Take Away the D

Jonathan and Tom celebrate their feature in The Advocate. They later recount a night out at a popular queer party, sparking a candid conversation about the surprising power of being an outsider and why not fitting in can be the healthiest choice of all.

Transcript

Tom: [00:00:00] What's up? What's 

Jonathan: up? 

Tom: We did it. We did it. 

Jonathan: We gotta start just firing through those. All right, we now I just do it to see how you're gonna react. Here we are, episode eight on Sunday, August. Third, we're recording this. Uh, that's right. I jumped the gun Bears. Welcome to homo. You welcome to the homo. I'm all over the place.

See, this is a mess. This is gonna be a fun one. I'll tell you out of the gate, this is gonna be a fun one. This is no homo. I can't even do this part right. This is the No Homo podcast with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. I'm Tom. I'm Take over please. I'm 

Tom: glad you got that part right. This is episode eight.

We're recording on Sunday, August 3rd, but you guys won't hear this for a week and a half. Uh, and the reason we're doing that is we're both about to go on different vacations and so we're recording a bunch of episodes early. 

Jonathan: Yes, different vacations. Unfortunately not together, so, yeah. So 

Tom: unfortunately, 

Jonathan: yeah.

Tom: Um, so this won't be the up to, up to the minute. 

Jonathan: Which I know news. 

Tom: And then just like that podcast 

Jonathan: y'all are, that everyone tunes in for the hot, hot, hot takes. Um, [00:01:00] but we've got plenty to discuss. We do. So, um, if we can hold it together today, it's a, it's a Sunday podcast, so that's a little bit different.

It's a, it's a different vibe. It's also, um, a Sunday after we got to hang out this weekend, which was a lot of fun. We did been, we went out 

Tom: Friday night. 

Jonathan: We went out Friday night and I'm still working on the company from night. Came home Sunday 

Tom: morning. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Saturday morning. But either way, I like Sunday morning.

Like it feels like it. Yeah. We've 

Tom: never had a weekend like that. We should do that. 

Jonathan: Okay. Okay. Let's do it. This was a fun weekend though. It was, um.

This is going so well. Oh my God. Welcome to no homo. Uh, okay. For real, for real. We can do this. Yeah, because I'm not editing this shit out. We gotta do it. We gotta get in. All right. Um, we have big news this week. We have big news. What's our big news, Tom? 

Tom: We were in The advocate wrote an article about us.

Christopher Wiggins. The Christopher Wiggins. Shout out to Christopher. 

Jonathan: Thank you so much, Christopher. It's a, it's a really lovely piece. It's very kind. [00:02:00] Um, yeah. We sat down in the Zoom with Christopher a couple of weeks ago, I guess, or I don't remember, a couple weeks ago. And, um, it, today is, is 

Tom: International Friendship 

Jonathan: Day.

International Friendship Day. Um, so when we're recording this on, uh, August 3rd Sunday, it is International Friendship Day and we were, uh, interviewed, uh, because we're friends, um, gay guy and a 

Tom: straight guy who are friends. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Um, do, uh, you talk, 'cause I'm gonna go look up the title of the article 'cause I love it.

I don't have it right in front of me, but the ti the title of the article so good. The title is 

Tom: pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're so honored. Thank you Christopher, for reaching out and for writing such a nice piece. Um, it's pretty cool to be recognized where, I mean, we're only, uh, eight episodes in. This is super exciting for us.

Um, and it seems to be part of like a larger trend out magazine just this week released an article, uh, titled Straight Men Don't Have Enough Friends. Could Gay Men Be The Cure? So. Basically we're super zeitgeisty right now. Um, 

Jonathan: yeah, we're, we're central of the zeitgeist right now. We 

Tom: are, we are. It's, it's very [00:03:00] exciting.

I'm, I'm proud. 

Jonathan: Yeah, it's, it's just, uh, it, I guess it's the, the kind of the tagline that I, one is straight, the other's gay together, these best friends are re-imagining masculinity. Uh, this is the part that I like. Their friendship is a love story. Just not the kind you're used to. That's 

Tom: right. I love Great.

I love that too. I love, I love when they call you the loud one. Uh, and I love, I love being called, um, physically muscular. Physically muscular strong daddy vibes. Yeah, that's right. That's right. What can I 

Jonathan: say? 

Tom: Um, I do wanna point out that it's one of the parties we go, you like to come to with me is wrecked, uh, to gay party and it's spelled W-R-E-C-K-E-D.

Um, although I like Christopher spelling is, um, sexy and she kind of sounded like a Yeah, it was kind of sound like a fun, sexy spelling German or something. Yeah. Yeah. I would either shout to rec. Great. You would 

Jonathan: like that party. I would. But anyway, go check it out. It's a cool article. Um, we again, thank you Christopher.

Thank you The advocate. Um, yeah, we're honored. Thank you. We're honored. Yeah. Yeah. We are also, uh, uh, muddy brained. I'm sorry. This [00:04:00] is, yeah. Yeah. Do you want tell us why we are. So let's talk about Yes. Yes. Friday night, we can do it. I can, I can lock in. Friday night we went to, uh, Sheila, a party. Um, and this time it was out in, uh, is it always at the same venue?

Tom: It has always been at the same venue. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Uh, like deep, deep queens. Deep Brooklyn. Yeah. It's called Hollow. It's in Ridgewood, Queens. Okay. 

Tom: Yeah, not far from nowadays. Great. Yeah. Party thrown by my friend Robert Smith. Uh, really talented party promoter. I think Sheila's been on for about a year now. Um. And, uh, it's just a great scene.

It's a really, uh, fun vibe. He does a really good job of curating the music, the DJs, the, the look of the party, the feel of the party. It's very welcoming. Yeah. Um, and you came and your wife Jen came. Yeah. Uh, and part of the reason was to celebrate my betroth. Uh, that's right. 40, uh, 42nd birthday. Nikon's 

Jonathan: birthday was such a, such a joy to celebrate.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, it was a blast. You guys have been talking about this party for a while. I know that you've. Been, uh, before and I've been excited to go and I was excited that it worked at [00:05:00] this time. 

