The Cock Clock is Ticking

Things heat up this week as Jonathan and Tom swap stories about unexpected man-crushes and wet dreams. They reveal their Kinsey Test results, Jonathan makes Tom a surprising vow, and the conversation gets personal as they revisit early sexual memories and formative experiences.

Transcript

Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's up? What's up? We did it. This is no Homo with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. I'm Tom. What are we doing here? Here we, we are happening, what, on episode 

Tom: number 16 on Monday, October 6th. Mm. 

Jonathan: Hopefully, yeah. Hopefully we're recording it. This is work. Yeah, we are, we are, we are well into trying to do this.

This is take, if you hearing us, if, if you're seeing this, it means that, uh, it worked and some message has gotten out. We have been able, yeah, because this is take five, right? Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's some false starts, but we here, we're doing it. Uh, yeah. False starts. Uh, we're doing it. We made it, uh.

And here we are. Let's do it. Here we are. How, how? Tell me about your week. I'll tell. I'm good. Okay. Um, you go 

Tom: first. 

Jonathan: Okay. I'll go first. Um, let me do, uh, I'll tell, Hey, how, how about I tell the story that I tried telling before it, I can't even, I don't know how to false. Start the get. Okay. 

Tom: Tell me the story.

I'm just gonna 

Jonathan: do it live. I need, take a moment. And now I'm gonna tell you about a parenting mishap I had earlier in the week. It was, uh, Caleb's, uh, baseball practice. He had practice [00:01:00] last week, and we got there a little bit early. Um, and, uh, we were warming up, so I was like, you know, rolling him some grounders and he was throwing 'em back to me.

And he's six and a half. It's his second year playing, you know, little league baseball. And he's, you know, not a a, a phenom, but he. Pretty good for a six and a half year old. So he is like scooping it up and throwing it back to me and it's going well. And then he wanted to do some, some pop flies. So, you know, there's a, there's a lot of mechanics that, that, that go into having to like, catch the ball in the air a lot more than just getting it off the ground.

Right. So he is not really adept at the, in the air part yet. So I was like really kinda. Tossing softly tossing him these little, these little throws. And they, a couple of them like luckily fell into his glove. So he was getting amped up and feeling good about it. And so he stepped back and he wanted bigger ones.

And I was like, Hey bud, let's, let's stay close. And he was like, no, I want a big, so he stepped back and I threw him kind of a, um, um, a harder, a little bit bigger, uh, throw. And it went right past his glove. Clocked him in the eye, clocked him right in the eyebrow. Oh 

Tom: no. [00:02:00] And 

Jonathan: yeah, and he dropped. And, uh, and Jen was there and saw it happen, and came running over and other parents are watching.

So, so now I've, I've also got like the shame of knowing that everyone here knows that I just hit my son in the face with a baseball and I go up to him and he, he's like, got his hands in his face, you know, of course he's crying and he looks up and it's the biggest fucking like. A full golf ball is behind his eyebrow here.

And I was like, oh, oh no. Oh no. And Jen immediately was like, do we need to go to the emergency room? And I, I was like, I think that this is like, that's like a sensitive spot. I think we're okay. It's not, it's not bleeding. He's not his eyes, his pupils are okay. We're all okay. I was not a hard throw, but it was a throw.

Um, and he, to his credit, fast forward 'cause it took a while. You know, he was, he was like, I don't wanna play baseball. I'm done with baseball. I'm done. And he, I held him for a few minutes and we got some ice from the bodega and put it on his eye. And before long he, uh, wanted to go back to play, to practice.

So I was really, I was really proud of him [00:03:00] and impressed with his, uh, resiliency for that. Um, plus. Jen and one of the other moms there, um, kind of gave him the, the, uh, I don't know, the, they, they had some, a good reframe to it, which was, it's almost Halloween. And having like a gnarly black eye for Halloween would be super cool.

So we actually got really excited. It actually hasn't turned out to be that much like a black eye. Uh, and it's, he's kind of, now, he's now he's like bummed because it's like fine. It's not much of anything. And he really wanted like a gross black, big purple and black, black eye. Um. But I, uh, you know, I had to deal with that.

It felt, it felt horrible. Um, I've gotten a lot of feedback that's made me feel better that people, you know, people have just said, like, it does, it does happen at some point. You know, like you, you are a part of hurting your kids at some point. Um-huh. Which is, you know, it doesn't exactly like make it better, but, uh, it does help to know that like.

That happens. So, and he doesn't seem to hold it against me at all, so I think we're good. Um, but that was early the week. That was, he 

Tom: knows the world is a horrible place. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:00] You know what, there've been more than one time that this was one of those times and I said, I'm really sorry man. I'm really sorry.

And then we were at a party this weekend and a kid was kind of being mean to him. And I again, I was like, I'm really sorry. Also, man, sometimes. Things kind of suck. Uh, like I'm so, I'm sorry. It is not, I don't have a good answer for you. Yeah. That your eye hurt. This kid was mean, like, yeah. Sometimes things suck, man.

I'm, I'm sorry. Like, I think it's okay to know that, like get a grasp of that because sometimes things suck and like Yeah. The world. The world's kind of a horrible place. Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Please. Yeah. But, you know, find the, find the good, find your joy. I don't know. Anyway, tell me a story about you.

Let's, let's ping pong this a little bit. Can you tell me something? Yeah, yeah. Well, 

Tom: uh, yeah. Early in the week, I took a breath work workshop. My first time ever doing that at the yoga studio down the street. Yeah. We've, we've been there together before. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've always wanted to do it. Uh, I've been a little scared about it, to be honest.

I've heard it's very intense and it was okay. All we did [00:05:00] for an hour was lay on our back and go, um, wait. Wait, I forget now. I can't remember. Uh, it was like, it was like two inhales and one exhale, but I can't remember. It was all, all the mouth, so it was like,

I kind of So you hyperventilate. Okay. Yeah. Um, and, um, you immediately start like very quickly get uncomfortable and you, you're supposed to like, sort of push through it. And it's supposed to like release all of these stored emotions and um, it's supposed to level out your nervous system, like, um, okay. Sci scientifically it does that.

