Traditionally Self-Published with Mica Merrill Rice

Back-to-School 101: Copyediting Basics Without the Shame Spiral with Jayne Marshall

• Mica Merrill Rice • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Today, we delve into the world of copyediting and how it applies to your self-publishing journey. In this episode, you will get a better understanding of the difference between the developmental editor and the copyeditor, when you might want to bring one onboard, common misunderstandings, preserving the author’s tone and so much more. By the end of this episode, you will have a solid grasp of what a copyeditor is and Jayne’s five best tips that you can put into play to give your manuscript a grade up.

Jayne Marshall is an author and a developmental editor at Modern Odyssey Books. Her latest book, A Line Drawn or Printed: Six Routes Through Madrid, can be found at all fine retailers. She currently resides in Spain.

You can also follow her by visiting one of her sites below:

Have a publishing question? Email me at mica@micamerrillrice.com

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"Traditionally Self-Published" theme music is written by Landon Bailey and performed and produced by LNDÖ


SPEAKER_02:

What's up plot twisters and a warm welcome to my page turners, the intrigued readers and listeners who are just stepping into the story. Whatever title you fancy today, I am so happy you're here with us. You're listening to Traditionally Self-Published, where we unravel the chaos of self-publishing and help you write your own success story like a pro. I'm your host, Mika Merrill-Rice, author with a passion for learning and sharing the love. I'm bringing you real talk with publishing pros and indie authors just like me who flipped the script and built thriving author careers on their own terms and are doing it like a pro. Whether you're rewriting your third novel or still plotting your first, you're right where you need to be. This episode is part of my inaugural back to school series and covers editing 101. Today we're unraveling the magical world of copy editing. What is it? And more importantly, when in the process do you need one? If you've ever wondered what separates a polished book from a forgettable one, this episode is definitely for you. I am joined today by the very lovely and super patient Jane Marshall, a professional editor who's based in Madrid and works as an in-house developmental editor at Odyssey Books. She is kind enough today, she's deviating from her job as a dev editor to indulge us with all things copy editing. So today we're going to talk about the role of the copy editor, how an indie author can best prepare for one, how they preserve the author's voice during the process, and then we're going to conclude with the Ink Starter lightning round and Jane's five best tips for authors. All right, students, class is in session. So thank you, Jane, so much for joining us. I really am excited to do this. Thank you for having me. Awesome. So Jane, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as you mentioned, I live in Madrid in Spain, but I'm from the UK originally. I've been in Spain now for 11 years and yeah, I work as a development editor. I'm also a writer myself and I'm just a big old editing geek. So I'm really glad to be here to talk about all things words.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. All right. So, so fun. All right. How did you get into the editing business and what types of editing do you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as you mentioned, I am a development editor mainly, but I also do copy editing. And as we're going to discuss probably later, there is a lot of overlap between the two sort of disciplines. And the way I got into it, I guess it was a bit of a circuitous route in some ways. I'm a typical lifelong reader. I was the kid under the blankets with the torch, reading after lights out and probably ruining my eyesight.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think, you know, having a love of words is probably a good basis for any editor. and then when I moved to Spain my first job was teaching English which I'd never done before and that really gave me a great understanding of the nuts and bolts of the language and how to answer all these really obscure grammar questions that my students would come up with and then after that I studied a creative writing masters which gave me a really good understanding of the nuts and bolts of storytelling so those two really helped me to get my first job basically as an editor, which was a Spanish publisher here in Madrid, but for editing in English.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. And I love that you read under the covers and stuck your reading late at night. I think many of us do this. And yes, we are big rebels and I love it. All right. So let's get into copy editing. Tell me first, how does it differ from developmental editing, line editing, proofreading? How does it all fit in there?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yeah, it's a great question. And I just want to say first off that I think The terminology is really useful. Obviously we need that, but I think it can also occasionally be a little bit confusing, mainly as well, because there's lots of different words for the same thing. And I think maybe that could put people off sometimes and make it sound like the editing process is just ridiculously lengthy and overwhelming. So just to say that, but so my take on it is that it comes down to three areas, which are the ones you mentioned. So the first one is the development edit or the structural edit. Those are the two main terms. So that's the big picture stuff. The second is the copy editing or the line editing that you mentioned. And that's for polishing and consistency. And then thirdly, the proofing. So for technical accuracy at the language level. And that's the order I would do them in. And so, yeah, the difference between copy editing and development editing is like going from zoom out on your story. So that's the development edit. So, yeah. I like to imagine it like some big empty room with your, this might be because I'm very old fashioned and analog, but this is the way I imagine it. A big empty room with your manuscript laid out page by page by page. And you get this like brilliant overview of it. And you can see, oh, this chapter needs moving up to more to the beginning. This theme is trailing a little bit here. This character is getting a bit lost in the middle. those kind of big picture things or zoomed out things. And then zooming in would be the copy editing. So a line level where you can reinforce those other bigger things in a sense. So where can you reinforce your themes and where can you make sure it's all tallying together, but also consistency. So I'm trying to think of a good example, like one I do all the time. I think it's a UK-US English thing. So I use whilst instead of while, but then sometimes I'll switch. So just to make sure, you know, you're consistent with all of your, you know, little kind of quirks in that way. Yeah, but like I said before as well, there is quite a lot of overlap as well. So when you're doing a line edit, a copy edit, you might see... opportunities to reinforce your structure or your themes you might even think oh you know what I'm actually going to move that paragraph like to the end or something like that you know so there is quite a lot of overlap there as well

