. He said eyelashes.

Okay, great. What did I said? Eyelids. He said eyelids. Yeah, that's a little Hannibal Lecter. But 

Tom: he definitely said eyelashes. Albuquerque, 

Jonathan: you did it right. I believe you. Everybody 

Tom: talks 

Jonathan: about your eyelashes please. No one has yet to talk about my eyelids. So, you're right. It's the, it's the eyelashes. I, I had one other thing happen this, this past week that I, I think really fits this moment.

Um, I had a, a, a fan reach out. Oh, also someone said, uh, what about promos? What do you think about promos? Yeah, promos is good. Also, I had one, um, ho ho. Shout out to our, uh, viewer on YouTube who threw out promos. 'cause I like that one. Um, 

Tom: qua had one. I'll text him while you, while you talk. Okay. And tell your 

Jonathan: story.

So a, uh, a no homer slash bromo slash whatever we're about to learn. Um, reached out to say that after the [00:19:00] conversation Tom and I had last week about, uh, and we have many weeks about, uh, you. Flirting with me and how I feel about that, that he, uh, uh, reached out to one of his, uh, gay friends and basically said, Hey, man, uh, just, just wondering like, are you, do you find me attractive?

Uh, and uh, the, the gay friend was like, yeah, man, I think you're super cute. And he said, well, I just wondering, like, what do, do you not feel like you could flirt with me? Like, why would you not say that to me? And the guy was like, well, you're taken, like, you're, you're. Married, and I just like, that's not really on the table.

And, but yeah, I think you're super hot. Like yes, I think you're, you're very cute. And it, it made him feel, the straight guy was saying it made him feel really good. And I think that that is, and frankly it's kind of always been in the back of my mind, is that's the best service we can offer from this podcast and from our platform is, listen, there is a male loneliness epidemic in the country.

Yes, there is a, a, a, a, a void of love from men and to like, not. Whatever. There's a problem with men, with men and love and how they experience it [00:20:00] and how they accept it, and how they give it, and how they show it. And I'm telling you, there would be less of a loneliness issue if you just make some gay friends and let 'em flirt with you.

It's the best you're ever gonna feel. It's the, yeah. Yeah. I mean. 

Tom: We, we, ah, you can feel would better, better what would or 

Jonathan: what would feel better. There are some ways to feel a little better, but yes. And you know what? You know what? If you and your gay friend decide you want to go down that path, that is totally cool too.

And if you don't wanna go down that path with your gay friends as a straight man out there, then take the flirting. Take the compliments, take the gas up, take and know that they'll probably give you a really good blowjob if you want it. 

Tom: That's right. That's right. But I think, I think it's on the straight men to somehow let the gay men that know that it's okay.

Mm-hmm. Because I think sometimes we're scared 

Jonathan: a hundred percent, 

Tom: a hundred percent. 

Jonathan: You know? Absolutely. It's, I, there's something to be said for like, being friends with a gay man is being friends with a man. So if you think about, like, if you're straight and you, you like women and you flirt with women, but also like you wanna be friends with women, you wanna be friends with your friends' wives or you whatever, you know, women.

[00:21:00] And like you, you're not gonna actively. Be making it clear you're trying to fuck 'em all the time, but you might be attracted to them. Well, like it, I don't know why this is some kind of like surprising headline. Gay men are men. They're, they're thinking the same, they're, they're not looking at the same target as you, but they're thinking the same things you are, which is like, it's cool that we can be friends also.

I'd probably Fuck if you gave me the chance. Like Totally. Totally. And so, um. To anyone else out there who is feeling like maybe you could use a compliment, make sure you have some gay friends and ask 'em if they think you're cute. I promise you someone, even if, even if they're lying, they will make the most honest sounding genuine lie then.

And as a man, I think you understand a man's brain. They, they, they probably do it no matter what they, yeah, yeah. And, and report back. Please tell us your stories. Yeah, yeah. Let us know. Please do. Please let us know. Um, yeah, we need more of that. We need, we need, we need audience interaction. And specifically about these.

I think that the, I want to hear from our, oh, did you? [00:22:00] Oh, he hasn't responded yet. We're waiting for Nick on to respond. We're needles. I wanna hear from the bromo slash no Homers. Um. A, about your encounters, whether you're gay with straight friends, whether you're straight with gay friends. I'm interested in how that's going out there.

