The BASIC Show

SANDRA HATTON: Why Dating Isn’t Broken | EPISODE 20

• Viktorija Pashuta • Season 4 • Episode 20

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Sandra Hatton: Why Dating Isn’t Broken — It’s Just Misunderstood | The BASIC Show w/ Viktorija Pashuta

In this episode of The BASIC Show, host Viktorija Pashuta sits down with professional matchmaker and When We First founder Sandra Hatton for a candid and surprisingly refreshing look at modern love — from dating apps to emotional alignment and everything in between.

Sandra opens up about:

💔 Why most people don’t actually know what they want in love

💡 How matchmaking blends human intuition with modern tech

📱 The “Human Button” — a feature that makes online dating personal again

💬 Why alignment matters more than chemistry

👠 Feminine energy, standards, and the real dating mindset shift post-COVID

🔥 28 dates in 30 days — and what it taught her about attraction

This conversation breaks the illusion that dating is “broken” and replaces it with a simple truth: love takes self-awareness, emotional clarity, and a willingness to get out of the house.

🎧 Listen now  — and tag someone who still believes butterflies don’t exist.

📺 Subscribe for more powerful interviews every Wednesday!
🛒 Subscribe to the Print Edition of BASIC Magazine – A Collectible Work of Art Delivered Quarterly: https://buybasicmagazine.myshopify.com

🎙️ The BASIC Show is hosted by Viktorija Pashuta — Editor-in-Chief of BASIC Magazine.

📍 Recorded at: 405 Motoring, Los Angeles @405motoring
🔗 Follow Sandra: @sandralee81 @whenwe1st

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SPEAKER_00:

He was I went on 28 dates in 30 days, but in real life, nine times out of ten, people do not look like their photos. I think a lot of people say dating is broken. Um, matchmaking is very different than online dating.

SPEAKER_01:

Men will never marry the love of their lives. Yeah. Men always will marry whoever whenever they're ready.

SPEAKER_00:

She just said to me, I was married for 20 years, I've never been in love. What I believe is that the only dating woman's real relationship. It always makes me sad when nobody's ever felt butterflies or had that feeling.

SPEAKER_01:

We are here at 405 motoring, the ultimate out of spot. Very cool location. I feel like we're in the movie, and I have a very special guest, Sandra Hayton from When We First. Hi Sandra. Hello. Welcome to the basic show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

I love your dress code for today. Today's season theme is dark matter, inspired by F1 Meets Matrix. And I love how you prepared and so edgy, vampy, a little bit dangerous.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. This is a very New York wardrobe. Very easy to throw together some black clothes. And I watched Matrix on the way here.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Okay. I love how you prepared emotionally for this for this episode. And speaking of New York, right? It's sex in the city, this is where uh all of the stories and love stories and drama is coming from, right? So tell us about your company. And I have a lot of questions. Let's start from the very beginning. When are we first? Yeah, how did it start? You know, what is it about? Give us a few lines about um your new venture.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I've been in matchmaking for 16 years this year, so a long time. And I started at a very large matchmaking service. I was there for 13 years as the vice president. And I just kind of found there was a need for a lot of work to be done in the dating industry. I think a lot of people say dating is broken. And matchmaking is very different than online dating, it's always been around for thousands of years. Um, and so matchmaking services, their goal and job is to match people based on their relationships and kind of in a way find matches for you and coordinate them and arrange them. So the company that I was at just didn't really use any technology, and matchmaking doesn't really have a lot of technology, it's very intuitive and personal. But I believe in technology. So I really wanted to, I got lucky enough to create a brand that combines both technology and the human touch.

SPEAKER_01:

So, in my personal experience, what I believe that online dating ruined real relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it kind of damaged how okay, we're here. Wow. You guys now feel a part of the set. We have the planes, the cars, the motorcycles. Now you understand that we're actually not in the studio. We're not in actual outer shop. So let's go back to dating, right? So can you actually explain to me how, in your opinion, yeah, online dating didn't ruin, or maybe it could actually elevate and help people to find their true match.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I've always believed that no matter where you meet, someone is good, whether it's online, whether it's in person. Of course, everybody wants to meet somebody naturally who doesn't want to just meet someone at the grocery store, you know, walking down the street. But I personally have seen a lot of people have success online. I've personally had success online, but it's changed a lot in the last few years, especially since like COVID times, where people just have kind of shifted their mindset that they want to meet in person again, but it's really hard. You know, it's really hard. So we developed a dating app that essentially has a human button. So it's a human element in the app to give people an opportunity to get help online dating better, whether it's to set up their profile if they don't know how or just don't want to do it, um, or to get a coaching session if not they're not ready for matchmaking. But then behind the scenes, you have a bunch of matchmakers and dating experts helping to guide the way. And then we do separate offline matchmaking. So kind of consider it the first hybrid dating service that has both online and offline. But if you're gonna date online, it will just be a better way to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so you have an app, yeah, kind of more of a traditional way that we used to. Yeah. And then as an additional feature, you have the human button where uh your what do you call the the candidates, right?

SPEAKER_00:

What's the right way to the Yeah, clients, clients, candidates.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't like to use the word users because you know, or people, so yeah. Humans, humans looking for humans. So then you have an additional feature of an actual matchmaker, person, a human person. A human person, yeah. Who actually is there with you throughout your journey? But do you think it could be a little bit biased? Or maybe let me paraphrase the question. Do you think um there is a difference between a using an algorithm that's more stereotypical versus having an actual person who is getting to know you and finding a match? Maybe I don't know if it's too judgmental or subjective. How do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, let me start with we built our algorithm ourselves the way that no other dating app has one. So it's 99% on relationship goals, qualities and characters. Another plane. Another plane, and and like things that you actually have in common. So it's not a Swipe app, you only get a couple of matches a day. So we didn't copy an algorithm from any other dating app to just kind of randomly match you on like what kind of pizza you like. It's really based on relationship goals. And then again, the whole point of the app is to just help people date better until they feel more comfortable and see more value in matchmaking. So I am a little biased, of course. I'm a matchmaker. I I know that matchmaking works better because we're intuitive, we understand people better when you get to know someone. And an app, I don't believe, really can do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you think with apps, the problem, in my opinion, is that we have too much choice, right? And the apps that became successful nowadays, they became successful just because you have access to so many people. Yeah. So you have a huge pool of potential candidates, yet we're still searching and searching, and maybe the illusion of choice um doesn't really lead many, you know, to finding the true match. Or maybe the problem is that in at the bottom of it, we don't know really what we want. So if we'll go back to candidates that on your app, do you think people actually know exactly what they want?

