I Thought This Was Supposed to Be Fun!

Jonathan and Tom take a moment to mourn the end of an era — this is their final episode under the name No Homo. They unpack the latest developments in the Epstein files, which sparks a deeper and more complicated conversation about the age of consent and where society chooses to draw the line.

Transcript

Jonathan: [00:00:00] What's 

Tom: up? 

Jonathan: What's up? We did it. We did it. This is, oh, this is for the very last time. No homo with Jonathan and Tom. I'm Jonathan. I'm Tom. Not the last time I'll ever do this podcast, but the last time it will ever be No homo with Jonathan and Tom. 

Tom: Yeah, it's teardrop. Uh, IP. This is episode 22. Yeah. Uh, and I, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22.

Yeah. I've been waiting to sing that. Uh, yeah. 

Jonathan: I could tell you're excited 

Tom: for it. We're recording this episode on Monday, November 17th. You guys are hearing it, uh, hopefully Thursday, but whenever you hear it, it's fine. We're fine. We're fine. Whenever you wanna listen, we're just happy you're listening.

People are listening. People are listening. People are listening. We've had. How 

Jonathan: we had 5,000 downloads 

Tom: this past week. So dude, I'm so proud of us. Yeah, 

Jonathan: it's ex, we did it. We did it. 5,005, it's exciting. 5,000 people have listened to us. Is that right? No, no, no. That's not what that means. But 5,000 has been [00:01:00] downloaded 5,000 times.

So like, you know, there's 22 episodes that whatever the people, each episode is a new one that's the same person, but. That also doesn't count, uh, YouTube. So there's others there. Yeah, yeah, 

Tom: yeah. There's like at 

Jonathan: least five or six every week. So that's like, that's good over there. I think we do okay over there.

Yeah, I just Go ahead. It sounds like a lot to me. Like 5,000 sounds like a big number. Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting. Um, I'm proud of us. We, we did it. We stuck, stuck out Joe Rogan, but yeah. We, we could be the Joe Rogan of the, I don't know. Everyone is doing that, right? Like, everyone's like, who's gonna be the Joe Rogan of the left?

How can, how about we just like leave Joe Rogan out of it? Like let's just move past 

Tom: Joe Rogan. Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah. I'm proud of us. This shit's not 

Tom: easy. It's hard coming back every week. Yeah. And trying to be funny and entertaining 

Jonathan: and Monday nights are tough. It's like, it's just tough. It's tough. But then we, we look at when, when could we do it?

No, this is the, we just. But we do it. We're here. We're doing it. Yeah, we're doing it. Okay, let's go. I know, let's remember the first couple of weeks we had talked so much about how we're doing it. People are like, stop fucking talking about you doing it. 

Tom: Uh, do we have any correction corners this [00:02:00] week? 

Jonathan: Yeah, I have a big one.

Um, I just wanna go ahead and say, I wanna go on record and say, it turns out I was wrong. It was not Jen's fault, um, that the calendar was not right. No, it really was. But she, we talked about it and she did say she came to me. I was standing in the kitchen. So that's a joke. It was. Uh, she, she took responsibility for it, but I was standing in the kitchen and she walked in from her car.

She had just come in and she goes, so, and I was like, oh, did you listen? She said, uh, just to, to be, to be fair. She said, yes, it was my fault. I did not put it in there. Um, she was kind saying like, it was a quick turnaround on this trip. This was kind of like a last minute planned thing and like, you know. In theory, everything goes in the calendar.

In practice, it's like things that are down the road that we need to look ahead to, like when things are happening in real time, if it's like the next day or two, it doesn't always go in. But she still took, she took the responsibility for it and, and again, I will say, I was talking about the podcast and the trip back and forth in conversation for two days without ever thinking about the conflict there.

So yes, it wasn't, it was not in the calendar. [00:03:00] B I'm not sure that would've changed anything. Yeah. But, um, yeah, just thought it was fun to give another moment. She, she handled it well. She, so, thanks, Jen. 

Tom: That's good. I can I say that I actually go back and I update my calendar from the previous day to make sure it reflects what actually happened.

Jonathan: What, what, so 

Tom: yeah, so backwards, this whole business of like, just, it's happening tomorrow. So it might not make it in the calendar is like baffling to me because I, 'cause you'd be like, it happened yesterday. I need to put it in the calendar. Yeah. Because you'd never know when you need to go back and check your.

Your calendar to remember when something happened. I, I taxes lawyers. Like, seriously. I think that's 

Jonathan: the problem. I think that you're not, you shouldn't do that. That's how you get caught. Well, 

Tom: I don't know, man. I do, I make sure my calendar's up to date. Wow. Um, I have a correction corner. Do it. Uh, um, our friend Haas of the friend of the pod corrected me that, um, it was not Guerro del Toro that directed the third Harry Potter, which is so good.

It was actually Alfonso. Kop Koran, I don't know if I'm saying it right, but also a talented, we'll just carry this correction another week. Totally. Also a talented director and that was the best [00:04:00] Harry Potter movie of them all. It changed the whole franchise, which is the 

Jonathan: Deltoro did not do a Harry Potter or He did.

He did that one. He did. He did not. So he just didn't do one? 

Tom: He didn't do one he was supposed to do. Um, they have similar, yeah, sort of like, um, he was supposed to do the Hobbit and then had to Yeah. Backed out or something. And I really wish that had happened 'cause that would've been cool to see. Um, but that's my correction corner.

Um, we also have big news for everybody, so we are, as you've already said, this is our last week as no homo. Yeah. Yeah. We will officially be bro homo going forward. Yeah. Um, but we're gonna take next week off, um, for Thanksgiving 'cause. We come out on Thursdays. None of y'all are gonna listen to us on think.

I mean, maybe you will. And we're sorry that we're taking it off, but we need a little break. We've done this straight every week for 22 weeks. Yeah, 22 weeks. So that's pretty, pretty major. Yeah. Um, so we'll be back in December to debut, bro. Homo bro. Homo, yeah. And continue this on. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, what, what, tell me about your life.

What happened this week, this weekend? Well, so 

Jonathan: last time we talked I was at, you know, I was, I. In a landlocked cruise ship, um, at Camelback, and it was lovely. We had a great time. The, so the next day after, [00:05:00] um, after we recorded the next day we were still there. We wait. It was a cruise ship. No, no, no. I just mean like it was a indoor waterpark and hotel.

