Writing a Killer Psychological Thriller with Nicole Annbury

In this episode, I’m joined by my good friend and thriller author Nicole Annbury to talk about what it really takes to write a psychological thriller that kills. (all puns intended!) We take a deep dive into the craft behind her newest novel, The Signature Line, and explore why the psychology is the story.

This is a must-listen for writers interested in psychological thriller writing, and character-driven storytelling, as well as readers who love dark, emotionally layered thrillers.

We also discuss:

• Her latest release, The Signature Line (out February 13th, 2026)
• How to build psychological tension through character
• Plotting vs. pantsing (and plantsing!) 
• Crafting endings that stay with the reader
• Writing through hard seasons and pacing creativity
• The power of writing community and support

About the book:

The Signature Line  is a psychological thriller about Dr. Carmella Carey, a feminist therapist who runs a controversial program called "Year of Self" while hiding dark secrets. When she promotes the program on TV, it angers Dylan Foster, a men's rights advocate seeking his ex-girlfriend who joined Dr. Carey's program. As Dylan's threats escalate and a serial killer begins targeting the women in the program, both characters find themselves on a collision course. This page-turning thriller examines the ultimate price of control and the dangerous consequences when ideology turns deadly.

About Nicole: 

Nicole Annbury is a writer of dark fiction in the thriller, psychological suspense, and mystery genres. She currently lives in Indiana with her husband and three cats. When she's not writing, she enjoys nature walks, true crime documentaries, reality TV viewing and going on drives with her husband. 

For more information about upcoming releases, go to her website: nicoleannbury.com

Have a publishing question? Email me at mica@micamerrillrice.com 

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"Traditionally Self-Published" theme music is written by Landon Bailey and performed and produced by LNDÖ

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

What's up, plot twisters, and a warm welcome to my page turners, the intrigued readers and listeners who are just stepping into the story. Whatever title you fancy today, I am so happy you're here with me. You're listening to Traditionally Self-Published, where we unravel the chaos of self-publishing and help you write your own success story like a pro. I'm your host, Mika Merrill Rice, author with a passion for learning and sharing the love. I'm bringing you real talk with publishing pros and authors just like me who flipped the script and built thriving author careers on their own terms and are doing it like a pro. Whether you're a first-time author or you're a seasoned pro, you're right where you need to be. So let's be bold, write smart, and learn how to keep readers turning the pages. I am so excited to share today's guest with everyone. Joining me is Thriller Author and friend Nicole Anberry. She's the author of The Final Sentence and she's about to release her next standalone psychological thriller, The Signature Line. If you're wondering what it takes to ensure your story has the thrills that kill over the plots that fall flat, then this episode is for you. Today we're going to talk about her journey to becoming an author, her newest release, the signature line, finding community with the writing group Quill and Cup, navigating her health challenges and writing, and what's up her sleeve. And then we're going to conclude with the Ink Starter Lightning Round and Nicole's five best tips for authors. Thank you, Mika. It's good to be here. Alright, so today we're going to talk about a few things, but we're going to um we're going to dive in about your journey. We are going to talk about the signature line, which is releasing February 13th. Very exciting. And we're going to talk about what makes a great psychological thriller. We're going to talk about the impact of community on your writing career. And then, you know, some of your like personal story with your health challenges. Because we know that you've had some health challenges and how that kind of got you where you are today. And I can't wait to dive into all of this with you. All right. Let's get started. So tell me, Nicole, how did you first get into writing? Was there like a moment where you're like, all right, I am gonna do this?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, I, you know, I heard my mom always wanted to be a writer. So it was always kind of like in my DNA, my blood. Um, but I attempted my first like short story when I was probably 10. And it ended up being more horror. And so, um, but then I took some creative writing and and you know, in school, but yeah, and I attempted on the, you know, every now and again to write a big novel, but nothing until I joined Quilling Cup did I, you know, actually finish my first novel.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

That's great. I love that story. And so that kind of leads into the next one I have for you. So you said at 10 years old you wrote a story and it kind of turned into a little bit more horror. So what pulls you towards that though? You know, there's like a million, you know, um the genres out there. I know a lot of kids my age, I think at that time were probably reading like Babysitter's Club, and I wasn't, and neither probably were you.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So I remember somehow I got a copy of Anneyville Horror and I was reading it by Moonlight. Um I I don't know. I just uh I've always been fascinated by psychology, and I wasn't watching true crime so much that at that age, but you know, obviously now I am so fascinated by true crime documentaries and just getting into that criminal mind that it just really influences uh, you know, the genre that I enjoy, thrillers and suspense.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Do you feel that that Amityville horror was the story that kind of pulled you in and made you fall in love with the suspense? Or do you feel like it maybe was like another story where you read like maybe you read Amityville horror first and then followed up by something else, and you're like, all right, I'm in love. There's no other genre that I I like as much as I like this one.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

