Front Loader

Back from their vacations, Jonathan & Tom dive straight into the cultural toilet to bid farewell to And Just Like That... in all its messy glory. While villains like Kim Davis crawl back to threaten gay marriage, the boys celebrate the passing of evangelical leader James Dobson. The real heart of the episode comes from Tom's experience at Honcho Campout, sparking a vital conversation about the power of queer joy and why finding your community IRL is more important than ever.

SPECIAL EPISODE LINKS:

• Jonathan moonlights on the RADICAL JOY PODCAST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hrFU8pUL-w
• Podcast friends @ikp.me & @earthtonemuziq 's music video ON THE GAYDAR FREESTYLE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b6wQGywf8
• Honcho Campout: https://www.honchocampout.com/
• Honcho Campout quote: @molotov_cocteau

Transcript

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Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's up? What's up? We did it. We did it. Oh, I've missed you so much, man. It's been, it's been so long. We got, you know, that our timing was our timing. We've been on vacation. I've missed you. I've, I so, so much has changed about you since the last time I saw you. So much changed. 

Tom: This is the, this is the new me.

Jonathan: Well, it's quite possibly the best you've ever looked, so, uh 

Tom: oh. Thanks, 

Jonathan: man. 

Tom: This is the best you've ever looked at that tan. I, I, oh, thanks. Where have you been that you got a tan? 

Jonathan: Oh my God. I, I all over the place. I, I think just, I was at the beach. I was in Long Beach Island. Shout out to Jersey Shore. It was lovely.

Um, I was also in 18 states before that, but I think the, the little bit of color I got. Um, really what's nice is the, the, the burn lines from the tank top that are like, just, just the oval around my armpit and shoulder that look real classy. They look great. So, and you're 

Tom: not, you're gonna tell us, but you're not gonna show us.

Yeah. 

Jonathan: This is a tell don't show kind of [00:01:00] thing. Um, wow. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm working on my resume to be a writer for, uh, HBO. Uh, just to sprinkled item in there a little bit. Tell, don't show. 

Tom: Well, this is just my regular look. Maybe you should explain what I'm looking about now. So there are people who are watching.

Absolutely. 

Jonathan: I will. Not saying we should explain to the people who are watching too. I think, I think that's fair. First of all, this is episode 10 of the No Home Podcast with Jonathan and Tom Jonathan. I'm Tom, 

Tom: are you sure? Yeah. Question. We're recording this episode on Monday, August 25th. We are back in the saddle.

Jonathan: We are back in the saddle and back in the back, back in the, I don't know, I can't back in the, back in the front loader, back in the, um, what does that mean? Whoa. Because you're like a Yeah. You would like a front loader. Yeah. Um, because this is, uh, you're like a, uh, okay. Uh, for the listeners and for the viewers, frankly.

You have a title for this? Look, [00:02:00] this look has a, a, a name. 

Tom: This is my, this is my shady ver daddy look. 

Jonathan: Shady raver Daddy look. Yeah. As, 

Tom: as bequeathed by Qua. Yeah. Um, and I, uh, like to wear this, uh, look when I'm dancing sometimes. Yeah. Uh, just wore it honcho. I just got back from honcho camp out. Uh, I think we talked about that in the last episode.

That that's one of the reasons we were recording early. Yeah. Um, and I can't wait to talk about honchos, so I thought I'd throw on a little look. I love it to fill my heart. So you. 

Jonathan: You did put this look back on. You haven't been wearing this since Pancho, right? No. No. And I'm 

Tom: not gonna keep wearing it. This was just a little tease.

Jonathan: Oh, what a reveal. Wow. Yeah. I love it. All right. I'm 

Tom: gonna slowly take articles off. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. No, what burlesque show. I like this a lot. That's right. And the Patreon kicks in after the vest comes off. Then you gotta pay for the rest. Yeah. Okay. Okay. No, no freebies after the vest. Alright. Alright.

Alright. So, uh, I mean, we'll get into honcho later. We're gonna talk a lot about it, but yeah, it's safe to say, uh, success. Um, this is success. Yeah. Yes, 

Tom: [00:03:00] yes. My heart is full. 

Jonathan: Good. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: I'm glad. Well, we have a lot of other things to get to first before we can do that. It's been so long we, I know that, uh, because of our, uh, our high level production, uh, value.

A lot of listeners might not realize how long we've been apart because we so seamlessly, uh, recorded all those episodes and stayed on a cadence and stayed on schedule. But we did. It's been like a month, man. It's been like three, well, three weeks, right? Three weeks since we've 

Tom: recorded. I haven't really too long Seen you, we haven't talked.

Jonathan: You literally, you stopped by for 90 seconds and we couldn't even, we didn't, we, we didn't have time to even talk. It was, I. 

Tom: Stayed in the car and kept going. She did, you said? Yeah. I had business to attend to. I'm sorry. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Business. I get it. I'm sorry. I get it. No, don't apologize. It just, I'm, well, 

Tom: I, I also, I, I'll be honest, I was like maybe a little, um, carrying a little bit of a grudge.

'cause I, I was scrolling through Instagram recently. Mm. Like before I went to Hans Honcho and I came across, I mean, imagine. My surprise. There you go. Go back to your, 

Jonathan: go back to your script. Make sure you get this set up. Imagine 

Tom: my surprise when I scrolled innocently, was scrolling through Instagram [00:04:00] and I saw some podcast Insta story thing.

Jonathan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And 

Tom: it was you, it was your face and you were podcasting uhhuh with some other bro. 

Jonathan: Uhhuh. I was, 

Tom: I. Was beside myself. And so I want to give you a moment to explain yourself in front of the jury. What were the 

Jonathan: feelings you were feeling? Let's talk about that. Let's talk about, 

Tom: I felt betrayed.

Oh, I felt jealous. 

Jonathan: Oh, 

Tom: I felt stabbed in the back. 

Jonathan: Oh, wow. Okay. So just, uh, just to go back for a me a second and talk about our cadence and our schedule here. This is episode 10. So if you're keeping up last week Tom spent 30 minutes talking about how you can't teach an old dog new tricks and how open relationships are the only way to go.

And just to be clear, Tom, you and I have never had a discussion about being exclusive. Okay. So I might see other podcasts sometimes. All right. Wow. I, I'm emotionally monogamous when it come with you, when it comes to podcasting, but I. [00:05:00] Physically, I'm kind of a slut when it comes to podcasts. Wow. What other 

Tom: podcasts have you done?

Like, how do you want talk about it. Do you need, 

Jonathan: do you wanna do this here now? I mean, it's like, no, no, 

Tom: no. I, I, I'm, I'm kidding though. I was, I was happy to see it. Like, what were you on? What was it? Tell us about it. It 

Jonathan: was, yeah. Radical Joy with James Bullard, who was just such a good dude. Uh, so shout out that podcast.

Radical Joy. Shout out James Bullard. I love James Bullard. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Um, yeah, I guess 

Tom: I was so. Caught up in being betrayed that I didn't even realize who it was. Yeah. You like shout out to James 

Jonathan: Real. It was. It was your fight or flight kicked in. Yes. You were like in a triggered prefrontal cortex shutdown kind of situation.

Yes, yes. Yeah, I get it. I understand. Um, and that's why I. You would not, we would not be able to be open, is what you're saying, right? You, you're trying to, you're trying to close this up on all, all levels. 

