Hard Times, Hard Men

Tom and Jonathan are still negotiating the terms of their podcasting relationship - open, closed, or somewhere in between. Along the way, they unpack the recent shake-up at the CDC and take a deep dive into how homophobia shapes male relationships from childhood onward.

Transcript

Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's up? What's up? Teching talking. Teching talking. 

Tom: What is that? People are not gonna know what 

Jonathan: that is. No, I know. Because here's the problem. Uh, we didn't do it. We didn't start recording in time. We need to stick to the podcast mantra. Always be recording because first of all, we just made some funny, weird noises.

But second of all, a beautiful man just walked through the background of your scene over there and, and it was like, oh boy. It was, it was, it was, the, people needed to see that. And, uh, they didn't, we didn't get it on, on video. I almost said on tape, how old is that? We didn't get it on video, so always be recording.

Um, and we did it, but we didn't do it. I am sorry. We will. Um. I feel like we owe the audience. Now I gotta make it up to them. 'cause it was, whew. It was nice. 

Tom: It was, it was inappropriate for children. 

Jonathan: Yeah, that's, that's true. We should put up for this episode, we'll put up a parental advisory for all the kids that watch our, for this episode.

Tom: Yeah. They can watch the other ones. 

Jonathan: Yes. Uh, but here we are. This is episode [00:01:00] 12 of the No Homo Podcast with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. 

Tom: I'm Tom. All right. This is episode number 12. We're recording this on Monday, September 8th. Uh, thanks for being here, everybody, bro. This is the best you have ever. No looked.

No. Yeah. Right out the gate. Right out the gate. Wow. Thanks, man. The way the hat is framing the eyes. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. You had a hat on. When we turned this on, I thought, oh, I want a hat real quick. So I Yeah, I know. I I couldn't be, 

Tom: I couldn't be the only one with a hat. I noticed. But that's cool. 

Jonathan: I was inspired by, I, look, I'm always doing, I'm doing what Tommy's doing.

That's like, that's all I, that's, that's, it's not quite, '

Tom: cause a lot of times I'm doing things you're not doing. 

Jonathan: That's true. That I, you were doing That's fair. That's true, 

Tom: so 

Jonathan: don't do anything. What kind like that? 

Tom: Um, 

Jonathan: should we, we have the parental advisories up for this one, right? Yeah, yeah, 

Tom: yeah. You know, just like, uh, you know, uh, I am excited that this is NH 12, no ho O 12.

Yeah. Because, uh, you know, my girl's about to put out T 12. 

Jonathan: Yeah. So. Basically the same. It's [00:02:00] like, it's like we're, we're in lockstep with T Swift, it's us and we're in our no homo era. We are, we are. 

Tom: The funniest, the funniest like tweet I saw about her announcement about the recent album was the scariest thing about no, uh, Taylor Swift announcing about Taylor Swift announcing T 12, is that the next album is T 13 and you know, do you know about her in 13?

Uh, yeah, she does. 13 is like her special number and everything is, yeah, so like, I thought that was pretty funny. A fan to think it's funny. 

Jonathan: Um, 12 episodes in, well, 11 episodes in going into episode 12 and last week we talked about the lack of attention I am getting from the no homies, and it did not get any better this week.

I You get any female? I, I blame the algorithm. I think that there's something wrong. I think I have some parental settings set on my, uh, my dms because it's, it's crickets, man. Yeah, I do. That's not true. I do have like many, many, um, uh, Russian bots that want to, uh, that. Talk to me for sex all the [00:03:00] time. Um, but other than that, and so maybe those, that's just me.

That's, this might be real. Yeah. Those might, this might not be bot, but enough from enough about the mail. I'm not getting What Have you heard what's going on? Yeah, I mean 

Tom: I, I, I continue to get good feedback. 

Jonathan: Of course you do. Yeah, of course you do. 

Tom: From a lot of people in my life, which is great. Um, it's, uh, like loyal, some loyal.

Listeners, um, and people who just keep going outta their way to say that it's getting better, which I think is a good, that is a good, I'm glad we're getting better. Not worse. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it, it's funny though. It's, it's interesting, um, how it really has been crickets from some of the people who I am closest to in my life, or like Yeah.

Family. Um, and. So that's interesting. Yeah. People that I thought were like some of my best friends who haven't even acknowledged, uh, that a podcast is happening. 

Jonathan: Do you see this one? I would. Oh. Oh no. My light's in the way. I can't see. I gotta move you over a little bit. Ah, hi. There's fish everybody. Hi Fish.

Tom: Fish. Say hi. [00:04:00] 

Jonathan: No. Oh, she, she kind of wanted to though. She kind of wanted to. Um, I, I think though that like, not that I have advice to give on it, but maybe a little experience, like as someone who's done a bunch of single episodes of a bunch of TV shows, people are like, a lot, you know, like, like I'm very like a veteran, uh, like I'm, I'm like a serious American stage actor.

That's, uh, well, well trod, um, of single episodes. Um, it. Crickets Most of the time. Yeah, most of the time. You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that for me, it got to the point where I was like, that's, that's fine. Like, I'm, it's fine. Like the, we're doing the thing, you know, if people wanna talk about it, great.

Yeah. If people don't wanna talk about it, that's fine too. It's, we're doing the thing. I don't think that anyone in my family listens to this. Like, and that's fine for them to not listen, you know, like whatever. Yeah. It doesn't bother you at all. I mean, probably somewhere, but I've been dealing with this for a long time, so.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, 

Tom: yeah, for me it's like, um. Sometimes, you know, people will write and it's not just like a random text, it's like, it's like a paragraph and that like, I mean, that takes, you have to like [00:05:00] go outta your way to do that. Yeah. And um, yeah, I mean it means a lot. It's nice. And also like I have been avoiding comments on YouTube and on like the Instagram posts and the clips and like, I've just been avoiding the comments out of fear.

Um, and the other day I like sort of let myself go read some of them and was like, really? You know, really excited by some of the passionate responses. Yeah. Uh, so 

Jonathan: that's, that's cool. Yeah, there's some very engaged, uh, no homies, which is awesome. Like I try to go through, uh, and for any no homies out there that are commenting anywhere, Instagram or YouTube or whatever, and like, we're not getting back to you.

