WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
Join "amateur" historians Andrew and Liam (thrice bronze medalists in 'The South Yorkshire Rememberers Chalice') as every week they travel back in time like Nicholas Lyndhurst in Goodnight Sweetheart to remember things from the past.
Do you remember Woolworths? Do you remember when Marathons changed their name to Snickers? Do you remember Del Boy falling through the bar? If so then come and remember with us. If not then stick around and we will remember for you. You literally can't lose so why not hit the play button as hard as Paul Sykes hit that shark?
WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
Who Remembers........2-Tone Records?
Jerry Dammers likely never imagined that his small Coventry-based record label would spark a cultural revolution. Yet in just two years, 2-Tone Records transformed British music, fashion, and politics – creating a legacy that resonates decades later through its potent fusion of reggae, punk, and ska rhythms.
This episode uncovers the remarkable story of how 2-Tone united black and white musicians during Britain's most racially charged era. As the National Front reached its peak and urban violence simmered, bands like The Specials, Madness, The Beat, and The Selector crafted danceable anthems that directly confronted racism and social inequality. The movement wasn't just musical – it created an entire aesthetic with its distinctive black-and-white visual identity, sharp fashion sense, and multicultural ethos.
Whether you're a longtime fan or discovering this seminal British movement for the first time, join us as we celebrate the bands, songs, and vision that made 2-Tone one of music's most distinctive and influential sounds. Leave us your suggestions for future episodes, and join our conversations on Twitter and Blue Sky @whorememberspod.
Hello and welcome to the podcast who Remembers. In this episode we're asking who Remembers two-tone records.
Speaker 2:The very first draw in Britain's new national lottery. Sinclair believe they're C5, britain's first mass-produced electrical car.
Speaker 1:From something called the internet.
Speaker 2:Top sharking, but none of the locals got paddling. Yeah, that's for me. No bottleless kids. I can't speak. You can't win anything with kids. Heck, no One of the superstar video games in the business. Do you think it threatens the road really, before we can't get through again? Remember when it's the lowest level conversation? This is history. Remember when it's the lowest form of conversation? Hello, yeah, I don't know why I say it like that. I should have said it in a reggae accent. That's what we're going to be talking about. This is a request from the fantastic Real Bobby B Big supporter of the May of Life podcasts.
Speaker 1:So we thought he's asked us to do two songs. He's on the journey with us onto the new podcast. So cheers, bobby B, big supporter of the May of Late podcasts. So we thought he's asked us to do two-tone. He's on the journey with us onto the new podcast. So cheers, bobby B.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he absolutely has, and this is something that well toes on the table. If you knew, or whatever, we don't remember this happening because this was before we were born, but I did used to love 80s score as a kid, my dad got a Madness CD from a petrol. You remember petrol coupons in fact, Do you remember them? Were it.
Speaker 1:SL yeah, yeah, yeah, because you mentioned previously, didn't we? Yeah, only 24 toasters from Scunthorpe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was like an SL or Shell or something like that.
Speaker 2:I know. I remember my dad having some SL thing. He didn't know what to buy and he bought a Madness not CDs or a cassette Madness cassette and he played it. I absolutely loved it. I was only about 10 or 11 at the time.
Speaker 1:For any younger listeners. Yeah, before you could just play whatever you wanted on your phone at any time.
Speaker 2:You had to buy cassettes that had songs on them to play in a cassette player. I don't understand cassettes as a thing because they're a step down from vinyl, I don't. I mean, I presume they were easy to produce.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you can't have a vinyl in your car, can you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose.
Speaker 1:so yeah, and you couldn't carry around like a Walkman was a revelation. Imagine carrying around a big, massive gramophone with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've proven. Yeah, this is why you're the businessman of the combo and I'm not. But yeah, I really got into Scar off the back of Madness. Really I got into the specials and the beat and then back into original. So around this time my dad worked in a record store, still got loads of old Scar singles. Actually I might be self-indulgent and post them on the Twitter feed after this episode comes out. Actually, some two-tone records. I've actually got the original One Step Beyond by Prince Buster, which might be my most valuable record on Blue Beat Records, liam. So, although we weren't there at the time, I in particular was really, really into.
