Powder Keg

Tom ushers Jonathan into the world of gooning, while Jonathan ups the ante with a scandalous tale caught on security footage. The laughs give way to vulnerability as Jonathan opens up about family struggles and the hard work of being authentic with the people who know us best.

Transcript

Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's up? What's up? We did it. This is the No Homo podcast with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. I'm Tom. What are we doing here, Tom? 

Tom: We are re we are recording episode number 14 on Monday, September 22nd of the year of our Lord 2025. 

Jonathan: I don't think that the Lord has anything to do with this year, but that was great.

We did it. We got, we did it. We did it. What's up, bro? Oh man. Uh, I miss you. That's honestly, that's the honest truth. I miss you too, just a moment ago. Before we get, first of all, we always gotta be recording, but whatever, this doesn't matter. I, it's been too long since we got to hang out and just talking about it just then.

I, I know I'm now, this is, this is great, but I, you know, like we need, it's not the same. It's not the same. Also 

Tom: summer's officially over now. I 

Jonathan: know. I know, I know, I know, dude. Oh. I know. Terrible. 

Tom: Yeah. But we're gonna soldier through. Yeah. Um, together. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. We'll do this together. So 

Tom: I listened to your, um, other podcast.

Did. I did. You did. You didn't tell [00:01:00] me. You listened. Okay. I listened. Yes. Um, yeah. You did good. It was, it was cute. 

Jonathan: Yeah. You liked it. Yeah. Thanks man. It was cute. Thanks. Um, Jim did reach out and say, um, that he wanted to. He wanted to make sure that you felt like there wasn't any flirting, but he did say, he said if you felt uncomfortable about any of the flirting, he would be happy to flirt with you to even things out.

So 

Tom: I, well, Jim, I did feel like right at the end he got a real zinger in, uh, about like, how you looked. And I was like, wow. Wow. Like the, the, I think the credits were even rolling or something and he got it in. So yeah. Jim, uh. We got a problem. 

Jonathan: All right, well, we don't have a problem. We have a no homie. So, uh, Jim, give a shout.

Give a shout out to Tom. Make him, make him feel, make him feel good. Make, 

Tom: yeah. Yeah. It was, it was good though. I was proud of you. Thanks, man. But yeah, no, no more of that for a while. 

Jonathan: Okay. Alright. Um, I can promise no more for, uh, a while. That's, I can do [00:02:00] that. What about you? What's going on, man? What's going on?

What's going on? Any podcast, news? Any, some, some news? Gimme some, some news. Some home news, some self news that was like self news, home news, some news. Well, first I wanna do 

Tom: a little correction corner from three things last week. 

Jonathan: Oh, okay. 

Tom: Um, first, uh, the film, the JFK film that is now famous, that we've all seen a million times mm-hmm.

Is the za the Zapruder film. Um, that's the name of the man who recorded it. That was the name I, that I cannot come to my head. At the moment. Oh, 

Jonathan: oh, you mean the actual footage? The, the actual footage is called this film. Um, 

Tom: and Josh O'Connor is the name of the actor from the History O Sound, Josh Connor Uhhuh, who played Prince Charles Uhhuh and the Crown Uhhuh, and has been in, he's Lit and, oh, I forgot to tell you this part.

So we went to go see the history of sound at, um, uh, the Angelica Film Center mm-hmm. Uh, downtown. Mm-hmm. And, um. The, there were three previews before the movie and every one of them had Josh O'Connor in it. Wow. So by the third one, the audience was hysterical and didn't pay attention to [00:03:00] the, it was just crazy.

We were about to, and everybody knew they were about to see Josh O'Connor in the movie, so That's really funny. It was a little, it was a little much, but I'm happy for him that he is doing so well. 

Jonathan: Yeah. I mean that the Angelica, I'm sure that's like, they kind of, Angelica need two slash one. Yeah, there you go.

Slash want to, it's like, you're here to see this guy. Let's just show you everything we have coming up with this guy. Yeah. I mean, it, 

Tom: I, I, it's gotta be crazy that they did that on purpose, but like, maybe, I think it's a strange decision, but, um, can I tell 

Jonathan: you, can I tell you real quick, just. Out of the blue.

Yeah. A name drop story. Uh uh, so when Dave digs, when they were premiering, uh, blinds spotting mm-hmm. Um, there was a, there was a free premiere at the Angelica and we were like, we're gonna go. Mm-hmm. Um, but we way underestimated, I mean, I, it. Even knowing who David was at the time and how big he was, Jen and I still underestimated the, really the size of the fandom.

So we got there like a couple hours early to get in line and the line was four blocks long. And we were like, ah, shit. So, um, since we're boys, uh, name dropping, I texted David and was like, Hey man, we we're, we're hoping to see you, [00:04:00] but you know, wow, you guys have too many fans here. We're not gonna make it, but, uh, congrats and whatever.

And we, we instead got tickets to see three. Identical Strangers. That movie about the three, uh, twin or the three triplets that got split up at birth? You don't know it? Nope. We'll talk about it later. Okay. I think it's called Three Iden Identical Strangers. Three Identical Strangers. 

Tom: Oh yeah, I do know it.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Jonathan: Um, yeah. So we saw that movie, whatever, and then we're leaving. But David and Raphael are having a like meet and greet at a step and repeat, like on the way out. And we were like, eh, I don't know what to, so we like slid through and I was like, David, what's up man? And in the middle of his thing he was like, guys come here and like hugged and like, oh boy, hi.

No. I was like, and we just walked away. And I was like, that was. All those people were like, who is that? Nobody. Oh boy. But just a, just a friend. It was a nice little, anyway, uh, Angelica, thanks for, thanks for, okay. So, 

Tom: and the third, the third thing I wanted to further define for you was Gooning. 'cause I kind of like left you hanging.

Um, I wanted to consult my gay ancient textbooks 

Jonathan: Uhhuh. 