SPEAKER_00:

People think they know what they want. So, like if you go on your phone and you're looking for an outfit or a pair of sunglasses or shoes, you're just gonna continue to see those things pop up in your algorithm. The same thing goes for a dating app. But think about it this way: just because you're seeing them and they're popping up on your app doesn't mean those things want you back. So it's kind of like shopping, but the person on the other end has to really want to purchase you back. It's a strange analogy, but that's why it doesn't work because you're just able to kind of order up a match, but it is it really a true match, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

So it sound more like a dateable inventory in a sense that we approach things like love and happiness and joy uh in in in the into the checklist, right? And saying I want one, two, three in a partner. And maybe in real life you meet somebody who you fall in love that doesn't match your checklist. So, yeah, in your experience, how do you actually find matches for each other?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What questions do you ask or what criteria do you use?

SPEAKER_00:

We always start for matchmaking with a minimum of an hour interview. The number one thing that we match on is your relationship goal. Because if you don't have the same goals, nothing else matters at all. You can have chemistry, you can be attracted, you can have things in common, you can be laughing. But what does that matter if your goals don't align? So that's the first thing, and that's exactly how our algorithm is set up on the app, anyway. And then after that, it's the top qualities and characteristics that you're really looking for. So I think when people come to match, making they've had enough experience or time, or I call it like a light bulb moment, trigger moment, if you will, where they decide this is what I want, this is what is important to me. And they're kind of in a place emotionally where they're able to let us compromise on a couple of the other things. So when we do this interview, we are focused on your goals of relationships, the qualities, the characteristics, the morals, the values, and lifestyle does come into play. Like clearly your lifestyle has to be compatible enough where you can see it working, and then everything else is like get on a first date and then see if there's chemistry, then see if there's attraction. But we do find that most people are compromising on some things that they thought on paper would be perfect for them, and then they end up with someone else.

SPEAKER_01:

So, what are those first questions you ask them to figure out what could be the right match for the person?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, the first one is why, why now? And like, why are they looking intentionally to date? Because I just don't think it will work unless two people are intentional.

SPEAKER_01:

So do you think people's people's goals change since let's say first time you started working, but then maybe like a few months later?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, if somebody has just got out of a long relationship or a marriage, they don't know what they want sometimes. They're kind of using that one long relationship as the example. And so sometimes even subconsciously, they don't know that they're doing this, but they're just like, and my ex-husband or wife was like this, so that's what I'm looking for. And so it does change, it's fine-tuning as you go. The whole point is getting out on dates and then figuring out what you like and what you don't like after you meet the person. Right now, we're just in the mindset that I don't want to meet that person, they don't fit what I'm looking for on paper, and then no one's dating anymore. Exactly. Nobody's going on date. Exactly. Whereas if you just go on a date, then you can come back and say rule number one, get out of the house. Yes, go on a date. Come back and say, Yeah, that guy sucked or that woman was awful. But go find out first because at least you know the relationship goals line up, you're looking for the same things, those qualities and characteristics that we've vetted for you. We think they're there, and then you can come back and tell us.

SPEAKER_01:

Sometimes I feel like people who have the longest list have some personal issues. I don't know if it's just me. Usually the people who are the most demanding have some personal, you know, um unresolved trauma or things that they are the problem, right? Why they're in this situation. What do you think about that? Do you think this is the case?

SPEAKER_00:

I know every every case is it's a loaded question because we're all human and we all have things that come to the table in a relationship. There's no such thing as a perfect match or a perfect person. It's just, are you willing to put in the work in any relationship or commitment that you're in? What we do that's really different, and I think we're the only matchmaking service that's doing this. But the reason I developed it this way is because dating is an emotional roller coaster, and especially if you have things that you have to work on, we do weekly coaching with our clients to just kind of keep them encouraged and motivated and sometimes help them with some of the things that you're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

What is a weekly coaching? What could you possibly coach?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, a lot of it is just staying positive. Like, you know, you want to attract the right partner. So if you're in that negative mindset or negative energy, or you know, even if it's just that you had a bad day at work and you're going on a date that night, like let's get on a quick call to you know, prep you and pump you back up.

SPEAKER_01:

It's all comes back to you, right? Yeah. Feeling in the right space, you know, being happy, feeling fulfilled outside of or before getting into the relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

You will attract no matter what. I think that there's some misconceptions that you'll just always attract the same kind of thing. You're just gonna attract if you're attracting, but like be have discernment, attract the right kind of positive energy, be that energy so you notice if it's outside of that. So you're like, oh, okay, this person's not on my level. And I don't mean career-wise or my, I'm saying energetically, mindset-wise.

SPEAKER_01:

So tell us your personal story. What actually triggered you personally? I mean, you mentioned earlier that you did find, do you may ask you, do you have a partner?

SPEAKER_00:

Not right now, not right now.

SPEAKER_01:

But you said you had a partner that you found uh uh online, right?

SPEAKER_00:

I did not meet, I've met three partners online, which is a lot, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as a matchmaker, it's a little bit easier for me to go online and find matchmakers. They have a little bit of a, you know, I'll just say I have a way to do it. Um, I think the the first person I met online was, gosh, so long ago, I I don't want to say how long, but it was a long time ago. And he was, I went on 28 dates in 30 days. Well when I first got into the dating industry. I was like, how do you date? I don't know how to date. Let me figure this out. And he was the very last date, the 28th date. And it was the one that I really didn't want to go out with. I was like, there is no way I'm gonna date this. Isn't it interesting?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Like you usually a women I I brought a concept actually backstage a few uh a few episodes back, and and I want to hear your opinion on it. Yeah, the opinion was that the most happiest, fulfilling relationships are 10, 6, where the partner is a 10 and the other partner is a six, just the visually. It doesn't have to be the best looking partner in the world, but let's say uh your six, your your type six, your type 10.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So, and interesting that you mentioned because this is not the first time I'm hearing when a woman says, you know what? I actually really great chemistry with the guy that didn't want to go out on a date. Oh, I didn't really like him in the beginning. What is your opinion? Why why does it happen?