Speaker 1:Scar as a kid. You can still remember things after they happened. If they were shown again, you can still remember them. I think this is a flip on the last episode where I remember Dad's Army and you didn't. Yes, I don't. My knowledge of scar music is effectively, uh, ghost town. That is what I know of scar and I say it, yeah, and as we'll get to, actually because you've sent me some stuff, I you know, I can only apologize to any scar fans.
Speaker 2:I've misjudged the situation yeah, well, like, like I say, one of my first loves, um, they said so, two-tone records is what we're talking about, really, because that's what we were asked to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is for anyone who doesn't know. Sorry, because I wasn't sure what two-tone is. Is it a type of music? It's a record label, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is, but the term two-tone would also start to also become a genre in its own right, which a lot of bands who weren't even on two-tone would get classed as two-tone.
Speaker 1:Ah, right, okay.
Speaker 2:So Madness did release one single on two-tone but then they went to Stiff Records but they were still labelled as a two-tone band for much of their career, or Scar, revival or whatever it was. They were all sort of lumped into the same genre and two-tone.
Speaker 1:Sorry, just before you go into your memories of, maybe this is where you were going to go, so apologies if I've stopped you doing what you were going to do, but do you know much of that? How did Scar become a thing? Do you know how we got to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean Two Tone itself was founded by Jerry Dammers in 1979. He was the keyboardist of the Specials. But Two Tone sort of originated in Coventry in the late 70s and there were loads of bands coming out of the Midlands who were playing ska music. And what you're asking is the background. It sort of came from the 60s where the UK opened up immigration to Jamaicans. But given the harsh treatment of black people in Britain at the time, many of these immigrants found themselves unable to find high-paying jobs. So they were put in sort of old council estates, which means a lot of landlords wouldn't even rent to black families in fact. So these people grew up with working class white youths, you know, and it was a sort of I don't know about the first time, but it was black culture and white culture sort of coming together to create this sound, and reggae became massive on the back of this. But two-tone really was.
Speaker 1:So this was the lead-in to reggae. Then reggae kind of did reggae exist alongside?
Speaker 2:reggae existed, reggae, existed. Reggae were like absolutely huge in terms of um, so so reggae were like big in the you got desmond decker and all these sort of people who were really big in uh, getting number ones and things with israelites and all that. Yeah, of course, obviously bob marley were before this, but the difference is, the difference is with this, is this really big and uh, getting number ones and things? With israelites and all that yeah of course, obviously bob marley were before this, but the difference is the difference is with this.
Speaker 2:is this like 1979? It came just after punk and punk sort of what a lot of rec. There weren't that many punk records out when punk first started. So in the roxy where, which were in london uh, where like they're sort of seen as the home of punk, don let's use a who's a DJ and he used to play reggae records at punk nights and so the two became sort of interspersed.
Speaker 1:So it's not really surprised that Scar Well the punk scene was sort of there was a big Midlands scene in the punk music as well, wasn't there? So it probably overlapped in terms of the Midlands, surely?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it quickly spread. And the reason Scar became these Scar acts came out rather than reggae acts is because, well, for a Scar, scar's easier to play but Scar is sort of a mix. The Scar that the specials played is sort of a mix between punk and reggae, because it's like you know, but it's obviously more and it's politically charged, like punk was as well. So it also came about really because a lot of these bands were multicultural bands as well, like Specials and stuff. We'll get on to Madness soon. They're one of the few ones that weren't actually like a multicultural band. So all these people grew up listening to reggae music, listening to punk music, formed these ska bands and, like I said, the mastermind behind it were the specials Jerry Damers. He was the one who got the specials together and started the record label up as well.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Genuinely as well. I do find that interesting. I'm imagining do you know the Brent gif where he puts his hands together with punk and reggae? Yeah, that's what I'm picturing.
Speaker 2:Together and reggae like, yeah, that's what I'm picturing together. Um, so, yeah. So the first single issue by two tone was gangsters.
Speaker 1:I think I put that on my playlist for you, which immediately got into the top 10 not not one of my favorites on the list, but no, I think some of it as well was the, the order in which I listened to the tracks, because so I thought something you're going to come to well I've already mentioned it, which is Ghost Town In my head, ska kind of had to have that almost novelty record feel I thought, and obviously today I'm very wrong in that, but yeah, I thought it had to be a bit jokey and a bit silly and actually the songs, the playlist you sent me today, it's actually brilliant. I I'm.
