The BASIC Show

MAIRE BRANDON: 62-Year-Old Natural Bodybuilder | EPISODE 4

• Viktorija Pashuta • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Meet Maire Brandon — an elite 62-year-old natural pro bodybuilder, certified advanced personal trainer, mom of 5, and grandma of 3 who proves age is just a number. With over 40 years of professional fitness experience, Maire is still crushing it as a career athlete and strength & conditioning coach.

In this powerful episode of The BASIC Show, Maire opens up about:
Becoming a Natty Pro BB champion at 44 (still competing at 62!)
Balancing motherhood, grandmotherhood, and an elite fitness lifestyle
Secrets to longevity, natural muscle, and injury-free training after 60
Staying motivated when most people slow down
Real advice from a seasoned strength & conditioning coach you won’t get at a typical gym

Why you’ll love this episode:
Inspiring natural bodybuilding success at 60+
Honest wisdom on building strength, resilience, and fun at any age
How family, fitness, and a positive mindset can fuel each other
A fresh perspective on aging that proves it’s never too late to level up your health

👉 If you enjoy the show, please follow, rate us ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐, and leave a review — it truly helps spread these incredible stories to more listeners.

📲 Follow Maire: @mairemuscles
🎥 Recorded at The Agency Studios: theagencystudio.com
🏠 Interiors by DesignTonik: designtonik.com
💧 Fueled by Drink MyMuse: drinkmymuse.com
🎵 Music by Brandon Dalo: brandondalo.com

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SPEAKER_00:

62-year-olds don't look like that. Weak men would be intimidated by strong women. I was very much being stronger than most of the men around you.

SPEAKER_01:

Look at me. Look at my car. Look at my attitude in life. How many men do you think approach me?

SPEAKER_00:

And I

SPEAKER_01:

think I'm a warrior.

SPEAKER_00:

You just eliminate all the distractions.

SPEAKER_01:

I am anti-government. I always have been. I'm a punk rocker from way back, from the original late 70s. I'm very anti-medicine. I am free Palestine. Two wings, same bird, corrupt. I always felt like a weirdo, but maybe I am just a weirdo. Well, I was a dominatrix. I've had boy toys. I've had, like, I've done it all. All these voices start coming into your head. If you're hiding it, you shouldn't be doing it. They don't want to be in the least bit uncomfortable. So what does it take to be in the circle? Focus. Find out what your gift is and then freely give it away. Head down, hoodie up, headset on, move. Welcome to The Basic Show with Victoria Bush. Even why, like, normally and especially coming into competition, my schedule, everything about everything I do is very rigid. It's non-negotiable. Like, my time. Like, I put out a little video from my hotel room that night just thanking everybody because I was a dick. I mean, you just have to be. So, you know, I... This wouldn't have happened if it wasn't pre-competition. It's only because it was post. And when you came up to me, normally I would be very rigid and go, no, I got to get back to work. I got to get back to my, I'm like, yeah, let's do it. But pre, I was absolute dickhead to even my clients. I'm like, I don't have time for this. You come, you show up. I need to do what you got to do. I don't have the emotional bandwidth. You either, you walk through the door, you do what you're doing or don't walk through the door. And they're just like, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess stars align. And the thing is for me, so I'll just start the story. So for me, I'm very awkward in social situations and I'm very introverted in a sense, if you know I'm a public person. So I want to tell the story to our listeners how actually we met. We actually met like three days ago. I was going to the gym and there was this lady and I've seen her progress like for a year. We never talked. And I would come at different times. I'd come like at 12, at 9 p.m., at 10 p.m. And she would be there so I'm like okay let me actually overcome my shyness and come up to her and say like hey like I want to tell you you actually look great so we were in the Stairmaster and I'm like hey I don't want to bother you I just wanted to let you know I see the progress in your body and she's like I'm actually preparing for this competition for this muscle muscle bodybuilding competition and I said what is that when is it and she's like well it's like once a month or like every three months and said yeah you should come it's in the hotel in Anaheim on Saturday so I put in my calendar and I forgot about it. Then I look at the calendar and I'm like, okay, I have this thing and I need to go with a specific purpose. I need to find the best woman there who I want to interview. I just didn't know what it is. I just knew I have to come back with an amazing woman. So I get to that competition. It was just like people dressed up. I mean, they're all freaking tanned and swimsuits. I'm like, I've never seen anything like this in my life. And as soon as I enter into the hallway where the stage is, you were the first person I saw. And I'm like, damn, who is this woman? Like, you were so fit and you were so animated. And I looked up on the screen. I said, 60 plus. And I'm like, there's no way. And there's a lady sitting next to me. And I said, how do I get, like, can I get backstage to talk to this lady? She's like, no, no, you can't get backstage. You have to wait. So I was waiting. I'm like feeling so awkward. I'm like, okay, okay, please, please say yes. And then You came out and I felt so like, okay, I should really overcome my fear, come and talk to you. And that's how we met three days ago. And you agreed to be on the basic show on the podcast. I'm really, really grateful for you being here. And I'm so thankful that you said yes. So happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01:

It's good to be here. And I would say that is all fate because normally I do not come out. Being a professional ballerina, it is unprofessional to come out in the front where the audience is and the only reason I even did that was because I had a niece that came from Illinois to see me and she was getting ready to leave and I was like I will come out and say goodbye to you but other than that I don't go out where the audience is at all during things like that so that was fate

SPEAKER_00:

I guess it was fate and you shared your Instagram with me and the first thing I saw on the profile of your Instagram you know Mary Brandon 62 five kids three grandkids What did you say, a career athlete?

SPEAKER_01:

A career

SPEAKER_00:

athlete. A career athlete. I was like, oh my goodness, like this is my lucky day. I really, really wanted to talk to you and have you on the show and share your story. So if we go back and in some of your videos you've shared that you had so many different lives and you've done so many disciplines from ballet to triathlon and track and all these things. So why bodybuilding? Why now? Why are you still competing?

SPEAKER_01:

Because I'm still alive. I'm going to do something until I die. So, yeah, I started probably in gymnastics. Well, ballet, actually, first, when I was about 10 years old. And then in high school, got into gymnastics. It was a little more aggressive, and that was kind of more my style. So I left ballet for a while. And then... In high school, from gymnastics, I got into running, just road running. I got married at 16, and my then-husband, he was a runner, so I got into running. And I was a competitive road runner for 20 years. I was a five-minute miler, one of the top 10 fastest women in northern Illinois, southern Wisconsin. I ran through all my pregnancies.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like you're running through such an amazing life so fast. I mean, let's rewind back because, honestly, I have goosebumps. First of all, I mean, millions of questions. Let's go back. So you traveled from Scotland. My mom and dad. Your mom and dad. Our

SPEAKER_01:

family.

SPEAKER_00:

Your family of seven.

SPEAKER_01:

Moved to America.

SPEAKER_00:

Moved to America when you were, what, five? I

SPEAKER_01:

was five.

SPEAKER_00:

Five years old. I mean, what was the feeling? What was the first thing you experienced there? getting to different countries. Do you want to know

SPEAKER_01:

what my first best memory was of coming to America?

SPEAKER_00:

What

SPEAKER_01:

was it? On the airplane, I actually got to have a chocolate bar all to myself. In Scotland, we had to share everything. So when we were on the flight here, and it was a Hershey bar, which I won't touch Hershey's, but... For me as a five-year-old child, getting a whole chocolate bar to myself, that is like probably one of the most positive key memories for me coming to America.