SPEAKER_00:

I think again, just we're human, we we prejudge, we pre-qualify, we think we know, but I think the universe has other plans for overanalyze, overthings.

SPEAKER_01:

Everything.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, men are more visual, and and that's fine. I think it's fine. Everybody wants to be attracted to their date, but you know, I think as women we have a different kind of list. And so this particular person that I went on a date with, he did not meet that list at all. I mean, I'll just say it he was.

SPEAKER_01:

You mean after the first date or before? Before.

SPEAKER_00:

He's a firefighter, he works at a bar. Not my kind of guy. Okay. Not gonna date that guy. We ended up dating for a long time.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Yeah. So what made you like him when you first met him?

SPEAKER_00:

He was charming, he was charismatic, he was confident, a lot of masculine energy. I really like masculine energy.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I think hopefully not toxic, masculine.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, but you know, I mean, had that, but also very shovel. I mean, a firefighter that was vegan. I mean, does that exist? Okay, you know, there were just things that I was like, okay, this guy's impressive. It was a storm, it was a winter storm. I mean, a blizzard. The snow was this high, and he carried me home. Wow. Like physical. Romantic. I know. So I was like, all right, maybe he's not so bad.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? It's a very dangerous job to have.

SPEAKER_00:

It's very dangerous. So I mean, three relationships, and I was able to just the the second to just pick them out. And it was the only date I went on when I just so happened to be on an app. And that was many years ago. But so I know it can happen. So I think in my industry, I was the only matchmaker that I knew of that didn't really knock online dating. Because I thought, why would I knock that just because it's different? If you're able to meet someone any way, meet them, go out on dates. Don't be scared, right? Don't worry about what's gonna happen. Talk to your girlfriends about it afterwards if it sucks and laugh about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you go on a second date if let's say first date was like, meh, okay, you didn't really get that chemistry with a person? Yeah, you would still go.

SPEAKER_00:

If if so the rule is, is there an alignment? Don't worry about is he the hottest guy? Is he the most successful guy? Just is there an alignment with your values, with your morals, your goals? And some of those things do mean financially or lifestyle, because is there an alignment with those things? But do you feel aligned? And then if you do, a second date's worth it because that is sometimes when chemistry happens. You just don't know. Or even the third date, I I can tell you hundreds of couples that I've matched that if I go back and read their feedback from the first date, like one of them will say, She was amazing. I heard, you know, birds singing and bells ringing, and and the woman's like, he was okay. When's my next match? See 6'10. But then he liked them. And they ended up getting married, or they'll call you and say, Oh, I forgot to tell you. We've been dating for six months, and you're like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01:

But okay, so I have a question. So on the first date, you speak about alignment, right? Yeah. And I think, isn't it too artificial, right? Because usually if you meet people in real life, right, you don't know their actual goals, you don't know the actual backstory, you don't know how they're gonna behave in the in a difficult situation in life, right? You only see them for the first time. So is it appropriate at the first date ask them, okay, what are your goals? What are you trying to achieve? The questions I hate is like, what are you looking in the relationship? Yeah. Do you think this is appropriate to ask during the first date or leave for the second, third date and just see how the chemistry goes during the first date?

SPEAKER_00:

So again, the way that we match, you won't be meeting someone unless your goals align, like, kind of do that for you because that's the point. Okay. You want to make sure that the relationship goals line up and you know, you already walk into that date feeling confident. The person across the table, they're looking for what you're looking for, they're on the same kind of wavelength. So you don't feel uncomfortable saying, by the way, what are you looking for? You already know. I think that's also why we set up the app that same way. So even if you match with someone on the app, they have to at least kind of have those same goals. But otherwise, if you're just meeting someone on another app or out and about, yeah, I think it's totally fine to ask what your goals are in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but see, you have to bear in mind not everybody's truthful. So let's say when you work with your candidates, right? Your humans, um, how truthful are they during that first hour of interview?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, if they're contacting a matchmaking service, most of our clients don't have a problem dating. You know, they're really just looking for quality, substance, and they don't want to settle for anything. So that's usually why. And that's like I said, I talked about the light bulb moment. We call it the emotional trigger. There's usually something that's like, okay, I'm ready to take this more seriously. So I don't I haven't come across anyone that's lying about what they're looking for because it does take contention, it takes time, and there's an investment financially too. So I do think that that kind of weeds out some of that problem. Now, online, not so much, because online it's like free or not that expensive.

SPEAKER_01:

So, speaking of investment, do you only work with wealthy clients?

SPEAKER_00:

No, we are really, I think that was something that I had a problem with because I didn't grow up with money. And I think that, you know, there's all different kinds of people and walks of life, and everybody deserves love. Every it's free, right? Love is free. Not everywhere. But it's but you know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, in terms of what we charge, I think it's a very high value. And yes, we have quite large packages as well for wealthy people, but then we also have accessible packages for those that are still serious about dating and want to make a reasonable.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's speak about your male clients, right? Who are using the matchmaking services? Yeah. Let's speak about those men. Sure. I love talking about those men. Let's speak about let's speak and see who these men are. And yeah, I will I will narrow down my question. So you have experience through years. Do you think men's um desire for certain qualities in women changed throughout the years? Say before they worried about the body count, they wanted a nurturing, a woman who can cook. And nowadays, maybe some men would say, I want a woman who inspires, who has her own venture. Yeah. Can you give us a little profile for these men that you're working with?