It, um, like the peripatetic nervous system, it levels that out, which. You know, my nervous system needs that for sure. Um, so I was like, excited about it, but it can bring up like trauma and, um, they, she said specifically like your hands might turn into claws and start to hurt and get [00:06:00] stuck and you can just like stop or, but really you're supposed to push through it and she'll come over if it gets too intense.

So that kind of scared me, but, you know, I, I did it. Did you get, get any clause? I got like, my hands felt like they had an enormous energy in them. Like, like I was a, a Marvel superhero character, and I could like shoot beams of energy. A um, so maybe a little claw, but it was more, but it was, it was cool, but it was weird.

Yeah. Um, and it never, like, I never pushed through that. Um, so I don't know. I also like backed off from the breathing a little bit when it got too intense. But I would go back. It felt like a challenge and like, um, apparently you can, like, it can be quite like. Sort of psychedelic. Um, you can almost trip from breath, uh, you can have like a psychedelic experience from breathwork.

So, well, I'm gonna do it. 

Jonathan: We, we haven't done, I haven't done a real guru Tom in a while, and I feel like this is, this is a good one. Maybe I'll keep, because as you were talking about this, I was thinking about, um, I, and I always get the Senga, or Senga, whichever one it is. 

Tom: I forget how to say it, [00:07:00] the eyedrops, 

Jonathan: but yes, the eyedrops that, uh, I went with you to do a thing one time and that was a part of it.

And I just remember like it was the most intense. Yeah, the most intense pain isn't even right. But it was the most intense feeling I've ever felt. And it was pain, but it was like such a high degree of pain. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: That I thought, oh, I'm going blind. Except for literally, I don't know if I could have ever done that first on my own.

Like the fact that you had been there and had done that and I was next to you doing it and I mean I was not really like aware of you. 'cause I'm just like, it was just like white. It's just like blindingly white pain. But I thought. Tom's come through this, the other side. So I think that I'll make it through this.

But otherwise, otherwise, this is the worst I've ever felt. This is, I'm 

Tom: there to help you through any uncomfortable experiences. I'll hold your hand and help you breathe deep. 

Jonathan: Uh, thanks man. What else do you do this week? I had, here's something I did. Uh, so, uh, Jen had a, uh, a girl's night, Saturday night, um, which a couple parts of this is, uh, great.

She, she and a [00:08:00] couple of friends went to, um, a 30 and over. Party at a club in Manhattan that was from six 30 to 10 30, which is like, phenomenal. And it was all like nineties music she said. And so it was just like, you know, it was like, although apparently it was like a bunch of like techno remixes of 90 music, which, which by the way is like not what you do for that.

You, you, you just play the hits. Play the hits and like let 40 year olds and millennials and geriatric millennials, like just enjoy the songs that they miss. Um, but I was saying that she was getting ready to go out. I was saying like, oh, you guys are. Like, not even in a jealous way, in a fun way. I was like, you guys are gonna get hit on, like, this is gonna be a, like a prime, uh, you know, pickup spot.

And she was like, there's no way there's gonna be men there. That's not gonna be a a, there's not gonna be guys there. And I was like, well there, there are just as many men, like if with, you know, either still married, women going out, there are guys that are, there are divorced guys, there are guys who've never been married.

There are married guys who want to be out somewhere fun like. I, I would [00:09:00] absolutely be at that, that scene. That seems like a fun place to be. That's where you're gonna hear, just like they are, you're gonna hear the music, you're gonna, the vibe is gonna be all people your age. It's early. Yeah. I assume that a place like this, the, the seats have backs to them.

You know, those are important things for those of us in our forties when we go out and she said, uh, fast forward. She said, no. There were no like. There were no real men that she got. She said that the, she was with two friends and the three of them got hit on by some like young, super douchey guys, like just the douches of guys.

And she, after she said that they like the, the women entertained these guys for a second, and then after a moment. Jen was like, you, you should just go. Like you should go. Um, we're all, we're all married with children, but you should go. And the guy like tried some other, but like used the word MILF in it, like tried some MILF line and one of her friends was like, why are you still talking to us?

So that's amazing. Yeah. They still got it. They can get picked up by the young [00:10:00] dudes, but I, listen, I don't know that we have a lot of um. Uh, single men, uh, heterosexual men in their forties, uh, listening to the podcast, but just in case, doubt it go to the nineties night. Why would you not? That's what like, women who are, uh, it just, I mean, I think just, it's another example of like men not really understanding, uh, whatever how to they, they cut off their nose to spite their face.

Um, but. Since she was out for the girls night, I, uh, solo dad for Saturday into Sunday and we went to a birthday party. And I'm just gonna say this, and it's just true and I, if it changes, that's okay. And until it does, I'm gonna keep milking this because the bar is solo for, uh, a dad. Um, that like just being there and not losing my mind and like being able to like survive with my two kids at a birthday party.

Best case. You did it. Amazing. Oh yeah. And like people are, people are [00:11:00] so impressed, like. They sh it should just be normal, but it's like a, it's like a, people are blown away by the fact that I can get this done. And it's like, I don't, I don't think the bar should be that low. I think you could expect a little more from a father to take care of his kids.

I think that, like, he can show up somewhere with his kids and get a thing done, you know? And, um, but until that bar gets raised, I, I would like to be a part of raising that bar. I think that we can expect more from, from dads. Mm-hmm. But also I will, uh, I will go ahead and reap the benefits of that low bar and looking very impressive by doing.

Basically the bare minimum. Uh, I'm proud of you. Thanks, man. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. What about you? 

Tom: Yeah, well, uh, my big news, which, you know, uh, my, uh, two of my best friends, Jeff and Rob, got married this weekend. Yes. Congratulations, Jeff and Rob. Congratulations. Yep. They lived in sin for a long time, 15 years, but now the Lord blesses them.

Yes, yes, yes. I actually, uh, they were, they were been legal as of January. Um, I, I married them [00:12:00] back in January. Mm. They wanted to get married before. Trump, um, got sworn in, uh, which I understand. Uh, but really their, the real wedding was this past weekend, like the wedding, the vows in front of family and friends.