Tom: Um, you didn't leave me 

Jonathan: hanging though. [00:05:00] You, you could say you. Edged me. I did. Which is what 

Tom: Gooning is basically. Yeah. It's just like edging pro, prolonged, excessive, jerking off, um, either solo or with someone or often, um, they call 'em gooning caves.

It's like, um, online chats where it's like, you know, zoom, it's like a screen of guys gooning. Um, and you basically like edge over and over again. You get just as you're about to come, you stop, you pull back and you go again, and you get to a point where you're kind of like in a trance. Uh, it, it does something to you that's like.

Fun but weird, uh, and, uh, in a good way. And so that's Gooning and if you ever want to try it, I think, you know, we could. Cool. Okay, great. I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you. 

Jonathan: Yeah, it feels like it kind of like disproves the, uh, the entire, uh, platform of blue Balls though. Is that true? Like, uh, like the idea of blue balls, right?

Is like, it's usually used as like a, a motivator to, to a partner to like, well, 

Tom: but Blue Balls imp implies they get you all the way there and then they walk away, right? 

Jonathan: Edging 

Tom: is, they get you all the way there, pull back. [00:06:00] Get you there again. 

Jonathan: Okay. 

Tom: Pull back, get you there. So that's different. 

Jonathan: So it's, it's the quick breaks, it's the slamming on the brake of It's the total shutoff.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Gooning 

Tom: is not a shutoff you get, so you just back, back down. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Also, the gooning, there's like faces people end up making when they get to like, like, like kind of like the ones you made in your audition for that, uh, movie where you were the porn star, 

Jonathan: first of all, there was no gooning in that, that was hard coming right away.

So, yeah. But thank you. I'm, I'm glad that you, uh, remember and appreciate my audition tape. I do, I do. 

Tom: Um, yeah. So, uh, my, and then my only other real update from our lives is we were at a wedding this year, uh, this, this weekend, this past weekend. Uh, we were upstate at a, um, like a summer camp, like a Jewish summer camp for kids.

Um, a bougie one. Uh, but the, they, my friends rented it out for their wedding. Yeah. The kids weren't there. 

Jonathan: There wasn't, well 

Tom: there were kids. There were tons of kids. Sure. Um, but it was friends. Yeah. It was a huge wedding. Um, Katie and Gersh, two of my Burning Man friends that live in New York City, um, they're the most [00:07:00] amazing people.

Katie is, um, you know, there in lives in, in your life there are people that are connectors. Mm-hmm. People that know a lot of people. Uh, Quan calls them mayors. Katie is like the mayor of all mayors. Um, she is, uh, the center of. A lot of friend groups and she is constantly bringing in more people. And so, and, uh, her husband now Gersh is just, they're both amazing, amazing people and it's really nice to be at a wedding when you love both of the people and you love that they're together.

And, um, they have a son and he was there and he's just like three years old. And, uh, it was just like a really fun, fun. Fun weekend and Cool. Good. Yeah. And, um, so two of, uh, my Brener friends, uh, Eric and Michelle, both of whom you know. Mm-hmm. Um, they, uh, they both flew in for the wedding to LaGuardia and they took a car from LaGuardia into wherever they were staying in Brooklyn or the city.

Mm-hmm. And in the car they saw a hot shirtless guy running and. Uh, Eric joked to Michelle. Like, what, what if that's Jonathan? And then as the car got closer, it [00:08:00] actually was you. So I just thought you'd like to know that. Um, you were spotted, you were recognized on your run, apparently shirtless. Um, I'm a little mad that I don't have footage of that.

Jonathan: You gotta be kidding. The No, it was you. The odds of that I was such a. Ding bat last week. I was like, it was, it was a nice day I was running. Yeah. I'm trying, I, first of all, I have a half marathon coming up in like three weeks and I am not prepared. Mm-hmm. And so I was like, I, I guess I should run some.

And I had only like half an hour and that's, that's amazing. Yeah. I do not feel like I'm in the kind of shape to run with my shirt off. Um. I, I honestly was just gonna do such a quick turnaround, like run for half an hour and throw the shirt back on and go pick up the kids that I just was like, I'm not gonna sweat.

I'm just gonna leave this. Mm-hmm. Like literally, I mean I mm-hmm. I, that's so funny. You were recognized pro. That's so funny. And I was like in, I mean, I was near LaGuardia, but I was in Back Road. That's so funny. That's you have fans. Well, Eric and Michelle, thank you [00:09:00] for being kind. What about you? What's going on with you?

Um, well, yeah, tomorrow starts Rosh Hashanah, so Happy New Year. Um, lash 

Tom: Tova, or what is it? 

Jonathan: Yeah, just I don't just say Happy New Year. I don't know that. Okay. I think that one comes late. I don't know, man. Uh, no, no. That Jew ish, right? No, the, 

Tom: the later one is the, um, the, the, the, I was bad. I did these things bad this year.

Jonathan: Yeah. I don't know the words to say though. The, I don't, I don't, don't, don't. Ask follow ups. Just happy New Year. Okay. Happy New Year. Um, so that starts tomorrow, but I, last night we watched, uh, Jen Marco Re's new special, it's called Thief of Joy, and he's an, he's a, an Italian Jew here in New York. Um, he's really funny.

We, um, uh, okay, so balance out my David story. Uh, Jim, Marco and I. Uh, is this 

Tom: the one on YouTube? 

Jonathan: Yes, 

Tom: I've heard about this. Okay, I'm gonna watch it. It's really, 

Jonathan: he's like right on brand for us. Like, I'm okay. Actually, there's like multiple bits that I was like, Hey man, how come you stole my bit and made [00:10:00] it so much better?

Like, it's like he has a musical theater degree. He's straight, uh, he uses the word in the, in the, and I'm only, I'm not gonna give away anything other than this one thing, but he uses the word str it, um, which obviously is combination of straight and. Baguette, the kind of person who might eat a baguette, right?