Speaker 2:Some of the songs you've sent are really good, like I've listened to quite a few times I think like what's interesting with it is because it's like quite fun music because it comes from scar, obviously, or jamaican, like early scar, prince buster, for instance. Gangster principles were massive in like getting all these uh, influencing all these bands. So the prince, the song by madness, which was their first single, is about prince buster and obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that yeah and gangsters.
Speaker 2:That's um al capone, uh, like a riff of of uh prince buster song called al capone as well, um, so yeah, but because it's all this upbeat music, but yeah, you've got this like quite harsh political, especially with specials um, like this harsh sort of political. But what's really interesting is and I've never really I've watched a few documentaries about this and, like I say, I used to be really into all that Well, I still am, I still listen to it, just not quite as much as I used to it's weird how this sort of scene sort of started in the Midlands really, but in the Midlands really, but at the same time as the Specials were doing their thing, there were a band called Madness doing exactly the same thing, but completely independently from the Specials, playing exactly the same music, and it was just really hard. And Madness obviously got signed to Two Tone alongside bands, the Beat that you like Tears of a Clown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought that one really jumped out at me. Obviously, I know the original, but uh, yeah fantastic version and I don't know. It's just just a slightly different sound, much more melodic and there's even little bits of piano and like there's. It's just not at all what I was thinking like. I was just thinking wacky and zany and it's not. It's really really good music yeah, really, really good music.
Speaker 2:uh, the selelector were another big one, that's, if people don't know, on my Radio, on my Radio and Too Much Pressure.
Speaker 1:Which I've seen. Jules Holland does that live.
Speaker 2:With.
Speaker 1:Boogie Woogie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is really good. Body Snatchers were another one. And what's really interesting is this there was one episode of Top of the Pops in 1979, which featured three two-tone bands. That's mad.
Speaker 1:That's from a little independent record label and three bands out of the six featured or whatever it had been on top of the pops, three of them were they all sort of quite high in the charts in that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah. So you'd add um, I don't. I, to be honest, I don't know the songs, but I imagine that it'll be. They've all been pretty much top 10, I think. Think. On my radio I got to the top 10. You'd have had Gangsters, I would have thought. I can't remember, I don't know what songs I don't really want to guess. But the first number one for Two Town was in 1980, which is You've done too much, much too young. Which would like I've got that actually on vinyl.
Speaker 1:Which is another one I think to be fair, which is a little bit more sort of that novelty feel to it. It's a little bit bouncy, like some of the.
Speaker 2:Some of the pronunciation of words is is incredible, to be honest yeah, well, this is the thing as well, because you asked me, didn't you be off stage? Uh, behind the curtain you said, like are some of these people actually jamaican, like as the way they sing? And they are, you know. You know, obviously, like I say, we're a multicultural band, so when you get it's the same old show, that is a Jamaican man, say that's not someone putting on a Jamaican accent, like I've just done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was you though, weren't it? That's not a Jamaican man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was it. Yeah, so it got, because before I don't like to say I'm not an expert on music or anything, but so someone can correct me, I can't think of any many other genres before this that included black and white people singing in in the same band. I mean a black style of music really, I suppose you could say was disco well, now, disco were like a little bit before this, but that were again. That were mostly like black artists, weren't it she's?
Speaker 2:so yeah, and the dudes, um, but yeah. But another thing that you have to talk about with two-tone is the fashion. So jerry dammer's developed the, the what's called the walt jabsco logo. Have you seen this logo? It's on all the records. You know the, the guy in the? Uh, it's like wearing a white socks black what's it called? Walt, walt jabs go yeah, you'll, you'll. Once you put it in, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:I think and that's the blueprint of the two-tone fashion like a cool character, but also people wore harrington jackets, braces that were a massive thing braces and dot martin boots, and they're all connected with the scene as well, and everyone at the the early stage of it had a skinhead as well, which were influenced by the trojan skinheads of the 60s, which was named after the trojan record label that distributed old reggae and scar stuff they were sort of seen as quite well in my mind anyway as well quite quite sort of tough characters, weren't they like with it Not necessarily trouble, but not to be messed around with, were they?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because, like I said, gerry Damis said that he wanted the specials to be a skinhead band in. What he says now is a naive way to attract racist skinheads to listen to their message, which is obviously all about the issue. Well, a lot of it was about the issues black people were facing at the time and you can't really do talk about 2Town without the politics of that era, because there were an unbelievable amount of racists. It was the peak of the National Front, you know the white skinheads committing violence against minorities. But the National Front or white skinheads, the racist white skinheads would attend a lot of school bands gigs.