It's 'cause we're like old and don't really understand it very well and don't do technology very well. Like, I remember that there are comments on YouTube and swing by sometimes and try to like. Answer and like, you know, engage as best as I can. But like, it's just that I, I've just gotten used to Instagram and now we're doing more of this on YouTube.

I, like, I don't understand the platform at all and it, it's not complicated. I'm just old and not, I'm slow at this stuff. Yeah. I'm not gonna be mad at the stuff, but I'm not good at the stuff. Um, I. I, I will say though, I [00:06:00] do want to, uh, go ahead and make sure that we've had this conversation because I wanna make sure that we are communicated in our relationship, and I know that we have maybe differences of perspective on how open our relationship is, but I am getting requests for other podcasts, so I just wanna, wow.

I just wanna say that from who I want. That doesn't matter right now. It doesn't matter how many, it doesn't matter. Multiple. Wow. 

Tom: I've not been asked to do a single other podcast. 

Jonathan: Well, I guess that's the, maybe that, that's what I'll. I don't know, people, I, I don't know. I think it's, I don't, 

Tom: I'm not comfortable.

I think I want to close it up. 

Jonathan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but now we're gonna, now we're gonna close it up. That's Yeah, yeah, 

Tom: yeah. Until my offers start coming in. 

Jonathan: Oh, I see. Okay. So this is kind of like. This, this is, this would be like some of the rules that exist sometimes, right?

Like we could, I could be like, I've, 

Tom: I've seen this played out in a gay couple actually. Yeah. I 

Jonathan: could be like, I look, yes, I can join you, but you also have to invite my partner. Like, you have to, you have to have the worst. The worst. [00:07:00] You gotta, you In fact, before I will sit down with you, you have to, uh, you have to invite my partner and you have to, he has to.

Okay. What comes next? 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Um, okay. 

Tom: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's terrible. But it is. Do you, do you want some pity pod? No, I don't want, I don't want your pity pods. Pity pods. That's awesome though. I'm happy for you. That's great. That's great. Thanks, man. That's great. You know? Yeah. You're welcome. 

Jonathan: Um, I, yeah. What else?

I don't know. Let's, I, I, I don't want to sit in a spot. What's going on in your life for this week? In my, in my life this week? What has been going on in my life this week? I, look, this is exactly what's been happening in my life. These are the kind of notes I made, Tupperware, bottom leaking. Um, that's, that's, that's in my notes over here.

Mm. Bottom leaking Uhhuh, uh. Here's, here's, I'm gonna read you, I'm gonna read you the notes directly from the notes verbatim in the notes. Uh, Tupperware, bottom leaking. Keep the top. Can you have more tops than bottoms? What is this? So, [00:08:00] yeah, so we have, uh, we've, we've tried to move away from plastic Tupperware, uhhuh.

We're trying to move to more glass or, you know, if there's something else. In fact, in fact, lemme take a moment right now and say, no homies. Uh, you've got great taste if you have, uh, a recommendation for, for, for, uh, I mean, there's gotta be what's the more, um, universal word for Tupperware? Like, Tupperware is the, the one, but, you know, container dishes, like I was gonna 

Tom: say, like, are you guys still using actual Tupperware?

Jonathan: No, I mean, but like, it's still most, so we do have some plastic ones, like there's still like plastic stuff that we've been slowly getting rid of. Um, yeah, but it's 

Tom: not like. The Tupperware brand from the seventies? The house party? No. Okay. 

Jonathan: No, no, no. It's, I mean, but it's also whatever. It's a lot of It's like, like takeout containers.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's like a couple of good ones, but those, like, those are busted. First of all, it's like, let's just add more microplastics to our meals. Yeah. For, and also like those are leaking and we have some glass ones, but I think they're like, uh, I'm pretty sure that Jen was, was bargain hunting, you know?

Which is, she should do. She's very good at it. She's very good at finding a deal, but they've been cracking and honest, so like they're, we need [00:09:00] like a good. A good Tupperware. What's the word though? Container? Just container. Yeah. I 

Tom: don't, I don't know the word. Um, yeah, it's like Tupperware is like Kleenex now.

Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't have an answer, but I, we, we tend to do better with the glass ones. Yeah. With the, with the plastic fitted tops. Mm-hmm. They're like, the Rubbermaid I think is like a good brand. Um, IKEA also has like good. Knock off rubber, uh, rubber made ones. Okay. Um, I personally, like once a year go through and like every bottom has to have a matching top.

Jonathan: Mm. And I 

Tom: get rid of any extras. Just to like, yeah. Just to keep it real, keep it fresh. Can't see. I really was like, I don't like clutter. 

Jonathan: You know, all euphemisms aside, I was kind of wondering if there was a reason to keep extra tops or bottoms. Like if it's, if it's, if it makes sense, if there's a strategy behind having a, like.

More of one, but it's really just have a one-to-one, right? Like I 

Tom: think it's a personal choice. I mean, for me, like I just hate stuff. So like yeah. I'm always like getting rid of stuff. Yeah. I wish I had like 30 things in my life, so I'm always trying to like get rid of Yeah. Extra stuff in the cabinets. So I don't know.

Jonathan: Yeah, that's fair. You gotta do what 

Tom: works for you, man. But I'm sorry, your bottom's leaking. 

Jonathan: Oof. Yeah, [00:10:00] and I have extra tops right now. Too many tops for the bottoms and the bottom is leaking. Um, 

Tom: well I just watched the, uh, we and Kwana and I just watched the Netflix, uh, documentary, uh, Katrina Ka Heller High Water, uh, three part documentary about.

Hurricane Katrina. Mm-hmm. Um, highly recommended, disturbing as fuck. Um, you know, I remember, I mean, I followed very closely on the news when that was all happening. Yeah. I consider myself like, well educated in terms of the events that went down and then the, uh, political fallout. Yeah. And, um, I was still just devastated by it.