Uhhuh. So they put those two words together. Um, but he is like, it's really funny. It's just very funny. Uh, like I think that anybody who gets our world, uh, will really appreciate the, the tie-ins to theater, family drama, uh, the life in New York, Italians and Jews. And like, it's, it's, it's just very good. So hats off to, uh, Jen Rezi, but I, I.

He and I were doing standup at the same time. At one point he was further along than I was, but we were at the same shows for a minute, and we met and we got to know each other kind of. And we, uh, over the years, spitballed some sketch ideas together and stuff. And I, I thought like, you know, we knew each other.

And so he was performing in Kansas City where my brother lives, and we were gonna be there at the time when he was [00:11:00] performing. And so I reached out and was like, Hey man, I'm gonna be in Kansas City. I'm gonna bring a bunch of people to your show. And he was like, awesome, we'll see you there. And we got to the show and he did it.

It was amazing. It was hilarious. Everyone loved it. This is the one that was recorded? No, no, no. Okay. I mean, he was working on it. Okay. This was, this was, uh, like a year ago. And so there's plenty of jokes that we heard live that were in the show, but no, not like the, the one that he recorded. But, um, I went up to him after the show and was like, prepared to be like, Hey, I made it, you know, like, and he, he was like, I was like, Hey man, uh, I came in from New York with all my friends.

He was like, oh. Thanks so much for being here, man. Like it had no, I, no idea. Like, just like did not know who I was. Um, which was a little bit of a letdown 'cause I just told my, like all my friends and family that I was like, I know the comedian we're going to see, and this is no shame on no, like no shade that John Marco at all.

I just misunderstood where, you know, we were, and he's on the road and whatever. But it was like certainly kind of a. I mean, I owned it. I took it on the chin. I was like, guys, I'm sorry. I guess he, we, I, I don't know him. I mean, he doesn't know me. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] So you can tell him Good show, but that's, that's funny.

But, uh, shout out to g Marco Thief of Joy. It's very funny. I can't wait to watch. 

Tom: I'm pretty sure the Times just wrote an article that was like, the funniest comedy special is on YouTube right now. 

Jonathan: Really? Yeah. That's great. 

Tom: So it must, it must be him. I think it is. Yeah. I'll check it 

Jonathan: out. Yeah, it's really good.

And it's like, it's just, it's really good. It's really polished. It's, it's very, it's very. It's just very good. Um, so we did that last night, but this past weekend, I, I was finally so good to get back into some of my, some of my roots. I got to go to Home Depot, uh, for a couple hours and I just haven't been able to do that for a while.

And it just felt good to be like. I'm a man. I'm building new window boxes for our flowers, for our flower boxes and, you know, off, off our windows. I gotta get some stuff and build some stuff. And, um, of course I couldn't do it all in one trip. It took me two trips 'cause I forgot stuff. I have a list, like this is my A-D-H-D-I have a list and I'm going down the list and I just skipped things on the list.

I just, I still like, even the list doesn't work for me. [00:13:00] Just once you have it in the cart, delete it off the list. Sure. That sounds like a great idea. I can try that. Yeah, I mean, it does, like my, when I was in, I was a care shop. Um, I mean, I don't, frankly, like Uhhuh Jen finds ways around me doing the shopping all the time and I want to, 'cause I absolutely like hate the idea of not being, uh, like of, of her mental load being so much more, you know, and I'm like, I can do it.

I can fucking shop. I know like I'm not bad at getting the stuff. I know when lettuce is bad. I know how to check the fruit. I know how to check expiration dates on things. But I will absolutely. Just be looking at the list and leave something off the list. It's 

Tom: it, that's crazy. I mean, the, the fun of a list is crossing things off.

Jonathan: That's a good point. Your point, you're missing out 

Tom: on half it. 

Jonathan: I'm 

Tom: not 

Jonathan: even getting the fun part of a list. That's a good point. No. All right. I would keep that in mind. It does 

Tom: make me think about, um, home Depot made me think about Sniffy. Do you know Sniffy? 

Jonathan: Um, uh, no. I only know that there's problems with, uh, that, that.

[00:14:00] There's sting problems, right? That they're Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Tom: So, um, um, s Sniffy is a gay dating, it's not quite an app, it's a brow, it's like an online website. Um, it can't be an app because of legal reasons to do, uh, uh, because it's a geolocator. So you actually see where everybody is on the map. Um, and I think, uh, like, uh, apple has.

Legal issues around that. Mm. So, um, like Grindr, that's different 

Jonathan: from Yeah. Yeah. So let's, Grindr 

Tom: tells you how many, how far away someone is, but you don't know where, in what direction that is. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. It's like one mile away. It could be in, in any direction. Gotcha. So on sniffy, you more or less see a map and it sniffy is more about, um, quick hip hookups right away.

Even more. I know this sounds crazy than like Grindr. Um, and you can also check into places that are like cruising spots. So ho Home Depots are frequently. Home Depot, bathrooms really frequently cruising spots, but, uh, apparently, um, the NYPD is now using sniffy to entrap gay men who are, uh, [00:15:00] checking into the bathrooms at Port Authority.

And, um, first I wanna say that, um, you know, I don't necessarily condone, I don't think that. We should be looking for and having sex in public bathrooms. Um, but I don't think, you know, this kind of, um, policing is, is something that the gay community has been dealing with for a long time and it's, there's just something really horrible about it and nasty about it.

And, um. So if for my gay friends that are using sniffy and checking into public bathrooms, maybe be careful right now. Be aware. Sure. Um, 'cause it's, 

Jonathan: uh, dangerous out there. Um, I also heard, I look, this is, uh, okay. All the most no homo of, of no homo research and our, I'm. Our libel is about to go through the roof, but I saw, you know, in passing that Grindr, um, uh, was having trouble.