SPEAKER_00:

It's hard to give a generalization because I, again, I think there are different kinds of people. Um, I think in general, the busy professional men that come to us, they're at the point where they do want to meet a woman who, yes, has the feminine qualities, who's nurturing and loving and kind, but they also want them to have something going on, right? Because they can find a woman anywhere. You know, they're successful in their own right, they don't have a problem meeting women anywhere. Men unfortunately have the upper hand sometimes when it comes to that. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry to interrupt you, but sometimes you think if the man has to use the service of a matchmaker, something might be wrong with him. If you cannot, you know, go out there and meet a woman, you know, in real life.

SPEAKER_00:

It's kind of the opposite. Really? Smart men don't want to waste their time. You know, their time is their largest resource and their biggest asset. A successful man, he does not want to waste his time. So if he's really looking for a substance, he's still gonna have the list of the other things. But usually he wants that woman to have their own career, profession, something going on outside of the relationship. So it's gonna be a good one. That's the majority of the men that we work with.

SPEAKER_01:

So let's go back to the profile. So most of them are successful, I say I would say busy.

SPEAKER_00:

Busy is a big one. Most of our clients in general, no matter women or men, are pretty busy.

SPEAKER_01:

So is it a problem if the man is successful yet too busy for a relationship? Say when they do need their match, are they willing to compromise their lifestyle for that special person?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's why they I mean, if you think about it, they're even taking time to get on a call every week with their matchmaker. So they're come, you know, they're taking that time intentionally to meet the right person to make more time. I mean, I'm trying to think of this gentleman I was talking to the other day and he was telling me how busy he is and all the places he's going and all these things to do. And I said, Wow, it doesn't really seem like you have a lot of time for him. He's like, I'm just doing these things because I don't have the woman or she can come with me. You know what I mean? So he doesn't have a woman? Yeah. So, you know, he's gonna be more busy on his own than when he has a woman. For example, he was traveling like all over the world, just everywhere. And I said, Are you sure you're even gonna be in town if I have a date for you? He's like, I'll be in town for her, she can come with me. I'm doing these things because I don't have anyone in my life.

SPEAKER_01:

So you think they come to you because they actually determined or they are uh determined to be more committed, right? They're competing. Yeah. Because nowadays with the apps, people usually, men mostly say, you know, I'm just looking, right? I just want to see what's out there, or you know, I just want to see where it takes. But do you believe when you see and you feel your match, you actually know this is it, I'm gonna change my whole life just to be with that person?

SPEAKER_00:

I think a man will make time for the right woman, absolutely. They do. Time and time again, we see it. Absolutely. I mean, every man's different. I'm not gonna say they're gonna quit their jobs and just open up their schedule, but I mean, if they're an app is different, so I just want to separate that. Like, there's a lot of men on apps that are just there to get a dopamine boost, an ego boost, go on a couple dates here or there, not intentional for dating. But when it comes to a man who's purchasing a matchmaking membership, there's a reason he's ready to find a partner.

SPEAKER_01:

Do does it put more pressure on you, especially for men who are successful and they're paying high price for matchmaking service? Do they actually put the pressure on you like I paid for this, I need the results?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So how do you how do you handle you manage it the best you can? I mean, I try in my my personal way is you know, I try to give them most everything that they have in their checkbox for the cur the first couple of matches. And then once they have your trust and they say, Okay, then they just trust you and they don't ask any more questions like whatever you think, you know me, you got this. So you just kind of have to earn that trust a little bit. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Did any male clients hate on you personally? Yes, most most times. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_00:

I just keep it professional. I've really never I get that question a lot. I've never dated a client, I've never said, Oh yeah. I mean, just m ethically and morally, I just I don't I don't do that, but yeah, it's pretty common.

SPEAKER_01:

So, okay, so you okay, so you're a successful woman, you have your agency, yet you don't have a partner. Yeah. So how come, you know, yeah, is it something that our standards are too high? Is it something that we know exactly what we want? What is it?

SPEAKER_00:

Why do you think I think it's I don't like to think that there's such a thing as too high of standards? I mean, your standards should be, like I said, your morals, your values, the qualities, characteristics. I think as women, we think it's all these other things. Like, I personally don't have a long list like that. Um, because I I just have a lot of experience, so I can see what works and what really doesn't work. Um, so I think in general, some women do need to, I don't want to say lower your standards, but really think about what are those standards. Like, are those standards really your must-haves? Um, but in general, I think every we're human, we have our experiences for a reason, you know, no matter if you've been in one relationship or five or ten. I got lucky starting this journey when I was 27 and just seeing that people can find love at any age, at any time. I'm kind of like a hopeless romantic in that way. Like I've seen it happen. So I'm just so can you share with us some success stories?

SPEAKER_01:

Like your personal favorites one?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I was gonna tell you about my grandma, but she's not one of my successors. So my grandma got married again at 84, and she's been married for another alive and kicking. She's 95, I think. She'll kill me. She's not persistence. She didn't give up.

SPEAKER_01:

Never give up. 84.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you just cannot. But I've had a few really fun success stories. Um, so has my team, because my team is all really experienced too. But one of my favorites was this woman, and I won't say her name. Matchmaking is confidential, by the way, so we never give out last names or whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

We're gonna call her Jessica.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, she was a radio host, she did all these like radio ads for the company I was working for. So she would be the person that would do the voice of the commercial and say, call this number and blah blah blah. And then one day she contacted personally to get matchmaking. And she just said to me, I was married for 20 years, I've never been in love, don't believe in it, but I want to meet someone. And I said, Okay, and it kind of made me sad. It always makes me sad when nobody's ever felt butterflies or had that feeling. Because I think we deserve it all. Long story short, I set her up first date actually with this gentleman. Oh, yeah, I forgot to say this part. She purchased a house like outside of a big city. She said, I just bought this house, I'm not moving into the city, I'm not gonna change my lifestyle for anyone. And maybe like three months later, she called me and I didn't even recognize her voice because she said, Oh my gosh, I forgot to tell you. I forgot to tell you. I you know, the guy that you, yeah, you know, the guy that you set me up with. I just sold my house, we're moving in, we're getting engaged. And the cutest thing she said, she goes, I felt butterflies for the first time in my whole school life. And I said, Oh, and it's just that's why I do it. It's just beautiful to see that, you know, because she was happily married for so long and never felt that feeling. So I have so many like that. And again, almost everything was outside of her box that she was looking for.