Tom: What's your one, one sentence review? 

Jonathan: Oh, oh man. Um, uh. E Or words throw 

Tom: Gimme words. 

Jonathan: Yeah, words. Uh, I felt could do words.

I felt, um, I felt old, but welcome. Um, 

Tom: yeah. I always feel like old man at the rave. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. It was a little old man at the rave, but, you know, but nobody, that was nobody else putting that on me. That was just me feeling old. I, I, it felt cool because it's like, it's like. Movie set up for a venue, like, it's like you drive for forever.

It's kind of this corner spot, and then you walk in and it's way bigger than you expect it to be. 'cause you gotta go like down graffiti basement stairs. Yeah. To like, there's a, there's a, a little puddle of water that I, three different times saw someone mopping and it never went away. It was like, it was like set dressed.

It was like the like. You know, you are going to maybe think they were mopping 

Tom: to put it back. Yeah. 

Jonathan: They were bringing the water back. They're like, oh, someone dried up the water spot. It really helps the vibe to have this little, it does this little puddle here in the corner. It really does. Yeah. Um, [00:06:00] yeah, it's a super cool venue.

It was very, uh, it was, it was down, it was like a basement party, but it didn't feel like a basement. It was plenty open. It was like really nice space. Like you said, the, the vibe was cool. The, the lighting was very cool. The music was good. I'm not, I'm not in enough to like know the difference in music really, but I like.

I like things that sound good? And it was good music. Um, uh, we had a great time. Um, you, you guys have just friends everywhere. Uh, so it was fun to, to meet a bunch of your friends that I even hadn't met yet. Um, that was cool. I. You know, I, it was, no, it was no Dan from Albuquerque, but, uh, I, you were able to give me a couple of shout outs.

I had, I got noticed just through you. I got noticed as the other guy from the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. The straight one from the podcast. So that was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was a great time. A great party and yeah. So 

Tom: someone told me you looked better, you were hotter in person than you are in the podcast. 

Jonathan: Wow.

Okay. Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah, so congrats. I don't know what you're doing wrong right now, but 

Jonathan: yeah, I, I'll fix my setup, I guess, whatever I need to do here. But, uh, no, it was a blast and [00:07:00] we, uh, it had been a while since like Jen's gotten to come out with us too, and so it was fun and we just, just to give the listener, I guess a little inside like we.

Uh, live, what, 20 minutes apart? Yeah. My, our house and yours. And, and still, if we go out, uh, especially like if Jen's with us, we just crash in your, we just spend the night at your place. We crash in your guest room as if we're out of town. Guests coming over. That's right. That's right. And so one of the highlights for the weekend of me, for me was, the party was great.

The party was a blast, but. What was really special was getting to experience the morning breakfast, the diner breakfast that Jen and I have heard so much about. What have you heard you, well, you guys, every time that you have someone like in town, every time that someone's over, uh, we keep hearing that you and Quan really put together this like really nice eggs and biscuits and bacon and you know, like a whole lineup for breakfast.

And frankly, we crash often enough that we're starting. To get offended that we never got diner breakfast. And so this week we did, and it, it really was, it lived up to the hype. It really lived up, up to the magic. You have three types 

Tom: of jam [00:08:00] to choose from. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Three types of jam that we had, we had, uh, mimosas.

Yeah. It was a really, really lovely, delicious coffee. Um, yeah, really kudos to the chefs. Excellent work. 

Tom: Don't, don't expect it ever again. 

Jonathan: That's fair. I think the, the one is good. The one was good for me. Um, yeah. Good. We, I, I got to, I really had a quite. The culinary journey yesterday. So we had diner breakfast in the morning and then, um, Jen and I were just gonna, the kids are still outta town, so we were just gonna chill out like all day.

Uh, we're gonna watch tv. That 

Tom: sounds like the kids are like in Europe or some travel. The We 

Jonathan: sit, yeah, the kids are away. Uh, they're traveling. They're abroad. The kids are abroad for the moment. Um, we, we went to, uh, uh, trader Joe's to grab some snacks, you know, because why? You don't, you can't, once there's a Trader Joe's around, you can't go to just boring, regular snacks.

But I'm not really like a, yeah. Trader Joe's shopper. Like I know about it and I've heard about it, and Jen is much more the expert, but because of parking, she wanted there, parking was a mess. So she ended up dropping me off and she was like, go ahead and go in and start [00:09:00] picking up some s Yeah, dude. Yeah, it was, it was a mess.

It was, it was a mess. And it's like, I don't know if it was good or bad for my A DHD brain because there's like no real rhyme or reason to the way they do that. Like the snacks. The, the, the regular grocery store kind of makes sense, I think. Yeah. Like if you're doing for regular stuff, but they have their just like goodies scattered as under everywhere.

Just pick an eye. You just have to walk. Yeah. And you, you don't know what you're gonna find. Yeah. Which was lovely, but also like, 

Tom: what'd you get? 

Jonathan: Uh, what did we get? Um, we got some, uh, we, uh, Scandinavian, I always say this, Scandinavian swimmers I think is what they're called. It's the Trader Joe's Swedish Fish.

Swish. Yeah. Um, but they're delicious. We got, uh, some, um, some. Uh, kind of standards like yogurt covered pretzels, uh, dark chocolate covered raisins. Um, but we got a, a Caesar salad. That's the healthy snacks dip. What's that, Caesar? Those, those are the healthy snacks. The healthy snacks. That's right. Yeah. A Caesar salad dip, which I was like, I don't know.

Sure. Let's take a swing. It was delicious. It was exactly. I don't know what to [00:10:00] say it was, except for exactly what you want it to be. It was like just enough Caesar to work as a dip. That's all I can say as a pitch. Did you 

Tom: destroy the snacks yesterday? Are there any left? 