The platform was having trouble keeping up with all of the, uh, usage in Arizona for the, uh, memorial service this week. Um, yeah. 

Tom: Uh, it happens [00:16:00] with the Republican conventions. Yeah. Every time it happens at the conservative. Conference in Florida every year. I love it. It's, it's, 

Jonathan: I love it. 

Tom: Especially compared to the Democratic conventions, it's not as much.

I love it so much. Yeah. I 

Jonathan: love that. That's such a fun, that's such a fun, just piece of trivia every time. There. Also, I 

Tom: just saw a map of, um, what porn is most watched and red states have the highest, um, the most watched porn in red states is trans. Trans. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, and now they're, they're trying to designate trans as a terrorist.

Um. Terrorist designation, so, uh, you know, yeah. So I wanna jump into current events. Great. And, uh, I know we spent a while on Charlie Kirk last week, and I don't, you know, want to spend much more time there now, but I just want to go on the record as saying that I truly, actually think when we look back, um.

50 years from now, a hundred years from now, Charlie Kirk's assassination is the beginning of something different has started. We've been in something for the last 10 years since Trump came down, that golden escalator. We have been in a new [00:17:00] something that we haven't, we're we're, we're just starting to even define, you know, the Trump era right now.

We've been in that. But I do think this is the beginning of something else. It feels it. I feel it in my bones. I feel it in conversations with people. I feel it in watching the news. I feel it. Watching social media, watching how people are behaving with each other. Um, I feel it in conversations I've had with my own family.

Um, and I, uh, I, I just, it feels like things are a powder kick right now. I don't know what this means. I don't know if it's a good direction we're gonna go in or a bad one. Um, but it feels, uh, it feels like we're in it. And, um, yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's a lot. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Um, that memorial service was, was strange.

I mean, I only watched little clips, so, you know, I'm, I mean, I, I. It's, I can't speak on it, but it was, it was a real rally. It was a real, uh, uh, it felt like a maga rally. The, the clips that I saw were, I mean, it's just, it's big time and uh, yeah. I. [00:18:00] I don't know. I guess speaking of like the, the powder keg of it all, um, not to promote violence, but I would like to, uh, throw a little curve ball into our normally, uh, schedule programming and move my, uh, who would you fight up a little sooner in the episode?

Okay. Because I, do you need the, 

Tom: do you need the 

Jonathan: song? Yes, I, yeah, actually I do need the song. Okay. Yeah. 

Tom: Um, who would you fight? Who would you fight? 

Jonathan: Pow, pow. Nice man. Off, off the cuff too. I'm so glad you have that. Just locked and loaded no matter what. Yeah, it's a little different every time. Professional man.

I'm really impressed. Jazz. Um, so this week, uh, I would like to fight, uh, Andy and go and go. Um. Uh, Andy NGO is a, uh, right wing provocateur who masquerades as a journalist who sometimes like Fox News or, uh, whoever else, whoever's like right-leaning enough will, will allow him to be called to call [00:19:00] himself a journalist.

Um, he wrote a book called Unmasked Inside Antifa Radical Plan To Destroy Democracy. Um, and my problem. With Andy, uh, is really even not like, yeah, I wanna fight him. Uh, but it's not even my problem's, not with him, it's with this like bigger picture because, um, and this is like, uh, a little bit tough I guess.

Uh, this is not something I've talked about outwardly. Um, 'cause I like to keep, usually I think family stays within family, but my dad has been following and like doing his own research on this guy Andy Eaton go and, and somehow. Somehow has gotten convinced that Andy and his views on Antifa are the only truth, you know, in the way that the like, like there's no convincing him otherwise.

And my dad, like this is a. This is a tough conversation for me because my dad is an incredibly smart man. My dad was an aerospace engineer. My dad, like, it is just a, [00:20:00] a, a academics matter to my dad, and scholarship matters to my dad. And, uh, somewhere along the way, he got the, I mean, it feels almost like the pipeline, the, the rabbit holes that we hear about.

Like he, he's not. A a mean racist. He's very conservative and there's probably some, some, some meanness. If you get progressive enough around him, there's, you know, there's some of that. He's, he's a conservative guy for sure, and hasn't been interested in learning new things for a while, and that's always been a little tough.

But o over the past decade, he has like gotten swept up in this and is still like, not a. Not a hat wearing flag waving maga Trumper, but like still considers himself an academic and, and considers and is, is proud of his research and still has ended up following, like [00:21:00] closely following and listening to this guy who it takes zero time to it.

Uh, like, I don't even wanna talk about the details of Andy and go, 'cause it doesn't matter, like it's immediate that he is, he's doing exactly what he sets out to do. He is, he is a provocateur. He is a, he is literally protected by the proud boys. He's like proud boy adjacent. He films a bunch of their rallies and then like they start shit and they fight and someone fights him back and then.

It's like he writes about how Antifa started a fight and like, um, Antifa, that is not a centralized organization. Uh, yeah. So it's like the boogeyman, right? 

Tom: Yeah. And so 

Jonathan: like, the details don't even matter for me. Uh, and I, I know we're like scratching the record, um, and putting who would you fight early and kind of just jumping into vulnerable bros too.

But I would, I've just never in my, the last few years of like. Having a platform on social media and being considered whatever kind of content creator. And I talk about my family plenty, [00:22:00] but, um, this is just one that, I mean, frankly, it, it embarrasses me, but also I haven't known how to talk about it because it, it's, I, I don't know.

It's, it's one of the reasons that I feel Okay. Talking about it is a, it feels a little bit like a last straw for me. Kind of like, like this powder cake, like something is changing. Like I can't just like. I can't just let my dad keep, I, I can't not say anything and he knows how I feel. We had a, a falling out before this, uh, past election.