And, um, you know, the, the devastation that, um, primarily. Pretty much only black people experienced poor black people. Yeah. Um, and the ineptitude of the government's response was just outrageous. Yeah. And the fact that, um, uh. Uh, Trump is now decimating fema. Yeah. Um, and after watching that documentary, I just am like, but I, I, I like the bitter, angry part of me.

[00:11:00] Just can't wait for the next natural disaster in a red state with a decimated fema. Uh, and like you reap what you sow. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Uh, 

Tom: I know that's horrible. I don't want people to die, but, um, man, it's just, um, I don't know what we're doing, man. So highly recommend it if you're looking for some lighthearted. You know, TV watching 

Jonathan: at the end of the night.

A little romp. Cool. Yeah, we've been rewatching, uh, parks and Rec, but maybe we'll go for something lighter and funnier. 

Tom: Yeah, yeah. A pallet cleanser. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: Um, I, I, I, I do wanna jump in and say I want to go ahead, like, um. Uh, uh, school started this week, so there's been a lot going on. Like there's a lot of crazy stuff going on, but I found out this weekend, um, that one of the people who I consider like the, my most influential or beginning of theater in my life, uh, her name was, uh, Debbie Fleischman, Deborah Fleischman.

She was a, uh, director, um, in my hometown. Um, and she was the director of the first community show that I did Christmas Carol, back in 1991. Um. And she like co-wrote and directed that show. It was [00:12:00] like a, a, a, um, a a not custom, but whatever, like a version of of Christmas Carol that was written specifically for the community theater in Huntsville and like, she passed away this weekend.

Um, I'm so sorry. Um, thanks man. Yeah, it's um, I mean, I haven't talked to her in forever, but she. Holds a very special place in like the trajectory of my life. Yeah, I mean she was, I was a little third grade kid and my mom took me to a community theater audition. We had seen a production of Oliver, and I was like, wait, those kids are like from here, and they just like auditioned and did that.

I wanna do that. And so my mom took me and Deborah Fleishman was like one of the first women that I was like. I was a small child and she was a very, like, larger than life presence. She was a huge presence and she was like fun and funny and kind, but was a workhorse and was like a, like a, a task master that was like hard to impress and it was like, set the tone for me.

For what a like, and I, I think it, it like fast forward, you know, four circle, like you as a director, like having [00:13:00] someone who has a vision and knows what they want and. Can be kind and supportive, but is also not gonna bullshit you when you're not giving them what they want. 

Tom: Yeah. And 

Jonathan: like the idea of like meeting a bar and meeting a standard as a performer was like right away for me.

And, um, so. The hat's off to Yeah. Yeah. Debbie Fleischman and the Fleischmann's. Yeah. Um, I'm sorry. To the family for the, the line, I'm sorry. To, to my hometown and for the school where she was a teacher in the community theater where she was a part of, um, it's a, it's a, it's a tough loss for the arts in Alabama.

Yeah. 

Tom: I mean, I think every theater kid can trace their Yeah. Uh, to like a series of people that Yeah. Along the way that led you there. I certainly have my on my own. Um, I'm sorry to hear, but. Thank you Deborah, for, uh, knocking this boy into shape, making him the, uh, American stage actor that he is today. Um, so speaking of funerals, we were at a wedding, um, and I think we actually have four weddings this fall.

So four weddings and a funeral. Um, yeah. We were at our friend Jason and Taylor's wedding. [00:14:00] It was really like a celebration party. Uh, they got married a couple months ago at City Hall, but um, they had a really nice party this weekend. Nice. Um, in Astoria. Bunch of gays. Um, and, and a a yeah, no, a bunch of gays.

Um, and, uh, it was really, and a, and a cat. Like, what, what was the, uh, two cats? Two cats. Two cats and uh, uh, a female taking photos who I'm not sure what her sexuality is. Sure. Um, but I'm pretty sure there were no ma straight people there, but I could be wrong. Okay. But it was really fun. And, uh, I, I, I'm happy for them.

I love them and wish them, uh. A happy life together. Well, Jason and Taylor, congratulations. Yeah. 

Jonathan: We wish you a 

Tom: happy life 

Jonathan: together. Yeah, we 

Tom: do. 

Jonathan: With your cats and your photographer and all the gays, 

Tom: um, I want to, I want to come out and say, uh, no homo was wrong about a fact. Um, uh, I can't believe this is the first time we've had to do one of these.

Um, I mean. Yeah, 

Jonathan: yeah. We don't have to do this. You want to do this, but go ahead and say this. Trump is not dead. Trump is. 

Tom: Trump is not. Trump is dying. I mean, we're all dying, but Trump is [00:15:00] definitely dying faster than the rest of us. Like that is pretty clear. I mean, he's still alive 

Jonathan: now, but there was still days there of bullshit.

Yeah. They were posting, they were posting 

Tom: pictures and videos that were not happening in 

Jonathan: real time, like they were clearly from the past. 

Tom: Like they're not telling the truth about his self. But neither did the Biden administration tell us the truth about his health. But they ran, ran that shit into 

Jonathan: the ground.

People will go, people will hound dog that hard, and all of a 

Tom: sudden we're like, two days later, we're like, I guess it's fine. 

Jonathan: We're 

Tom: not gonna 

Jonathan: care about this anymore. 

Tom: And I, I feel like as the American public, it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, we have the right to know if we're gonna elect to.

Ancient beings into office. Yeah. We have the right to know about the truth about their health. Um, I wish that that was in like a bill or something or a law. Yeah. Because it's just like, so we're not being told the whole truth here, but he is still alive, so, uh, we were wrong about that sadly. But, um, I want to talk about, uh, a piece that Ezra Klein put out in the New York Times.

Yeah. As we're clawing is one of my north other north stars in terms of. Um, the world and politics. Um, he has an amazing podcast. I'm the New York Times, uh, podcast list. [00:16:00] Um, I think it's called the Ezra Klein Podcast. Um, he's a really smart political thinker, one of the smartest, I think, alive today, um, and is able to make complex.

