Forming Future Citizens An American Education Worth Preserving with Guest Dr. Khalid Khan

In a free nation, education is never neutral, it is always forming something.

In this episode, Dr. Khalid Khan explores what it really means to educate a child for citizenship, not just academics. Through examples like the restraint of George Washington and the life of Benjamin Franklin, we consider how what children learn shapes the kind of people they become.

At the center of this conversation is a simple but often misunderstood idea: you can’t teach a child to think without first giving them something to think about. Knowledge is the fuel for thinking, and without it, true understanding never takes root.

You’ll hear how Lafayette Academy builds that foundation through rich historical study across each grade level, meaningful stories, and books like Why Not, Lafayette? that help form what we call moral imagination, a child’s ability to recognize virtue, responsibility, and truth.

We also discuss why the school delays screens and technology in the early years, not to resist the modern world, but to protect attention, cultivate focus, and create real pathways for deep thinking.

This isn’t about producing better students.
It’s about forming future citizens.

Not just what is my child learning, 
but who is my child becoming?

For more information about Lafayette Academy, A Classical School please visit https://lafayetteacademy.org/

For Referenced Resources from the LadyK Podcast Click Here for Download

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

All right, welcome back to the Lady K podcast. I'm Katie McKinney, the founder and head of school for Lafayette Academy. And today we have a very special guest, Dr. Khalid Khan, who is one of our math teachers here at Lafayette Academy, his first year here with us. And I think what makes Dr. Khan's story so compelling is your background between global tech and education. And you've worked with organizations like CSC, a global IT service and consulting company, Citibank, Allstate, and you've also earned your doctorate in STEM education, which is interesting. And you've seen really education from a multiple or a multitude of angles. But what I find fascinating here is that you've intentionally chosen a classical model in which to invest your energies and your talents. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. So welcome, Dr. Kali.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Thank you. It's a joy to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

So I'd love to just start with your journey to go from the tech world to education. Can you give us a little bit of insight as to how this unfolded?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, sure. So it all started. I was hired in India. You know, at that time I was out of college, and I was uh hired for a company in New York. It's an insurance company, and um I was to to join there in 2001, so some 25 years ago. And that's when I started this journey, and um I worked there for uh in different companies, uh, mostly it was financial services company, insurance. I started building um computer softwares and systems, design, development, maintenance. And my team spread across um the continent, and it's real joy working there. So um I worked there about um, as I said, um 20, 18, 19, 20 years. But that was um there in the back of my mind that at some point there was a spark in me that I have to get into education, but there has to be the right time for that, and I have to see that everything is right for me to make that switch. Because I had seen my uh my parents working really hard to give me the opportunity, better opportunity that they had. And um, I always believed that education is a powerful weapon to change the world, as uh famously Dr. Mandela said. I truly believed that. So um I wanted to invest in people, invest into young mind, and uh give them the opportunity that I had coming from wherever I came from, a small town in India. Um so yeah, I found that um right time and I managed my my whatever the risk in switching, and then I made that jump and I and I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

So, and then when getting your PhD in STEM, um, has that what what I guess that obviously dovetailed into your career quite nicely, the STEM component of it. Or why did you choose that and uh how has it benefited you?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, when I got into education, so I had to learn how to teach, you know. I was good in education from the beginning, you know, I was a science and math enthusiast, but doesn't make me a good teacher. So I got into education and I did my master's and then I did my um uh education, uh doctorate in education. So I I felt, and in the side I I started teaching, and that really helped me to apply the theories that I got into my campus, and and uh that uh really helped me explore different um ways of teaching and different theories and philosophies. And the great thing about doctorate is they load you with several theories and they they didn't they don't tell you which one is the right one. It is for for for me to pick and choose because when you get uh that level, so it is you are the one who has to figure out. So, yes, that helped me. And yeah, I made it a point to get educated uh before um before getting into the you know real teaching.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Smart, smart. Well, I we've talked a little bit about mathematics being a classical liberal art. Um, and I wondered if you could expound on that for our audience.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