Jonathan: Oh yeah. Well, we also got a, um. A a, uh, pre-made lasagna and, uh, uh oh yeah.

Lemon kota, uh, ravioli. Yes. So that was like the main course. Yes. So those were phenomenal. Those were delicious. Yes. And then it was just snacks before and after and around all of that. Amazing. Yeah, it was really good. We had some, it's a good, we had some ice cream already at home. We got some like, uh.

Chocolate covered pretzels slash like a mix, like a mixed bag and put that on some ice cream. It was delicious. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Really, really good. 

Tom: Well, I took qua out for a steak dinner last night. Oh, birthday. Uh, I struggled a little bit, uh, getting through the dinner. Uh, but, but I did, uh, we had a great time.

It was really nice. Um, and I was just still sort of like on a high from the weekend and being so, um. You know, we had such a good time together and it was, I was [00:11:00] just like still writing that and mm-hmm. Um, being so, uh, grateful to be in love and have ended up with someone that, um, I still don't know how I got so lucky to end up with.

Um, and he's so hot. He's hot and he's so hot and like he's real hot. Um. 

Jonathan: But you're a big, strong muscular, you know, strong daddy vibe ally. Muscular. Yeah, physically, daddy vibe. Physically muscular. Yeah. Yeah, man. 

Tom: Well listen to this part. So I'm, we're sitting there at the table and I'm just like beaming at him.

I'm smiling. We had such a good weekend, we're having good conversation. I was just like having a great time. And this couple was leaving who were sitting across the restaurant. And on the way out, the woman came over and she was like, excuse me. And I immediately was like, oh my God. It's a podcast, but it's like this 40-year-old woman.

And I was like, this is crazy. And she said to me, she goes, I just want to tell you, you are the most visibly joyful person I have ever seen in my life. 

Jonathan: Wow. And I felt 

Tom: the need to tell you that I started crying. Wow. I've never been told that before. I don't think of myself as joyful. Maybe never been that.

That's certainly not visibly joyful. [00:12:00] Um. So, yeah, that was really a nice, um, oh, that's 

Jonathan: incredible, man. Yeah. Yeah. What a call. Well, wan, uh, makes you very happy and you of course. Deserve him. You guys are great together. I love seeing you guys togethers. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Um, Christopher left out that part and I won't, I won't be rude to your exes, but I'm very excited about your current, your, your fiance.

I, I knew it was different. He didn't leave him out. He's 

Tom: in there. 

Jonathan: No, but not about, not the part where I went on and on about knowing the difference when, when you and Nick Juan. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: And I get it. You know, uh, there's too much to say about our physical, what physical specimen we are. Um, so, you know, not everything made the cut, but, uh, he did include 

Tom: fish and chips.

Though shout, shout out to fish and chips. That's 

Jonathan: true. That was love. I'm glad that Fish and Chips made the made the article. No, but you guys are, I mean. Incredibly sweet together. You're physically joy joyful together and I love it. Uh, it makes me very happy too. Thank you. As 

Tom: are you and Jen. 

Jonathan: Oh, thanks. Um, 

Tom: yeah, so, uh, there's no, and just like that, this episode.

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: And the reason is 'cause we're recording out of time. So, um, and we already on the last episode. You know, already acknowledged the news, the sad news, 

Jonathan: the sad, [00:13:00] sad news. And listen, let's just go ahead and get ahead of the rumors. Uh, the No Homa podcast did not have anything to do with getting it just like that canceled.

Okay. I know that that's what's out there. I know that there, there are rumors being spread that, that, that we had something to do with this as far as we know, as far as any of our representation has been able to find. We did not have anything directly to do with the canceling of this show. 

Tom: That's right.

That's right. Um, I want to, I want to read a, um. A quote from an article that, uh, New York magazine, uh, put out within like. Uh, hours of news, uh, and it's so funny and, um, I can't find the name of the writer, so apologies to the writer. But I'm gonna go ahead and read this quote from this article. Um, on August 1st, 2025, in the middle of an innocent workday, HBO, murdered.

And just like that, without warning the show, only three years old, though also in some ways 27 years old, though also ageless as a staggering snapshot of whatever happened to the collective consciousness. Post [00:14:00] 2020 remained a fascinating object for every moment of its brief and wonderful life To judge it on a spectrum of good to bad would've been missing the point entirely.

And just like that was a state of mind, and that mind was in a coma. It was a place to go for 44 minutes a week. A windowless white room filled with nitrous oxide. It was a safe and necessary container for our wild and dangerous national id. Which will now roam, unchecked, and destroy us all. 

Jonathan: It's such a good quote.

It's such a good quote. It's such a good way to encompass it too because I, you know, I've talked about it as a, a mirror to our bonker society, the way that sex and the city mirrored what was happening in the early two thousands. This show mirrors the insanity of our current time. Yeah. But I like, kind of like this, this approach better.

It's more like this was a, um. Uh, a reservoir, a respite for our bonkers ness. And now who knows what happens. Yes. Now it's unleashed, it's unbridled and unleashed and let out into the world. 

Tom: There's another fun, fun quote from a Vulture article that I'll let you read. 'cause Jen's the one that found [00:15:00] it. 

Jonathan: Sure.

Yeah. Uh, this is from a Vulture article. This is actually goes back to, uh, when they killed the dead person. Yes. This was, this was celebrating their Lisa Todd Wesley's 

Tom: husband, father. Yeah. 

Jonathan: They, they were. This is the, this is celebrating the choice to kill a dead character. Yeah. Uh. And just like that takes place in a reality that resembles ours, but is not a reality.

Unbound by certain natural laws that we take for granted as constant and unshakeable. 

Tom: So rest in peace. Uh, there'll be more rest in peace when we come back from our vacations. We will catch up on episodes 11 and 12, which will be missing. Yeah. Um, and then we'll move on from, and then those of you that hate this section can rest, rest assured.

It's almost over. 

Jonathan: I'm so sad to move on, but I get it. We need to, let's, let's, we need to, let's get going. That. That it will hold its place in our collective memories forever. Yeah. Um, and we will always love it and hate it for what it was.