You know, that that story was so scary to me and it kept me up at night. I did read like Tales of the Fourth Grade, nothing, and things like that too. So it was normal. But um, yeah, that story just really um the the scariness of it just really drew me in. So I I don't know that there was one particular book that did it, but uh probably just more as I got older, getting into documentaries and just like understanding the human mind brought me closer to like interested into like true crime uh books in general, uh, but just that genre.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, I know it's like it's like a multitude of different books, I think, for me as well, like that just kind of led into it. So you wrote your first book, you did the final sentence that released last year. What made you decide to self-publish? Like, what was the journey for a final sentence for those that are not aware?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Well, when I first wrote it, I was on the path of, you know, you write the book, you query it, you get the agent, you get the deal, you know. Um, but that path didn't work out for me. Um, I queried for a couple of years and got some, you know, great feedback. And I actually rewrote my entire uh manuscript, which uh took out a lot of different um tropes and added a brand new character. And I queried that for a little bit. And I I've I did know about self-publishing, but I didn't have uh the the path that I had in my mind was traditional, to be honest, when I first started. But the more I queried, the more I became kind of disillusioned with that. And the algorithm of my social media really did its job in putting successful self-published authors in my feed. And um, it really opened my eyes. So I would say I heard somebody say uh rejection is just redirection, and that's just kind of what happened for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I love that quote. Rejection is just redirection. I haven't heard that one, but I do love that. And I agree. It's uh rejection is not closing the door, it's opening up opportunities. We just up to us to actually see those. So now that you've self-published, though, do you feel any regret?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

No, no regrets. Um, I, you know, it's I would say that there's so much to learn. And as a self-published author, um, I mean, unless you have like a an assistant, it is a business and you are doing it all on your own. And there is a lot of work. And I would say just, you know, learn everything you can and um, you know, budget. That might that might be my one regret, you know, uh not spending so much money on things. But you know, you just I think sometimes you just don't know what's gonna work. And sometimes you throw it against the wall and see if it'll stick. And the next book, you know, maybe you'll try some a new approach and see if that works better. But uh, you know, for the most part, it's been pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to start somewhere, right? So you you learn some things with the final sentence. Maybe you learn some more with the signature line, which is what we're gonna talk about right now. So tell me about the signature line. Tell me what it's about without giving it away.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Okay, so it centers around Dr. Carmela Carey, who is by trade, she's a psychologist, but uh she she kind of uh leans into the self-help world and spins it on its head uh by creating this program called The Year of Self, which is full of rules, uh very strict rules, and women are really enamored by her. They've manifested a program like hers. And on the surface, it does appear to be a program that, you know, it sounds great, but once they join, they sign their the contract, the signature line. For some women, the only way out is through death. And uh when she goes on TV to promote this program, it draws the ire of the Dylan uh Foster, who is a men's rights advocate. Someone said part-time men's rights advocate, part-time loser, who is desperate to find his ex-girlfriend who was an early follower of Dr. Carey's. And the more fame she gets, the angrier he becomes. And he goes after Dr. Carey and the members of her program.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, it was a fun, fun read. I had a chance to read a little bit, of course, when I met you last summer, like the first couple of chapters. And then I, of course, been finished it up uh recently. And I think what I love most about the way you develop your characters is like, you know, just the way you describe them and really just like getting us into their mindset. Um, so but you know, there's like a balance, you know, you're trying because it's a psychological thriller, we the reader have to understand sort of where they're coming from, what is driving them to be the way they are, you know, what's driving Dylan to do you to be so angry and what Dr. Carrie, she's like, she's a trip. She's got she's like multifaceted. So how do you balance that, you know, the tension, the pacing, and also building that psychology without like, you know, just keeping that balance between the three of them?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Well, I don't know that I hear this recommendation much. I never heard when I read craft books, they don't, but I write the characters separately, in that Dr. Carey was such a strong uh muse, if you will, that came through that I pretty much wrote all of her parts first. And then I layered it back with more Dylan. Um, so her character was really strong for me. She um was around when I was still writing the final sentence. So she was really ready to get on the page. And she's I have never met her, but she was she reminded me a lot of a former boss. So it was much really easy to pull, tap into that that um character. Um, but yeah, she she was definitely one that I needed to write first. And then Dylan's character needed to come next.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I love it. I think that um, I mean, obviously, like life experiences can influence the way that we write, but it it definitely helps, you know, meeting different personalities through our lifetime because you can take like this one little seed, maybe like a meeting or the way somebody responded to you and then take it to the next level and make it this like incredible Dr. Carmela Carey, and you know. So with the book, and I know you wrote, you know, her character out first, but did you have like a North Star, like you had a twist in mind that you kind of saw ahead of time and you were writing towards that, or do you just kind of let that emerge naturally?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