Uh, situations make sense? Yeah. To I think every listener. Um, and he put out a, um, one of a podcast episode that was only about 20 minutes. It's a really easy read for those of you that are so busy with your life that you don't have any time for politics. Um, can you tell how I feel about those people? No, say more.

Um, like, maybe you can find 20 minutes, like listen to it on one and a half or double speed. Like you can listen to this stuff quickly. 

Jonathan: A hundred percent. Also, you asked me to point out if you're peaking on your gain. So just now we, yeah, we're getting, because I'm getting mad. I'm getting mad. Yeah, yeah. And lean in, be mad, but also just watch a game.

Tom: You can also read this article, I mean, but I, I, I don't know if you don't have time to listen to a podcast, how you possibly have time to read, but either one, please take 20 minutes to not. Title of the article is, stop Acting Like This Is Normal. That should scare you. Yeah. I've been saying this for a couple years now.

I've certainly been saying this since the election, but this is [00:17:00] not. Any more, uh, liberal versus conservative? Yeah. This is, this is like, are we gonna keep being the United States of America as we know it or are we not? And what side do you stand on? And you need to figure that out soon. And if you happen to think you might be on the side that you want to preserve the democracy that we have and preserve this radical experiment that's only 250 years old and has no guarantee that it's gonna continue, if you.

Took a history class, you know, that. Um, and, and, and basically the gist of the article is, you know, it's coming time to vote for the house on another spending bill. We have to fund the government. Um, we've last voted in March. They put a stopgap funding bill into place, which basically got us till now. Um, and they either have to vote on another one of those or maybe actually.

God forbid, actually vote to fund the government. And, um, they need democratic votes to do that. Last time the Democrats decided to vote, seven of them did because Chuck Schumer decided that that was the best course of action. Um, wasn't he on a book tour and anyway, [00:18:00] sorry. Chuck Schumer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there, there, Chuck Schumer needs to retire.

Yeah. Um, but there's certainly valid points to be made on both sides of those arguments from March. Regardless, it's in the past. I personally think. They probably made the right decision at the time, but I don't think that this is the right time to do that. And I think that this is, uh, Democrats have very little power right now.

We don't control the house. We don't control the legislature, the executive or the Supreme Court, and so we have to make noise and this is a chance to make noise. But Ezra's peace is about the fact that not only is this a chance to make noise, we have to be smart about how we do it. And Democrats need to have the, um, the words ready to go about why we are doing this.

What is it we want in exchange, we will vote yes if A, B, CDE is done. We need to have those things clearly, uh, in place. And, um, I, I. I, I, I, what what I, and, and what's trick tricky about that is this is out of all of our hands, we've now voted people who we voted in. These are the people that have to make these decisions, and we have to trust them to do it.

But what is in [00:19:00] our hands is that we can start caring about this, and we can start talking about it with each other, and we can start making noise. We need to start paying attention. Now is the time to start paying attention. If you have kids, now is the time to start paying attention. Things are getting scary, things are getting bad.

And we need to, we need to know what's going on or we're, we're fucked. We're all fucked. 

Jonathan: You know what's so funny is the, the, um, and I, I haven't seen this or I haven't listened to this piece or read it. I will do one or the other depending on how much time I have, uh, in my week. But I will Thank you. Thank you.

Uh, maybe I'll do both, you know? Um, but I do like, you know, that, you know that phrase, uh, hard times. What is it? Hard times make hard men. Hard men make easy times. Easy times. Make something. No, but I love it. Yeah. Like, you would like this one. You would like this one. Um, so lemme say it. So before you get all hard men over there.

Yeah. Hard, hard times make, I think this is right. Hard times make hard men. Uh, hard men make soft times. Soft times make soft men. Soft men make hard times and it rotate throughout that. Yeah, yeah. Right. Um, but it's like, so, and like, it's such a cliche and it's so [00:20:00] silly and it talks kinda sounds like boners, but it's also so true.

Like I feel like that's where we are right now. Like the fact that people are sitting and watching so much of this happen is like the, the. Current American populace, just like has the impression that like, it's probably gonna be okay. Like we, we go back and forth on things. We have some, we, you know, we go through a recession kind of, we da da da.

The government is just gonna keep going. It works. We've, we've figured it out. And that's just not true. No, that's just like, not true. Like the original, the Revolutionary War is pretty badass. Like the, the way that worked, the, the, uh, uh. Um, constitution Hall, like the, the cons, the, the way that those guys fought, the way that they made the cons, all the, all that is pretty badass.

And now it's like, we've been around long enough, there's enough generations that, like, we've forgotten what that's like. It's, it's almost like we are all Trump's kids now because like, let's say like his dad, you know, was a piece of shit, but like, made a bunch of money and then Trump was born into it, lost a lot of it, but got to live this life.

And his kids have no idea. They have, they're [00:21:00] totally out of touch with reality. They're, they're, they've. Been only in this world. And that's kind of what I feel like Americans are now. Like we've only known the world of fucking success and like America is number one. And that's not just a guarantee, that's not the way that it is.

It's like we're watching in real time now. People I feel like everyone's just like, yeah, but it's probably gonna be okay. Right? Like, this guy's a clown. He can't really do anything. In the meantime, he can really do. All sorts of things. And in fact, he's making up new things to do right now. He's like getting, they're just like, he's being handed unilateral power all over the place to just make crazy calls, declare war on American cities.

And people are like, yeah, but I guess you, you know, it'll be okay. It's, it's, it's democracy at work. It's like, fucking not, I mean, it's like 

Tom: everybody has a choice. Do what kind of adult do you want to be? Do you wanna be an adult that, uh, responsibly and, uh, intelligently contributes and has a say in society?

Or do you wanna be a lazy fucking asshole? Yeah, those are the two options. Um, I don't know. And then 

Jonathan: look, the, the chips are stacked, uh, in favor of lazy fucking assholes. Like that is It's true. Yeah. They're kind of built, I mean, it has intentionally [00:22:00] been built in a way right now to, to they 

Tom: want us to not be paying attention.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to give them what they want? 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: I don't know because I, I'm, I'm also fascinated by this Department of Defense being rebranded, the Department of War. Like, oh my 

Jonathan: god, 

Tom: what? 