I think that we can be, um, I mean obviously there, we, we have done it already this episode. There are bigger things to talk to, deal with, and to put out there into the world. I think that in a small way, we could start a wave. Moving through society that is gonna make men feel less lonely by being less homophobic and letting gay dudes float with em sometimes.

Woof, 

Tom: woof. I'm here for it. I would love for that to be my legacy. 

Jonathan: Yeah, right. What if we could be the, we could be the tip of the spear of something beautiful and we're not just the tip of the spear. It exists out there. People have already figured this out, but I'm just saying, we have a platform now.

People, we. We could really heal. We could heal. What's happening right now, bro. I would love to see the tip 

Tom: of your spear. 

Jonathan: Yeah, I, I didn't do that intentionally, but as it went out there, I thought, oh, Jesus.[00:23:00] 

What's on your mind this week, man? Oh, um, well, I guess here's the thing we do, we spend a lot of time, um. Talking about how and when and why we've been angry and we spend a lot, we spend time being angry. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's interesting, and I don't want to spend all this time being angry, but I do think that we, and we've, we've discussed like, let's look at what is behind that look.

Let's look at what's going on with that. My therapist has always said that. Uh, shout out Megan. This might be the first time, six episodes in. Shout out Megan, uh, uh, been with her for eight years. Uh, it has helped me so much also do that guys, get a gay friend and go to therapy. Straight men out there, get a gay friend, go to therapy.

Um, but my therapist has always said, uh, anger is in that in that order. In that order. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. My therapist has always said anger is a secondary emotion, that there's always something behind that. There's something fueling anger. Um, and so I think it's been interesting. In my own life to look at that and to look at what's the primary emotion, what is causing that anger?

And it can be different all the time, but mm-hmm. [00:24:00] Um, kind of like with that in mind, this past week, the, uh, Atlantic, like reposted, I saw a post, I thought it was a new article that was a repost from 2022 called Why is Dad So Mad? And it was kind of this article that was like. Amalgamating, amalgamating. All the reasons that that modern dads have are also ending up stressed and mad and angry.

And it's like there's, part of it is because the goalpost of masculinity keeps moving. You know, part of it is like if we, we are encouraged to, to, uh, do more at the home, uh, when be more, uh, uh. Part of the women are doing more, they're making more money now. Like my wife has been the, the higher breadwinner in our family all along, like a lot of this stuff is, uh, I, you know, I do a lot with my kids because I'm the one that's home.

I work remotely. Um, and, uh, my, you know, it, so all those things like feel, they feel like things to be proud of. And then part of society kinda looks down on them. And then there's times when like, we're still not catching up quick enough. And I think there's valid points to all that and there's valid complaints there.

But it can be like frustrating, you know, to scale as a man to be like. I'm fucking trying to do it differently than [00:25:00] my dad did, and the men that I, that raised me did. And it still feels like I'm falling short and I don't even understand what masculinity is because we're trying to update it. But no one seems to agree on what that even means.

Um. And I, I get that, that's, so this article from three years ago was, was, that was the main point of the article or what I took from it. And then I was kind of thinking more, and I, as a, as a parent for sure, but also just as a dude and as a person, kinda like we were saying about Gaza. Like the world is fucking crazy right now.

And like I understand that it's often always, like, there's a lot of craziness a lot of the time, but it feels like if we're trying to act like you shouldn't be mad right now, like there's just like. W like I, we can't even spend time on what's going on with Epstein right now. We can't even spend time on what's going on with that right now.

We can, like we did, we, Diddy came and went and that like, that, that's, that's, that comes down to like legal jargon, like legal specifics, but still women are being abused and like the Canadian hockey players that just got off. Like, I don't know the details. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to accuse any men of anything, but this is a conversation we have to [00:26:00] have all the time because women are being abused aggressively, rampantly abused, and we're just supposed to like.

Well, well, did she really ask for it? Did was she, was she consenting to all of this? To what degree? And like having to have that fed into my mind makes me bonkers. And the, one of the things that makes me most mad about that is that then that stress carries over into how I raise my kids. And it, like I, my kids see it and I get stressed at work, you know?

And my work stress is a lot of the same things, like when people lie, when people steal, when people don't. Take. Don't hold themselves accountable. Don't take accountability for their mistakes or their choices. Those things make me mad and I carry it. And then I. Consciously think, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make sure not to bring my kids.