SPEAKER_02:

Very nice. All right. Well, that's great. I, it's so funny that you say like you use waltzed and like we might say, well, but I'll do both. And I have no idea where it even came from. I just do both. But I love that you are, your job is so detailed because I think like as a writer, sometimes we, we read it so much. We miss these things. And that's why like, you know, giving it to someone like you is so like deeply important. So very good to know. So now that we've We know what copy editing is and we're zoomed in. When should an author look to hire one in the writing process?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Great. Another great question. So I would say when the manuscript is basically is tight. So your themes are set, your themes are clear, your structure is stable. It's kind of done at the level of plot, characterization, timing, theme, again, pace. All of that is done. you know, on a big level, but there's still polishing needed at a line level. I would say that generally would be around your third draft. And I don't mean like a draft, like, I don't know, you've just flipped through it and then changed a few things and that's a new draft and not there's anything wrong with that. This is just the way that I work. So a draft is a third draft would be like, it's been through three quite, big stages already and you're pretty much happy you know the story's out of your head and on the page but now you just need to yeah like polish it all up nicely very

SPEAKER_02:

nice yes I uh I know we talked about like it's three main edits I think I mean it depends on how you look at it right it could be like 50 I can feel like 50 it could be like 100 and I think as a writer you just I know for me when I got to the end of mine it was like I don't know what else I could do to this. I can't like read this anymore. I'm sick of my own writing. Now it is time to give it to

SPEAKER_00:

somebody else. Totally. No, that's totally normal. Yeah. My first boss called it giving it to somebody with distant eyes, which I always really liked. It's like, yeah, my eyes are definitely not distant anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. I love

SPEAKER_02:

it. So where in the publishing timeline should copy editing happen? So we finished our manuscript. We're done doing it. Is it copy line edit first and then of editing, which I think you've already kind of touched on. But for the listeners, like where in the process does it actually happen? Is it first? Is it second? Last? How does that go?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, in a word, second, I would say. So you've got your, you know, you've had the idea, you've got it all onto paper, you've worked with somebody to or the editor to develop the story and the themes. And then yeah, you're pretty much like happy that it's all in place and then you would go to to a copy editor or might be the same editor um to make sure it's just you know really really fantastic and then you would hand it over to a proofreader to make sure all your commas are in the right place and your eyes are dotted and your t's are crossed so to speak um before you then literally get it ready for printing or for ebook Awesome