What ends up happening to her at the end was always in mind, but the final, final chapters didn't come to me until I wrote the first few drafts. Um, and that's was kind of how it happened with my first book, too. Kind of like just figuring it out as I go as a pantzer. But yeah, I I knew that scene of what led up to her to the ending of the book was gonna happen. The subsequent chapters thereafter uh came to me afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

It's good that you call that out. You know, the there are differences. Like obviously there's the plotters, there's the pancers, and then there's me like a planter. And I don't think there's any one right way to do it. It's just the way it is. And even me as a planter, I write literally everything out, you know, even if it's just like a raw sketch. And then sometimes I get even more detailed. And even when I go back and write it, it still comes out different. You know, you still sort of have like, I don't know, I guess, you know, it's just normal for me too to have like sort of an idea of the North Star, but then getting there might look a little bit different than what I had initially thought.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

It would be so much easier if I had a plotted out uh plan, but these characters just do what they want to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah. No, and I'm here to tell you, no, it doesn't. You write it all down and you're like, why am I not following my formula that I built for myself? It doesn't work that way. They tell you what to do.

unknown 13:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

So what do you find harder? Do you find plotting the mystery a little bit harder, especially with us? Because we have to, you know, we usually include like a big twist. Um, so do you find that is a little bit harder, or do you find it's harder to get into the character's head?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Getting into the character's head is pretty not, I wouldn't say easy, but that's the fun part for me. Because I mean, most of my characters are pretty extreme. And so they're um really uh unique characters, I'll say. And so getting into their head almost like a an actor would uh is really fun. Um, so that part uh I would say is much easier for me than to figure out what kind of big plot twist is gonna, you know, make readers drop their jaws, you know, that that's probably harder for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, I think well, and I think it's getting increasingly harder because there's so many books out there with with great plot twists. And so trying to come up with the next best thing where, you know, you you think a reader is not gonna get it, I I think that is also pretty difficult. It's like, all right, how can I do this the same, but also in a different way?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yes. And not every book has a major plot twist. It's the the ride is is the book, but uh, you know, most thriller readers or many want that big twist. So we have to try to find it for them.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah. No, and you're right, too. I think that that might be a little bit of a misconception for a lot of people. Not everybody needs that, but you you do every book I think has like a little bit of a twist or at least a build-up too, but it's not necessary for a thriller in any way. You can, you know, make it a character-driven story. Um, you can make it character-driven and have a twist, which as I think, you know, what I felt coming through with the signature line, it was a little bit of both. It's the twist, it's the character, you know, buildup that did it for me. And I think either way works, you know. Let's talk about how the two of you, the two of us met. Yes. All right, so I was just a wee little writer, just feels like forever ago, but really it's like, I don't know, eight months ago, I put out a list little SOS, please somebody come to my aid. And so despite the fact that we kill people on paper all day long, and we love our murder in the morning club, you know, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have found the Quill and Cup. And you've been a member of Quill and Cup, the writing group, for some time now. So, you know, my word of the year this year, 2026 is community. It's all about the importance of it as a writer because I feel that it is, but it's also never too late to find that. So, you know, for you with the Quill and Cup, did you find them before you started crafting the novels? Or did you, you know, did you find them and say, all right, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna do this novel, but I need a group of writers behind me. Like how did that, how did that work for you?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Well, I got the idea of the final sentence when I moved to Indiana and I started jotting notes. It's got the choke mask killer and the just the little details. That's as much plotting as I did. And I looked for a local writing group, and but this was right at and at the end of COVID, and so people weren't meeting in in, you know, together. And so I looked online and that's when I found Quill and Cup. And so I found them right when I was in the jotting phase, in the figuring it out phase. And so it was perfect because they were pretty new too. And so um, we were all kind of just figuring out our writing paths together, which was great. And um, so I like to say when I joined, it was from jotted notes to a full manuscript in in the four years. Uh, well, now it's almost five years uh that I've been there.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Mm-hmm. That didn't take you that long. I mean, I get to sit with you in the mornings, no makeup, well, at least me anyway. You always look fabulous. But um, but you, you know, you you cranking them out. Like you, you know, I've I'm already into your next one that you're gonna release later this year, um, after the signature line. You're already working working on book four. Do you feel that like the writing alongside us, you know, other writers, and even virtually, because that's all we do right now, right? Writing aside, you know, a group of others, do you feel like that kind of helps with that creative experience and helps drive that momentum for you?