I'm gonna change the way that my kids see things. I'm gonna, I'm gonna re, I'm gonna be part of what refocus the world so my kids don't have to deal with that. But the stress that's in me comes out and I'm like, short with my kids, you know? And like this, this week, this past week was something like, really came into [00:27:00] focus for me because my son, uh, who's six, uh, he's learning to ride a bike.

And, um, uh, shadow guardian bikes, by the way. Uh, I needed to say that real quick. Shout out guardian bikes. Thank you for the balance bike and the like, really the, if you have a kid on bike ride, a bike, balance bike's are the way to go. Guardian's a great choice. They're not a responsive, but they hooked up U gc, right?

Did I use that right? You did. You did use it, right? You have to do it that they have to, has to be e theory. Like that. You have to have it in the background. UGC. Um, but this was this week. He moved from a balance bike to a pedal bike. Um, and so he. Was starting to try to do it and he had a couple of like good, good runs and he could do it for a moment.

He was pretty successful at it. That's kind of want, I want to give them a shout if their process works really well. Um, and then he had a day where he was just terrified. Last, I don't know, Wednesday or Thursday, he like. Couldn't do it. The, the, the, it got mixed up in his head and I get it. And uh, like you have to go a little faster on a bike to get the gyroscopic of staying balanced, but going faster is scary if you don't know what you're doing.[00:28:00] 

And so he's like going really slow and wobbling the whole time and he is like getting really upset about it. And he is crying and he is like. Not listening. He's not, he's not able to comprehend what I'm saying. And I'm saying like, if you go a little faster, it's gonna work. And I am, I'm failing at my job of, at my attempt to not, not mirror and match his emotions, but emotion, help him emotionally regulate, giving him a base that he can regulate from.

Um, and I'm not doing that. Instead I'm getting worked up with him and at one point I like stepped away to kinda like take a breath and he's crying. He goes, are you mad at me? And I was like, no, fuck dude. Like, no, I'm not. I hate so much. I hate so much that in that moment when he needed someone, what he thought was happening was that his dad was mad at him and it fucking broke my heart.

And I was thinking like when I was a kid, that's one of the things I remembered. I think that's where some of my anger comes from, like is, is having. It anger modeled around me and [00:29:00] like, see, understand, like I'm trying to figure out where anger was coming from and like how anger was, like, how I interpreted anger from other people and how I presented anger to other people.

And I, I had this like, it was like a huge like whirlwind of shit happening in that one moment of like. A, let's go ahead and cut my parents some slack that I'm not always doing about like when they were angry. Yeah, you get fed up. It's hard. Like it's, there's even at a time when there wasn't the internet and there wasn't Diddy and there wasn't Trump, still there was stresses and there's things, you know, so I'm interpreting things as a five and 6-year-old that are, that are hurting and putting anxiety on me.

And it's just like a, my parents were young. It's like a, it's just a 26-year-old dude trying, you know, and like, uh, and that is one side of it, and the other side is like stressing myself out now and feeling so. I don't know. So disappointed in myself and so worried because like my son saying that in a time of need, and him thinking that I'm angry at him was, I, I hated that.

Tom: [00:30:00] Yeah. 

Jonathan: But, but even, even then, like I hated it. And I tried to fix it in that moment. I was like, I'm so sorry. I'm not angry at you. I just don't always know how to control my emotions. I'm scared for you too. I'm frustrated along with you and I don't know how to show that in a way that makes sense. I am not angry at you.

We kind of talked through it and then. I, you know, I don't wanna sound like I fixed it all because two hours later we were at the pool because there's a backyard pool because of Ocos playing as rich whites in Connecticut. And, uh, he, he just goes like, he goes, dad, you look kind of fat and I don't know where it came from and I, whatever.

And it like, it was a moment that I could help him, uh, uh, learn how, you know, like you don't just say things you see about people 'cause that doesn't always feel good. I could have calmly handled that moment, but frankly, I'm in a time when I don't feel great about myself. Feel kind of outta shape. I mean, I 

Tom: think this is the best you've ever looked.

Jonathan: Oh, we're back to, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. So he's wrong. I wasn't even trying to set you up for that, but thank you. He's wrong. Um, thank you. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Um, and [00:31:00] like those, by the way, I don't want to fat shame, those two things can go together. That there's no reason that you can't carry your own weight.