SPEAKER_00:

The American dream right there. Five years old. I got my own. Oh, my God. So tell me a little bit about your childhood, about your life when you were a child.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, my parents chose to move to a place called Rockford, Illinois, because my father's sister had moved there with her husband years before. And so I grew up in the Midwest. Rockford is 60 miles northwest of Chicago, and it's right on the Wisconsin border. It is the second largest city in Illinois. Bible Belt, very small-minded mentality. I never really fit well in there. I always felt like a weirdo, but maybe I am just a weirdo. In a good way, in a good way. Yeah, you know. But I hate winters. I have an autoimmune disorder called Raynaud's, which I wasn't diagnosed with in my 30s and couldn't figure out why I hated winters. Never did winter sports. Never did ice skating. Never did, like, didn't want to be outside. So it's

SPEAKER_00:

a disease that you've...

SPEAKER_01:

It's an autoimmune disorder where it's basically an overreaction. It's like a... The body shuts down. It's like an allergic reaction to certain substances or food. So the body shuts down the blood supply to the extremities when the temperature gets cold. Now, each body determines what cold is. For me, my body determines about 65 degrees as cold. So if it gets below 65, I mean, I've got pictures on my phone because I cold dip or polar plunge. I force my body to deal with this issue. So you can see my hands are white. It drains the blood. And when it's too cold. And like I say, my body decides 65 is cold.

SPEAKER_00:

Your body just said you need to move to California.

SPEAKER_01:

I asked my doctor years ago in my 30s. And I said, so what do I do about this? Is it going to go away? He said, no, it won't go away. He said, most likely... get worse as you get older. He said the best thing you can do is move to a warmer climate.

SPEAKER_00:

Change the climate, yeah. And it seems like you like to test yourself. You love living on the edge, huh?

SPEAKER_01:

I do. There's something about it that... I like putting myself in difficult situations. My oldest son has chastised me from time to time for that, saying, you know, you don't have to struggle through life, Mom. You can sit down and relax and read a book. I don't want to sit down and read a book. And I do love to read. But no, I think I love... I love the challenge. I love overcoming it. I love it. It shows you what metal you're made of. It's like doing 10-day fasts or all of these things that I do that I put myself through. It just shows me what metal I'm actually made of and what I'm capable of. And so the next difficult thing that happens to show up, I know I'm good. I've

SPEAKER_00:

got it. I mean, if you take any woman, they would never think, oh, let me put myself through all this trouble. For what? Are you trying to prove something to

SPEAKER_01:

yourself? No. To be honest, I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. I've thought about it a lot of times. And the best I can come up with, like when I say I've lived many, many lives just in this one existence since Mary Brandon, born in 1963 in Scotland, I'd say I've lived at least five to seven different, completely different people. I could show you pictures. What

SPEAKER_00:

do you mean by that? I've

SPEAKER_01:

reinvented myself, or I've been reinvented that many times. And I... My explanation is that my belief is that we are energies and we regenerate through the eons, through paradigms. And I think I'm a warrior. I just think I'm a warrior through different paradigms, through different time periods. That's just who I am. It's how I'm wired. I

SPEAKER_00:

always ask why, because so many people give up or they just get used to current conditions. What really moves you?

SPEAKER_01:

They resolve things. You have apathy, resolving, comfort. Those aren't words that are in my vocabulary. And I even will take, when someone says, well, I'm comfortable, and I'll just look at them and go, are you comfortable or are you apathetic?

SPEAKER_00:

Do you think it's coming from your childhood where you're used to being not comfortable?

SPEAKER_01:

When

SPEAKER_00:

people

SPEAKER_01:

talk about my discipline, they're like, you're so disciplined. And I'm like, yeah, I call it trauma response. So, I mean, yeah, I think there's some of that mixed in there, but I don't mind it. Do you know what I mean? I don't... Some people would say, oh, you know, your extreme way of living your life and putting yourself in these situations, like, that's trauma. You should probably see a therapist. I've been told that, too. And I'm like, you know what? I don't mind the way I am. And the reason I don't mind it and I actually even enjoy it is because I've found that throughout my life, the... What I hear, the constant refrain that I hear from people around me is that I'm an inspiration. I'm motivational. I help people. People look at me and go, wow, okay, then I think I can do this thing over here that I didn't think I could do. I show people that they're not limited. They're not as limited as they've been taught they are, which goes back to my thing about anti-programming.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell me more about that. What does it mean, anti-programming?

SPEAKER_01:

Television programming.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell me about

SPEAKER_01:

it. There's always a message coming through. Is it like the old you, Bjork? Let me ask you. When you saw that I was 62 and you're like, there's no way because 62-year-olds don't look like that. Why would you even think that? That's programming. You've been programmed by society that when you're a certain age, you can't do these things anymore. You don't look like this. Oh, you start to suffer from these conditions. I don't believe any of it. I say bullshit to all of it.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm living proof. I guess it's more conditioning, right? Like we're conditioned. It's what you believe.

SPEAKER_01:

What you believe. It's all right here. And so because I minimize the external programming and I get to create my own life, which I've done.

SPEAKER_00:

So that means you don't watch any TV, you don't read news,

SPEAKER_01:

I assume. No, it's not news. Everything has an agenda.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Everybody

SPEAKER_01:

has

SPEAKER_00:

an agenda. Exactly. You don't hear anymore what's happening in the world, right? You seem very

SPEAKER_01:

specific. I will say I am free Palestine. Ever since that came out, I've been to multiple protests. I am very much, and it's not even just Palestine. I have families that I have GoFundMe for over there that I'm in contact with. So it's not even just a Palestine. It's humans. Humanity, everyone should have the right to self-determination. Everyone should have the freedom to pursue what it is they want. I don't care where you are, whether you're in the Congo or whether you're... I am anti-government. I always have been. I'm a punk rocker from way back, from the original late 70s. I'm an anarchist. It's like I really believe in the freedom of the people. I believe in personal accountability, personal responsibility And I don't think we should, I don't believe in prescribed morality as far as religion. If you have to have a religion to tell you what is good and right and kind and loving, that you're already a shitheel. So that should come from inside. You should want your fellow man to thrive. If they need help, you should want to help them. So

SPEAKER_00:

how do you think you became this way? Because you live in California, probably the worst state that has so many confinements. Yeah, I think it's something that's

SPEAKER_01:

within my... My being, I do. I come from a family of addicts and a family of alcoholics. So I could, I think, easily say I have addictive behavior. My behavior is extreme. I'm 110%, whether I'm in denial or whether I'm in indulgence. So my fourth child, Samuel, and I, we were just talking about that, corresponding about that two days ago. If I've got a box of chocolates, I'm eating the box of chocolates. I'm not eating one or two. I mean, it's like, oh, There's a box. So I just generally don't have a box of chocolates around.