SPEAKER_02:

and what do you feel like more authors

SPEAKER_00:

understood about this stage? Yeah I love this question because um it kind of touches on something which is close to my heart about editing more widely which is um well for one thing I think it should be fun which might be controversial but um so I understand that it could it kind of on paper, pun intended, could sound like a real pain, you know, trawling through the manuscript line by line. You know, it doesn't necessarily sound like something very, very fun or rewarding, but I really think it is. And I've kind of got a tip on that later as well. So yeah, I understand that it can be fun and rewarding, but then also with editing more widely, it's also not a stage that I think that we should skip or, or think, I don't know, or that can get fixed later on. So for example, if we're talking about querying, for example, you think, oh no, the agent, they'll like the idea, they like the plot, you know, the kind of pitch, then we can sort out all of that other stuff later on. I don't agree with that because I feel like the aim should always be, you know, to make our work the best it can be. And that's for us as writers more than for anything else. And obviously there's always going to be changes. There's always going to be things that you see. I don't know if you've seen this meme going around saying, like, the best way to edit your work is to publish it and then you see all the mistakes. Oh, yes,

SPEAKER_01:

I know that.

SPEAKER_00:

So there are always going to be those moments. But I think we should always be striving to feel proud and happy with our work. And that basically is the aim of editing for me. So that's kind of what I would like authors to understand, really. Don't skip it and try and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02:

Very, very good advice. I love it. And on that, I just had an extra question that I wanted to ask. So you talk about an agent. Obviously, if you were going to go the traditional route, you have to get an agent and then the agent's going to pitch it and then somebody will pick up your manuscript. What I'm wondering is like, who tells us writers, like we write the story, obviously we have an idea in our head, but maybe it's not like, you know, it's not something that, you know, readers are going to read. Like, you know, there's certain things that readers are into, maybe like a trend. Who tells us that? Is it like... an editor? Or is that like the agent that says, I don't know, this, you know, found family trope, let's say is like, this is done, like, we're not doing this, you can't do it. Or, hey, you know, I love the story. But like, first person is super hot right now. So if you can do this, but in first person, like, how do we know what's trending? So that, you know, while we're like, kind of working through the story, we can kind of think like, what would the reader actually want?

SPEAKER_00:

yeah that's i feel that's the million dollar question isn't it um well i'd say there's possibly two ways of looking at it one is to just try and ignore trends because they are trends and by the time you've actually finished your manuscript and got it out in the world probably the trend has moved on to something else so you know to it's kind of cliched i guess but i i do believe it that You've just got to go with what you feel as the writer is the best way to tell your story. So that's one way, just ignore it. I think the other way, which probably happens naturally for any writer, is just to read widely and that way you're going to know what's hot and what's not. In terms of who would tell us that, I feel like an agent might, unless they, well, yeah, if they were very, very interested in your pitch and your story, they might suggest... I love it but you know can we switch the POV or can we set it in a different country or time zone or something like that and that also might be something that you could work with the agent on that and do like loads of edits and then they send it out on submission to publishers and they might have a different opinion you know that's kind of what I mean by when I say your manuscript is done it's actually kind of almost now done in that sense yeah but yeah what was one last thing I was going to say about that oh yes just that an agent told me once that any agent or publisher when they receive your you know the manuscript you put your heart and soul into and so many hours of work they will see it as a first draft

SPEAKER_02:

that's very good to know even as an author like we have to remember that when you know when we're done writing and we choose to hire an editor which I think is super important as I mentioned like That is a very good point. Like you're going to send it off. It's not done. It's going to come back. But I, but I love your advice. Like we don't have the, you know, indie authors don't have that ability to go to an agent and talk to them because we're skipping that and we're going straight to an editor. But I love your advice about reading widely. I think this is super important because you can be a writer, but you're not going to be great unless you're actually reading too, you know, and reading like different genres or, you know, just, kind of picking apart a story what did you like what did you not like so

SPEAKER_00:

exactly yeah I agree like you read something and you feel really excited by it and think oh that what they've done there is so like you know different and yeah that's a it's the best way to learn for sure

SPEAKER_02:

for sure so how can us indie authors best prepare our manuscript before hiring a copy editor um

SPEAKER_00:

um whereas yeah as i mentioned before definitely the big picture stuff so you've got your you know your your plot is working there's no holes your characters are all you know well formed and uh three-dimensional uh timing pace all those things because if not basically it would just be a waste of money because if it's not already tight structurally any line edits that an editor will make at that point will probably end up being redundant because the author at some point will have to go back and fix all that other big picture stuff so so all that money is spent on on the on the copy edit will be you know at least probably 50 percent lost so make sure you've got yeah your big your big structural changes all done and then then you can hand it over