Like it was like a resort. All indoors. So it kind of felt like a indoor cruise. I mean, like, felt like a landlock cruise ship, but no, it was, it was a resort. Um, it was a waterpark resort, indoor waterpark resort, which just gets worse the more I say. But yeah. But we had a great time. Um, I, I, uh, we had a great time.

The, the day after we recorded, we were there for a few hours and there's a bunch of slides, like cool slides, and my daughter, you know, Sydney, who's not even five yet, loves the fast slides. She loves them. She'll do. Any of the water slides she's allowed to go on. She'll do. Um, Caleb, not so much. He's been on a couple of rollercoasters and a couple of water slides and he is like, he's with you.

He's right on, he's right on board with you. Smart. But we were gonna do a family one. There's like a, there's like a big, it was like a big tube. You can fit like six people in it. So us and the friends we were with we're gonna all do it and it's like up a bunch of stairs, you gotta go up. And we got up to the top and Caleb would like.

Kind of just like lost it. Like was like, not gonna, like, not gonna do it. And I got annoyed because we had been working up to this and like, I [00:06:00] wanted to try things. I wanted him to trust us. And like, so I, I took him back down. We walked back all the, down the stairs together. Um, and I will say like I was, this was like a dad, a learning moment, a growing moment for me.

I was like, mm. I, I was at my patience end at that point. I was like not being, I was being really short with him and I was like, frustrated and annoyed that, that I had wasn't gonna get to do it, that we'd walked back down and he was crying. Um, and he, he said, it just broke my heart. And it, like, it made me, uh, just took away all of that lack of patience and made me, uh, a, a loving, caring dad again.

'cause it broke me so hard. Mid stop and he just goes, I thought this was supposed to be fun. Aw man. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So, um, he actually told me before this, uh, before we were recording, he asked me what we're gonna talk about tonight. And I said I was gonna bring that up. And he said, you don't have to talk about that.

You don't have to apologize for that. Um, so he's, he's cool. He forgives me. Um, that's cool. But we had a fun time there. Um, we saw last night we went to a thing out in Queens at a theater in Queens. Um. We thought we were going to see a [00:07:00] circus, an urban circus is what it was kind of like headlined as. So they thought, the kids have never been to the circus.

We thought we're gonna go to a circus. And it kind of seemed like, well, it's an animal less circus, which is great. I know they're kind of moving that way, like, you know. Um, so great. It turns out urban circus is just like a, just an, an ad, uh, slogan that has nothing to do with a circus at all. It was like this, it was pretty cool, but it was like.

Break dancers and a BMX bike guy and like a freestyle rapper and, um, uh, and a basketball kid could do some cool basketball tricks, but it was just like a, we were in a theater, like we weren't at a circus. All the things we had said about a circus was just not at all what hap what was happening. We, um, thought there were gonna be like popcorn and cotton cane and it was like a fucking vending machine that broke while everyone was in line for it.

So, but the reason, I reason I wanna bring that up is because, um. Our family friend, our buddy Mike, uh, who has three kids who you've met Hot Mike was Solo Daddying with his three kids there, and he knocked it outta the park. He had a backpack full of snacks. He was rocking with all three of those kids. So I wanted you to know, I wanted you to hear that hot Mike, [00:08:00] uh, was really nailing it as the solo dad at the 360 All Stars Urban Circus last night.

Tom: Wow. So, shout out, make good. 

Jonathan: Nice. 

Tom: Nice. Good job. Hot Mike. That's awesome, man. What about you? What's been going on with you, man? Um, we had a pretty chill weekend. We, we had dinner with friends Friday, and then we stayed in all weekend. We did a lot of chores. Um, we, uh, cooked for each other. We, what'd you cook?

What'd you cook? We'll get, there's an and, 

Jonathan: and, and on the outline here, we'll get, we had some, we had some couple time. 

Tom: Um, so it was really nice. Yeah. What did you have? What'd you cook for each other? Um, like a little lasagna. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I made, I made delicious oatmeal one morning, you know. Wow. He made eggs and bacon.

Wow. But it was a busy weekend. Like we had a lot of stuff to do, but it was nice to not be social. I needed a break. My social battery needed a break. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Uh, we also caught up on a lot of culture stuff. Um, segue. 

Jonathan: Oh man. Uh, we, we finished. It's a bummer. We're taking a break after this because you've gotten so polished at your segues.

Thank you. Thank you. They're [00:09:00] seamless. Uh, 

Tom: we finished British Bake Off, which I love. I love that show. Toby is so hot. 

Jonathan: He did not win, but Beautiful. Do you watch it? Uh, I did for a long time and I'm, I'm all for it, but no, not, I don't keep up with it anymore. Yeah. 

Tom: It's one of my favorites. It's such easy.

First of all, you can look at your phone during and you can come back and when you come back it's fine. They'll be talking about baking and when you finish, they were talking about baking. Like it doesn't matter if you go take a phone call and whatever, like it's just such easy, it's a great TV show to watch before going to bed.

Um, we're still watching English teacher, we finished English teacher, which. Ugh. Uh, I'm, I'm good with English teacher. I'm sort of glad it wasn't renewed. I hate to say that. I know a lot of people love it. Really? Yeah. It just didn't work for me really. I, uh, I, I've, I thought it was a little bit all over the place, but, um, it's 

Jonathan: season two's out, right?

Like that's what, yeah. You saw all of season twos out. Okay. I haven't watched any season two. I like season one, but I have not watched any of season. Yeah. A lot 

Tom: of people seem to like it, but yeah. Um, Orville Peck's new album came out this week. Last week. Yeah. Tell me about it. I haven't 

Jonathan: heard any of [00:10:00] it. So Good.

It's an ep. 

Tom: I think it's six tracks. Okay. My two favorites are Drift Away, which was the single that he released. Okay. And then he did a cover of maybe this time from Cabaret, which is so good. So that's all 

Jonathan: I heard that it was on there, but I haven't heard it at all. Yeah. But yeah, I nailed, it's good.

Awesome. 