The vows were beautiful. They wrote their own vows, the setting. They got married in Brooklyn Bridge Park as the sun was setting. Um, and it was just a great, a great weekend. And then we extended into Sunday. They invited all their friends to Mr. Sunday at nowadays, which is one of their favorite. Parties, um, party happens, uh, may through October every Sunday.

A really great party, uh, daytime, three to nine. And uh, you came, yeah, it was for that part of it. My first Sunday. Your first nowadays experience. Yeah. What do you think? It was so fun. 

Jonathan: I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Absolutely loved it. Yeah, it's a great venue. It was a lot of fun. The. The, the outdoorsiness and the kind of maness of it helps kind of break it up.

And so it keeps the, like the dance floor is hopping, it's like a great dance floor, but it's also easy to kind of like, get away and have a spot and not feel too clubby about it or too, [00:13:00] like in the, if you need to step out, you can have, there's a, there's a picnic table, there's like places to be. Um, it's, there's a, there's a grill, there's food to get throughout the night.

If you, it's like a great, I, I. I really, really enjoyed it. I had a great time. Good. Yeah. And I had a great time that there was a lot of guys I hadn't seen in a long time, and so I got to talk to a bunch of people. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah. You 

Tom: had a lot of fans. Um, yeah. Yeah. I, um, I have to say this is the second wedding now in a month that, uh, Quan and I have gone to, and that both weddings were people that we knew and loved both.

People getting married and um, like we're rooting for their relationship and weddings are so much better when that's the case. Yeah. Like we've all been to weddings where you only know one person or you don't like that the person's marrying the person. And, uh, it really is nice when it's a real celebration that you can get behind.

Uh, so I'm, I, I wish them all the best and um, 

Jonathan: yeah, they've 

Tom: just been really great friends to me and I'm really happy for them. Yeah, it was a really special 

Jonathan: weekend. Yeah, I'm really happy for them too. I, I didn't, uh, you know, they were, they were the bells of the ball, so I didn't get like a, a lot of [00:14:00] time to talk, but I was so good to see them and wish them well.

And I, for a moment, I talked to Rob, uh, because my, my wedding weekend is like. Maybe my favorite weekend of my entire life. Mm-hmm. And getting married to my wife is a big part of that. But like, just the, the fact that like everyone that you care about and love is there for you and they're, all the events are happening for you and like, it's such a fun time.

Yeah. If, if it is that kind of environment and if it's that kind of like, which obviously there's wise, I mean, so many people loved them and it was such a cool group to have together and they seemed, I mean, you know, they're. They've been together for 15 years, but also like they seemed to be having a, a, a phenomenal time, which was Yeah, they were, I was so excited to see.

Yeah. And so, congratulations. Row 

Tom: also, I got recognized from the podcast at the wedding. You did? You 

Jonathan: did. 

Tom: Uh, shout out to my boy Tyler, who's a fan and hopefully listening to this episode, fan of yours too. That's how he found the podcast in the first place. Ah, well thanks Tyler. It was really sweet of him to say something and uh, it was a nice, it really made my night.

Um, yeah. And, but, but because of the wedding events, [00:15:00] 'cause there were multiple, um, I, I haven't had. Much time to really dive into t Swift's new album. Yeah. But you know, I'm a fan and I, uh, really enjoyed a lot of what I listened to and I'm so excited to listen to it more. Um, I love wood. Uh, the song that's been getting a lot of attention, um, about, uh, you know, Travis and, and their, their.

Allegedly. No, allegedly. It's 

Jonathan: just, it's just, I mean, you know what I, I applaud her for the, all of the, all of the journeys that Taylor Swift has been through all of the, the rollercoaster that is Taylor Swift in, in, uh. The zeitgeist. She's like, here's a song about dick, just about a big old dick that changed my life.

Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say like there has been, uh, the, the little bit that I've been able to catch up with, like being online after a weekend of being sort of out in the world. Um, there does seem to be some negativity around the album and some like, um. And I don't think that, I [00:16:00] guess I, I'll say that, um, you know, I, I do believe, you know, free speech, it's a free country.

People are allowed to say, I believe whatever they want. And if you're an artist and you're putting out art, then part of the deal is that people are gonna critique it. And she knows that certainly she's got, uh, thicker skin than any of us, I think. But I do feel like there's an extra special vitriol around her.

Um, and I think that's probably comes with when you have that degree of success. I, I don't know. I just feel like, um, I'm gonna personally preserve, reserve my negativity at that level for things like genocide. But if, if other people wanna put that level of negativity into Taylor Swift and analyzing her songs like.

Cool. But I don't know there's a genocide happening. I would maybe look over there too. If you Yeah, if you're, if you're capable of that kind of speech, it could be helpful. 

Jonathan: You 

Tom: could you, if you've got 

Jonathan: the bandwidth. If you've got the bandwidth, but that kind of vitriol into a pop album, maybe look at some of the real stuff happening around.

Yeah, sure. I think so. [00:17:00] Yeah, there's a, there's a there and you know, like, I don't think either of us begrudge anyone their angry feelings, but maybe if you, if you want to feel some angry feelings, feel 'em towards something that is, uh, real and that matters and yeah. Is, is killing the world, um, is just ruining things as we know it.

Um. Yeah, that's a good point. I, it is funny, like I, people just don't like when someone has, people love fame, people love celebrities, they love a pedestal. But then when you're there too long, and if you do too much with it and you're too good at it, then you gotta come down like, it's like a, the, the, yeah.

It's 

Tom: a cycle. Yeah. 

Jonathan: It's so just, I don't know. Yeah. It's in nature. Yeah. 

Tom: Um, also Jane Goodall died this week. Yeah. Which is a, a great loss. But I read a quote of hers. I was reading all this stuff about her and, um, she, she had this, someone was asking her in an interview, I think it was in the Times, um, about the state of the world and what she thinks about it.

And she down about it and she was like, I am and things are bad. And, um, the direction the country's going in is [00:18:00] bad, but she said something. I'm gonna read it verbatim. Um. Talk about how the issue was affecting you, how you feel about it. I think that's the way forward, but that's just my way. So in other words, the question was what do we, how, what do we do with Yeah.