Speaker 1:Irony at work again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thinking these are one of us. They've all got skinheads, especially Madness, because, as I said, madness were one of us. They've all got skinheads, especially Madness, because, as I said, madness were one of the few bands that didn't have a black member in the team.
Speaker 1:Were Madness's themes, that sort of multicultural, inclusive. Let's all get together and have a bit of a dance. Was that Madness, or was Madness less political?
Speaker 2:Less political, I'd say. There was a song called Embarrassment that they did, which is about it's a white person having a kid with a black person is the story, and it's about the mum saying I'm embarrassed of you. So they sort of dabbled in it, but they were not as overtly.
Speaker 1:But then they also did stuff about our house, which was about a house, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that were about a house, and Baggy Trousers which were about Baggy Trousers. I always find that really funny, by the way, baggy Trousers. Really funny, by the way, baggy trousers. Because it obviously now baggy trousers is, it's sort of like a staple. Imagine saying what's your new song called baggy trousers? Think about that for a title yes, I don't quite.
Speaker 1:I don't know the lyrics enough other than baggy trousers over and over again well, it's about school, isn't it?
Speaker 2:so they say like at school you used to wear baggy trousers. It's just a ridiculous like. I don't anyway. But so a lot of skinheads are coming to these scar gigs and cause violence because what the black say, that they saw the bands had skinheads and missed the rest of it. But these were worse at madness gigs than the others, which I like I say I presume is because they didn't have any black members. They attracted a massive right wing sort of like proper far right wing audience audience madness in the early days. And there was one particular incident because it's got it here, November 18th 1979, where Madness was supported by an artist called Red Beans and Rice who was black or the lead singer was black, should I say and his band were prevented from completing the performance due to racist chants. Suggs had to come on stage and show his displeasure and he was just greeted by Nazi salutes in the audience. Yeah, Imagine Suggs coming out and having a go. I can't imagine Suggs having a go at anyone, to be honest.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean, that's yeah, obviously, but it's ridiculous, isn't it? I don't know, Different time, but but it's ridiculous that you're loving this sort of style of music different time, but what's ridiculous that you kind of you're loving this sort of style of music and, yeah, there's black music.
Speaker 2:You're not going to watch this guy do it. It's, it's absolutely. My dad used to. As you know, he used to go to loads of northern soul nights, um, and I say youth they're about our age, to be honest but um, and he said, like he couldn't, they were there, like he'd go and dance with these like black music and stuff, and black people on stage and and they'd be racist there, like just like go, look at him and and I just I don't know how you, I guess I don't know how you like sort of do it, I don't know you well you square it, I suppose, is how you, oh yeah yeah, I just don't know ridiculous.
Speaker 2:But you can't talk about suicide, say, without the political climate. And, as you say, the most famous song by far in two-tone history history is the one that you knew, which is Ghost Town, where it spent three weeks at number one.
Speaker 1:I'm guessing, though correct me if I'm wrong. I would imagine, from the few songs I've heard since, I would imagine a Specials fan probably wouldn't love that song.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean, jerry Downs was really really talented as a songwriter. He tried to move away from Scar by the second album. He kept wanting to evolve and that's why it sort of faded as quick as it did really, because he didn't want to be stuck into that one scene. And I don't think Ghost Town sounds anything like a Scar song really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's probably where I've got it so wrong. I've associated that sound with a type of music that it isn't. I mean, by the way, it's not that I think that's a terrible song. I think it's fine, but it just strikes me as playing at a kid's party on Halloween rather than actually listening to it as a great piece of music.