Tom: Yeah, he's hot, he's talented. It's so good. And last night we watched Plain Clothes. I Love which a, it's a movie starring Russell Toby from looking, you may not know him, but the gays listening to this podcast, uh, British actor with ears. Um Sure, sure. Okay. Uh, he was in the original cast of the History Boys.

Uh, okay. Sure. He, he was opposite Jonathan, Jonathan Grin. Um, and, uh, he's so hot and out, uh, and opposite Tom Blythe, who Tom Blythe was in, um. Giled age, but, uh, he's not well known. He should be after this. It's an a fucking incredible performance. Alright, cool. It's about a closeted cop in 1997 Syracuse, who's doing sting operations for, uh, men hooking up at the bathroom of the mall.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he's actually, like, wants it. And, uh, it's, it's really, [00:11:00] uh, good movie. Really well done. 

Jonathan: So cool. Yeah. All right. Um, is it a, is it based on a true story? I mean, is specifically based on a true story? Um, or is it just kind of like No. Mean, I don't think it's based on a true story. It's based, 

Tom: yeah.

I think it's a, I mean, this stuff has already, we talked about it on a podcast. It's happening currently in Yeah, it's 

Jonathan: going on right now. Yeah. So's. And I, there was something I, I did a, uh, this is gonna, there's no context, there's no, um, specifics to this at all. I did a reading a while back of a, of, uh, a Stonewall adjacent story, and it was the same thing.

It was, it was like historical fiction about a cop who was, uh, uh, in the closet. Um. And doing the same back in the doing Sting operations around here on the city, um, at the same time. And I, uh, that was based on something more specific and more, more, uh, real. But I, that's, I've already said all of the words I remember about that.

So it wasn't on the outline. I didn't know to bring that up. I just, were you good in it? Were you hot? I was great. I was hot. Yeah. Um, were you 

Tom: the cop? Were, did you get cruised? Yeah. 

Jonathan: Yeah, it was like, it was like a really, like bigoted, angry, [00:12:00] violent cop who turns out to be a case. Yeah. All of all of it.

That's amazing. I'm sorry. 

Tom: Why did, why wasn't I invited to that? 

Jonathan: I don't know. I don't remember. I didn't help with that audition. I didn't coach you for that. You've helped with that audition, our entire friendship. That's what, that's true. That's true. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, one thing that I missed that I want to go back to real quick is culture and personal lives and correction corner and all the above.

You know, I'm, you know, I'm a farmer now at the garden club at, at my kids' school, right? Um, yep. Yep. Um, and we've been, we've been looking for donations, uh, things that people want to, you know, whatever, soil or, or raised beds or whatever. And I, last week, and we should have talked about it last week, I just missed it.

Um, 'cause of my. Uh, calendar my outline in my organization, but we just passed the, uh, five year anniversary of Four Seasons Total Landscaping. Mm-hmm. And so I actually reached out, uh, a little bit, and I'm gonna try more. I, I really want to get them, I would, I wanna get them to donate. I would drive to the Philadelphia to the, to the [00:13:00] exit off of 95, around the, around Philly, between a sex shop and a crematorium to Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

And I don't wanna go into all the details, but if you don't remember the story of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, so Good. You gotta look back into it. It's, it really should have been the funniest ending to the dumbest part of Modern American history. Um, unfortunately, we're still in it, we're still doing the, the dumbest part.

Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, it's a really incredible, it's a really incredible story. It's one of the story, it's one of the things that like, gives me a little bit of faith in the bigger picture here, because it's just so funny the way that real life came together for that. And, um, that's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna leave it out there a little bit, but I, I miss four Seasons Total Landscaping.

I'm glad we just had the anniversary. Happy anniversary to all who celebrate. Um, if look it up, go back and look into it. Um, it's, uh, I would do, I would do a bottle episode that's just talking through that I kind of want to do like a serial style investigative journalism podcast on Yeah. Because I have my own, I have the, I have, uh, theories [00:14:00] that, I mean to say what they told us might not be true is the most, uh, I don't know, redundant thing you can say about this administration, uh, any version of this administration.

But, um, I just think it's hilarious and I think that it. I, I, I suspect that the truth is even funnier than what, uh, we think, um, anyway. You mean that we think 

Tom: they thought they were booking at the four seasons, like 

Jonathan: hotel or something? Yeah. Well, okay, so I'll, I'll try to give a quick, uh, 'cause that can rabbit hole on this one big time.

Yeah, please don't. Yeah. Trump. Trump tweets four seasons. Uh, uh, lawyer, press conference. Four seasons, 11:00 AM and then if you, at some point later. Because he deletes that one quickly. Yeah. And then later says, four Seasons Total Landscaping. And then it comes, like, the story becomes, um, that a, uh, staffer got it wrong.

That this is always the plan to have it at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping, which is a landscaping store, a a very like, fine, but not overly successful, just regular old landscaping store on off a random exit off a 95 outside of Philly, literally in a parking lot [00:15:00] between a crematorium and a sex shop.

And so they. Then the story became like, oh, this was always the plan, just someone told him the wrong thing. So he, when he said that, and I think that's clearly bullshit, I think that he thought he was doing what he can always do, which is tweet something into existence. Mm-hmm. He could tweet it and it would be true.

And Philly at that time was all about fuck around and find out they were, Philly was, was not, not having it. And I feel very strongly that somebody from the Four Seasons Hotel said, uh, we need somebody to let the uh uh. Mr. Trump, president Trump, I guess No, uh, that won't be happening. He's not doing that here.

Which, which if that's true, then what happens next is people were tasked with having to find a place with four Seasons in the title. And there are like. I've done this research. There are many, many, many stores in the Philadelphia, greater Philadelphia area with four seasons in the title. So I just like really like to believe that people were just calling around, just calling anything that had four seasons in the title and who they got to say yes was Four Seasons [00:16:00] Landscaping and no, no fault to them.

I, I appreciate them for that. They said any president, any anyone who had, who would ask for their parking lot, they would've said yes to that. I don't think they were trying to support one campaign over another. They just said, yeah, sure, whatever. Because how would you, how would you choose what, what person would've thought?

Let's put the, the president with a bajillion sex scandals and COVID under his, on, on, under his belt as two of hi the, the greatest hits of his career. Let's put him in a parking lot between Let Sex Shop and a crematorium in front of a place that literally sells bullshit. I just think it's the funniest, it's the.