Well, whatever it is, like I, yeah. Personally don't like the weight that I'm carrying at this moment. My 6-year-old son, there's no reason for him to know that he doesn't have, he should not have an awareness of that at all. I can work on teaching him how to. So 

Tom: did you get angry in 

Jonathan: that 

Tom: moment too? 

Jonathan: Uh, kind of.

I, I, I handled it more as a, a coach and as an educator, but I definitely had like defensiveness to my tone. Mm. To the extent that, like, I watched him react to it, and then I was like, oh, fuck. I did it again like right away. I just like showed my, my poker face was nothing. Yeah. I could not regulate before it came out.

And I was saying the words that were more like, yeah, we don't talk to people like that. It's, it's, there's nothing wrong with a person's body. We just not, you know, don't always, you like, I, what I said was, you're pretty short. I don't tell you you're short all the time. Like, it's okay to be short. It's okay to be tall.

It's okay, your body's your body. But I did it with a fucking shitty tone because it hurt my feelings, you know? Yeah. And so I, later, later [00:32:00] I did say like, Hey bud, hey bud. Uh, you know, when you said that earlier, I, I think that what I said was true. Like, I think we wanna watch out what we said about people's bodies and what we, you know, what we see about a person.

But also I was just being, I'm sorry, I was mean. That was me. I don't, I feel like I'm very strong right now and I don't feel like I can always keep up with you and I want to be in better shape and more whatever, whatever. But I'm really sorry. That I came across like that and he said, dad, can you turn the music back on?

And I said, sure. Man. 

Tom: That's amazing. I mean, I think it's, I mean, we both, we know we both sort of wanted to start the podcast. One of the reasons we both had is we were both feeling so angry. Mm-hmm. Um, I've never felt as angry as I have since last. November since the election. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was getting, I, I've been angry at, um, uh, feeling like I can't talk about what's going on in the world with my family, like getting very clear.

Feedback in different ways that people just don't really want to talk about [00:33:00] it. And I, that's just made me unhinged. Um, and really scared for, uh, you know, my anger is coming from, I've told, I've said this, I think on the last episode, my, a lot of my anger is coming from the fear I have for my two nieces and my nephew about what the world is gonna be.

And so I don't understand why the rest of my family isn't right there with me. Let's talk about it. What are, what are we, what are the problems? Like, what's going on with this world? And, um. I'm confident that they're all, I think, um, on the same page with me about what we wish the world should be. But people just don't want to talk about it.

Everybody just wants to like, uh, keep ev. I don't know. It's like, it's frustrating. So I, this podcast has been an outlet for me to try and get some of this stuff off my chest and also feel like I'm like, I don't know. I hope we're doing something for the world. And I know we don't have like a huge. Fan base, but we're solving male loneliness.

We're solving male loneliness. We're fixing the male loneliness crisis. I just, I just wanna feel like I'm being active and, and, and putting it out there. And, but I was thinking about what you said about, [00:34:00] um, where the anger is coming from and it being underneath another emotion. Um, I'm thinking specifically about two cousins that I have one on either side of my family, one from my mom's side, one from my dad's side, both of whom I really, um, liked both older.

One a girl, one a boy. Um, the boy especially was like my older, cool cousin, like my entire life. Mm-hmm. The one that I like, I looked up to, I emulated, I wanted to be for sure. How many times a year would you like see him? I mean, multiple times a month. Oh, okay. You okay, cool. Yeah, especially when we were growing up.

That changed as we got older. But like, he got me into Star Wars, like I really like. Um, he, he was an important part of my life and, um, and the, and the girl too. I didn't see her as much, but like, I always really liked her. She was really cool growing up. And, um, I found out that they both voted for Trump after the election and I'm, it's something that consumes me with rage.

I think about it all the time. I haven't had conversations with. Either of them, since I found this out. I'm scared to, I'm scared about what I would say. I'm angry about the way they're shitting on both of my grandfathers fought in World [00:35:00] War ii, fought against fascism, fought against, and, and I'm a gay man who is hoping to marry another gay man who happens to be black.

And so I'm angry that they are voting for, um, project 2025. And I, I, yeah. I am at this point. I mean, they're, I don't want them at my wedding. I don't really want to ever see them again. I don't want them in my life. And, uh, I hate how that makes me feel. I hate that I'm saying that out loud. Um, I doubt either of them's gonna listen to this podcast, so, and if they do.