All right, what's happening in the world outside of us? Let's talk. 

Tom: Yeah. Uh, well, I know you wanted to talk about the, um, the firing of our. [00:16:00] Economic data collector, the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Because as any good leader knows, if you don't like the outcome of a, a survey fire, the people who took the survey.

Yeah. Just, just all you, all you have to do to fix numbers is fire the people who told you the truth. Love it. That's, that's great leadership. So for those of 

Tom: you that aren't following the news and. If you listen to this podcast, you already know, shame on you. Follow the fucking news. Um, they just released the July, uh, job numbers report.

How many new jobs have been honored, added to the economy, which is a, uh. You know, many people follow this report as a sign of the health of the economy or the not health of the economy. And, um, the, the numbers were not good. They were far from what was predicted for the month. And in addition to releasing that report, they also, uh, went back and revised the job numbers that were released for May and June.

And those numbers are 90% lower than they thought they were when they first. Um, that's insane. Submitted them, which is insane. So the economy is not as good as we all thought it was the last couple months? No. Um, obviously we took a hit in April when the tariffs started and [00:17:00] then it looks like things were actually getting better.

And, um, 

Jonathan: well, and just to be the, I'm just gonna bite off Paris social friend of the pod at Elson and Scott Galloway real quick. Them like, one thing to remember for that I have to keep in mind is like the markets do not actually reflect the economy. That's right. Yeah. Like the markets are settling out and I don't even understand all the magic that goes into that, but.

It, it can start to look like maybe things are okay, but there's so many things that go into that. When you look at the actual economy and you look at job numbers, you look at employment, then the things are, things are not good. Yeah. And there's no way around that, that things are not good. 

Tom: Yeah. And also the, so firing someone like this is, um, this isn't the first time in history.

Something like this has done, this has been done in Greece and China, Argentina, to name a few. Um, it's a very authoritarianism mood. Move. Yeah. It's very, very scary. Um, Trump didn't like the facts and so he's firing the person that delivered the facts. Yeah. This person didn't make, make up the numbers 

Jonathan: just real shoot the messenger kind of bullshit.

Yeah. And, and it's like, it's, it's true and it's scary. And I also feel like it fits into the, uh, just all of the distract. News that's going on. Yeah, I, I can't help but think, and [00:18:00] this is not my original idea either, but I can't help but think that another one of these outlandish blasts from Trump is just a way to distract us from the fact that he's absolutely all over the Epstein files and doesn't want that getting out.

Tom: For sure, for sure. Yeah, it's a scary time right now. I'm, I've also been, um, sort of, uh, bothered by the news. The redistricting plans in Texas? Um, sure, yeah. Texas is planning to redistrict, uh, so that they can up their, the republicans can up their chances of maintaining control of the house next year when we have the election.

Jonathan: And there is, there, is there any way Help me. 'cause I, I've seen it too and I've, I've kept up a little bit, but you always do a better job than I do of keeping up. Is there, is there even cover to it now or is it just No, they. 

Tom: They're flat out saying, I forget, I read the name of what their plan is, but it's like everything everywhere, all at once, they took that title and filtered it through.

Um, they're, they're just doing everything. They know that they're gonna lose the house next year. Yeah. Um, they should. The way everything's looking. Yeah. Things are going. So unless we fuck it up or things change, um, and this is normal usually when a. A a a a party comes to power presidential election [00:19:00] and one both chambers of the house.

Then usually the following election, two years later, uh, the house will, usually the house or the Senate will swing back. Um, so it's pretty normal and, um, the redistricting is only supposed to happen every 10 years after the census. So we're now 10 years into a, five years into a cycle and it. This kind of thing has been done before, but it's, um, not normal.

Um, and what's scary about it is that, you know, redistrict redistricting will obviously weigh the scales towards more Republicans getting elected in Texas. Um, but it does other things as well that are scary. It depresses turnout. If, if you know your party's not gonna win, why even bother to go Yeah. To an election?

Um, and then it makes, I think the scariest thing is it makes politicians cater towards, towards their base because in primaries, if. If Republicans know they're gonna win a district, then the Republicans competing, uh, between each other for the chance to run for that district are gonna out flank each other, who can go more to the right or in a democratic, um, district who can go more to the left.

Yeah. And neither is good for the [00:20:00] state of our. Um, country. Um, because what happens is you're not playing towards the center anymore. You're not trying to win over people that wouldn't vote for you. Um, you're not trying to 

Jonathan: lead a large group of people. You're trying to win and hold power. And that's like, when that's the goal, then we don't win.

We lose. Yeah. 

Tom: Um, I mean, luckily, uh, California Governor Newsom, some other Democratic states are talking about. Doing the same thing in retaliation. I hate it. I think we have to. Yeah. I think we have to fight, play, fight fire with fire. Um, it's gonna be harder for Democrats to do it. 'cause often in our, in Democratic states, um, we use independent organizations to come up with the maps.

Yeah. Which everybody should be doing. It should be a national law. Yeah. Um, if we had signed the John Lewis Voter Rights Act a couple years ago, it would have been. Um, so it's just scary times, man. And, um, but thankfully no homo was here to fix it. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah, we're here just solving problems. Just look, look all of this from from male loneliness to gerrymandering.

Get a gay friend and let him flirt with you. That's just, yeah, let him [00:21:00] blow you. 

Tom: Come on. What's the problem? 

Jonathan: Oh my God, what's the problem? Um. Yeah, that, that would fix it all. I think that's it. That's all we have to do. Um, I kinda like Newsom's. I know it's like a little bit whatever, petty, and I know it's coming at kind of like a, what I know it's, it's, it's rubbing some people the wrong way, but I say why not?

It's the energy I think we kind of need and I don't love it either, but it, you know, it's the energy we need right now. 

Tom: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um. Yeah, I mean, so I wanted to talk a little bit about, your wife said something interesting after Sheila the other night, which is primarily a, um, a queer party.