It's the funniest thing. And so I, to me, his hubris is what got him there. Not some staffer getting it wrong. 'cause it was always supposed to be that. Um, anyway, that's the, that's the least rabbit hole I can be about it. Um, but do your research or, uh, call your senator and tell them you want. Us to do a break off podcast 'cause the senators will demand it.

It's just been weeks since we told anyone they needed to call their [00:17:00] senator. So call your representatives, call your senators. Yep. 

Tom: Yeah. Uh, yeah. It is a very funny thing when hydrated again, I love that story so much. Yeah. Joined that story. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, a, a not so funny story. Uh, ProPublica this week, uh, investigated a report came out.

They investigated the Chicago immigration raid. This is the one where, um, Blackhawks were flown, uh, over a building in Chicago and, um, ice agents, um, repelled, is that the right word? 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Uh, repelled down in masks, uh, no IDs. And this was like two or three in the morning, I think, and pulled everybody out of the building, uh, zip tied children in the alleyway.

Um, and nobody was arrested. Nobody who, nobody arrested was criminally charged. No. There's been no evidence that the building was filled with terrorists as they claimed there was absolutely zero, legitimate reason for, uh, for the Department of Homeland Security to do this raid. Uh, and I just think it's so sad and, uh, just, um.

Terrifying. 

Jonathan: [00:18:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's a mess. It's, uh, it's, it's, it is terrifying. And, and anyone who, anyone who says like, well, ICE is going after, first of all, illegals, go fuck yourself. But going after, even, even if you could correctly say undocumented immigrants, like there, but Sorry. Oh dear. I'm sorry. Um. Without due process, without a correct way of doing any of this.

That's not even on the table. You don't know clearly there were no criminal charges here. Like it is just, it's just inhumane in, yes, inhumane is a great way to put it. It's just full aggressive scare tactics and I mean, not even scare tactics beyond that. It's, it's crazy. It's, it's. It's crazy. The cruelty is the 

Tom: point.

Um, yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. Um, I think we obviously need to, we want to talk about the big news this week. Yeah. Which is the Epstein Epstein story developing. Um, so we've had all of these emails been released, which are not the Epstein files. Right. Um, as everybody, uh, many people have been, uh, saying, and there's been a lot of, um, sort of damning, um, discussion [00:19:00] about Trump, uh, and about other.

People, um, none of which is a surprise to anybody with a brain who's been paying attention to anything over the past 10 years. But, um, it is, it is, um, it, it, it is fascinating to watch. It does feel like the facade is starting to crumble on MAGA and certainly on Trump. Yeah. Uh, did you see the footage of him, of the White House and him playing Phantom of the Opera inside on Sunday?

Wait. Yeah, so he loves his, wait, I 

Jonathan: saw this in the outline and I thought it was just from the Sn l sketch because they did like the guy, the guy who brilliantly does Donald Trump on Sn LI forget his name, but Brilliant. Did like, like covered, uh, music of the Night as Donald Trump in one of the cold opens.

I didn't know he was, this was a real thing. Yeah. So 

Tom: he loves his playlist. He loves to DJ at Mar-a-Lago in the White House, and he, he loves memory from cats. He loves his fan Phantom of the Opera songs, and there's footage from Sunday afternoon at the White House and you could hear Phantom of the Opera.

Blaring from inside, uh, the White House, which is just like fucking crazy. [00:20:00] Um, but, uh, I don't know, man, like the right bending over backwards, seeing people like literally bending over backwards to rationalize like Megan Kelly saying, what the fuck 

Jonathan: was that? Oh my 

Tom: God, it's so, so disgusting. 

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, it.

It's hard because I, uh, so my like, well, Matt Gaetz, right? Just looks like apparently paid a 17-year-old, uh, on, on how 17-year-old, uh, to have sex. Uh, like who's he's been, like, that's how is he still around? How are, how are these, how are these guys still around? And I get, I get that. Trump is his own, like Teflon, Don, whatever, that people are bending over backwards to keep him.

I, I don't, I, I, I don't understand why, but I guess there's, like, if I had to try to figure out because of the bigger, also dangerous, also amoral, uh, soulless, but the bigger, uh, strategies, like we gotta keep this dumb puppet in place so that we can get this other stuff done. Mm-hmm. But it's just, it's, it's, you're right, it's like falling apart in front of us.

He's getting, and I know that like week one or two, we thought we were doing this. We [00:21:00] thought, um. Maybe he was gonna die and you know, he didn't. But it just seems like his health is never gotten better and it's his, his, he's gonna die. Mental facilities are crumbling. He just seems awful. Yeah. And did you see the, the White House tried to put out a, uh, the power couple?

Yeah. Like the ultimate power couple. That was like, she was clearly AIed into that, into that photo. Like, or cropped into that photo. There's like a cell phone filming down, like the picture includes a cell phone. That has them walking, except for she's not in it. It's only him because they only put her in the real image.

And then like, it's, it's so badly done. It's all duct tape. 

Tom: Yeah. 

Jonathan: And it's clearly all duct tape. So I don't know why 

Tom: I, I'm just waiting for the people in our lives that voted for Trump. I'm, I'm dying to hear the responses. I'm dying to hear, like, I don't know, man. Yeah. I also, I, I have to say, I, uh, something that's bothered me the last couple days is there's all this business about Trump blowing Bill Clinton.

Trump did not, I'm sorry. Trump did not blow Bill Clinton. That is [00:22:00] ridiculous. First, does no one understand like, uh, hyperbole? Did, did anyone learn hyperbole? The word hyperbole in English class? Like, and I, I think it's dangerous for our side to joke about that. I, at lunch today, at the place where I make my money, um, grown adults were sitting there and one turned to another and said, um.

Uh, Donald Trump. Did you hear Donald Trump blew Bill? Bill? And they were Bill Clinton and they were talking about it like this was re like there were, oh, people in this country that literally believe this now. Yeah. And, and the reason they're, they believe it is because fucking idiots on the left are all over social media acting.

And, and maybe some of them are doing it joking, but most of them are not. People actually believe it's, I got a, 

Jonathan: I got a thread doing pretty well right now that was making a joke about it, but I, I think it's. I think it's hilarious. I think it's a funny joke to make. Uh, I don't think that Donald Trump blew Bill Clinton.