Um, but I, uh, I don't know. It's, I've been trying to look back and see if I can figure out how we got here, and I think part of it. For me and my family to take it totally out of this thing, out of this past decade, out of whatever next thing is coming. My family, my, the family I grew up with, I always have said like, [00:23:00] did the best they could.

Tried hard. My parents tried my, it was the eighties and nineties in the south there, there's kind of like, there was a box that was gonna be, and I don't even blame them for that, but the, the. Avoidance of ever talking about anything real, I think is part of what has gotten us here. Uh, like, like I, in thinking about there are, there are many more, um, real, there are many more like genuine and, and sad or whatever stories, um, that kind of illustrate this.

But one story I was thinking about why I had this in my head was, um. When I, and it relates to all of this, when, uh, I was in college, I came home for a weekend and I, uh, a side story. Our, our house, my family's house had gotten broken into a couple of times recently in that, in that era. So they had gotten security cameras.

That was a brand new thing for me to even, like, they, there had never been cameras when I was there. Um. And there were some [00:24:00] inside because this guy was like sneaking in and just like stealing a couple things that he could take on a bike with him. So it wasn't like a big break in, it was like one or two things were just going missing at a time.

So there are cameras inside and, um, I forgot about that part, but I remembered that the late night Cinemax worked. So I was on the couch by myself one night. Uh, gooning not, not Gooning, not, not gooning, didn't, didn't wait for that one at all. Just went right for it. Whoa. Um, and. After it was like the, uh, you know, the PNC, the, the post not clarity, like the camera above the, uh, the tv like zoomed into focus for me and I was like, fuck, I don't know how to do about that.

Where is that footage? God damnit. So I like, I, I, I didn't know what I was like, I guess could. Throw the camera away. I can just, so I went about, I went to bed and the next day, at some point [00:25:00] I was like in the office, uh, on the computer, and my dad walks in and he goes, uh, hey Jonathan. I was like, oh, yep. He goes, he goes, uh, you know that we have cameras now, right?

And I go, I just said, yeah, I forgot for a minute, but I do know that. And he went, okay. That was it. Wait, wait. 

Tom: So questions. Um, I know you're trying to get to a bigger point here, but you're gonna have to deal with this. Yeah, we could. That's fine. It's not of 'em. Um, what, where were they? 

Jonathan: Ow. W uh, asleep. It was like asleep, 

Tom: midnight.

But did your dad just go back and watch all footage on the camera at all times? Or like how It's like 

Jonathan: motion so you can like click through it. And the scary thing is like, I don't know who all in my family saw it, because I think all he would like pull it up on the TV and click through and like you might Oh, so it would be like, you know, like It would, it would, it would.

It would start Uhhuh when motion came through. So it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of the day nothing's happening. Click, click, click hours. But it meant that 

Tom: like daily, he would do a click through to see. 

Jonathan: [00:26:00] Yeah. 

Tom: Because with the killer come in through the windows or like the killer,

Jonathan: the, what are we in 

Tom: Sweeps all a sudden we had to amp up 

Jonathan: for ratings. 

Tom: The robber. The robber. The robber. Um, oh my God. So, but would he come in when? When he had been coming in? Were they at home? 

Jonathan: Uh, uh, actually, uh, my sister was home sick one day. My little sister at the time, she was six or seven, um, uh, was sick in her bedroom and like by 

Tom: herself.

Home alone? 

Jonathan: Yeah. I mean, she was older than that. She was not six, I'm sorry. Yes, because she was by herself. Yeah. Charlotte Services. But I mean, like, I mean by nine or 10 you're saying home by herself? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she was old enough to do that. That was that the weird part of that. Um, it was the nineties, you know, so, um, or the two thousands.

Um, and did she encounter the killer? No, but he would just like,

you know what, yeah, we should be pumping it up, I guess. Why not? It's, it's all for ratings anyway, right? Like Yeah. The killer, the killer did not. [00:27:00] They, she not encountered the killer. Okay, 

Tom: so now I understand why he was watching the tape. 'cause that part was confusing to me. Yeah. Okay, so continue on. So, literally, guy would, 

Jonathan: like, a guy would like a a, a teenager would come by and who knows how much in the neighborhood he was casing.

But he would like play basketball in our, in our front yard, in our, we had a low basketball court. He played basketball for a minute there and then like, make sure no one. Paying attention. He'd go in the backyard. He just would look like a kid playing. Yeah. He'd go in the backyard and then he would climb up and through one of the windows, Uhhuh.

Um, which is also how I would break into that house if I got home late and they blocked me out and I had to get in the house. In the house. Um, yeah. So, um, they, because he was only taken what he could carry on a bike, one of our bikes that he had stolen, um, he was taken a little bit, little stuff at a time, so it wasn't like.

So he would have to check through all the cameras in the house to see if he'd come through. Yeah. And grab something from this room or that room, you know, whatever. Um, so one of the things that, that set off the motion detector that night was, you know, my, yeah. My motion. Um, yeah. Um, and that was like, that's a pretty.[00:28:00] 

It. You know what? It didn't even like bother me at the time. At the time I didn't, I didn't think because my dad was super present. He was like the coach of all my teams. He was like, he made a point, his work schedule was to go in very early so that he was done with his eight hour day by three o'clock and could be around for the afternoons for kids.

Um, and he coached all of our teams and he was around for evenings all the time and like, not an emotional person, but I didn't even. Like later I realized like, oh, I could have used some more emotional support. But like, you know, he was a dad in the eighties and nineties. That was not really it. He was, he was more present than any other dad that I, I knew.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I don't really know what happened except for kind of like, I mean, I didn't, I, I guess I didn't like see it coming except for like when my parents retired and moved to the beach, like once there was less. Structure for us to see each other and for us to communicate. It just got [00:29:00] less because we did not have that emotional, that we didn't have the, the communication, we didn't have something created.