Tom: No, no. I, I loved it. I'm kidding. I love to see you out there and spreading the no home of gospel. 

Jonathan: And it was, that was actually like, before we even kicked this off, so I mentioned it, I don't even think that it made it to the air, 'cause I mentioned it to him.

Uh, basically I was asking for [00:06:00] help on how to. You know, produce a podcast. Um, but James has been doing it for a while and he's just, he, he's a dude who like sees, uh, masculinity in a lot of the same ways that, that we do, that we talk about in here. And he, uh, he, you know, has a lot of, he's like an incredible performer, incredible singer, and also a southern dude who like, still, you know, like.

Like me, like likes football, likes to paint his nails, doesn't think that people should be as scared as they are, doesn't think that we should be equating masculinity and strength to fear and, and insular, uh, out grouping. So, um, yeah. James, shout out to James. Um, just to be clear, James, we do not have a future together.

That was a, that was a one off. You are a side piece for me and I, if, if I'm a side piece for you, that's okay too. That's what we're establishing here is it was. A great, a great afternoon we spent together, but I'm a, I'm a, I'm a one man kind of podcaster, so that makes me feel, 

Tom: uh, yeah. Thank you. I, and, and speaking of shout outs, I wanna give a shout out to our boy IKP mm-hmm.

Uh, the infamous king of [00:07:00] positivity, uh, former co-host of the Herbal Tea podcast. Mm-hmm. With my partner Qua, uh, they had that podcast for, uh, five years, I think. Mm-hmm. Um, they really did it. They, they worked hard. It was a really good podcast. It was, um, a podcast promoting the queer music and the rap and hip hop and, um, and really, 

Jonathan: really knowledgeable.

Like deep, deep cut, deep kind of stuff. They, they get into it like it, it's, if you want to, frankly, if you wanna sound cooler at a party and you want to pick up like a, a tidbit or two, you can talk about an artist that it sounds cool to know you should go check out herbal tea. Um, yeah, you can get some good.

You can learn about some cool music that's happening out there that you might not be hearing about in mainstream. And you can, uh, impress people at parties with your eclectic music. Also. Like, what was the name of that with their song that, uh, they had their solo. They, they, they had that. Oh, the 

Tom: one that came out?

Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, shit. I Should, they did the We Post about it, 

Jonathan: but they did, they had a, a, they had sexy ass music video. They did, bro. Bro, that video was hot. 

Tom: It was very hot. 

Jonathan: Um, yeah. PP Quan earth tone looking hot. 

Tom: You can follow. Uh, [00:08:00] I kp.me on Instagram. Uh, so thank you. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Thanks. Thanks pz. 

Jonathan: Yeah, thanks.

Peasy. Um, 

Tom: so, alright. It's time. I'm gonna take these off 'cause it's time to get real. 

Jonathan: Yeah, let's get real. Let's really, 

Tom: it's time to wrap up our, and just like that. Um, just for good. I mean, it's over. I, I want to like, first just want to check in with you emotionally, see how you're doing. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Um, I think that the, the way that I can just, I can best sum up all three of these.

Seasons and year. This whole show is, uh, the viewer wondered what he got himself into. What, what a fever dream. What a what a chaotic, 

Tom: yeah. I mean, it didn't, from our point of view, it didn't disappoint in those last two episodes. That's true. That's true. It 

Jonathan: really brought the heat. It really got back to what it does best.

Which is chaos and it really, and, and it's chaos and, and nothingness. Yeah. It's, it's, it's like almost, [00:09:00] I I almost wonder if it's, if the point was that was like almost Buddhist in the, none of it matters kind 

Tom: of way. I mean, the think pieces that have been read, been written about this piece, I been amazing.

It's. Quoted some of them last week, 

Jonathan: and they're still so good. Like I, every time I read one, I think I wish I had, I wish I was that smart. Yeah. I wish I could be that funny about this because it's, it's crazy that this material as, as. Uh, absurd as it is, is inspiring. Some really impressive writing. Yeah.

Tom: Yeah. So, and so to be clear, we are catching up on episodes 11 and 12. Yeah. Because we, we missed a week, right? 'cause of the way we recorded. So the penultimate, I mean, first of all, what I think is so crazy is that these characters, especially the three main girls. Did not spend very much time in the same room together.

No. And this is the end of a 30 something year story that we have been theoretically following. Um, instead we got, we spent. In the last episode, we spent multiple minutes [00:10:00] meeting brand new 

Jonathan: characters. I mean, and I don't want to, I don't want to go. Uh, well, I will go out of order and I, this, I, I will treat this as though we were writing an episode of event just like that.

And you just 

Tom: whatever 

Jonathan: you want. Yeah, yeah. Timelines don't matter. Context doesn't matter at all. Like, 

Tom: you, you need to make a point. Really. 

Jonathan: We could just talk just around like, around it like this and it would be, uh, it would be an episode basically. Yeah. This, this whole idea that they, they, they re what was the, what the letter say.

They re-shot these episodes. They re-edited these episodes to make it a thing. Yeah. First they clear, they absolutely did not like, the only way that I can maybe, uh, find a reason for these characters to, for, for us to have spent so much time with these random ass side characters is there's gonna be a season four.

We have to establish what we're going into season four with who we're gonna be dealing with. And like, instead it's just like, Hey, here's five new characters. That will never matter. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: It, 

Tom: yeah. 

Jonathan: I don't even, yeah. I 

Tom: think also, you know, I listened to the interest like that. Yeah. Writers room [00:11:00] podcast. They talked about the season finale.

They never called it the series finale when they talked about it. So the, the, it, it's all a lie. They did not know that it was gonna end this way. If anything, maybe they went back in and were shot that last scene of her in the house dancing. Okay. Yeah. And the, maybe, maybe they went in and did like a wrap up, maybe.

I don't even know, because that seemed like a perfectly fine wrap up to the end of. A season. Sure. So I don't necessarily know it was a callback to the way the original series ended. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Which 

Tom: I don't know if you know that. Yeah. 

Jonathan: I, I chose me or something. Like she is that when Yeah. John's calling is kinda like, 

Tom: yeah.

Wow. Good. Good job man. Yeah. See, thanks. You actually see it. You just read. No, I've 

Jonathan: heard about it. Yeah. So. 

Tom: One thing that's always driven me crazy about the end of the last, at the end of the original series. And I, I actually think that the original series sort of like, um, does a good job and, um, it ties up all their, all of their storylines are emotionally satisfying to tie up.

Um, [00:12:00] but, and she has this last voiceover of co course 'cause in the original series she voiced over. She was the voiceover throughout everything. Mm-hmm. She was the glue that tied all the stories together, um, in the guise of writing her column. Mm-hmm. So she, so they did that and she had a nice big monologue to a well-written, nice satisfying monologue to end this series.

And, um, she basically said, you know, you can have all these different kinds of relationships that can take you far from where you've. Ben or bring you back to yourself, whatever. And they're cycling through all the main characters and you're seeing how the different relationships they've all been in have changed who they are.

And um, and, but then she says The most important relationship you'll ever have is the one with yourself, which to me was what the series was about. And a really strong, great point of view. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: And then they end it. But if you just happen to find the great guy to go along with it, that makes it all the better.