Um, but I do think it's really funny. Uh, I, I just, I, I actually, I get what you're saying. I, I'm kinda on [00:23:00] the other side because I, it's all because they do this shit all the time, was like, yeah, I wanna make. Them comment on it. Like I wanna push it like, yeah, I know you didn't, but like fucking now we're all gonna talk about it.

So that you have to say you didn't, you have to say out loud, I didn't blow Bill Clinton. Yeah, but I get, I get what you're saying about like if it actually comes, I don't know, like as up a gayman 

Tom: too. If and if he did. Those are two grown adult. Yeah, that's. That part is, it's not, it's not a joke. Like men blowing each other is not a joke for 

Jonathan: him.

It is for, for someone who's like the head of a group that is so homophobic, so transphobic, so, so phobic. Yeah. And, and has like just so many sexual allegations and like, prides himself on being such a, I mean, prides himself on being a fucking predator. Yeah. Like I. For him. Yes. Yeah. Blowing a dude is not in and of itself a bad thing, but Donald Trump blowing a dude is hilarious because of who he's built himself up to be and who he what.

We know him to actually be who he has tried to make himself be like, to me it's like when, um, there were, there were [00:24:00] rumors going around about, um. Oh God, why did I just forget who his first this forgettable guy, this milk toast dude. But who is the Mike Pence? Yeah, Mike Pence. When there's rumors going around about him, like I get it, like trying to out somebody is not funny, but outing somebody who is so, so, uh, harmful to the community.

Or like, even 

Tom: like Yeah, I, I get the hypocritical, the hypo criticalness of it and, and calling out that. I just, uh, as a gay man, I find it dangerous too. I don't, it makes me uncomfortable to see people make jokes about men blowing men. Like I just, uh, I don't know. And I, I think like our tenuous hold on truth.

In fact, if there even is a tenuous hold anymore in this country, it feels like there's not, like facts, facts don't seem to matter and truth doesn't seem to matter. And I just feel like our side should do a better job of like. Let's just, whatever's in these files and in, in this story that's bad is bad.

And let's find out those facts and let's deal with them. 

Jonathan: Well, the truth about, I mean, who knows what that was referencing, but the truth, like, so much of this stuff is like, [00:25:00] sorry man. Um, what happened, bro? What's going on? I don't know. I just got flims in my throat. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll mark that out.

We'll see. Um, no, we won't. Nope. I looked at the time and then did this, like I'm gonna write down and didn't even write anything down. So yeah, that'll all stay in. Um, but so much of what came out in those emails was like the proof of how much work was going into Sure. The pr uh, handling of Trump, like whether it's with Russia or, you know, like, like the.

The, the players involved. Like anyone, anyone's surprised that Trump not blowing a man, but like if there's sex stuff that comes out now, like the man is a predator. The man is disgusting. Yeah. The man's a pervert and a predator like, like that. None of that should, but, but if more comes out, then that finally convinces someone great.

That none of that should be surprising. What, to me is more damning about all that is this thing is so woven in. This is like. Ev, Steve Bannon, Michael Wolf, you know, everyone that's connected to you wouldn't even know is exactly [00:26:00] connected to the Epstein stuff, is all connected to it. And it's all, yeah, been a big working thing.

And it's like, it's, to me, it's crazy. It's like, you know, when there was fucking Pizzagate or there's like the fucking Wayfair catalog problems, you know? Or like, like the or, or even like even just like gender patrolling bathrooms. You know, who gets to use what, bathroom is such a fear mongering kind of thing, until you realize like, well, they.

They think this way because they are this way. Mm-hmm. Like it's kind of become this self-fulfilling prophecy where like the people who always said like, you can't trust the government, you can't trust these, these people are psychos with their sex rings and they're sacrificing. So whatever it is, you know, like, yeah.

Well now those psychos, it's because they're psychos. It's because they're the ones that don't mind raping children or whatever, you know, whatever it is. Covering up whatever they need to for each other, like, 

Tom: yep. 

Jonathan: That's what, what Kara Swisher 

Tom: always say. Our girl, Kara Swisher always says every, um. Every, um, oh, 

Jonathan: accusation is an admission.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I'm not sure. 

Tom: Uh, yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, yeah, it is, right? It is. It is so [00:27:00] ironic that the Pizzagate people are the ones who are now being like, it's different having sex with a 15-year-old versus a 5-year-old. Like it's just 

Jonathan: disgusting. But I think that, that there really is like in, yeah, I mean, to bite Kara like that is.

It's so true. Like I, I'll say this, I remember like in college, I, I cheated on my girlfriend, uh, one of my girlfriends in college. I cheated on her and, and then was also convinced she was cheating on me. Like everything became like, I don't trust you because I know what I've done and I don't, trust me. I'm not trustworthy here and now I don't trust you about any of it.

And uh, and it was a toxic thing anyway. We, it was better to not be in that relationship eventually, but I, I did the wrong thing at the time and. Also was convinced, had convinced myself that she was doing the same wrong thing. And it's just because, like yeah, when you live the world, when you live a life that way, that's what you expect to see other people doing.

Yeah, totally. Like so that's what, yeah, it's an, it's an, it is, it's an a mission. It's like all of this is, all of this is true. All of the fear, all of the, what felt like fear mongering, what felt like made up Gar [00:28:00] insane garbage. Turns out. Oh no, it is true. It's the, it's the. Accusers. Yeah. Uh, are the ones perpetrating all of it.

Tom: Yeah, for sure. Well, we, we, when we were talking about prepping this episode, we talked about trying to spin this topic that's so much in our culture right now, after this weekend. Um, and, and jam on it a little bit personally. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, and so I thought a good place to start would be, I don't remember if it was this past New Year's Day or the one before, but you and Jen were over, uh, new Year's Day.

Yeah. I think we had partied the night before. Mm-hmm. And we were all kind of like veggie out on the couch watching some football. Eating pizza, nachos, something, something like that. Yeah. And, uh, Quan and I were wooing at all the hot college football players. And you and Jen were both, um, how, how would I, how would you categorize your response?

You guys admonished us? 