Like when I went to, I frankly, as an adult, I. I understand that it's not strange, but it feels strange that people talk to their parents as often as they do. Yeah. Like, you know, I have friends who daily check in with their parents, and certainly weekly have phone calls. You know, I don't know. Do you, like, do you talk to your parents?

No, no. Yeah. 

Tom: Once a week. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. And yeah, not, um, I, I always feel like, um, I am, there's something, there's a deficit in my family that I'm not one of those families that we talk 

Jonathan: every day. 

Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For 

Jonathan: a, for a long time I felt good about that, honestly. I was like, yeah, we don't like. I, I think that I, I don't know, I was angry about plenty at first.

Uh, I was angry, you know, growing up and leaving the house. I, there was plenty to be angry about. Then I got out and I was like, okay, well now I can chill out. Like all the things that I was butting up against when I lived. There don't have to be things now because I don't have to do it in their house. I don't have to figure out who I am under their watch, you know, under [00:30:00] their roof.

Um, but we still never got more into, you know, real communication. Um, and I. I think that part of the problem is that my family, like my, my, my mom really wanted us to be a family, wants us now, like, wants us to be a family. But I think, and through no fault of her own, because I love her, she's a very, she tries very hard, but like.

I don't know if this just, I don't know if this just goes through her mind or not, but I said to her this week, in response to all of this happening, she was talking about the relationship and what's gonna happen and how, how it is very stressed right now and really tough right now. And she was talking about the relationship and I said, it sometimes feels like the relationship is more important than the people involved.

And that's just not, I can't do that. Like, it feels like the, the, the package of a, the package of a family, the package of a. What we're supposed to be, you [00:31:00] know, if it's at Christmas, if it's whatever, it's at photos, if it's at a wedding, if it's at whatever it is, like the thing that we're supposed to be is more important than the people involved in it.

Tom: Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: And I mean, that was kind of the end of that conversation, but, um, 'cause it's, and I don't falter for this, like, it's hard for her to talk about stuff, uh, sh Um, but I, I, I've been angry, I mean. I don't think that's a, you don't say really. I've been angry. I've been angry specifically at my dad for a long time, and I, I, I think that the truth is just like I miss my dad.

I like, I'm, it's been, it was like really easy to, once he start, like he said some shitty things, uh, a decade ago. But that I, it was like in a, in a pokey kind of like when, before we knew how bad this was gonna get, you know? Um, and I never really forgave him for, for that [00:32:00] because we didn't have the, the found the communication under it.

He said to me one time when, when he found out that Jen was pregnant with Caleb, our, our first kid. He said to me, the one thing that he wished he had done differently was let us know that we could come to him more often. He said he wanted to teach us resilience. He wanted to give us the, the chance and the strength to do it on our own.

Tom: Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: But he wished he had given us, he wished he had let us know that it was okay to come to him with more. And I, I remember like when he said that, I thought, oh. Cool. Like this is a moment, like this is a moment where things are going to change now. Yeah. And then it wasn't, it's like that was said, but it was like, oh, well missed that chance, I guess.

And like we never, instead of we far from moving toward that, we moved further away from it. [00:33:00] And I don't know, like it's just, and it's like driven by politics right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So part of the problem is yes, it is. And like, I know people who are still very, like, they're MAGA Republicans and I, I would think like they're smart people.

I don't know what they're doing. This is insane and shitty that they think this, that they believe this stuff, but they're also really active in their kids and grandkids lives or whatever, you know, like are they, they care like clearly. They are putting their family first and they have their beliefs, but they're putting their family first.

And that's one of the things that has been making me mad, frankly. And it's, it's because I feel rejected because he is still choosing that stuff. And in 

Tom: what way is he choosing that over the family? 

Jonathan: Um, I mean by, there's not a, there's not a one of us who agrees with him. Mm-hmm. And he wants to [00:34:00] poke and wants to talk about it and is not.

He, there's a lot of positives, a lot of impressive stuff about my dad. He's never admitted to being wrong, though, that I've heard, like, ever, you know, like as a kid, that was just a thing I had to get used to. Like, it was, I, I always felt like it was more of a, like, adults, adults are right and kids are wrong.

Like, that's probably the way it's gonna go. And then I realized like, oh, my dad just like, can't be wrong. And I, I keep waiting for, I keep, I keep thinking like. This is getting bad enough that he's a, he's a moral man. He's a smart man. This is gonna, at some point he's gonna be like, whoa, that's actually too much.

Even if he doesn't go back and say all of this was wrong, he's gonna go, this is too much. And it just keeps not happening. And I, I don't know. I, I, the last time we talked, I said, I, I said, I, I, I said, I just missed my dad and it, it, it didn't. Nothing came of that. [00:35:00] Um, which is like, I don't know, uh, it's hard to not, it's, it's, it's much easier to just like, stay mad about that than to recognize, like, feel like, oh, he 

Tom: didn't respond to that.

Jonathan: No. Um, like it was like nothing a, nothing like a non-response. Um, actually what he did was, uh, he, he, he didn't reference that part at all. He just, um, he said. That he felt like I have been really angry and that he didn't know what was going on with me and why I was so angry. And he even said that when I started going to therapy.

He thought it would, he hoped it would help, but it seems like I've only gotten more angry since then. Um, which was like, I mean, I guess kind of a. Self-fulfilling prophecy. I was like, well, yeah, that makes me angry. Like, that's like, I, I am angry because I, because I'm seeing more of this stuff like, don't 

Tom: mm-hmm.

Jonathan: Fucking gaslight me right now. Like, like, 

Tom: yeah. [00:36:00] 

Jonathan: Um, so it's easy to stay mad at that. It's easy to be mad at that. It's, it's an easy, it is, you know, without, it's easier to sit in that space and just be mad. And I am finally. And I, I've been mad this week. I'm still just like, sometimes I can just be like mad about it and I'd be like, you fucking moron.