Jonathan: Like, what is this? What they, I think that this is so, uh, almost like I, you know, like we wanna talk about politics, we wanna talk about current events on here.

'cause we wanna stay. I think that it's, we, we agree it's very important, but I also think this one specifically lands on like, the thesis of our podcast from the beginning, which is like the, I like the, the. Bastardized definition of masculinity and like the, the like totally bastardized idea of strength is so fucking toxic and so vapid.

And so like dangerously fucking, nothing like the Department of War. What the fuck are we doing? Like, what? And we're like blowing up ships in the middle of the ocean. Like now we're like policing international. Like what? And me meanwhile, by the way, the secretary of the, I guess now Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth.

[00:23:00] Can't do a fucking pullup. And I know that's not the most important thing, but like if he's gonna make tiktoks about how fit he is, don't look like such a bitch doing exercises, man. Like that's not, he wants to be all at till of the hun and he wants to be some kind of like military God. Yeah. And he does bitch pullups.

I can't, I like with his 

Tom: Nazi tattoos. Yeah. What. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Well, it drives me crazy. 

Tom: Uh, I don't know, man. Uh, yeah. I also, like last week, RFK Junior was in front of the Senate for Senate hearings about the, uh, uprising in, uh, at the, um, CDC. Uh, there was some, uh, I mean, my favorite, I think, um, exchange in the whole thing was when one of the senators asked, uh, asked, asked him, do you believe Trump deserves the Nobel Prize for.

The operation warp speed. And he said, absolutely. And then that same senator says, but you just said before that the vaccine killed more people than actual COVID. And he couldn't, he had no response to that. 'cause there is no response to that. It's insane. 

Jonathan: Of course, he, he, he's another one that gets by on like semen dumb and semen like, just like a bro.

But he's dangerous. [00:24:00] He's not just dumb. He's, he's like, this is a, to me, it sounded like you said semen, like he gets buying on semen, he gets by on semen. He probably does. I mean, he gurgles something a lot, uh, in fact. Dude gets boat, which he has a throat thing, whatever, like I, I get it. I forget what it's called, but like I respect, you have a medical condition.

He gets a fucking neurotoxin jammed into his throat to keep his voice working, which is fine if you wanna get Botox, get Botox, but stop railing on neurotoxins as the big problem in the world. They're fucking, it's you're making, he's, he's a fear mongerer. He is a misinformation fear mongerer. He's not just dumb and he is not just a man of the people.

He is not just like a dude who is, you know, like trying to democratize science. He's actually dangerous. He's spent, yeah. What, 20 plus years with the intention of dismantling the CDC. His, his nonprofit. His nonprofit makes like $20 million a year in revenue or whatever. He makes like 800 grand off of these guys, like, and the whole point is suing and going after the CD trying to dismantle the C, d, C and like.

Uh, he drives me like, there's so [00:25:00] much to me it's a, it's such a clear example of like, follow the money. Like it's not ju it's easy to see. He says sure. He says a bunch of things about how unhealthy America is, and that is true Amer there's a lot of, there's a lot of health issues with America, but the fucking yellow five or whatever, you know, is not what's doing that.

It's, it's the fact that we're taking away, I mean, fema we're taking away all of these, like the, we're taking away grants for food. We're, we're fucking burning. Crate, I mean, uh, uh, truckloads full of food that we're supposed to go to, uh, lower income areas in the middle of the country. Like, like those are the things if you, if he really cares about making America healthy, then fucking stop sitting down with Coke and having them say they're gonna change to cane sugar, which is really just adding a new product to their line.

Anyway, stop giving Shake Shack free commercials by saying they're using. Beef tallow now, or whatever, fucking can actually make some of these regulatory changes, like the pesticides. He's, he rails about pesticides, he rails about all this shit and nothing actually changes, nothing's been done. His, uh, what's the thing called with the, um, the, uh, uh, like, um, where, uh, food manufacturers get to, uh, uh, [00:26:00] uh, self-report, um, and he's gonna like, tighten the loopholes in.

Like, if you're, it, it, it's such a, it's such bullshit, but like. It does exist. So he's right. This should change that. There is a, there's a a Do you 

Tom: mean like the labels of the nutrition itself or No? No, I mean 

Jonathan: like, no, like if there's an issue, this is real. Real. No homo really, really on brandand? No homo right now.

But like, um, uh, did I put it, I did not even put it in my notes. I forget what it was called, but, uh, there's like a, there's a, uh, uh. Self business is self-report. You trust the businesses to reliably say like they can. They will do their own testing and they send their, they, they do their own testing, they send it off to the FDA and the FDA can then choose to either say, we're not sure about this, we're gonna come check it out.

Or say like, yeah, this looks good to us. We'll, we'll review your report and if it seems okay, then we'll say yes. Which is like, please leave plenty of room for corruption there. And, and that exists. And so he's coming in hot saying he is gonna like close these loopholes. And so everyone gets excited about that.

But he is not, yeah. Mean some, some of, he just 

Tom: lies the thi [00:27:00] many of the things he's upset about are, are right to be upset about. Um, and he's, it's just the way he's going about it. And then unfortunately that, that combined with the, um, villainization of Science and Scientist is, is making it a perfect storm of.

Um, a really bad situation that is going to have ramifications for a long time. Yeah. If you 

Jonathan: wanted to target something, there are plenty of industries. I mean, there are plenty of, um, markers in the industry to target the CDC is not one of them. The CDC directly has been involved with raising the life expectancy by like, what, 15, 20 years?

Like since they became an uh, uh, since they were formed in the what, what forties or whatever. Like they, it works and there I'm sure there's fat that can be cut and I'm sure there's probably like, but. Yeah, Colin, the, the, the head of the firing, the head of the CDC for saying that she's untrustworthy and whatever, and then like, that's just all bullshit.