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. For, for, for, 

Tom: for wooing at, um, college aged players. And we had a bit of a, um, back and forth about it. It wasn't an argument, but like, um, Quan and I didn't agree with you guys. Um, but, [00:29:00] uh, so I, I thought we'd start there and like, um. Maybe pick up that little I know, I know.

We won't solve it. We probably won't still agree, but I don't know what's so fascinating to me. I'm, I'm going at a little bit outta order, but we talked about this the other day. I think what's fascinating about these laws, and there should be laws, um, because the human brain is not developed until your whatever age it is in your twenties, and it's different for men and women.

And, um, consent is a very re real thing. And if your brain is not fully developed, you can't give consent. And we have to have laws to protect kids obviously. I, I very much believe that. But what's so interesting about it is it's, um, it really is kind of this arbitrary thing. Like, it it, like one day you're 17 and you're not, you can't have sex with an adult, and then it's your birthday, you have a cake, and then the next day, now you can have sex with a man who's 45.

If you're like, that's crazy. It, it's, it's actually crazy if you think about it, but there's Right, there's like no other way to do it. There has to be Right. Some way to, um, oh. Network is struggling. Uh oh. Yeah. Uh, okay. [00:30:00] 

Jonathan: They caught us. They're onto us. They don't want us talking about this. They don't, they don't.

Tom: Um, so yeah, let's talk about that. Um, new Year's Day and like, 

Jonathan: yeah. Yeah. I, I think that there's, uh, and this, this conversation is, you're right there, there has to be an arbitrary number, but there's also like a few different parts to it that are um, I think important to kind of delineate from, to kind of like separate out and silo the parts of this conversation.

Like, like for instance, that it. I guess like as a question, let's say hypothetically we're watching college football and they cut over to the cheerleaders and I as a 40 something year old man am wooing at the 18, 19-year-old, 20-year-old, but 18, 19-year-old cheerleaders. Do you feel any kinda way about that?

Do you feel the same about that? No. Do you feel the same about that? No, 

Tom: I, I think it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I think, um. Yeah, I do. I think, I think that, um, I think that there, I think you're an adult when you're in [00:31:00] college. Um, yeah. 

Jonathan: Part of the thing that, that is the difference for me, a little bit of the difference for me is like, there's a, there's an expectation I think that, uh.

Because look, there's no way around it. Like youth is beauty, there is a beauty to youth. There is an there, like, there is an at attract, an attractiveness to younger, to youth, to youthfulness. Mm-hmm. Um, and I am, I'm with you. Uh, there's something about the, and I, I don't even know exactly how to, how to say it, how to frame it, but there's, there's something about like the, the, uh, life experience and it's hard to like.

Like if you can separate out, and I guess that's part of the thing is like separate out, like just physical appreciation of, of physicality, like Sure. And then you think about like, what are the steps involved with, like, do I want to fuck that person and what, how are the what, what actual steps get me from where I am now to fucking that person?

And it's like, do can I relate to a 20-year-old at all? And if I can't or if I can, then what's going on? And what is that ex, is that normal? Is that okay? Is that. Maybe, you know, depending on what, what [00:32:00] it goes into that. But, and then if I can't, then I, is the, is the depersonalization of sex, like where does it, where does that fit together?

So the real world implications of like, I want to have sex with a college age person is, uh, there's a, there's a, I don't know. That part, that's one of the things for me because I, I agree with you. Like, then there's a different conversation about like. Sorry, Meg Kelly, but 15 is still fucking too young.

Like that's 100%. You can't, that's Yes, that's, that's a gross, insane thing to try to delineate there. Um, but I understand like, yeah, eventually when you're a young person, a young adult, you're still an adult. Um, there's just like a. I think, like I've heard Jen say, like, it, it, she, she would have a hard time respecting someone.

I don't even think she would say that politely. She would not respect someone who feels, who, who's in their forties and feels like they can relate to a 20, even 23-year-old, 24-year-old enough to spend time with them, enough to have sex with them. And I think that there's like. A difference [00:33:00] in some of the mentality going into it, you know, like how much time do you really need to spend with someone to fuck 'em?

Um, you know, d is different, different people. Yeah. I mean, I 

Tom: just wildly disagree with Jen about that. Um, I, as, uh, in my late twenties dated someone who was much, much older than me. Um, and it wasn't something, it's, I, I wasn't. The kind of gay guy that always looked for sort, sort of like a daddy. But there's plenty of gay guys that do that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Um, and this, this guy was a huge, um, is still an important part of my life and really was like a great friend to me and a great, really great mentor. And, um, I learned so much from that relationship and I never once felt like I was being taken advantage of or I, I I, I How old were you? Sorry. I was, I was.

Uh, 24, 25. Yeah. Um, and I have always been emotionally mature for my age and mentally mature for my age, and I was ready for it. And I, um, I don't know. I I, and I don't think [00:34:00] there was anything wrong about what we did. I mean, it's, you know, I'm not gonna speak 

Jonathan: for her at all. I don't, I, yeah. 'cause she's not here.

I'm not gonna speak for her, but I certainly, there's like the. Uh, every, there's a, there's nuance to everything and there are, everything is a case by case. Uh, uh, uh, uh what words am I trying? Uh, this network shit just thrown, right? Everything is on an individual basis. Like Sure. Like, yes. There's also the other side of it.

Like there's just to scale all the time. I see, I, I see at least, I dunno if you do, but I see like grown ass men who are. Whether it's just spending money, like if it's whatever daddying, you know, here in New York, like whatever it is, like to have the chance to have sex with someone younger, significantly younger.

And yeah, if you, if you're, if that person is in their twenties and, um, of sound mind and, uh, wants to be a part of this consensual agreement that your apartment or your dinners or whatever. Go into play and or, or it's just like you have a good relationship. Like that's its own thing. If you can, like, if you feel like it's a, it's a healthy [00:35:00] relationship, that's great.

I, I don't know how I feel about, yeah, I'm not sure what the, uh, 

Tom: I didn't follow what the apartment and the dinners had to do with anything. 

Jonathan: Like sugar daddy, like sugar daddies who like, like, you know, like the, the economics of it are a big or, uh, a huge part of it. Like that's, there's a big part of that that is uh, sure.