Speaker 2:I think this is a weird record to be a number one and to be as big as it is. I don't think it gets enough credit for being so different to probably any number one in history, I would think because it's really creepy, as you said, like an Halloween thing, but it's fairly upbeat at the same time. But the lyrics are all about violence and racism and police harassment and stuff.
Speaker 1:It's got that really sort of like almost bluesy backing as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's got that creepy organ and obviously it's most famous for being on Father Ted Brilliant scene, where on Father Ted there's a DJ but he's only got one record, and it's Ghost Town. There's a bit where they go right now all raise for the Irish national anthem. But it's a fascinating song though, because whether you like it or not, like you say, it's almost like a nursery rhyme, but the lyrics and all the ghostly sounds just make it mad, and it became a soundtrack to the 1981 riots that happened throughout UK. I remember I said this before we were born, but I watched a documentary on this. It was a really, really bad time. Three-day weeks had just come off and Fats were just taking over and all that sort of stuff. Not sure if there's ever been a number one that summed up the mood of a nation as well as that. Maybe Three Lions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of another one I can't actually A song that were number one. That summed up the mood of a nation of the time. Vindaloo didn't get to number one, but we were all eating Vindaloo's, weren't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Mike Flowers get to number one. You quite like that didn't you?
Speaker 2:I don't know if that summed up Wonderwall, summed up the.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think it summed up your world at that time, though, didn't it?
Speaker 2:You're my Wonderwall Boom, so Ghost Town were number one 1981, but almost immediately after that, two Tone effectively came to an end. The label missed out on signing UB40 and Dexys Midnight Runners, which would obviously have been, you know, kept them going in terms of chart success, which is weird because See.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have grouped them together, but no, they're not scarred.
Speaker 2:Neither of them are scarred. Ub40, obviously reggae. Dexys this is Midnight Runner's soul, but they did have the chance to sign him. Maybe that's why they didn't sign him, to be fair, and the Likes of Madness and the B got poached. They were like the two bigger bands on it by bigger record labels. Three members of the specials left, including Terry Hall Bleeding another one of Webding's lookalikes, terry Hall, and they formed Funboy 3, who went on to have some massive hits. I sent you a couple on that playlist. Actually they had a one banana armor. Um, ain't what you do. It's the way that you do it, not what you do. It's the thing that you do it. I don't, I don't know lyrics. It's the way that you do it.
Speaker 2:That's what that's what I thought that's what get results I thought that's what turns me on, but that's what turns me on did it well, I might have to do banana rom, because they've got some genuinely good songs, but their best song I'll put it on the playlist for you is Our Lips Are Sealed, which is an unbelievable song.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good, really good, really really good song. But their specials did carry on and they did do a third album where even though it was basically just a Jerry Dammer's solo album with guests on it, but they did have a massive hit from it- which it might be the second, second most popular song, would you say in free, nelson mandela, yeah, which I?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've ever listened to that as a song. You know, I'm obviously aware of it. I know people sort of sing that chorus and I don't know. Well, I listened to it today and it almost reminded me a little bit of you know, like some girls are bigger than others by the smiths, where I think well, you think it's a good lyric, and sorry, a good music.
Speaker 2:A music, but the lyric A great melody yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know I'm not questioning the sort of politics of wanting to free Nelson Mandela, that's. I don't know enough about that. But I'm just saying it feels like that could be a very, very different, much more remembered song if it wasn't so tied to politics.
Speaker 2:Well, he's so dated now, isn't he? Because he's dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was freed and then he died.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then he died, but this was a massive song at the time because obviously this was the time where I mean, like you say, people obviously were recording this a week after Glastonbury, probably a month after Glastonbury or whatever. But obviously all this talk about fucking get music out of politics and all this sort of stuff, or politics out of music, this was fucking all good. And then people have. You know, I actually did see a tweet where someone said, yeah, you didn't see bands like the Jam or the Special singing about politics, like they had a song called fucking Free Nelson Mandela, do you?
Speaker 1:know what I mean, Like you can't get more. Well, he doesn't sing about much else, does he? Who's the Cockney guy? Weller, no, oh, billy Bragg. Yeah, surprise, I pay for loving you the way that I do. Yeah, you're not into his politics.