And, um, you guys were definitely like sort of outsiders as straight people there that were there. Yeah. Although straight people go to that party, that's not the first time. I'm sure they, I think it might've 

Jonathan: been outsiders for being older, more than we were for being straighter, but either way. Yeah. And, and, yeah, let's.

Uh, let's talk about Sheila. It, because it, nothing about anyone there made us feel unwelcome. It was very welcoming. Yeah. But for her, more specifically than me. Um. Because I, you [00:22:00] know, she doesn't come out with us as often as I come out with you. Yeah. Um, but she, yeah, she was making the point that, like, on the way there and then getting there, she doesn't always, she doesn't really ever know what exactly is getting she's getting into and how it's going to be received.

That she's there, like she's coming into a group as an outsider from that group. And validly wondering if it's, if she is welcome, if it's okay for her to be there, if she's moving into a space that she's not actually going to be, is she gonna mess with the vibe there because they're not gonna be happy that she's there.

Yeah. Um. And it's like she, she made the good point that it's, it's healthy to do that. It's healthy to step into, uh, situations where you don't. Typically belong and you can see what other Yeah. Groups are like, that you don't fit in. Exactly. And how strange it is for people like her and myself that we're just like, you know, cis, cis male, cis female, straight, white, middle class.

Like, it's kind of, most of the situations we're in, we're, we're built for, for our community, for our type, you know? Yeah. Like, and, um, so it's, it's, it's, it's. Fun. Go ahead. 

Tom: Well, I was gonna say, [00:23:00] what did she say exactly? 'cause I set us up, but we should tell the listeners what her comment was. 

Jonathan: Well, I don't know.

Did I not say it right? What did she say? Oh, I guess, I 

Tom: guess you kind of, 

Jonathan: she said stepping into communities as an outsider is healthy. It's healthy to be in situations where you don't belong. Yeah. This is great. We're going to, we just hit like we got in the advocate. We got all sorts of things going. And listenership is gonna drop like a motherfucking stone after this one just.

I hope that the vibe carries over that we had such a good time this weekend that that's why we're just so muddy right now. But plus, you look so hot. I've never seen you look like this before. 

Tom: Like what did you do differently? A new lotion or, 

Jonathan: yeah, that's what it was. A new lotion. I just gotta try to make myself look as hot on camera as I look at standing outside a party in the middle of the night.

Um, but one of the things I guess that we were discussing and that we can get into if I, if I, if you feel like I quoted my wife Yeah. Do accurately enough now. Okay, great. Thanks. Um, is, we were talking about like, and I, I, I really think this is one of the things I, one of the reasons I'm [00:24:00] attracted to the gay community specifically in hanging out with you guys is because it.

It is, it does take work. It, it's not, it's, it's a community that, for a long time had to be in the shadows, had to be very careful, had to like really be insular to protect itself and to protect, protect the people involved. And you can like, honestly still feel that strength in the community. It's a community that is very tight knit.

Like we were joking. We walked in and you guys hugged the first eight people we saw. And Jen turned to me and she was like, they 

Tom: were kind of standing in a line. It was like a rec receival. It was a, it was like a, yeah, 

Jonathan: in the, at the stairs before you go down to the cool, like set dressed basement party.

There's like a greeting party at the top of the stairs and you guys stopped and ping pong down the hallway to hug everyone there. And Jen and I are standing in the back and we're like, do we. Do that, do they, do they know these guys? Or is this just the greeter at the party? Like, is it, I don't know how this works, but it was like clear that you do know a lot of people that are there, and part of that is because the, these, these parties are, are, it's a, it's a [00:25:00] smaller group, I guess, and like, it's kind of intentional.

You go to these, you go on purpose because it's what you wanna be doing. You want to have this community and build it. And it's, it's cool to see and it's cool to see like the work that has gone into making these parties. First of all, exist at all exists safely. Yeah. You know, exists legally, whatever the years of work that that took, and now like it's, it's because it's intentional.

It's not just, and I'm not trying to. Shit on like the normal, like, like, or uh, the media and straight culture, but like, it's not hard to find the sports bar that you go to to sit and drink beer and watch sports all day, whatever. Like that's kind of like, that's easy to do and it feels a little easy, like when you go in there, people are sitting and it can be super fun.

And I think I've talked about it on here before. I can sit and drink beer and eat wings and watch a flat screen TV with the best of them. It's can be super fun, but it is not active. It is not intentional. There's nothing, it doesn't take work to do any of that. Yeah, and like there's something about having to get into like deep queens and then, and then be on your feet and be dancing and like be [00:26:00] in the midst mix of people that take, takes work and that makes it.

More fun. It's more active. 

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. And you guys also said, or pointed out, I mean, New York has a very healthy gay scene and lots of bars and parties and one of the best cities to live in if you're gay for opportunities. But it's still, there's so much less than the straight community. Yeah. So the chances of running into people, you know, when you go out in the gay world, in New York are high.

Yeah. And, and, and the more you go out, the more you meet people. And um, that's part of the fun, you're right, is to be part of a community. Yeah. And I think 

Jonathan: that it's, there's something about too, like. For, even for Jen and I, when we are in a situation like this where we're not, we're not part of the the group and we're an outsider coming in.

It's still relatively safe for us. Like it's an interesting experiment to be a part of, but there's not a danger to it. Like, like the opposite can be, you know, like, yeah. I mean, I don't know how often you feel unwelcome and unsafe, but like, I, I don't know. And I, yeah. What is your experience with that? Like, do you ever Yeah, 

Tom: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, uh, I would love to get into that and, but first I [00:27:00] wanna say, um, and, and I totally, it was interesting to hear Jen talk about it over diner breakfast. 'cause I hadn't thought about what must be going through her head on the way to these parties and she gave me shit for never accurately really giving her much information about what the parties are gonna be.