SPEAKER_01:

So you must have some kind of, I don't know if it's obviously your experience, but do you have any specific skill set? Because every time I'm trying to personally match somebody, I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna be so perfect. Somehow they see each other and they both say, we hated each other. We hate and I asked, and I and it's so many times I feel miserable. I'm like, oh my god, this you guys are gonna be perfect and they hate each other. So I know it sounds easy, but it's actually very difficult. Yeah, how is a specific skill set to do that? I think it's intuition.

SPEAKER_00:

I know that sounds really weird, but like, I mean, my co-founder Marielle, she's matched some people too, just she just has, and it's intuitive. Like my first year, I was awful at it. I remember my first year, I had no success stories, no relationships. I had a woman show up in my office screaming, like I had to call security on her. Oh, wow. She was so mad because she hated her first date, and I was like, This is what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. My second year, I had seven marriages and 13 out of 14 people I matched on a first date, and it was all outside of what they were looking for, and it was all a feeling I had.

SPEAKER_01:

So if you have to observe that common pattern, yeah, uh, based on those, let's say, seven successful marriages, and you mentioned they weren't at each other's like type, really, right? So, what what was it?

SPEAKER_00:

I just I wish I could say it's it's intuitive. Like you you listen to when you do an interview with someone, they might say something. It could be a quote, it could be a phrase, it could be it's usually something really personal that they might say to you and you just remember it. You just remember it, and then you're on this other interview with another call with someone else, and you're like, uh-huh. Sometimes they're saying the exact same thing, like in the same order. There's sequences, and I'm like, this has to be something else.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, so when you experience, do the people who match, do they have the same personalities, likes, and you know, things they like to do? Uh so, like you say, they said the same thing, or you or you believe in opposites attract?

SPEAKER_00:

I think there's a lot of opposites attract. Um, I don't I think lifestyle, some things must be compatible. Hobbies and interests, who cares? Let him go play golf. You can go to your brunch with your girlfriends, like you do not. Not need to have everything in common with someone that is silly. You know, I mean some things, yes. Um, but what it really is is it goes back to personalities. Like, do your personalities match? Like sense of humor, like if he's got a really dry sense of humor and someone else doesn't get that, I'm probably not gonna think you're a good match. Um, but when it comes to what you're looking for, the values in someone, like those things line up for a reason, you know, and so if someone's really honest and really wants someone honest, I'm gonna think of that first. Um, but I when I say things that they say, it could be just like, oh, my favorite island and I did this or that, and then someone else says the same thing. It could just be something small, but they also have to still fit, like I said, the relationship goals. I have to think you're gonna be attracted physically to each other. Um, but personality-wise, I do find that opposites do attract often.

SPEAKER_01:

So to summarize, you pretty much saying, Okay, the goals have to align, right? They have to be in the same stage of their life. Hey, I want to get married or want to have a family or just looking for a serious relationship. And then you look at the character qualities, right? So what are those qualities that they both looking in each other, right?

SPEAKER_00:

And then some of the things that we try to tweak are okay, I know you said you only wanted blondes, or I know you said you only wanted someone this height, or I know you said you only wanted this age. Those are the things that we match or try to match outside of. So those are the things sometimes we compromise on. You don't know exactly what color hair or eyes or height or age even that your person is.

SPEAKER_01:

So do so speaking of that, do you believe in visualization? Say if you're looking for somebody, you should just write down every single uh, you know, visual characteristic, uh personal um characteristic, you know, every little detail about what they do, what they like, and then you think they will have more chances to find a partner, or just you know, be free, just flow, you know, go with the flow.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's important to manifest for sure and visualize. But I when it comes to what someone looks like, I don't know about that. I think that's kind of where it can get a little gray.

SPEAKER_01:

So it looks a secondary.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, maybe that's the problem, especially welcome to California. I think everything is like loops based story. I don't know if it's the same in New York, right? People are obviously, I know guys are very visual, but women are too, right? And I think most of the people who are trying to match, they look at the I mean, obviously appearance is important, but they look only at the looks and the chemistry, which is not enough, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what the craziest thing is? I have done so many interviews in person, like in real life. I've done over 10,000 interviews. Oh, wow. Total. But in real life, nine times out of ten, people do not look like their photos. So when you're looking on an app and you're like, not attractive, not for me, you don't even really know what that person looks like. Oh, you're 65, you're 35. Men look way better in person than in photos. Men, sorry, you're terrible at taking photos. They don't know how to do it, they don't know what photos to pick. They do selfies. We don't, men should not do selfies, gym photos, bathroom photos. Enough of that. Like, stop doing it, please.

SPEAKER_01:

Do it professionally.

SPEAKER_00:

And they come in and I'm like, we gotta go take. I will just take out my cell phone and take pictures of them. I bought, I'm not a photographer. I bought a professional camera so that way when I meet with clients, I'm like, we're gonna go fix what you're doing online. So it's just silly to to think visually it has to look like this and swipe someone on an app when you just don't really know what they look like. Have you ever done like blind blind dates? Yeah, my first year was blind dating.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh-huh. Your personal one.

SPEAKER_00:

Like when I said, Oh, have I been on a blind date?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I'm just saying in general with your clients. When you've done like let's say they haven't seen what their potential date looks like, but just based on your recommendation. Yep. Yeah. So how how did it end up? Is it the girl who came screaming?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was a blind. She didn't really care, believe it or not, what he looked like. She just had some other qualifications she made. But um, yeah, my first year was all blind dates. And but I met them in person, so I was able to describe pretty well. Okay. But again, it it really does work because you're not able to pre-judge and pre-qualify. It kind of prevents you from doing what we do as humans, is saying, oh, not attractive enough for me, doesn't fit this visualization that I have for my person.

SPEAKER_01:

So they come with no expectations pretty much on the Friday. So it takes off the pressure, yeah, right, to like to get some.