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Definitely, because for one, it gives you like accountability that I'm gonna show up and I know Mika's gonna be there and other people are gonna be there. And so, you know, you know you're not gonna be alone. Um, but also you see like the success from others and especially self-published authors where we can publish, you know, whenever we want. And so that just kind of opens the you know field for us to just write as much as we want or not. Um, it's up to us. And um, I'm just really having fun with it. But yeah, being in the the group is great because you learn so much and there's so many resources. And still almost, you know, a year into self-publishing, I'm learning new things, new resources I didn't know about. And uh being in the group definitely makes a difference because it's just right there. You learn it on what we call prickle, which is what we call our writing time together. And it's amazing, whereas otherwise you'd be searching the web to find these, this, you know, gold of information.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

I agree. I've learned a lot even in the short time that I've been there. And this is what I tell new writers who ask, like, how do you get started? Because I started without a writing group and I don't, I did not have that momentum. Um and since starting, I found it. And I I don't really think it matters which writing group that you get into, as long as you find one that is your vibe. I think that you will find that the writing becomes fun and enjoyable and you're with people who are in it, you know, alongside you in whatever stage that you're in. Um, and I think that just kind of fuels you to like, all right, you know, like I'm not alone in this, I can keep doing this. But what would you say to the writers who feel like, you know, they have to do this all alone?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

I mean, if they want, if they work better alone, great for them. But if they want to find a community, there are plenty of writing groups. And I would say try one out. And it's been such a benefit for me. You know, I think probably most writers are introverts by nature, and you know, it's it's helpful to be around other creatives, but also it's really good practice for when you're when you have to leave your writing cave and meet readers, uh, because you know, you you test out your pitch and you, you know, test out does this, you know, book sound like something you would read or, you know, just things like that. And it just really helps you kind of come out of your shell if you're an introvert. But yeah, I I definitely don't know that I'd be the same writer otherwise. Same for me.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Uh, community is everything. Um, and it's definitely great when you're facing challenges. I think that's the other part of being part of a writing group is not just the writing challenges, but just life in general, being too tired, being overwhelmed, you know, the pressures of social media, the pressures to meet. We put deadlines on for ourselves, just like any traditional publisher would, at least, you know, uh some of us do. But for you, you also are dealing with a health challenge. You've been open about navigating the spoonie life. So, how do you feel like that's shaped your relationship with writing?

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Well, my I guess fourth project, if you will, is really a personal project that focuses uh around a spoonie. And so uh it's very important to me. It's a passion project, and I really feel like um there needs to be more books out there with a spoonie lead. And so uh that's very important for me to get that out there. But um yeah, it it can be very challenging to write as a spoonie because not every day you feel like sitting at this, you know, chair or or even writing from the couch. Um or you know, it it might just be a bed day, you know. But I'm really good at knowing when I need to rest and saying no, uh, this is not a good day to show up at the office, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah, that's good. That's good that you listen to your intuition. And I I think that, you know, like even even without the health challenges and this, I know that's this is something that Anya teaches in the Quill and Cup. Like you, you have to rest is not an option. It is something non-negotiable. Yes, non-negotiable. That's right. Because you need it. You need it whether you feel like you're okay or you're not okay. You have to take that rest. It is so necessary. Otherwise, this goes from being fun to, I think, becoming a job that you dread going to. Yes. What about like writing just in general? Do you find it like therapeutic for you? Uh, do you find it as like a refuge for any of those difficult periods that you're you're going through?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, well, there was a time where I remember I was so sick I couldn't write for like three weeks and I missed it, like craved it. Um, so I know it's really good, not just, you know, it's mentally great for me, but um, I just it's part of like my muscle memory routine to show up every morning and be here. It's uh I'm still working in that exercise part of that uh into my daily life, but um yeah, it just feels like I don't know what it's like get my coffee right. You know, it's just part of my daily uh life. And so I can't imagine not having this creative outlet.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah. Well, when you figure out the exercise part, please do let me know because I haven't figured that part out yet. Um, but like you, I try to like just make it part of the routine, you know. It's just like it becomes second nature, I think, eventually, just like any other habit, as long as you start small. But what have the experiences with your health and through changes and you've moved a lot um recently too? Like, what have you what has that kind of taught you about just pacing yourself so that you can continue to be creative?