But not always. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying when it is that, yeah, like I, I have a hard time like. I don't know. And also like if everyone's an adult and consenting, like, I get that too. It's, I think it's more of like, that's, that's way different than any of the legal stuff. That's just like its own respect thing, I think.

Like, I don't know. That's 

Tom: also like, if you don't like that, don't 

Jonathan: fucking do it. Yeah. But there's no reason to judge anyone else about it. Um, I think, well, I think that, I think that they're not always respectful situations. I don't, I think that's, I I have no problem saying that neither, neither 

Tom: is, neither is a, a, a guy and a girl who are the same age in their thirties getting together.

There's. Oftentimes those aren't respectful situations, men beating their wives or whatever. Like, uh, boy, this just took a swing. Okay, sure, sure, sure. I just, I feel like I have to like, really stand up for this. I also feel like from a gay point of view, um, we are at [00:36:00] a disadvantage. We do not. Uh, and I think it's changing now.

I hope it's changing now. I hope if one of your kids ends up being gay, I have, I have a lot of hope that I think it will be different for them growing up. Um. I didn't get to experience puberty and going to the prom, and I mean, I did all these things. Um, I did experience puberty. I did go to the prom, but I didn't get to experience it in the way that my, um, uh, colleagues, what's the word?

Peers? Um, peers. The way my peers were, like I was, I was hiding who I was. I wasn't being my true self. I wasn't dating, I wasn't like. I wasn't dating in that messy way high schoolers do, and making mistakes and, and having my heart broken. Like, like gay men are, are stunted and, and, and, and, and, and like, um, there's, there's, there's a, a, a long lineage going back to the Greeks of like older.

Gay men fostering younger gay men and, and teachering them and mentoring them. And at that time in that society was, you know, very [00:37:00] respected in a normal thing. And, um, I think I, I did a, you know, I, I, I did a lot of theater growing up like you did outside of school and I interacted with a lot of adults and, um, I learned about being gay from.

Guys who were in their thirties, and, and I don't mean like sexually, I mean like I learned like what it meant, like what, what it would look like to have gay friends and what it would look like to have a community of people where I could be myself. You what I mean? Yeah. Just to be 

Jonathan: clear, I feel like we, I, I, I almost.

Not that it was, uh, uh, that's, this is not what I thought we were talking about today. I don't wanna sound like I'm arguing with the chance to like, meet someone older and, and learn things about life and be like, be a part of a mature relationship. Like that's not I, but, but then sometimes sex like. And sometimes sex is the only part of that.

I'm saying it's also, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Any relationship can be di disrespected. I think that or can be disrespectful. I, I think that there's a danger because the closer you creep toward that, [00:38:00] you end up saying, well, 15 and 18 are that different. Well, you know, and then how, how far down do you go in that until you like, yeah.

Then it's no longer about, it is not a physical, there, there is a point. And I think that probably in the, in any, maybe not any, but like it's possible. I don't, I don't give a shit about a may December relationship, be older than I like somebody. I, I, I'm just saying like, once it hits that, that college age thing, I think is, I, I will say I still think that's different.

Like when we're talking about, and there's a lot of, like, there's a lot you can go into about the, uh, uh, what's the, like, met, not maturation, but like the, um, like looking at football players or like, certainly like athletes of color. They making them feel older and treating them as older than they really are and expecting, uh, a more mature mindset out of an 18-year-old because they're big and because they do this thing that we sure used to professionals doing.

You know? So I, I, I think that that is a, a, a risky line because. Yeah, we talk about this arbitrary number and for me it's like, let's just move away from that spot. Like, yeah, I, young people are attractive. Yes. Yeah. I, I, it gets [00:39:00] DI don't want to have to, this is not where I'm at in my life anyway. Like, but I, I wouldn't want to have to worry about when your birthday was.

Like that's what I'm Totally, totally, I agree. I would never 

Tom: get close to that personally. Yeah. So that's what I'm for sure. 

Jonathan: I don't give a shit if you're in your twenties and you're dating someone in your forties or fifties. Like I, whatever. Yeah, like that can be fine. I think that there's, I think that that is leaves space.

There's room there for the riskiness that then is the same thing that creeps down. There's a lot of like power dynamic that can play into that. There's a lot of like, and then you just, as you creep down, now you're talking to a teenager and now you're talking to a high schooler that does not have, that is not of a.

Of a mind to have that kind of consent with a, an older person, you know, like Yeah. And there's the, the, the power dynamics that it can exist in that, that can be easily construed as abuse. I mean, there are, there are abuse not even easily construed as abuse for sure. So like, I, I don't wanna sound like I, I'm against.

People being different ages. Like I, I just think that there's a risk. And the problem is once it gets to an actual point that there is a problem that there, that there is this, this is undeniably, uh, uh, non-consensual [00:40:00] because that's not a brain that has been developed enough to consent. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's what I like.

Because that's what's happening out there right now. Like, we're not talking about, like, in fact, to go back to what you're saying about, uh, Trump and Bill Clinton, like, I, I understand what you're saying. Uh, the, what I saw more of on the internet was people saying like, Hey, can you keep Monica Lewinsky's name out of your mouth for this one?

Like, it's not, let's not bring in a woman who was, um, also in a, in a position to have power abused against her, to, I mean, bill Clinton was, was abusing his position in that, in that situation. Sure. But she was a woman of consenting age. That was its own thing. That's what, you know, that's whatever. And that became its own thing.

That like, I don't think that I, she shouldn't have been drawn, she's brought into it. 'cause it's, people are making jokes about it and like, you know, like she's the last person that we know to talk about blowing Bill Clinton. Like whatever. Mm-hmm. So she gets kinda brought back up in that. But like, she shouldn't be dragged right now with this whole thing coming up again.

That was a situation where he was abusing his power. Yeah. And that these guys are, the Epstein thing is, is abuse of power, like. Maybe they're all, maybe they're all like [00:41:00] pedophiles in the way that they have spent their whole lives being attracted to children. I think they're just power mongers and they can abuse, they can hold power and wield power over children.

It's easier to wield power over a fucking child, you know? Mm-hmm. And that abuse is clear that way. Donald Trump is. It, it's not that he's like such a a, a Casanova and sometimes whoopsies, she was 17 and not 20. Like he's a predator. And that's a different situation. Like for for sure. That's Yeah, that's a predator situa.