SPEAKER_00:

But I guess that also helps you to achieve your goals, right? Because you're kind of that extremist that you go all the way in whatever you do, right? Do you think that's the ultimate quality for anyone who wants to achieve any sort of success in any either like sports or arts?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, even if it's not athletic. I think if you look at very successful businessmen, I think they were all in. It's like you pay the price up front. You make those sacrifices. You're sacrificing your time. Like I'm single. I've been single for six years and I've been completely celibate for six years. So I haven't, it's, I don't have time. And people look at me and go, are you kidding me? And I'm like, no, because that's what it takes. In order for me to have achieved what I did, the condition, physical condition, conditioning that I did, 8% body fat. I started at 21%. I had to just, like I said, I had to be a dick. It's like when someone's, hey, Mary, nope, don't have time. I got to go do my cardio. I got 45 minutes to get in. So I think for anyone that is successful to that degree, whether they're an elite athlete, you know, you could take David Goggins and people would say he's nuts. Okay, well, yeah, but look what he's achieved. You know, Steve Jobs, take some of these people and look at them and what they got. They were so driven and they were so... Do

SPEAKER_00:

you think like you contradict yourself when you say you're a dick, which that what society say? I would say you're more determined. I mean, when you're determined and you have your goal, you just eliminate all the distractions. I wouldn't say it's a dick. I feel like maybe you're inside internal guilt saying, you know, oh, I might not be nice to people. Only

SPEAKER_01:

because my job, what my job is, is serving other people. So that's what I do all day is I help other people realize their lack of limits. I help them realize their empowerment. And so when it comes... That's a hard line when I'm trying to achieve a goal and yet most of my time is... poured into other people 10 to 12 hours a day, there comes a place where I have to draw that line and go, this is your time, and this is all you get today, and that's not normally me, and they know that. And I've said to them, I told them before I did this, I'm going to do this competition, I'm going to be an ass. I said, I have to be selfish about a certain amount of time. And it's not even selfish, it's self-interest, and those are two different things. And they understood.

SPEAKER_00:

So for those people that you work with, Is it important, what's more important, the actual physique or the mindset that they should have in order to get to the point where they're trying to get, or both?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it starts with the mindset, but if you have that mindset, you'll get the physique if that's what you want. So anybody can get... Absolutely. That's what I believe. That's why I say I am simply an example of what is humanly possible. It just starts here. And most people, like you said, they give up. They're at a point. It's like, oh, I'm on the downside. I'm going to sit on the couch and watch my show, which is the thing I never understand. I'll say to people like, you don't have a TV. I'm like, no, why would I want to waste my life's moments watching other people pretend to live life's moments? They're not even real. They're faking it. It's all acting. And I'm I'm giving up my life's moments sitting here watching them fake their life's moments. Why would I do that?

SPEAKER_00:

It's interesting you say that because that's what I do. And I feel... No, it's true because I'm obsessed with TV shows. And I feel like the reason... I mean, you made me think the reason I do it because sometimes I want to escape the reality. And you want to get and leave that exciting world and... close the eyes on what's going on around you right now. And sometimes we don't realize probably that it takes another day, one step to make a difference, but you just choose what's comfortable, what's soothing, right? And just leaving that other dream out there and makes you feel good. You know, you watch the TV show about 20 years. It's

SPEAKER_01:

like alcohol. It's like sex. It's like drugs. It helps you escape. I would rather be an active part of changing, be the change you want to see in the world. So I would rather be that person out there doing, like, for instance, I tell people I've never watched pornography and they look at me and I'm like, I've never watched porn. If I've wanted to indulge in that, guess what I do? I just fucking indulge in it. Like, I'm going to live it in my real life. I'm not going to watch other people fake it. Like, that doesn't make sense to

SPEAKER_00:

me. But see, it's so easy to, it's easier said than done. So, How do you even discipline yourself? I can't imagine taking any regular person and say, okay, from tomorrow you're going to be celibate. From tomorrow you're not going to watch TV. It's impossible. I guess it became your lifestyle, right? It's you. But if somebody... What is your advice for somebody who wants to kind of start going that direction, but they don't know what's the first... Baby steps. Everything has to be done in degrees. Burn the TV.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, well, you know, like I say, I raised all my children without a television. We had a TV with a VCR and, you know, VHS tapes.

SPEAKER_00:

I love those, yeah. Be

SPEAKER_01:

kind, rewind. Because I homeschooled all my children. So what does it mean,

SPEAKER_00:

homeschool?

SPEAKER_01:

I taught them at home. They didn't go to school. I taught them at home.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you know all the subjects? I was their

SPEAKER_01:

teacher.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, you were their teacher. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I had a lot of different information, like a lot of different curriculum, not just in books, but also, you know, Jump Start was one of the programs, which is funny because once I moved out here, I had a client who was... one of the designers of these homeschool math programs and engineering programs that I used for my children way back in the 90s in Illinois. And he was one of the designers. And I was like, oh, that's fucking cool. So we had a television, but it didn't I think we got the three basic television stations, but we never watched TV. We would rent maybe VHS and watch specific movies. We exposed our children to just specific things.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you ever have resentment from your children? Oh, yeah. You still live in the society, right? Didn't they feel like, hey, mom, we feel so left out?

SPEAKER_01:

No, because I think you can tell I'm a very... Like I dance professionally and all my children dance with me. We had Nutcracker performances where I was on stage with all five of my children. So my kids were exposed. I worked a job at a place called Gymnastics Academy of Rockford. It was an Olympic class gym. facility and I was the core coach for junior Olympic gymnast plus I was also a dancer and a dance teacher taught hip-hop I taught other homeschoolers gym class we did trampoline tumbling all my kids did martial arts classes tumbling classes gymnastic classes dance classes there's a lot of homeschool things that go on in the Midwest because it was it's been big there for a while so we had homeschool groups my daughter played flute and piccolo we were involved my kids my My son Samuel did football. He did city league football. All of my kids were runners because I was involved in a running group, being a runner, and they would do the kids' fun runs. So there was a lot of socialization. Now, but don't get me wrong. A lot of homeschoolers are not socialized, and they're pretty derelict. I've worked with a lot of them. But that's because in the Bible Belt, those people, their mentality is they don't want their kids to be in the world. So they want to keep them in a bubble. I wasn't like that. So my kids were very socialized. But yes, they still have... We all have resentments with our parents, don't we? Yeah, I bet. So yes, I've heard some of my kids know. Some of my kids are like, I think we had an amazing childhood. We had six and a half acres of land. We had our own garden. Yeah. We had chickens. My kids had a nice storybook childhood. But yes, I was very much... My kids got up in the morning and they had to run their laps and their age around the house before breakfast.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, mini army. G.I. Jane. But how did you find time? I'm working. I can't imagine how one kid, you had five kids. That's what I did. And you homeschooled. And then I worked

SPEAKER_01:

part-time. I did. And you worked part-time. And all my kids went with me because you're talking old school. You're talking Christianity. So my husband didn't babysit. His own children.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah, okay. So you had to stay at home time. When I went to work,

SPEAKER_01:

all my kids went with me. But, like as I told you, I worked at a place called Gymnastics Academy. All my children got to take classes for free. So they were all in classes while I was teaching.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_01:

that was in the afternoon. So basically homeschool. I would get up every morning and go running at 5. And I'd get home from my run 6, 6.30. I'd get everybody up. And then we'd get ready. We started school around 8. They all had to memorize two scriptures out of the Bible every week. My husband was an elder in the church. I was one of the worship team leaders. We were at church three times. Yes, because I sing, and I'm also a classically trained violinist. This is

SPEAKER_00:

incredible. I mean, you're talking about these things. It's like, oh, you know, I was a classically trained violinist. I got married at 16. I know. So tell me, I mean, I have so, so many questions. Like, how did that come about, if you don't mind sharing? I mean... And you said, didn't you say you had a double wedding with your dad and your stepmom on the same day? Yes, we got married together. Was it like an arranged marriage situation? No.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we're Scottish, you know, we're Druids, we're pagans from way back. No, it was not arranged. My, you know, my parents, like we moved here from Scotland and My dad was an alcoholic, came from alcoholic parents. And I think that my parents thought coming here to America would help get my dad away from some of those influences.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_01:

my dad was a pianist and he was a master European degreed baker.