SPEAKER_02:

Very good. And what about like working with potential client? Like you're an editor, right? But do you edit certain genres? Do you like to sit down and talk to the actual writer before, you know, getting into it? What are like red flags for you? What are some of the hard passes? Like, I don't know, like, should it be like, I don't know, a dating app, you know, where you kind of like, we talk to each other a little bit and you're like, well, you might not be for me and I might not be for you. So maybe you need to find like another one or do you just take anything and everything?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you hit the nail on the head really. For me, it's the dating app analogy. There has to be, yeah, you have to basically get on well, I think. And be, I was going to say on the same page, coming up with all these puns I didn't know I had in my head. But yeah, there has to be, feeling that you can work well together in in a nutshell so um my i was thinking earlier it's a bit like therapists have their own have their own therapists so i'm i'm an editor but i also have my own editor for my own work so i understand like how emotional the process can be and and i feel apprehensive every time i send something to to my editor because I think it's human really, or, or at least for writers that we, we secretly just want the editor to come back and say, do you know what? Absolutely perfect. Don't change a word. I think that's like the, you know, it's equally what we want to hear, but that's, you know, just isn't how it works. Not even for the so-called geniuses. So all that to say, like, I, I understand that it's, it's a very vulnerable process. So yeah, I understand that, but at the same time, I want to work with somebody who is open to suggestions, who wants to work collaboratively and make it a rewarding experience for the author to see their work go from one thing to another. I'm not saying that it comes to me or anyone in a bad way, but you see how you can just make it shine, basically. someone somebody that I work with would would really have to be open to that and I know it sounds kind of obvious but there are people that are very resistant to all the suggestions that they have hired you to make so yeah I just I would want to work with somebody who sees that um the value in that collaborative relationship versus like it's it's me versus you it's writer versus editor kind of thing

SPEAKER_02:

I love that, a team

SPEAKER_00:

collaboration.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. So when an author sends you a manuscript, what is it like? Are you getting out your big red marker and you're like, this is terrible, I don't want to do this? Or should there be like, author sends you a manuscript, leaves you alone for a little bit, lets you kind of digest it? and then come back. And then when you do come back, if that's the process, like, should it be like a little bit back and forth? Like, how does that work? Like, how does that editor-writer relationship supposed to kind of work?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Another great question. I do personally try not to impose too much structure on that because every author and every manuscript will be different and have different needs. So it's better to let the person and the words dictate the system that you'll use versus the other way around. But it is obviously very necessary and useful to have a way of working. So the way I work, and I think most editors work, is you have sort of a pre-conversation. So the author will come to you and let them know, obviously, about the story and the manuscript itself, what they're looking for. because as we discussed with the terminology, sometimes, and it's obviously perfectly normal, an author might come to you and say, I want you to edit my manuscript, but not realize, or maybe not know, you know, the different levels and terminology and stuff. So you just, you know, you might ask what stage are you at? How many drafts have you done? That kind of thing, an outline, not a pitch exactly, but you know, a summary of what the story is. Some editors do a sample edit, but yeah, which is a good idea too for both the author and the editor to get to know each other's working style. But in my experience, generally after that preliminary conversation, I'll just jump right in to the manuscript and go through, yeah, do my thing, send it back to the author. So for me, that generally looks like margin comments plus an editorial letter. So sometimes, so the editorial letter is a little bit more touching on the structural stuff. So yeah, kind of things that you notice that you don't exactly want to point out on a line-by-line level, but more generally over the manuscript, you've noticed, like, I don't know, a manuscript I worked on recently, a sense of place wasn't really coming through, yet it was actually very important to the story. So, like, just to say generally develop sense of place, not obviously that, with a bit more detail than that, you know, that's the kind of thing I would put in the letter, and then margin comments to support that. And then after that, send it back, either we might have a call like this, you know, like a video call to discuss it or I might do another round after the author has gone through my original comments and then I'll do another round with them another call so it depends also depends on the length because I edited a novella recently which was 16,000 words so that was quite easy to just go back and forth a few times but Then I also recently did an 80,000 word manuscript. So that's a little bit different. You can't really just like ping back and forth on 80,000 words. So yeah, generally it'd be a round of edits and a call or a couple of round of edits and a call.