And I always personally thought that she should have ended up alone. Yeah. That the series should have ended and she still should have been alone. I was annoyed that they had to make her fall with big, who'd always kind of been kind of a dick to her the whole time. Yeah. Um, I never really [00:13:00] saw them as like, you know, great loves that needed to be together.

Um, so it was a callback to that and I guess that was nice. And I like that. She, I I, I, I like the choice that they had her end. Sure alone I do. Um, so I don't know, but like the fact that like seven minutes before the end of a 30 year series that people have been following with hearts wide open for 30 years, we literally saw poop.

I think it was the first time I've ever seen poop. Oh my God. To me, have you seen poop? 

Jonathan: This was the most. Insane. This was, this was the mo I, mm. This, this was, yet again, I, I mean it is, it is, it is the most on brand, though. They could have been, it is the most true to themselves. They could have been, which is like, they set up this, this Thanksgiving, which they go out of their way to make it chaos and make it not matter.

Like everyone kind of comes in for a minute and whatever. There's crazy stuff happening so that it ends up with the big. The [00:14:00] big me, the Thanksgiving meal. That's also now the end of this entire series is like a couple of the principles and some actual randos. Some first time. First time we're seeing these characters and this show, Hey, this, this, this show.

Here's my stance of what I'm going on. This is a MAGA show. This, this is, this is a, this is MAGA propaganda. It is a, it is for rich white women. Yeah. And everyone else is a punchline. Yeah. Everyone else is a joke. They hate, they hate Gen Z. They hate gay people. They hate black people. They hate the city of New York like this.

None of it. This was, it was Thanksgiving. And not, not a moment. Not a moment of what? Thanksgiving in New York. Like the, like literally the time of year, the season. Yeah. It's like she leaves and walks home in the daytime, in the bright sun after a Thanksgiving meal in New York in November. That's not, that's not, I think there was a palm tree at one point.

Yeah. Green, green, green, green. Just a, a lovely spring day in New York for Thanksgiving. And [00:15:00] this, this. I don't know, gen Z uh, uh, uh, Epcot, you know, that, that, that, that is just a joke. That is like, to me it was, it was the, it was clear, again, confirmation that this is ai, like, like a bot just like knew it was supposed to make a Gen Z or, and it just was like, ah, and, and they called it Epcot.

And then instead of giving that character. Any, any agency at all. We're like, am I gonna make Epcot shit a bunch? We're gonna make Epcot not good with cheese. Why are 

Tom: we meeting Epcot with 20 minutes to go of Sex of the City? Why are we even meeting Epcot? 

Jonathan: Because we need a reason for the toilet to overflow because the writers, and I don't listen to the podcast because I can't, because I can't stomach it out.

They're so self-important and proud of themselves. Yeah. It was like the actual illustration of when you don't deal with the shit in your life, it will eventually back up and overflow like.

Tom: They did say that on the podcast. Yes, they did. You know what I thought was so funny is that she paid, what's his name, probably a shit ton of money to do her garden, [00:16:00] and he's just finishing and she's like, you know what? You know what? Let's redo it. You know what? 

Jonathan: Take it all away, let it, let it overgrow and let all the rats come back that I'm terrified of that.

I don't, that is the reason I didn't want to be out here in the first place. Just let it, all this, yeah, send it back to nature. Let it let the house do what it wants with it. It's so fucking insane. It's insane. We, um, oh, I will say, here's one thing that, that the, the positive takeaway from me is, uh, that I realized I.

I am still an optimist, as jaded and as angry as I might be, and as tired as I might be and as disappointed in so many things. I might be. I still, to the very last moment, I'm not kidding, they, they were shooting her so weird in the house. They were doing like weird through the glass, weird angles. I was like, are we, are we messing with reality here?

Are we gonna, are we gonna do something? Are we gonna like. I don't know what, 'cause you've got two minutes left, but are we gonna do something that like, wraps this up and makes it make sense? Yeah. You know, is she in a psych ward? What's going on? Like, is something gonna happen [00:17:00] here? And until the credits rolled, I really did have, like, there was a, there was part of me that thought, they're gonna do it, they're gonna, they're gonna stick this landing.

And of course they didn't. It was nothing. It was, but. But it made me feel better about myself to know that I still have some optimism in there, that I could look at something. I could still have hope even in the midst, even in the midst of that overflowing toilet of a series. Oh my God. 

Tom: Well, I wanna say that I listened to, um, there's a new podcast on the New York Times.

Uh, the New York Times puts out, they have great podcasts, by the way. Um, a new one called Cannonball with Wesley Morris. He's a culture. Um. I'm not sure if he's a culture editor. He is certainly a culture writer. And, um, he put out a, uh, a, an episode where he interviewed, uh, a cultural culture writer, a woman, I don't remember her name.

I should have came prepared with that information. But this is no homo. You have to google your own information. 

Jonathan: Yeah, 

Tom: so I'm sorry, Google it. But this, it, it, I wanted to present the other side. I wanted to not be just totally mean. [00:18:00] Um, and they are both fans of the show. And she made two interesting points, wa, which was, you know, she watched the show.

She's a little bit older than me, us, but me, um, and she watched the show when she was young and in New York and it was like her bible and it was her, um, you know, it was aspirational. It was, it was, she came from a very conservative family, this particular writer on the podcast. Um, and it was her, um. It was a guidebook on how to be a woman, how to be an adult woman, and how to, you know, uh, be in New York City and date and all of that.

And so she is very connected to the show and she is now middle aged, like the women in the show. Mm-hmm. Uh, she's a few years younger than the woman in the show, so it was even more aspirational and she was watching it. Mm-hmm. The way you always look up to people a little older and, um, she. Said that what she felt was when the show made her uncomfortable, it was because she was, it was like a mirror holding up her own age to herself.

And so she challenged the viewers, the listeners, the [00:19:00] haters, do you really hate the show or do you hate yourself getting older? I would say, and that made me think, because I, I follow that same pattern as she did when I first watched the show. I was mm-hmm. You know, um, younger. But I know that you don't, you didn't, and so you don't necessarily fit that bracket.

Um, the other point that the, I think the, the podcaster made, um, Wesley Morris was do you hate the show or do you hate middle aged women? Um, and that one hit, um, and I'm, I'm trying to wrestle with it, um, because I don't think, I hate middle aged women. I think middle aged women are my favorite women, to be honest.

Um, so I, I, I'm not. Totally sure. But I, I just want to like be fair and Okay. You know, bring up the other side. So I was curious what your thoughts were to all that. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's talk about all of that because, uh, I think that the show hates middle aged women. I think that it does such a poor job of giving them any, any, anything, any, any ability to reflect, any ability to learn or grow.

These are 50-year-old women, right? Like 50 [00:20:00] something for young 50-year-old women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who can't fucking possibly learn a new thing? Who can't possibly Bob? They fucking, they make fun of. Nuns who are tourists. They make fun of everyone. They don't learn anything. They don't do anything. They, they didn't grow.

They're not aspirational at, they're fucking filthy rich too. Yeah. They're all ridiculously rich. Yeah. For 20 years in New York, I think twice in my, I know two people. I've known two people in 20 years who have an apartment close to any one of theirs. Yeah. All, all three, four, all five. All of them are 0.01%.

That, that's not, that's not a mirror to anyone in society. That's a mirror to the 0.01% and these that, okay, so, oh, and getting older, uh, I don't. Uh, the, the, it's like the opposite of aspirational to me. This is like a, watching these women, these characters is like a warning sign for aging because they don't learn anything.