So liberal is kind of freedom and teaching, learning math, having confidence in math gives you freedom. You know, traditionally, uh liberal arts like the content in uh like math and science, those were considered for free people, those people who can think for themselves, who are not needed to be uh, you know, follow instructions. So people traditionally learn math, not for just for doing something, but just to understand uh how it helps them uh see the order, beauty, and and and uh and and truth in in math. So that's how I I feel, and that's what I teach in my classroom, that math is not just a little tools for you that helps you in doing your day-to-day things. Of course it does that, but it helps you, it helps extend your horizon, you know, and uh that's how I see, and classical education certainly believes that um math is uh is a liberal arts because it gives you um education for the sake of uh for the for the fun of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I we often talk about how classical education is really just an avenue to think. And we have these pathways camouflaged as math or science or literature as just pathways for thinking. And so to your point about order, yeah, um, I think that's uh mathematics is it's a language, but it's also an illustration of order in that language that allows our children to be able to think logically and uh and come to a specific end.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Absolutely. I totally agree. And I want to show that side of math to my student. Uh many a times we get lost in the topics and the details of procedures and formulas and all. But I make it a point when I am putting something before writing the formula over there, I tell them like how, in what way this topic is going to empower you and extend your thinking.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Excellent. Yeah. That's beautiful. I find it interesting that your experience has um inculcated multiple systems. Um, you've got your corporate background, your public school education, you had some public education in there, and now classical, and you have chosen specifically classical education as the as the vehicle in which you're investing your time, um, for which we're very grateful. Um so I wondered if you could share with us what stands out most to you about the classical approach. Uh you've I've heard you many times say it is the best way. Um, what is it about it do you think that is so attractive to you and beneficial to our students?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, when when I made a switch uh to education five years ago, so my understanding of the way education should be was the way classical education represents itself. That's the way education should be. And when I got into public education that at that point, I um I saw a gap in my understanding of what education should be and what was I found there in practice. And that gap has um built a frustration in me. Like this is not what I thought. I found found people distracted due to so many so many different reasons. Yeah. And uh so when I see that classical education, when when I so that frustration led me to make a switch at one point after teaching in public education for a good three years, I thought it's time that I at least sit and explore what other things are available. At till that time, I wasn't aware that there's a different education by the name classical education. I was just searching for the education that I had and that I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Aligned with your values. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah. And then when I learned about classical education, so it was like a homecoming for me that, yeah, this is what I thought it to be.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

How did you learn about it? I don't know that part of your story. Was it through us or was it through a different network?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I'll I'll tell you. So when I stopped, when I decided to quit my public education, at that point, I was just sitting and thinking that what do I do now? Whether do I go back to my corporate job or do something else? And I was sitting and figuring out like-minded people on LinkedIn, and that's when I saw your profile over there. And I sent uh a message over there.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

You did, yes. Yeah, yeah, last summer.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And and then very quickly, very soon I received a reply from you that okay, come over. And we had a chat over there. You remember that?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and what I was so taken with when we when we talked initially was your your um just your alignment with the values of classical, and which I understand maybe you had a similar education in India growing up. Yeah. So there was a lot of synergy there for both of us, but I think just how how quickly you seem to acclimate to what we were doing, and that really impressed me. Um, and and that's what we want in our teachers. We want them to, of course, align with what this pedagogy is all about. Um, but you really, you could just see you lived it. It wasn't just something you teach it. It's yes, it's part of who you are.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, and there's a contribution of my dad, big contribution. See, I didn't have like read through the Western classics as my regular education. I was trained in in the culture and tradition of my country. But my father was a well-read person, and he has read all Western literature. All the big authors like uh Dostofsky and Mark Twain and all the big authors, I heard from him for the first time. And I saw those books at my home, and he was the one who recommended books. So I had when I was a teenager from that point in time, and I did all those from out of my own interest because it was not a regular curriculum. I was reading like Mirza Ghalib and something like great poets of uh Eastern of India, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