SPEAKER_02:

Very nice. Awesome. That's very, very good to know. Just knowing that there should be a little bit of back and forth, but giving you time to get through it before you're coming back. And then also taking into account the size of the manuscript. That's extremely important as well. All right. So let's talk about how do you preserve an author's voice while editing their work? Like we've done it. I know people are maybe a little bit apprehensive about, you know, hiring an editor. They're going to change my whole story. That's not what I want to say, but like, how do you, how do you preserve that?

SPEAKER_00:

It's yeah. It's I love this question again, because I think probably every, every editor me included would say that was, you know, absolutely essential, but it is also really hard not to let your own voice sneak in, especially if you're also a writer. So I think the best way to preserve the editor's voice is to make sure you get to know that voice before you begin. So again, if it's something short, like the novella I mentioned, you could read the whole thing before you make any comments and just immerse yourself in that work. or if it's longer, read a few chapters before you go in and start making edits. So yeah, it's something you have to be constantly aware of, I think. But the best way is just to try and immerse yourself and block out your own kind of aesthetic preferences. Very

SPEAKER_02:

good. That has to be hard. I just don't know if I could ever be like an editor. You're just like, you guys are so patient and able to do that and tune it all out. I don't know if I could do that, but that's great. I'm sure you could. What about a style guide? Now, I know you're based in Madrid. Maybe I know like European editors may work a little bit different if you're working with writers that are, you know, across the pond, we say, or like, versus like an author in the US, but like, do you have a specific style guide that you follow? Like whether it's the Chicago manual style, AP style, any, like what, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, my, I've always used just personally as a frame of reference to the MLA system, but obviously the best way to, to check is to check with the author what, either what they're using or what they're doing sort of naturally so whatever is closest to how they kind of write naturally if that makes sense like um just recently I was working on two manuscripts and one was from a US author and they were using the serial comma and one was from a European author and they weren't using the serial comma so I was like okay I have to get my head you know like in this system or in that system so as a as a frame of reference for myself I like MLA but um Yes, just a bit like the voice thing, really. You have to get into the manuscript and see what's the best system to fit, basically.

SPEAKER_01:

Very nice.

SPEAKER_00:

Because none of them are wrong or right. It's just whichever one you want to use and keep using consistently. That's the kind of, like we mentioned with copyediting, that's the purpose of it, to keep it all consistent. Very good.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. And then how do you navigate through edits that are, they're technically they're correct, but they may not fit the author's tone. Like, how do you know this?

SPEAKER_00:

How do I know if it's correct or how do I know which way to go? Both, I guess. Yeah. Well, again, maybe because I am also a writer, I would probably naturally err on the side of tone versus correctness, which might be controversial as an editor, I don't know. But that would be something I would highlight to the author via a margin comment. So something along the lines of, you know, I really like what you've done here. It's not, you know, strictly speaking correct this is the way you would say it correctly kind of you know your call really um because again like there are authors that that will want grammatical accuracy over everything else you know that's why they've hired you but then there are also authors that that want uh well the opposite they want their their voice and their tone to come to come over more strongly. So one of the authors I've been working with recently, she, in the nicest possible way, we have this great back and forth, but she always pushes back, like, I know what you're saying. I know you're right, but it doesn't feel right for my writing. And I'm like, great. You do whatever you feel is best, you know? So maybe it's a little bit like batting the ball back over, but I would give the author the options and then say, you know, your final call, basically, if you want to be, you know, very very accurate do it this way if you want to be if you want to be you do it

SPEAKER_02:

this way that is super important and you just like brought up another like really really good point um we're you know I'm a writer you're a writer we have editors but ultimately like we we have the final say obviously like you know you're you're an editor and you're making these suggestions based on your you know knowledge your expertise and but we don't have to necessarily do everything that you're asking us to do, right? Like that's kind of the whole point, you know, you're making the suggestions, trying to make it, you know, help make the writer's, you know, voice really come through, but ultimately we can make that final decision, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah, absolutely, 100%. And I'm glad you brought that up because I usually lead with that actually. You know, like we're here to advise, we're here to, you know, bounce ideas off, but Absolutely. The author has the last word every time. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. All right. We've made it to the Inkstarter lightning round. I am so excited for this. We're going to do like three, no, four quick questions that I have for you. And so let's go. All right. So what's your favorite editing tool or software?