What's happening in the world? And, and her, her, her, her response was just get clear and talk about how you feel about the issue instead of. Vilifying the other person. Just we, I think we, and, and that was a good lesson for me 'cause I can get soap boxy as you know, as you've seen it on here tons. And um, it might help.

Move the world forward if we all just try and get clear and talk passionately with heart about what we think and where we think things should go, and share that with the people that disagree with us instead of trying to vilify them or make them feel stupid for what they think, even though, you know, um, uh, but I, I, I thought that was a wise, wise, words from someone much wiser than me.

And yeah, I'm gonna try to heat them as I much [00:19:00] as I can. 

Jonathan: Yeah. That is that. That's nice to hear and yeah, that's a good way to think about it. I don't know, I, I, I don't know, man. Uh, you know, even we go back and forth about how much do we talk about this shit happening in the world? Like, uh, do we, you know, we, we are not experts on anything.

Uh, and we're not trying to be a political podcast or a whatever, but also like shit's happening in the world and it's very real and it's very. Uh, influential in a way that like is gonna set the course for the future and could be real fucking bad. So, like, you know, I talk about it, I don't know, I clearly, I have a hard time like, you know, we don't have to get all the way into it right now, but, you know, my, I'm still trying to figure things out with my dad.

We're kind of a standstill now. We can't really talk and just talking is, talking is difficult, talking is trickier. It seems like such a basic thing and I think for a lot of my adult life. Uh, I've been a real talker, but it turns out when I get back to like, no, my roots, [00:20:00] I think that I've been, I've been, uh, compensating or overcompensating for the lack of talking and the lack of, uh, really talking the lack of, uh, you know, honesty and, and, and real opening up.

Um. In fact, like last night I was saying like, I did get to talk to a bunch of people, which was really fun. People were stopping by, you know, whatever. And like, I, I'm all for it, but I'm also not gonna do the same conversation 10 times in a night. I'm not gonna talk about the weather or the DJ or whatever.

Like, we're gonna grab something that we say early on and we're gonna like go down a weird path and I'm gonna just talk about real shit. And that, I don't know if it's like that, that it's like that is a more the kind of like. The, of that scene, that party vibe has like a really cool, like people are pretty grounded and understand.

Like they, they're a talking group and so no one flinched, no one flinched at like taking like a, a kind of personal deep dive or a, you know, whatever it was that we got into, which is like such a nice breath of fresh air. And I'm saying this, like, I'm not saying I do it [00:21:00] right all the time. I'm saying I can't do it with my family.

Like I can't. Do what I'm doing with, with people in New York without, with, with the people that I'm around now. Like, I get, I feel myself get stuck and I, I don't know, man. I gotta, yeah. And we're probably not gonna solve it right now, but I gotta figure out how to, how to talk to the people that are close to me.

Tom: Mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: I don't know. You do, you do instead of that, tell me about 

Tom: your, I see in your notes here, man crush on Ed Ellison on, yeah, let's do that. Know about 

Jonathan: your man crush. Let's do that. Let's do that instead. Let's, I'm much more comfortable talking about that, please. For whatever that's worth. Please. Uh, it, for anyone out there who doesn't know Ed Elson, uh, uh.

Uh, Paris Social Friend of the pod is, um, the, uh, prof G Markets. Um, if you follow Scott Galloway at all, the Prof g uh, podcast Network, uh, ed is kind of his, I'm, I'm not going to, uh, um, I'll, I'll misspeak about their relationship, but kind of his mentee, uh, has came on a few years ago, um, and has really like.

I mean, I think he really shines, and I don't really know what all of [00:22:00] his growth was to get to where he is. But now he was a co-host of the podcast, and Scott has basically gone on to just be more wealthy and famous and kind of at a higher tier. And so Ed runs the podcast now and Scott's on like once a week or calls in sometimes, but he's a young dude and he, it's a markets podcast, so it's, it's all, it's all finance and it's all markets except for I, I, I don't know, I'm, you know, in my mid forties.

I just, just recently started learning about some very passive investment. Like I'm, I'm, my money does not make money and I'm learning. I'm starting to change that, but like, I'm basically a $1 for $1 kind of guy, and it's been like I'm realizing how much money I left on the table and I'm trying to get better at investing and understanding.

Finance in the market. Are you gonna give us 

Tom: investment tips? Are we investing podcasts? 

Jonathan: No. First of all, no, we have to, we have to be very clear. I think that's a big legal thing. Of all the things you said on here, we are not giving, we are not giving investment tips. No, no. Also, don't listen to anything I say about it.

I would be, but you should listen to Ed Ellison. I think that he's. Because [00:23:00] it's a, it's a markets podcast, but he finds a way every time to make it like relevant. And it is, it's, it's relevant. And he talks about the politics of it. He talks about how insane some of this stuff is, and it's like, it's such a cool, for me it's like such a fun way because it's all numbers and he's looking at history and he is looking at like the analytics from before and how it relates to now.

And what it really means, as opposed to what anyone's saying and how anyone's trying to gas it up and talk about it and say whatever bullshit they're saying is like, you can look at it and see exactly what's happening and what this is and what is true and what's not true. Um, you know, like this, I'm just pulling this out of thin air, like tariffs.

He's like, he doesn't blink when he is. Like, they're garb, they're nothing. They're, they're bad for us. There's no reason they're not bad for us. Economics 1 0 1 says they're bad for us. Everything that's happening says they're bad for us. It's bad for us. Um, and he is unafraid to. Speak his mind. And I, I just, I don't know.

And he is also like pretty crush, pretty sexy dude crush. He's, he's pretty sexy. He's like, you know, young. Got a shaved head. He is British. He is got [00:24:00] like a pretty chiseled jaw. Like he looks like he's fit. I haven't seen him, you know, really? But he is, he is a, he's a pretty hot dude. So yeah. Show your body head.

Yeah, yeah. Show us your crawl, add Nelson. Show us your crawl. 

Tom: Well, I love this topic 'cause we, we talked a little bit about, um, diving into the Kinsey Scale and, um, so this is a good, this is a good segue into that. Um, we actually challenged, I challenged you this week to do take a Kinsey test online. 

Jonathan: Yeah.