Hey, hey guys. This is how I'm feeling. You fucking assholes. Um, but I heard what you said earlier, and I'm getting angry right now, telling you all this, but I'm realizing that really what's underneath it is like heartbreak. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Um, 

Tom: heartbreak, uh, of, of learning who they are. Um, and not. Ever really thinking that that was the case and, and, um, so I have to try and remember that.

But I guess the thing I want to like pose to both of us is like, what are we doing to address our anger? And um, like what are you [00:36:00] doing? I know for me, um, I want to share, you've heard this already, uh, but I, um. Got trained in transcendental meditation, um, in 2017. So it's been like, it's been a while now. Um, I've gotten lax, uh, obviously, uh, a little bit the last year, uh, which is really stupid.

I'm talking about how angry I am. This is the time I need it more than ever. Um, but, uh, oh, the no homies. That was Nick Klan. No. 

Jonathan: Okay. That was make, that's pretty good. I think it's pretty good. The no homies might it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That might be it. I like that lot, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. Quan.

Nice work, man. 

Tom: Yeah. The no homies. So, um, uh. Yeah, I, uh, got trained in transcendent meditation. Um, it is a form of meditation where you meditate every day. You meditate when you first wake up in the morning. It's supposed to be the first thing you do, and as close to four o'clock as you can, 20 minutes each time.

Um, you get trained in order to get trained in transcendent. Transcendental meditation, you have to go to a place. They're all over the world. Um, there's a couple in New York City, um, and [00:37:00] it's a four day training. And the trainings are like 90 minutes. So it's 90 minutes, four days in a row. Um, and you have to do it four days in a row.

And they basically like teach you how to do it. It's a very easy, they give you a mantra. Uh, I will say that the first day, what is it? I'm just, you can't say it out loud. I've never said it ever since. They've told me. I've never said it out loud. Um, the first day you go, you get. Brought into a room with, um, your teacher, and the teacher assigns you your mantra, and that's the only time that it's said out loud.

Uh, you also have to bring flowers and a piece of fruit, and you lay them down in front of a photograph of the man who started transcendent meditation. That's the kookiest part. I'm not gonna lie. That's kooky. But if that's the kook as it gets, then great. That's the kookiest. It gets great. Um, and then the rest of the time they're just teaching you how to do it, which takes all of like 30 seconds.

I'm about to tell you how to do it. Um, and then you just spend the, and then you go home and you do it, and then you come back the next day and the whole class sits around and everybody asks questions about what happened, how did it go while you did it, and then again, the next day. 'cause there's basically like different things come up and you ask about what happens when this [00:38:00] happens.

But basically you just sit down with your eyes closed and you think the mantra over and over again. Over again in your head for 20 minutes. And what happens is thoughts come in. 'cause that's what happens, that our brains are supposed to do that. Yeah. Um, and you, as soon as you realize that you've stopped thinking the mantra, you calmly go back to the mantra.

You don't get mad at yourself, you just slowly go back to it and it happens over and over and over again. Um, but you do sometimes get to a point where you actually stop thinking about the mantra, but the thoughts go away as well. And it's like you transcend. Mm-hmm. It's, it's blissful. It's. The, I'm about to say something insane, but it's true.

It's the closest thing to an orgasm I've ever felt in my life. That's not an orgasm. Um, and the really amazing part is, uh, what it does to your, what it does to your life. And for me, the number one thing I noticed it does is it gives me. Extra time before I react. Mm-hmm. When something happens that would make me angry.

I have these, these like precious, that they have a name for it, the golden something, or I'm not remembering the name, [00:39:00] but there's a name for this. I'm not the only one who's experienced this kind of thing, but it just gives you this little bit of time to react so you can change your reaction. Um, because that's my problem.

My, like, it happens to me with emails. I get an email that pisses me off and I'm immediately like, bam, bam. Yeah. And if I, yeah. It's like, if I could just say like, take an hour, take some breaths before I respond to an email. So much of my life would've been better. I've, I've text messages, I respond too quickly on the text message.

Yeah. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm no shining example here. I have a lot of work to do, but that's something I'm working on. But I don't know, like, what, what are other things we can do? I 

Jonathan: mean, I think that's, I, I, I. I hate it. This is like, um, and not to just give all my therapists, my therapists all the time in one episode, but like, we talk about this all the time.

Like we, I I kind of, I've kind of just described my, the reason I get angry as, um, uh, I know it's fear, like I know most of it is, is. Fear-based once you get down to it. Like I, you know, I was bullied when I was a kid. I've got whatever, whatever, whatever throughout my life that, like in the formative years, [00:40:00] blah, blah, blah, whatever.