SPEAKER_00:

And you have a joke about that.

SPEAKER_01:

You notice I paused my words, so I said it in the right order, so I didn't say Master Baker. My dad's joke there would be not Master Bader, that's Master Baker. He was an excellent European baker. And

SPEAKER_00:

he was a carpenter. He had a degree in biology. Yes. It's incredible. Food biology. Food biology, right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And he was self-taught pianist, and he played honky-tonk ragtime. Our Scottish parties were just lit. So

SPEAKER_00:

you were exposed in early childhood to different art disciplines, even though you might not have the childhood that you

SPEAKER_01:

dreamed about. I come from a family of musicians. Everyone in our family was a musician. My mother was a great vocalist. That's probably where I learned to sing, her and Freddie Mercury. My oldest brother, Steve, he's still... is alive. He's in Illinois. He plays mostly acoustic guitar. My brother John, who passed away last May, he was probably the foremost musician. He was a recording artist. He played all kinds of different instruments, played in local bands down through the years, contributed a lot to the music scene in Rockford, Illinois and the area. My brother Russell was a drummer and played clarinet. He died about 10 years ago. Terrible drug addict. My sister, Anna Louise, She also played drums, but her life stopped pretty quickly. She was raped at age 11 and started running away from home, so she never really, she kind of just made bad decision after bad decision. She's in Arkansas in a convalescent home. She can't talk or move. That's

SPEAKER_00:

devastating, I'm sorry. And you mentioned that happened when you were about, what, nine years old? I was

SPEAKER_01:

nine,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

But my brother Russell and my brother John, they're both dead now. And so it's just me and my brother Steve. But yeah, I come from a family of musicians. It was just always music and all different types of music.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you think the more you expose your kids to different disciplines, the more talented they would be when they grow up?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think that we as human beings... I think that creativity is what should be nurtured first and foremost. I'm not a big fan, obviously, of homeschooling. I'm not a big fan of that rigid, stringent education. Sit in a desk and learn these things by rote. And my son Gabriel, he's my oldest son, my second child, he tested... at the 99th percentile when he was five years old on the SATs because I always had my kids tested. I was like, oh, this kid's going to be a genius. He was horribly dyslexic. He couldn't learn any black letters on a white page. He couldn't retain any of that knowledge because he was a creative mind. It just was how he learned. So I got information from the Dyslexia Foundation, the Orton Dyslexia Foundation out on the East Coast when he was young. Got books on it to learn how he would how it would be best to teach him because he wasn't going to sit and learn out of a book like traditional education. And so Gabriel, very artistic. All my kids are very artistic, and I think all humans are. I think that they try to get crammed into a pattern too soon in life. And I think... Society is starting to realize that. It's like, this is not the best way for us to raise good human beings. I think they're coming around to that.

SPEAKER_00:

So what is the best way to raise human beings in your mind? I

SPEAKER_01:

think freedom, the freedom for them to be creative. Let them climb on logs and fall off and break an arm. I mean, it's like, you know...

SPEAKER_00:

Do you believe the children need to be exposed to different things? Absolutely. Because I hated playing piano. I mean, I was exposed to it, but I hated it. I was like, I don't think it's my thing. So for children, do you think...

SPEAKER_01:

But do you think you benefited somewhat from

SPEAKER_00:

it? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

There you go. Oh, yeah, absolutely. There you go.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's the bottom line. As being a ballet teacher, I would have parents that would have their little girls in my ballet class, and their daughters, some of the girls just hated it. And some of them, they were just uncoordinated as shit, you know? And I would say, you know, hey, little Susie just hates ballet. You know, but I always wanted to be a ballerina. I'm like, that was your dream. I think you should let little Susie go play some soccer now. It's like, you know, I think the exposure is good, and there's certain activities... Obviously, ballet is one of them. Gymnastics is another. But ballet is fine motor. Gymnastics is gross motor. I think gymnastics is more beneficial when you're younger. But it gives you a sense of your living organism and how it moves through time and space. And I think that to gain a sense of that at a young age is always highly beneficial. I don't think that you have to stay in it, but I think learning certain disciplines and piano, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

The I hand chord, the dexterity. So ballet is, in my mind, it's opposite from bodybuilding. How did you face, did you have any change in perception of femininity going from like the graceful ballerina to lifting weights and probably being stronger than most of the men around you? How did your perception of femininity and masculinity change when you started doing bodybuilding?

SPEAKER_01:

I've always been a tomboy. I've always had a lot of masculine qualities about me. I'm an Aries. I'm a fire sign. I'm the original. I'm number one. I'm an Aries sun. I'm an Aries moon. I'm an Aries mercury. I'm just a very aggressive individual to start with. And I think as a child, I wasn't. And I think that's just because I had... I mean, fears and traumas and just certain things you grow up with. And having three brothers that were always picking on me, lovingly, mind you. But I think I learned to fend for myself. So I think I've always been. I've never been that. I was not that little girl that liked to play with dolls or Barbies. I wanted to go climb trees and jump. off of garage roofs and... I

SPEAKER_00:

want to know about the pet mice.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my pet mice. Jim Jim and Socrates were my two pet mice. So tell me, I really wanted to know more about that. Little white mice, yes, and I've had atypical pets also. Like I had, when my kids were growing up, we had five ferrets, we had a hedgehog, we had snakes, Kirtland water snakes, red-bellied snakes from Wisconsin. We had a rat, Zuba, white rat. Um... It's just we always had. I

SPEAKER_00:

think maybe I might outweird you. I had a pet, a snail, and his name was Amigo. So it was so weird. He probably

SPEAKER_01:

didn't do much, did

SPEAKER_00:

he? No. He was a huge one just climbing on the lattice, picking up an apple. We

SPEAKER_01:

had newts. What are those? Newts. What is that? They're a little salamander-like.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, lizards kind of?

SPEAKER_01:

My son had a bearded dragon. Just,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. Yeah, that's great that you expose your kids to so many different environments, disciplines. They had all these pets. Do you consider you had a farm?

SPEAKER_01:

No, we had six and a half acres. It was technically in the county. It was right outside of Rockford, Illinois. Mm-hmm. But a nice-sized lot. We were the first family out of the original family that built the house in 1916. We were the first people they sold it to outside of the family. And it had six acres full of black walnut trees. Beautiful. Black walnut is used for fine veneer. And the trees had never been harvested. And there was probably over. When they originally built the home, the grandfather had planted these trees. with the intention of when they came to maturation, that they would harvest them and they would pay for like the grandkids college and things like that. And they never harvested the trees. So we ended up when we moved in, we had a professional logging company come in and harvest about 20, 25 of the trees and got a good chunk of change for them, but still had at least 30 trees left on there. And we had a big wood burning furnace in our basement, a big octopus furnace. So we had wood to burn all winter long. And it was a real nice spot for kids to grow up. I don't think all my kids loved the house. So I

SPEAKER_00:

assume all your kids are grown up right now. Yes. On your own, huh?