Tom: Uh, we don't know if it's the Kinsey test. I Googled Kinsey test. It's the first one that came up. Did you, did you learn anything more about that? I didn't 

Jonathan: learn any more about it. Yeah. It was a very. I think that, I thought that Kinsey scale was a very nuanced, like granular, uhhuh like spectrum, and this is pretty.

There are seven questions. Six. There are six stops. There's seven questions and Oh, yeah. Stops on the scale. Yeah. So it's not like that granular, it's not like that nuanced. But, uh, we did take this test and we got our [00:25:00] results. Um, okay, 

Tom: let's, let's count to three and Sarah results at the same time. You ready?

Jonathan: One. Sure. 1, 2, 3. Three. Heterosexual in oh one. 

Tom: Wow. We're the same, bro. We're the 

Jonathan: same. We're mirrors. We're the I knew we would. I knew it. I knew we'd be. You knew it. I knew. So 

Tom: hot. I knew, knew it. That means I have like one little sliver of a chance. I've known it, I've known it deep 

Jonathan: down all these years. I like that you said the number, and I wish I had to read the words out because I was like, I was like, how the fuck are we gonna say a bunch of words and people are going to understand this.

It's all about the number. 

Tom: Wow. That's fascinating. Well, to 

Jonathan: be clear, yeah, so I'm a one, but zero is the first one. So you're, yeah, 

Tom: zero is totally straight. Nothing but straight. Straight all day. Yeah. Yeah. And six is none. But gay is totally gay. Not but gay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. It's good internet does it, does it?

Does it feel true to you? 

Jonathan: Uh, yeah, I wanted more [00:26:00] nuance to it. So the, the, the, the title of it, what I was gonna say is Heterosexual, incidental Homosexual Tendencies. Um, which the questions were super, uh. Like broad and kind of like, it was like, have you ever had sex with, uh, same sex? No. Yeah. Do you want to have sex with the same sex?

No. And that's true. Like I don't, yeah. Like my crush on Ed Elson, I don't want to make out with Ed. I don't want to have sex with Ed. I don't want a thing to do with him. I don't want to, my body does not need to touch his body, but I am. In all of the ways very attracted to him. From what I know, from what I know about in, in, in our Parasocial relationship, I'm very attracted to him outside of anything carnal, if that makes sense.

And I like, I assumed that that came in on the Kinsey scale somewhere. That that was kind of like, that's the part that always intrigues me is like, 'cause a lot of men stop way before that. I feel like even like acknowledging that or like understanding. Yeah. Meanwhile, we got like a whole, I mean a giant culture of straight men who just.[00:27:00] 

Ogle athletes all the time. But you don't, you say it in the right way, that it's not gay, but it's like all you're doing is talking about, you have a, you have a crush on this dude. You have, you're, you're super gay for these guys. Has 

Tom: there ever been an athlete or a celebrity that you like is on your, like, what's the list that married people, Ryan Gosling.

Right. So you, you would have sex with Ryan? Ryan Gosling. 

Jonathan: I made a shirt, uh, Jen, like her birthday the second year, like the first full year we had been dating. I made her a shirt for her birthday that said, I hurt Ryan Gosling almost as much as my boyfriend does. 

Tom: Wow. So that's, that's where the one on your scale comes from, is Ryan G.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 

Jonathan: I mean, there are others over the years, like Brad Pitt was one that's, you know, way up there for a long time, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The obvious ones like, yeah. Um. But, but does that 

Tom: mean like if you were to meet Ryan Gosling and he were to like, make a play? No. You would No, no, no, 

Jonathan: no. It's not, it's not that.

It's not, I, I feel like I've been very clear and if you are in a, a place where [00:28:00] you need me to say it again, I will say it again to, for, for you were sake. I, no, it's just like this scale. If I decide to have sex with men, it's gonna be you, I promise. I promise. I promise. I promise. It will be you. It's 

Tom: like, it's like, like right now I feel like a door was closing in my life and I just got like my foot in to stop the door from closing.

Do you know what I mean? Like that's what this one means for me. So I'm real excited about it. Yeah. So I'm a five, which I was, I was like surprised actually. I was surprised. I thought for sure I'd be a six. Yeah. But. Yeah, it's like, uh, I don't know. I don't quite know which questions got me there. I can't remember.

Um, do you remember like what might've gotten, uh, 

Jonathan: there 

Tom: was

Jonathan: mm. Like a, have you ever, or do you like, 'cause you, like you can be in a party like you, you can find a woman attractive and you can talk specifically percent about what makes a woman attractive and like you, like, like I, I've seen you not kind of like it, it is the same as me on the other side. Like you don't get turned on by it, [00:29:00] but you can look at it.

From the perspective of what a man's looking at here and what they're seeing in a woman. Yeah, for sure. For 

Tom: sure. Yeah. Um, yeah. Well, well what's so strange is when I went through puberty, um, and first started to have like sex dreams, um, never, never, um, nocturnal omission, never, never had one feel. I feel completely gypped.

Um, but uh, when I first started to have sex dreams, they were for like the first year they were about women. Only women. Sure. Um, specifically I remember, um, peg Bundy, like fuck yeah. Sex Dream about Peg Bundy. Um, yeah. It was like always boobs. Yeah. Um, like my, my sexual fantasies revolved around boobs and I remember like, um, married with children episodes, there was a lot of like boob stuff that turned me on.

Yeah. And then I started to. Jerk off and I started to get really obsessed with my own dick and like just my own [00:30:00] dick turned me on. So that to the point where I stopped like thinking about boobs when I was. Like, by the time I was jerking off, I wasn't jerking off thinking about boobs. Um, and then, and then it's like, but it's weird.

Like, I don't know what that means. 'cause like part something internal. Like there was a, there was a, so maybe some sort of nature nurture weird shit happened. I don't know. But um, yeah, it was like I started to go down one path and then something, something changed. That's funny. 

Jonathan: Like I ordered the chicken, chicken and egg there.

If it's like. You, you liked men and so you had the men parts and or, or if like maybe you were like really good at self-love and you were like, I, this is fucking aw. What I have is awesome. Who else has this? You guys have this. That's what I want. 

Tom: I mean, but, but here's the thing. Like I always had crushes on.