They give up on growing. They give up on learning. Like the, the, the growth [00:21:00] is, are you gonna have a man or not have a man? That's the only question that the entire show asks is, are you gonna have a man or not have a man? And to me, I would say. I would give more credit to middle-aged women and say, there's a lot more going on.

In fact, this writer herself who is, uh, a podcaster and journalist and whatever, like do it and like doing what she wants to do and making it and like pushing herself and growing and learning and writing things down, like not. It's, ah, I, ugh. I can't, I just, 

Tom: well, we're done. That's it. 

Jonathan: That's it. 

Tom: It's over. We have to say goodbye for all.

Oh. For all of our listeners who have really just afforded this section with the caution. We're done. We're gonna, we're gonna take a moment, we're gonna take a breath. We may replace it with a different show. We're in discussions. Yeah. I don't know. We're meeting with our team. We'll, we'll let you guys know if, if anybody has suggestions of what you want to hear us talk about in, in place of it, just like that.

We'll. You know, hit us up. Yeah. Maybe I'm just still in 

Jonathan: the anger stage of denial. Maybe I'm just so sad that it's going away, [00:22:00] that I'm just, or not, not in grief, not the, not of denial. I'm still, I've moved from denial into anger. Yeah. Yeah. Is that, yeah. Do you have music playing? Okay. It's cool. 

Tom: It's the, it's on the street.

I the windows open. Cool. 

Jonathan: You know why? Because it's New York and that happens in New York. Their version of New York is the cleanest, fucking most sterile New York that has ever existed. Also, it's spring and November. I can't, 

Tom: yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tom: Well, I can say that I, my personally was, I was tempered at the loss of, and just like that with the announcement on the New Heights podcast that my girl, Taylor Swift has T 12, her 12th album coming out.

Yeah. October 3rd. I think it's October 3rd. All right. Life of a showgirl. I am. Exciting. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Because you know, I'm a bit of a fan. A bit of a fan. 

Jonathan: I was bummed that we couldn't get her, I was hoping we could get the announcement on NoMo. I know. I do feel like if anyone else, it's not us is gonna get it, it should be new.

Um Yeah, yeah. For Will. Yeah. It's exciting. I don't actually [00:23:00] know. Um, I know that it's been announced and I've heard. I've seen a couple little, like blips of people wondering if they found Easter eggs. Do you know much about what, like what's out there? What is, what has she given so far? You know, 

Tom: I, I, I, I, there's a lot.

I, I don't want to like spend too much time 'cause there's a thousand in one podcast that have done it. Okay. But the one that I think is the most exciting potentially is, um, do you know about the sourdough? Mm-hmm. Okay. So she talked about she has a lot of free time now that she's not on the tour anymore and she's been getting back into her hobbies.

She's really been into making sourdough. And she said, um, she talked a lot about sourdough and she said she spends 60% of her time thinking about sourdough and um, it's about to be Super Bowl 60 and Mr. Sourdough or something sourdough is the team mascot for whatever team the Super Bowl is happening at this year.

I thought maybe you'd be able to tell me about this. I don't 

Jonathan: know. So a sourdough, I don't know. Okay. 

Tom: Yeah, there's a, like a sourdough man or something that is the team mascot for, is it San [00:24:00] Diego once again? No, homo coming in with the facts. Yeah. Coming in hot with facts, strong opinions on the weekly research.

So there is a lot of theory out there that she was hinting to her fans that she's gonna be the performer at the show. Football. Okay. 

Jonathan: Okay. 

Tom: Um, did you get anything I'm 

Jonathan: looking at? No. Uh, let's see. Um, has not, oh yeah. So. Okay, we've speculated to perform, but it's in, uh, no, keep going. I don't have it. I don't have it yet.

Say something else. 

Tom: Anyways. Whenever, whenever the home team is at the, at the stadium. Because they always announced the stadium right before. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that's kind of exciting. Um, and she kept flashing 47. That kept coming up a lot. So there's, lots of people are wondering what the 47 means. I don't really know about all that.

And then colors and stuff like orange is the big color for this album. Um. It, it's supposed to be a shorter album. It's supposed to be. It's with the producers who did, um, like 1989, her bigger Pop Hips, Uhhuh. Okay. So she's not with, um, what's his name? [00:25:00] Um, Aaron, uh. Is it not Aaron Dressler and, um, oh man.

Come in, in hot with the facts. Um, sorry guys, just, but not the producer she's been working with. She's not gonna be working with the next album, which a lot of people think it's time for her to make that shake up. It's supposed to be a album of Pop Anthems. Um, so I'm really excited about it. I'm a bit huge fan.

Jonathan: Okay, so just I, yeah, I did track it down. Um, and I didn't never know, I never knew this at all, but this, uh, so the Super Bowl's in San Francisco, which is the home of the 49 ERs. Okay. And I guess that the, the gold miner guy who is the 49 er, uh, is called Sourdough Sam. Okay, here we go. See, I was 

Tom: right. 

Jonathan: Yeah.

Yeah. You nailed it. 

Tom: I nailed it. 

Jonathan: Well researched deep cuts. People, everyone, people, the people know where their bread is buttered. They know where to come for the hot takes and the quick news. They know. Yeah, yeah. The cutting edge of the zeitgeist, the tip of the zeitgeist spear right here. Right here. Yeah.

Um, I knew that that happened, but um, I, uh, [00:26:00] was barely keeping up. I, my travels for the last three weeks have been so chaotic. They've been. All over the, uh, all over the southeast. Um, and I was like couch surfing with, you know, family and friends and, and then family vacations. And it was, it's been a blast, but it has just been like, my, my last tonight will be the first time I've slept in my bed for like weeks and I'm so excited to just be home and like, relax for a minute before, um, you know, school starts and stuff.

And I know we're gonna talk about, uh, honcho in a, in a moment, so I don't wanna get there yet. But I, there was, and I also know that was only like a. What, three day? Is that a three night? 

Tom: Uh, five, yeah. Four nights. Four. Four nights. Four real days. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Okay. Um, but throughout my travels I often would be in the middle of doing something.

Um. Incredibly parental, like, like, I don't know, like changing P sheets in the middle of the night, you know, for whatever. Like, or helping a child through something and thinking like, I wonder what's going on at Honcho right now. I wonder what the, what the boys are up to in the woods. You know, [00:27:00] 

Tom: you know, I can't say this for my friends, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some p sheets changed honcho, 

Jonathan: to be honest with 

Tom: you.

Jonathan: You know, I thought about if my, if my brain hadn't been such mush today, I really wanted to put together a list of like. Five things and just like read them off and we had to guess which ones people could guess, which vacation it happened on. And P Sheet. P Sheets was gonna be one of 'em. 

Tom: That's amazing. I think it's a toss up.

Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Well, I want to, before we get into Honcho, 'cause I, I do have a lot I wanna say about it, but I want to just like, you know, we'd like to talk. Touched on some current events and yeah. One that's been bothering me, uh, is, uh, the fact that, uh, Kim Davis is our, uh, Kentucky clerk friend who's been just a war on the history of America for yeah, a long, long time now.