So I can imagine she asks, 

Jonathan: she spends. Days asking for a dress code from all of us and we're all like, I don't know, look cute. Like I know cute, fabulous. Or something. I keep telling her like, no one's gonna care what you wear, baby. Like, this is not, this one's not for you. Like, it's not gonna matter. Yeah, 

Tom: yeah, yeah.

Um, but I will, I will say obviously, um, I am intentional about, like, you always ask me, can Jen come to this one? And I'll tell you yes or no. This one's for Jen. This one's not for Jen. Um, like I wouldn't bring Jen to the Eagle. I would bring you to the Eagle. Yeah, you would. I trying to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we should for the podcast, uh, not for content.

Uhhuh Uhhuh, like, I think you can't say no now, but, um. If you think Jonathan should come to the Eagle, write in, to your senators. Call your senators, call your house reps. Google how to do it. I'm not gonna tell you how to do it. You have to do that yourself, but please let your voice be heard. Um, yeah, but I, I wanted to say, so [00:28:00] I grew up in, uh, central Connecticut in a very, um, small, smallish, small, small city.

Um. Uh, and not even a city, a a wannabe city and, uh, suburb suburban. And, um, but the, the city I grew in was, I grew up in, was very mixed. So you have like, we have this like big mountain on, uh, one side of town where a lot of people with a lot of money live with big houses. And then we also have the projects.

And so you have every socio. Economic, you could imagine, um, very racially, racially diverse. A lot of black people, a lot of Puerto Ricans. And, um, there were two high schools in my town, rival high schools, public high schools. And, um, so I grew, I grew up in a very mixed, um, learning environment and I'm so grateful for that.

Um, as I got older, I realized, uh, when I moved to college and I met people from, you know, in New York City who were moving from Texas and hadn't been around that. And how, how. Um, weird. They were [00:29:00] about it. Yeah. And I was like, I, I, I, I became so grateful that I had that experience, that it was normal to me.

Um, and I am now engaged, happily engaged to a black man. And, um, he took me physically 

Jonathan: joyously engaged physically, 

Tom: joy joyously, visibly joyously engaged ably joy. Yeah. Um, and he, uh, so I've gone to some, some things with him that I wouldn't have gone to before. He took me to a, um, open mic, uh, like a rap thing.

And he took me to, um, a, a black gay bar one time, and those two events were the first time in my life I'd ever been, I realized I didn't realize until I'd been in there, hadn't even occurred to me that I hadn't experienced this. It was the first time in my life I was somewhere where I was the. Only white person in the room.

Jonathan: Mm-hmm. One 

Tom: of the venues had literally probably a hundred people. The other one probably had 200. So it was big, you know, biggest parties biggest. Mm-hmm. Biggest. Mm-hmm. There's a large group to be the only white person. 

Jonathan: Mm-hmm. 

Tom: And I, uh, was ca came face to face with that realization and face to face with my feelings about it.

Probably [00:30:00] not dissimilar to what Jen was feeling. Yeah. At Sheila. And, um, I didn't feel, um, uncomfortable. Um, any discomfort I had was. It bubbling up from inside of like, oh, this is weird. I've never experienced this. But also immediately, and I'm grateful that I have this presence of mind immediately in the moment thinking, oh my God, he feels this all the time.

I take him to things all the time where he's the only black person in the room. Yeah. And um. Realizing he's probably done that his whole life. Yeah. Um, and, uh, be, be, and then I became grateful and I like really took a breath and was like, I'm gonna like live in this discomfort. 'cause I should be going through this.

Everybody should be going through this. There's, 

Jonathan: yeah, 

Tom: it's healthy, it's healthy to be, as I made you quote from Jen, it's healthy to me in these situations. Um, and, and it made me also think about. There's a party I think I've told you about before, I haven't brought you to this one before, but it's called Soul Summit.

Mm-hmm. Um, and it's a very famous house party, a house music party that happens in, uh, Fort Green, Brooklyn. It's like 30 plus [00:31:00] years old now, I think. Um, Fort Green Park. Um, and, uh, Fort Green Park has a giant, it's sort of like a giant hill. So the top of the park is, um, you're at the top of this hill. Mm-hmm.

And there's a big space there. And they, they've been throwing this outdoor in the summer, usually two or three times every summer. Um, house, music party, and it's free. So it's just in the park. You just show up. It's on a Sunday. Nice. It goes for hours. Um, and it was, you're very popular. It's a major event in the black community in Brooklyn, certainly.

And if not New York, and I don't know, maybe like. 10 years ago, uh, the gay started to find it and 'cause the music is really good and the vibes are great. Uh, the vibes are impeccable. And so I've been going for a couple years now and, and now it's turned into like Brooklyn hipsters and white people, black people, gay people, straight people, kids, grandmothers sitting on the side in their chairs watching everybody dance bubbles.

Um, one year I went, there were butterflies landing on people like it's. The most amazing vibe [00:32:00] I've ever experienced at any party I've ever been to. Um, and I remember a couple years ago being at that party and looking around and it was, um. Being struck by this is the potential of our country. This party represents what this country could be.

And it is, I, in a way you could say it is here in New York, at least, it is this. Mm-hmm. Um, because you had every possible kind of person you could imagine just dancing and feeling joy and having the best time, and no one felt unsafe and no one felt. Unwelcome despite it being a, a, a black party, first and foremost.

I did not feel unwelcome there at all. I felt very welcome and, um, I just, it gives me hope for the future. Um, but we have a long way to go. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Well there's something about like, uh, I don't know how much we want to get into it today, if we even have time for it, but like that the work that it takes for a community to survive in a place in a larger place that like.

Doesn't want it. I mean, the black community and the history of America, the gay community and the history of America, those are both communities that had to work hard to survive as communities. And so like, [00:33:00] you can kind of see that, you can see the joy that exists, you can see the strength that exists in the community.

And then I, I don't know, man, like I, I'm, I'm. I, I have to say, I have to call balls and strikes like the, the white community as kind of the, has, has, I mean, has established themselves as kind of the apex predator of the United States, like made it, made it so easy for people like me to exist here. That there's no more work that goes into that and it's kind of atrophied that feeling of strength in community.