Guys from like first grade. And I, I knew, I didn't know that that's what it was. So, so it's not like suddenly I was attracted to guys outta nowhere. But, um, yeah, yeah, there was like a confusion also, like Grease two fucked me up big time. [00:31:00] I saw, I saw Grease two in second grade. Um, we were shown Greece as kids at a very inappropriate age, like first grade.

I knew grease by heart and we loved Grease. We loved grease so much. We watched it all the time for like two years, and then like it was the night before school, the first day of school, and my mom was like, oh, guess what's on TV tonight, grease two? And we were like, what? There's a sequel. It's like, she didn't, you could have told us there was a sequel.

So. She taped it for us and then we finally watched it. We had to wait for the weekend 'cause it like all had started. Cool. Watched it. Yeah. Yeah. We were obsessed and REI was like a major sexual awakening for me. Wow. And it was like, and it was a, it was the problem of like Michelle Pfeiffer and Maxwell Caulfield.

Sure. I didn't know who I wanted to be and who I wanted to fuck. Sure. I was obsessed with both of them. Yeah. So, yeah, there's always been this like duality and my first sexual experiences were with, um, women and, um. Really, my first major sexual experience was with a woman, and that is, that was the night that I came home [00:32:00] and laid in bed.

She was really hot and I laid in my own bed when I got home and I was like, I'm gay. Like that was hot. She's hot and that's not it for me. And I did. Wow. Yeah. Um, but even after that, like in college, there was a weird spin the bottle night with my friends one day in college and like I played with a girlfriend's boobs.

Yeah, like dare wise for a long time and totally enjoyed it and was turned on by it. So I guess that's my one. Um, that explains, that explains mine. 

Jonathan: I think that I was so, like, I was, I was desperate for more, for more questions. 'cause I wanted, I was like, I, I'm not a zero on the king. I know that I'm not, yeah.

But these questions were pretty straightforward and like, I don't want to have sex with men and I never have and I'm not interested in that. So I was like, oh no, I'm gonna end up a zero. But luckily there was something in there that like was enough to, to give me the one. 

Tom: Have you ever done the purity test?

That was floating around when we were in high 

Jonathan: school. Do you 

Tom: know about this? 

Jonathan: I mean, no, I don't. Oh shit. I feel like growing up Southern Baptist, the purity test is a very different thing. Um, yeah, 

Tom: we did it in high school. I [00:33:00] feel like it was 50 questions, but it could have been more. But it was like, it gave you, it told you how pure you were.

Oh, it was like, it was a bunch of stuff, not just sex. So I'm gonna find it. We'll, we'll do a purity test. Yeah. Find it. Lemme know. Test off. I signed 

Jonathan: more than one purity pledge, so you know that I was, I was pretty pure, you know. Did you break it? Did you like that? Yeah. Well, they, the, the church knew enough to like leave a huge.

Uh, don't ask, don't tell area in between, uh, penis and vagina and not, you know. Okay. Yeah. It's like, not, not quite the, like the, the Catholic, uh, lean on the whole thing, but like, there is a big old, like, you should not have sex, and that's all we're gonna say. We're not gonna talk about anything else. So like, there's a lot of fumbling around and figuring shit out without any kind of guidance at all.

Uh, and also like, just kind of like the overarching shame. Thesis that goes with everything, just makes it all a little bit funky to figure out, you know, like I, I will say, just to go back for a second. It from my book. You dodged a bullet on not getting the, uh, the wet [00:34:00] dreams on not getting nocturnal emissions.

Like I, every time, I mean, I had a handful and every time I'd, I would wake up in the middle of it 'cause my body would be doing something. So I'd be having a, an incredible dream. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: And I would be getting to a point where it was incredible. Then my body would be freaking out doing a new thing. And so I would, it would wake me up.

So I'd wake up mid come and then be like, what's happening? Yeah. And then be like, well now I'm fucking, now I'm a mess and I have to get up and change and like it's, and then what do I do with this? 'cause it's just shame everywhere. Like what, you know, what do I. Do I wash this now? Do I just stick it in the middle of my laundry?

Like what do I do now? There's no, no one, no one told me. Were you 

Tom: doing your own laundry at that point, or did it mean hitting off your laundry? 

Jonathan: Well, I was doing my own. It was, it would come and go, but I was already, I started doing my own laundry, very young. Shout out to my parents for that. Like I started, they were, they taught me those kind of things.

I was doing my own laundry from like elementary school, Uhhuh. Um, and not all the time, sometimes I would, but yes, during those days, yeah, I would be sure to do my own laundry. Um. I, I got called out for, this is a whatever. [00:35:00] Uh, we'll just, this will be a quick in and out. I got called out for skid marks at one point, and then like, that was the, that was the big deal for like, I was like, I'm doing my own laundry now.

Like first of all, I'm gonna do better with that, that part of things, and also my own laundry. So once it came to just like com filled boxers, I was doing laundry. 

Tom: Woo. We found our title ladies and. You are listening to episode 16. Come Filled Boxes. 

Jonathan: I was, I was talking to someone last night. Oh. Uh, I was talking to Simeon, um, I dunno if he listens, but just in case, shout out Sian, uh oh.

And oh. You, you get recognized people, people you get. People come up to you and talk about the podcast and you're a, you're a star out there. And I realize like, I mean, I, I don't, and I, whatever. I, I, it, I love it for you. I'm sad that I don't care. Cognize sometimes, but I do love it for you. But I was like, oh, we're a pretty gay podcast.

Like I don't think that the moms are sitting around through come filled boxers to hear anything like this.[00:36:00] 

Too much. 

Tom: You don't like the title? Is it too much? No. Do it. Let's do it. 

Jonathan: We, we gotta lean in. We're a gay podcast man. We're 

Tom: See, see, now my question is, my mind immediately goes to, is there a hyphen? I think there is a hyphen between Come and Filled, but I'm gonna confirm it using chat GBT. But I'm pretty, pretty sure that it's like I would hyphen that, um, grammatically there should be a hyphen there.