That like, gave me reason to, to not trust people as a whole and to be, have like a residual, like a fear that exists. And I kind of feel like a lot of the time, um, uh, like I'm in the Revenant and I'm just like in the woods and like all of it is like, okay, I'm cool for the moment, but there might be a bear at any moment.

So I'm like always kind of living in a hyper vigilance, ready to fight. In, in a fight of any kind, fight on any level, ready to fight, kind of, kind of stance. And, um, Megan has said like, okay, cool. Yes. Like that is the world that it's, it's hard to not, it's hard to argue that's not what the world can be like.

So let's just like learn how to see that as. We'll build you a little hut and we'll build you a fire and we'll like get you some fur. And we, like, you can, yes, you are alone. The world that we, we can, we have each other. We have our tribe, we have our loved ones. We have, but when at the end of the day, we're alone.

And that can be, uh, a warm thing and not a scary thing. Um, and it doesn't always, like, I can't keep that in mind all the time. Meditation. Helps. I don't, I've never done, uh, never been trained or tried, uh, [00:41:00] transcendental meditation. I just do the regular old, um, you know, um, over the counter meditation and uh, um, uh, when I can remember to do it or what I can, I get like fits in my schedule, you know?

Always. Do you notice that it helps? A hundred percent yes. Yeah. And it's about that thing. It's not about the. I mean, I'm sure it is both. It's not, it's, but for me it's not about the absence of thought that time to rest your brain. It's about learning to forgive yourself every time you have those moments.

Yeah. Every time you, you go away. Okay. You come back. Yeah. Because when I'm meditating, it takes me weeks. Takes me weeks of being in the practice of meditation to get past the point where I'm angry at myself when I, I like, I'll be, you know, now I don't have a word. I don't have a phrase. I don't have a thing, but I'm just like listening to Tamara Levitt on calm, like talk about whatever, whatever.

Yeah. And then we'll take, you know, 45 seconds to, of silence to, to. Be still. Yeah. And just focus on breath and whatever. And then I clearly, I don't, and then I, I go through like, oh, fucking, come on man. I'm such an idiot. Like, let's, let's get back. Come on, get back. Yeah. And then like that is, it's such a process in and of [00:42:00] itself, getting past that part.

Yeah. And that part, whenever I can get to the point that I am okay with myself, when I get lost and I come back, then I, I feel that I am better at that across the board. Yeah. I have that moment of like, I. Okay, I'm, you're gonna back, we're gonna take a moment, even if it's like. Uh, one of the things that I've talked about a lot in, in therapy is, uh, like I don't want to, I don't wanna let people off the hook.

People suck a lot. Yeah. People fuck up a lot. And there, there's misunderstanding. There are people trying their best and it just doesn't, whatever happens, they're also shitty people. Like that exists. Yeah. When I'm not gonna act like there aren't shitty people and she always says, yeah, but feeling better is not for them.

It's for you. It's for, it's for me. And so like, if they deserve, if something, if it's a work thing and they deserve to be told they did it wrong. Great. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: But if you can do that without the cortisol and the Yeah. Yeah. Totally on your body, then it helps everyone. Yeah. You're gonna get your point across better and you're not gonna die so early because it doesn't hurt so much in your body.

Yeah, 

Tom: totally. [00:43:00] There's another school of thought with meditating with the thoughts, which is like, uh, like sitting on a, the side of a river, and your thoughts are just, you see them in the river. So rather than even like letting yourself, instead of forgiving yourself or having the thought, it's more of like, oh look, there's a thought.

And you, and you just watch it float away and then you see the next one and it's, um, so yeah. Different, different strokes. Um, I, I think another thing that could really help with, um, like if that, if sometimes that bear that you're see the bear, the bear, the relevant, relevant bear. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sometimes if you think of it as like a gay bear, that that could give you a blowjob, that can help with anchor as well.

So I just want to plant that seed. 

Jonathan: I'm joking. I'm joking. You're so good at staying on brand. I'm so glad that we have a, we have a brand. Do you what it, 

Tom: do you know what it's time for 

Jonathan: what I do? 

Tom: Who would you fight? Who would you fight? Pow. Pow. I'll go first this time. You 

Jonathan: go first. 