And on the side, I was I was doing that. And when I came here and learned about that, I said, okay, I know this.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

That's fabulous. I love that. Isn't that beautiful how it all write things at right times? Yes. That's wonderful. Okay, so obviously you've made your home in America. I'm curious what it is that about America that resonates with you. And then if you can talk to us about how you understand the American experiment, specifically to the republic, liberty, self-governance, which we talk about all the time. What is it about that that is so attractive?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, so I I'm, as you know, I'm coming from India, and um, from India, as part of my education, we learned about all the great umpires, like British Empire, India was part of that umpire, French and Portuguese and Dutch and um uh Spanish. We never heard of American Empire, right? Okay. We never heard of that. We heard about American Revolution and so even the the old world or the world that was known in the 15th and 16th century didn't know about America till late 16th century, right? 1592 or so um but in quick shot two centuries or two or three, a couple of centuries, what America became now that is something for everyone in the world to think. That's so so important. And that's what I thought. And uh that's where that's where uh I I I I want to say that the revolution, the American revolution, I when I read about that, then I then I understand like what it means to be to be America and how developed it has become.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So uh what so what does it mean? What what is that what is it about that is so for the world?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, what we learned is America is not not developed and not become what it is through conquest or winning over others or wealth. It became what it is through some ideas, great ideas, and when we look at those ideas and the founders, that's when we realize that what it is. And um, like um you have um freedom and liberty and all men created equal. At that point in time, those were uh revolutionary, like freedom or liberty as a human right, like everybody should have that across the globe. Those those things are something revolutionary. And when I see that uh that American experience and what India gained from that, that's also phenomenal. Um the founders of India, you know, Nehruz and others, they they they they were influenced by the founders. And uh when we when I see the Indian constitution starts by the same three words, we the people, that's a part of the declaration of independence. Then I understand that what happened here wasn't restricted within the borders of America. But the the impact gone beyond the borders, and um even we benefited by that.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