10 more than 10 years. Um, and she is once again challenging the Supreme Court decision from 2015, [00:28:00] uh, obergfel that. Gave, uh, gays the right to marry. Um, and she is asking the Supreme Court to take it up again. Uh, what's, and first of all, and Kim Davis, I wanna point out, has been married four times to three different husbands.

So, but this is the, um, she's the person who's deciding what Yeah. Makes sense for her marriage. 

Jonathan: She's a fucking troll. She's a, she's by definition troll. She's awful. 

Tom: She, she is. She is the universe showing you when you are ugly and evil in your heart. Yeah. It actually manifests in your face. Yeah. And your body.

And I don't, I 

Jonathan: don't want, yeah. I don't want it to sit in some kind of like, what's the word for like being mean to people for the way they look? Like superficial, but like the real, like a bigger word for her. Whatever. But like, she looks 

Tom: that way. 'cause she's evil, but yeah, she's a bad, she's like bad. Feel comfortable saying that she's 

Jonathan: rotting from the inside and you can see it in her.

Totally. On the outside. Same thing like 

Tom: Mitch McConnell suffers from that as Donald Trump. They all do. Um. So she, um, and the, the problem here is that Alito and Thomas to the Supreme Court Justices, when they struck down, uh, Roe v. Wade in that decision, hinted at the fact more than [00:29:00] hinted, basically said, bring us back Obergfel.

And that can be revisited along with some other stuff. 

Jonathan: Mm-hmm. Um. 

Tom: Uh, so I'm fucking nervous. As you know, I am engaged. Uh, Quan and I celebrated our one year anniversary being engaged. We got engaged at Honcho last year. Yeah. Um, we're in the process of slowly planning our wedding. Um, and uh, this is now on the chopping block.

They're gonna, if it does get struck down, it'll get sent back to the States. So I should be okay in New York state, but that isn't quite the point. I wanna be legally married in the whole country. Yeah. I don't want to, when I cross state lines, um. I mean, I guess my marriage would still be recognized, but I just, it's like the principle of the thing.

For sure. I want my marriage. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I want my fucking marriage to mean the same as my sister's fucking marriage. It's insane 

Jonathan: to think that it's not, that it wouldn't, that it would, that that would be, that that's, we would regress to some kind of place where like that's a even on the table that Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's absurd. 

Tom: Yeah. So the, you know, four of the five justices have to agree to take up. The case, um, and, and, and hundreds of case get submitted to the Supreme Court and they [00:30:00] take only a very small one to 3% of them are even taken up each year. So that is in our favor. They did go back to her and her lawyers and ask questions for clarification, which is a sign that they're considering it.

That's scary. Four of the five have to say yes to taking it. We know that three are on our side. Uh, so we only need one of the others to, uh. We, we, we need, um, wait, what is, is my Wrath Math right here? At least Thomas and Alito will be a yes. Yeah. So if three of the other two, two of the other three say Yes, we're in trouble.

And then of course if they do take it, if five of the nine. Vote. Yeah. Then it goes away. So I'm just like, uh, my blood has been boiling for that, about this. Yeah. Um, and I, uh, just needed to get it off my chest. I, if this happens, I will never forgive friends and family that have voted for Donald Trump.

Never. Um, well, the 

Jonathan: good news is, yeah, we might be losing, uh, marriage equality, but at least we've gone full socialism now and we are investing in company the, the, the, [00:31:00] uh. America is taking a stake in companies, so that's fucking socialism. So we're just, all the things that we were so scared of doing with a progressive leader.

We're doing them and we're also losing rights as we go. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So great work. I did, I have heard. I mean, and I am a hundred percent with you on all of that. And it's fucking stupid and it's, and awful and, and dumb and. Kim Davis is a horrible person. I did hear, uh, Rachel Maddow say that she is, she's hearing that this isn't really the winner, that Obergfel might, it won't be the case.

So the, the, the, the good, the possible good news here. The, the, the, the optimism is that. Yeah, it could absolutely be on the chopping block, but this is not the case that will do that. So it it, it will, it will maybe start generating others. And that might be, but it might not come up in time. You know, things might, we could have moved beyond this.

Um, people could die. People with whatever changes, like, well, and it's 

Tom: word on the street is that Trump is like, his days are numbered, bro. Which I'm so fucking excited about. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, uh, so that's [00:32:00] hopeful, but I mean, it's not like JD Vance is gonna come in. It's gonna be better, so, oh, 

Jonathan: yeah. I mean, and that guy is licking his chops.

That guy is so ready to be president. I love it. He's just like on, he's literally taking vacation until he becomes president. He's taking his family all over the world. Yeah. Did you read that bullshit about him, uh, getting the whoever, the lake. The lake, yeah. Raising the, 

Tom: he's such a laughable buffoon, though.

And doesn't have nearly a 10th of the charisma that Trump has. Yeah. That I'm, I'm sort of excited about him becoming president and I think ul it'll be a disaster. It'll be bad. Yeah. But it might ultimately be good. It might hasten the fiery end of this collective, uh, amnesia that half of our countries, I hope.

Jonathan: Well, one step, uh, in all, all of this, that it goes together well and whatever. But no, I stand behind all of this. I get a little squeamish for what I'm about to say based on what we just said, but James Dobson died this past week. And, uh, good riddance. I don't really like to speak Ill of the dead. I feel like there's, I got some achiness about that, but also like what a piece of shit.

Yeah. Um, and if you, [00:33:00] I don't know if you, if you don't know James Dobson, he's a evangelical, although I learned today. Never an ordained minister. He is never been ordained. He was never ordained, but he was like a leader of the conservative. So you and I 

Tom: are more minister than James Dobson? Yes. You and I both 

Jonathan: are more credentialed in the, in church in ministry than James Dobson.

Wow. But he like his kind of first big thing on the scene. I dunno if you ever was a, a dare to discipline. He was a, he was a, he was a pediatric. Uh, he was a doctor and like a professor of pediatrics for a while, and then ended up going like, full, full religion and full evangelical. And it, he was like a real old school, like Dare to Discipline was a book that basically like encouraged spanking and beating your kids and like, was real, like the man makes the money, the wife makes a dinner, the kids listen, you know?

Yeah. Like he, he's a real, like, uh, uh, family, families first. Is that the one which like a, like a, um. Uh, uh, traditional family values, kinda bullshit, you know? Yeah. Uh, even like Jimmy Carter tried to do a, uh, uh, uh, what was it called? The, uh, conference on Families and the, uh, at the White House in the 80, 80, 79, [00:34:00] 80, something like that.

And, uh, it was, it was a diverse group of families that were gonna get together and they were gonna talk about families in America and James Dodson and his fucking. Cronies just fully opposed. It like were just like they, they were into conversion therapy. They were into abstinence only. True love weights, which I don't know if like that made it to the north, but in the south man, virgin's a sunder because we all signed true love weights, promises for abstinence until we got married.

Which is, which is awesome because like the infant mortality rates that we've talked about before in red states is like. Through the roof. So abstinence only really, really works great. I will say this, I learned this today 'cause I wanted to find some of these facts about, uh, James Dodson and really like, be able to pinpoint what a piece of shit he was please.

Um, one thing that I blew my mind the day before, uh, Ted Bundy was executed, James Dobson interviewed him in a televised interview and gave him a chance to. Explain his side of things and like, and went on record later saying that Ted Bundy should be forgiven. Like was a, was an advocate for a serial rapist murderer, like [00:35:00] 30 women that he is accredited, I don't know, whatever.