SPEAKER_00:

We show photos now and I do believe in that, but I also we we work with photographers to take clients' dating photos. Like, we won't present someone unless they have good photos. I don't care who you are. If you don't have good dating photos, we're not gonna present you to someone else because it's just gonna do you a disservice. So I do believe in sending photos, but I also believe that if you're gonna decline someone based on a photo, you're really missing out. Because they may look way better in person. Or you might think that person in the photo looks amazing, and then you see them in real life and you're like, eh.

SPEAKER_01:

Probably the best guys are those who are not good with technology.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they don't know what to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm telling you, it's they're more connected to themselves, to the nature, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And they're they're not that kind of guy. They're like, what am I gonna ask my buddies to take a photo of me? No, they're not like, hey, take a picture of me to this car.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially be careful of the guys who spend more time in front of the mirror. Yeah, exactly. Spending time on you, right? Nobody really wants that guy anyway. You know, did you have clients like that? Yeah, too much into themselves, right? Ego sense.

SPEAKER_00:

But that's why the coaching helps weekly because it does humble you. Dating humbles anyone. Oh, I see. You know, you get so we get feedback from uh the clients. Oh, and we also share feedback we get about them. Interesting. How do they take it?

SPEAKER_01:

Do they take it really personally or are they actually willing to change? Every person's different.

SPEAKER_00:

Some clients love it. Some clients do not like it. And that's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

We don't have to share feedback, but it's because ideally you don't want to change, right? For the other person. You want to find your true match that will accept you as you are, right?

SPEAKER_00:

The alignment needs to be there. So it's like feedback is it's always constructive because it's really not about what did you do right or wrong. It's about is this person right for you? Right? And so, I mean, sometimes you did do something wrong on the date. Like, were you mean to the waiter?

SPEAKER_01:

And nobody's there to tell you, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, or like, you know, sometimes just simple tips that people need for dating, especially just getting out there after a long relationship or marriage. You don't know how to date anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, we do have free access to you today, just for this one hour. What is the free three tips you can give to a couple or two people who are about to go to their first date?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think the first one is what I've been saying is just make sure you go in with the mindset that this is not about am I good enough? Is this person gonna like me? Am I gonna get a second date? Am I attractive? Like, don't even worry about any of that stuff at all. Just go in with the mindset that I'm here to see if this is my match, and I'll know because I'm gonna feel that alignment. And I don't say chemistry because chemistry is tricky. We might be like, oh my gosh, it was so much chemistry, but that doesn't matter two months later. Yeah, just stay focused on what you're there for and what really is important to you. You know, that's the first thing. I think that's really important. The second thing is just have fun. Like, honestly, just have fun, talk about things that are really fun, don't make it heavy conversation. How week is you wanna have, what gonna be the next? The one that really gets that's the hard you just literally said the one thing. Like, if you want children, they already know that. Please don't ask, when do you want children?

SPEAKER_01:

How soon? That's why I'm single. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't you if at least with matchmaking, we're only gonna match you with someone that already wants children. So just you don't need to say when. Tell me when, because then he's gonna get scared. That's just how men are, that's their nature. Sorry, it's how it goes. But have fun, you know? Try to talk about things that you might have in common, you know. Just men are really attracted to women who are optimistic and happy and easygoing. Even if you're not really like that, just try for the first days. Try, put on a mask, just try, just you know, just have fun and be yourself. That's the that's really the second tip. And then if you do have nerves and you're nervous or you're getting anxiety, which I think men have too, by the way, like everyone has, especially if you're dating intentionally, you're gonna have a different level of expectation. I know this is so silly, but just take 10 deep breaths, breathe, remind yourself like it's just a first date. If this is not my husband, if this is not my wife, if this is not whoever, it's okay. It's just a date. And that's why again, if you have a bad date, which hopefully you won't, but it can happen. Dating is dating, you can just laugh about it with your matchmaker, you can laugh about it with your girlfriends, but it's just a date, you know. So just calm yourself, whatever you have to do, take a walk, have a glass of water, have a glass of wine. Whatever. Before whatever. Not too much, only one. Just the one, yeah. I think two dates, uh two drinks is like a good first date rule. Just I don't think you should drink more than that on a first date.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I don't drink at all, so definitely, you know, I'm good, but girls who are drinking, just one glass enough.

SPEAKER_00:

So and also look, I mean, I hate to say this, but you have to look your best too. You have to be comfortable. So if you're trying to like show up the way that you normally wouldn't, like you're like really overdoing it or you're really underdressed, just try. You want to look your best to and feel confident. That's really important.

SPEAKER_01:

See, I wanted to talk about that. So, do you think when women put too much effort to look perfect? Yeah, they put too much pressure on themselves to keep up that look. And say when you start dating and being with somebody, they will never see you at your perfect. They may see you in the pajamas and your no makeup on. Do you think maybe some women should try a strategy to come at your worst? At your first day saying, hey, this is what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I don't think that. But I do think that you can look more natural. No, don't come at your worst. Please don't show up in like jeans and a t-shirt and flip-flops. You want to look good, but men actually prefer more natural. I don't care. I work with thousands of men. They, if you look too done up, like too much makeup, how you know, you just put a that's they want to see your natural beauty, they want to see who you are. So do that, but still put like some effort into your appearance for sure. Dress nice. I think you should just do that anyway. In LA, you have no problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Everybody is wearing like I mean try to change and shift the strategy. You know, something doesn't work. We need to experiment. One of my previous guests on the past episodes, um, Tara Um Kennis Tracy, yeah, uh really, really cool female comedian. She said she met her future husband at the bar. She didn't expect anything. She actually wasn't done at her best, she didn't have makeup on, and he came up to her. Yeah, you know, and which makes me actually bring me brings me to my next question. Do you think every guy has a type? So, say when you do online dating, the guy just swipes maybe like because they're bored or because they truly want to find somebody. Yeah, and they may swipe swipe accidentally on the woman they just think is attractive. Yeah, but in real life, if let's say you're in the bar, you will only come to the woman that is your type.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you think every guy has a type? Oh gosh. On the apps, I hate to say this. I've heard a lot of men do this and I've seen them do this. They just swipe on everyone and then just see. It's like the biggest net. And they just see who matches back. That's it. That's just they just try all some of them. As fast as possible. I'm not saying all, but I've heard it enough. Um, because men don't want to do work, and that's a lot of work to sit there and read the profile and like go through it. Okay. They didn't read your profile. They didn't. They just swiped and it's matched. And then and then they look through a little bit more. I'm not saying all men. Well, saying in general. Right. So online dating, it's hard to say, do you have a type online? Now, in real life, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I think men are. Which again brings me to my next point. Okay, so they you're your type, right? And you said men don't like to do too much work. So then does it mean when a man is really interested, he does have to put work, right? He wants to put work in. He wants to put work in. Oh, absolutely. They love the chase. He loves every challenge of the game.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. They love to put work in. Trust me, men love it. Give them a job, give them something to work for.