That's beautiful. And and so perhaps too, even embracing the American tradition sounds like obviously maybe it's enhanced your own Indian tradition as well, knowing kind of where the roots were for your Indian con for India's constitution.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yes, absolutely. Our founding fathers were, I know that they were influenced by by the revolutionaries, like the founding fathers of America. They brought those visions into India, Indian political vision.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Is that why your dad had some of the Western canon as part? Why why was he interested in that? I was just curious.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, he he had that, he had that. And yeah, at that point he was a well-read man, and everybody, as I said, that it's a question for everybody, how in so short period of time? Yeah. Nobody heard about American Empire. Like as we we had Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, this empire, they had centuries of history behind them. But for America, it's just three years, 300 years.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. Taking what you've just shared with us, do you see a connection then between understanding those ideals and a classical education? You know, is that a connection for you as to why it, I guess, why you were drawn to classical education?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, classical education, you know, it um it tells you to value where you are right now and how you got here. And that's very important. So if you don't understand that, you don't value what you have, right? If you know the stories of your freedom experience, why um why you know someone from France, Lafayette, our school is named behind him, came all the way from France to fight alongside George Washington and participate in the American Revolution. So all those stories, all the sacrifices the founders made, if we are not aware of those things, then we don't value what we have. Yeah. We take it for granted, and we if we don't value something, we stop protecting that. Yeah. And if we don't protect it, eventually we lose it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I say. And classical education puts it very well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah. That's my point. I agree. You and I were talking earlier recently, and something you said really has stuck with me. You mentioned that families coming from other countries, if they truly want to understand and participate in the American tradition, a classical education is the best pathway, if I don't I don't want to put words in your mouth, but a very significant pathway. So I was wondering if you could talk to us about, in your view, uh, what that means, not just to live in America, but to belong to it.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Um, living in America means you are living within the borders of America, no matter what kind of document you hold, maybe you are a citizen or whatever you are, but and belonging to America means you um means you participate in the conversation. You understand the language, you understand uh the literature, the writers, the authors, you know, you pick up a thing and you make sense of it. Um, you can go out and participate in any conversation about that. So, and that comes from uh as um uh Edie Hirsch very well put it, that's a cultural literacy. And reading him gave me uh uh uh some new insights into um how beneficial it is for immigrants who is coming from other cultures. Of course, they have their own cultural heritage, but now they have decided to live live here. And um so if you are well versed with the core knowledge, the shared knowledge, that's when you start feeling a belonging to that. You start contributing to that.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And I find it interesting and somewhat sad that um, you know, we have Americans who live right here, and yet they don't have uh that cultural literacy, you know, our system has somewhat failed them. Um, and so frankly, that's what impelled me to do and found the school because I found that shared knowledge was not being shared, you know, from generation to generation. So it's I think it's wonderful that obviously the ideals have spoken to you and you have embraced those. But we also have Americans right here who they don't have that knowledge yet. And we have work to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yes, yes, indeed. But for those coming from different cultures, like coming from India or South Asia or from anywhere, it is your classical education. Our that education is a gift for them. And yeah, it's it's it's our thing. You and I have to make them aware that we are there.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, that's that's true. So on the other end, what would you say could be lost if students are not educated with exposure to the Western tradition and the ideas that have shaped this country and and humanity?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yes, so I covered a little bit of that when I was saying that uh if you don't know who you are and how you got here and the sacrifice that your founders and founding fathers have given, then you will not value it. And if you don't value it, you will eventually lose it. Yeah. So classical education makes a promise to, you know, provide that education. That's why classical education is so vital.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah. I have loved um Dr. Khan teaches somewhat outside of my office, and I have a glass wall there, and so I can I can see and hear about what you're doing with the students. Are there is there a moment you could share with us that has um reminded you why you enjoy teaching? Um, you teach a variety of our students. Have you had any moments that have been poignant that you could share?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, as you said, you um I also teach, you know, the students who need additional support.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

And and those other students who have who may have internal internalized, because I had conversation with when they just joined, they would say, maybe I'm not good at math or something. And when they spend time with me, maybe a week or two weeks or four weeks, and after that, when I see a change in them, that math is not so hard. And I'm I think I'm good at it. And uh very recently, one student, I wouldn't name her, she said, I stopped in my class in math. Imagine somebody came as a she needs additional support, and now she's doing those are the moments, and that happens quite often. Even today, that happened with one student. Those are the moments that I thought, yeah, I'm making a difference.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, yeah. You are making a huge difference, and it's fun to hit to your point, just for the for our audience sake, we we have a number of our students who are veterans and who honestly, when they start younger, there's no opportunity for time to, you know, squeeze in there and make a gap in terms of their knowledge based. But when they come to us in middle school, unfortunately, uh the previous school or the system has not served them well. Honestly, this could be another conversation, but the tech, the computers in the classrooms have have really usurped the opportunity for our children to know how math works. I've seen the biggest gap in math because of the computers. Um, so that we can get to that in a minute. But um what I what we're finding is that the students who are coming to us in fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade are the ones who have these gaps. And truly, it is now or it could be never for them to arrest that that chasm. And you are a huge stopgap in that in that process, which you know, these kids will forever thank you for helping them first off, not only understand math, but then hopefully come to love it, which is what I'm seeing.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I I agree. You have placed me uniquely there. Of course, I would like to have more students like that. But yeah, that's students who are finding it hard, and I'm making them enjoy that literally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