SPEAKER_01:

My baby is Daniel. He's 34. Samuel, he will be 36. 36. Sarah will be 38 in August. Gabriel just turned 40 in March. And my daughter Hannah, my oldest, will be 42 in September.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you ever feel lonely?

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't believe you.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, really? No. I'd love to have the ability to visit my kids more or to have them come to me, but I live in 600 square feet. Because in L.A., we don't really live in our homes. We live outside.

SPEAKER_00:

That's

SPEAKER_01:

why we're here. So I've lived in the same apartment for 15 years. And lonely, no.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe you don't allow yourself. I'm alone,

SPEAKER_01:

but I'm not lonely. I can honestly say that I'm never sitting, pining away, going, oh, I wish I had someone. I don't. And some people have a hard time believing that, but I try to explain to people, look, I've done it. I've literally done it all. I got married at 16, which is unheard of. I had five children. I didn't just have five children. I actually was with them 24-7 for 20 years straight. I homeschooled them. I grew up with them. And I was married for 23 years to a wonderful man. And then after that, after the divorce, I've had a couple of really, really solid relationships. a six-and-a-half-year relationship when I first moved out here, an eight-year relationship with a boy toy. He was 29 years my junior. I've had boy toys. I've had... Like, I've done it all. It's like... I've had menage a trois. I've, like... I've played all the games. So what's the

SPEAKER_00:

craziest thing you've done?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my God. Well, I guess that would be left up for interpretation. Well, I was a dominatrix.

SPEAKER_00:

I could see you in that. Yeah. I mean, my license plate says that. I'm not surprised. Was it more like a hidden... I mean, were you open about that? Or was it more like... I don't

SPEAKER_01:

hide anything. Here's my view on life. If you're hiding it, you shouldn't be doing it. And people would say, do your kids know? I'm like, well, I guess if I'm hiding it, then it's something wrong, isn't it? And if it's wrong, I shouldn't be doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

What did it give you? Did it give you certain pleasure dominating and being in charge? Or just more giving something to other people?

SPEAKER_01:

I was going to say, you would think, but I like meeting needs. So it's...

SPEAKER_00:

So it's more for you providing something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and in that world, a lot of women are angry with men. Like they have an anger and they want to hurt them. And I'm like, no, that's... Like I've had some requests and I'm like, sorry, dude, no, I'm not. No, that's not my thing. I'm not stomping on your fucking balls. That's not

SPEAKER_00:

happening.

UNKNOWN:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

I can imagine. I mean, I'm following one of the Telegram channels for one of the dominatrix in Russia, and I've read some stories. I mean, some insane, some brutal, but I feel like a lot of men, they're hiding certain desires because, like you said, it's not acceptable in society. And they're looking for the avenue to fulfill those desires and looking for a person who's willing to That is safe. Safe. Yeah, I

SPEAKER_01:

have a questionnaire. One of my original boyfriends, he was a business attorney. He wrote up my contract and I had a questionnaire everybody had to fill out. And, you know, sometimes they're fetishes. I would just be like, sorry, I can't help you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you think those are fetishes or some more mental deviations?

SPEAKER_01:

That's why I would have them fill out a questionnaire because a lot of times some of the things they would put down, I'd be like, okay, I don't know what happened between you and your mom when you were a kid, but I can't help you. You're

SPEAKER_00:

not the psychiatrist.

SPEAKER_01:

I am

SPEAKER_00:

not what you need. So... So that's probably one of your seven lives, right? Yes. That you lived. So you had the life before you came to the States. Then you had your motherhood life, right? The coach and the land and these beautiful trees. And now, I mean, may I ask, are you living now for yourself? Or what is your purpose, I guess, right now?

SPEAKER_01:

I think purpose in general is to find what your gift is and give it away freely. I think then that empowers other human beings. It brings all of humanity up. So like I say, whereas people might be critical of me saying, you know, you're such an extremist or, you know, you put yourself into these situations, you make your life harder. And as I said already, and I'll reiterate it, that I feel that I tend more to be an encouragement and an inspiration and a motivation for other people. And so I think that's what we're supposed to do is find out what your gift is and then freely give it away. Like, don't withhold it.

SPEAKER_00:

What would you advise to people who don't know what their gift is? Stop watching fucking TV and

SPEAKER_01:

figure it

SPEAKER_00:

out!

SPEAKER_01:

Stop being distracted. We do. I do, too. I can't be critical. I have my own areas where I'm going to let myself be distracted. And it's like you... Try to minimize that as much as possible. Sometimes the world is overwhelming. Sometimes the system is overwhelming. I'm not political at all. The whole system's corrupt. It drives me bonkers. When people start talking, I'm like, no, not political. Everybody. Two wings, same bird, corrupt. So it's like, don't get me started. So, you know, I think we all want to check out every now and then. And we all have our different ways of doing it. I just really try to minimize it. I really try to embrace the discomfort rather than anesthetize.

SPEAKER_00:

See, I love what you're saying. Embrace the discomfort because I feel most of the people are so afraid just to be with themselves. They're afraid of silence. They need to be always going out partying. They need to be with somebody. They need to fill in their life with relationships that don't serve them because for the fact they are discomfort, they're uncomfortable to be with themselves because all these voices start coming into your head and you start questioning, what am I doing? What's my point? purpose like what am I trying to achieve like and that's really hard especially nowadays with so much noise how would you what's your advice to eliminate all the noise I know it says simple like don't watch TV but is there certain technique maybe you could share for the people for people to I don't know just to kind of focus and get closer to finding their purpose

SPEAKER_01:

well I would say meditate you know I don't I don't really meditate I'm not really sure what that means I I meditate when I ground or connect with nature in the sense that, like I'll go out on my road bike and Sunday's my one day that I'm not in the gym and I'll go out on my bike and I'll have people go, I don't understand. All you do is exercise all week long and then on your one day off, you still go out on your bike and exercise. And I said, no, no, no, it's a whole different thing. I'm on my bike and I'm riding along the ocean. And it frees my mind to start thinking about things. And I have always done introspection. So when we do something in life, like let's say we, oh, I'm going to do this for that person because it's so altruistic.

SPEAKER_00:

It's more for themselves, right? I

SPEAKER_01:

am the person. I always call myself into account and go, okay, but why did you really do that? Was it really altruistic? Did you do it because you really wanted to serve the other person? or was part of that because serving that other person also made you feel good about yourself. And I've done that my whole life. I can't explain where that came from. I've always done introspection and called myself into account. So I'm always trying to be better. I'm always trying to level up. I'm always trying to stop being an asshole. Like, you know, in different places, I know where my areas are, and it's like,

SPEAKER_00:

okay, you got it. Please

SPEAKER_01:

don't. You got to stop doing that, like on the 405 in my car when people are in the left lane without left lane ambition.