SPEAKER_01:

So what happens for women, if they do like the guy, do they have to play this game like Chase Me game?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, because the thing is, if you do give in too easily, yeah, you lose. If you wait too long, you play games, right? So what is the right thing? I know there's no right way, but with the right person, you don't have to play any games. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so just know that. Okay, it just comes back to the game. It's gonna naturally come, you're gonna know. But also, you shouldn't also just give and give and give and just assume that every person that you start dating, I'm just gonna, you know, no.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, don't give too much. Men like this is just how men are. They like to chase, they want to say, that's it, that's the kind of woman I want to date. Give me that challenge. Let me earn that. So don't be like, whatever day this week, I'm available every night. You know, if he texts you at four o'clock on a Tuesday and said, What are you doing tonight? You're busy. That's not a game. It's like, no, literally, it's four o'clock.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because you do have your own life, right? You do have activities outside of the relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

Say, hey, you know, I'd really love for you to make a plan for me later this week. Let me know when you're free and I'll see if that lines up. And then he will. Also, you can tell men what to do and they will do it, like in a nice way. Like, give them a little bit of a roadmap, but then they have to show up and do it.

SPEAKER_01:

So, how much initiative a woman should take in a guy she genuinely likes, let's say after first, second date?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it depends on the guy. I mean, men are different. Some men are really more proactive. Like him. Yeah, it's assertive. You know, if it's a nice guy who's a little bit more shy, a little bit more timid, and you can tell as a total sweetheart, it's okay to take a little initiative with that guy.

SPEAKER_01:

Really? Is that gonna put him off?

unknown:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

If it's a like again, I'm talking about, I don't want to give examples, but kind of like, you know, a nice engineer or like a nice, you know, guy who isn't really like you know what kind of guys I'm talking about. There's the kind of guy that can date anyone and he's dating all over. He needs to do the work. But another guy that's kind of a little bit more shy and maybe he's punching a little bit above his belt. It's okay to give him a little bit of help. You know, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's okay for a woman to call first and text first?

SPEAKER_00:

Again, depending on the guy. I wouldn't pick up the phone and call a guy first personally. But when you say first, if he's approached you somewhere out and about, he's probably gonna call you first. I wouldn't call him if I exchange numbers first. No, I think that a man should always do that. But after that, after that's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So let's say if you had a first date, yeah, how long should it take for a guy to text you back after the first date to let you know that okay, he's interested?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, if he really likes you, he's probably texting you that same night, very next day.

SPEAKER_01:

So if the guy didn't text you the same night or even the day after, yeah, it means he's not interested.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I mean he could be very busy, but I again I don't care. It takes what, like nine seconds to take a say say in a voice email, hi, I had a really great date with you. I'm really busy at work, but I'll check in with you later. Literally, how many seconds was that? Five seconds?

SPEAKER_01:

The thing is, I think it's so normal for women to find excuses, right? They they find excuses why because they put everything you know up front, they like the guys. So maybe women should be more cautious in saying, you know what, I'm giving you a chance, but I'm also taking a step step back for you to do a little bit more work. So then I know you invested in this relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

Do not chase, do not again, if he's a really nice, nerdy guy that doesn't have a lot of experience, just be like, I really like getting a phone call. I really like getting a text or a voice memo to check in during the day. And if he doesn't do that, all right, you told him what to do, but don't doesn't mean you do it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

So he still needs to be obviously in his masculine.

SPEAKER_00:

But you can give him a little bit of like what you like and how you like for a man to show up and how you like for a man to communicate. That's totally fine. And a lot of men need that, they don't know what to do anymore. Men are having a crisis.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like do you think men are kind of divided into very specific tribes, right? Yeah. The tribe who's like this labeled toxic masculinity, alpha, bad narcissist, whatever guy. Then you have super shy guys who've been beaten to death. They're so scared, they're scared to approach you because they're scared of sexual harassment, uh, lawsuit on them, things like that. And there's guys who like lost and don't know what they want themselves for their life, right? Where they're going career-wise, what do they want ambition-wise, right? They just kind of don't know anything about themselves, not about even thinking about a relationship and going forward.

SPEAKER_00:

There's, I always say, I I know this is like a theory that was on sex in this city, but it's like the cab light, the man, the cab light that's on. But I've always noticed that like when I've done an interview with men who they're telling me what they're looking for, they're like, oh, this is exactly what I want in a woman. And I'm like, that sounds exactly like the last woman you dated. I'm so confused. Didn't you say you just sit dated a woman who had all those qualities and she said it perfect? Why didn't you just end up with her? Oh, well, I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready then because I was still trying to make partner at my firm, or I was still trying to, you know, do XYZ goal because men are very different. Like, we as women, we can do everything all at once. We can work, we can play, we can have babies, we can buy a home, and look for the love of our lives and date men really like they'll date until they've reached whatever goal that in their mind they have set to hit, and then the cab light goes on the light.