Yeah, and I think that when you look at like a lot of this stuff happening right now, what you're seeing is the response to very small inconveniences for groups of people like my, like me, that it feels so big because these people have not actually struggled. And I don't like, I hate that because people like, I'm not rich.

I had to work hard, I had to do all, I had to find friends. I wasn't, I got bullied. I, any number of things, like for sure you, anyone's journey, is there a journey? Feels as hard as it feels. You know, like you, you only know as much as you know, but it seems in, it's like crazy to [00:34:00] me that people can't stop and take a moment and go like, okay, my life is, life is hard.

My life has been very, I've had full struggles every step of the way, and I've worked for everything that I've gotten. And also it is clear to me that there are more struggles on other entire communities that have been placed upon them. You know? 

Tom: I mean, one of the most maddening things is when a white, cis straight male refuses to acknowledge why that's, um, yeah, a privilege And why gives, yeah, to mad to like, 

Jonathan: that's so weak.

It's like, yeah, dude. I know. It's been hard. I'm sure it's been like whatever you, whatever struggles you had, were struggles Also, this place was fucking built for you. Like, it's like I'm right-handed. I, yeah. I don't have a single, there's like, I don't, like I don't check a single box. That makes life harder for me.

Like it's all. And my life is hard. I've struggled to, to act like there aren't other, there aren't like systemic ways that has been harder for other entire groups. It is just so stupid to me. Yeah. And so weak. It's so weak to not be able to acknowledge that and admit that. And I think that you see, that's what you see is you see like [00:35:00] weakness.

Uh, coming out in this like anger kind of way, this, this reactive kind of way versus you talk about like Soul Summit. Like I remember being in New Orleans, uh, not too long ago and just like, I love New Orleans so much. I love the vibe of New Orleans. It's such a cool city. And like everywhere they go, everywhere you go, the music is amazing and the vibe is amazing.

And I, I was with a friend who was asking, like, they said like, why do you think that is? Why is this place so vibrant? And I said. Uh, trauma, like, it's, it's just like, it's like recovering from and getting through trauma. Mm-hmm. It helps build that resilience. And when you haven't had to do that, frankly, you don't have the, the reserve, the reservoir of that resilience.

And I think that it at gay parties or at black parties or in, in places where those communities are thriving, you see like, oh yeah, this is what happens when a community works to have what it has. And celebrates that. Yeah. And it's so, it's so attractive and it's so, like, I love that kind of energy. 

Tom: Yeah.

Yeah. I do too. I want to give a shout out actually to, um, our friend of the pod, Matt [00:36:00] Ladner, who designed our art and did music, uh, did our opening music for us. Mm-hmm. Um, Matt lives in, uh, one of my best friends lives in Memphis, Tennessee, and he's a dj, Marcel Meau, he his DJ name, and he's been throwing for years now a party in Memphis called Sauna and, uh, which I think was sort of initially, um.

It is meant to be a gay party, but the party has gotten so popular and, um, they throw it in a gay bar often they throw it in a gay bar, uh, the backyard of this, uh, gay bar in Memphis and it's turned into a party, not unlike what I've described, soul Summit as being, um, nice. There's no kids and no, probably no, um, old ladies sitting on the side in their chairs.

But, um, it's a very mixed crowd. A lot of straight people come to it. It's not just white. And he's created a, a place for community in Memphis. And it's really kind of a beautiful thing to watch it grow. And I think we need more of that across the wor the country. Yeah. We, it, it, it, it doesn't have to be just a party.

Um, but, uh, I, I think part of the devolution of our. You know, social cohesion as a country is, um, you know, [00:37:00] people don't go to church anymore. Um, there people aren't going to these things where you see your community face to face. Yeah. And you're, everybody's interacting online and they're siloing and they're being angry.

Yeah. And we need to foster more places for people to see each other face to face and realize that we're all humans. Um, 

Jonathan: I think that you're right, getting that, getting in the physical out in the community and getting, but also like diversifying that community, you know? Yeah. Like, you, like yeah. People aren't gonna church, but I look at my church and like, sure.

I loved it growing up. It was the most homogenous place I've ever been. You know? Yeah. Like it's, there is no diversity there, so in that then there's no actual chance for it to grow. Beyond that. Yeah, sure. You can, you can grow within that, but you're not gonna grow beyond that. And that's where I think some of that atrophying happens.

You don't, you don't learn how to, you don't, you don't. I mean, you can take things from other communities. Like that's what I feel like I can do is I can help bring things from other communities that I visit, I spend time in, bring it back to mine and be like, guys, we don't have to do it just as one way.

There's more funds, there's, there's different ways to have fun. Yeah. There's different ways to experience parts of life. Yeah. Um. Yeah. [00:38:00] So we, I don't know. Let's start, let's get a no Poned party that is just a giant diverse, diverse party. Every 

Tom: gay has to bring one straight with them. 

Jonathan: No, I don't know.

Haven't I talked about that before? I've gotta gatekeeper the straights. Invited to gay party. This will be the no homo party will be a diverse party That Yes can be a one-to-one. 

Tom: But you'll, you'll be the only Oh, okay. No, 

Jonathan: no, no. The, the NoMo party gonna be one to one when we go to, when I come with you to parties, I gotta vet all the other straits that are being invited.

I don't, I'm not opening the door. I, I 

Tom: think I'm more, uh. Qualified to vet the other straight guys. 

Jonathan: No, that's a wide open. There's no vetting there. You just like, everyone's in, everyone's in. 

Tom: I, I think it's on people individually to you have to actively work to be a part of your community. Yeah. If you have kids, you should fucking be on the PTO of your kid's school.

What are you doing if you're not, dude, I'm 

Jonathan: telling you. Listen, I I, this past year I was, I did like some volunteer work at the school that helped, uh, blah, blah, do a handful of things. I was often the only dude there. I was often the only, yeah. The only father, uh, but that's just timing. That's like the ability of, of having work that I can do that for.