Like, what are you doing? How are you, how are you doing this? Um, but like the truth is I just like sad and it's hard to feel like that's a more to deal with and be like, not really for me at least like a motivating emotion. So like. It is easier to like click into anger and be like, all right, what do we do?

How do I control this? How do I make this situation more manageable? How do I get control over the uncontrollable? And, uh, I mean, I, you know, the truth is you, the answer is you can't. I'm just having a hard time with with that. Is 

Tom: he, like, in terms of how it got here, um, did they have like [00:37:00] lots of friends in a community when you were growing up where you grew up?

Jonathan: Yeah. So I think, and does he now? No, I think that's a big part of it. I think that when we talk about like the, the loneliness crisis of young men. Yeah. 'cause like third, third places and teams and, you know, even school, it's, it's more, um, isolated. It's not as much group. And I think that. I, I don't know. I started to say we are not paying attention to you.

Maybe it's just me. 'cause I'm just like, maybe I've been behind, uh, getting here to this point. But yeah, he, he absolutely was, uh, a deacon and a Sunday school teacher and was a chaperone in every trip and was a coach or an assistant coach. He built the sets for our shows at school. Shout out Lee High School.

We did bang and musicals. So, you know, we'd go to the International Thespian Festival in Lincoln, Nebraska and he would help. He built a set for these kind of things. And so like, he was super involved and then they retired and like when they retired, uh, my mom has stayed active and like wants to visit [00:38:00] grandkids and like wants to do stuff and stay active.

And my dad was like, happy to fish. He was like, great, I can fish and I can chill out. 

Tom: Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: And honestly I was like, cool man. Like you've been working very hard. All like around the clock for 20 years. So, or you know, 30 years by the time my sister was gone, do what you gotta do. Like take your time, rest.

But it. I can't help but think that he did not. 

Tom: Yeah. I mean it, other handful of guys he found 

Jonathan: were just like that too. They were all just like that. And there's a, there was a small group of the exact same kind Chinese and just like that. Yeah. Oh, wow. See what I did there? Wow. 

Tom: It, it does sound a bit like it's a recipe for tinfoil hat and down some dark rabbit holes and Yeah.

Um, I mean I, there's some men in my family that I think, uh, in my extended family that I think that's exactly the problem. There's just time on the internet going down some weird dark rabbit holes and, um, it's this symptom of people [00:39:00] not trusting the news and, um, yeah. That's scary. I don't know. Yeah. 

Jonathan: That was one of the things I, I said to him was.

And like just this, this, this need to always be right. That he's, he's always been an advice giver. And when I was a young child and a young man, that was great. It was great to have, he even like literally coined the phrase, I mean he, whatever he would call it old. He'd be like, I'm gonna give you some old man advice and whatever.

Give yeah. You know, some little piece of wisdom or whatever. And I thought that was great, but it just never shifted. I, I feel like he doesn't think that I or any of his kids or anyone younger can offer him. New information. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: Um, 

Tom: well, I know what it's like to live in a family that I think doesn't talk as much as you hope.

Um, I feel, you know, I mean, I grew up in Connecticut, um, so it's that like, uh, I think, and we weren't like waspy we're Italian and Polish, um, like very lower middle class upbringing. But um, it's still that [00:40:00] sort of, um, northeast like. Keep emotions hidden and um, surface and um, you know, there's like. S tough stories from my family's past that I didn't hear about.

I, in my opinion, so like way too late and only with like, sort of me nudging and pushing to hear about them. Yeah. And even then I feel like sometimes like I didn't get the whole story. And um, yeah, like my, I remember as I got older and I got into high school and my parents were like always like, you never talk to us.

You never talk to us. And part of that was. Like being gay and knowing I was, and so I was like hiding and feeling like I couldn't be real. But we also hadn't established that they hadn't established like we were a family that talked about real things. Yeah. And, um, and, and, and not. Ever. Like, you know, I mean also they, they were amazing parents.

They, they did a great job and, um, uh, just like you're describing your dad, they were very involved in our upbringing and they let [00:41:00] us lead the way in terms of what we wanted to do. And then they supported that. Like these were, these are really good people who did a good job bringing up two kids that I think that they did a good job bringing up.

Yeah. Um, so don't get me wrong, far from it, but, um, I. I do feel like they're, and, and, and, and I, and I dare say it's just how they were raised. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So when you don't have a blueprint about how to be real with your kids. Um, and so I guess what I would say to you is, I don't have any advice for you about your dad, but make sure you go outta your way to try and be real with your kids.

Jonathan: I'll tell you what, that's like my, the biggest thing I, I always say. First of all, Jen and I always say our, our our, our only goal is to fuck our kids up differently than we were fucked up. I think I said that to Jim. Mm-hmm. 

Tom: Um, 

Jonathan: like, you're gonna get something wrong. You're gonna get some, there's something, something they're going to, something's gonna fuck 'em to some degree.

There's gonna be trauma, little T or capital [00:42:00] T. There's gonna be something by the time they're an adult. We just wanna do it differently than it was done to us. And I really think that all you can do is try to be a click or two. Better than your parents were, whatever, you know, more, whatever, more anything.

Mm-hmm. And clearly I have not been able to shake the temper, but, um, rupture and repair that we've talked about before, I was like, the, the, that's the best I can do is I absolutely, like, um, I apologize to my kids all the time. Every time something like that happens, I mean, probably not every time, but like I, as often as I can, I can't stop.

The pop off, sometimes, plenty of the time I still can't stop it, but I can come back down and say, Hey, I'm really sorry. Like I, I don't think we should be doing this thing. But I did not mean to, like, my yelling is not you, my yelling is me. Or like, the reason I got so mad is because I don't know, I, because I'm still working on how to handle my emotions.[00:43:00] 

Mm-hmm. So that's not 'cause you did anything wrong. That's just, I'm working on that. And now they know that. So they were like. If I get loud, they'll be like, dad, do you need our sensory bottle? Do you need to work on your emotions? And like, in fight or flight, I'm like, fuck you, child. Like, no. Like, oh yeah, you're, you're actually, you're right.