Speaker 2:Songs are you?
Speaker 1:I like when he stays away from politics.
Speaker 2:Oh, I pay. When I first lent you his album, you said do you ever get past his voice? Yeah, Because he has obviously got that. He were a former. He were in Army, weren't he? I mean, Blunty Boy. They were teamed up to do a.
Speaker 1:Who.
Speaker 2:James Blunt, james Blunt and Billy Bragg. Billy Bragg were in Army as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, obviously they didn't serve together. Did they team up?
Speaker 2:No, obviously not, but they could team up and do a song about the Army. This is the price I pay for being in the British Army and the Army. That was blunt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1:It was good.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Pauline Black of the Selector said Two-Tone was just a two-year blip between the end of the punk era and the start of the new romantics. But most people said that's just not doing it enough service, Because it wasn't. I mean, I say it were a phenomenon when we said we're doing two-tone and he was like I don't know what that is. I imagine everyone knows the songs are two-tone. Two-tone itself might not necessarily count as a genre, but with that Scar revival thing, but I think it's remembered so fondly by fans of it.
Speaker 1:I know people absolutely love that era because it ended so quickly. It didn't sort of fizzle out in something else, did it.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, like I say it didn't fizzle out, it just sort of went bang. See you later. Bang, obviously. Madness carried on until like 86, but they moved massively away from Scarlet. It's our house in a Scar song and House of Fun is in a Scar song. That's just a pop song.
Speaker 1:What's their best song? What's?
Speaker 2:their best song.
Speaker 1:It's like a ballad. They don't do many ballads.
Speaker 2:You know what it's not about? It Must Be Love, are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a cover song, though, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Soon as I wake up. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, la Vecifera, it must be. Love, love, love. It's quite quicker than the.
Speaker 1:Madness version.
Speaker 2:Based on your version. I prefer madness. One better day is a brilliant madness song, which is a ballad, uh, towards the end of their career, um. But other things like like I say we weren't there so we can't say, oh, remember this, when this happened, we did. We're blowing away some stuff, but the fact that they're doing documentaries still do documentaries. I think there's even a film about it.
Speaker 1:That just the special still has a massive fan base. You always have comments over here people talking about specials or like madness, are still selling out arenas and stuff yeah, but I think madness, by staying around for so long, have fizzled out, whereas I don't know, the specials seem to me to be much more like. That was a moment. Madness has just been around for ages, I don't know. The specials seemed to me to be much more like. Oh yeah, that was a moment. I didn't remember that Madness has just been around for ages.
Speaker 2:It's interesting when specials reformed, actually, and they didn't have Jerry Dammers in the band and I saw him at this period and I don't know it did feel a bit because he was the star, he started it, he started two-tone, he was the main songwriter and they didn't. Well, there's different versions. He said they never asked him to join and stuff, and now Terry Hall's passed away. That's pretty much it, you know, for the specials, and there's only the beat is still going. I think Selector is still going, in fact as well, but they were the biggest ones at the time.
Speaker 1:It does strike me as well. There may well be a specials cover band listening, listening. Who want to correct me on this? There probably isn't, but they don't strike me as a band, a band that you'd want to go and see a cover version of them no, possibly not.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, we're gonna do it. The smiths.
Speaker 1:We've seen a good cover band in the smiths what were they called? The other smiths, the other smiths.
Speaker 2:I've seen them twice, but and I don't mind, I may. Jumped on stage, didn't like, started hugging him like it was the actual Morrison.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's weird for a cover band, that wasn't it yeah. But I don't know. I just can't imagine that the people who love the specials seem so keen on the specials. I'm not sure they'd go and see a cover band in the specials. Maybe completely wrong there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I say, working Men's Clothes. I think we're going to do an episode on that soon. I remember loads because I used to go when I was really young and they used to have loads of ska bands on then, you know like just doing different ska hits like Bad Manners and all that Lip-up, fatty, fatty Reggae and all that sort of stuff. But, like I say, this was like a two-year period really, but it was big. They didn't just do Scar music too, so I should say they also produced singles by Elvis Costello the great Elvis Costello and do you know who the Higgson's are?