SPEAKER_00:

shouldn't be there some people should be only but that's what it is in europe right like you have to the slow cars driving left and uh the fast ones on the right here you can find a freaking most cringest truck in the fastest lane driving 20 miles an hour

SPEAKER_01:

i got a ticket i got a ticket just about two months ago because there was a white pito van in the left lane and i had worked already 10 hours and I was in diet prep and I needed to get home for that last meal and there was a white van going like 67 and

SPEAKER_00:

I

SPEAKER_01:

zoomed around him and there happened to be a

SPEAKER_00:

CHP

SPEAKER_01:

and he pulled me over and he goes, you in a hurry? I said, yeah, I am in a hurry. I'm very belligerent. White privilege. I get away with it. I literally, I will sit there and swear at the cops. And he goes, he goes, well, you know, I clocked you going 83 trying to go around that van. And I said, well, you know, that van was obstructing traffic. They're in the left lane. I said, there's no one in front of him. I said, he had three other lanes to pick from. I said, the left lane is through lane. I said, that's on the California state driver's test twice about if someone passes you on the right or the left lane. And he's like, I know, I know. He goes, I ride a bike, you know, a motorcycle. He goes, I get it. And I'm like, but you're going to ticket me rather than ticket him for obstructing traffic, the flow of traffic. And he goes, well, you were going 83. And I think it was a Friday night. And I said, so you think I'm on a joyride? I said, listen, I spent 10 hours in the gym today. I said, I'm on diet prep for a competition. I just need to get home, one, to pee, and two, to get my last meal in before I get up at 5 a.m. and start all over again. Now, granted, that ticket hasn't shown up yet. So I have a tendency to, I think they write the ticket and they're like, oh. Okay, yeah, this lady was probably just really, because I think he thought I was, it was a Friday night and I was

SPEAKER_00:

like, no, I'm just trying to get home, man. You can still contest it. You can go have

SPEAKER_01:

your

SPEAKER_00:

case

SPEAKER_01:

in court. There's another one I'm contesting right now.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not surprised. You've seen my car, right? No, I haven't seen your car. Oh my God, that was you? I was like. I actually stopped prepping. I was like, what is this cool car? It's a

SPEAKER_01:

British race car. It's a track car. It's a Lotus. This

SPEAKER_00:

is a cool brand. Tell me about it. Lotus? Lotus. Is it a, I don't know, are they based in Orange County? No? No, it's British. Oh, British. Oh, that's right. That's right. Sorry. I think I'm confusing. It's okay. China. Awesome

SPEAKER_01:

now.

SPEAKER_00:

Like everything else.

SPEAKER_01:

The Brits can't hang on to anything. They're idiots.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's actually a really, really amazing car.

SPEAKER_01:

They lost Jag. They lost Land Rover. You know

SPEAKER_00:

what I mean? Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01:

Mentally, they don't.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. We just had an interview the other episode with the Orange County car brand called Rizvani. The guy is Iranian-American and started a car brand eight years ago. Bulletproof, military meets luxury. It's really incredible. Anyway, it just reminded me. about him. But wow, it's definitely, I can definitely see a personality, the toxic, was it toxic green? It is called krypton green. Krypton, okay, excuse me.

SPEAKER_01:

Krypton green, that is one of the rarest lotus colors.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you heard, a random thought, have you ever heard about the love colors by Pamela Osley? So she is a, I think she's a doctor, a scientist, and she somehow scientifically proved that every person is born with an aura, and Each aura has a specific color. And sometimes we don't work with certain partners because our colors don't match. And so I think based on a color, I just thought of it, you're probably a magenta. Magenta people who love attention. They are very extravagant. They have like cool cars. They have tattoos. They like to be in the center of attention. Very magnetic people. I think you're magenta. Look it up. It's really interesting. I'm a

SPEAKER_01:

violet. The funny thing is, you know, when you said that you're introvert, like you're socially awkward. I'm very socially awkward. And I know you're looking at me like, yeah, whatever. I'm on the spectrum. And if I'm comfortable in my comfort area, I'm good. But if I have to meet someone that I don't know, I get anxiety. I'm like, all right, what do I say? I'm going to sound stupid. Yeah, me too. I'm not... I'm really not, I'm not, wouldn't say I'm an introvert, but I'm just, I'm not that, hi, I'm Mary. I'm not, that's, I'm not that person at all. I am not a welcoming committee. I will always take the back seat and just observe. And, and when I see people that are outgoing and very, you know, like in certain, like, like salespeople and they don't have a problem, like it just floors me. I'm like, how do you do that? Like, I would feel like, So awkward.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you think it's coming from our European upbringing? Because I feel like in Europe... friendship needs to be deserved. It's kind of like, you know, you don't trust everybody, whoever smiles at you and, you know, and be all friendly. Or you

SPEAKER_01:

even trust them less if they smile.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? And the next thing, they stab you in the back, right? Yeah, I think it's more of our, maybe like self-preservation instinct, maybe. We try and kind of first observe and see, can I trust you? Do you want to be friends with you? And then we dive in. I'm very selective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

My group is is quite small

SPEAKER_00:

so what does it take to be in the circle

SPEAKER_01:

that is so funny that you said that because I have so many people that say that like oh I just got lucky and I got you at a weak moment and now I'm in the inner circle I'm like what the fuck does that mean like I'm so special yeah yeah like um you know I'm just me I'm just rolling along living my life but I do it and I've done that with partners too it's like well if you want to be my partner well you got to jump on my train because I'm not trained to changing my trajectory so it's like you adopt my lifestyle of what I do and how I pack my food and I eat and I do these things and I eat only organic non-gmo I don't shop in grocery stores I'm very you know I'm it's like if you can hop on that train we're good but I'm not going to be with someone that fucking eats

SPEAKER_00:

whatever is it selfish would you do the same for your partner

SPEAKER_01:

Pardon?

SPEAKER_00:

Isn't it selfish, like, for you wanting... Not at all. Because they can

SPEAKER_01:

always say no. They get the freedom of choice. We all have the freedom of choice.

SPEAKER_00:

But would you compromise on their... I'm not

SPEAKER_01:

compromising shit.

SPEAKER_00:

Nothing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't have to. Do you know why? That's why you're celibate. It's my life.

SPEAKER_00:

But don't you think... I mean, through your experiences, you've had relationships. Do you think... I mean not successful, I hate that word. Like happy relationship is always like 50-50 compromising on things.

SPEAKER_01:

It's never 50-50.

SPEAKER_00:

It's never 50-50.

SPEAKER_01:

It is give and take. But, I mean, I was in a marriage in the Bible Belt where it was traditional. You know, the husband is the head of the house. And my husband, like, threw clothes of mine away that he didn't like. I didn't speak out of turn. I did what I was told. So, yes, potentially what you see now could be a bit of a reaction. I'd like to say I've come to center ground. But what I've realized is that it's not even me being an asshole. I don't have to compromise anything. You know, none of us do. You are who you are, and you should be able to freely be who you are. And you shouldn't have to go, you know, I really don't feel good about doing this, but I'll do it because you want me. No, you don't have to do that. I spent a good portion of my life doing that.

SPEAKER_00:

But see, the problem for me is that we get so comfortable and live by ourselves, right? It's the most comfortable thing. You have your routine. You have... things the way you want them and of course it's always uncomfortable to have another person but then don't you think you have to choose either just be this lone wild stranger loner rather than okay I'm willing a little bit to compromise I'm like sacrifice here and there but then I will be in a partnership in a relationship And you clearly chose the option that's more convenient for you, right? Because it gives you freedom. It gives you the freedom to be who you are. But don't you think after some time you would have regretted saying, oh, maybe I should have... Not have done it all.