I, that's so, you know, who knows? Like, I mean, we, I, you know, we won't know. Um, there's, there's some, there's plenty of science that says that that kind of thing can help, but also there's gonna be something that, that we get wrong and we'll find out about it. Of course. And you said to me one time, I, maybe the first time, an early time that we were talking about my dad.

I remember you saying to me that with all the, the, the work that I've done and the, the, the intention that I have to better myself and a big part on behalf of my kids so that I can be a better dad. Um, that you, you hope and think that I will be at a point that when they tell me what I did wrong, I can hear it.

Tom: Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: And I can accept it and I [00:44:00] can apologize whatever comes next, but, but not deflect it and not. Not come up with an excuse to not hear it, but, and I think about that a lot. So I really appreciate you saying that when you did. Uh, 'cause I don't think I'd ever thought about it that way. Mm-hmm. I was always thinking more like in the now, you know, how can I be more present?

Can I be more honest? Can I be more vulnerable now? 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: But knowing that something's gonna be there. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: And the, just the ability that's like a thing that now I think I'm kind of always keeping in mind. Down the road. This is gonna happen. It's going to happen. It's gonna, there's gonna be something. And I want them to be able to tell me, and I want to be able to hear it when they tell me.

Tom: Yeah. Well, I'm sure you will. Thanks, man. You're welcome. You're welcome. Um, thank you for sharing all that. I, um, I'm sorry that you're going through that. Um, thanks, man. It's tough to, it's this, these times are fraught. It's a powder keg. Yeah. Uh, like I said, and, um, feeling the powder keg in your own family is, uh, rough.

And [00:45:00] I am sorry to say I think it's gonna get worse, but I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Um, but, uh, yeah. So some No homework, no homo work. Sure, no homo work. Homo, 

Jonathan: no homo work, no homo 

Tom: work. Uh, there's, uh, the next king no kings protest is October 18th. So, uh, I made a plan. I'm going to visit my family that weekend.

And my sister and I made a plan to go to that together. Amazing. Which I was excited about. So they're happening all over the country. Yeah. And I challenge you to, uh, make a plan, giving you notice now, um, and, uh, you know, there is a, uh, study, uh, that I think it's 3.5%, but I could be wrong on the, uh, exact number, but there's a, there's a study on protest, peaceful protest.

In countries where there are major issues with government and government heading in the wrong direction and people wanting to make change and when they, when enough people show up to the protest, change actually does happen. But you have to meet that number. And we [00:46:00] were, I wanna say it's 3.5 and I wanna say we hit 1.8 at the last Snow Kinks protest at 1.8.

Million. Um, I could be wrong about those numbers, but it's something like that. And so like, um, just showing up matters. Just showing up to a protest matters. Yeah. You don't need to scream your face off. You don't need to make a sign. Uh, but it, like literally the numbers, the number of people being there, huge, huge, huge deal.

Um, and I'll do my, who would you fight really quick? Do you want to see me in? 

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay. Who would you fight? Who would you fight? How. Pow. Oh, it's like spoken word? Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. Wow. That's impressive.

Tom: Wow. Um, I wanna fight. Um, not only the, I, it's not even the apps themselves, but I want to fight people. That need to spend money on a special app that you download and you have to [00:47:00] actually pay for, and that special app looks through all your shit to tell you what subscriptions you have that you can cancel.

I wanna pay the people that need that app to do that because that is such fucking, you wanna privilege the people. You wanna fight the people? Yeah. Oh, did, what did I say? I want to pay them. You say wanna pay them? Yeah. I, I wanna fight them. Um, it's such privilege. I can't imagine, like I comb through my statements.

I cannot afford to be paying for HBO go twice a month. And if you are out there and you can, and you could just like, and then just like casually be like, oh, I should download one of those apps one of these days to just like, I just can't even fathom a world where you don't know what it is you're subscribing to.

Look, some of us. Some of us have, 

Jonathan: some of us miss the, some of us don't understand the joy of crossing things off the list. You know, like it's just a thing that we've missed out on. I under listen. I do, I 

Tom: do understand the reality of like you see on your bill of subscription that you didn't remember that you still have.

I get that that's happened and I've been like, fuck, I need to cancel that. That was a waste of 25 bucks right there. I get that. That's a [00:48:00] normal human thing. But it like how, like, are you, or do people just not look at their, their credit card statements? I mean like what? First of all, yes, 

Jonathan: correct. Obviously there are people that do that.

People don't, and also like that it's, I think that any like find a need, find a quick fix, anything that you can take, that a person can take off of their plate is gonna sell. Like, like that is like, yeah. Yeah. You're like, yes, I'm losing my, I know for a fact I'm losing money, but I'm not gonna do it. So there a thing that the truth, and so I wanna 

Tom: fight the people that pay for that.

Yeah. Because that's bullshit and privilege. And you deserve, deserve to, you should. 

Jonathan: You should charge people to do that for them. You're good at it and you like doing it. You should. In fact, you should be like, I'm gonna fight you, or you can pay me to do it for you. All right. All 

Tom: right. On that, why don't you read this out?

Jonathan: Okay. Am my, am my Who would you fight? Uh, beat, uh, uh, beat Neck. Sure. Sure.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to No Hoa with Jonathan and [00:49:00] Tom on all podcast platforms and YouTube graphics and music by Matt Ladner And an Al thanks to Jen Dornbach and Quan Williams. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes.

Only almost expressed you kind of Yeah, I know. Yeah. Got a little funky. Yeah, Ottum 

Tom: was impressive though. 

Jonathan: Thanks, man. All right. Love you. I love you.