Speaker 1:No, I know of Charlie Higgson. Yeah, it's him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before Fast Show he was like the lead singer of the Hicksons, who were like a funk band. You can see, I think he got on top of the Pops in fact.
Speaker 1:But for a long time now I still thought you were just going to say no, I'm only joking, there was something else?
Speaker 2:No, that is true. That is true. The Hicksons. I don't know why they were called the Hicksons. Give me a minute, I'm going to do some live research in here. I don't know why they were called the Hicksons.
Speaker 1:Probably because his second name's Hickson, I would think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there were six in the band.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there might be two brothers or something that started it, or it might just be that.
Speaker 2:He was the lead singer and he's an egomaniac. Yeah, yeah, I think, if we started a band.
Speaker 1:You'd be happy to call it the Higginsons.
Speaker 2:I would actually. Yeah, that'd be amazing, wouldn't it? The Higginsons. And before we sort of wrap up in a way, I love.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that doesn't make sense to people who've not followed us from Madeley either, by the way. So your surname is not Higginson, it's Hague, but because I think you look like Jim Davidson you don't so much anymore, but you used to I've always called you Jim Higginson.
Speaker 2:People because I've lost my hair. People, I couldn't be scared of that actually, can I you look much here now, but it doesn't make any sense, does it?
Speaker 1:Because it's Davidson and I call you Higginson, but I don't know how it's kind of made sense at.
Speaker 2:Haiginson on the run was what I got called in it. After once I shaved my head davidson on the run, even not haiginson on the run. Um, yeah, I love the. I mean there's loads of names that sort of they call themselves or they get labeled out. You know scar people, two tones and skinheads. I love rude boys. That's such an amazing Rude Boy subculture which originated from Jamaica. I'd love to be referred to as a rude boy.
Speaker 1:I've said that. In anger at a group of kids who shout to me, I said shut the fuck up, you rude boys.
Speaker 2:Rude Boy. It's such a good, I don't know. Obviously that came before Two-Tone Records.
Speaker 1:I do like the term Rude Boy yeah.
Speaker 2:Rude boy, Obviously one of the big sounds.
Speaker 1:I think I'd love to be called rude boy.
Speaker 2:Rude boy. I met Russ. I used to call him rude boy, but he never really took off. But yeah, obviously Message to you, rude. That was another cover song. That was another big two-tone hit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to give own hit. Yeah, I like. So I'm gonna give you a thing here. And what, what's your, what's your favorite madness song? Then it must be love yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know how they must have done hundreds of songs been around for so long. I only know their hits. I don't. I've never owned a madness album, so yeah of the sort of hits they've done. I would say, yeah, it must be love, because I think that's a genuinely really good song, though I didn't know it was a cover though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, I didn't realise, to be honest, until, like I said, we weren't here. I didn't realise just how big the specials were when they first came out. So, the first what? One, two, three, four, five, six. The first six singles seven, seven, sorry, yeah, the first seven singles got in the top ten. Wow, which is incredible, erm. So I don't know how many of these you know, but, like message to you, rat Race er working for the rat race. You know you're wasting my time.
Speaker 1:Brilliant song er Rude Boys Out of Jail? I don't know it, but I quite like that version you've just done although it makes me think of er Card Up In the Rat Race, although it makes me think of uh card up in the rat race which I really don't like as a lyric.
Speaker 2:Uh, there's a bass album called rude boys out of jail. Uh, there's a brilliant song by a special called arranged marriage, which is really funny. But, yeah, there's a song I want to mention before we go, uh, which is a song by the special aka, which is called the boiler. I didn't put this on this playlist here, to be fair. It's one of the most horrific songs that I have ever heard and I can't really do it justice. I don't it's about a woman being raped, but it's by Rhoda, who, yeah, who sort of sang on the final special AKA album she was releasing at Body Snatchers One of the most, if I had to do, 100 songs you must hear before you die. Not in terms of, like, what's the best, listen to that song, it's absolutely. It's incredibly well done, but it's proper haunting.
Speaker 1:I can't believe that, like you put it on your top 100 songs, you must listen to and you sent me put it on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why I didn't put it on. I suppose I didn't want to give you the wrong impression. It's got like a ska background, but it's a really, really, really, really dark song and everyone should listen to it.