SPEAKER_01:

And when you say yes to this thing, you're saying no to all this over here. So when you say yes to a marriage or a partner, you're saying no to a lot of other things. When you say yes to being single or celibate, I'm saying no, but I'm okay with that. I mean, I could fuck them and send them home. I did that for two years, too, after my divorce. Fuck them and send them home. Can I get your number? No, but thanks for your dick. I like the boot kick. I mean, you know, it's so Like, I've done all those things. And for me, I'm not white knuckling being single.

SPEAKER_00:

It just happens. And I

SPEAKER_01:

don't feel like I'm giving up anything by not getting in a relationship. I honestly, I'm very organic. If someone showed up and I felt like, boom, I was like, all right, I'm going to roll with this. I would. I would roll with it. Look at me. look at my car, look at my attitude in life, how many men do you think approach me?

SPEAKER_00:

I would say they would be very intimidated. So that's actually another question. And I'm okay with it. Do you think, you know, I've heard, I don't know if it's Madonna said, she said, strong men would never be intimidated by strong women. Weak men would be intimidated by strong women. But because the percentage of strong men... is so small, and most of them already take him. I was going to say, and they're

SPEAKER_01:

all fucking married. They're already married. Because I get a handful of them. It's like, no, I would fuck with him, but he's married. He's married, right? And I don't do that. I am very, my integrity in that way, it's like, there's a lot of men I could fuck. I don't need to fuck the married ones, and I won't do that to another woman. I wouldn't do that. But I do know a handful of men that's like, Like, they like me. Like, oh, he could handle me. Like, they meet me where I'm at. But, yeah, they're married. Yeah, those men are married.

SPEAKER_00:

That's where they have

SPEAKER_01:

the confidence. And the weak ones, yeah, no, they crawl up. And I'm like, I don't do that game anymore. Get off your knees.

SPEAKER_00:

I would feel like younger men would be less intimidated by you. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

they are. I would assume, huh? The younger ones are. I'm just tired of teaching them shit.

SPEAKER_00:

I bet, yeah. I mean, I think the philosophy is that younger men need to be mentored by older women, and younger women need to be, you know, taken care of by older men, kind of. I think there's a

SPEAKER_01:

balance. Yeah, I think there's a balance in there somewhere. But we live in a little bit of a wonky world where, you know, especially in this world out here in L.A., where women just want to find a man with money to take care of them. And I'm like, why don't you figure out who you are first? Like, figure out, you know, like your own strengths. And then that way, when that falls apart, because he's going to cheat on you, you know what you can go do.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, most of the times, most women don't understand that money always comes with conditions. Money always comes with... controlling. Money would never come with freedom and respect. You have to give and take and a lot of women don't understand and to me it's difficult for successful women to find successful men because they wouldn't want to be controlled. They wouldn't want to be told what to do. Because they've done it themselves. They've done it themselves. And so of course if you're accepting the comfortable lifestyle you have to give away other things. Like you're not your own person anymore,

SPEAKER_01:

right? You're bought with a price. And I've been told that. I've been told that by men where they say, well, you don't need me. I'm like, no, I don't need you. Obviously, look at the car I provided for myself. Like I run my own life. I don't need you. I want you. Isn't that a far better... You want a needy fucking woman? Is that what you want? Someone that's like... Like... Well, if that's what you want, go find it, because that ain't me.

SPEAKER_00:

But, you know, honestly, I also feel like I started feeling for men recently because I feel they have so much pressure, too, right now. So many checkboxes. And I talk to some of my girlfriends, and they want them to be successful and tall and handsome and smart and funny and this and that. I'm asking, what are you providing in exchange? You can cook. I mean, you're not really expanding your skills. You don't have many hobbies. I mean, you might be successful. You probably don't even suck a good dick. That's true, right?

SPEAKER_01:

It's like,

SPEAKER_00:

be good at something, bitch. That's true. Actually, that's a whole other topic, but I feel like not many women. No, I have one

SPEAKER_01:

of my clients. She's very conservative.

SPEAKER_00:

She's been training

SPEAKER_01:

with me for years, and she just never knows what to do with me. And it's all about energy. Yes, and she for Valentine's Day, she was like, I'm making John this apple pie with the lettuce. I make it every year. It's my specialty, and he just loves it. Apple pie with lettuce. I said, yep, you know what, Em? I said, we're all good at something. I said, I don't do apple pies. And she goes, oh, yeah, I didn't think you did. I said, I used to do chocolate mousse pies. I said, but Dennis would be like, you ever make an apple pie? I was like, nah, chocolate mousse. I said, yeah, apple pies with the lettuce crust. I'm not good at that. I said, but I suck a mean dick. She just rolled her

SPEAKER_00:

eyes. That's true. And a lot of guys, it just feels like because if you accept that, you accept him. And a lot of women rejecting that, they're rejecting the man. And it's like, again, going back to my Telegram secret channels that I follow, there's quite a lot to learn. But I feel women feel like they know it all. And they put so much pressure on the guys. And you think, there's no textbook for guys, at least for women. We watch like romance and this and that. Where do the guys get information? From porn? Well, and

SPEAKER_01:

men have been programmed to. That's why when a man who might be close to my age, who I don't fuck with, I keep a stethoscope on my wall for a reason. I ain't trying to kill nobody. But when they're around my age, they've been programmed where like, oh, I'm supposed to take care of a woman. I'm supposed to provide money and I'm supposed to, it's like, look, that's a bunch of bullshit too. It's like, if you find someone and you guys, that's where you're at and this is what she wants and that's what you want, that's great. Then you'll make that work. And that's why it comes down to individual thing. But we, as our gender roles, we've been programmed that we're supposed to be a certain, we're supposed to fit in these categories and meet these needs for each other. And it's like human beings just aren't that cut and dry. They're just not. It's a funny thing to me in life that we accept variety in different types of trees, different animals, different plants, different flowers. We celebrate the variety. Oh my God, look at that beautiful rose versus that little daisy. But when it comes to humanity, we don't celebrate variety. We want, everything has to be, you know, you're different. That's okay. We celebrate those differences and everything else in nature, but not in each other as human beings. So it's like, there's not these cut and dry, like, you know, rules that we're supposed to like, if you're a man, you're supposed to be this in a relationship. And if you're a woman, you're supposed to be, it's, that's

SPEAKER_00:

not how it works. But do you think we don't accept things like, And that's why I think bullying comes from the unknown, from the fear of not being exposed to different cultures, to different types of personalities, to different, you know, upbringing methods, things like that. So usually the hate and the bullying comes from fear of the unknown, right? Yes, 100%. That's where most of the narrow-minded people come from, run from the places they haven't seen, they haven't traveled.

SPEAKER_01:

Why are you wearing that thing on your head, the

SPEAKER_00:

hijab?