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, that pacing is is tough because you know, even though I'm a spoonie, I still want the same goals. And so, but you know, I have to listen to my body, and it's like if I push myself too much one day or I'm overly stressed about making sure I get the right KDP files up or you know, whatever it is, um, I'm gonna be paying for it. So I definitely need to um monitor how much I do each day, and um it kind of comes in with make making sure I rest. Um, so I'm really pretty good at pacing myself so I don't overdo it.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

That's taken me years to get there.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, it's definitely not an overnight thing for sure. All right, my friend, we have made it to the lightning round. And I am super excited about this because what folks don't know about me and Nicole is like we tend to meet up and it's like a normal conversation to be like, Hi, how are your cats doing? Okay, great. How's the family doing? By the way, can you help me through this murder scene? You know, does it make sense if I stab them in the neck, or do you know, like, could it be in the belly or whatever? Like, these are normal conversations for you and I, I think, like just talking through some of these things. But my first question to you, and you're just gonna give me the first thing that comes to mind, is what is the most unhinged thing in your search history right now that could possibly put you on a watch list?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Oh goodness. Um, I mean, all of the serial killers I've looked up, but the one that in it's back to the signature line. I have a manifesto from a killer that's downloaded in my files right now. And it was uh, you know, research for Dylan. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

All in the name of the story, of course.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Oh my gosh. All right. So speaking of your book, so you've got the final sentence, you've got the signature line, you've got the third manuscript you're working on that's going to be published later this year, and the fourth one that you're working working on. So, out of all of those, if you were trapped on an island, Nicole, which character from your own stories would you team up with to survive?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yes, I would have to say, and this may sound so strange, but I would have to say Dr. Carrie. And I would say that because nobody is sh if anybody's gonna get off of that island, it's going to be her. Yeah, because she will not go down like that. Um, she would use every resource that she could come up with to figure it out. So, and I would be right behind her, following her uh onto that boat.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

That is so funny. Yes, she does not take no for an answer. It is Dr. Carrie's way or it is no way. Exactly. All right. When you're writing a kill scene, do you listen to music or do you go with absolute eerie silence?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

I'm a serial killer, maybe. I I need silence. I cannot stand any music. Actually, if I could make my keyboard quiet, I would. I want no nothing. I want peace and quiet.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

All right.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

So I can't.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Oh my gosh. All right, so country music, classical music, totally out of the question. We are focused, and you're getting your your kill scenes just right. Yes. I love it. All right. What's your favorite thriller trope?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

I mean, don't we all love a good stalker?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Oh, we love a good stalker. The best. All right, and one word to describe the signature line.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Unhinged was the first word that came to my mind, but yeah, it's unhinged, all right. Yeah. In a very good way. Yeah, these are these despicable was another word that came, you know, they they're very morally not uh great people, but uh hopefully they're people you love to hate.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yes, yes, for sure. All right, so we are gonna conclude now with our five best tips. So at the end of every one of my shows, I always ask my guests for tips, tips for aspiring writers, tips for writers who are already in it that maybe need some new ideas. So, what do you think is one thing every thriller writer should master?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

I think knowing where to get your research, um, you know, like I mentioned earlier, I do a lot of research watching true crime documentaries, and it really helps me understand the killer mind and that genre. And so that's really helpful for me in knowing if it's gonna read as accurate on page, um, because obviously it's true to life.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Very helpful, definitely, to know um a lot, you know, definitely the true crime. I'm a true crime junkie, especially the ID channel. I think they really get into it, okay? But I also love Dateline. Yes. And reading, you know, reading about some of these like past serial killers, because you know, as terrible as it is, they're out there, and some of them are truly, truly heinous. Yes. Um, but that's what helps sort of drive these stories. So what is one common mistake you see new writers make?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I would say trying to make their first draft like the perfect draft. And I did this at first where I was like editing chapter one and two, and then I was like, I've been at this story for you know three months, and I've only had this to show. And so uh, you know, the first draft is really telling yourself the story. So just get the messiness on paper because it's gonna change anyway. So don't worry about making it perfect.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