Like this guy who is all evangelical, all ministry. What 

Tom: was his reasoning? 

Jonathan: I don't, I don't know. 'cause who cares about women? I don't know. Yeah. Like, yeah. I feel like I, this is not words that I've ever heard him say, but it, it feels like he's one of those, like, a wife can't be raped because a wife, by the nature of, by the definition of a wife, uh, can't, cannot say no to her husband.

So like when, like, a wife can't be raped. Uh, so I just feel like he, he, he. D deeply thought of women as second class citizens. Certainly thought of gay people as second class citizens. Certainly thought of children as not citizens. Like he was just a real piece of shit. And so good riddance. James Doon.

James Ridden. Fuck yeah. Yeah. James 

Tom: Dobson and it just like that. 

Jonathan: What a week, man. Yeah. We're a week. Whew. I think, I think things are turning around. I think this is a good sign. 

Tom: Alright, well in that, in that case, I'm just gonna unzip a little bit. Ooh. I, I wanna, I wanna talk about honcho. I want to, um, I want to thank the, [00:36:00] the, the, the, the guys that, that throw honcho.

Um, uh, it's four guys and they're, uh, three of them are the DJs and one of them is like, I guess. Like the managing director or the really the brains behind the operation. Um, but they all wear many hats to put together. Honcho Camp out, uh, happens once a year in, um, at, uh, four Quarters Sanctuary, uh, which is a campground at the, and it's sort of like south the, the, the southern border of Pennsylvania.

Uh. In the, in the center of the state. Okay. Um, you actually like driving from New York. You drive into Maryland and then circle back in. That's how close it is to the border of Maryland. Okay. Um, and this is my third honcho. This was their 10th, so congrats. Happy 10th anniversary. Yeah, happy 10th to Honcho.

Um, it's, uh, this year I heard, I, I heard different numbers. Um. I think the first year I was there, it was 1500 people. I heard as many as 2,500 people this year. But in no homo fashion, that's not a research fact. Somewhere between 1,520 500. Cool. It [00:37:00] definitely felt bigger. Um, it's a, it's a, it's a music festival first and foremost.

It's queer. Um, but so it's not just gay. There are lesbians, there are trans, there are. And they've done a really good job. Um. Honcho sort of famously, a couple years ago, um, five, seven years ago, took a look at itself and realized that it was mostly well off white, rich gay men who are coming to this festival.

And they realized that that was a problem and they went out of their way to figure that out. And they now have something called the Queer Fam Fund, which is, um, something you can donate to. And every year they, um, pay for, um, queer, uh. People to come to this festival and they get, uh, they get travel there, they get housing.

When they get there, they get a meal plan. Cool. All they have to do is bring their looks and their good times. Cool. And, um, it's, we talked last week about like community. Mm-hmm. And, um. I think what's so special about Honcho is [00:38:00] it's not, you know, I said it's a, it's a music festival first, and it, it is, that's why it started.

They do an amazing job curating DJs. Um, it, it also, the festival keeps getting bigger every year in terms of like, it gets better and bigger. They keep. Making new surprises. There was a library this year of like queer culture. There was a whole new, it looked like something out of Burning Man. There was a tent, it was like a cabaret space that they've never had before.

So at night you could leave the main dance floor and walk up a field. So this cabaret space with a bar, you could buy pizza there. And there were, um, drag performers and cabaret performers. Nice. They, and it was just like outta nowhere. They had this new. And, and, and it's also like imperceptibly. Um, like the check-in process every time I go is just better.

The food situation and how they handle that is just better. I, I couldn't even tell you why it's better. It just feels like it's getting better. It's like, yeah, and I think the reason is, is that it's. Run with intention. Yeah, it's created [00:39:00] with intention. It's not, I don't think it's a, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's not a money making opportunity.

I hope that they're breaking even. I hope that they're making money so that they can keep sustaining their self. Yeah. But what I mean by that is it's, this is not a profitable Yeah. Thing that they're trying to grow. They're trying to grow it with intention. They're not trying to like keep growing it. So it just, because it, the number one thing about Honcho for me is it's a community.

Um, and so as much as you know, I love Burning Man and I didn't get to go to. Burning Man this year we went to Honcho instead, but Burning Man is 80,000 people. Wow. And I do sometimes feel community there within the groups that I'm with. But at Honcho you feel the community as a whole. And, um, you know, you come back and Insta, my Instagram for the last week has been full of all these posts of people like life changing posts, and, and they, they couldn't believe the connections that they felt.

And I'm like, I'm getting emotional just talking about it. Like, dude, it is. I think it's one of the most important things happening, certainly in the United States, if not the [00:40:00] world right now for, um, the L-G-B-T-Q scene. It is, it, it creates ripples that I think go beyond the five days of the festival. I feel really like lucky to have been a part of it, uh, and to share it with my friends and.

It's just really special. I can't believe I'm crying about it. Like, that's awesome, man. I sound like an idiot. Uh, no, 

Jonathan: no, no, no. This is, I mean, I guess we didn't announce that we were moving into Vulner Bros, but now, you know, 

Tom: we're we're, yeah. 

Jonathan: It's just like we're, we're just fully in Vulnerables now, so go for it, man.

Yeah, yeah. 

Tom: It's, it's, I, I wanna read something that someone posted on Instagram. Um, the handle is Molotov Cocteau, um, like John Coto. Uh. Queer Utopia isn't inherent. It's an idea and a moving one that is built through struggle and tension and community, blood and sweat. The Honcho Campo is a beautiful and complex manifestation of a thousands year old, deeply human ritual of people dancing way past their limits to loud music with one another.

We stretch our senses and expand [00:41:00] the limits of our sensibilities, and we freak out collectively. This is surreal and somber, beautiful and painful, and we experience it together. It's not meant to be fun all the time. Sometimes it's difficult. Sometimes it's both or neither. We are all vulnerable and our emotions are high spinning in every direction because we are hyperextending our bodies and minds to grasp at something beyond what we feel every day.

We process big and complicated emotions and physical, social, spiritual feelings with one another. Intense feelings of belonging mixed with profound feelings of loneliness. Pleasure is paramount, but so are its opposites. Somewhere in the churn, we lean on each other and we learn about each other. I'm so proud to be a part of this ritual, ritual, to be able to access it and play my little part that hit home for me.

I wanted to share it. Um, it is hard. It's hard being there. It's camping. It's, it's fucking humid as hell. It's muddy. It rains. Sometimes you have to walk up hills to eat. You have to walk down the hill. You have to, you walk across the suspension bridge to go to the night party. You have to walk. Back across the suspension bridge when you're not sober to return [00:42:00] home, like it's hard on your body to be there.

At times. You feel lonely, at times you feel connected, but I think that this guy hit on something like, you know, dancing around the fire and banging and making music is something we've been doing like from the the getting. Yeah. Yeah. I think that if you are not finding a chance and a way to do this in your life right now, bro, sis, you are missing out.

You are living your life wrong if you are not. Dancing with your friends into the night, at least once a month. You're doing life wrong. End of story. You are doing life wrong. That's my soapbox there. 

Jonathan: Yeah. I like it. I mean, and, and I agree. I think we kind of talked about it, um, uh, recently. Um. And it intention is just makes things be like, intention is the point and work is the point.