Speaker 1:So thanks for that so for anyone wondering again, we used to do a podcast living with May later still loads and loads of episodes out there you can go and find more TV based, but we did used to play clips on that. If anyone's wondering or disappointed that we're not playing clips, we are now putting these videos well, these podcasts as a video onto YouTube.
Speaker 2:And I read you can easily get taken down basically on Spotify these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you've got a bunch of other stuff, you've got to be really careful. It makes the editing much easier. It makes it much easier to turn the episodes around. So, yeah, apologies if you're missing the clips and you know there is a reason for that.
Speaker 2:But if you check out Twitter in particular and Blue Sky as well, and we're going to try and get different platforms a lot of the things that we talk about I'm going to try and upload so people know what we're on about.
Speaker 1:Come and join the community.
Speaker 2:Get on board, come and join the community. And yeah, the next episode we're doing, actually I'm not going to announce what it is. Well, I keep saying we're not going to announce this.
Speaker 1:Oh, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you leave your reviews. If you leave us a suggestion for an episode and we'll do it, and that's what we're doing. Next, someone's left us a lovely review on Apple. I mean, they're all tongue-in-cheek, I'm not going to lie, but you know we appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Oh, we've talked about the one-star thing, by the way. So who remembers things? The irony in that is that we don't always remember things, so we kind of embrace the fact they get it, I know.
Speaker 2:I know they get it. They get it. Yeah, so if you leave us a review and lob whatever you want to hear as an episode, but I really like doing two-tone because, again, it's 40 minutes. You can't really cover everything in 40 minutes, but that's a general overview of a scene that I really really like.
Speaker 1:I, that's a general overview of a scene that I really really like, I think what we'll do as well is we'll try and get through all the suggestions, but some of them might become part of another episode, so a bit like we got asked to do, captain Birdseye. Yeah, and that became Ronald McDonald yeah so it became something else, so we didn't do it at all. But we did mention Birdseye but yeah, yeah, yeah and yeah, so you're not announcing it. Then Are we keeping it quiet?
Speaker 2:Ah, fuck it, we'll say it and then we'll just edit it out if we don't do it. But next up I tell you what. I can't actually tell you who put this on, but I will for the next episode, because I can't get the name of the guy who asked. But on Apple Music he asked for Sylvester Stallone versus Arnold Schwarzenegger, the beef. I didn't realise they were a beef, but there is a beef.
Speaker 1:They're a beef, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're going to do that next, which seems like the next logical step on from Two-Tone.
Speaker 1:But yeah, thanks to Bobby B for that because, like I say, I really, really love all that music. Well, to be fair, that might have got me into some new music, which is always a good thing. I think Deadback's going to be stopping and swearing at his phone, or whatever he does, when I don't know anything about music. He's furious with me. He's quite quiet on his science and nature, so if he wants to take me on on that world, I'm more than happy to do that, yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 2:By the way, I wasn't that much into Madness at the time. By the way, I'm ashamed to admit that I bought Suggs a, a solo album, which is fucking so bad. It's unbelievable. I love sugs, but his solo album is absolutely still going yeah, he came out as an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:That's not. That's not like his claim to fame, that's not. That's not what he's just been up to. Came out, I saw it like about a couple of months ago. Came out as an alcoholic. Um, yeah, it's still a madness. So they're still touring, aren'tness? They're still releasing records and stuff critically acclaimed records. I've seen them about five times and I've had enough. Now, if you get what I mean, when you've seen a band that too many times, you're like, yeah, I've done it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I only got to see the specials well, that was good.
Speaker 1:It was genuinely a bit of a musical education for me, in a good way. So I will listen to more Scar music and I know much more about it. So thank you for the education well, that's Rolf.
Speaker 2:I was trying to do like a Scar beat to end, but it sounded more like.
Speaker 1:Rolf Harris. Can you guess what it is?
Speaker 2:yes, anyway, that was Scar. We'll see you for Schwarzenegger vs Sloane. We'll be back. Thank you for listening to who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at whorememberspod, at outlookcom. If you are a right wing fascist, you can find us on twitter, at whorememberspod, or if you're a woken up, you can find us on blue sky at who remembers pod. Once again, thank you for listening and we'll see you next time for more remembering.