I agree, and I think that's actually sometimes maybe a little misunderstood that you know, people are perfect the first time out of the gate. Even some of the best writers are still, you know, coming back and editing profusely. I just read like an article on Ernest Hemingway, who relentlessly went back and you know, refined and refined and cut and made it perfect. So it was never perfect on the first try. So I think definitely that's a great piece of advice. Don't ever think your first one is gonna be perfect, it won't be, but that's totally normal. It's you, don't worry about editing on the way, get it out so that it can come out and then go back.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Go back and fix it. Yeah. All right. How do you build tension without over-explaining?

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Oh, that's that's the tough one, right? Like just uh, you know, putting yourself in the scene and making it as much action as possible. Uh, but yeah, that that's hard. I think the first draft too is you're telling it so much, but then when you go back through, you add in all the sensory, you add in, you know, the interiority, and you just really it depends on what you know uh point of view you're in. You you really get into the mind of that character and how it's making them feel. I think that's that's how you really build the tension.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Cutting is definitely a part of that, you know, whole editing process, and it helps with reducing that overexplaining for sure. What about self-doubt? Which I know a lot of us have. I mean, even you know, like I'll read a scene of mine, and I don't know if you do the same, but you're like, all right, that's pretty good. And the next day you're like, why?

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Why did I write this? Yes. Although I I think though, in a week you go back and you read it, and you're like, that's not pretty that's not bad at all. Yeah. So I think it's normal. Like, you know, we're we're our toughest critics, and you know, that's why a bad review can't really hurt us that bad because we've already done it to ourselves, you know. But it's just normal to doubt yourself, and especially as a self-published author, you know, we don't have a lot of overhead uh and people to make it all shiny and pretty and all of that. You know, we're we're paying people to do that for us. But yeah, I think it's just giving ourselves grace that you know, tomorrow we might enjoy what we're writing better than we do today. It's it's normal.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yep, definitely ebbs and flows for sure. And what do you feel is one habit that made the biggest difference in your career?

SPEAKER_01 34:05

I think uh being consistent, showing up, you know, we say showing up at the table, you know, joining the writing group um has made a world of difference. I made it my goal to write at least five times uh a week a week. And you know, maybe and even if it's only an hour, uh, I just made that dedication to get words on paper um until I finished. And so I think just being, you know, persevering through that um has definitely made the difference.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, definitely. Button chair is the biggest yes. That is the biggest, that's the biggest piece of advice right there. If you can't get the writing done, if you don't sit down and try to do it, even if it's one word or a thousand words, or you know, before we started this, we were talking about how you were like in the moment this morning, and I am manifesting that you probably threw another 3,000 words on the paper. And meanwhile, I'm like struggling with one sentence. I'm like, why is it this working? It's just the way it works. And I have good days, we have bad days.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

It's gonna be that sentence is the one they're gonna all highlight. It's the one.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I hope so. If you actually read it though, you'd be like, oh my gosh, what's you just needed a comma. Oh my goodness. All right. Well, Nicole, this has been so much fun. Um, I want to know where can the listeners find you if they want to find you and your books?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

My website, Nicoleanberry.com. Uh, my books are on there. I'm also mostly on Instagram at Nicole Anberry and pretty much any social media site. It's at Nicole Anbery.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Awesome. And then what do you want your readers to be most excited about with the signature line?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

I just hope that, you know, this is my sophomore book. And so I think I'm in an odd way, I'm a little more nervous about this than I was my debut. I just hope they enjoy just the ride that this book will take them on. And they will see if they read the final sentence, they'll see um a nod to Cape Ivy in the signature line. So all of my books will kind of have that little bit of a thread, um, you know, where they're all related. So hopefully they enjoy the book as much as I enjoyed writing it.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Very good. I can't wait um for the listeners to get into it. Again, the signature line of February 13th, it releases. You're definitely going to want to get your hands on this. Lots of complex characters. I am can't wait to hear how people think about uh Dylan and Dr. Carrie, especially. They have a real treat in for them. So thank you again, Nicole. Thank you, Mika. Thank you for listening to this episode of Traditionally Self-Published. If this episode helped you, subscribe, leave a review, and share with your author and reader friends a like. And be sure to check the first episode where I share a bit about how this all came to be and why building a helpful community is so important. Until next time, be bold, write smart, and keep turning those paper.