Tom: [00:44:00] Uh, in my, in my, I'm sticking to my usual.

I, obviously, I'm on some sort of crusade. I obviously have a, I have a problem with how people behave online, and I hate social media, but I want everybody to do it differently. You're the most, you're the most 

Jonathan: woke, cranky old man I've ever seen. You're like the hottest, funnest, most woke, cranky old man 

Tom: I've ever seen.

I am. I wanna fight people that use the phrase. It me on social media grown, anybody, grown adults, kids, what? Where did they come from? It's it, and like my, so correct me if I'm wrong, my interpretation is people will post some cute little mem me, me, like a me like a, some sort of like a, it's like a panda and it's the pandas.

Pants fell down at the ocean or some bullshit. And then, and then people will write it me and they'll post it through their stories. Like, why, what? [00:45:00] And these are grown literate. Adults with real jobs in the world. Why are, what is the, where did it come from? Why are people dropping the contraction the rest of the sentence?

Uh, yeah. I don't know. Do you have, can you shed any light on this? No. I mean, if I 

Jonathan: were to take a guess, I think that it makes it sound like a baby. I think baby talk, like people think that it's cute and fun. That can be like a take the pressure off of a thing. So, okay. I 

Tom: can tell that that's part of it. And that's.

Part of what I'm responding to. Sure, sure. Well, listen, I don't like it as, 

Jonathan: as the father of two children who have moved past baby talk. I fucking hate it when my kids talk baby talk, and I really hate it when adults talk, baby talk. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm with you on that. Um, I 

Tom: also like what is what, what, what do you want me to feel as a viewer?

When I see, what do you want me to think about you? I want people to, next time someone goes to do it, I want them to think through honestly what they think it's gonna make someone else else feel. Sure. Because we're not feeling what you think we're feeling. 

Jonathan: None of us are, none of us are feeling that. But listen, if there are any, no homies out there who, uh, [00:46:00] are Ino graphic design on the, got some time to kill it, and they want to make us some art that is, uh, that is no homo branded with a panda whose pants are falling down at the ocean.

I would love to have that art. And we'll write it. Me. Alright. Who would you fight? I wanna fight. I wanna fight whoever at Disney. And I'm pretty sure Disney started it. So from Iker down, whoever did this, whoever started calling the movies live action when they have animals or dragons or. Fucking genies or magic.

It's not fucking live action. Don't call it live. You're just, you're just, you're just exploiting another generation of kids to get the money for the movie you already made. Just call it whatever you call do that. I don't care if you do that, do it. Just don't call it fucking live action. I have to explain to my kid that dragons aren't real.

'cause it's a live action. How to train your dragon. It's not live action, bro. You're game, bro. Your, your 

Tom: gain. Oh no, they're popping. Did I peek? I peeked out. Did you do this one before? Is it in the, the vault? I told you it. 

Jonathan: [00:47:00] It's, yeah, it was a test episode. I told you that already. Oh, shit, shit, shit. But if we, if this is what we're doing, you know, I did two weeks ago I did.

It's me from voicemail, but you just followed me up with it. Me today, so, all right. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, yeah. Wait, I was gonna let that slide, but no. Did you do this one before? Yeah. Fucking. In the vault. I, 'cause the other one I had was too wordy. I couldn't get it short enough to do tonight.

I gotta work on the edits. I gotta get some punch ups. I gotta call some script doctor friends and get my, who would you fight better? Uh, listen, I think that we've been, I've been tasking the audience with a lot today. Um, but listen, no, homies. If there's anyone that you wanna fight and you wanna submit, I think that we should take that and we should.

Uh, I don't, how, how did they tell us? I don't know. Whatever. We'll figure, figure out how to tell us D's comments on a post, like whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. DM. Dm. Yeah. DM us. Yeah. Comment on YouTube. Comment on one of the clips. I don't know, I, I don't have a plan for you. You're an adult figured out. Google.

Google how to call your representatives. Please Google how to call your representatives and how to leave no home or a post about who you'd fight. Those [00:48:00] are the two things that Gem and I can tell you. 

Tom: Alright. 

Jonathan: Am I reading or you're reading? 

Tom: I think that you should. I stumbled so hard. Yeah, you bombed it last weekend.

All right. I did. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to No Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms and YouTube graphics and music by Matt Ladner. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only.

Thank you. Wow. Love your friend, professional. 

Jonathan: Love you. Bye.