His, the, the MAHA report, like this is the funniest one to me. The Maha, his big Maha report cites studies that don't exist. Yeah, [00:28:00] they're, they're not even studies. It just took like one other, uh, fact checker to be like, that's not a, we can't even find this. It doesn't, it's not, not only is it not peer reviewed, it's not the same as like the, he still quotes the, the fuck, he still cites the autism and vaccines bullshit from the nineties.

That was debunked. That guy lost, lost his medical license. All of that was debunked. There's nothing there. That's, that study is nothing. And he still cites that. And now he's, he's literally making up studies that are, that are. Nothing he lies and, uh, it just drives me. He, he, someone called the microwave, Mel Gibson, and I love that.

Uh, he is microwave. Mel Gibson. Yeah. He's a a, he's 

Tom: a, he's got his rabid fan base though, so. 

Jonathan: Well, they are rabid. Watch out. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: His quote about how, I wanted to make a note about this too, you, but when he was like, uh, uh. People with autism won't ever grow up to play baseball. They'll never balance a checkbook and they, they'll never, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

And I was like, I think you mean unvaccinated kids. 'cause they'll be dead. 

Tom: Yes. I mean, unfortunately in so many, some of the other kids who are vaccinated, if there's not the right amount around them. Um, [00:29:00] well, I think it's time for us to move on from solving the world. Uh, the world will have to wait for us to solve it next week.

Ah, 

Jonathan: okay. Well, the world will need have to wait because it's time for us to get vulnerable. Let's get vulnerable, bro. Um, v vulnerable v. Well, all right. You got it. You got it. Good job. Good job. I really want to, I feel like, all right. I think it's clear that that was my idea because you've committed no bandwidth to, uh, I 

Tom: can't, my mouth doesn't wanna do it.

Jonathan: My mouth doesn't want to do it. Okay. Well log that one away in the chamber. First time I've ever said that. Okay. This week on Vulner Bros. Um, we were talking last week about childhood stuff and, um. I was thinking about, I was, during this week, I was thinking about like my childhood friends and, uh, real quick shout out to friend of the pod has, um, sent you a video that you sent onto me that was talking about, um, and again, I don't even have it referenced right here in front of you.

I'm not really [00:30:00] ready for it, but it's like a so no Homo Bond brand here, but it was like a, a couple of guys talking about, um, how homophobia has. Really negatively influenced male relationships. Um, and it's funny to think back through that, um, and like why that is, and I thought it would be, I think that that's something that like we.

Talk about as something that like we, I like I can say I benefit from having relationships that lack homophobia because they're like, then there's so much more opportunity for growth and so much more opportunity for connection and like fucking better massages. You know, like all like whatever, all of the things that exist there.

It's funny to think about why. Like, I don't know what it comes down to. And this is my question, and I've, I've, if you were to go back through my reels, um, uh, and you would be watching them for the first time, I guess, if you were to go back through my Instagram reels and see some of these from months ago, but, uh, I, I, I did spend some time like kind of posing this question, remember the whole [00:31:00] bear thing like a year or two ago, like in the woods?

If a woman came upon? Yeah. Yeah. A man or a bear. Um. And I was kind of, I was kinda making the point that like as men got so up, their, uh, their, their panties in a water over that whole thing about women choosing the bear, but men. Would also choose the bear. Men are scared of, men are scared to be close to men.

Men are worried all the time. That's why like I, that I can't think of another reason that homophobia is so prevalent other than like, what do you think that you're gonna get raped? Or do you think that you're gonna catch gay? Like, what is it that's, what is the fear here? And it's so, I 

Tom: don't 

Jonathan: know. I mean, debilitating, I've never experienced 

Tom: it.

Um. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, but I did experience maybe the inverse of it growing up in that I knew that other people that I knew that gay was bad. That was clear. Uh, I remember, uh, in first grade, um, uh, there was a guy that I went to school with Terrance, and he was really cool. He was like a cool first [00:32:00] grader, and he came over for a play date, like on a Saturday.

Jonathan: Hey, 

Tom: real quick, can I 

Jonathan: ask you what a cool first grader? 'cause I have a first grader right now and we're going back and forth on what's cool and right now. So like, gimme the, I know it's a while back, but like real quick, what's a cool first grader? 

Tom: Uh, he just like had friends and, um, yeah, looked. Cute and like Yeah.

Yeah. Was 

Jonathan: like to chill, like Yeah. Like, yeah. He was just like, cool. I, I mean, you know what cool is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Tom: And so, um, he came, he came over for a play date. Uh, I thought we had a good time. And then like the following Monday in the little, like little coat room next to our classroom, um, he came in and I, I like, went to go give him a hug in the morning when he got in.

And he like reacted really weirdly. And like he clocked that everybody else was watching and then he was like really mean to me after that. And I remember he left the coat room and I remember. Sitting in there thinking like, oh, something's wrong with me. Something's different with me that he didn't want with the same to do say the same, hello that I wanted to say.

And I never tried to do that again with anybody. Um, and like later, like in middle school, like puberty, [00:33:00] um, first of all there were like, there was a period like fourth and fifth grade where I had like a group of guy friends. And I think that we are all. Gay and out now. Um, but we didn't, we weren't at the time and didn't know at the time, but we like naturally like, sort of, 

Jonathan: yeah.

Tom: Segregated together and like, um, we would have sleepovers and like, um, we would play these like games where like we would like be in our sleeping bags, our individual sleeping bags, and we would like. Do trivia with each other. And if you got the question wrong, you had to take a piece of clothing off. Mm.

Um, but it never, like, like the furthest it ever got is that you were like naked in your sleeping bag. But we were never, like, we never touched each other. Nothing ever happened. Um, but what's interesting to me is that there were rumors that at the same time, guys that were like cooler and more athletic and like the straight guys who went on to be like, you know, um, the athletes.

Uh, there was rumors that like some of them got busted by a parent, like, and they were [00:34:00] actually like doing shit with each other. And you like, that's a thing. Like, you hear about, hold on, hold 

Jonathan: on one second. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Hold on one second. Sorry. The, it just, we had a weird little tech blurb and I just wanna make sure we're back.

So 34 20, um. Pick right back up. You can hear me right? We're good? Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah. Okay. Pick right back up with They got busted. 