Yeah, yeah, 

Jonathan: yeah. I would do that. Yeah. Other. Yeah, I mean, there's really not a way to misconstrue, I feel like, right away. Otherwise I think about it. There's not like a, there's not like a weird way to read that without the hyphen, but I still think Correct would be the hyphen. 

Tom: Yeah. Woof. I love this episode.

Um, wait, so did you ever have, you never had fantasies about guys then ever? 

Jonathan: Uh, no, but I had, I've had dreams about men that then, like I've had dreams about threesomes where I was like starting to get with a man. Mm-hmm. And I, I, and I, this is true every time I've woken up, and it hasn't happened for a long time, but like in college and then after college it would happen and I would like.

[00:37:00] A be, it was always in a threesome. And I would end up like going down on him or like messing with his dick for a minute. And in that I would wake up. Like that would be, it was like the opposite of the Feld boxers. It was like, I'd be like, whoa, what uh, am I, uh, and it was like. I just gotta the point where I was like, that's what I need on the Kinsey.

I need that. I need that question on the Kinsey scale. But it was like, you know, I also sometimes dream that my teeth fall out. I don't want that to happen, so it doesn't mean that I want to suck a dick. It's like whatever's happening up there. But I would wake up from those and be like, uh, okay, let's, let's think through this.

How do I feel? What's going on? Am I hard? No, I'm not. There are no comforted boxers, uhhuh after those dreams. So, Uhhuh. Um, yeah, it, it, 

Tom: that's, I'm speechless. I'm actually, I'm actually speechless. No, that's hot. Um, wow. Okay. So do you, you do you, you, you believe it's like on a spectrum, right? Like, well, [00:38:00] here's the thing.

Jonathan: Yeah. I think that it's, well, I think you like what you like and I think that like. I, I can see a world where we, we are heading toward a place like I know enough teenagers, I don't know many teenagers, but I have like friends with kids and I know enough teenagers that identify as queer. Yeah. Just because they fucking identify as queer.

They're like, I don't know. I don't know what I, I like what I like, so, 

Tom: yeah. Yeah. I, 

Jonathan: I feel like I feel pretty strongly that I, I'm a one. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: If I had grown up in a way that like. Wasn't super binary. Not only was it binary, it was, there's a right answer and a wrong answer. Like, who knows? I, I, I still know that I'm a one, but like, yeah, if I going, but maybe you're 

Tom: like, like a prison five.

Sure. 

Jonathan: I'll be a prison five. I'll be a prison. 

Tom: Woo. Yeah. I, um, yeah. What was I gonna say? I, um. Oh, shit. I'm so distracted. I can't remember what I was gonna say. Ah, I was gonna say that. I do, I believe, like the act does not define [00:39:00] you. So, um, it's a, like, I think sexuality is about what you desire and, um, so like if I were to have sex with a woman tomorrow, I would not consider myself.

Straight or straighter than my five or five. You wouldn't call, you wouldn't call at that point just from having sex with her? No. Yeah, I wouldn't. Um, and I think it's the same thing as like, um, you know, uh, guys, straight guys that have sex with guys for money or for porn. Yeah. Um, if they say they're straight, I believe them.

I do think it's about what you desire. I don't, I think an act is an act. Yeah. And you can, you can do an act for whatever reason. And, um, like, you know, if, if you're a, a straight guy and you get your dick sucked by a guy, and even if you come, which implies yeah, to some degree there was an enjoyment there.

I don't think that that makes you gay. I think what makes you gay is you identify as someone who wants to have sex with guys and it make, it took you on. I get, you know, I, 

Jonathan: I think that [00:40:00] like, and I, I think that I kind of, it. I normally, I so far in life have kind of thought about it from the other side, but not from a place of judgment.

Like, I think it's okay if you're like, oh, you, you are bi. If you can, if you enjoyed it when a man sucked your dick, then you're bi and that's okay. Like that's, you can spend the rest of your life with a woman. But also I get what you're saying, like you can also, who gives it, identify the way you want to, like Totally.

Who cares? It's you. So do it. Like whatever. Totally. Yeah. If you're, um, the next thing I say is gonna be a spoiler alert about a documentary on Netflix. Um, but we're 40 minutes in, but I kind of liked the way that Charlie Sheen talked about it and dropped the bomb late in that. But it was like he was super high a lot and in that time was like very sexually active.

And even the way that he talks about, it's like I was with men during that time. I don't, uh, you know, like I don't begrudge that. I'm not mad at anyone for that. I'm not sure that's a thing. I'm going to keep, keep up. But that's a thing that happened at that time, like, and I think that that's a. 

Tom: It was perfect.

It was [00:41:00] real the way he talked about it. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree that that's like a, and, and I really do agree with you that, uh, identify the way you wanna identify. Like who cares. Yeah. I think that, I think the reason I used to have kind of a harder, like take on that is because. Coming from the other side of it where I was in a place of like the south and like whatever in my life so far, straight culture.

There's like the homophobia that exists. Yeah. That is like, no, I'm fucking straight, but I will let a dude suck my dick. It's like, well just fucking chill out on what you're calling, like don't be so angry about being straight, like 

Tom: yeah, yeah. 

Jonathan: Relax on the whole thing. But yeah, if you wanna identify as straight, that's fine, but don't be so.

Vehemently angrily straight. 'cause you're, 'cause you're scared of being gay. 

Tom: Yeah. Um, the anger at other, I mean it really is like self-hate, I think like the anger. Yeah. Homophobia, anger is so strange to me. Why anyone would Yeah. Spend so much energy, um. Vilifying someone else's pleasure. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah. Self-hating fear. Also, life is, is so short. Like if you want to try [00:42:00] something, yeah. Fucking try it. 'cause we do not know if there's another, if we come back, yeah, we don't. We don't know that. 

Jonathan: So that's kind of like, frankly, uh, if you wanna suck a dick, suck a dick because the clock is ticking. The, the, the clock.

The clock is ticking. The clock. The clock cock is ticking. Another title. Oh, we can't, we can't 

Tom: keep wasting titles on one episode. The clock cock is ticking. It's a T-shirt. Put it on, put it on one of your t-shirts.

Jonathan: Okay, great. Well then can I, can I pitch t-shirts? Can I, can I haw T-shirts have I put on a t-shirt? 