SPEAKER_01:

At some point, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The thing is, at some point, listen, what do you believe about the expression men will never marry the love of their lives? Yeah, men always will marry whoever whenever they're ready.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I have to look at Marielle because Marielle married my co-founder, she married the love of her life, and he he did chase her, and like I think he he worked hard to to get her. So, and they've been married for what 20 years, 18 years? So, anyway, I'm trying to think of the yeah, 18 years. So I think that on they will there is some truth to that. Because sadly, I've seen it, but that doesn't mean that does not mean that that man, like you might meet someone amazing, and he will do all those things even if he's not ready if you're the right person for him. It's not every man, it's not.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I have a lot of men friends, right? They're they're friends and successful, handsome guys, and let's say one guy, right, that I know, he would say, I want to have to have kids, I want to have a family, right? He's ready right now. Yeah. So if any woman that matches approximately his you know um requirements, he will marry her. Yeah. Yet he could be with an amazing, beautiful, loving woman when he wasn't ready. Yeah, he would find so many excuses that he's not ready, or you know, he doesn't know what he wants to do with his life. It will never happen, right? For women is maybe different, right? Yeah. We are more sensual. We are always looking for the love of our lives, you know, every single day. Where is it?

SPEAKER_00:

It's true, but I I mean I've seen it happen both ways, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01:

So we I know we talked about your male clients. Let's talk for a few seconds about your female clients. And what I'm interested mostly in women who are successful, yeah, who are not just looking like for sugar daddies, right? Who are not looking just for somebody to take care of them, women who have their own ambitions, have their own businesses. Through your experience through the years, how do you think women's um requirements towards men change? Yeah. And what can you recommend and advise for this women to find the true match, still being who they are, not changing their personality or goals in life?

SPEAKER_00:

I think like for a while, um, maybe before COVID, um, it was a lot more difficult for women to date. It's a little bit easier now, believe it or not. I have just seen, I think in general, both men and women, but especially women, have been when I talk to them on the phone, they've learned to like lean more into their feminine energy again and try to be more soft and nurturing. And I think that's really helped them with dating and matchmaking.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, to be honest with you, I hate when they say lean towards your feminine energy. Okay, because what does it mean, right? Because nowadays when you're a single woman, yeah, you have no choice the way the society is formed right now. No, it's tough, right? Like we do not have special finances to help women to take care of their livelihood, right? They need to work to, you know, to provide for themselves. If they live by themselves, if if that shelf is broken, they need to fix it, right? Yeah, they need to take the trash can out. She has to go and take it out, right? So all these little things we kind of forced by the society or circumstances to do. It's like, so how do you lean? Well, I mean, how do you mean it's the thing?

SPEAKER_00:

Take away from like the financial stuff. Like you have to work, you have to have a job, you have to have your independence, you want to buy what you want to buy. Like, forget about that stuff. It's more about your energy when you're showing up dating. You don't have to be like, I'll split the check with you. Don't do that. Don't ever split the check.

SPEAKER_01:

Take your hand anywhere near the check. Okay, let me ask you. Sorry to interrupt, it's a very important topic. So we know that you do not split the check on the first date. Yeah. What about date five, six, seven, and eight?

SPEAKER_00:

If you're dating someone and again, I don't know how much money he makes, that's all dependent. I personally, this is just me, and I'm not saying this is right for everyone. I don't split the check. But ever. But again, why? Well, well, sometimes you know, I'll buy dessert or I'll get this or whatever because I'm giving more in other ways. So I think that as women, like we do give a lot to men. And when I say your feminine energy, I do mean your softness, your nurturing, your care, your support, your encouragement, your love, all of that stuff. They can't get anywhere else. You're giving it to them. And and I think that's very high value. So as a man, he's more wired to want to protect and provide. And providing is buying that drink you're or that dinner you're having. Like, it's really not that hard. So I think when I say lean into that, like you don't have to go into the date and say, Let me tell you all these amazing accomplishments I've had with my career and talk about your job the whole time. Maybe instead just have a good time, have fun, talk about your passions. Maybe you're interested in art or a certain book that you're reading, those kinds of things. If you have kids, talk about your children and what you know, that kind of stuff. That's what I mean by leaning into your feminine energy because what is a man not gonna get at work or with his buddies?

SPEAKER_01:

That plus don't forget men are the ones who are deciding what type of activities you take. So never take a woman to a place that you cannot afford, right? Yeah, you can be creative, you can find other ways to entertain or you know, to spend time with you know with your partner outside of taking them to the most you know expensive restaurant in town.

SPEAKER_00:

A picnic. I mean I'm in New York, so I'm like picnic in Central Park with a nice bottle of champagne, or just like you know, one of the the firefighters that I dated, I remember I was really busy at work and he brought me a picnic basket to the office and he made everything like these sandwiches, dessert. I was like, wow, this is really creative.

SPEAKER_01:

The effort also and attention that he put into you know wowing you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it worked.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I'm like, wow, this is really nice. This is a nice thing to do.

SPEAKER_01:

So um it's about digesture, right?

SPEAKER_00:

So feminine energy doesn't mean don't be independent, don't be strong, do all those things. That's for you anyway. Like you never want to rely on anyone for anything. I think as a woman, it's very important to have your own financial means, your own job, your own passions. And that stuff is what men are still looking for, like I said now. They want you to have that, but at the same time, on the date, try to be you know, just try to be in that energy as best.

SPEAKER_01:

I guess it's more for relaxed, right? Then you feel confident when you're a man and relaxed, so you can just lean back and just feel comfortable with your own.

SPEAKER_00:

And the right man's gonna make you feel that way. He's gonna make you feel comfortable and safe and calm. Calm, very important.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you're not gonna feel like anxious and stressed in the wrong place and the right wrong time with the wrong person.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And if you do, leave the date.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I love all these tips. You know, I hope our viewers and um uh our listeners enjoy this conversation. Obviously, I could have asked you a hundred more questions because it's very precedented. We can still talk later. For women and for women for men, so maybe we should have uh one day part two. But today on the basic show, we had Sandra Hayton from When We First. Check out her matchmaking agency and the app, by the way. Uh, where can uh people find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so the app is downloadable on Google and iOS, and then our website, which is just when we first.com.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Well, thank you uh for being on the basic show, and that's the rest of my career. Thank you. Bye.