Tom: Yeah. So the, the, the, the straight guy, I mean, the rumor is that they got busted by a parent. They all got in trouble. And like, a little part of me was like, why wasn't I invited to that?

You know? And like, um, I don't know. There's like a. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what kind of experiences did you have like 

Jonathan: that? Um, well it's funny you say that because like I, I wasn't a part of it, but like, we'll jump around in time here, but there was definitely in high school, like the cool guys, the football players, the, that were, that were.

Definitely straight and, but were like the fun guys and like the, maybe not like, like there were some that were like shitty meathead bullies. Not those guys, but the ones that were cool. The, the quarterback and the, like, the good looking cool [00:35:00] guys on the football team. Definitely. I would hear about them talking about their, like weekend was watching porn and all jerking off in the same room.

Yeah. Like they would be separated. Like, it didn't sound like they were like actual like circle, jerking or doing it for each other, but like. Everyone was masturbating in the same room. Not even like, it sounded like, not even like very like closed off, like just kind of like near each other, which I just always thought was so interesting because some of those guys, I will say, I think they had a pretty good close friendship and the, I think, I have no idea what their vulnerability was with each other, but I know that like for me.

I, I, I learned early, kind of like we were talking about, like how to, how to calibrate emotions. Um, I was like a sensitive kid and a, an artistic kid and that, like, I learned quickly that that was not the way to survive. And it was hard to pivot. Like I couldn't actually change that. Like, but it's the same like ballet class, you know, like it's me getting shit for, it's me going to a spend the night party, but having a show in the morning and getting shit for that, like being artistic, [00:36:00] being, and, and so then like wanting to engage with people in a softer.

Sweeter way was absolutely off the table. Yeah. And so then that just became like a, that's what I, and I didn't, I don't, I wasn't experiencing it like I, like I'm feeling. Early on sexual urges or early on, like what? But I just like was a softer kid. Like I wanted to be more sweet and I just had to like learn the hard way not to do that.

And I, I, I think by high school I had like found other artistic guys, you know, and like some of my best friends in high school were gay and some of my best friends were out of school in community theater, kind of, uh, or whatever, you know, theater around the area kind of ways. Um, and I was able to like, that was a much.

More comfortable place. A much, a much easier place to be. Not even like that. We were going hard on being vulnerable, just like being who the fuck you were? Like not having to put on some kind of front about like being tough or like caring about sports. Sports. Sports are so funny to me [00:37:00] because like I. I, the older I get and like, I don't know man, I like, I like playing sports.

I like when I'm directly involved with sports and I like being a fan of sports, but I'm becoming much more aware that what I like about it is the pageantry and the comradery of it. Like getting a group together and having like a reason to all be on the same page about something and to, to, to connect with people somehow and to bond over something.

And it's like we're choosing to bond over these things that like. Don't fucking matter. I mean, I, I, they do matter. I, there's a, there is a, there's a place for sports and there's a place for what that is in fandom. Um, and I, I think, oh, they both, I, look, I don't know that we've ever gotten both, both in one episode.

Don't get a two cameo. Wow. She got jealous. 

Tom: Say, hi, Jess. She knew there were 

Jonathan: cameos tonight. 

Tom: She wanted a cameo too. Hi. Say hi, sorry. Keep going. 

Jonathan: But it's like, I mean, I think it's one of the things that I, I don't know. I love about it's, I think it's what has helped our friendship thrive is like, yeah, and I've said it before and like I can [00:38:00] go to a bar and watch a game and I can talk about a game and I can like be a fan and I can know enough stats to sound like I'm a fan.

I can enjoy it. I can enjoy a winning season for a team, but I would rather get together and just talk about. And be, have the ability to talk about real shit. Like just get into whatever it is. Like, I feel like with you, we can, it's kind of like why we structured this podcast the way we did, but like we can pivot from current events to like childhood trauma to mm-hmm.

Sexuality, to, you know, to being stupid, to whatever. And like there's a, there's a comfort in that vulnerability that I feel like helps us thrive in a friendship. And there's absolutely like. I, I only have a, a, a very small handful of, of straight male friends that I'm like, close to at all these days. And it's kind of been the case my whole life is like, yeah, I have my friends, but then when I stop and look at it, it's like, if I stop reaching out, they're not really gonna reach out and we don't really come connect.

I, I think that this is 

Tom: something that's been happening is happening, uh, across the country. Across the country. Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:00] Especially and exacerbated by COVID. Yeah. Um, and, and straight guys are just more and more, um. Sort of siloed and home playing video 

Jonathan: games or the, the, I remember that clip that has sent, made a, a really interesting point that I hadn't thought about.

It was, it was that, uh, the default for the way that our society works is that the default is feminine. Yeah. And masculinity is like a goal to reach, like, because little boys are not masculine, little boys are not looked at as masculine. You have to grow, you have to find masculinity, you have to grow into it.

And that really what it fucking means is like you've gotta put these walls up and become this. Thing that I guess people think that they wanna see and they think want to represent what masculinity is like. It's gotta be tough, it's gotta be, yeah. Whatever this made up bullshit is about like the, the leader, the, a head of a household that doesn't have to feel emotions that can stay stalwart and stay Yeah.

You know, steady, which is like just so unhealthy. 

Tom: And from the gay point of view, uh, we deal, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I mean, I, I'll speak a little bit on behalf of the gay community. 'cause I [00:40:00] think I'm not the only person. That deals with this, but, um, it's this like fucked up, uh, getting turned on by that kind of masculinity.

Mm. Mm-hmm. And, um, and like I, I am attracted to masculine guys. Um, I'm not really attracted to, um. Guys that aren't masculine and, and that carries so much heavy, like, what the fuck? Backstory? You know, and I 

Jonathan: admit that, but I, I mean, it is what it is. I mean, what do you think, like, like is it, is it a internalized homophobia or is it just like an ideal, like.

Like, uh, the first men that you were, it's kinda like, I, anybody who looks like Cindy Crawford is gonna be hot to me because when I was a child, like 

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's internalized homophobia. Um, I think if I had internalized homophobia, I've worked through that. To be frank, I'm really grateful that I'm gay and not dealing with the bullshit y'all go through.