So let's just dovetail for just a second about your background in in global tech, AI, perhaps, and education. Benefits, consequences, I'm just curious what your own experience has been in that. And if, you know, we don't have computers at Lafayette. You know, are you are you thinking that's a good way to go? Or do you think there's a marriage here that could be harmonious? Or what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah, I I was immersed in technology. That's where I come from. So I I understand all that. Yeah. So the most pleasant thing when I walked into this classical education that school was that the students are not distracted. And so what we need to protect is the ability of our students to get into deep thinking, to have sustained focus on problems, to wrestle with problems, get their own ideas. And technology, you know, whatever we have and whatever other schools are using are a huge distraction. And you know, ed tech companies, they think education is a big money-making domain. And it is essentially. Yeah, we have a smooth transition.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

So would you say that that keeping, well, let's put it this way, having students in an environment that's technology free, at least K-through what is a healthy.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

I would say 10, 11.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah. Yeah. So someone coming from global tech, quite astute in that you're saying computers gone at least till 10th grade. And then maybe a tr a soft transition, which honestly is what we do. I mean, they they do a lot of their writing, but it's only literally the you probably, I don't know if you've seen this, they walk to a closet, they get the computers out, they go to the classroom, use them, and put them back in the closet again.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, it doesn't take a very, you know, computer savvy person, me or anybody to figure that out. Right. You know, where I taught, most of we teachers, we had a quite understanding that see, that technology is doing more harm to our children than good. We teachers, we knew that. Nobody had that, like, okay, I'm not. People were confused what to, and you made a decision, and we value making a deep thinker, and we have to protect that. We have bigger things to protect. So I think even if a little bit here and there we are losing on that, but I'm very sure that we are saving much more valuable things, and that's ability to think.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yes, yes. Well, so that kind of dovetails into sort of my my wrap-up here with our conversation. What is giving you hope about education and about the the Western tradition here that we're teaching?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Yeah, so parents are actively seeking opportunities for their children. And parents are asking all sorts of questions, like what it means to be educated for my child. And another thing is in this world of AI, whether uh my child needs to have all the knowledge and all. So both kinds of conversations are going on. And I would say, like those who say that in the age of AI, where everything is available by a just a short prompt, why do my child will have all the knowledge? But I want to tell to them that knowledge is um not an ornament for thinking, knowledge is a fuel for thinking. You know, if you don't have knowledge, it, you know, you can't think. And that's not a rocket science. Everybody, if I have to write a paper, if you see, if I write a small five-page paper, I have to read, you know, 100 different articles. Even more if you go and see in the reference list. So knowledge is more important today than ever before. Because you have to validate what AI is giving you. It may give you garbage. Right. If you are AI-driven person, if you think it has everything, then you are on a very sticky slope, you know?

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

So knowledge is important. And um, yeah, you and I need to answer those parents' questions who say both kinds of things. Those who want real education, of course, we have to tell that opportunity is available. And those who think why to have that memorizing and learning and acquiring a lot of knowledge when everything is here, we have to tell if you don't have knowledge, you can't think. That's right. You can't be a part of any conversation. That's right. Till the time we have uh uh some technology where we can build that AI and your neural network is connected to a mind. Please know. No, that's because in neuroscience we had we have not done a lot of work that's a long time. So yeah, knowledge is important, learning is important, and um yeah, deep thinking is important.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah. Gosh, there's there's so much more I would like to talk with you about. But I will we'll pause there. Um, I I thank you, obviously, not just for this conversation, but for the contribution you're making at Lafayette and of course the impact you're having on our students. And um appreciate so much your perspective. And um, I'm grateful we found each other when we did. Yeah. And uh, you've been just a great blessing to our to our culture and our school and our students. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Wonderful. Likewise, and I'm I'm still exploring a lot of, you know, because uh from your library, from the the teachers and people around me.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

So yeah, thanks to you for that.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Well, you're welcome, and and may the journey continue. Thank you. All right, thank you for joining us today and hope this has been helpful. And if it has, share it with friends, and we'll look forward to the next time we get together. Thank you. Thank you.