Tom: Haw your wares. Alright. You know what it's time for? I do. Who would you fight? Uh, who would you fight? Pow. Pow. Should I go first? You wanna go first? Go first please. I want to fight adults that don't understand group chat etiquette.

Uh, I want to first preface this by saying, and if you're a loyal, loyal listener, you know, I have some, um. Very firmly [00:43:00] held beliefs about the online sphere. And so that does, that does, I'll admit, bleed over into, uh, group chats. I do find them very helpful. Um, I find them enjoyable. I am not against group chats.

I was at first. I've come around, this was years ago I came around. Um, but I, for me, there's a lot of things, things going off through the day and emails and work is all email focused and personal life. There's just a lot of notifications coming in, and I personally want less and I always want less. And so I find, um, group chat, group chats to be a bit obnoxious, sometimes true.

Um, but I think that there's some rules that we should all live by. And I'm here to set down the commandments of group chats. Give 'em to us, but I think could make life better for everybody. Gives the rules, um, when you get invited to a group chat. Um. You know, enter that group chat with your head held high.

But I think it's, it's beholden on you to just sit back and let the group chat happen for a while. Just [00:44:00] experience the group chat, understand the dynamics of the group chat, and then start to slowly contribute in a way that matches Sure. The world that has been created before you. Sure. If it's a new group chat right from the beginning, then yes, you are a part of creating that world.

Setting the tone. Yeah, but I, I still encourage you to watch your fellow group chatters, and if 

Jonathan: you've got a really Jane Goodall vibe with this right now, 

Tom: if these other group chatters aren't sending a lot of, um, emojis, like with every text, you don't need all the emojis. You don't need 'em. If it's not the vibe.

It's not the vibe. If people aren't sending a lot of, um, what's the little like. Movie clips. Um, like gifs, gifs, gifs. Yeah. Maybe it's a gif focused chat and if everybody's jiving, gif away. But if, if, if you're the only one sending a gif, I'm gonna suggest to you that that's not the chat for you. Um, I also think if sometimes I've been, I've been in chats that I don't like [00:45:00] what's going on in the chat.

I don't like how much. First of all, I really, really hate when group chats with a lot of people are constant. I find that to be just absolutely one of the horrific things we could do to our friends and our family. Um, but, and I'm in tons of them, trust me. But I still love the people in the chat. I value why the chat exists.

There's information I actually want from that chat. So then what the next law of group chats is I take it upon myself to say, I'm gonna mute this chat. And I'm gonna shut off. I've decided that this chat is too noisy for me. You, I don't exist at this level. 

Jonathan: You say you, you don't, you announce it at the chat or you just the, for yourself.

You say, I'm gonna mute the chat. Yeah. I say to 

Tom: myself, this chat is not for you. But I either leave the chat, but it often, I don't wanna leave the chat. I, I like to be a part of the chat. I just can't chat at the same degree of chattiness. Yeah. And so then I mute it and then it's on me to check in and, and then I miss some stuff.

But that's the price you pay. Yeah. But you have to know, you have to know where you fall and you have to behave correctly. And, uh, I, you know what? You can find it. 

Jonathan: I've got a, I've, I've, my, the only add on to that [00:46:00] is I, uh, sometimes, uh, the, I guess there's only two group chats that I can say this about, but I find a, a buddy and I say like, I gotta mute if something, if there's real information.

Can you, if you're staying in, can you hit me like it's it's 

Tom: next level? 

Jonathan: Yeah. Like, I gotta be honest, I'm muting. Yeah. So if something real happens, like I've missed some 

Tom: stuff. Yeah. I, I, I, I will, I guess I will say to my brothers and sisters of chat. That, um, maybe there's a way to like create, if you want to have a chatty chat chat, then make a chatty chat chat, but don't do the important information in the chatty chat chat.

Jonathan: Sure. And 

Tom: do that somewhere else. But then you run into the problem where you have like a million different chats with the same groups of friends. Yeah. And they're all labeled different things. Yeah. And I think that there's a value to that too, but, oh boy. We have just fallen so far from, I 

Jonathan: don't wanna, I don't wanna, um.

Blow up your spot. So I'll only say this about me. I'm not gonna ask you about you. Yeah. But I have group chats and then I have side chats within those talking shit about what's happening in the group chat. And that's, it's a dangerous fun, but it's dangerous it game. Its super dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. It's a dangerous game.

It's a real, it's like, it's like, feels like Vegas at the [00:47:00] craps tables and there's like a thousand bucks on the table all the time. Every time I send m like I think it was right. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, remember when you sent me, uh, you. We were, we were messaging, and then your next message to me was, um, a little aggressive.

And then immediately you were like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. That was not for you. That was for the group chat that was supposed to go over here. That was the, 

Tom: yes, yes. I've also, I've texted other group chats multiple times about the podcast. Um, I have a real problem. Um, having Messenger on my computer screen.

Um, so the same messenger I use on my phone for some reason on my computer screen. My eyes don't wanna understand who I'm texting with. And I'll, I'll, I'll think I know who I'm messaging and I'll, I'll, I'll work too fast and send off to the wrong people. I haven't, haven't done anything too dangerous, but I need to be careful.

Yeah. Alright. Who are you gonna fight this week? 

Jonathan: I'm gonna fight, uh, Theon. And not even 'cause I'm that angry at him. I mean, I do think that he's a part of what sent us down this shit hole of a world win right now. But I just think he's [00:48:00] everywhere. He's doing anything for a buck right now and he'd probably be a pretty good fight.

So it's not even out of like anger, I just. Think he'd probably be a fun fight. Mm. And, and shirtless. And then we'd make somebody do it. Yeah. Yeah. Shirtless. Whoa. You'd like, okay. I'm there. Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. Alright. Alright. And on that note, uh, am I reading us out? You reading us out? Please do. Thank you for listening.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to No Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms and YouTube graphics and music by Matt Ladner. And a sincere thanks to Jen Dorn Bosch and Quan Williams, the, the.

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only. 

Jonathan: You still had FEL boxes in your mind. That's not your fault. I did. It's not your fault. I did Happens. I love man in my mind as I drift off. Love 

you. Bye.