SPEAKER_00:

I might have mentioned earlier, I'm very analog, so I don't use any software, just word, track changes, margin comments. I have dabbled with, I think someone gave me a free trial to Scrivener and I was like, yeah, it's cool, but I can just do this by doing my old school, putting the pages on the floor. So that's just me.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I'm the same way. I print everything out. I feel bad for the trees, but I have to like physically hold it and do it. So that's good. What's one grammar myth you wish would just disappear?

SPEAKER_00:

The one about, I'm not sure the correct name of it is, but starting a sentence with, and, but, though, sorry, not though, and, but, so, or because that, that thing, it's just, no, just start the sentence. how you want to start it. Sorry if that's controversial, but yeah, just get rid of that one. Because sometimes it can change the whole tone of the paragraph. So start your sentence however you like. I

SPEAKER_02:

love it. All right. While you're editing, coffee, tea or wine, which one are you drinking when you're editing?

SPEAKER_00:

Because I'm in Madrid, it gets very hot in the summer. So it depends. And very cold in the winter, actually. So it depends on the season. Always, always, always start the morning with coffee. And I have to have that, like, you know, as soon as I wake up. So always coffee. And then throughout the day, it sounds really... you know, not at all shocking, but my new addiction is ginger tea.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

But then if it's really hot, I might have fizzy water. So yeah. And then wine for the evening, but after do the working days then.

SPEAKER_02:

Totally get it. All right. And my last one, em dashes. All right. Is this writer's fashion faux pas or is this totally on trend that we're using the em dashes?

SPEAKER_00:

Is this the editing version of the mullet? For

SPEAKER_01:

sure.

SPEAKER_00:

This is, you know, you kind of, this is a very controversial question. So I like them in my own writing anyway, but I think that's probably because I'm quite, possibly a little bit meandering like I go off in different directions and they're they're quite helpful if you want to just take something off in a different direction momentarily and I think maybe it imitates more using an em dash is helpful for imitating how we speak and and yeah how we kind of interact more in a more natural setting but I do understand that it's become kind of a catch-all for lots of other different punctuation that we have invented for that specific reason. So it's kind of taking the place of lots of other punctuation. So yeah. Yeah, I'm going to stay on the fence because I don't want to keep males. I love it. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

my gosh. All

SPEAKER_01:

right, Jane,

SPEAKER_02:

you've made it through the Grand Inquisition. And now it is time. You have prepared five must-have tips for us authors. I can't wait to hear yours. So give it to me. What are your five must-have tips?

SPEAKER_03:

Yay.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm very excited to share these. So I put them in order of how I do them. But as we just mentioned earlier, it's up to the author, you know, however it feels natural to you, the author's writing process. But this is the way I would do it. So number one, make your own style guide. So a little bit like your question previously about MLA and Chicago and all those things. So every publishing house will have an in-house style guide for consistency and professionalism. And I say, there's no reason why we can't have, you know, the same. So yeah, Keep things consistent and smooth in your manuscript. Think about are you going to use o'clock or are you going to use a.m., p.m.? If you're using a.m., p.m., are you going to use a, you know, what is it in American English, period, m, period, or learned or learnt, serial comma, no serial comma, single speech marks, double speech marks, that kind of thing. So It's good if you want to choose a system to follow as well, but also I think it's handy to make some notes, you know, to follow as you're going through. So the main things that might come up so that you can say, oh, hang on. Yeah, am I using Learned? Can't remember. Where's my style guide? That kind of thing. So that just, you know, it might seem... picky I don't know but it just makes the manuscript and the writing a lot smoother and more and more professional in the same way that um would happen within a you know a big five or something like that publishing house so number one make your own style guide uh number two this is one that I think is fun which is to scan for inactive verbs because we all we all do it So to make your writing more dynamic and compelling on that line level that we talked about, scan for inactive verbs and think about how you can replace them. You don't always have to replace them. I think just we all have a tendency to use think, feel, look, sound, believe, because that's probably because that's how we speak. So sometimes it's necessary and good to use those, but other times, you know, you can swap them out and have a think about how you can rewrite them in a more kind of interesting way. So I made some not very brilliant examples here. So instead of, for example, she thought about what he said and felt sad every time she did you could say something like their conversation echoed in her head over the next few days and she became more discouraged each time she remembered his words you know that kind of you know I love that thank you so you take out thought said feel and you just restructure that sentence or also with feelings like instead of saying a character felt you know and then you add the emotion you can often rewrite those so like I instead of I felt angry you could say the anger turned my face a blotchy red my hands began to tremble that was my other example so this is why I think it's fun because you can literally do a search in word you know like for for the specific words so like think feel etc and then you can go and find them each time and just have some fun, like seeing how you can rewrite those. So yeah, scan for inactive verbs and rewrite if you want to. And kind of related to that one, my third one is where can you add texture? So yeah, a little bit like number two, if you have... I don't know, this is, again, not the best example, but if, say, the story is set by the seaside or there's a kind of a theme of water, where can you just subtly thread that through on a line level to reinforce that, you know, even subconsciously in the reader? So this, again, is just my, like, kind of not the most overworked examples, but instead of she cried, you could have her tears surging and crashing again. and like waves or, you know, or implying that it's like waves. So, you know, just go through and add those little extra bits of texture in the semantic fields. I think that's another fun one personally. And number four is read aloud. And it's kind of obvious, but absolutely essential because a bit like the same as printing out and editing, it's amazing, as I'm sure you know, how different the experience of your writing is when you read it aloud. And that one is particularly good for checking your punctuation as well, because you'll stumble over anything that's in the wrong place. If it's like a really long document, sometimes for my own writing, I'll get word to read it to me. I don't know if you've ever used that automatic voice in Word. I've just heard about that, but I haven't used it yet. Sometimes I do both because the good thing about the kind of automatic voice is that it has no emotion whatsoever and it has no investment in your writing. So you hear it really dispassionately and that's kind of oddly helpful because you can see where the voice stumbles or, yeah, I don't know, it kind of gives you that distant eyes thing, but distant ears.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

uh so yeah always read aloud either yourself or or word and then the fifth one which is probably the most important is to pace yourself because um it's just you know if you think about those are my five tips or four tips for for line editing and then you think about all the other tips for development editing and proofing like it it gets overwhelming so pace yourself my As a professional editor, my absolute maximum for a line level is 30 pages a day. And that's like 1.5 or double spaced in Word because your brain just stops seeing things in the end. So you really do need to give yourself time and space for the process. And the other thing is, if not, you just end up rushing it to get over with. So when you're in the writing process, it's good to schedule that in. So like, I don't know, just say to yourself, right, you know, I'm going to finish editing. I'm going to finish writing by July. And then I'm going to give myself a whole month. And I'm going to do this amount of pages a day or however long it might take. So slice the elephant, basically.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. I love it. Those are fabulous tips. I am definitely going to be taking those into my own writing because some of them I haven't used. I love the reading with the word for sure and the style. I love that too. That's something I don't think I even considered. Just think about what style you want to use and all that. This has been one of the funnest conversations. It's been so much fun. I have really enjoyed our time together. I thank you so much. for joining us today on the show and having fun with me and sharing this process of copy editing and giving us your five must-have tips. So if you're interested in learning more about Jane Marshall's editing services or check out her latest release because she has a brand new book herself coming out, check the show notes for her website, her Substack publication, and places you can purchase her books. Thank you for listening to this episode of Traditionally Self-Published. If this And be sure to check the first episode where I share a bit about how this all came to be and why building a helpful community is so important. Until next time, be bold, write smart, and keep turning those pages.