SPEAKER_01:

I've heard it a lot. Why are you dressed like that? Dressed like what? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

this is my normal grocery shopping outfit. So

SPEAKER_01:

actually, yeah, I agree. It's just it's a fear. It's not what you were taught or raised with or what you saw. And so it's outside of your scope of understanding.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's scary, especially nowadays with the modern dating culture. It's like you hear and know this is what you're supposed to do. And you're trying to do that. But then you're scared. But then people get hurt and people don't take accountability. It's like I feel like it's such a crazy part. There's no winning. And you feel like it's probably so Right. Options. Right. You think these are options, but then you keep hopping from one person to another to another to another. You're still

SPEAKER_01:

searching. Because you think that the options are better than sticking with the

SPEAKER_00:

one. Sticking. And that's what my sister was saying. She's like, hey, if you pick that one person and you're both committed, there's no way you cannot find a solution of how to work things out. You can be happy and you find this. 100%. You just

SPEAKER_01:

make the decision. And that could be any choice you make, and you can be perfectly happy with that decision. You just have to say it. This is what

SPEAKER_00:

I'm doing. But I think it's this modern culture, like you said, the conditioning where... they tell you, like in the movies, oh, if you're not happy, move on. Like if you're not, you know, feeling great, like just, you know, leave it behind all the toxic people around you. Like, but nobody tells you about tenacity. Hey, like maybe you need to have a hard conversation. Maybe you have to confront the person and say, hey, you know what? I'm not going to like swallow what you told me yesterday, but I'm going to tell you, I don't like that. You know, I'm not ready. I'm not willing to compromise. But that's a hard conversation. Rather be go somebody and say, oh, you know, I'm not comfortable. Bye. And then you move on. And then you have still something unresolved and keep hopping and hopping.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, I think we've all seen those older couples that seem absolutely miserable with each other. And you think, why did you guys stay together all these years? Because that was what was acceptable. And I think that they could be perfectly happy had they... learned how to address things with each other and continue to grow through the years. But I think because of being raised with a certain mindset or how things are supposed to be, it's like, well, we're married and that's that. And then they just kind of grew apart. And you see them sometimes in grocery stores and they're just like, ah,

SPEAKER_00:

to each other. That's the worst I feel like. It's like living an unhappy life and just settling for unhappiness.

SPEAKER_01:

But by the same token... coming to like sword points in a new relationship and going, oh, well, I guess we're just not meant to be together. And then throwing in the towel. It's two

SPEAKER_00:

extremes, I guess. Yeah. And it's hard to find like that balance, which is, and I guess all comes to the same thing, which you were saying in the beginning, it just really find you, find your own happiness, know yourself, know thyself, knowing what makes you happy, knowing, you know, what brings you joy. And then you make decisions from that point, not looking for those things in other people, Well, that comes from a deficit.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's what I say to people. When you are looking like for a woman that's looking for a man to take care of her. And I'm like, well, you're starting out from a deficit. You're showing up at the table and you're already draining from that relationship because you have a deficit yourself to start with. And sometimes men too, you know, they'll show up and maybe they've lived their lives with their mommy always taking care of them and cooking for them and picking up their dirty underwear and whatever it is and they're looking for a woman to do that too because they don't want to do it and it's like that's a deficit learn how to take care of yourself learn how to cook learn how to keep your fucking apartment clean and your bed made you know don't come into a relationship already with deficits expecting this other person to somehow fill your holes like that's just it's a recipe for disaster and we're all gonna have a certain amount of deficits or But to expect another human to somehow fill that, it's never going to end well. You have to fill those things yourself. You've got to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's hard work. It is. It's constant work. But

SPEAKER_01:

it comes down to something as simple as, and this is what I say to people, I'm very anti-medicine, Western medicine. None of my kids are immunized. I don't do drugs. I don't even do ibuprofen. I haven't been to a doctor in over 20 years. And I say this to people. Whenever someone gets a headache, they want to take a pill, get rid of it. Whenever someone's stomach is upset, rather than let their body vomit, they're going to take something to settle it. Diarrhea, take something. That's uncomfortable. A head cold, take something to get rid of it. Clear the sinuses. They never let their body detox because they don't want to be in the least bit uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. And it's like, no, these... And that's like the simplest form of this living organism. When it's trying to detox from something, it's trying to get something out, a bacteria, a virus, whatever. It's something that's harming it. You ate something and it's like, oh, sorry, we're going to get the shits now because we've got to get this out. People are like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They always want to be comfortable. They'll pop a pill. They'll do... Whatever they do. So they're not ever wanting to face those areas of discomfort. And that even comes down to the most simple of our living organism.

SPEAKER_00:

And most of the times, I don't know exactly the scientific explanation, but do you believe even if psychologically we're going through something, we'll start having some kind of a disease? Yes. And our bodies... especially in an unhappy relationship, have you noticed how women start fading? Like their hair becomes dry, like the skin breaks down, or they have something going on with their body, so the natural response of the body is saying, you need to change, you need to get out. Like it's a signal, right? So a body is so amazing that it tells you right there, like something is off, right? I can say it starts here.

SPEAKER_01:

This creates your reality. I mean, we literally get to create a reality.

UNKNOWN:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm kind of living proof of that.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you are. I mean, I feel like I have so many more questions. We are like a little bit out of time. I want you to just lastly comment. You actually posted, I spied a little bit on your Instagram stories, and you posted a quote by Marcus Aurelius. I

SPEAKER_01:

am stoic, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Me too. High five. So you said strong, I mean, Marcus Aurelius said, strong minds suffer without complaining and weak minds complain without suffering. Without suffering. What does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_01:

That people will, me for instance, maybe I make difficulty just to push through. to not only prove to myself but to show other people that what we would define as suffering doesn't have to be suffering. So you don't have to think that you're suffering or complain about it. And then yet I have people in my life that are very affluent, very well off, have everything at their fingertips, but they yet on the daily will find just so many things to bitch about. Like, everything's a problem. And I'm like, how do you have any problems in your life? It's

SPEAKER_00:

kind of like more victim mentality, right? Yes. It's more getting that attention and getting the justification for your pain, for your suffering, because they don't have any other avenues to express themselves.

SPEAKER_01:

They're drumming

SPEAKER_00:

up drama. Drumming up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

My brother Russell, who was a drug addict, he had a victim's mentality. He was a drug addict because we... moved here to America and he never wanted to leave Scotland. He was a drug addict because he didn't get the same opportunities because my dad made him work in the bakery when he first came here. He was a drug addict. He had all these finger points to everyone outside of himself as to why his life was a shambles. And it's like, no.

SPEAKER_00:

You are the problem. Fix it. You're a fucking adult. So to wrap it up, for those people who are watching and maybe something is burning inside them and they want to make a change in their life but they don't know how, what would be the advice you would tell them to find that inner fire? Oh

SPEAKER_01:

my God, I'm going to be Nike cliche. Go for it. Just do it. This is my little saying. Head down, hoodie up, headset on, move. Don't look to the right or the left. Don't overthink. Just put the hoodie up, put the headset in, put your head down, move. Just move. Just go. Don't rationalize. Don't explain. Just do it.

SPEAKER_00:

That was really insightful. Thank you for this conversation. I wish we had three, four more hours. I didn't even get to the questions about the nutrition and fasting, all the things, but I feel like at some point I would love to do part two because you have a very interesting approach to life and I would love more people to hear about it and not hear it like from some, you know, fluffy super sweet you know channels that say from a real person that's

SPEAKER_01:

actually living what they believe

SPEAKER_00:

living what you believe and you live happily and you look amazing and you have great energy and i'm very grateful that you agreed to come on the basic show and talk to me and share your story i'm like really inspired from today i'm definitely going to turn off my tv for today Starting small steps. Yeah. Well, we had Mary Brandon today. Thank you so much. And I hope one day we have part two. Awesome. That would be great. Thank you.