But so much, and I wanna spend more [00:39:00] time on this later, but so much valuable information passes through those women in those kinds of places. Yeah. It's just, it's like, it's like just chatting, like, just as we're like unloading a truck full of stuff for the school, everyone's just talking about whose teacher is what and what's going on in what class, and I'm realizing like, oh.

All the shit. I sit around wondering about that. I'm like, I guess I'll never know. Like who knows what kind of first grade teacher my son's gonna get. Well, this is how I know. Yeah. I get locked into the community. I find people who know about it. I talk to them, we experience it together. I learn more. 

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I'm sure those other wives love you too. 

Jonathan: I think I do. Okay. Yeah, I 

Tom: bet. Yeah. I, I, I think. Yeah. I mean, you have to actively try to be a part of your community. You have to search it out. Now, it doesn't come as easy as it takes work. It 

Jonathan: should take work. Yeah. Things that matter should take work. 

Tom: Yeah.

Yeah. And I, I meet your neighbors. Yeah. We, we have neighbors upstairs that we hate and they were causing us a lot of problems, so I lost Christmas was like, we're gonna get them a Christmas gift, and we got them this box of chocolates. They never even acknowledged it, but. I noticed a thaw in the [00:40:00] relationship.

Jonathan: Mm. And 

Tom: I think, I think you, we have to, we have to meet our neighbors. Mm-hmm. We have to make connections with each other. And so then when the inevitable civil war comes, maybe that person across the other side is holding a gun at, you won't shoot because you brought them a box of chocolates for Christmas.

Yeah. Go. I think we have to do that. Right. That's a good, that's a good message of hope. Yeah. Listen, because if the Civil War is coming, I think unfortunately. Speaking of, do you know what it's time for? Yeah. Who would you fight? Who would you fight? Pow, pow. You wanna go? You want me to go? You go ahead. You go first.

Okay. Okay. I want to fight not only gay Trumpers, but like, what are you guys doing? Um, it's just like insane. Uh, as you've astutely pointed out it, the gay community has not had an easy time and since we first started to take our first steps towards fighting for our rights after Stonewall, um, and it's been, uh, an uphill battle the whole way.

And to [00:41:00] be gay and to not. Have acknowledgement about what we've gone through as a community and the rights we fought so hard to fight for. Mm-hmm. And then to vote for a side that is actively working against us. Yeah. And actively trying to take away our rights and actively working to. Dismantle. HIV money for HIV.

It's just insane and it's heartbreaking, but I think maybe even worse are the gays that fuck the gay Trumpers. Those are the guys I really want to fight because that is just insane to, to, to, to. To have and, and okay, maybe you didn't know when you did it, but then like once you know, you, we have to, we have to band together.

We have to list Estrada, this stuff that's a feeder reference. We have to cut off the sex for the gay Trumpers. We have to say, no more sex for you. Yeah. No more dick for you until you stop. Get in fucking line because we are, if you're gay and you're fucking gay, Trumpers, you are. You are the problem. You are, you are, you are [00:42:00] not standing up for our rights.

And, uh, uh, that's who I wanna fight, so 

Jonathan: I love it. Thank you. I love it. Um, yeah, wield what weapons you can, and if that means taking away the D then take away the D, you know, take away the D. Um, I want to fight, and this is what I've been holding onto it for a minute, but I'm gonna go ahead and it, now I want to fight Tommy Tuberville.

The, uh, uh, Alabama representative, uh, in, in Congress. He is just a Trump SCO fan. He was with Trump at, on January 6th at the Deus before anything went wrong. Yeah. Um, I mean, you know what I mean? Uh uh, he now is gonna run for governor of the state of Alabama and he's been talking a lot of shit about other states.

He's been talking shit to Newsom when there was stuff going on in California and he is just like, so far up Trump's ass. And like now he's gonna go run for governor of the state. All he's done before is be a football coach. And he was like a relatively. Eastern football coach at the time. Um, he coached for Auburn, whatever.

Uh, we don't even have to get into that side of it, but he is, he has no, there's no reason he should be in politics other than he's kind of a name in the state and he's so far up Donald Trump's a$$ that he gets this position now. Yeah. And meanwhile, like Alabama is [00:43:00] still, uh, uh, in the top 10 states for crime.

It is a top 10 for violent crime. It's 51st in in infant immortality. It's like counting, uh, districts. So it's like, it's like the worst place to be for infants and mothers. It's 50th. In, uh, uh, mortality. It's, it's the fifth most obese state in the, in the union. And this guy talks so much s and has no point of reference and has no, there's no place he can come from that is going to be helpful.

He's just a sycophant. And there's, I have, I have. So little hope for the state of Alabama when a football coach who is just a, a Trump sycophant, becomes governor. Yeah. So I'm nervous and I would like to fight him. I would love to see that. Are you challenging him to a boxing match? I would like to challenge him to a boxing match.

A shirtless boxing match. Yes. Woof. At least on your side. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll do it. He could. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be the one shirtless that'll make the money. I, when are we doing a shirtless podcast? Uh. I don't know, maybe, maybe it comes up, maybe at, um, maybe when we hit certain [00:44:00] numbers. Yeah, I was gonna say we have to tease something out.

Yeah. Okay, great. We keep joking about it being behind a paywall and that's never, I know when that happens. Like, so, um, yeah. We'll, we'll figure out a number when we hit a certain number. We'll do a shirtless podcast. If you guys 

Tom: want to see us shirtless doing an episode, get your friends to like, and subscribe and start this call into your 

Jonathan: senator.

Tom: Leave. Yeah. Alright, I'm gonna read this out today. Thank you. Yes. All right. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to No Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms and YouTube graphics and music by bat Ladner. And an extra special thanks to Jen Dornbach and Aquan Williams.

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only. 

Jonathan: Extra special. Thanks. Excellent work there buddy. Thanks. Love you. I love you. Bye.