That is a, that is a, like, that's what I'm saying. I don't need more information to come out about this. I don't need to find out that someone was sp we know that they were 14 or they like, well, I don't need those details because I already know he's a predator Who, who? Wields his power that way because whatever, whatever reason, um, he can't get it.

And I don't know what, whatever, why ever his morally bankrupt self does that shit. There's, there's no question there that, that is abuse and that is, you know, rape and that is all of the bad things. That is not a, even even, is it consensual? Was she [00:42:00] 18? Is it like at this point, like that's abuse. So yeah, I, I don't mean I, I we can disagree.

We can agree to disagree about like 18 and 19 year olds on, like, I don't. I can look at a cheerleader and be like, that's a beautiful young woman, but I'm, I'm not gonna, like, I don't, I'm not gonna wolf that person. Like, I'm not, I don't feel like that's where I want to spend my energy or my time, you know, like, um, and I, I just get, that is a, it's a, it's a risky line to me because it starts edging further and further that way.

And then you'll, when it's, when it's a question of like, when's your birthday? Then that's just not a part, a conversation I want to be a part of. 

Tom: Right. Well, yeah, and don't get me wrong, I'm not like, um. I would never date or have sex with anyone college age. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in, like you said, getting close to even having to wonder what that line is.

Um, so we're totally in agreement there. Um, so yeah, for sure. That was, that was fun. That took it. Yeah. Yeah. We're solving all the world's problems, right? Yeah. Did we, did we 

Jonathan: solve [00:43:00] anything in that one? I don't. 

Tom: No. No. Uh, you know what it's time for? I do. Who would you fight? Who would you fight? Pow. Pow. Ooh. I love the snaps.

Snaps. Snaps. Jerome. Jerome Robbins snaps. Uh, I'll go first. Okay. I wanna fight behind. This is so not timely 'cause we just, the election just happened and it's not even a presidential election. But I wanna fight people that hide behind the electoral college when they vote. Um, I know people that didn't vote for Hillary, uh, because they live in a state where it was gonna be a blue state anyways, so it didn't matter that they didn't vote for her.

And so they voted for, uh, one of the other stupid candidates that weren't Trump. Um, whether it's. You know, Stein from the Green Party or whoever that asshole was that was on the, uh, libertarian ticket. Um, and, and the argument was, well, it doesn't matter and it's a protest vote because I don't like Hillary.

And that's a whole nother story. That's misogyny. And that's someone being mad because. She didn't bake cookies and, [00:44:00] uh, said something about it. But, um, I, I, I just, I, I'm tired of that. Your vote matters. And I, I know the electoral college is so fucking annoying and so fucking stupid. But, um, I, I, I don't think people should hide behind, uh, the electoral college when they vote.

I think you should vote. Uh, 'cause, 'cause those numbers really do matter. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah, like that. Um, I'm just gonna take, uh, I'm going to, I'm gonna step off the, the high road for a moment and say, I wanna fight the other No homo show. Fuck y'all. Yeah. Whatever. I get it. But I, I wanna fight him. Well, I don't need to, I don't need to elaborate more there.

I don't need to go into it, but I just feel like not being, um. Uh, I'm gonna be a little petty right now. I'm just gonna tell you the low road for a moment and say, uh, fuck you. I wanna fight you. That's all. But 

Tom: yeah, 

Jonathan: it, I know, it's fine. I know it's, I know I'm not, I'm not trying to make you feel, I'm not trying to take 

Tom: that away from you.

I, I get it. I, um, I, I'm, I'm bummed too, but I'm excited about our new name. 

Jonathan: Yeah. 

Tom: And we had 22 solid no homo episodes. [00:45:00] 

Jonathan: Would you? Would you, uh, would you, would you fuck us? Would you, would you fuck that 22, 20 2-year-old? No, homo? Uh, yeah. I feel like 22 is 

Tom: cool because you just. You just, you like you're done with college and Yeah, sure, sure.

You've been on the world for 

Jonathan: a minute. You've been Yeah, we're of, we're, we're fully, we're, we, we're finishing, we're leaving the no homo world as fully consenting adults. Wait, did alright? No, I'm not gonna ask you personal 

Tom: questions. What, what's the oldest woman you ever hooked up with? 

Jonathan: Yeah, I, I mean, I, I agree.

Like I, I have no problem with a may December relationship. I'm telling you. See, I'm telling you. I, yes. I also Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I 

Tom: mean, you can tell 

Jonathan: more 

Tom: if you want 

Jonathan: to. Those are the like, no, I mean, I think, like you were saying, like as an individual basis kind of thing, and you understand what's, as [00:46:00] long as you understand what's going on and as like, as there's not a, a power to make at play because of whatever Yeah.

Employment or whatever else, you know, whatever kind of, whatever might be happening there. Um, yeah. I. I got no problem. I got no problem with, uh, uh, an older person and a younger person. I, I promise you, for, for exactly. Oh, how many days is it for Exactly? 50 days a year? No, not even that. For, yeah, for, for exactly 50 days a year.

Jen is older than me and it's my favorite 50 days of the year. Uh, 

Tom: year 

Jonathan: wise 

Tom: or 

Jonathan: something like her age is a year. Her age is, yeah, so we're, we're both 82 and she is, uh, 50 days old, 49. 49 days older than me. And so those days are my favorite days of the year. 

Tom: Because then you're with a cougar. 

Jonathan: Yeah. To be with older woman.

Yeah. 

Tom: I love it. I love it. Alright. Should I read this out? Please do. Is it my turn? I can speak, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh, thanks for listening to Jonathan's Hawking. If you, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like and subscribe to no know. Oh aw. [00:47:00] Make sure to like and subscribe to Bro Homo with Jonathan and Tom on all podcast platforms and YouTube graphics and music by Matt Ladner and a.

Rambunctious. Thanks to Jen Dorn Bosch and Quan Williams. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and are intended for entertainment purposes only. 

Jonathan: I'll see you, man. Way to close out. See you on the other side. Way to close out the knowhow. Have a happy 

Tom: Thanksgiving, everybody.

Jonathan: Yeah. All right, man. Alrighty. Love you 

Tom: too. Bye.