Right? Like any, like literally. And I feel like now I feel like a real dad and a real old man, but it has, it has become clear to me because I say this like plenty now and I say it to my kids. I'm trying to find new ways to say it because I don't wanna sound just like an old man, but like. It is [00:43:00] true.

Anything worth having is worth working for. You know, like the old adage, like, it really is like, we're in a world now and I'm a, I'm guilty of this all the time. Like, I love a potion that's gonna fix something. I love a, I love a quick fix, but the truth is, and I just have to acknowledge it, like time and work are the ways that things get, get better.

The, the good things that come, come from time and work. And it's not, you can't, I think that that's like the gay community is not a. Perfectly inclusive. It's not perfect in any way. It's, it's still made up of individuals, which means sometimes people aren't gonna get along. Sometimes there's be a difference of opinions.

There might be, there are assholes in every group. You know, there are bad people in every group, but it is a group. And like, this sounds like this is a, you know, specific kind of, uh, symptom of this, but it's a group that, that had to work with intention to exist. Yeah. To, to, to earn the right to exist and to earn the right to be together in, in community.

And so like, as opposed to. And this is like such a a, I guess, kinda like root thesis of no [00:44:00] homo and I'm, if I haven't said it a bunch yet, I will continue to say it a bunch. It will be a thing that we probably talk about a whole lot. But like that is, to me, that's what I'm, it is so clear to me what I'm watching happen with the, uh, like straight white, cis, middle, upper class community, like the, the unbothered community in America hasn't had to work.

It has chosen not to work for community because you can, you can find a, a sports team. You can find a a, a church. You can find a group. You can find a, there are places to go that you can find like-minded people where you can support each other. But so many versions that my folk have of that. Yeah. Are, are soft and easy or they're, or they're just like intentionally exclusionary.

They're, they're exclusive on purpose to keep out anyone else so that you're, so that the only intention you're putting into it is not learning and not growing. And I think that that's become so clear. Like when you, when you see all this shit happening now, people getting So Kim Davis, like, what a fucking soft, weak, nothing of a person.

Yeah. Because this is the, her, the biggest problem in her [00:45:00] life is that other people are in love. Yeah. Like what a fucking soft life you have. Yeah. Sad that that is the hardest thing that you're dealing with is other people being happy. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: What a miserable life to leave. Yeah. And it's, we, I don't know, we talked about, like, I know that some, like a comment came through.

We can talk about it if we want like the, after talking about monogamy last week. 'cause I do think it's interesting to, to notice like there are clearly we are, look, we have lots of very uh, uh. Quickly researched, hot takes, but we, we don't speak for any full group. You know, like there, there are differences of opinions and different perspectives and I know that there was like some, uh, feedback about monogamy within the gay community and 

Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We got, we got a response from someone and if it was a thoughtful response, it's something I've heard before. Um, you know, there's a. It, there is so much, um, open relationships in the gay community that it is a common refrain to hear from single gay guys that all of the guys that are in, uh, open relationships are preventing them from meeting, uh, meeting someone and, and finding a relationship that we're [00:46:00] making it harder by being qua and I are making it harder by being a couple that's open.

Yeah. Um, and I get it. I guess when I was single, I maybe like felt that once or twice. It was never something I really hung my hat on. I don't actually believe it myself. Um, I think. Uh, that it's hard to find a relationship. I can't speak for straight people, I can't speak for you, but I think it's hard to find a real relationship as a gay guy.

Anyways, so many of us are. Um, I think that this is getting better actually. I think, I think I, I hope what I'm about to say is gonna be ultimately a relic of the past. You see, you, you see how young people are in middle school and high school now. It gives me hope, but so many of us my age, um, grew up hiding who we were and not being able to practice being in relationships in high school.

Yeah. When you were Yeah. And um, we didn't have a, we didn't have older people to learn how to be a gay couple from, so we're making it up and we're struggling and or we were fat when we were little. And now we get older and we find that suddenly because we have a beer belly we're attractive and we don't know what to, [00:47:00] I'm talking about myself.

We don't know what to do with that attention 'cause it's new and it's weird. I'm in my head, I'm a fat kid that no one would think is hot. Um, and so I think that there's a lot of like. Uh, I, I'll put it this way, I could not successfully find a relationship until I hit, until I was in like my early forties.

And I think the reason why is I had a lot of fucking work to do on myself. And so I, and it wasn't because other guys were together and, and open and open relationships, they were not the ones keeping me from finding a relationship just 'cause I needed to do work on myself. Um, and. I, I also think it can be sometimes where you live.

I think New York City is, um, notorious if you're gay to everybody's looking over your shoulder. If you're in a relationship with someone in New York City, many times the guys are looking over their shoulder to see who else is out there. Yeah. When I'm in a gay bar talking to people in New York City, oftentimes the person I'm talking to is looking over my shoulder to see who else is at the bar.

That's better to talk to. So I think that there's other cities in the world and in this country that aren't like that. [00:48:00] Um, it's hard, it's hard to meet someone, but, um, I hear that point and, um, yeah, 

Jonathan: I think it's interesting, like, uh, and I, I think that is a very valid way to look at it. I think we can certainly acknowledge this, this point, and I just realized like, there is kind of an economy here and this person is like kind of highlighting an, an economy of cultures because in the stray community in the, in the, in the monogamous, in a, in a monogamous community, yeah.

Like. The, the hots, the hots link up and then they're out. So then you're grading on a curve. So like once the tens, the tens all wife up and go, yeah. Then nine is the best. And then the nines all wife up and go. And eventually you're like, as you're a solid six and you're trying to feel good about yourself, you're like, great, I, I'm, I'm cool.

I'm gonna find us spot here. But if you're in a community where, yeah, the nines and tens bought back in all the time and are still available, then you, when you're, when you're walking around as a solid six, it's like a hard place to be. 

Tom: Totally. It's also like. Where, where are you looking for the relationship?

Like Scruff and Grindr are not the answer. Yeah. Yeah. You can't get mad that guys in relationships are on Scruff and Grindr. Scruff and Grindr is [00:49:00] not people looking for relationships. It's just not. Yeah. And like certain bars on certain nights and certain parties are not people looking for relationships.

Yeah. Um, but they, they are out there, but you can't. Necessarily vilify a gay guy that you meet, that you like, and then find out that, and they're, and they're expressing an interest back, and then you find out that they have a partner. Like, I can understand why that's frustrating, but that person's not doing anything wrong either.

Um, I think we just all have to be upfront. I try to be upfront with people that I meet, that I have a partner as quickly as I can in the conversation, and I don't get upset if that ends the conversation. And that happens all the time. And I, I totally get it. And if that does happen, I try to spin it into a friendship at least, you know.

Um. But that's beautiful. Yeah. It, it's, it is, it's, 

Jonathan: I like the idea of like, you, of, of picking someone up and then getting like, turned down because you're wifed up and then being like, yeah, but we can still be friends, right? Like, let's do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's, let's, I like it. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do like it.

I, yeah, I wasn't kidding. I like it. Um, I don't know. Is it time [00:50:00] for our homework? Uh oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. Did we come up with it? We didn't come with a name. No, we 

Tom: don't have a name, but we have another section. 

Jonathan: I think that it's, I think that that's fine too because we, I think that one thing that we've done well to stay on brand is workshop names for things on the go.