Um, and I think we have way more fun. So I'm, I'm very happy that I'm gay and if I could choose it again, I would. Um, I, I think [00:41:00] that it's partly to do with like, just when I was. Going through my sexual awakening, what was in front of me. Yeah. And, um, but I, I mean, I could be wrong about that. I'll go to therapy and find out.

Jonathan: Well, yeah, I mean, go to therapy, uh, you know, get, get gay friends and go to therapy. That's our, our motto, right? That's our motto. 

Tom: Uh, is it? Let's, let's give some no homo work this week. Okay. I, I wanna give the no homo work of, um, a five minute squat every day. Love it. Uh, this is something that I have been doing for a year now.

Um, I, I came across it. I follow like a lot of like health stuff on Instagram and, um, a a lot of like, just really good influencers that share little tips and, um, you know, we're meant to be in a squat. Mm-hmm. Um, we're like in caveman days, that's how we hung out. We didn't have chairs. We hung out in squats.

We ate dinner, we ate food in squats. You're supposed to take a shit in the squat. In a squat. That's why the Squatty Potty exists. Shout Squatty Potty. Yeah, there's a lot of good sex to be had in squats, but you, your body has to be able to do it. Mm-hmm. And if you're sitting [00:42:00] in a desk chair every day, if a squat is hard for you to keep hold for five minutes, that's a problem.

Yeah. You have to be able to do that. Um, when I first started doing it, I wasn't able to do it right away. Five minutes. I had to work up to it. Um, you have to be, uh, diligent about it. But, uh, that's my homework. I think it's, uh, really good for, uh, health in a bunch of ways and, um. 

Jonathan: I like that. Yeah. And like a legitimate, like a, like a, like a take in the shit squat, like in your heels all the way like down and Yeah.

Yeah. And listen to 

Tom: Ezra Klein's podcast on double speed. Yeah. And you'll be almost done with it at that point. 

Jonathan: Nice. Um, squat. Squat for the duration of Ezra Klein's podcast. On double speed. I like that. As home. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. I get my, uh, general like, walk into a room and be like, what the fuck are you doing?

Because I'll just be like. On my phone, but I will drop into a squat 'cause I'm, you know, I'm like on my phone too much. I'm all hunched over and then I'll think like, well I don't wanna do that. Yeah. But I need to finish this email. So I just like get down to the squat. Great. So like can hold my phone up a little bit.

Like it's a great solution. 

Tom: Yeah, yeah, totally. You know what it's time for? I do. Uh, who would you fight? Who would you fight? Pow, [00:43:00] pow. 

Jonathan: You go first. Love it. Okay. Um, well, we, we kind of, uh, hinted at a, a moment ahead of time, but I wanna fight, uh, Pete, Pete, Seth, I wanna fight the Nazi in charge of the Department of War.

Uh, 'cause he does bitch pullups. He's, he can't do a pushup. He's, he's unfit, he's unfit to be a leader and he is unfit, period. So I would like to, uh. Uh, paint my nails in Punch a Nazi. I would like to challenge the, uh, the Secretary of War to a charity boxing match. 'cause you ain't nothing but a little bitch.

You can't do a pull up. What 

Tom: happens if all these charity boxing match challenges come through at the same time? 

Jonathan: I would love it, except for, I will say this, I would, I mean, I would, I mean, come on dude. That would be like a Netflix. I would run that. Even if I lose fights, I would run that. I would sell that.

That would be, I would. Be an amazing run to sell. I would go, it would be a whole series of just fighting all of these challenges as a cha, a charity boxing match. Um, I did get back this week into boxing, uh, and I immediately fucked up my rotator cuff. So I'm out here talking all this big game and I, but can I, I, can I take a moment?

This, it feels like a good excuse to show you the, the cupping that I got. Can I [00:44:00] show you? Yeah. 

Tom: Woof. Whoa. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Woof. 

Tom: That's the YouTube 

Jonathan: screenshot. 

Tom: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. 

Jonathan: But once that heals, I wanna fight. Pete, he up? 

Tom: Yep. Yep. I'm, I'm writing this down, couping. Um, okay. Uh, this week I'm gonna fight my boy Nick.

Oa, um, OA. Oa. Yeah. Uh, Nick Bosa, he's the defensive end for the San Francisco 49 ERs. Um, he's six four. He's 266 pounds and woof. I have had the biggest crush on this guy forever. Um, and I have like. I've like Instagram accounts and like he's just like a golden god of a man, but he's a fucking Trumper. And, um, I just, I just wanna fight him for being so beautiful and a Trumper and I just want to like pin him down and I want to like, hold his big thighs down and I want to like, pull back his arms and like.

Get the armpit, like right there, and then do the other one. I want to take his [00:45:00] face and like err and like put my mouth in his, my hand in his mouth and err and then take his hair and like, like op, like, like, and then I wanna like get his legs up and I wanna like

So is that, that's that, is that a fight? Is that a That's my, that's my, who 

Jonathan: is one of you? Fight for the week. That's a, that's a win-win fight for you. That goes back to like. The, the, like at the beginning of our friendship when you were like, you wanna fight? I'm like, it's this. I don't wanna fight you. Yeah.

I'm, I'm gonna punish him. I wanna punish him for being an asshole, but woof. Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. It turns out it's a bummer that he is, uh, 

Jonathan: fucking Trumper. Yeah, 

Tom: it really is. 

Jonathan: Yeah. So, 

Tom: Nick Paso, I'm coming for you and in you.

Jonathan: Yeah. You've been warned. You've been warned. Nicholas, you've been warned. Nicholas, you've been warned. Alright, why don't you read us out this week? Okay. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to No Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms. On YouTube graphics and music [00:46:00] by Matt Ladner and a Licious.

Thanks to Jen Dornbusch and Wan Williams. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only. 

Tom: You did it. Boom. I did it. We did it. Oh, I forgot that. 

Jonathan: Love you, bro. Love you. Bye.