Yes. So we, we've got, we've got n. Assignments for the no homies. We're looking at no homey work maybe. No, no, no. Home missions. Is that what it was? Yeah. We 

Tom: want, we wanna try and be more proactive. Yeah. We wanna be less complainy about the world. Right. Um, less angry old men. This was your idea. I think it's a good one.

So do you wanna share our first homework assignment? 

Jonathan: Yeah, sure. Uh, so, um, and it, this was actually inspired because people have been kind of doing this. So we would love, uh, no homies out there and spread the word. Uh, if you are a, uh, straight. Gay combo of friends, if you have, if your best friend is not, is, is if you're straight and your best friend's gay or vice versa, or you have a group that is a, a, a mixed sexual preference.

Uh, tag us in pictures. If you're posting [00:51:00] pictures on the internet, if you're posting on Instagram, if you've got reels or pictures, uh, tag us because one of the things that I think we are, uh, I think we agree on is like the, the real. IRL ness of all of this. Like, get in real life, get in and do it. You know, and I, I, there's definitely like a little bit of a, a mirror looking back at us when we're on, we're doing a podcast on Zoom and then putting it online.

But you know, that's because we've been friends for near 20 years and this is the, the. This is the easiest way to edit this. So like we, I think that we both feel strongly for, for myself, and I would be, I would, uh, encourage any listeners and no homies out there to also like, get out there with your friends.

Go, go hang out with your friends. Go, go dance around fire or be on your feet and be active with your friends. And if you take pictures, tag us. We wanna see who you are and we want to shout you out, 

Tom: especially if you're a straight and a gay best friend. Yeah, we wanna see that picture. Yeah. 

Jonathan: We actually had a couple people, uh, um, um, one, one group of one, one.

Couple of friends, uh, recreate our, uh, cover art pose. So feel free to do [00:52:00] that. Feel free to show us, send your, your rendition of our, uh, cover art. I love it. Remember when, uh, it was pride, right? We were out and we were just hanging out and I, I. Just had my head like, leaned over on you and Quan was like, you guys are doing it.

You're doing the pose. 

Tom: His mind was blown. 

Jonathan: Yeah. He was like, 

Tom: oh my God, 

Jonathan: it's, 

Tom: it's right here. This is it. Alright. You know what it's time for? I do. Who would you fight? Who would you fight? Pow. Pow. Whoa. A remix. Whoa. Is a honcho remix. 

Jonathan: Drop the bass. I like it. Yeah, I like it. Thank you. 

Tom: Alright, I'll go, I'll go first.

Okay. Go for it. Yep. Um, uh, I, I, I, I want to fight the people. You know that it's a hard knock life remix thing that people. The, it's like a rap song, but it's from Annie it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's like popular for people to use that on Instagram and TikTok. And they do like, oh, okay. They, they play it and they like, they do like this and then they like, they point and then like words come up, 

Jonathan: Uhhuh 

Tom: and then they point, and then like words come up.

Jonathan: Uhhuh, Uhhuh.[00:53:00] 

Tom: I don't need moment. 

Jonathan: What is that? No, back up off your mic. When you're gonna be mad about another thing, another trending. 

Tom: What are people doing? What is that supposed to be? 

Jonathan: I love how much you hate viral trends. I love how much you hate viral trends and the Jet 

Tom: two holiday one, like. 

Jonathan: I thought that you were, I thought you wanted to fight Jay-Z for a second.

I thought you were talking about no hard dog life, like the, the song. Um, no, 

Tom: I'm talking about grown adults that are like, like, like dancing and pointing, and words come up and they think they're being cute, and it's like, I'm just, I think people need to read books and people need to go to parks. Like what are, what's the fall of society?

Jonathan: Get on your phones and go to the park. Go to the park with your friends.[00:54:00] 

Tom: What's yours? Who 

Jonathan: are you fighting this week? I'm gonna fight all. BMW owners, and I will give a caveat that is clearly not true. I think I know two people who own BMWs who are not assholes, but I need those two to go out to every other one and tell them all to stop driving like assholes. I, every time, every time the assholes on the road are a BMW driver.

And I will see them comment like, there are other assholes, but it's like the, like a, you know, a rectangle is not a square, but a square is a rectangle. Yeah. Uh, all. Not all drivers, not all asshole drivers are BM BMW drivers, but all MW drivers are assholes. Yeah. Wow. Except for like two that I can say I actually know that are not, but those two get out there until everyone else to stop being such assholes.

Oh, I'm gonna fight all of them. 

Tom: I'd like to say I, I've noticed this, but I'm, I'm gonna come clean. It's a, this is embarrassing. This is v Talk about vulnerable bros. I am, I have a car gene deficiency, like I don't see cars. I even, I've never been able to say like, oh yeah, that person drives this and like, you [00:55:00] 

Jonathan: fucking, you fucking just, I don't, I don't see colored me for, for cars.

Tom: I don't, 

Jonathan: sorry. I don't, I don't see cars 

Tom: When people talk about like, what make a car is, I, my mind is like, what? How do people know this? And people just know it. It's like, I've, I've never, like, even as a kid match, well, it's capitalism, it's just 

Jonathan: branding. It's just knowing like it's an emblem. It's like, it's the, it's, it is.

It is, it is commercialism. It is knowing a brand, knowing, well, someone said 

Tom: to me like, look at the logo. I'm like, okay, yeah, I could, I could start doing that. But it feel, correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like many people in the world can look at like the shape and they know what it's Sure. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, 

Jonathan: there's, there's a degree of that for sure.

Yeah. 

Tom: I don't know. 

Jonathan: But usually it's the, for me it's the logo. And then what's the, the, um, the frequency fallacy? The, the, the, I'm making, it's not Bernie Meinhof, but the, but the, like, the, somebody has a thing who's like a, when you start noticing something, it feels more frequent because Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You are. Thinking about it that way. Yeah. You know, um, so I like, I, I really take that into account and I try to think like, I'm sure this isn't true. I'm sure it's just because I've had the thought now that these drivers suck. [00:56:00] Yeah. Now it's, I'm clocking it more, but I swear to God it is so frequent and I am not a, a, a kind or patient or forgiving driver.

So I keep an eye on all these people out there, and it is so frequent that it is a BMW driver. Well, you just 

Tom: lost us. Our BM bmw uh, driver. Er, uh, 

Jonathan: listen, here's the thing is I, if you are A BMW driver. Get out there. First of all, don't be an asshole and get out there and tell all the other drivers to stop being assholes.

It's making you look bad as a BMW driver. Anyone out there who's listening to this, who is a BM BMW driver and is not an asshole, all of the other BMW owners are making you look like an asshole. When I see your car coming in the rear view mirror, I think, oh, great. Here comes an asshole, and if you're not, then you need to talk to the other ones to get this fixed.

Tom: Alright, well that's settled. That's our episode. Happy 10th. Happy 10th. Uh, happy 10th, man. Happy double digits. 10th anniversary, but it's not our anniversary. 

Jonathan: No. By 10th episode. Happy 10th. Happy 10th episode. 

Tom: Um, you wanna read us out? I'll read us out. Thanks for listening to No homo. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to [00:57:00] No Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms.

And YouTube graphics and music by Matt Lattner. And a communal thanks to Jen Dornbach and Quan Williams. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only. Over and 

Jonathan: out. Nailed it. Wow, man. Love you, bro. I love you. Bye bye.